IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-24
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01:40:09 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14150 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Add: Add the count of trains using the current waypoint in the vehicle list window's caption
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02:06:36 <glx> Ammler: no, same as other lists
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07:10:04 * peter1138 ponders adding custom fences.
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07:58:38 <Rubidium> peter1138: starts to sound like newcustomanything than anything else ;)
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08:37:06 <peter1138> Rubidium, I could go the whole hog and implement custom signals too ;)
08:37:20 <peter1138> TTDPatch's newsignals is a disaster.
08:38:14 <Rubidium> better finish the rail'n'roadtypes first
08:38:33 <peter1138> Signals would be part of rail types :p
08:41:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14151 /trunk/src/ (gfxinit.cpp gfxinit.h openttd.cpp table/files.h): -Codechange: make it possible to choose between the DOS and Windows graphics packs while retaining the possibility to override the palette.
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09:01:26 <planetmaker> compilation is broken of r14151 on mac 10.4
09:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a QD framework?
09:05:23 <planetmaker> whatever... dunno. Probably some standard graphics framework for Mac.
09:06:02 <planetmaker> I got only those things installed which I needed to compile OTTD
09:08:21 <planetmaker> it worked with the very same system and r14127
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09:20:51 <planetmaker> shall I post it to flyspray?
09:28:47 <planetmaker> well... yes, I know :S
09:29:07 <planetmaker> But I not overly creative right now. Just waking up :)
09:29:35 <planetmaker> but running a simple search and replace on a diff might be easier than the same on 3 files :)
09:30:10 <planetmaker> maybe t_Palette ?
09:30:45 <frosch123> ColourPalette, GrfPalette, ...
09:31:42 <planetmaker> you're the boss - you choose :)
09:36:18 <planetmaker> attached diff with PaletteType to flyspray
09:37:06 <planetmaker> btw, it also fails on another persons Mac with the same error, so it shouldn't be me having some weired stuff installed :)
09:40:33 <Rubidium> who cares about apple's hardware when apple can't be bothered with developers?
09:41:05 <frosch123> yeah, planetmaker should send a patch to apple that renames their 'Palette' :p
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09:41:08 <planetmaker> well... I couldn't play currently without - so I guess I care :)
09:41:34 <extspotter> brianetta's server is wierd
09:41:45 <extspotter> you can't build any transport things lol
09:42:04 <davis-> yeah i was wondering why the 2 companies didnt do anything by now
09:42:39 <planetmaker> frosch123: good idea :)
09:42:56 <extspotter> I am gonna bankrupt my company and start again
09:44:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: such a simple patch and still messing it up ;)
09:44:53 <Rubidium> (just look at the diff and you should be able to see it)
09:45:40 <planetmaker> one byte too much :P
09:46:27 <planetmaker> note to self: Type is longer than s - check subsequent comments :)
09:47:22 <peter1138> Well... that hurts a bit.
09:48:34 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14152 /trunk/src/ (gfx_func.h gfx_type.h gfxinit.cpp): -Fix (r14146): Apple decided to use a name I wanted to use... thus making compilation fail on OSX (planetmaker)
09:48:42 <planetmaker> four byte actually...
09:48:57 <planetmaker> :) Thx Rubidium :)
09:50:00 <Forked> too..early.. good night again
09:50:30 * planetmaker ponders to have lunch now or in an hour
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09:51:56 <peter1138> Mmm, finger burn :o
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10:05:13 <yorick> I don't think a client should be able to connect to a nondedicated server while it is in the title screen...
10:06:16 <yorick> I'll get you a screenshot
10:06:32 <peter1138> Right middle finger.
10:09:51 <yorick> I started a nondedicated server, loaded a game made in a newer version, and got this
10:10:24 <yorick> and yes, it is actually connected
10:11:57 <SpComb> is it connected to the title-screen game?
10:13:38 <yorick> and it is connected to the title-screen game :)
10:14:11 <hylje> has anyone considered using different title screens for each release, and maybe holding title screen competitions for the next title?
10:14:56 <yorick> spcomb: I can actually connect to it, when paused
10:16:21 <SpComb> hylje: I like this concept of a multiplayer title screen even more
10:17:11 <yorick> SpComb: well it desyncs instantly when unpaused...
10:17:13 <Eddi|zuHause> we need newgrf support in the title game... afaik that got horribly broken since the town name support...
10:17:33 <hylje> upgrade the game to be able to have hundred-user servers, actually run a title screen server somewhere and make clients try joining it when the game starts
10:18:11 <hylje> now what actual stuff that title screen server could do..
10:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: reason for desyncing is probably that the title game is so old that it does not transmit the proper newgrf configuration. try it when the server has no newgrfs
10:18:49 <yorick> but when I start a server while in a title screen multiplayer game...the clients all go there :)
10:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or other game settings
10:19:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a lot of things are disabled in 'title game mode', i.e. date is not incremented, so no daily/monthly loops etc...
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10:35:07 <peter1138> Hmm, waypoints and depots.
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10:59:24 <yorick> what is with waypoints, depots and bridges?
11:05:00 <peter1138> On a scale of one to AWESOME!
11:14:42 <yorick> SPComb: I can't reach Martilla.de
11:21:10 <SpComb> sweet, it did that thing again
11:23:30 <SpComb> great, I should be able to get a post-mortem this time
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11:27:02 <yorick> I was looking for SpBot source
11:35:22 <yorick> SpComb: spbot.martilla is still down?
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11:36:52 <Brianetta> openttd is so boring without newgrfs.
11:37:18 <Brianetta> No wagon speed limits. No nice stations. No tender engines.
11:38:26 <peter1138> Hmm, which header is size_t defined in...
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11:48:23 <yorick> SpComb: could you point me to the spbot source?
11:48:32 <SpComb> yorick: marttila should be back up now
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11:49:26 <SpComb> debugging apache configs is hard
11:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i just crashed kdesvn by telling it to update to head...
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12:21:28 <Tekky> I.e., when you click on "forum" on the OpenTTD web page, you are now directed to the main tt-forums page instead of to the OpenTTD forums.
12:21:44 <Tekky> It used to be different a few months ago.....
13:08:37 <fjb> The new paxdest thing is fun.
13:08:47 <fjb> Or better cargo destinations.
13:09:49 <Tekky> yes, I am currently playing it, too.
13:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more fun with less cargo
13:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently playing with daylength 8 and industry production divided by 8
13:10:55 <fjb> I just started a game with some airships.
13:10:57 <SpComb> I got some conflicts when I tried applying the daylength patch against trunk
13:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, the industry production callback is called only every 8th time
13:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: the last daylength patch i had was before the settings rewrite
13:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i had to replace every occurance of _patches
13:12:08 <Tekky> unfortunately the cargodest wiki states the following: Symmetric cargo generation (Passengers and Mail), i.e. the same amount of passengers go from A to B as vice versa. This requires a rewrite of the cargo generation system and is currently not within the scope of the project. It's big enough as it is
13:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> to something like _settings_game.economy
13:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and put the patch settings in the right place
13:12:38 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: do you have a working diff or such for it? :/
13:12:47 * SpComb wished everyone used mercurial
13:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm not sure
13:13:24 <rortom> is the daylenght patch integrated?! o_O
13:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i have a diff of my working copy changes, but it's a little messed up
13:14:34 <Tekky> Eddi: Yes, I think the amounts of cargo generated is often too high, if you want to use buses a lot.
13:14:54 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: you mean an svn diff?
13:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> wait a moment, i'll clean this up a bit
13:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: yes, as the chemical element
13:15:53 <SpComb> ideally it would probably be some kind of branch that one could pull from
13:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> don't make me learn how to do that :p
13:18:50 <SpComb> I wish I knew how it worked
13:26:22 <Tekky> is there a particular reason why daylength has not made it into trunk, despite it being so popular? Does it cause desyncs in multiplayer?
13:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not clearly defined what it should do
13:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar wanted to add similar functionality in the gamebalance branch
13:28:37 <yorick> "daylenght affects cargo pricing" is wrong if it goes in trunk
13:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... why does openSUSE not provide a gcc42 package?!?
13:29:49 <Tekky> Which Linux distribution do most of you use?
13:31:42 * Rubidium uses Debian, but I reckon a Debian derivate is the most used one
13:33:24 <Tekky> rortom: "currently"? Are you implying that you don't want to stay with Ubuntu?
13:37:29 * Rubidium dislikes Gentoo because they don't fullfil the "bleeding edge packages" ideology that everybody associates with Gentoo
13:37:51 <Rubidium> or it's because Gentoo redefined bleeding edge
13:38:34 <peter1138> I dislike Gentoo as the only thing I want to compile is OpenTTD ;)
13:39:09 <Rubidium> which you can't out-of-the-box on Gentoo via portage...
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13:46:43 <rortom> mh, simply add ottd to portage :)
13:47:49 <fonso> about as simple as building a debian package
13:48:20 <fonso> and about as impractical when the source is constantly changing
13:50:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14153 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split ini file reading/saving from settings.cpp.
13:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf are those busses?!?
13:59:49 <rortom> Rubidium: why is it so complicated?
14:00:06 <rortom> ./configure && make for me under gentoo? :\
14:00:49 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: eGRFVTS, I guess...
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14:04:08 <Rubidium> rortom: that doesn't add it to portage
14:05:17 <rortom> Rubidium: i will see how i can help you
14:06:36 <Rubidium> rortom: if you would've read the bugreport I've linked to they are totally not interested in updating portage
14:06:59 <rortom> Rubidium: thats what im going to ask them :)
14:08:34 <Rubidium> why do you think they listen to you?
14:08:58 <rortom> i will just ask friendly :)
14:09:07 <Rubidium> there are patches that they need to apply and presto, they're done
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14:09:28 <Rubidium> now they are making a big fuss of a bug in 0.6.2 and masking openttd because they can't be bothered
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14:12:40 <rortom> Rubidium: i will see what they are aboutt
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14:17:08 <rortom> they have quite a point in masking it ..
14:17:18 <rortom> so why not fix, release a bugfix release
14:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that IS already fixed
14:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the fix is in 0.6.2
14:22:08 <Rubidium> rortom: the "fix" for Gentoo is updating to 0.6.2, for which there's a patch, but instead they mask it leaving people with unsafe OpenTTDs
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14:25:35 <rortom> Rubidium: you want to join #gentoo-games? :)
14:26:07 <Rubidium> not to mention that secunia hasn't looked at the issue at all, because if they would've done that they would've known that you can't pass arbitrary data at the location of the 'exploit'
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14:26:43 <rortom> Rubidium: thats the best testers :p
14:26:45 <Rubidium> and they haven't found the real important (separate) issue where you could pass arbitrary data
14:28:17 <Rubidium> and no, I'm not going to join #gentoo-games
14:28:28 <Ammler> isn't it "unlocical" to use Gentoo with prebuilds, isn't that the distro, where you compile everything self?
14:28:58 <Digitalfox> openttd_vs90.vcproj is for VS 2005 or 2008?
14:29:31 <rortom> Ammler: they dont use prebuilts?
14:29:55 <Digitalfox> thanks Rubidium :)
14:30:14 * Rubidium envisions Gentoo's live CD
14:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll start with a mini-gcc in the MBR, instead of grub :p
14:35:55 <Rubidium> that builds a full kernel and wget, then wget gets the new kernel which it rebuilds and reloads, then binutils/make/etc are downloaded, bootstrapped and compiled and then the rest (including X)
14:36:16 <Rubidium> when you then doubleclick on the firefox icon it downloads the source and compiles that, then it starts running it
14:38:32 <fjb> ... and the Linux people are always talking bad about BSD because there are four flavours of it, always pointing out that there is only one Linux and that is a big advantage...
14:39:31 <Rubidium> hmm, by deduction I must be one of the non-Linux people
14:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "there is only one linux" is like saying "there is only one human"
14:43:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I call him TrueBrain :)
14:52:37 <Ammler> it is not possible to build multiple RV stops adjacent, or is it?
14:54:01 <Gekz> Grooveshark is an awesome music site.
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15:33:57 <PierreW> mh, there is no "free build mode" in openttd? (building without money-restrictions ^^)
15:34:37 <Tim> If that doesn't work, add the Windows-Key
15:34:41 <PierreW> okay, at least thats a workaround, thanks :)
15:34:57 <PierreW> want to play multiplayer, but without moneymaking, with a friend ^^
15:35:26 <Tim> Hm, i don't think those cheats will work in MP, but you can probably set the starting amount for each company very high.
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15:38:13 <PierreW> umm, where's that setting?
15:38:54 <Tim> I can't really tell you, you probably need some advanced-way of setting up a server, in the normal difficulties you can only set the starting loan up to 1.000.000...
15:39:22 <mramok> hi, does somebody know a working daylength patch for 0.6.2?
15:42:25 <fjb> What is the advantage of patching r0.6.2?
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16:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it doesn't change that often :)
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16:47:54 <Tekky> OpenTTD will now have YAPP in 0.7, hopefully cargodest will be in 0.8 :)
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16:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no 0.7 yet, why do you think that it's not making it?
16:59:10 <FauxFaux> r14153 (rubidium) doesn't build on VS, no strndup for starters.
16:59:46 <FauxFaux> I didn't see it in the /lastlog, sorry.
16:59:51 <glx> and that's the only fail reason
17:00:03 <FauxFaux> It is, the other was a conflict in the update. :)
17:02:33 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14154 /trunk/src/ (stdafx.h string.cpp string_func.h): -Fix (r14153): strndup is a GNU extension, so it doesn't exist on all platforms
17:18:17 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14155 /trunk/src/string_func.h: -Fix (r14154): wrong comments
17:28:33 <TrueBrain> you have a batboy too?
17:29:04 <peter1138> TrueBrain, once have I decided, I will designate one.
17:29:10 <TrueBrain> peter1138: cool! :)
17:29:18 <peter1138> Place your nominations!
17:30:09 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14156 /trunk/src/ (ini.cpp ini_type.h): -Fix (r14153): missing/wrong comments
17:30:16 * yorick gives truebrain a cookie for nominating me
17:30:29 * TrueBrain kicks yorick in return
17:30:29 <yorick> yes, it has chocolate :)
17:30:44 * yorick grabs foot and makes TrueBrain fall
17:32:37 * yorick kicks TrueBrain, lying on the ground
17:36:22 <fjb> You have been a badboy, yorick!
17:37:00 <yorick> kicks in return to cookies are generally not appreciated
17:37:06 <yorick> I vote truebrain for batbot!
17:41:13 <peter1138> Urgle, rail types is now 83KB
17:41:27 <yorick> wait, no, DorpsGek is batbot, TB is batboy :)
17:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a trivial solution to that ;)
17:42:42 <yorick> peter1138: I recommend committing pieces
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19:11:30 <Mortal> hah, every time a WLM message pops up, I feel the urge to hide it with spacebar...
19:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> better than pressing F1 to pause a video :p
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20:02:18 <LA> how realistic is maths inside OpenTTD?
20:02:49 <Sacro> LA: accurate to within 30%
20:03:58 <LA> but as u said, maths isn't accurate inside OpenTTD
20:04:27 <Sacro> basic rule of #openttd, answers that me and Eddi|zuHause* give may not be at all accurate
20:05:05 <Sacro> another rule, englsih only
20:05:06 *** LA is now known as LA[Lord]
20:05:41 <LA[Lord]> don't see it in *teh* topic :P
20:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is hardly anyone speaks englsih
20:05:49 <LA[Lord]> actually I've become lazy
20:06:10 <LA[Lord]> it's all cos of the damn MTA
20:06:46 <LA[Lord]> now I'm almost writing 1337-5p33k :(
20:07:05 <Rubidium> LA[Lord]: what's buggy in there?
20:07:57 <LA[Lord]> the fact that usual weight is 19 tonnes. max capacity is 37 tonnes and full wagon is 32 tonnes?
20:08:10 <LA[Lord]> so if it's full, the grain shrink
20:08:20 <LA[Lord]> or maize or whatever :P
20:08:32 <LA[Lord]> and it happens elsewhere too
20:08:57 <LA[Lord]> that the empty wagons wight + max capacity != max weight
20:10:06 * LA[Lord] wonders if there is anything to do with lua knowledge for OpenTTD
20:11:04 <Rubidium> ah, it needs to be 37 units of maize
20:11:46 <LA[Lord]> how big is one unit of maize?
20:12:29 <Rubidium> it seems not as much as one tonne
20:12:56 <LA[Lord]> why not fix the values?
20:13:48 <LA[Lord]> cos ie. oil tanker is almost correct
20:14:16 <LA[Lord]> 24 tonnes empty, 54 tonnes full
20:14:35 <LA[Lord]> although oil is lighter than water
20:15:08 <Rubidium> ask peter1138; he's expert in that area
20:16:15 <LA[Lord]> would it be useful if I made a table where I would give about the right values... eg I take the mass of 30 000 litres of oil and add it to empty weight.. and give the value?
20:16:32 <LA[Lord]> or it would be too much mess for too less gain?
20:19:20 <Rubidium> changing the values would break newgrfs
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20:44:51 <Mortal> is there a guide to signals on the wiki or elsewhere? I can't figure out how to make consistent, many-track stations with one-way rails
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20:47:46 <planetmaker> did you look in the wiki? There is...
20:59:51 <LA[Lord]> and tested with a VERY old build :P
21:00:12 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by peter1138 :: r14144 trunk/src/table/cargo_const.h (2008-08-23 18:05:52 UTC)
21:00:13 <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix (r8826): Incorrect cargo weights
21:00:23 <glx> because I think it's fixed now :)
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21:31:37 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14157 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add and use string properties for rail types instead of relying on consecutive string IDs.
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22:48:17 <Brianetta> Gah, my nightly script tried to check out revision XXXX
22:50:50 <peter1138> This konakona person has made trains with 8 engines and 2 wagons :o
22:51:27 <Brianetta> konakona doesn't seem to know what he's doing
22:51:28 <TrueBrain> poor Brianetta :) Soon you will have easier pages to parse, I promise :)
22:51:30 <peter1138> I think there's a file somewhere that gives the current version.
22:51:47 <Brianetta> peter1138: I don't want current, usually
22:52:06 <peter1138> Current nightly, I mean.
22:52:06 <Brianetta> Any chance of online play is made greater by getting the 8pm version
22:52:28 <peter1138> Besides, you can svn up to a date ;)
22:52:46 <Brianetta> Also, I suspect devs try to make sure that evening commits don't break things (:
22:53:13 <Brianetta> peter1138: svn up to a date works if the compile farm succeeded
22:57:51 <peter1138> Poor sunos_i386_dedicated users :(
22:58:40 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and nobody fixes it .. :p
23:00:23 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14158 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp table/railtypes.h): -Codechange: Initialization of rail type data from static source, so data can be changed.
23:02:49 <TrueBrain> Ammler: that file most likely doesn't survive this month ;)
23:03:16 <Ammler> TrueBrain: will there be an alternative?
23:03:48 <Ammler> that file will be used by many 3. party updater...
23:03:51 <TrueBrain> you will see :) (well, I could tell you now, but it currently contains dummy data .. and of course people will confuse it with the real data, so I am not going to paste it here :p
23:04:31 <Ammler> well, that is enough :-)
23:08:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14159 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_date.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: dates in year 0 were inaccessable (reported by Maninthebox)
23:10:35 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14160 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.cpp rail.h table/railtypes.h): -Codechange: Move _railtype_cost_multipliers into the rail type information struct.
23:12:23 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14161 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Codechange: allow inis to be loaded from tars.
23:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> since when is there a year 0?
23:12:55 <TrueBrain> since the start of years?
23:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there was never a year 0
23:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it jumped from -1 to 1
23:13:29 <TrueBrain> so we went from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D.?
23:13:53 <TrueBrain> cool :) So OpenTTD can start in a year that never extisted :)
23:14:26 <Rubidium> you can play OpenTTD in approximately 5 million years that have never existed
23:14:37 <Rubidium> (5 million minus 2008)
23:15:24 <TrueBrain> what is 73KB peter1138?
23:15:36 <TrueBrain> what does your patch do? :p
23:16:44 <Rubidium> it makes stuff look bettur
23:23:01 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
23:23:08 <peter1138> So, what's the use of ini files in tars?
23:23:50 <peter1138> sɯǝlqoɹd oʍʇ ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ʍou
23:25:10 <glx> <@peter1138> sɯǝlqoɹd oʍʇ ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ʍou <-- nice
23:25:22 <Digitalfox> peter1138 I actually had to flip my head to read what you wrote lol
23:26:15 <peter1138> Rubidium, ah, "some metadata" then...
23:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> could that be used to put a newgrf preset in a tar?
23:29:26 <peter1138> Possibly. NewGRF presets are stored in the main config because I didn't fancy writing a load of code to scan for files...
23:30:13 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14162 /trunk/src/rail.h: -Fix: Allow rail type conversion if the rail type cost multipliers are the same.
23:47:47 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
23:53:22 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14163 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix: update regression
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