IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-10
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00:05:45 <doc|home> hmmm, I have a station which is one block away from a port. The port has a lot of oil but the train's not taking it. I think it used to. What am I missing?
00:08:54 <glx> they are not the same station
00:09:10 <doc|home> I know, but they used to be able to pick up from close by
00:09:35 <doc|home> ok, so, how do I get that to work without dumping the oil?
00:09:58 <glx> delete the train station, rebuild it near the dock and update train orders
00:10:02 <doc|home> hmmm, could k.... yeah
00:15:31 <nicfer> there is no way to build locks on the scenario editor?
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01:11:00 <doc|home> until they get stuck
01:20:02 <doc|home> I know have a dead tram and it's blocking the road for road traffic too, including my competitor's buses :)
01:25:03 <doc|home> also annoying is not being able to delete track on a road owned by a competitor
01:25:50 <KurtKraut> doc|home, in such situation we can realise how important a goverment is in the real world... to deal with such thing
01:27:42 <doc|home> I hope you're being sarcastic :)
01:27:51 <KurtKraut> doc|home, no, I'm not.
01:28:08 <doc|home> in that case, i've to go to something over here ---->
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02:15:14 <Belugas> you search for the tabs of one song, and all you find are just copies of the same tab copied all over the place
02:15:25 <Belugas> and i KNOW it is wrong
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04:56:32 <Fennec> mountaintops sure are windy
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06:48:15 <ashaw> i seem to be haing a problem with this newGRF
06:49:01 <ashaw> 1 * 8 08 06 "AS" 01 01 00 00
06:49:01 <ashaw> 2 * 53 00 00 01 01 FF 08 B1 00 \w1920/01/01 02 00 03 FF 04 FF 05 00 06 07 07 05 08 01 09 00 80 0B 20 4E 0D 01 0E 36 4C 00 00 13 00 16 01 17 01 18 01 19 08 1F FF 20 01 27 01
06:49:01 <ashaw> 3 * 13 04 00 01 01 FF 08 B1 4c 6f 67 69 63 00
06:49:01 <ashaw> 5 data\sprites/new.pcx 18 8 01 18 8 -3 -10
06:49:03 <ashaw> 6 data\sprites/new.pcx 34 8 09 14 20 -14 -6
06:49:03 <ashaw> 7 data\sprites/new.pcx 66 8 01 12 28 -14 -6
06:49:05 <ashaw> 8 data\sprites/new.pcx 114 8 09 16 20 -4 -8
06:49:05 <ashaw> 9 data\sprites/new.pcx 146 8 01 18 8 -3 -10
06:49:07 <ashaw> 10 data\sprites/new.pcx 162 8 09 16 20 -14 -7
06:49:07 <ashaw> 11 data\sprites/new.pcx 194 8 01 12 28 -14 -6
06:49:09 <ashaw> 12 data\sprites/new.pcx 242 8 09 14 20 -4 -6
06:49:09 <ashaw> 13 * 9 02 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00
06:49:11 <ashaw> 14 * 9 03 00 01 FF 08 B1 00 00 00
06:49:50 <ashaw> what? i do not understand
06:51:04 <Fennec> a pastebin is a site which allows one to paste in text. it will the retain the text for a period of time, and will provide a URL on the Internets where that text can be accessed. As such, it is common if people have 14-line thingies to paste, that they find a pastebin and paste instead a 1-line URL. :)
06:51:41 <Fennec> anyway. hence 'eek'. many lines. :) not so much an issue here as it is elsewhere, I guess.
06:51:41 <ashaw> oh, do you know where one of these is?
06:51:59 <ashaw> i am reletively new to IRC
06:56:08 <ashaw> anyway do you know why this will not work.
06:56:16 <Fennec> also much easier to copy-paste from pastebin than from IRC (your nickname isn't mixed in with it)
06:59:06 <Fennec> anyway I honestly have no idea since I'm not really into development of such things at allllll (yet). sorry :)
07:00:46 <ashaw> ok do you know where i should look
07:02:22 <Fennec> here :) just wait around for someone more useful than I
07:34:16 <ashaw> looking hello do you know about newgrf
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07:51:58 <Ammler> ashaw: run nforenum over it first
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08:10:29 <peter1138> ashaw, here's a tip. Comment your NFO.
08:10:59 <peter1138> Split lines up into logical blocks.
08:11:41 <doc|home> when you buy 75% of the shares of a competitor, do you take 75% of their income? or what's the point of that if not?
08:13:20 <peter1138> No, you just get lots of money when you sell if their company value has gone up.
08:14:23 <doc|home> you should get dividends :)
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08:21:35 <peter1138> There have been some proposals for changing shares.
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08:34:07 <Ammler> edit function in fs would be helpful :-)
08:34:41 <frosch123> there is an edit function, just that ordinary users do not have the rights to use it :p
08:36:29 <Ammler> FS#2215 is tested with r14032
08:37:11 <Rubidium> is that suburban renewal set 0.1?
08:37:30 <Rubidium> then it's a flawed newgrf
08:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, flawed newgrfs should not be able to trigger asserts
08:40:39 <Rubidium> yeah I know... but...
08:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, they should error out much sooner
08:41:15 <Rubidium> the fix for this flawed newgrf is mutual exclusive with a fix for another flaw in a newgrf that also causes assertions AND desyncs
08:43:09 <Rubidium> and there's already a 0.11 or so that has the problem solved
08:46:29 <Ammler> Rubidium: just checking that
08:47:56 <Rubidium> the cause is by the way that the newgrfs tells that a house is the southern part of a 2x2 building when it's a 1x1 building
08:48:43 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, just compile without asserts ;)
08:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> _I_ did not get the error ;)
08:49:14 <peter1138> Ammler, just compile without asserts ;)
08:49:15 <Ammler> indeed, 0.11 don't assert anymore
08:50:38 <peter1138> Rubidium, was it me who made all cargo properties be loaded in the reservation stage?
08:50:40 <Ammler> hehe, time is april, not august
08:50:52 <Ammler> you can delete the FS post, if you like :-)
08:51:21 <Rubidium> peter1138: don't know
08:51:46 <peter1138> I can't remember why all of it is loaded there :o
08:52:11 <frosch123> because the specs say so?
08:52:36 <Ammler> I should really remember the alck of edit rights... :-)
08:52:42 <frosch123> cargos shall be available to all grfs during activation independent of their loading order
08:53:01 <Ammler> I like to save from time to time to not lose the data
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08:56:33 <peter1138> I have a similar problem with my railtypes WIP.
08:57:13 <peter1138> But I think I can get away with just loading the labels in the reservation stage.
08:57:23 <Alberth> Anybody wanting to examine this debug output further? "dbg: [ms] Vehicle 4 (index 519) arrived at wrong stop". I get it from a save game I downloaded from the forums. No idea what it means.
08:57:41 <peter1138> But I also need the labels within the railtype property bit, for specifying powered/compatible types.
08:58:13 <peter1138> Alberth, it went to a road stop that it hadn't reserved.
08:58:42 <frosch123> Alberth: most likely drive through issue
08:59:00 <Rubidium> peter1138: is it easily extendable to be used for road/tram too?
08:59:07 <frosch123> i.e. the vehicle decides for a free slot of one roadstop, but to get there it needs to drive though another stop
09:00:51 <Alberth> Well, there are a lot of vehicles in the game but only this message, so it may be nice to use this save game for debugging. Should I save it somewhere, or is it not that important?
09:00:59 <peter1138> I was thinking of doing them separately, as they do behave differently.
09:01:37 <peter1138> i.e. different arrangement of sprites, different map storage... etc.
09:01:54 <peter1138> There's no way to have more than 3 road types is there?
09:01:58 <frosch123> Alberth: Check if the wrong stop is a drive through stop and if other stops can only be reached through that stop
09:02:43 <Alberth> ok, how does one find Vehicle 4 at index 519?
09:03:16 <frosch123> peter1138: As I doubt that there will be ever a third road type that would be buildable together with normal road and tram on a single tile, I would suggest to remove the third roadtype and instead add a subtype for road and tram
09:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: typically, it's when a newly loaded grf replaces busses with trams
09:03:38 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, that is possible too.
09:03:53 <Rubidium> peter1138: about the 3 roadtypes is "trueish"
09:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then the bus can go to a tram-only stop
09:04:31 <Rubidium> either 3 fully overlayable roadtypes or 5 different road-roadtypes and 4 different tram-roadtypes where you can have at most 1 road-roadtype and 1 tram-roadtype on a tile
09:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like several road types, especially if they come with speed limits
09:05:09 <peter1138> Does the second type *need* to be tram?
09:05:32 <peter1138> You could have road bits 1, road bits 2, road type 1, road type 2.
09:06:00 <peter1138> Road type 1 could end up being tram if that's the only thing built.
09:06:17 <peter1138> That might get complicated but is probably the most flexible.
09:06:17 <frosch123> note that OWNER_TOWN can only be stored for road type 1 (currently)
09:06:47 * Rubidium is off for breakfast
09:06:55 <peter1138> Anyway, should this be merged with my railtype functionality or should it be separate?
09:07:11 <peter1138> I'm edging for separate, as apart from being a transport type that vehicles go on, they're not that similar.
09:07:49 <peter1138> I guess we don't even have a roadtypeinfo struct...
09:08:30 <peter1138> How many road sprites are there for normal landscape? For rail we have 26 sprites, plus another 8 sprites for tunnels.
09:09:23 <frosch123> 4 slopes plus 15 flat tiles = 19 ?
09:10:08 <frosch123> plus various 'roadside's
09:10:16 <frosch123> i.e. lights/trees...
09:10:31 <peter1138> Yeah, there is that too.
09:10:50 <frosch123> yup, the roadsides make it quite different
09:11:08 <frosch123> I guess you are not planning to include rail-fence support
09:11:17 <peter1138> I wasn't, but I could.
09:11:48 <peter1138> It would be a good idea actually, just for allowing more options.
09:12:08 <peter1138> Hmm, 5 cursors for rail, 3 cursors for road
09:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> autoroad needs a highlighting mechanism like autorail
09:12:42 <peter1138> And depots to consider...
09:12:57 <peter1138> Stations, level crossings and bridges are quite cumbersome.
09:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> roads could use separation from the roadsides
09:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> like "road front", "road lane", "road middle", "road other lane", "road back"
09:14:34 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, problem is that's 5 sprites to draw instead of 1.
09:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it'd be a good way towards flexibility
09:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. road grf authors won't need to care for the road sides (pavement, trees, road signs/traffic lights etc.)
09:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or it would allow tram lines with middle pylons
09:17:23 <frosch123> peter1138: The roadsided are already drawn separately
09:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, a similar system could be used for bridges
09:18:18 <peter1138> frosch123, the stuff on them, yes.
09:18:36 <peter1138> I have no idea how to handle level crossings yet :o
09:18:59 <frosch123> both rail and road have to provide a sprite, which will be overlayed
09:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> separate rail drawing from road drawing... or do you mean map-space-wise?
09:19:18 <peter1138> Bridges are awkward, but we can add another *6* sprites to be used as the surface of the bridge.
09:19:23 <frosch123> you can also do it the smatz-way and precompute the overlayed sprites and store them somewhere
09:19:30 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: drawing wise.
09:20:08 <peter1138> Hmm, yes, level crossings: get road sprite, get rail overlay sprite...
09:20:12 <peter1138> What about the lights?
09:20:30 <peter1138> They come from the roadside style at the moment.
09:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> lights need to be tall objects, like roadside trees or catenary pylons
09:20:39 <frosch123> the artists always want to draw barring, but they need real bounding boxes
09:20:53 <frosch123> as they need to be drawn in front of vehicles
09:21:05 <peter1138> GRF specified bounding boxes are not necessary though.
09:21:23 <peter1138> We can say it will always be two sprites either side of the track at here and here.
09:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> bars must be drawn behind the waiting bus, but in front of the train, lights must be drawn before any vehicle
09:21:50 <peter1138> We're way ahead of you ;)
09:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and vice versa for the opposite side
09:22:11 <peter1138> That works for snow, I don't know how well that would work for rail/road.
09:22:25 <peter1138> However, as I'd like to have an 'overlay' option anyway, it probably isn't necessary.
09:22:50 <peter1138> Where *all* track is overlayed on the landscape ground sprite.
09:23:10 <frosch123> I meant it wrt. to the different ground sprites. I.e. preocmpute the result of grass with the road-overlay etc
09:25:01 <peter1138> Oh, the web service are down again? :(
09:28:03 <Wolf01> peter1138, what about composing the sprite and then reuse it where needed? this approach should avoid multiple drawing of one tile with more overlays
09:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that will only work for flat tiles anywa
09:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. not for crossing bars, trees, pylons
09:32:21 <peter1138> Wolf01, possible. I'd like to avoid that kind of magic if possible, though.
09:32:36 <Wolf01> yes, I meant track/road tiles, accessories will remain accessories
09:32:44 <peter1138> And current I'm using an Action3/2/1 chain, so technically it might be possible to have... variations!
09:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> random bits on the map ;)
09:34:56 <peter1138> Mainly I'm using Action3/2/1 as it's the easiest way of adding sprites. GRM is horrible...
09:35:50 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: more pseudorandom bits on the map ;)
09:36:12 <Rubidium> one random number for the whole map and the random bits generated from the tile index and that random number
09:36:13 <frosch123> I guess pseudo-randombits (only depending on tileindex and game seed; i.e. do not have to be stored in the map array) would be enough
09:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> return 4; // chosen by fair dice roll, guaranteed to be random
09:36:32 <frosch123> lol, two apes - one thought
09:37:12 <Rubidium> Alberth: what AI made that marvel of engineering and map reading?
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09:41:37 <Alberth> No idea, I was also wondering how it got there. The station that is in the way also of the same AI (I added the green signs after destroying a few buildings to get a clear view). Given that the guy that made the save game didn't have any road vehicles, I don't understand how a piece of road in a city can get lost.
09:42:13 <Rubidium> so it's an old savegame?
09:46:22 <ashaw> hello i have worked more on my newgrf and i do not understand the error i get
09:46:34 <ashaw> could you help me interperet it.
09:47:35 <Rubidium> the warning is for the next line
09:49:06 <Rubidium> you say you want to replace 1 property of 1 train, but it looks like you want to replace much more
09:49:24 <frosch123> ashaw: looks like you are missing a new line and '-1 *'
09:50:03 <frosch123> hmm no, I though it looked like a varaction2 that startet there
09:56:10 <ashaw> i want it to be fast with good acceleration
09:56:23 <ashaw> but not be able to cary any cargo
09:57:57 <ashaw> I was trying to make a new train but just simple for now
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10:03:49 <DJNekkid> you need to specify how many properties you changed ...
10:04:24 <DJNekkid> -1 * 0 00 00 <number> 01 <id> <prop 1> <prop 2> ... <prop n>
10:04:28 <DJNekkid> if that was understandable
10:05:28 <DJNekkid> and you can use \w and \b for the values
10:05:44 <DJNekkid> much easier to read then the little endian word values
10:05:53 <DJNekkid> as well as you dont have to hexconvert stuff
10:06:05 <DJNekkid> -1 * 0 00 00 \b28 01 \b*10502 00 \w1999-01-01 02 05 03 \b20 04 \b255 05 00 06 07 07 \b20 08 01 09 \w160 0B \w1050 12 FD 13 00 14 \b110 15 00 16 \b52 17 \b46 19 28 1A \b*162 1B \w1050 1C 00 1F \b68 20 20 22 30 27 06 28 \w3 29 \w1016 0E \dx4c30 0D \b107
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10:36:31 * peter1138 is now edging towards using hardwood or softwood planks for desk building.
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10:39:28 <peter1138> DJNekkid, and you too, split the lines up!
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10:46:56 <ashaw> what is the tractive effort?
10:51:04 <De_Ghost> BOTH WOOD ARE AWSOME
10:51:14 <De_Ghost> but hard is better so you don't scratch it
10:52:15 <DJNekkid> peter1138: i know i should, but i didnt know i could do it when i started nfo'ing, and i just heavent gotten around to do it afterwards :)
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10:53:20 <peter1138> De_Ghost, originally the idea was to use MDF...
10:53:21 <DJNekkid> and 1 prop per line dont work either... i guess i could split it up to "dates/year-values" "physics", "costs" and "misc" or something
10:53:43 <peter1138> 1 prop per line doesn't work? Why not?
10:54:07 <peter1138> Yeah, hence me changing the plan.
10:54:10 <peter1138> DJNekkid, works for me.
10:54:22 <peter1138> De_Ghost, but I'm having difficulty finding hardwood :(
10:54:31 * peter1138 ponders a proper timber place.
10:54:48 <peter1138> All the DIY chains just seem to do pine.
10:55:11 <De_Ghost> what you could do is
10:55:23 <ashaw> what is tractive effort?
10:55:35 <peter1138> De_Ghost, carry on :)
10:55:39 <DJNekkid> i did try to do like this, and then remove the //'s that were supposed to give a value
10:56:16 * peter1138 has almost zero knowledge on woodworking things...
10:56:27 <De_Ghost> then how you gonna build it?
10:57:13 <peter1138> I know how to chop wood up and attach it, heh...
10:57:26 <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen Bjani.
10:57:40 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 1 minute, and 46 seconds ago: <Bjarni> ln: not only is it a completely random question.... you are also asking about two movies I have never even heard of
10:57:55 <De_Ghost> well you could just buy a few plank of that green wood and just paint it :D
10:57:58 <Sacro> in comes 1584 new e-mails
10:58:19 <peter1138> De_Ghost, it'll be a fitted desk, so I shall attach supports to the walls, then lay the wood across that, gluing it together and screwing it down.
10:58:38 <peter1138> Then sand and varnish it.
11:00:04 <De_Ghost> why you need a desk?
11:00:34 <De_Ghost> i was just thinking just wall mount my mons :D
11:00:57 <De_Ghost> then anydesk will do :D
11:01:06 <De_Ghost> a nice glass table :)
11:01:49 <peter1138> Cos it's ugly underneath, heh
11:02:26 <peter1138> Computer, cables, 4-ways, and a water pipe too.
11:02:58 <De_Ghost> make a hole in the dry wall and hid all ur cables in it
11:03:36 <peter1138> I don't fancy chiselling away at all the bricks.
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11:09:19 <peter1138> Yes, articulated parts only count as one.
11:09:32 <peter1138> Although it was mostly for autoreplace's benefit.
11:09:33 <frosch123> I.e. do not care about wagon length, nor articulated parts, nor multiheaded parts...
11:09:52 <peter1138> It never cared about individual wagon length.
11:09:53 <frosch123> yeah, autoreplace. That is why I aks
11:10:19 <peter1138> The problem was replacing from a one-part to a multipart vehicle.
11:10:34 <peter1138> It would then be too long and break the rules, heh...
11:10:59 <frosch123> I just wanted to add handling of non-mammoth trains, but noticed that it does not make any sense :s
11:11:40 <peter1138> I think it can be changed to behave as expected if you can make autoreplace work with it ;)
11:12:09 <De_Ghost> no there is a 4" gap between ur dry wall and the bricks
11:13:09 <Ammler> why does mammuttrains need to be a option anyway?
11:13:26 <peter1138> Ammler, don't ask that sort of question... there's no answer :p
11:14:14 <peter1138> De_Ghost, this is a 1950s house. Internal walls are brick, external walls are brick-gap-brick...
11:14:53 <frosch123> Ammler: If you change it from a stupid bool to an integer it might be quite interesting for difficulty settings
11:15:01 <frosch123> i.e. only allow three-tile trains :p
11:17:37 <Ammler> I would know a more usefull switch ;-)
11:20:35 <peter1138> You want to disable PBS? :o
11:21:36 <Ammler> that would be a difficulty setting :)
11:22:21 <Rubidium> and most difficult only two way signals? (no presignals/pbs/oneways)
11:23:35 <Ammler> I guess, there is no nettwork playable version without them?
11:24:20 <Ammler> well, you see still players not using presignals
11:24:36 <Ammler> like screenshots rom Bearnie
11:24:47 <Rubidium> even only two way simple signals
11:25:07 <peter1138> b2b? Business to business?
11:25:09 <Rubidium> and using proper signalling you could then get 100 times more profit out of the same network
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11:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <ashaw> what is the tractive effort? <- the force the engine can transfer to the rails before the wheels slip
11:44:20 <peter1138> Rubidium, did you have any further thoughts as to combining railtype and roadtype support?
11:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> from a user point of view, only the visible interfaces [i.e. the ingame building and usage, and from the other end the newgrf specification actions] need to be similar
11:50:12 <peter1138> I don't know how similar they'll end up.
11:50:29 <peter1138> Roads don't have speed limits, curve penalties, etc...
11:50:44 <peter1138> Nice to see ships getting some NewGRF attention again :D
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11:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ships could use a size classification...
11:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> like ships that are half-tile wide (like road vehicles), ships that are 1-tile wide, and ships that are 2-tile wide (ocean only)
11:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> together with non-overlapping ships
11:53:13 <peter1138> And 'multistop' for docks.
11:53:20 <peter1138> (Which I partially did once)
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11:59:50 <Rubidium> peter1138: I haven't had very much thought into combining rail and roadtypes yet
12:00:26 <Rubidium> but the main point of interest is really the level crossing
12:01:08 <Rubidium> and bridges as those are the things causing the most problems for cross-NewGRF compatability
12:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it could be useful for "elevated" railtypes, like the transrapid track, to have non-blocking road crossings
12:05:39 *** Ammler is now known as ProZone
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12:06:07 <Rubidium> elevated railtypes should be done using freeformed bridges, not a visual hack
12:06:29 <Rubidium> as it's going to flicker horribly when trains and rvs cross at the same time
12:07:27 *** Ammler is now known as ProZone
12:08:07 <Brianetta> boats already do that flickering
12:08:37 <Rubidium> which is why I dislike them
12:08:41 <ashaw> what is the formulae that openttd uses for acceleration
12:09:36 <Rubidium> ashaw: it's arbitrary because the distance and time are arbitrary too
12:10:05 <Rubidium> and there is no "single" acceleration formula
12:10:15 *** ProZone is now known as Ammler
12:10:54 <Brianetta> tiles per tick per tick
12:11:01 <Brianetta> tiles per tick squared
12:11:20 <ashaw> i am trying to figure out how to get the most acceleration out
12:11:34 <ashaw> them absolute max possible
12:11:51 <Brianetta> Get a powerful locomotive, and don't put any wagons on it.
12:11:52 <Rubidium> max everything except weight is my best guess
12:12:39 <ashaw> but what about TE and CF
12:14:24 <ashaw> coefficeant of friction
12:14:53 <ashaw> and there seems to be a ballance between te and mass
12:15:16 <Ammler> maglev has no TE influce
12:16:34 <ashaw> trying to make the perfect train for logic
12:16:54 <ashaw> and have run into the problem of acceleration
12:19:30 <ashaw> you and i have same idea
12:20:12 <Ammler> yeah, I tried with monorail too
12:20:34 <Ammler> that's why I know, that TE has no influence in maglev, but in monorail :-)
12:21:29 <Ammler> bad of course, I like to have a unlimited acceleration
12:21:52 <Ammler> but I do not like maglev tracks
12:22:13 <Ammler> thats why I tried to make a monorail logic train
12:22:48 <Ammler> the grf in the repo is maglev
12:22:56 <ashaw> no there is no unlimited acceleraton
12:23:17 <ashaw> i know this because when you set the speed at 60000
12:23:31 <ashaw> it takes 10 min to speed up
12:24:27 <Ammler> yep, and I speak about MY grf :-)
12:24:38 <Ammler> which has max speed immediiately
12:26:09 <ashaw> and no instant acceleration
12:26:29 <Ammler> 0.2 is the experiment with monorail
12:27:32 <Ammler> hmm, if you have svn brower
12:27:45 <Ammler> you can check older revs of the makegrf
12:29:38 <ashaw> ther seems to be a problem win 0.1
12:38:36 <ashaw> i did but will try again
12:40:28 <ashaw> i did it wil not let me build
12:47:58 <peter1138> Rubidium, okay. I think I have a plan for bridges and the line...
12:49:18 <Sacro> hmm, is yapp in trunk now?
12:49:42 <Sacro> what else happened since the 25/7?
12:49:44 <peter1138> "You should go away more often"
12:51:12 <peter1138> I think the same was said to Yorick, but we meant it...
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13:27:10 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should use flooring wood, as it has a tongue and groove.
13:28:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: version h:565aee
13:30:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:31:14 <peter1138> Hmm, but that comes in only 2m lengths :o
13:55:24 <ln> The Spanish butikkeieren should take the settlement for the day, when he discovered that a coin had the image of the special character Homer Simpson, instead of the Spanish king, Juan Carlos.
13:56:04 <ln> ravøren rørte not the back of the euro coin, which shows europakartet.
13:56:05 <ln> -- I've been offered 20 euros for this coin, "says Martinez.
13:56:23 <Celestar> Rubidium: will check thanks ;)
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14:15:10 <Yorick> DorpsGek is slow/broken, it seems
14:15:58 <Yorick> I added a comment at FS#1890 :)
14:23:59 <frosch123> get an editor that shows whitespace
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14:35:19 <frosch123> I have heard of patches, where the first chunk is already that horribly formatted, that noone bothered reading it further
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14:38:45 <Yorick> frosch123: should I put english.txt somewhat further down?
14:39:17 <glx> Yorick: DorpsGek works correctly, it's just new FS version doesn't have xmlrpc stuff
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14:42:21 <Yorick> frosch123: I can't see any horribly formatted piece
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15:02:51 <Yorick_> eval this.dispatch("msg nickserv identify " + promptPassword("OFTC password:") + " Yorick")
15:03:24 *** Yorick_ is now known as Yorick
15:06:41 <SpComb> hmm... python, this, irc?
15:08:08 <Yorick> that's actually a chatzilla command
15:12:11 <glx> Yorick: identify command just need a password
15:12:37 <Yorick> not if my client discovers my name is already in use and uses another one
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15:49:29 * peter1138 has discovered that 2.7m long planks of wood fit in his car... if I open the glove box.
15:51:21 <Yorick> have you tried opening the glove box, putting the planks in your car and then closing the glove box?
15:52:49 <SpComb> Yorick: and in any case, you can just use and SSL cert and not do any silly msg-nickserv stuff
15:53:06 <Yorick> I'd rather do that yes
15:53:19 <Yorick> but I would like a client that supports it
15:53:44 <SpComb> and ChatZilla doesn't?
15:54:02 <Yorick> not the custom cert stuff
15:54:17 <SpComb> why not use xchat or somesuch?
15:55:29 <Yorick> I don't like the interface
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16:01:47 <Brianetta> irssi's interface needs a complete overhaul
16:04:51 <SpComb> then it wouldn't be irssi anymore
16:05:11 * SpComb has used irssi with the default settings (minor modifications) for three years now
16:06:00 <hylje> irssi could use a menu-based configuration, but that's about it
16:14:27 <peter1138> Yorick: I could, but the glove box door would get in the way...
16:14:36 <peter1138> Also it would require putting the wood back.
16:14:56 <Yorick> you put the wood in the glove box?
16:15:24 <Yorick> Ooh...you have a very very big glove box
16:15:27 <peter1138> It's a tiny car with a 2.7m glove box :D
16:19:41 <Prof_Frink> peter1138 is a glove.
16:26:54 <XeryusTC> how does one stop trains turning around in yapp blocks?
16:27:06 <XeryusTC> i've set wait_for_pbs_path to 255 but it still doesnt work
16:28:03 <Ammler> if zephyris would allow it, you should really include his trams to the openttd.grf
16:28:40 <Ammler> the question for how to enable trams is that common :-)
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16:39:26 <Rubidium> and as a result get flamed by mb because it changes the "defaults"?
16:59:28 <Ammler> Rubidium: which defaults?
16:59:42 <Ammler> there aren't any default trams, which you can change
17:00:04 <Vikthor> Since when is MB part of development team with so powerful voice regarding design issues?
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17:00:38 <Ammler> Vikthor: he is more a experienced guy who as always right ;-)
17:01:50 <Ammler> you do also include graphics for tram tracks...
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17:04:17 <Rubidium> Ammler: but tram tracks don't replace vehicle statistics
17:04:25 <Rubidium> and adding trams does that
17:04:54 <Ammler> including them with a patch setting?
17:05:16 <Rubidium> still breaks other newgrfs
17:05:17 <Ammler> well, that is the same
17:05:56 <peter1138> MB is right, everyone should use GRM (which he doesn't yet)
17:06:03 <peter1138> (Or engine multiple engine sets :D)
17:06:56 <Ammler> does TTDP also coding something in this direction?
17:07:19 <peter1138> TTDP invented GRM...
17:07:38 <Rubidium> Ammler: ofcoure, because we stole the multiple engine patch from TTDP as we did with everything else ;)
17:07:41 <peter1138> It even invented forced GRM, but that has to be disabled because not enough sets use it.
17:09:15 <Kloopy> Hi guys... we're at a huge LAN party in the UK here (i34)...
17:09:23 <Kloopy> We're getting desync errors with the latest nightly.
17:09:31 <Ammler> Rubidium: did you just forgot the tramset in 0.6.2 or was there another reason for not including anymore?
17:09:33 <Kloopy> Noone is using auto replace atm.
17:09:34 <Rubidium> Kloopy: because you use autoreplace
17:09:43 <Rubidium> Kloopy: or autorenew
17:09:48 <Brianetta> Why does OpenTTD override all my diff_custom?
17:09:54 <Kloopy> Yeah, I think everyone has auto renew on by default.
17:10:05 <Brianetta> I edit the config, start the server, and it#'s all wrong... *and* it writes that wrongness back into my config
17:10:06 <Rubidium> Brianetta: because diff_level != 3
17:10:18 <Brianetta> When did this start?
17:10:20 <Kloopy> Is there any way to fix this savegame and start again or must we fall back to a proper release of the game?
17:10:28 <Rubidium> Brianetta: long long ago
17:10:41 <Brianetta> Why didn't it ever affect me until today?
17:10:48 <Brianetta> My server's quite a long-lived one
17:10:58 <Rubidium> because you had set diff_level == 3?
17:11:05 <Rubidium> or because you didn't notice
17:11:17 <Kloopy> Rubidium: We've only played for 3 game years... no vehicles have been auto replaced. :/
17:11:20 <Brianetta> Oh, I'd have noticed breakdowns
17:11:30 <Brianetta> It makes my blood boil when vehicles break down
17:11:52 <Rubidium> Brianetta: at least 0.5.3 had the same behaviour
17:12:08 <Ammler> Brianetta: your server had breakdowns on as I was there
17:12:34 <Ammler> nah, long time ago, I was there last time
17:12:36 <Brianetta> This last game; I reset my company rather than continue to play.
17:12:36 <Rubidium> Kloopy: then I've got no idea
17:14:27 <Kloopy> Well then there's a patch that's introduced something that isn't MP safe. :((
17:14:42 <Kloopy> We're not using any grfs.
17:16:18 <Fennec> so. someone point me at instructions on how to play with these fancy new signalling-pathfinder-thingies?
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17:33:19 <Ammler> also clients crashed this time...
17:33:46 <SpComb> my template is bigger than yours
17:34:44 <SpComb> dissing C++ is actually a pretty fun hobby
17:34:47 <Rubidium> Ammler: make sure it is still reproducable in HEAD and then file a YAPP bugreport
17:35:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: I fear, we can't reproduce this one
17:35:33 <Rubidium> then it can't be fixed either
17:35:43 <Fennec> 'reproducing bugs' is a funny term.
17:35:49 <Fennec> be fruitful, little bugs, and multiply!
17:36:07 <hylje> serves you right for using templates
17:36:41 * Rubidium happily continues to dislike python
17:37:22 <peter1138> If you can't reproduce it how do we know if we've fixed it, heh...
17:38:37 <Ammler> peter1138: just trust us :P
17:39:37 * Rubidium trusts Ammler in the case that the assertion has been solved. If that does not seem to be the case he'll have lost his trustworthiness forever.
17:56:38 <Yorick> Kloopy: how many desyncs have you had?
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19:00:49 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14038 /trunk/src/ (player_base.h players.cpp): -Fix [FS#2211] (r13731): company limit was not properly enforced for CMD_PLAYER_CTRL.
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19:06:31 <Vemarkis> Is it normal that telling a tram to turn back causes it to start doing teleport looping on the next curve it reaches?
19:07:49 <Vemarkis> and telling to turn back again won't fix it, and it can't find a depot in that state :d
19:08:05 <Vemarkis> and stopping and starting again just makes it do that weird teleport looping again..
19:22:19 <Kloopy> Yorick, once it started it just kept happening.
19:22:28 <Kloopy> Every real life 2 minutes or so after people rejoined.
19:26:55 <SpComb> or I guess that's not possible with trams
19:29:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:29:18 <Vemarkis> Oh well, seems no devs are around :(
19:30:25 <Bjarni> <Vemarkis> Oh well, seems no devs are around :( <-- I'm here so you are lying
19:30:38 * Bjarni gives Vemarkis -10 trust points
19:30:40 <Vemarkis> Well you just joined!
19:30:48 <Vemarkis> I encountered a funny bug with trams!
19:30:53 <Bjarni> I joined before you gave that statement
19:31:06 * SpComb aquires the #openttd mutex
19:31:20 <Vemarkis> Telling one to turn around makes it do teleporting loops on the next curve it reaches.
19:31:30 <Vemarkis> and you can't get it out of that state
19:32:09 <Vemarkis> You can see it for yourself if you join Brianetta's server..
19:32:22 <Bjarni> I wouldn't mind being able to make teleporting loops in real life
19:32:40 <Brianetta> Vemarkis: You can make them turn around anywhere
19:33:56 <Vemarkis> Yes well, look at my road vehicle 10 then
19:34:03 <Vemarkis> its doing teleport loop on this 1 square
19:34:22 <ln> Bjarni: do you live in a closet if you have never heard of either V for Vendetta or The Dark Knight?
19:37:09 <Vemarkis> and it reached that curve ages after I told it to turn around
19:37:12 <Vemarkis> which it didn't do..
19:37:27 <Vemarkis> and then it reached the curve and attempted the turn around then, and started doing that teleport loop
19:39:12 <Bjarni> I don't live in a closet and I don't deal with people in closets either
19:39:33 <Vemarkis> man would I love something the DeleteVeh cheat in TTDP now..
19:40:10 <Bjarni> but I still don't know anything about either V for Vendetta or The Dark Knight
19:41:41 * Bjarni will take a look later
19:41:49 <Bjarni> right now I'm looking at train schedules
19:42:16 <Bjarni> or more specifically: train crew lists
19:43:52 <ln> i guess there must be better dating sites available even in denmark.
19:45:52 <ln> the quality of my so-called jokes seems to have gone down by 33%.
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20:08:36 <Roujin> has the mercurial repository of cargodest changed?
20:08:44 <Roujin> can't reach it anymore
20:09:05 <peter1138> That's because my PC isn't a 24/7 server :D
20:09:17 <peter1138> Celestar's galasomething link might still work.
20:10:33 * Rubidium guesses his hg server got OOMed
20:10:38 <peter1138> Then it's all offline at the moment :)
20:10:49 <Rubidium> the server itself isn't offline
20:11:06 <peter1138> I meant all the previously 'published' hg repos.
20:14:18 <peter1138> Hmm, there are a lot of [OTTD] tagged screenshot threads...
20:14:38 <Rubidium> even cargopacket tagged screenshot threads
20:16:33 <peter1138> Hmm, didn't prissi say destinations could not be done after cargopackets were introduced...
20:17:25 <Rubidium> IIRC it was more that he wouldn't write it anymore
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21:56:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14039 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp):
21:56:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2217]: reversing an overlength train at a station would try to find a
21:56:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: route out and sometimes reset the unload counter making it wait 2.5 years before
21:56:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: departing instead of waiting until the train would actually leave the station
22:14:09 <Dred_furst`> Where has the openttd server status image site gone?
22:20:15 <Rubidium> Dred_furst`: you make no sense to me
22:20:57 <Dred_furst`> Nevermind I found it
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22:39:10 *** DJNekkid was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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22:42:30 <Prof_Frink> ln: Hmm? We're 0-0, needing 197 to win
22:43:57 <ln> Prof_Frink: Oh, just finished watching V for Vendetta.
23:42:45 <Sacro> "Advanced signals can be passed from the backside"
23:42:53 <Sacro> apart from the sniggeryness of reading "backside"
23:43:06 <Sacro> near enough all signals can be passed from the back
23:43:10 <Sacro> unless it is showing red
23:43:16 <Sacro> you mean the front side
23:44:19 <Sacro> front = bit that points into the next block
23:44:31 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <Bjarni> or more specifically: train crew lists
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