IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-21
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00:02:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14117 /trunk/configure:
00:02:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: compile failing because the language files can't be copied to the right
00:02:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: directory when piping the output because during configure a wrong path would be
00:02:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: written in a variable when passing the output into a file under MinGW. You get
00:02:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: it? well, I do not.
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01:10:12 <fjb> That path reservation bug is really strange. Looks like the trains clears the reservation for the platform it just left only to reserve it again, but not the entire platform. The last tile of the platform which is the furthest away from the train doesn't get reserved.
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01:42:33 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14118 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h vehiclelist.cpp): -Fix(r14104): typos creeping like bugs
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02:08:19 <Sacro> what's that data type that's like an enum
02:08:26 <Sacro> but assigns them to 1,2,4,8 etc
02:08:32 <Sacro> so you can or them and and them
02:09:24 <glx> you can do that with an enum
02:09:55 <Sacro> or is that how you'd do it?
02:09:57 <glx> (that's how it's done in openttd)
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02:18:04 <Belugas> good <your-part-of-day> ben :)
02:19:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14119 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix(r14104): Forgot to make the gui disappear when the waypoint is deleted. Smatz pointing
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06:32:56 * Celestar resumes coding cargodest
06:35:13 * Forked offers Celestar a cup or fifty
06:36:00 * ben_goodger notes that it was ben_goodger, not Celestar, who said he needed caffeine; and then goes to the shop to buy two litres of pepsi max
06:36:20 <Forked> Celestar is coding features everybody wants :)
06:37:19 <ben_goodger> well, I am a member of the group "everybody" and I don't want cargodest :P
06:39:16 <Forked> go get your caffeine )
06:41:04 <ben_goodger> the shop opens in twenty minutes
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06:48:36 <Celestar> Forked: the feature is basically coded.
06:48:41 <Celestar> Forked: I need a full scale network test
06:48:59 <Forked> note to self: install linux on the laptop
06:49:14 * Celestar is just on a linux laptop
06:49:17 <Celestar> like most of the time :P
06:51:38 <Forked> vista at work :\ .. xp at home due to some games, linux on the server (but it has no console).. xp on the laptop - because I've been lazy and never really use it
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06:53:00 <Celestar> how can one work with vista?
06:53:08 <Celestar> I mean you can do work with XP, but with vista?
06:53:37 <Forked> it's actually not bad once you turn off all the crap
06:53:43 <Forked> helps having local admin rights
06:53:52 <Celestar> admin rights are EVIL
06:55:06 <Forked> biggest flaw in windows is that you need it to do anything at all
06:56:19 <Celestar> flaw? idocy more like :P
06:57:01 <Celestar> my almost-sister-in-law runs TeX on Vista, and vista bluescreens every 5-10 minutes using it. With Word, it takes about 45 minutes between bluescreens.
06:57:21 <Celestar> when you run a Suse life CD for 36 hours straight, the system is rock solid :S
06:57:47 <Forked> only bluescreens I've had the recent years have been because of hardware
06:58:08 <Forked> and hardware (harddrive) crashed my linuxbox as well :) reminds me, need to return that disk.. been sitting on my desk at work for several days now
06:58:25 <Celestar> I thought so too, hence my LiveCD test
07:00:04 <Forked> osX has it easy compared to windows though.. "I only need to run on a specified set of configurations that my creator has put together. Haha that poor windows git needs to be able to run on just about any fucked up configuration it's user has put together without having a clue" :p
07:00:20 <Forked> then again linux does the same as windows.. and does it well. Mostly because of good drivers I guess
07:03:28 <peter1138> Well, "99% of hardware doesn't have drivers for linux"
07:04:01 <peter1138> Hmm, I need to figure out how to apply offsets.
07:04:20 <Forked> peter1138: and here I thought it was mostly wireless cards
07:04:21 <peter1138> Well, not how, but the best way.
07:04:40 <peter1138> 99% of modems, webcams and wifi cards, possibly.
07:05:43 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if I won the lottery...
07:08:46 <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd-cargodest/src/routing.cpp:216: error: cannot declare member function ‘static void RoutingBase_t::GetDestinationsForCargos(const Vehicle*, std::vector<std::map<short unsigned int, unsigned int, std::less<short unsigned int>, std::allocator<std::pair<const short unsigned int, unsigned int> > >, std::allocator<std::map<short unsigned int, unsigned int, std::less<short unsigned int>, std::allocator<std::pair<const short unsigned int, un
07:11:14 <Celestar> I shouldn'T copypaste too much
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07:16:49 <peter1138> Hmm, there are two offsets, really.
07:17:23 <peter1138> Hmm, but the new rail drawing method complicates it somewhat.
07:25:56 <Celestar> non-trains don't have a scrollbar in their vehicle details window
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07:42:47 <Celestar> planetmaker: you there?
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07:47:19 <Celestar> especially for cargodest that will be extremely helpful
07:54:22 <CommanderZ> there was patch for it somewhere
07:54:59 <Rubidium> ah broken one you mean
07:55:10 <Celestar> I'll work on that later on
07:56:13 <Celestar> We need another full scale network test methinks
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08:13:41 <peter1138> Yay, home PC left on today :D
08:14:24 <Celestar> but I get a connection refused anyway?
08:14:38 <peter1138> That doesn't mean that hg serve is running...
08:15:00 <peter1138> It is now, but I don't think there's anything to pull.
08:16:54 <Celestar> but this didn't cause desyncs in temperate, hopefully?
08:18:39 <peter1138> More WTF: spritenum was already saved. Now it's saved twice?
08:20:03 <peter1138> Hmm, actually, this code makes no sense :)
08:20:43 <Noldo> BubbleTick is about some graphical effect in the toyland?
08:21:07 <Celestar> maybe it's misused for something else?
08:21:12 <Noldo> I really don'y get why those need to be in sync
08:21:41 <peter1138> Wow, the common vehicle include stuff is really messy.
08:21:54 <peter1138> But it's not included for effect vehicles, so it wasn't saved.
08:22:35 <peter1138> Noldo, they use vehicle slots.
08:23:00 <Celestar> peter1138: but it doesn't have anything to do with non-toyland desyncs, right?
08:23:16 <peter1138> Shouldn't do, unless it's abused elsewhere.
08:23:22 <Noldo> what is the benefit of using interactive random?
08:23:49 <peter1138> It doesn't affect Random()'s seed.
08:24:28 <Noldo> so calling it twice gives that same result?
08:25:02 <peter1138> It has its own seed. It's mean for client-side randomness.
08:46:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14120 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
08:46:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-08-21 10:46:06
08:46:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 fixed by tucalipe (33)
08:46:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed, 11 changed by Hadez (12)
08:46:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
08:46:42 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: estonian - 25 fixed, 111 changed by kristjans (135), vermon (1)
08:46:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: french - 3 fixed, 8 changed by glx (9), belugas (2)
08:48:48 <CommanderZ> CIA is something reporting changes on SVN?
08:54:25 <DorpsGek> Celestar: roujin was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Roujin> is he thinking at all?
09:01:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
09:05:52 <Celestar> peter1138: you got a wiki login, right?
09:06:12 <Celestar> peter1138: when you post something, do you get those nasty "guess-the-letters" images as well?
09:06:18 <peter1138> Not when I'm logged in.
09:06:26 <Celestar> who gives me a login?
09:06:42 <Rubidium> you go to wiki.openttd.org
09:06:49 <Rubidium> take a look in the right top corner
09:07:01 <Celestar> Rubidium: yes, when there's an external link ANYWHERE in the page (even outside the edited part)
09:07:36 <Rubidium> Celestar: any pageedit of someone who's not logged in requires the guess-the-letters thingy
09:08:22 <Celestar> I do _HAVE_ an account
09:11:32 * peter1138 ponders supporting snowy/desert tiles by using varaction support
09:11:53 <peter1138> Currently I'm calling the resolver for every tile, and performance seems okay.
09:12:13 <peter1138> (But that's a debug build on my Q6600)
09:14:23 <Celestar> how many calls / second
09:19:39 <Celestar> ImageMagick just rocks when you wanna perform repeated actions on images (=
09:23:49 <peter1138> I don't know how many calls / second.
09:24:19 <peter1138> I think it should be okay, as we already can handle lots of calls for stations, industries, houses, and of course vehicles.
09:24:29 <Celestar> peter1138: just run the game for n seconds and ask the profiler how many calls it did? (=
09:24:40 <peter1138> Just didn't bother yet :)
09:24:59 <peter1138> Ultimately, we can cache the calls, but that removes some flexibility.
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09:30:53 <Brianetta> You know, sometimes I think that OpenTTDcoop is help in far too high regard.
09:31:32 <peter1138> They seem a little elitist ;)
09:31:50 <CommanderZ> someone has to be :)
09:33:55 <Brianetta> It's that people crowd onto regular OpenTTD communications channels (like this, and the forum) using openttdcoop jargon and demanding to know how to shoe-horn PBS into mainlines and load balancers, etc
09:34:54 <Brianetta> That's on the wrong wiki, as far as I can tell
09:37:06 <peter1138> See, I liked playing coop with Sacro...
09:37:27 <Brianetta> He's an admin on my server (:
09:37:35 <peter1138> We just built with none of the rules and jargon and planning that openttdcoop uses.
09:37:51 <peter1138> Ended up with a much more 'natural' layout ;)
09:37:52 <Brianetta> I prefer a more natural look
09:38:26 <peter1138> It got a bit busy in one area as there was a maxed out forest...
09:38:34 <CommanderZ> I prefer the maglev insanity :) OTTDC has learned me a lot
09:38:50 <peter1138> But not the use of the word "taught" obviously.
09:39:41 * peter1138 shudders at signal-every-other-tile layouts.
09:40:51 <Brianetta> Some of openttdcoop's junctions make trains move further than some of my entire routes (:
09:41:01 <Celestar> can anyone reach the wiki?
09:41:09 <Celestar> I think I just crashed it :P
09:41:17 <Brianetta> Celestar: I could two minutes ago. Now I can't. Well done.#
09:41:28 <CommanderZ> nope, it is completely dead :)
09:41:31 <Celestar> I tried to upload a file :P
09:42:07 <Celestar> apparently, it didn't like the file :P
09:42:29 <Rubidium> or... hungary got disconnected again
09:42:43 <Rubidium> happens actually quite often
09:43:12 <Ammler> yep, then it is not just me :-)
09:44:21 <Rubidium> and it's connected again
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09:49:38 <Ammler> the quadrupel layout wouldn't work...
09:50:11 <Brianetta> Ammler: The station, and its references to load balancers, is like a huge #openttdcoop signature.
09:51:36 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14121 /trunk/Makefile.bundle:
09:51:36 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: bundle_exe didn't make the output directory, so it failed if you didn't do bundle_zip first.
09:51:36 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: another inconsistency between the "output" of bundle_exe and bundle_[zip|gzip|bzip2|<etc>].
09:51:47 <Ammler> yep, indeed, the stion looks nice.
09:54:16 <Ammler> you need also to differ betwenn coop games with a lot trains (1k) or coop games for eyecandy
09:54:31 <Ammler> our wiki is mostly based on the 1. type :-)
09:54:44 <Brianetta> <Ammler> yep, indeed, the stion looks nice.
09:54:52 <Brianetta> different tastes, clearly (:
09:55:32 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Do all these Makefile changes get backported?
09:56:34 <Rubidium> but most of the bundle stuff is already in 0.6
09:56:43 <Ammler> Brianetta: nice for the "1. type" :-)
09:57:03 <Rubidium> the only "new" thing is making making the installer easier
09:57:11 <Celestar> hm .. canals don't flood?
09:58:02 <Ammler> Celestar: in scenario editor with ctrl, afaik...
09:58:19 <Celestar> and you cannot place docks on canals?
09:58:43 <peter1138> You need to raise a tile near it, so it is built on a slope.
09:58:44 <Rubidium> just need to do it like you do it one seas too
10:04:09 *** Pikka|tf2 is now known as Pikka
10:05:53 <Brianetta> I made a gross presumption
10:06:11 <Brianetta> I assumed your permission to redistribute your Suburban Renewal Set
10:07:07 <Pikka> how dastardly and presumptuous!
10:07:30 * Rubidium ponders telling the daily sun or whatever other tabloid
10:07:54 <Brianetta> 'cause I'll pull them and admit my shame if you do (:
10:08:47 <Kloopy> Celestar: Are you able to view other companies route map?
10:08:59 <Brianetta> Celestar: What you could do, and this would be totally excellent, is output a dump of that so we can write a tool to make Harry Beck style network maps
10:09:52 <Brianetta> Is it just me, or is Poland rather damp?
10:10:38 <Celestar> Brianetta: we have that in console already
10:10:46 <Celestar> Brianetta: just in *very* raw data
10:10:50 <Brianetta> beckerize < celestars_patch.dump > tubemap.svg
10:10:59 <Kloopy> Celestar: By design or just not done it?
10:11:21 <Brianetta> But they could share their SVG map with you (:
10:11:27 <Celestar> Kloopy: the spectator can see everything ... if it didn't crash :P
10:11:29 <Brianetta> This would be like you taking a look in their station
10:11:46 <peter1138> Should spectators be able to see everything?
10:11:51 <Brianetta> They could be spies
10:12:22 <Kloopy> But you can view all the train orders for other players, can't you?
10:13:21 <Celestar> peter1138: what not ..
10:14:19 <Celestar> Brianetta: what do you need for those routemaps?
10:14:34 <Celestar> Brianetta: you can easily dump all the vertices and edges via console
10:16:32 <Brianetta> Celestar: Not sure. Have to look up the SVG specs, see what can be done.
10:17:10 <Brianetta> It would be a crowning achievement, though, wouldn't it? (:
10:18:32 <Celestar> only thing that might miss is the position of the vertices
10:18:45 <Celestar> but this is easy to obtain
10:19:22 <Brianetta> Actual positions don't have to be accurate
10:19:43 <Celestar> well, but if they are simply not there ..
10:20:06 <Brianetta> Then the route map would be entirely logical
10:20:56 <Brianetta> Who'd have thought that North Acton was further north than Edgware Road?
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10:27:12 <Brianetta> Somebody's written a paper on the subject
10:27:41 <Brianetta> Well, for two whole pages...
10:28:26 <peter1138> That gif is so blurry I can hardly read it.
10:28:52 <Brianetta> peter1138: That gif is only indicative of the relationship between Beck's map and geography
10:29:09 <peter1138> I'm looking for edgware road on it :)
10:29:15 <peter1138> I can see north acton
10:29:24 <Brianetta> It's the triple-blobwhere pink, green and yellow meet
10:30:04 <Brianetta> I happen to have a Tube map on my monitor
10:30:16 <peter1138> And not on the Beck map :)
10:30:29 <Brianetta> Actually, I'm misleading you
10:30:32 <Brianetta> That blob's Paddington
10:30:41 <Brianetta> I was misled, because on the Tube map it's two blobs
10:30:53 <Brianetta> Paddington Brown isn't Paddingotn Yellow Green Pink
10:31:08 <Brianetta> One of them's elsewhere
10:31:13 <Brianetta> like, clear across the station
10:32:12 <planetmaker> [10:08] <Celestar> [09:42:04] planetmaker: you there? <--- I am now :)
10:32:12 <Celestar> that's where the dreadful Heathrow Express ends :S
10:32:43 <Celestar> planetmaker: when could we conduct another full-scale network test? We've done some cooperative testing a few days ago.
10:33:13 <planetmaker> Celestar: in principle everytime. The dev server is currently not running anything
10:34:14 <planetmaker> myself, I'm quite busy the next few weeks, but setting up a game and compiling doesn't take ages :)
10:34:35 <Celestar> Noldo: I find it dreadful. Expensive, hot, uncomfortable, and late every time I use it. Still better than Picadilly however.
10:34:57 * Celestar notices that he finds *everything* connected to Heathrow dreadful
10:35:06 <Celestar> haven't been to T5 though
10:35:18 <Celestar> planetmaker: so all we need is players :P
10:36:11 <planetmaker> That should be feasable... the dev server isn't as busy as the public server - but we should get some people together to have a decent game running
10:36:29 <Celestar> Noldo: what platform?
10:36:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: we'd need to set up binaries for W32, l32 and l64 I think. Maybe MacOS
10:36:54 <planetmaker> Myself I don't have any binary so far...
10:37:10 <planetmaker> definitely MacOS. Or I cannot play :P
10:37:14 <Noldo> how far is the new dedicatec server?
10:37:32 <planetmaker> nor Osai, not sure about dih.
10:38:54 <planetmaker> do I need hg in order to obtain the source or will there be another possibility, Celestar ?
10:40:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: I'll possibly make a tar.bz2 if need be
10:40:33 <planetmaker> Celestar: that'd help me a lot, saving me the need to install both, booth and hg :)
10:41:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: the tar.bz2 will possibly not contain boost (because I currently expect boost to be in the system installation)
10:41:39 <Celestar> meh. I wish I know which boost files I need :S
10:42:02 <Celestar> show_me_header_dependencies_of routing_classes.h
10:42:06 <Celestar> I need such a function :S
10:42:48 <Noldo> make a cpp that has nothing but include that and the try to compile
10:44:35 <Noldo> gcc -MM gives the ones with "" but not the ones with <> it seems
10:45:05 <planetmaker> oh, well, I guess I can istall it...
10:45:19 <planetmaker> not sure on the server, though.
10:45:50 <planetmaker> but the binary got there last time, so should work this time ,too :)
10:49:04 <planetmaker> so, when do you want that, Celestar? We could setup the server maybe tonight?
10:49:52 <Celestar> grep boost routing.deps | wc -l
10:50:10 <Brianetta> My donation to the fundraiser finally cleared
10:50:35 <Celestar> Rubidium: we have 284 boost includes in cargodest :S
10:51:30 <planetmaker> but maybe it's repetitive calls of the same. So...
10:52:25 <planetmaker> actually interesting is the number of unique calls to the library - e.g. different things you use.
10:54:33 <Celestar> planetmaker: 284 individual files
10:55:00 <Celestar> find /usr/include/boost/ | wc -l
10:55:06 <planetmaker> sounds like doubling the source size of OpenTTD :)
10:56:41 <Celestar> planetmaker: 44061 additional lines :P
10:57:30 <Celestar> planetmaker: however, routing.cpp has 120000 lines worth of include files altogether :P
10:58:37 <planetmaker> :) wow, you really added quite a bit :) How much of that is yours?
10:58:53 <Celestar> er ... a handful about
10:59:01 <Celestar> everything else is system or openttd includes :P
10:59:12 <Celestar> openttd.cpp has 60000 lines worth of includes
11:02:00 <Celestar> openttd.cpp largest OVERALL include file is strings.h
11:02:19 <Celestar> even larger than in stl includes
11:03:08 <planetmaker> :) yeah. Strings are a nuisance to deal with...
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11:03:51 <peter1138> It grew a bit when I changed it from an enum to static const identifiers...
11:04:08 <peter1138> Technically all those are variables which break the coding style rules ;)
11:04:40 <Celestar> why static anyway :P
11:05:09 <peter1138> I can't remember why :p
11:05:10 <Celestar> static globals is deprecated in C++ :P
11:06:54 <Amixbook> rollercoaster subway
11:07:07 <Amixbook> but hey... its interesting
11:08:01 <Amixbook> if its japaneese made, it will come out
11:08:38 <Amixbook> they are building a test track now
11:08:48 <Amixbook> will be interesting to see how it works
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11:12:20 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
11:17:18 <Celestar> planetmaker: but actually I could use some single-player testers as well.
11:18:04 <Sacro> Celestar: testing what?
11:18:06 <Celestar> and someone who helps me with the wiki
11:18:09 <planetmaker> Celestar: what's the difference between single player test and MP test wrt quality of test :) ?
11:18:30 <Celestar> planetmaker: none. but SP test requires, well, only one player
11:18:40 * planetmaker nearly exclusively plays MP :)
11:19:25 <Celestar> Sacro: did you playtest cargodest?
11:19:40 <Sacro> Celestar: not yet, not got hg
11:20:01 <planetmaker> Celestar: I guess, the test should be w/o newgrf, right?
11:20:10 <Celestar> planetmaker: dunno, honestly.
11:20:19 <Celestar> planetmaker: if you have a set of STABLE newgrfs, why not ..
11:20:22 <peter1138> Probably just in case...
11:20:34 <planetmaker> point is: we get quite some desyncs recently on our PS...
11:20:43 <planetmaker> and I don't know which grf might be responsible
11:20:47 <CommanderZ> i could do some SP playtesting if you provide me win32 exe
11:20:53 <Sacro> i'd like to test it using Brianetta's Standard pack
11:21:14 <Celestar> CommanderZ: I have no win here, and dunno how to crosscompile for windows
11:22:25 <planetmaker> Brianetta: on your server, too?
11:22:30 <Brianetta> The random one, I suspect grvts
11:22:38 <Brianetta> the waypoint one, I suspect a good old-fashioned bug
11:22:48 <Brianetta> There's definitely a tram bug
11:22:58 <Celestar> what about using only DBSetXL and a simple tram set?
11:23:02 <Brianetta> teleporting looping one-tile-bound trams
11:23:53 <Celestar> what don't you like about it?
11:23:59 <Brianetta> It's just not British
11:24:21 <Brianetta> The trains don't have yellow ends
11:24:24 <peter1138> The artwork is not particularly impressive on it either.
11:24:34 <Sacro> *All* trains should have yellow ends
11:24:37 <Brianetta> Without yellow ends, they could hit all sorts of things
11:24:44 <Brianetta> anything on th eline
11:25:04 <Sacro> but the yellow distinguishes it
11:25:12 <Brianetta> Well *I* don't know what yellow ends are for
11:25:18 <planetmaker> It's nice IMO. And prolly one of the most tested, too.
11:25:19 <Brianetta> but trains aren't trains without them
11:25:24 * Celestar goes hunting some food
11:25:26 <Brianetta> unless they're steamers, for some reason
11:25:58 <Brianetta> but steamers have a red buffer
11:26:03 <Brianetta> and tubes have red ends
11:26:14 <Brianetta> thank goodness nobody thought purple was visible
11:26:39 <peter1138> Or that colour the drain people use...
11:27:06 <Brianetta> I was thinking about the dodginess of having a purple end entering a tunnel
11:27:52 <Sacro> "Take-off and landing are the most dangerous points of any flight, Chris Yates, aviation analyst for Jane's Information Group, told the BBC News website. "
11:28:08 <Sacro> at some point the plane has to intersect with the ground
11:28:20 <Sacro> peter1138: you can spot them well over a mile away
11:31:18 <Celestar> are there any high-speed trains in UK sets?
11:31:48 <Celestar> Sacro: unless it somehow achieves escape velocity :P
11:32:13 <Celestar> high-speed > 200km/h (>125mph)
11:32:55 <Sacro> Celestar: you mean like the High Speed Train?
11:33:17 <Sacro> our lines aren't rated for above that
11:33:31 <Sacro> unless HS2 is, but that will probably only be 140mph
11:33:49 <peter1138> UKRS has higher speed than that...
11:34:31 <Celestar> Sacro: how fast is the Eurostar now on the UK side?
11:35:09 <Celestar> I wonder whether the Spain really bump their "ICE3" to 350km/h or not :)
11:35:39 <Sacro> that's the max line speed
11:35:58 <Pikka> UKRS has 11 trains capable of 125mph or faster
11:36:11 <peter1138> Sacro, not for the eurostar, apparnetly.
11:36:25 <peter1138> 300km/h, except for tunnels.
11:37:29 <peter1138> Hmm, it now runs from St Pancras instead of Waterloo, heh...
11:38:34 <Celestar> what'S the difference between St Pancras and King's Cross?
11:39:09 <Celestar> isn't that the same station?
11:39:11 <Sacro> peter1138: didn't you know that#?
11:39:30 <Celestar> HS1 cost FIVE BILLION POUNDS?
11:39:30 <Sacro> they share a tube station
11:39:34 <Sacro> and are next door to each other
11:39:44 <Celestar> you could have covered half the country with maglevs for that price :S
11:39:45 <Sacro> Euston is only a few doors down too
11:39:52 <Brianetta> Celestar: I think making the SVG automatically might be mathematically optimistic.
11:40:01 <peter1138> Celestar, most of that was probably land cost...
11:41:07 <peter1138> Brianetta... you've not heard of graphviz?
11:41:18 <peter1138> Although I don't think it has a 'Beck' mode :)
11:41:30 <Sacro> graphiz should have a 'Beck' mode
11:41:30 <Ammler> Celestar: I think your wiki page isn't "Stub" anymore ;-)
11:42:43 <Celestar> Ammler: you're possibly right (=
11:43:01 <planetmaker> Celestar: the dev server is compiling...
11:45:29 <peter1138> Celestar, so what is "1 = (reserved)" for, anyway? :)
11:47:44 <Celestar> peter1138: I was planning to do something like maximum acceptance
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11:48:10 <Celestar> peter1138: where you could only deliver like N tons of goods to a certain town per month
11:51:34 <Forked> oh! may I grab that diff to play with when I have time?
11:51:37 <Celestar> 5000 lines worth of diff :o
11:51:42 <Brianetta> peter1138: I have not heard of graphviz.
11:51:45 <Celestar> Forked: no you mustn't :P
11:52:02 <Celestar> Forked: get it now (=
11:52:26 <Sacro> i installed VS2005, but I need to set up the environment for OpenTTD compilation
11:52:38 <planetmaker> Sacro: you'll still need boost library.
11:52:58 <Celestar> peter1138: how did we manage to accumulate 5000 lines worth of diff :P
11:53:28 <Brianetta> That looks like the kind of output
11:53:29 <Celestar> LOL the console command is 200 lines alone
11:54:41 <Celestar> and we've actually made the ifs in economy.cpp readable :P
11:56:57 <planetmaker> Brianetta: looks like the perfect station entry :)
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11:57:20 <Brianetta> planetmaker: Each node would be a starion
11:57:41 <Brianetta> My fingers are stiff today, if anyb'[dy's wondering about all the typos
11:58:03 <Sacro> i think my left leg has died
11:58:04 <planetmaker> Brianetta: rather a join and split before a station... but well :)
11:58:16 <Sacro> hopefully welshdragon will be out his meeting soon
11:58:20 <Brianetta> It's like the Underground map
11:58:48 <SpComb> Celestar: the Station Cargo List section is good
11:58:57 <planetmaker> but the graph is also an ideal solution to a non-blocking entry
12:04:35 <peter1138> Brianetta, Celestar, in fact, doesn't Boost's graph library have a graphviz/dot output library?
12:06:34 <Celestar> peter1138: write_graphviz(stream, RouteNetwork);
12:09:42 <peter1138> Brianetta, so... sounds like ebik's using ottdcoop constructions without really understanding why?
12:09:52 <Ammler> hg diff seems not compatible with tourtoise...
12:10:07 <peter1138> TortoiseSVN is known to be crap with diffs.
12:11:06 <peter1138> Applying patches is outside of svn's scope. TortoiseSVN does it for convenience, but does it badly.
12:11:50 <Ammler> Farden: complained about something like "Index missing"
12:12:55 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
12:14:55 <peter1138> Yes, because TortoiseSVN incorrectly uses that information, which is actually a comment.
12:16:31 <ln> but yes, i know the misleading information in translating.php cannot be changed.
12:16:35 <Ammler> has someone a winbin here?
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12:17:02 <Ammler> cargodest compatible with svn r14098M :-)
12:17:44 <Yorick> working on it...is it based on the latest hg?
12:18:53 <Yorick> btw, the latest hg includes boost
12:19:19 <peter1138> ln, yeah, I can't remember my login to it :o
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12:25:07 <Brianetta> peter1138: I'd say so
12:27:37 <Celestar> say what? I've dropped out
12:28:22 <Brianetta> Celestar: You missed nothing
12:32:58 <Celestar> Brianetta: you know that I'm just trying to obtain your graph, right? :P
12:33:21 <peter1138> Gah... adding additional methods of track drawing without it looking like a kludge is... gah...
12:33:48 <Brianetta> Celestar: SOmething can be done
12:34:11 <Brianetta> peter1138: Methods?
12:34:24 <peter1138> Current style and overlay style.
12:34:46 <Brianetta> Can't we just use overlay style across the board?
12:34:48 <peter1138> Hmm, should rail types be able to have their own style of signals?
12:34:58 <peter1138> Brianetta, makes it difficult to use the original graphics.
12:35:22 <Brianetta> Are there missing combinations?
12:35:34 <Brianetta> Perhaps it's time to replace the original tracks (:
12:37:53 <Brianetta> Celestar: That's cute
12:38:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
12:38:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: one line of code :P
12:38:28 <Brianetta> Can you combine the pairs of arrows into lines?
12:39:04 <Brianetta> Unidirectional track is a rarity; just circles, really
12:39:11 <Brianetta> On the Tube, you only see it at Heathrow
12:39:41 <Brianetta> In Glasgow, there's only a loop. The trains have doors on one side only (:
12:40:07 <Celestar> Brianetta: as I said, this is the output generated from a single line of code (=
12:42:15 <Brianetta> Celestar: That line of code... what is it?
12:42:55 <Celestar> boost::write_graphviz(GraphViz, RouteNetwork);
12:43:13 <Celestar> oh I need another line to construct the "GraphViz" variable :P
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12:50:43 <peter1138> Need some way of mapping the IDs to names ;)
12:51:05 <peter1138> And then forcing the graphviz people to implement a 'Beck' mode...
12:52:21 <peter1138> I guess 2-37-38-39-41 is non-shared orders?
12:55:17 <Celestar> Brianetta: reload file
12:55:34 <Celestar> peter1138: peter1138 mapping the IDs to names is easy, but I need to store the name in the vertex
12:55:48 <Celestar> peter1138: there are other ways, but they take more time (=
12:55:51 <peter1138> Unless you product the graphviz output manually...
12:56:28 <Brianetta> Celestar: It's good, I think. Can you differentiate between routes?
12:56:29 <peter1138> Interesting that 48-12 takes the long way around :)
12:56:51 <Brianetta> Node 2 is clearly an important station
12:57:16 <Brianetta> but where does 0 -> 2 -> continue to without a change?
12:57:40 <peter1138> Problem is the routing graph does not contain that information.
12:58:09 <Brianetta> It has a very hierarchical look
12:58:26 <peter1138> I guess it's possible by doing it manually and parsing the order lists as well.
12:58:30 <Brianetta> What's with node 33? Not connected to anything at all?
12:58:45 <peter1138> On the other hand, if you're parsing order lists, you don't need the routing graph at all :)
12:59:37 <Brianetta> Order lists might be better, for an effective "tube map"
13:00:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: differentiate in what way?
13:00:34 <Brianetta> Celestar: Which stations are on the District Line?
13:01:35 <Celestar> Brianetta: ENO_UNDERSTAND
13:01:55 <Brianetta> Celestar: The stations are on lines
13:02:49 <Celestar> the routing system doesn't know the concept of "lines"
13:02:57 <Celestar> Brianetta: node 33 is not connected.
13:02:59 <Brianetta> but it knows changes?
13:03:22 <Brianetta> Every time you need to chang evehicle, you're changing line
13:03:27 <Celestar> Brianetta: it knows changes, I doesn't know about "staying on board"
13:03:58 <Brianetta> but it does know where to get off.
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13:04:30 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, you change the line at EVERY station
13:04:50 <Brianetta> this isn't going to be very easy
13:05:24 <Celestar> Brianetta: when you parse the order lists, then it works
13:05:37 <Brianetta> yeah, peter1138 was saying
13:05:55 <Brianetta> The route map basically names every station you go through
13:06:34 <Celestar> summin like that, yeah
13:06:56 <Celestar> we COULD implement the concept of lines without much hassle, but it would be only for the output
13:07:09 <Brianetta> I don't want to complicate it needlessly
13:07:20 <Brianetta> I'd rather see it in trunk (:
13:08:03 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
13:08:28 <Celestar> it's not complicated
13:08:37 <Celestar> it's just some information only for a graphviz output
13:09:03 <Brianetta> If it makes something that make people go wow
13:09:32 <Celestar> I'll keep this in mind (=
13:10:25 <Brianetta> autopilot automatic route mapping?
13:10:38 <Brianetta> Could update the web page with passenger maps
13:13:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: the thing is, I can add the information where a line continues in two minutes. But there's no COTS tool to parse that data. At least nothing I know of
13:14:23 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
13:17:46 <Celestar> but that's about 12 lines :P
13:17:59 <Brianetta> Combined arrows too?
13:18:14 <Celestar> Brianetta: that's one sed over the file
13:18:25 <Belugas> i wonder what i did to deserve so much luv from dih...
13:18:38 <Celestar> Brianetta: but there are several unidirectional routes
13:18:39 <Yorick> I think it is a long-time-no-see hug
13:18:56 <Brianetta> Celestar: Can't you parse for pairs?
13:19:09 <dih> no - it's just a hug-a-friend-hug
13:19:13 <Celestar> Brianetta: I can. somehow. dot/graphviz can't :P
13:19:33 <Brianetta> So you either have arrows or lines?
13:19:39 <Celestar> it can do directed graphs or undirected graphs
13:20:04 * Celestar stares at the manpage some more
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13:20:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas_Gone
13:20:19 <Brianetta> dih: The h is like the one in your name
13:20:51 <dih> it's not - it's from dihedral (2 letter nicks suck)
13:20:54 <Brianetta> I've been typo-ing all day
13:20:57 <Brianetta> I have stiff fingers
13:21:20 <peter1138> Undirected looks nicer, I think.
13:21:20 <Brianetta> Can you get graphviz to put the paths inthe same place?
13:21:29 <Brianetta> Then you'd end up with a double-headed arrow
13:22:51 <Celestar> oh this is going to be a bit more of a challenge (=
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13:24:39 *** Guest2810 was kicked by Belugas (You know why...)
13:33:08 * Yorick gives celestar for all the good work he has done
13:33:59 * peter1138 ponders railtype introduction and obsolecense dates.
13:34:30 <Yorick> railtype introduction should come with vehicle introduction
13:34:48 <Yorick> obsolecense dates are a good idea, but could also get there as soon as the last vehicle is gone
13:35:13 <peter1138> What if I want to introduce a high speed track after a certain date?
13:35:34 <Yorick> hm, just get new vehicles for it?
13:35:34 <peter1138> All trains that run on it can also run on the old slower track.
13:36:43 *** |Bastiaan| has joined #openttd
13:36:46 <peter1138> Hehe, it can have a massive curve speed advantage. SirkoZ would love that ;)
13:36:57 <Belugas> obsolecense is tricky. it means keeping the building time on the map
13:37:08 <Yorick> [15:35] <peter1138> All trains that run on it can also run on the old slower track. <-- but can slower trains also run on the faster track?
13:37:21 <Belugas> Sirkoz would add some randomizeation to fine tune it ;)
13:39:21 <Yorick> hmm, then it would be a good idea to add introduction dates and such
13:39:23 <peter1138> Belugas, building time is not necessary. Obsolecense in this case just meaning that you can't built it any more.
13:39:55 <peter1138> I can't really think of a use for obsolecense at the moment, but having the option might be useful for someone.
13:40:41 <Yorick> but one introduction precondition for introducing new types is that there are vehicles available which can run on that tracktype
13:41:10 <peter1138> I think that's doable.
13:41:19 <Kloopy> Yes, if you have the condition that you can't open the track build tools for a track type that has no valid engines, you have obsoleteness built in already.
13:41:37 <Kloopy> Because all engines can be made obsolete in the grf, surely?
13:41:47 <Yorick> Kloopy: not after 2050
13:41:58 <Yorick> after 2050 all vehicles are frozen
13:42:25 <Kloopy> Is that not easily patched? To keep single player end-game at 2050 but allow grfs to set dates after 2050?
13:42:28 <Belugas> ok, peter1138, understood
13:44:01 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
13:44:04 <Rubidium> Kloopy: but how to determine till when vehicles must be obsoleted?
13:45:00 <Rubidium> imagine you load a train set that introduces a train in 2090, then none of the 'normal' road vehicles, aircraft and ships will be available after 2070-ish
13:45:36 <Kloopy> The normal game vehicles will be available, because the standard game vehicles are still around in 2050.
13:45:54 <Kloopy> But if you use grfs to replace those, it's up to the player to use grfs that have compatible year ranges.
13:46:20 <Kloopy> A bit like chosing new industries and not having a train grf to transport new industries.
13:46:30 <Celestar> hey Rubidium how is it?
13:46:52 <Rubidium> Kloopy: you don't want to know how many people complain about their trains not being able to transport those cargos
13:47:02 <Rubidium> or why newcargos and pbi and ecs don't work together
13:47:09 <Kloopy> Hehe, I can imagine. :)
13:47:14 <Rubidium> Celestar: I'm getting bitchy on a lot of OSes lately
13:47:59 <Rubidium> making the new compile farm work sanely
13:48:15 <Celestar> Brianetta: let's say, ALMOST got it :)
13:48:30 * Belugas does not envy Rubidium's task
13:48:47 <Brianetta> Just the sed job for double lines, then?
13:49:21 <Celestar> Brianetta: up to now, nothing is sedded
13:49:40 <Brianetta> THe double lines are still doubled
13:50:14 <Celestar> because one goes one way, one goes the other way ;)
13:56:37 <Celestar> Brianetta: I promise, if you make a decent route map out of this, I will deal with the double lines :P
13:59:32 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
14:00:26 *** dih is now known as dihedral
14:00:54 <TrueBrain> Dear fellow OpenTTD users .. expect some downtime on several key OpenTTD services in the next few minutes, up to a few hours, depending on your DNS cache ;)
14:01:06 <TrueBrain> We are going to welcome LeaseWeb :)
14:02:20 <Celestar> hey TrueBrain how are ya?
14:02:29 <TrueBrain> hi Celestar :) I am find, you? :)
14:02:39 <TrueBrain> ln: by hitting the keyboard at the correct place?
14:02:40 <dihedral> ln: that was neither english, nor was that in quotes
14:02:56 <dihedral> you know how irate you get about that yourself
14:03:05 <Celestar> TrueBrain: coding cargodest, mostly (=
14:03:10 *** dihedral is now known as dih
14:03:29 <Celestar> and trying to create a tubemap out of it :P
14:03:29 <ln> dihedral: i'm trying to find vays to express silly accents in text.
14:04:10 <Brianetta> äõôiéà silly enough for you?
14:04:40 <ln> it's not particularly silly, it's plain gibberish.
14:05:35 <thingwath> Příliš žluťoučký kůn úpěl ďábelské ódy :-)
14:06:48 <Ammler> TB: it can't go worse then it was last days ;-)
14:08:52 <TB> Ammler: well, this are exactly the other services than the last days :p (boo-hoo, 2 days downtime on 5 years uptime ...)
14:10:11 <ln> i tåget finns en restaurangvagn.
14:10:31 *** ln was kicked by DorpsGek (get lost)
14:10:40 <glx> TB: your slave didn't recognised you ;)
14:10:49 <TB> glx: not under this name ;)
14:11:08 <glx> indeed, different name and different host
14:12:39 <ln> TB: i already have Lost up to season 4.
14:13:37 <glx> season 4 ended last saturday here
14:16:33 <Ammler> is 80.247.163.158 new or old ip?
14:16:38 <Belugas> season 5 will end in a month here
14:16:50 * ln is now known as ln_away_for_the_next_few_hours
14:16:53 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
14:17:18 <TrueBrain> @kban ln is now known as long for a long while
14:17:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
14:17:44 <ln> TrueBrain: do you have a problem?
14:17:58 <TrueBrain> yeah, my @kban didn't work
14:18:03 <ln> TrueBrain: i mean, like a mental problem of some sort.
14:18:18 <Ammler> TrueBrain: if I dig svn.openttd.org, I get the old ip with a TTL of >3000
14:18:21 <ln> TrueBrain: you seem to get irritated quite easily.
14:18:30 <TrueBrain> Ammler: so you have to wait an hor :p
14:19:29 <Celestar> I don't get the double lines removed that easily
14:19:49 <Yorick> ln: you would almost start to think he does
14:22:11 *** Rubidium sets mode: +q *!lanurm@castor.utu.fi
14:22:18 *** Rubidium sets mode: -q *!lanurm@castor.utu.fi
14:23:33 <Yorick> somebody is trying to deny...
14:24:28 <Ammler> how do I flush dns cache on linux?
14:25:07 <SpComb> Ammler: depends on what DNS resolver/cache you use
14:25:16 <blathijs> AFAIK DNS caching is taken care of by libc, in memory
14:25:18 <TrueBrain> Ammler: and your ISP caches stuff too
14:25:27 <dih> Ammler: dns cache also refers to that of the configured dns server ;-)
14:25:37 <SpComb> for bind, `rndc flush`or something similar to that
14:25:47 <Ammler> yeah, I would need to hack the ISP then :-)
14:25:51 <dih> only if bind is configured to accepb rndc calls
14:26:47 <SpComb> which it is by default on debian, so meh
14:26:47 <TrueBrain> Ammler: edit your /etc/hosts :)
14:27:02 <SpComb> ...and then forget to remove it later
14:28:00 <SpComb> DNS caches are an annoying thing sometimes
14:28:00 <SpComb> like if you're trying to test if some weir
14:28:01 <TrueBrain> I am full of those :p
14:28:01 <SpComb> d configuration works with certain resolvers
14:39:06 <TrueBrain> You want to know something cool? The new server is env-friendly ;) (green-power and stuff :p)
14:43:02 <dih> Celestar: you have way too much time on your hands :-)
14:43:19 <TrueBrain> Celestar: how is your dancing going? :)
14:43:30 <Celestar> dih: it's only a few lines of diff (=
14:43:38 <Celestar> dih: 123 lines to be exact
14:43:53 <Celestar> TrueBrain: not bad. slipped into the top50 of the German Ranking List
14:44:10 <planetmaker> what a graph, Celestar :)
14:44:35 <dih> Celestar: add Karlsruhe ;-)
14:44:50 <Celestar> dih: there's no "Karlsruhe" in my game
14:46:10 <Celestar> renaming cities as a transport company feels wrong :P
14:46:46 <planetmaker> Celestar: that's modern and called sponsoring.
14:47:01 <planetmaker> "We build all those roads for you and you rename to a name which suits you".
14:47:08 <planetmaker> Not long till it'll happen, I guess
14:47:25 <planetmaker> ...which suits us"
14:50:11 <Celestar> the good thing is: I'm at about 150 vehicles, running with debug level 3, and still have < 50% CPU usage
14:50:44 <planetmaker> on a quad core :P
14:50:57 <Celestar> just recompiling with real settings
14:51:15 <TrueBrain> Celestar: what are you trying? :)
14:52:10 <planetmaker> ps.openttdcoop.org:3982 <-- you might want to look, Celestar. It's no newgrf (and actually no new game), but... it works so far smoothly
14:52:42 <planetmaker> (or maybe any other person who cares to test the cargodest patch :)
14:53:23 <Celestar> TrueBrain: cargodest
14:53:47 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
14:53:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: will do in a minute, I first have to get rid of the mapwriting patch
14:53:53 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP"
14:53:54 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
14:53:57 <TrueBrain> Celestar: which is what exactly? :)
14:53:59 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Celestar
14:54:08 <Celestar> TrueBrain: destinations for cargo
14:54:15 <Celestar> TrueBrain: "paxdest"
14:54:18 <TrueBrain> wasn't there already a patch for it? :p
14:54:24 <Celestar> TrueBrain: yes. but this one works :P
14:54:40 <Celestar> TrueBrain: plus it's FAST, plus it work in multiplayer
14:55:14 <Celestar> TrueBrain: and it's written cleanly
14:55:27 <TrueBrain> so you have time on your hands, I understand ;)
14:55:30 <Celestar> intrusion into other parts of the code is microscopic
14:55:45 <Celestar> TrueBrain: actually no, I have reports to finish, but I need distraction because writing reports SUCK
14:56:51 <TrueBrain> why not upload the hg to dev-space?
14:59:13 <TrueBrain> you received an email with details about it ;)
14:59:23 <Celestar> so like developers/celestar/cargodest ?
14:59:41 <TrueBrain> if you login via ssh, you will that there already is a 'celestar' dir there
14:59:52 <Brianetta> Celestar: Very pretty
15:00:14 <Celestar> TrueBrain: yeah I'll do that at some point
15:00:24 <Celestar> TrueBrain: once I know how to include boost properly
15:00:33 <TrueBrain> so something like: hg push ssh://celester@secure.openttd.org//var/repos/hg/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg should take care of that
15:00:43 <TrueBrain> (of course you need to create the dir and run 'hg init' on it first via ssh)
15:01:02 <Celestar> what th e.. just let me try it
15:01:03 <TrueBrain> ps, the second // isn't a typo ;)
15:01:28 <TrueBrain> you might want to add the push url in your .hg/hgrc (or what is it called), under push .. then 'hg push' does it for you :p
15:01:50 <TrueBrain> and be careful with 'rollback', it creates multiple heads on the remote .. glx always complains about that to me :p
15:02:09 <Celestar> I dunno how to use rollback :P
15:02:24 <TrueBrain> keep it that way ;)
15:02:27 <blathijs> Is rollback something like rebase in git?
15:02:36 <TrueBrain> blathijs: it simply removes the last commit
15:02:42 <blathijs> Ie, giving commits a different heads and changing history?
15:02:44 <TrueBrain> 'hg rollback', and the last commit becomes the current diff
15:02:55 <blathijs> Ah, it could be used for rebasing then
15:02:59 <TrueBrain> I use it when I forgot a commit message :p
15:03:15 <TrueBrain> blathijs: not really .. rebase is a bit more complex and powerful ;)
15:03:23 <blathijs> It has the same problems as rebasing, when you do it after pushing
15:03:31 <Celestar> peter1138: on a large game LoadUnloadStation eats quite a bit
15:03:33 <Yorick> Celestar: how to go to the treeview with cargodest?
15:03:50 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I know, but you could rollback changes, commit some others and then reapply the changes rolled back, effectively doing a rebase
15:03:58 <Yorick> the station "tree view"
15:04:10 <Celestar> Yorick: yeah ... check the wiki (=
15:04:19 <orudge> hnmm, vcs.openttd.org down, TrueBrain? I get "destination host unreachable" when pinging it from yoda, and also don't get anything when pinging it from here
15:04:20 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yup :) My point was: rebase allows N revisiosn, rollback only 1 ;)
15:04:25 <Celestar> TrueBrain: ok.. trying to push now
15:04:45 <TrueBrain> orudge: if I am here, it should tell you something ;) hehe :p Nah,w e moved it to LeaseWeb
15:04:49 <TrueBrain> so give your DNS some time to update
15:04:56 <TrueBrain> (some more sponsering: LeaseWeb LeaseWeb LeaseWeb LeaseWeb LeaseWeb)
15:05:18 <Celestar> no NoAI commits for 2 weeks? :(
15:05:24 <blathijs> TrueBrain: But you can't rollback N times?
15:05:28 <TrueBrain> Celestar: been a bit too busy with .. LeaseWeb :p
15:05:37 <TrueBrain> blathijs: never tried .. possible .. but when you recommit, it will be 1 commit ;)
15:06:00 <blathijs> Yeah, you do need to keep the diffs seperate manually of course :-)
15:06:11 <Celestar> remote: added 19668 changesets with 43728 changes to 1572 files
15:06:17 <orudge> TrueBrain: on the screens.php page
15:06:17 <orudge> Warning: rsort() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given in /var/www/www.openttd.org/htdocs/screens.php on line 110
15:06:21 <TrueBrain> blathijs: so git is more powerful with such things :p
15:06:33 <Celestar> TrueBrain: how do I get it added to the html interface?
15:06:50 <Yorick> Celestar: I guess you should commit something
15:06:53 <TrueBrain> orudge: works here .. that is still on the old location .. not touched in a long while
15:07:00 <TrueBrain> Celestar: wait til lthe cache expires .. :p
15:07:08 <Celestar> TrueBrain: ok will do (=
15:07:17 <Celestar> Yorick: 19668 changesets SHOULD be enough :P
15:07:19 <glx> <@Celestar> no NoAI commits for 2 weeks? :( <-- reminds me I have a sync to do :)
15:07:22 <TrueBrain> there you go Celestar :)
15:07:27 <orudge> hmm, this time the error has disappeared, but still no screenshots
15:07:33 <TrueBrain> orudge: the www is still in the old location ;)
15:07:43 <TrueBrain> any possible 'finds' of it on the new, are .. well .. bad luck ;)
15:08:18 <blathijs> orudge: Is that a problem? ASCII is also UTF-8, right?
15:08:26 <TrueBrain> description = NoAI patches
15:08:26 <TrueBrain> contact = TrueBrain
15:08:33 <TrueBrain> you might want to add that :) (via ssh)
15:08:46 <Ammler> Celestar: "pax" is more coop jargon, isn't the "official" short "pass"?
15:09:07 <Celestar> Ammler: PAX is one of the international abbreviations for passenger(s)
15:09:12 <Celestar> Ammler: the other being SLF
15:09:13 <TrueBrain> blathijs: I tihnk he means the special chars ;)
15:09:50 <TrueBrain> (for hg this is weird, but 'vcs' is to 'view', and 'hg' is to 'download' ..)
15:09:54 <Ammler> hmm, where did I read pass...
15:09:56 <TrueBrain> just for hg they are identical .. :p
15:10:23 <blathijs> TrueBrain: He probably means there are no UTF-8 characters that don't have the same representation in ASCII, which doesn't really matter much
15:10:46 <Celestar> Ammler: somewhere in the code I guess
15:11:09 <Ammler> hmm, maybe it was from ECS
15:11:51 <Brianetta> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
15:11:54 <Brianetta> Clearly it isn't (:
15:12:43 <peter1138> Just update the pages so they do actually contain UTF-8.
15:12:54 <peter1138> orudge worded it slightly wrong ;)
15:13:19 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, so it contains characters that are not UTF-8, that's something different than no UTF-8 at all :-)
15:13:21 <orudge> it was being sent, in the headers, as UTF-8, but the page didn't actually contain UTF-8 encoding
15:13:25 <orudge> but anyway, you got what I meant :p
15:13:31 <TrueBrain> in fact, the page is UTF-8
15:13:36 <TrueBrain> just the HTTP header is wrong ;)
15:13:39 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe we should make some annoucement on the forum?
15:14:07 <TrueBrain> (it does work on the old location :p)
15:14:08 <peter1138> The content is ISO8859-1(5), when it should be UTF-8.
15:14:11 <TrueBrain> (and the source are identical)
15:14:54 <orudge> it is indeed fine on the old site
15:15:06 <TrueBrain> hit the button on your browser to force UTF-8, and it is fine :)
15:15:10 <Brianetta> Even the meta header I pasted?
15:15:12 <TrueBrain> but don't worry about it, it will be fixed before you know it :)
15:15:13 <orudge> but the new site is being rendered as UTF-8, and the symbols are not fine
15:15:30 <orudge> seems something got a bit corrupted
15:15:32 <Celestar> Ammler: it's always PAX, or SLF(colloq.)
15:15:34 <Ammler> mäh, I need to change my nameservers, got another 3600 with old ip
15:15:35 <Brianetta> <dt>Jean-Fran�ois Claeys (Belugas)</dt>
15:15:58 <Celestar> beh. can't you people have 7-bit ASCII names?
15:16:00 <peter1138> The new one is not UTF-8 encoded, but the old one is.
15:16:09 <Belugas> damned... my real identity has been revealed
15:16:16 <peter1138> Did a database migration go wrong? :o
15:16:18 <TrueBrain> hmm, the header is also send correctly .. weird .. well, wil check that out later :)
15:16:25 <TrueBrain> peter1138: possible :p
15:16:31 <Brianetta> It's definitely not encoded as UTF8
15:16:34 <peter1138> If I force it to ISO8859-1 it works fine.
15:16:40 <TrueBrain> Belugas: and now you find out? :p
15:16:41 <orudge> ah, perhaps the mysql encodings weren't the same on both servers?
15:16:45 <peter1138> But that is clearly wrong, because UTF-8 is the one-true-encoding.
15:16:52 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm not worried about LoadUnloadStation btw. If we run into problems, there's another level of caching we can add
15:17:20 <Celestar> peter1138: performance of cargodest
15:17:33 <Celestar> peter1138: check the link above? :P
15:17:34 <peter1138> Sorry, not paid any attention.
15:17:49 <peter1138> Have been trying to find out why a mail config no longer works :o
15:17:49 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
15:18:03 <Celestar> I've got to set up my mail server at some point
15:18:04 <peter1138> It used to, I'm sure.
15:18:09 <TrueBrain> lol, peter1138, you are right :)
15:18:13 <TrueBrain> mysql changed back to latin1
15:18:32 <TrueBrain> well, it always was .. hmm .. what ever :p
15:19:23 <peter1138> It's not looking up virtual_mailbox_maps at all :o
15:19:47 <Celestar> Brianetta: so what do we do with the tube maps?
15:19:47 <peter1138> Or just not logging it...
15:20:38 <Celestar> Brianetta: I'm not getting any further in converting the raw data in anything prettier (=
15:21:28 <Celestar> whatever I uploaded is the best I could get up to now
15:21:37 <Celestar> peter1138: have you see the "tubemaps" ? (=
15:23:27 <Celestar> Brianetta: dot is not honoring the lengths or the positions whatsoever apparently
15:23:52 <Celestar> Brianetta: other output systems run out of memory before anything useful was printed :P
15:24:34 <Celestar> Brianetta: but we have something that we can use I guess
15:24:42 <Celestar> Brianetta: we just need to optimize the output of the data we get
15:25:22 <Celestar> Brianetta: apparently, the program for the London Tube maps is open source :P
15:26:27 <Celestar> I've read it somewhere
15:26:31 <Celestar> can't find the link at the moment :S
15:36:31 <Celestar> planetmaker: ok where did that server run on?
15:38:36 <Belugas> Celestar, just a quick question: you are in aerospace, right?
15:38:44 <Celestar> Belugas: kind of, yes
15:38:55 <planetmaker> Celestar: on our dev server:
15:39:03 <Belugas> a friend of mine asked me if the plans for Ariane's rockets were public, like .. open source
15:39:04 <planetmaker> mz.openttdcoop.org:3982
15:39:04 <Celestar> yeah, but what was the port?
15:39:29 <Celestar> Belugas: they could serve as ICBM you know
15:40:30 <planetmaker> ICBM for everyone! yeah!
15:48:12 <Celestar> would solve some probs
15:49:24 <blathijs> Would solve a lot of other things as well
15:50:01 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14122 /branches/noai/ (119 files in 13 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14072:14121
15:50:08 <thingwath> well, if there would be also open source nuclear weapons
15:51:45 <Forked> hmm, sounds like aproduct that will produce ALOT of debug at level 3 ?
15:52:21 <Yorick> nuclear weapond also produce ALOT of debug at level 0
15:52:44 *** CommanderZ has left #openttd
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16:09:06 <TrueBrain> Dear users, in a short while you will experience problem reaching the master server, till the point your DNS cache for master.openttd.org expires
16:10:07 <TrueBrain> (oh, and www.openttd.org moves to the new location ;))
16:11:31 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
16:11:35 *** TrueBrain sets mode: +b *!*@castor.utu.fi
16:11:38 <TrueBrain> @kick ln you still annoy me
16:11:38 *** ln was kicked by DorpsGek (you still annoy me)
16:13:52 <Celestar> peter1138: doing full openttdcooop test of cargodest at the moment (=
16:16:36 <TrueBrain> lol, SpComb, guess what ... I had an old record in my /etc/hosts and was wondering why it still didn't work :p Hehe :)
16:18:21 * Yorick adds leaseweb banner to adblocker
16:18:46 <TrueBrain> like it is annoying in any way :)
16:18:54 <TrueBrain> at least they have a nice small logo :)
16:19:05 <TrueBrain> I have seen some 'powered by' logos in the past few weeks ... omg .. :p
16:19:22 <Yorick> it is spoiling the heade
16:20:05 <TrueBrain> in the new design I will try to fit it in more nice :)
16:20:09 <TrueBrain> how are you btw Yorick? :)
16:20:12 <TrueBrain> (brb, shopping time!)
16:21:33 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
16:22:16 <Yorick> long time no-got-kicked :-)
16:22:48 <Digitalfox> That's the banner? That isn't annoying at all, I thought it was going to be a medium size banner, but this one isn't even considered a banner :)
16:26:13 <peter1138> That is pretty small as banners go :)
16:27:41 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:28:33 <Digitalfox> If someone complains about that banner and how it bloats the page, please give me his address and I'll send it to CIA as a terrorist address.. =0
16:29:04 <Digitalfox> I'm sure the CIA will give that person a nice treatment to his head ;)
16:29:25 *** Pikka is now known as Pikka|tf2
16:39:18 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
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16:57:01 <TrueBrain> Yorick: so you finally stopped challanging me? :p
16:57:20 <Yorick> TrueBrain: it was never really my intention...
16:57:58 <TrueBrain> I am kidding Yorick :)
17:00:23 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: I expected a bigger banner too, but this is very doable :)
17:00:25 * Yorick wonders why he deserved that
17:00:36 <TrueBrain> I want your money Yorick :)
17:00:44 <TrueBrain> Belugas: painful :p
17:00:50 <Digitalfox> Oh hug contest.. I want a hug too :(
17:01:02 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: www.google.com :p
17:01:06 * Yorick hugs Digitalfox and gets his money
17:01:14 * TrueBrain tries not to kick Yorick :p
17:01:24 <Digitalfox> bad TrueBrain, you're bad...
17:01:33 * Yorick tries TrueBrain not to kick Yorick
17:02:04 <Digitalfox> now TrueBrain since yexo give a hug, i'll give him my iphone :p
17:02:20 <TrueBrain> Belugas: poor Belugas :(
17:05:24 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd
17:05:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek
17:05:38 <TrueBrain> welcome back DorpsGek
17:05:51 <glx> get back to work DorpsGek :)
17:05:52 <Yorick> DorpsGek has migrated to another Dorp
17:06:28 <TrueBrain> welcome back DorpsGek
17:06:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
17:06:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
17:06:35 <DorpsGek> Yorick: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
17:06:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: Xmlrpc is already loaded.
17:06:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
17:07:16 <glx> now it just need to update the topics
17:07:29 <glx> and report the latest commit
17:07:32 <TrueBrain> glx: which revision?
17:08:31 <DaleStan> TTDPatch's acceleration models are user-controlled by the curves and mountains switches. Each of normal, monorail, maglev, and road has 4 independent settings for each switch, for a total of 16 possible "models" per track type.
17:08:41 <glx> TrueBrain: .notice is still wrong
17:09:03 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
17:09:34 <TrueBrain> paste.openttd.org is the only one left on the old server .. we need an alternative for that badly :p
17:11:08 <glx> btw I don't know if svn maillist is down or if the latest commit was too big
17:11:09 <DaleStan> I don't think the GRF should be allowed to override the users preferences, but it should follow the users preferences -- If rail and monorail have different properties for their models, then the tracks that are like rail should have the rail acceleration properties, and the tracks that are like monorail should have the monorail acceleration properties.
17:12:25 <glx> (probably too big commit as it contains lang update)
17:12:26 <peter1138> So we need to allow 3 options, normal, monorail and maglev
17:13:17 <DaleStan> That's what I think, anyway. Other than that, everything else looks good, at least to the extent specified.
17:16:10 <TrueBrain> glx: too big, I received it ;)
17:16:20 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: ever noticed the amount of spam? :p
17:16:36 <Digitalfox> TrueBrain oh yeah.
17:18:16 <peter1138> Hmm, I guess that wants to be a separate property.
17:20:50 <hylje> arbitrary properties for railtypes, magically map some properties to old properties
17:23:25 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
17:25:36 <peter1138> DaleStan, property 15.
17:33:12 <DaleStan> Thanks. That looks good, I think. We'll have to do a little work with the handling of curves/mountains, since I forgot that it shifts to normal/electrified/unified if elrails is on, but changing that to "if elrails is on and newroutes is off" shouldn't be an issue.
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17:41:22 <nicfer> hmmm how hard would be simulate one core from a multi core processor for OTTD?
17:42:23 <nicfer> because actually a dual core 1.6 processor will be slower than my 2.4ghz celeron
17:42:38 <Belugas> nicfer, OpenTTd does use only one core (apart when saving, but that's something else)
17:42:55 <glx> Belugas: and when generating map
17:42:58 <peter1138> nicfer, in fact, it won't.
17:43:28 <peter1138> It's not just about clock speed...
17:43:29 <nicfer> I mean, something like emulating a single-core processor from a multi core one
17:44:12 <Noldo> mmm, how would you do that exactly?
17:46:27 <Bergee> do you mean force a specific program to only run on one of the cores and ignore the others?
17:46:46 <nicfer> no, I mean using two cores as one
17:48:00 <Bergee> write a virtual machine *shrug*
17:48:28 <Bergee> but it's probably not going to be any better than just using a single core in reality and ignoring the second core
17:48:40 <nicfer> then it's time to do a parallel proyect to openttd targeting higher end pcs
17:49:06 <Bergee> but your assumption that a 1.6ghz dual core processor is slower than a 2.4 ghz celeron isn't necessarily accurate
17:49:24 <peter1138> But if you think a 2.4 GHz Celeron will beat a 1.6 GHz Core 2 Duo you're mistaken.
17:50:25 <nicfer> without the extra core not
17:51:14 <Bergee> even if you restrict whatever you're running to using a single core on the core 2 duo
17:51:36 <Bergee> you're assuming that every instruction takes the same number of clock cycles on each processor (and that the instruction sets are exactly the same)
17:51:42 <Bergee> neither of those are the case
17:52:06 <Bergee> like peter1138 said, there's more to it than clock speed
17:53:17 <nicfer> then a 1.6ghz atom is faster than my old celeron?
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17:55:47 <Bergee> it might be, how does this relate to openttd though?
17:58:16 <Belugas> that has been discussed long and large. multithreading of Open (same for Patch) would just mean rewriting the whole system. IF anyone is willing to do that, fine, but i'm sure all the current devs have more interesting projects to run apart THAT
17:59:53 <Bergee> not sure why, openttd takes almost no processor time under normal speed anyway
18:00:36 <Bergee> so I don't see where the huge benefit would be, but heh :P
18:17:14 <Noldo> well, it's a challenge and who doesn't like challenges ;)
18:22:08 * peter1138 ponders reducing the action 3 stuff down a bit, and letting the GRF handle snow/desert variations.
18:22:23 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
18:22:31 <peter1138> When using overlays, it's not so critical that there are different sprites.
18:24:27 <frosch123> you could also add a snow variable and call the action3 two times with different values in the variable to pre-render the sprites
18:29:22 <peter1138> I'm not pre-rendering anything.
18:29:31 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
18:37:20 <Yorick> could something be implemented to mark the end of an rcon response?
18:41:55 <Rubidium> why would that be needed?
18:42:22 <Rubidium> as I said many times... if you want to control your server remotely it shouldn't be done as a client but over some management interface
18:42:37 <Rubidium> would solve that problem too
18:43:59 <Rubidium> [repeat] as I said many times... if you want to control your server remotely it shouldn't be done as a client but over some management interface
18:45:09 <Yorick> yes, the problem is that the management interface is not there
18:45:54 <Yorick> and just opening a connection to a server could be seen as some management interface, just send the rcon packet, wait for response and diconnect
18:45:55 *** FauxFaux has joined #openttd
18:49:12 <Rubidium> if "random noise" and "undefined interface" means part of a management interface, then yes
18:50:16 <Yorick> why "random noise" if it isn't so random?
18:50:37 <Rubidium> possible chat messages
18:51:15 <Yorick> possible chat messages are not random?
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18:55:47 <Digitalfox> " Plane Speed factor " -> before a option was available to choose the speed, what was the speed in trunk ?
18:57:14 <Digitalfox> peter1138 yes, but i meant after the fisrt speed change was done but before the speed option..
18:57:38 <Digitalfox> Where planes fly at the real speed :)
18:58:05 <Brianetta> Sacro: Not stopping to pay off you loan?
18:58:14 <Sacro> Brianetta: isn't it paid off?
18:58:25 <Digitalfox> I thought it was 1/1, but I just realized one helicopter flys faster than a 747 in the game :p
18:58:32 <Brianetta> you're owing £200,000
19:00:09 <peter1138> Hmm, I'm missing GRVTS 1.3...
19:02:24 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
19:02:30 <peter1138> Erk, missing features!
19:09:06 *** LilDood has joined #openttd
19:12:37 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14123 /trunk/src/table/unmovable_land.h: -Codechange: a few magical number to sprite name conversions
19:17:49 <Progman> peter1138: is there a place to post bugs for cargodest?
19:19:13 <Progman> the first train view windows isn't changed for cargodest, is it?
19:21:20 <rortom> we are searching translators for RoR :\
19:23:15 <rortom> like chinese and everything
19:24:29 <Yorick> how many strings does it contain?
19:26:25 <peter1138> First train view window?
19:27:01 <Progman> peter1138: the train view you see first
19:27:35 <Wolf01> Warning: dir(nightly) [function.dir]: failed to open dir: No such file or directory in /var/www/www.openttd.org/htdocs/includes/nightly.inc.php on line 22 :(
19:27:46 <Progman> hmm, but the listing is weird
19:28:07 <peter1138> Looks normal to me.
19:28:26 <Progman> while unloading: "30 pax from Foo" -> "26 pax from Bar" -> "14 pax from Bla" -> "7 pax from Bli" -> "Empty"
19:28:44 <peter1138> Yeah, the source is taken from the first cargo packet.
19:28:58 <Progman> so there were 30+26+14+7 pax in a 30 sized waggon
19:29:46 <Bergee> no he's saying there were 30 pax, and the first one was from Foo (maybe the first four)
19:29:58 <Progman> maybe comma seperated per waggon
19:30:16 <Progman> like "4 pax from Foo, 12 pax from Bla, ...."
19:30:17 <Bergee> and he's saying it displays the source as coming from the first thing
19:30:45 <peter1138> Progman, not really enough space
19:30:56 <peter1138> Total cargo will get the detail listing.
19:31:03 <Bergee> maybe you could just say from "multiple" or something?
19:31:24 <peter1138> It would say multiple for nearly everything ;)
19:31:26 <Bergee> so that you know to look at total cargo if you actually care
19:31:31 *** xerxes is now known as shodan
19:31:45 <Bergee> fair enough I guess heh
19:32:12 <peter1138> I wouldn't count on it.
19:32:36 <peter1138> Use the file in the source.
19:32:45 <Bergee> I was contemplating reviving the ttdpatch thing for abadoning roads if they sit unused
19:32:51 <Progman> btw., the tree view is awesome ;)
19:33:00 <peter1138> I've not seen the tree view.
19:33:22 <Progman> you didn't? ... ou yeah, celestar did.. *remember*
19:33:26 <Rubidium> Bergee: you can reasonably trust that whatever is on the wiki is outdated or erroneous
19:34:09 <Bergee> that is what I kinda guessed though after reading through it
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19:45:04 <Yorick> what do the console colors mean?
19:45:19 <Belugas> Bergee, the url for wiki map's usage? VERY NOT up to date
19:45:28 <Belugas> and i do not feel like doing it
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19:46:18 <Bergee> I just did as peter1138 said and read the HTML file from the source
19:46:35 <Bergee> unfortunately it contained bad news, mainly there's no free room in the map array for roads heh
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19:50:46 <Belugas> well... that is not TOTALY true, though
19:50:59 <Bergee> makes it harder to add something to expire unused roads from ownership, etc
19:51:52 *** Pikka|tf2 is now known as Pikka
19:52:02 <Bergee> well the file seems to suggest that there might be 3 bits free in m1, maybe :P
19:53:27 <Belugas> i was more looking at m2
19:53:44 <Belugas> the pool of towns is maxed at 8000
19:53:57 <Bergee> Belugas, ah well it just marked all of them as flat out used heh :P
19:54:13 <Belugas> so... with 16 bits, i think there are a few space usable
19:54:14 <Bergee> fjb, if an AI builds a road and destroys the route
19:54:23 <Bergee> (or if a player does the same thing)
19:54:32 <Bergee> they just own the roads forever
19:54:36 <frosch123> Bergee: if you are in luck m2 is only used when the road is already owned by a town
19:54:51 <Bergee> and since it costs money to destroy the roads, no one ever does
19:55:08 <Bergee> which means after a long period of time the map ends up cluttered with a crapload of old roads :P
19:55:43 <Bergee> indeed frosch123 and Belugas
19:55:56 <fjb> How do you map a road to a route?
19:56:26 <Bergee> you don't, but you know when a player's road vehicle drives over a road
19:56:50 <Bergee> and if that stops happening for x period of time (years), then you can probably declare the road unused
19:57:26 <fjb> There may be a long time without a vehicle using the the road without making the road unused (backup route etc).
19:58:13 <Bergee> but if you know going in if the road isn't used every 5 years
19:58:17 <Bergee> that someone will be able to bulldoze it
19:58:23 <Bergee> (5 years was drawn out of a hat)
19:58:24 <fjb> I would not like my backups get blown away.
19:58:35 <Bergee> then you'd probably be more careful
19:58:46 <Bergee> but realistically speaking fjb, this is mostly a problem with the AI
19:59:00 <Bergee> because they just destroy the stations and leave the roads
19:59:51 <fjb> Or another player denies me access to that road just long enough and he can buldoze it.
20:00:52 <Bergee> 5 years of denying you access? by doing what?
20:01:21 <fjb> Traffic jams, parked trains, there are many ways.
20:01:37 <Bergee> sure, so ways that are already uh... cheap :P
20:01:54 <Bergee> and most people would consider unsportsmanlike
20:02:07 <fjb> Parking trains are cheap.
20:02:36 <fjb> Sure, not very sportsmanlike, but still effective.
20:02:56 <Bergee> I agree, but I mean, you're worrying about someone exploiting something that already requires them to be shitty in the first place
20:03:50 <Bergee> nothing saying a multiplayer server would even want such an option on to be honest
20:04:06 <Bergee> I really was thinking of the AI in the first place, because I think that's why ttdpatch added that option
20:05:01 <fjb> Think about the better AIs possible with the noai branch. They will have the possibility to do all the nasty things.
20:05:49 <Bergee> well that's why I came here, you're doing some of that thinking for me
20:06:57 <Bergee> but if someone blocks the route off for 5 years, you're already going to have sold road vehicles off anyway
20:07:10 <Bergee> or just sit there losing money? :P
20:07:34 <Bergee> yeah, but that's not what I'm talking about
20:07:53 <Ammler> is boost also needed for playing?
20:08:01 <fjb> Parking the road vehicles in a depot. Or waiting for a possibility to get around that jam.
20:08:04 <Ammler> not just for compiling cargo dest?
20:08:59 <fjb> That is the future of AI. That AI buys a lot of busses. If everything jams it sell some busses, then after some time it buys new busses.
20:14:28 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
20:15:36 <Ammler> currently at our cargo dest testgame...
20:16:21 <Rubidium> then it got most likely broken in cargo dest
20:17:11 <Rubidium> signals didn't change the orders
20:20:23 <Bergee> fjb, I was thinking more like
20:21:35 <Bergee> those being mostly owned by two AIs and a little bit of the town, none of them are at all used any longer
20:22:52 <fjb> Yes, but disowning the roads can easily abused. And it is a hotfix for a problem that will go away when the noai branch gets merged to trunk (which will not be anytime soon but that branch makes great progress).
20:23:46 <Bergee> I don't agree with easily, so much so as, requires abusing other things first in order to abuse that
20:24:10 <Bergee> and well uh, don't do that, make it against the rules, etc :P
20:27:22 <Yorick> I had FS#2241 again :o
20:30:34 <Ammler> we "workedaround" desync of later joining player with loading server new
20:31:47 <Ammler> Yorick: cargo dest game?
20:32:31 <Ammler> Yorick: I meant, do you have that bug in cargo dest game?
20:32:48 <Yorick> I discovered it in 0.6
20:34:38 <Yorick> I don't forget my ass...
20:35:16 <Ammler> I meant with "again" a bug which was solved but applies again...
20:39:32 *** Dred_furst` has joined #openttd
20:39:36 *** Wolfolo|AWAY has joined #openttd
20:39:39 * peter1138 ponders fixing signals to obey rail type ;)
20:43:42 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2863
20:43:44 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
20:56:40 <Belugas> good night, me goes home
21:00:02 * Sacro is now playing: Renee And Renato - Save Your Love
21:00:46 <Wolf01> do you want to help me developing a new patch?
21:02:10 <Sacro> I'm coding something for SimSig
21:02:40 <Wolf01> I'm doing drag&drop roadstops
21:03:35 <Wolf01> and sound options to enable and disable sounds like I did with transparency
21:05:52 <Wolf01> the first one is half done, it needs some tweaking, the second one is giving me some troubles
21:20:30 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
21:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> these intartubes are evading little beasts
21:23:05 * Prof_Frink finds the other version
21:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you talk too much... my buffer doesn't even cover the whole day...
21:23:39 <peter1138> Clearly you should not go away.
21:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, considering that it even missed logging 3 hours...
21:26:34 <Prof_Frink> Bah, recreantview seems to be broken
21:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> file downloads here...
21:29:12 <Prof_Frink> Yeah, it's the site that's broken - direct links work fine
21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i love drag and drop... i can click on the URL in Konversation, and drag it to an open Konqueror window, and it starts downloading
21:31:03 <Prof_Frink> I love drag and drop... I can drag an mp3 file from an audio cd to my ipod.
21:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i can drag it from the Konqueror window to the Amarok icon in the task bar
21:32:08 <Prof_Frink> Let's face it. Kio is le awesome.
21:33:26 *** xerxes is now known as shodan
21:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and then amarok (semi-)automatically downloads the text to the song ;)
21:49:13 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
21:50:01 <Brianetta> Is there any way to stop getting offers of new vehicles?
21:50:12 <Brianetta> They're really in-your-face when trying to build
21:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, accept one, and then don't build it for a year
21:51:26 <Brianetta> "Yes" "No" "F*** off you annoying t*** and stop bothering me"
21:51:51 <Brianetta> Hopefully I only have another 12 months of these
21:52:02 <Celestar> peter1138: I just managed to crash a server via rcon :P
21:52:05 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
21:52:06 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
21:53:36 <Celestar> but produce a 2-minute(!!) delay (=
21:55:24 <Eddi|zuHause> type that into bash ;)
21:55:35 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: no I mean the openttd dediserver(=
21:57:27 <glx> it's quite silly to allow : as function name
21:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know whose brilliant idea was that ;)
21:59:19 <Sacro> def get_tomorrow_date():
21:59:24 <Sacro> [22:58] * Amixbook has quit (Ping time
21:59:57 <Sacro> def get_tomorrow_date():
21:59:57 <Sacro> return time.localtime()
22:00:03 <Sacro> i need to use this code in a project
22:02:29 <Celestar> peter1138: you around?
22:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> planetmaker: but actually I could use some single-player testers as well. <- the only obvious things i can find is the balancing of the destination choosing and the route choosing. another thing was an autoreplace bug which i assume has been fixed already.
22:05:09 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the balancing will be configurable a bit
22:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> basically i think the bias on station size is not working correctly. the local trains are always leaving the city full and arriving empty
22:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and the routing bit is about that the people insist on taking the express train and not distribute over the local train
22:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so i need too many express trains
22:07:20 <fjb> One of my Airbus' prefered to be a Groundbus. :(
22:07:50 <Prof_Frink> groundintofinedustbus?
22:08:15 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah I know of these issues but I think they will be addressed in v2
22:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm just telling...
22:08:57 <Celestar> the second issue is easy to solve, but if we want non-digital route choosing it'll cost (quite) a bit of CPU possibly
22:09:09 <Celestar> but we've not managed to desync the game
22:09:17 * Prof_Frink refits a bus to carry any form of breakfast food.
22:09:31 <Prof_Frink> That's right, it's a Universal Cereal Bus.
22:09:32 <Celestar> even with disabling and enabling the routing system mid-game or even a manual removal of the whole routing system on the server
22:12:36 <Celestar> is Rubidium around? (=
22:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well. the other obvious problem, the amount of passengers generated i "fixed" locally :)
22:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's the problem of distributing the income on the vehicles
22:15:24 <Celestar> just disable TTRS3 and it's decent (=
22:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the last vehicle in the chain almost always operates at a loss
22:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are two ways to solve that: don't make "transfers" at a station, but instead create a new cargopacket (so the waiting time at the station wouldn't be taken into account)
22:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> or tune down the "transfer credit" (i reduced it by 30%)
22:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so the final payment favours the last vehicle
22:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the 30% seem to work quite well
22:17:59 <Celestar> I had that in trunk once
22:18:16 <Celestar> because it supposedly made "no sense"
22:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember that
22:19:19 <Celestar> I'm not going to browse through the logs for it
22:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: no, because that was built with yapp in mind
22:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i built mine without any PBS in sight
22:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem was not the path blocking part
22:21:22 <fjb> But try to make something like that without YAPP. It will deadlock.
22:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but that i needed two separate "layers" of presignals
22:22:06 <fjb> Still it would not be usable without YAPP.
22:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> one from the main line to the wood station, and one from the branch line to the passenger station
22:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i ended up combo-signalling the passenger route, because that was more common to deadlock
22:23:36 <Celestar> there are things you cannot build without yapp
22:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the cargo one i balanced by trying to limit the number of trains arriving
22:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> after that, when it occasionally locked up, i usually got "train is lost" messages by one of the passenger trains turning around
22:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked fairly well, but it needed manual input
22:26:02 <fjb> Thats nothing for the "hundred coal mines feeding one power station using maglevs" people.
22:27:17 <Prof_Frink> fjb: And there's a factory and oil refinery and sawmill at the same place as the power station
22:27:59 <fjb> Ofcourse it is. Don't forget the signal at eveery tile.
22:28:05 *** LilDood_ has joined #openttd
22:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't reached the maglev stage in years...
22:28:12 <Prof_Frink> On final approach, yes.
22:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i never ever reached the year 2050 yet
22:29:09 <Prof_Frink> fjb: It's not a real station 'til it can take over a year for a train to escape.
22:30:34 <fjb> I have an idea for the joining distant stations problem.
22:30:50 <fjb> But I'm lacking a bit at C++ skills at the moment.
22:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: wasn't there an update that fixed the missing catenary at the goods station?
22:32:31 <fjb> I habe the latest ISR (0.7.1).
22:34:55 <fjb> I need a way to cross a road with a station.
22:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure peter1138 has a patch for that :p
22:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but honestly, i don't think that'll be possible any time soon
22:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> road/rail crossings are one of the fullest tiles of all
22:37:41 <Rubidium> Celestar: I'm kinda around
22:37:56 <fjb> Just a station without a real crossing, just a station that has some tracks of the other side of the road would be enough.
22:38:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: around what?
22:38:03 <Rubidium> Celestar: you know your way around in Solaris?
22:38:21 <TrueBrain> wasn't Celestar who supplied me with sunos files?
22:38:26 * fjb knows a way around Solaris.
22:38:32 <Celestar> Rubidium: We are network testing cargodest with ottdcoop. No desyncs in the routing system no matter how hard I try. I just managed to freeze the server for two minutes using rcon.
22:38:45 <Celestar> Rubidium: performance is reasonable too
22:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Ah, that kind of "cross"... that should be easy with drive through stops usually
22:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's a competitor's road
22:39:22 <Rubidium> Celestar: does 'a little' mean you can make it compile OpenTTD?
22:39:24 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Not when I don't own that road.
22:39:35 <Rubidium> and that you can install it?
22:39:50 <Celestar> I have it on a VM @ office
22:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, occasionally the distant-join-station thing comes in handy
22:40:32 <TrueBrain> "file: could not find any magic files!" <- you got to love errors ;)
22:40:55 <Brianetta> What I wish I could do
22:41:08 <Brianetta> is choose my colour scheme per train
22:41:19 <Brianetta> Gordon would be red
22:41:29 <Rubidium> Celestar: rather a clean one made in virtualbox with just the bare essentials (and support for VirtualBox's shared directory)
22:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: use the player cheat ;)
22:41:40 <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll see what I can do tomorrow, k?
22:41:47 <Brianetta> peter1138: It would change the saved game and get thrown out
22:41:49 <Rubidium> because I can't get my head around making it
22:42:04 <Rubidium> I completely fail in installing what is needed
22:42:06 <Brianetta> Eddi: I'm in multiplayer
22:42:15 <fjb> Yes, but the distant join stations patch has the possible race condition with the stations list. But you could work around that if you would not build a list but pick the station like you do when adding orders.
22:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's unfortunate :)
22:42:25 <Celestar> Rubidium: ok. tomorrow. I'm drunk :P
22:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: yes, the station id must be sent in the command, not the index of the list item you clicked on
22:43:57 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Even not using a list at all but chosing the station on the map would be best.
22:44:33 <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium: if you could have a look at LoadUnloadStation. We might want to store cargo_left somehow that we don't have to rebuild it all the time. it's the slowest function in the whole routing system by at least one order of magnitute. and I'd like your expertise on how to do this best.
22:44:42 <Celestar> I gotta sleep. Good night.
22:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't like that...
22:45:24 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: A list may always be out of sync.
22:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it doesn't matter if the list is client side
22:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then the command would only fail if the station disappeared
22:46:27 <fjb> But the list would not show newly appearing stations.
22:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> upon station change you could invalidate the window
22:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and trigger a rebuild of the list
22:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not much different than availability of airport (or newstation) types depending on date
22:48:44 <fjb> But chosing on the map is way more intuitive than comparing a list of station names.
22:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or selecting to build a bridge, and a competitor blocking the way
22:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is handled in any way by the gui
23:16:02 <FauxFaux> Mmm, why must the estimation for land editing costs be so bad? Also, why is it more expensive (by a rediculously small ammount) to use the level tool than doing it by hand?
23:19:22 <DaleStan> FauxFaux: The first is probably a but, but the second is obviously that you're paying for convenience.
23:45:42 <FauxFaux> Heh DaleStan. Sorry, got a little distracted. /me -> have a closer look at the source.
continue to next day ⏵
