IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-07-19
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00:01:18 <Brianetta> That's rather sad (:
00:05:55 <Brianetta> Donner und Blitzen, hier und jetzt
00:06:14 <Brianetta> I wondered what the flashes were, until I heard the thunder
00:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't let ln hear you :p
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01:31:04 <ccfreak2k> What terrible luck.
01:31:08 <ccfreak2k> My main monitor just died.
01:32:00 <SmatZ> my hard disk died 3 days ago
01:32:19 <ccfreak2k> Except my monitor is kind of hard to come by.
01:33:11 <SmatZ> nice, I like flat big CRTs :)
01:33:36 <ccfreak2k> And it did 1600x1200 at 85Hz. It's a very nice monitor.
01:33:48 <ccfreak2k> I'm gonna take it apart probably tomorrow to see if I can diagnose the problem.
01:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> in my statistics, monitors die a lot faster than hard drives
01:34:14 <SmatZ> I do 1600x1200@85, too :)
01:34:57 <ccfreak2k> That's my biggest requirement for monitors these days. They gotta do high resolutions at high refresh rates.
01:35:20 <ccfreak2k> I can get a Dell M990 for $8 if I drive all the way down to east Sacramento.
01:35:57 <ccfreak2k> Not really worth shipping.
02:08:03 <Lachie> just to add my 2c 30 minutes later
02:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> i second that ;)
02:27:57 <DJNekkid> just a slight Q ... M990 ... is that "just" a CRT monitor?
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05:31:52 <Celestar> has anyone had a detailed look at the paxdest thingy?
05:37:30 <Lachie> but I've heard it's very unstable in newtwork games
05:38:15 <Lachie> I played with the old one.
05:38:27 <Lachie> which would have ben what... 3 4 years ago?
05:42:10 <Celestar> apparently it's slow as crap
05:43:30 <Lachie> anyway, gonna go go some charity work :D
05:58:26 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, that's our source code :D
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06:02:03 <Celestar> peter1138: did you have a look at the paxdest thingy by chance?
06:06:32 <peter1138> Possibly a long time ago.
06:06:43 <peter1138> IIRC it wasn't very good.
06:08:29 <Celestar> which part about it was "not good?"
06:08:59 <Celestar> I mean apart from the fact that it runs a loop of all cargo packets every single day ...
06:22:51 * Celestar tries enabling gcc's loop vectorization
06:25:07 <Celestar> hm ... it manages to optimize the 32bpp blitter
06:40:22 <Celestar> well "note: vectorization may not be profitable"
06:40:36 <blathijs> Hmm, should be fun to try to compile openttd with LLVM. See what it gives :-)
06:41:02 <blathijs> Low Level Virtual Machine, essentially a compiler framework
06:41:26 <Celestar> I could try to run the icc/pgcc over the code and see what it does
06:41:43 <blathijs> which can use gcc to compile C++ to the LLVM Internal Representation and then run optimizations and codegeneration over the generated IR
06:42:06 <blathijs> But it has a number of very good optimizations
06:46:11 * Celestar wonders when we will ever see a work paxdest :P
06:51:03 <TiberiusTeng> just try implement it or write some 'feature specifications' ? :P
06:51:55 <TiberiusTeng> IMO it's a huge topic which can't properly implemented with comprehensive planning ...
06:53:04 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I quite agree
06:53:15 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: are you the one who wrote the opengl blitter?
06:54:06 <Celestar> I'm just about to try it :D
06:54:17 <Celestar> or let's say: I'm considering it :P
06:55:36 <blathijs> is paxdest a misspelling of passenger destinations?
06:56:14 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: does it work on linux anyway? I haven't looked at it yet
06:56:58 <TiberiusTeng> I think it does, as ccfreak2k wrote a SDL driver for it
06:57:16 <Celestar> well make doesn't like it
06:57:18 <Celestar> I'll check with it later
06:58:10 <TiberiusTeng> oops :Q hope you can provide some bugreport ...
06:58:21 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I'm by far no make specialist
06:58:50 <Celestar> and all output it currently gives is "Error 2" :S
06:58:51 <TiberiusTeng> just for your information, it won't magically uses less CPU power :P
06:59:12 <TiberiusTeng> did you ./configure --with-sdlgl ?
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06:59:56 <Celestar> blathijs: "pax" is common usage for "passenger(s)"
07:00:13 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: if I got an error message other than "[all] Error 2" it would be helpful.
07:00:51 <blathijs> Celestar: Yeah, I just read it. Never heard it before :-)
07:03:01 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: -d gives *some* output
07:03:54 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: apparently I'm missing "GLee"
07:09:13 <Celestar> meh the extraction failed
07:09:56 <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:44: error: ‘va_start’ was not declared in this scope
07:09:59 <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:52: error: ‘va_end’ was not declared in this scope
07:10:22 <blathijs> Sounds like a missing include?
07:10:43 <Celestar> stdarg.h for that matter
07:11:44 <TiberiusTeng> great. I wonder how it compiled on Linux before ;)
07:12:20 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: the newer gccs are more ... aggressive when it comes to includes
07:12:43 <Celestar> dunno what changed, but something did from 4.2 to 4.3
07:12:45 <TiberiusTeng> what version are you using then? something like 4.3.0 ?
07:12:51 <Celestar> had that problem with other projects too
07:13:35 <Celestar> glee spits out a nice number of warnings
07:14:23 <Celestar> OpenGL is most likely not initialized. Make sure you used an OpenGL-compatible video driver weehaa
07:15:39 <TiberiusTeng> run ./openttd -v sdlgl -b opengl
07:17:28 <Celestar> apart from the fact that I get about 2 frames per second on the title screen
07:19:32 <Celestar> dbg: [GL] ATI_draw_buffers: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
07:19:35 <Celestar> dbg: [GL] EXT_framebuffer_object: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
07:19:39 <Celestar> and I have purple fonts (=
07:23:11 <Celestar> I gotta head out a little
07:34:51 <TiberiusTeng> Celestar, you'd better stick with original blitters since your card's too old for this :P
07:35:41 <blathijs> TiberiusTeng: Are you using such fancy OpenGL features, then?
07:36:10 <TiberiusTeng> blathijs, I used pixel shaders to do palette lookup ...
07:36:43 <blathijs> So you can still do palette animations?
07:36:52 <TiberiusTeng> and drawbuffer/FBO is used to do palette animation, yes
07:37:22 <blathijs> So we're using state-of-the-art graphics techniques to emulate a dirty old trick? :-p
07:37:33 <TiberiusTeng> render indexed color to FBO -> use FBO as a texture to render to screen
07:39:09 <TiberiusTeng> some cards once supported 8bpp indexed color with palette, but none of state-of-the-art cards do ...
07:40:07 <TiberiusTeng> I don't want to do color-lookup on CPU, so I don't have a choice but use pixel shaders ...
07:42:19 <TiberiusTeng> but I encountered some performance issues and still haven't found a solution now :(
07:43:17 <TiberiusTeng> one of my cores seems always busy-looping to wait GPU finishes its work
07:44:38 <blathijs> That's pretty useless
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08:41:21 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: too old?
08:41:37 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: how old is "too old?"?
08:42:18 <TiberiusTeng> IMO about 2 years ... what's the model you're using ?
08:42:21 <Lachie> left ff on in the scenario editor for too long
08:42:33 <Lachie> it's like... massive forest.
08:42:36 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: RV350 (FireGL T2)
08:42:46 * Lachie will have to remember in future that 3 hours is a little too long.
08:42:53 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: equivalent to a Radeon 9700, just "better" :)
08:44:19 <Celestar> maybe I should switch drivers ...
08:45:05 <TiberiusTeng> hmm ... no. but it's still strange
08:45:23 <TiberiusTeng> although you won't get palette animation, you shouldn't get pink text ...
08:46:26 <TiberiusTeng> but don't hold your breath anyway :p
08:46:41 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I'm using X.org's open source OpenGL driver. I'll swtich to AMD's own crapdriver for a test
08:50:16 <Celestar> WTH is wrong with driverguys these days? ATI'S graphics driver is 50MB, yesterday I downloaded HP's printer driver (90MB total)
08:53:20 <Rubidium> and ofcourse all the crapware that's delivered with the driver
08:53:33 <Celestar> in linux? I don't find that crapware :P
08:54:11 <Rubidium> then I've got no idea
08:54:27 <Rubidium> maybe horribly obfuscated drivers because they are "scared"?
08:54:47 <rortom> mh linux drivers are even worse
08:55:10 <rortom> as they include binaries for different X versions and platforms
08:56:28 <Rubidium> but for a printer driver?
08:57:35 <Celestar> Rubidium: dunno maybe it includes some software I haven't found yet :P
08:58:11 <Celestar> then again, that printer driver supports basically every PCL or PS printer by HP, so lots of definition files
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09:10:41 <CelestarT42p> heh: note to self: running the opengl blitter with software renderer is pointless :P
09:12:33 <CelestarT42p> ok TiberiusTeng I have some good news and some bad news
09:13:16 <CelestarT42p> which part would you like first :D
09:14:28 <TiberiusTeng> bad news is good news while debugging :D
09:15:16 <CelestarT42p> good news: it works as intended with ATI's own driver
09:15:41 <CelestarT42p> bad news: CPU usage in title screen is increased by a factor of 80 compared to the default blitter
09:16:54 * CelestarT42p gets scared and accidently sticks a claymore into Yorick
09:17:05 <TiberiusTeng> so the opengl blitter sucks big time :D
09:17:18 <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: dunno what part it is, just recompiling with profiling
09:17:46 <hylje> too much stuff in software
09:17:53 <hylje> batch rendering failure
09:19:14 <TiberiusTeng> it would be a great help if it's possible to isolate which OpenGL calls takes most time
09:19:22 <Yorick> you were the openttdserver.de guy, right?
09:19:31 <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: I can give it a try
09:19:35 <TiberiusTeng> which is almost impossible under Windows ... at least I didn't find a way.
09:19:49 <TiberiusTeng> I suspect it's all concentrated on texture copy stuff ...
09:20:22 <TiberiusTeng> the 80% cpu usage is most likely busy-looping waiting the card, or converting texture format ...
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09:20:56 <CelestarT42p> most use is CallVehicleTicks() ?!
09:21:09 <Yorick> it redraws the vehicles...I think
09:21:50 <hylje> does it correlate with fps?
09:22:14 <TiberiusTeng> maybe it didn't take the driver into account ...
09:22:19 <CelestarT42p> I'm trying to callgrind it
09:23:24 <CelestarT42p> wee got a title screen
09:23:40 <hylje> i suspect it's a bit slow?
09:23:45 <CelestarT42p> in callgrind?! sure
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09:25:24 <CelestarT42p> fark. forgot the debugging symbols
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09:27:04 * CelestarT42p updates from kde 4.0.98 to 4.0.99
09:30:35 <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: it's possibly to find on linux. callgrind tells you how much time you spend in every line of your source code
09:35:07 <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: hm .. from a first quick glance, there's nothing that seems horribly out-of-line
09:36:59 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps it didn't take opengl library/driver into account ...
09:37:07 <TiberiusTeng> that's what I faced under Windows :(
09:37:35 <TiberiusTeng> it looks awfully pretty on profiling, only leaving nvoglnt.dll sucking up another core
09:39:10 <CelestarT42p> who's good with kcachegrind here? :P
09:40:08 <TiberiusTeng> the pretty NVPerfHUD is only for DirectX programs ...
09:40:43 <CelestarT42p> hm ... it's the openttd process that eats the CPU, not the X server
09:42:56 <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: I'll check that a bit more later
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10:10:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13734 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction.
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10:54:52 <ccfreak2k> Celestar, the sdlgl driver does work in Linux.
10:54:57 <ccfreak2k> It also works in Windows, although not as well.
10:55:09 <ccfreak2k> But it definitely was a performance improvement on my Slackware box.
10:55:47 <ccfreak2k> Also, I already ran callgrind on a few different configurations. sdlgl was an improvement across the board.
10:55:49 <Brianetta> What I want to see:
10:55:50 <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargopacket.cpp
10:55:50 <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargotype.cpp
10:55:50 <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargocult.cpp
11:09:51 <Lachie> I appear to have completely broken my computer
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11:10:48 <Brianetta> I can't get yapp to compile
11:10:59 <Lachie> my home folder is gone :o
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11:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: applied the patch to a working copy where you previously applied a yapp patch and reverted it?
11:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> that won't revert new files
11:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you have to manually delete them
11:23:39 <Brianetta> Eddi: Apparently so
11:23:52 <Brianetta> Rubidium posted as much
11:23:58 <Brianetta> and it's compiled (:
11:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can easily find out new files by grepping the .diff for "Revision 0"
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11:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> except for yapp, wich is not an svn diff
11:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> there you have to search for /dev/null
11:27:42 <Brianetta> well, svn status | egrep (\.cpp|\.h)
11:28:04 <Brianetta> that'll show you all changed c++ files, and it's easy to spot the new ones
11:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but that might include new files from other patches ;)
11:28:15 <Rubidium> svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm
11:28:25 <Brianetta> In my case, just one patch at a time
11:28:44 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Even better (:
11:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, we agree that there are always multiple ways to do something [as long as there is any way at all]
11:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> C src/elrail.cpp
11:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i should tell SVN that i resolved that ;)
11:34:05 <Yorick> remove the .mine files
11:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> Yorick: what do you think that would do?
11:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> [besides there aren't any]
11:35:39 <Yorick> tell svn you resolved the conflict
11:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think so :p
11:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> you tell svn that you resolved src/elrail.cpp conflict by saying "svn resolved src/elrail.cpp"
11:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would you do anything else?
11:43:32 <KingJ> Whats the best way to "grow" a town? I've got the patch settings set on maximin, anything I need to do apart from a single well served station?
11:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> 5 well served stations
11:46:16 <Yexo> note that "well serviced" means at least one vehicle every 20 days, so 4 bus stops with a few busses should do fine
11:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Rubidium> svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm <-- you might want to add an "awk '{ print $2 }'" in case you want to preserve any 1-letter-name files :p
11:47:24 <KingJ> Not based on cargo rating then?
11:48:23 <Yexo> for town growth: no, not based on cargo rating
11:48:28 <DaleStan> Hard to have a bad rating with a vehicle every 20 days, but no, it's not.
11:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, just vehicle...
11:49:08 <Yexo> DaleStan: it's not that hard if the station gets a lot of cargo, the rating will drop because of waiting cargo
11:49:30 <KingJ> Yeah, couple of busses in the centre of the city
11:49:57 <KingJ> Is there anything on the wiki listing what makes up the cargo performance rating? I couldn't find anything
11:50:21 <Yexo> station rating = cargo performance rating
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12:23:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13735 /branches/0.6/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:23:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
12:23:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction (r13734)
12:23:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Assumption that non-north tiles of a house do not have the 1x1 building
12:23:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bit set was flawed with some NewGRFs. This caused the amount of houses to
12:23:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: differ, which causes the town radii to differ, which causes desyncs when towns
12:23:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: are expanded (r13729)
12:39:33 <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: ccfreak2k what hardware are you running the stuff on?
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13:59:06 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13736 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13656): regression failing because the opcode counter wasn't properly reset.
14:00:21 <fjb> Is the noai branch already playable?
14:00:55 <Yexo> the one big missing thing is still rail support
14:00:59 <fjb> Hm, is it also patchable with yapp?
14:01:08 <Rubidium> actually... it's getting more unplayable over time
14:01:24 <Rubidium> because the AIs are getting better and better
14:01:25 <Yexo> fjb: yes, but you may have to merge some small pieces by hand
14:01:42 <fjb> Merging isn't a problem, usually.
14:01:51 <Yexo> <Rubidium> because the AIs are getting better and better <- if that is your definition of unplayable I'd say it's already unplayable with road vehicles only
14:03:02 <fjb> The new ai (raod vehicles only) in trunk doesn't like the new eGRTV grf. It dumps core as soon as the ai buys the first road vehicle.
14:03:48 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13737 /branches/noai/ (132 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13683:13734.
14:04:03 <glx> fjb: where is the bug report about it?
14:04:19 <Yorick> fjb: the new ai is experimental
14:04:34 <glx> but it shouldn't crash openttd
14:04:35 <Yorick> all bug reports should go to truebrain
14:04:51 <glx> no the text has changed some time ago
14:04:54 <fjb> Don't have to say anything beside that it crashes yet.
14:05:38 <fjb> My os tells me something about a floating point error when it dumps core. Very starnge.
14:06:34 <fjb> I will be away for about half an hour. I well see if I can find more about it then.
14:10:13 <Yexo> fjb: strange, admiralai doesn't like the eGRTV set either, although it works fine with the LV grf
14:12:54 <Yexo> fjb: are you sure it's a bug in the AI? If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
14:13:09 <Yexo> it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
14:13:38 <ccfreak2k> Celestar, I ran my tests on an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ box with an AGP 8x ATi Radeon X850 XT PE.
14:13:53 <ccfreak2k> Using the fglrx driver.
14:14:04 <Yexo> so I suspect a bug in either eGRTV or in openttd newgrf handling, but not in the AI
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14:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> *note* when you try to build "multi-tile" depots, click the right depot to build the train in :p
14:59:10 <Yorick> the python does not like me :(
15:00:14 <Lachie> python doesn't like me either.
15:00:19 <Lachie> or perl or ruby for that matter
15:00:42 <Lachie> infact, the only thing reminiscent of a coding language that does seem to get along with me is NFO
15:01:01 <Yorick> I'm trying to unpack the payload of a PACKET_SERVER_ERROR_QUIT packet...
15:01:15 <Yorick> documentation says function should always return array...and it doesn't
15:02:26 <Lachie> perhaps another jumper is in order.
15:06:34 <Yorick> oh, I should blame documentation for returning the result of another function if certain arguments are given...which causes my array not to be multidimentional anymore
15:16:40 <Celestar> ccfreak2k: weird, the X850 shouldn't be too different from a 9700
15:17:12 <ccfreak2k> The Radeon 9700 has an R350 or something like that.
15:17:15 <ccfreak2k> This one is an R450.
15:17:52 <ccfreak2k> Unless your 9700 is an XT, they're worlds different.
15:20:17 <fjb> Yexo: The crash doesn't happen with the old ai.
15:20:50 <fjb> And the orders of road vehicles behave a bit strange sometimes, espacially depot orders.
15:20:56 <Yexo> If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
15:20:56 <Yexo> <Yexo> it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
15:20:56 <Yexo> <Yexo> that is without any AI <- can you confirm this?
15:21:06 <Lachie> gotta love 48% wireless strength.
15:22:29 <fjb> We are playing with bleeding edge stuff here. But it is fun.
15:23:46 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Good point. Building in the wron depot already happened to me.
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15:39:27 <Yexo> <fjb> Yexo: I have to try it. <- did you test it?
15:40:00 <fjb> Yexo: Not yet. I'm patching noai with YAPP at the moment.
15:52:07 <fjb> I hope it will compile now.
15:53:25 <fjb> What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk?
15:57:34 <Gekz> it just destroys the landscape
16:01:05 <fjb> Gekz: There are sometimes complaints at the forum about the old ai outperforming a player.
16:02:12 <fjb> Ok, the old ai outperformed me in my first game. I took a look into the manual then to find out what all the buttons in the game are for...
16:02:43 <SmatZ> yeah there are often angry players complaining that old AI is too hard
16:04:54 <SmatZ> maybe you should post there a post that AI is too weak
16:05:06 <fjb> A look into the manual should help them. It never outperformed me after I knew what to do inthe game. The first game was merely clicking around out of curiousity.
16:05:40 <SmatZ> when I first played TTO, I thought "competitors" are my friends helping my company
16:06:12 <fjb> Sometimes they do... At least you cal use their roads.
16:06:50 <fjb> But I hate it when human players are putting an one way sign at any road tile.
16:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> <fjb> What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk? <- there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those
16:11:25 <fjb> My YAPP patched noai doesn't compile... make stops with nothing to do for "all" after compiling town_gui.cpp
16:11:31 <Yexo> there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those <- that is worked on right now, but there will be settings per AI, not global settings
16:11:52 <Yorick> fjb: try removing your .d and .o files
16:12:07 <Yexo> fjb: do a make clean of even make mrproper && ./configure
16:12:44 <fjb> That was the first run of configure and make after a svn checkout.
16:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: try without patch first :p
16:14:08 <Yorick> I think your source.list is corrupted
16:14:11 <fjb> Maybe the patch didn't like the different source.list.
16:14:12 <frosch123> fjb: maybe source.list conflicted
16:16:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13738 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_squirrel.cpp fileio.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r13737): assert when a tar file doesn't contain a dir
16:17:33 <fjb> There were two rejected files. But they compiled ok after i resolved the conflicts manually.
16:18:50 <Yorick> are you sure there was nothing with source list after town_gui.cpp?
16:20:44 <fjb> frosch123: What is make trying to say me: Die Datei »/home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r13737noaiyapp/src/train_cmd.cpp« wird "gestutzt" (der Abhängigkeitsgraph).
16:21:50 <glx> file created in the future?
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16:22:30 <frosch123> very nice translation, you can translate it back to english word by word, and then it makes sense :p
16:23:09 <glx> it usually happen to me when I extract a tar file
16:24:06 <fjb> Never delete the wrong file...
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17:15:47 <fjb> What do i have to do now? Download some ais from the forum and put the tar archives ito the ai folder?
17:20:40 <Yexo> I suggest to start with convoy / admiralai / wrightai
17:22:05 <fjb> Ok, I already fond that three.
17:22:50 <Yexo> You can start an ai with the console command start_ai ai_name, if not they will be started randomly (depend on your difficulty settings of course)
17:23:45 <fjb> Randomly sounds interesting.
17:28:01 <Yorick> I wonder how openttd does the leave thing...
17:28:35 <Yorick> sending the leaving packet -> quitting the game
17:28:51 <Yorick> quitting the game instantly results in a connection lost
17:29:26 <Yorick> quitting the game after you see your own quit message gives you a recv failed with 10024
17:29:50 <fjb> Do the noai ias only work with the original vehicles?
17:30:07 <Yorick> some of them use EngineLists
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17:31:06 <Yexo> most of them work with ok with new vehicles
17:31:22 <Yexo> there are a few that don't refit a vehicle when needed
17:32:08 <Yexo> although eGRTV does behave strange, but it does that also when I built a vehicle manually
17:32:13 <fjb> Hm, they don't build anything.
17:32:34 <Yexo> watch the ai debut panel (under the question mark)
17:34:18 <Yexo> it depends on the difficulty setting opponent_building_speed or so how fast they build
17:34:49 <hylje> openttd r13734 on Ubuntu, built from checkout, viewport doesn't expand properly when maximise button is pressed
17:35:02 <hylje> (stretching the window works fine)
17:35:25 <SmatZ> hylje: I miss the Maximise window in Gentoo/KDE :-P
17:41:46 <hylje> i can haul tourists in tanker wagons
17:42:28 <Yexo> the tourists won't like that :p
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17:43:15 <fjb> Tourists like almost anything they have to pay for.
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17:55:25 <fjb> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
17:56:10 <Yexo> fjb: You've hit one of the threading bugs in NoAI
17:56:26 <Yexo> what did you do to get that message?
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17:57:47 <fjb> Just start some ais and then pressed the fast forward button. After some time that happens.
17:58:50 <Yexo> it's known that NoAI can crash upon exiting an AI (so closing a game, game exit etc.)
18:00:00 <fjb> Maybe that was the cause. Most ais didn't build anything and reveived financial warnings. Maybe one got closed.
18:00:11 <Yexo> ah, that could be the case
18:01:56 <fjb> The ais you told me to try, wright, admiral and convoy.
18:02:38 <Yexo> I find it strange those get in financial trouble, but it could happen of course
18:03:22 <Yorick> have you set the loan amount?
18:04:27 <fjb> Hm, don't think so. Where is that set? Game difficulty?
18:09:44 <Yexo> that's not enough for wrigthai
18:09:55 <Yexo> not sure about convoy, but admiralai should be ok
18:10:11 <Yexo> more than 100.000, 150.000 should be enough ;)
18:10:14 <fjb> Admiral was the only one building something.
18:12:07 <nicfer> what would be better, industries like cities or cities like industries?
18:13:03 <Yexo> I don't think either option is any good, but why do you ask?
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18:14:01 <Yexo> fjb: oh, and wrightai doesn't terraform, so if you're playing on a mountanious map it might quit because it couldn't find a place for it's first airport
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18:15:16 <fjb> Oh, I'm playing in hills, but with very smoot slopes.
18:17:12 <fjb> next try with 200000£ initian loan.
18:17:58 <nicfer> I think that making industries like houses will allow them to be more flexible
18:18:15 <Yexo> in what way will they be more flexible?
18:19:18 <nicfer> for example, you can destroy a single tile without destroying the whole industry
18:20:19 <Yorick> houses get destroyed if you destroy one tile of them...
18:20:21 <Yexo> you can't destroy industries at all right now, and that's fine by me
18:21:15 <Yexo> and that's like saying you want to destroy the runways of an airport but keep the airport intact: useless
18:21:55 <hylje> nicfer: you mean industries like cities
18:22:47 <hylje> if industry likes one enough, one can get away with moving (demolishing) its modules (houses) out of way
18:23:48 <nicfer> the industry will only reduce it's production
18:24:48 <nicfer> also, industries aren't built in the middle of nothing
18:25:42 <hylje> city-like behaviour another
18:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> placement can be done with newgrf... PBI has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population"
18:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning secondary industries are pretty much never in the middle of nowhere
18:30:01 <Vikthor> gah, I made bug in bug-report :(
18:30:11 <Yorick> it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population
18:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i got into that kind of trouble when i wanted to found a food processing plant near my cargo station
18:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was too far from the town itself
18:30:43 <frosch123> and if that is not enough, ECS has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population, and within 3 tiles of water and not near any industry of the same type"
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18:31:32 <Yorick> some require sloped land, within 3 tiles of desert
18:31:53 <Yorick> nowhere near a town with at least 0 population
18:32:52 <fjb> Wrightai gives up after building the first route failed.. :-(
18:33:14 <fjb> And when it goes bankrupt the game crashes.
18:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Yorick> it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population <- i think what it really does is "count population within a 10 tile radius"
18:33:47 <Yexo> fjb: then either use a flatter map or don't use wrightai
18:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> because i can build it quite far from the center of my 26k town, just around the cargo station there are no houses
18:34:03 <Yexo> anpai is another plane ai that does approx as good as wrightai
18:34:08 <fjb> How can I exclude wrightai?
18:34:21 <Yexo> remove the dir from bin/ai
18:34:35 <fjb> Ok, thought there would be a smarter way.
18:34:40 <Yexo> or rename ai/wrightai/info.nut
18:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> or start 8 other AIs ;)
18:35:08 <fjb> Convoy also never builds anything.
18:35:08 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause2: 7 is enough, as you are a company yourself :)
18:35:26 <Yexo> fjb: what does the ai debug panel say? (found under the question mark ingame)
18:35:27 <Yorick> fjb: what kind of towns do you have
18:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think if this weather goes on i am "within 3 tiles of water" soon :p
18:36:01 <fjb> Debug information is gone with the crash. have to start a new game to tell you.
18:36:25 <fjb> How do you mean what kind of towns?
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18:36:56 <Yexo> fjb: what operating system do you use?
18:36:57 <Yorick> near to eachother, big?
18:39:14 <fjb> OS is FreeBSD. Compiler is gcc 3.4.6
18:45:18 <nicfer> one question, can road NoAIs build one-way signs?
18:48:28 <Yexo> and they can't handle one-way signs build by the user either
18:48:38 <Yexo> so don't build them or expect the AIs to fail
18:49:07 <planetmaker> Yexo: you give me a brilliant idea :P
18:49:19 <fjb> Wrightai says: Couldn't build the aircraft. I'm using av8.
18:49:37 <Yexo> planetmaker: If you do, I'm going to patch the server to disallow one-way sign building :p
18:51:05 <planetmaker> Yexo: how does it cope with rivers?
18:51:18 <Yexo> no idea, you'll have to try that
18:51:28 <Yexo> but it should be a problem, as it can cope with canals and see
18:52:47 <tom0004> one question, when did, Steel mills accept passengers ?
18:52:47 <planetmaker> I wondered. Because I tried today in the SE to have town with a river inside: place river, then place town.
18:53:02 <planetmaker> For the town the river is an obstacle which cannot even be bridged :)
18:53:11 <planetmaker> tom0004: since ever. TTO
18:53:23 <Yexo> well, I'd consider that as a bug in trunk (or unimplemented feature)
18:53:40 <planetmaker> I guess unimplemented. Rivers are too new :P
18:53:42 <Yexo> planetmaker: I would guess a town doesn't bridge canals either
18:53:55 <planetmaker> probably. Didn't try that
18:54:56 <planetmaker> hm... just assuming the SE generated rivers - should they be generated before or after towns?
18:55:11 <Yexo> before, or towns might get flooded
18:55:25 <Yorick> I think towns should be able to bridge them
18:55:29 <planetmaker> come to think of it: no towns next to rivers, if after...
18:55:37 <planetmaker> rivers don't flood... so far
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18:56:02 <planetmaker> and it's easy to ask whether a tile is a house or not.
18:56:14 <Yexo> planetmaker: flooded as in, what do you do when you generate a river through a town?
18:56:34 <planetmaker> Yexo: so far: I just don't do that as houses are a nono-area
18:57:02 <Yexo> in that case you might get some strange rivers around towns
18:57:14 <Yexo> so I still think it's better to do rivers before towns
18:58:35 <tom0004> oh well, i'll leave it then
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19:06:37 <Tyler_Bishop> hey is any one here using the latest dev?
19:06:59 <fjb> We are all using the devs. :-)
19:07:17 <Tyler_Bishop> hehe, is there a problem with the company list in multiplayer
19:07:21 <SmatZ> I think frosch123 is the latest dev
19:07:34 <Tyler_Bishop> it selects them all when trying to select
19:08:28 <Tyler_Bishop> create a multiplayer game
19:08:39 <Tyler_Bishop> connect make a new company
19:08:50 <Tyler_Bishop> u cant select the companys :(
19:08:58 <Tyler_Bishop> i like the new multiplayer window in this latest one
19:10:03 <Tyler_Bishop> i like all the features of the later releases, wish there was a stable dev build lol
19:11:47 <Tyler_Bishop> SmatZ: do you see what im talking about
19:12:09 <SmatZ> and all companies have the same name
19:12:32 <Tyler_Bishop> any ideas on a quick fix?
19:12:54 <Yorick> join serverip#company:serverport
19:14:08 <planetmaker> sounds like being introduced with making the players a pool a few revs ago...
19:14:58 <Tyler_Bishop> is it a known bug
19:17:21 <Yorick> planetmaker: and thát sounds like more-companies being included in trunk
19:18:11 <planetmaker> Yorick: not sure... reason was some bug for cleaning old companies... - but maybe
19:18:15 <SmatZ> planetmaker: indeed, introduced in r13731
19:18:36 <Tyler_Bishop> is there any where i can get a copy of r13730
19:18:40 <glx> Vikthor: status changed ;)
19:18:50 <planetmaker> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
19:18:58 <planetmaker> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk -r 13730
19:19:13 <Tyler_Bishop> if only i was on a linux machine :P
19:19:18 <SmatZ> or get older nightly :-P
19:19:21 <Yorick> I'm doing that on windows
19:19:22 <planetmaker> works on my Mac :P
19:20:37 <Tyler_Bishop> got it, turtoise :D
19:20:48 <Ammler> Tyler_Bishop: BOTTD is better
19:20:59 <Tyler_Bishop> hehe, i know how to use this haha
19:21:09 <glx> BOTTD comes with a full working dev env
19:21:24 <Tyler_Bishop> whats that mean to me :p
19:21:28 <Ammler> you have then a little gree unix with it (mingw)
19:21:38 <glx> the only problem is BOTTD itself doesn't work on vista
19:21:44 <Tyler_Bishop> damn, now how to i compile this for windows
19:22:46 <Ammler> bottd is os, did nobody fix that yet?
19:23:04 <Tyler_Bishop> i need visual studio installed to compile this correct?
19:23:44 <glx> but visual studio works too
19:24:13 <glx> I use mingw, 2005 express and 2008 express
19:24:29 <Tyler_Bishop> how about mingw 5.1.4
19:25:08 <glx> bottd installs mingw and msys
19:25:59 <Tyler_Bishop> ive never compiled a program before
19:26:04 <Tyler_Bishop> well, on windows
19:26:05 <Zuu> Tyler_Bishop: Why not just use last working nightly or is there something special that have hapened between that and now?
19:26:19 <Tyler_Bishop> zuu, multiplayer is hammed
19:26:36 <Zuu> Yea, that's why I sad last working and not just last.
19:26:50 <Tyler_Bishop> is there a pre-compiled last working available?
19:27:02 <Zuu> They stay on the server quite long.
19:28:49 <Zuu> Way back from second may it seams.
19:29:26 <Ammler> don't you want the detailed server infos?
19:30:07 <Tyler_Bishop> multiplayer company list works?
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19:31:25 <Zuu> Dihedral Auto Nightly server uses 13734 it seams, but maybe you are going to host yourself?
19:31:29 <Tyler_Bishop> 13718 looks good to far
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19:31:44 <Tyler_Bishop> yeah, i host my own game with friends
19:32:08 <Tyler_Bishop> yeah 13718 looks good :)
19:32:20 <Eoin> svn: Failed to add file 'trunk\svnup.sh': object of the same name already exists
19:33:08 <Eoin> But i dont know where it is xD
19:33:14 <glx> you used it on a non svn dir?
19:33:24 <Eoin> i just done it to desktop/ottd
19:33:35 <Tyler_Bishop> damit creating a new vehicle in this version is broke :(
19:35:34 <Tyler_Bishop> in 13718 creating a veh crashes it
19:37:31 <Yorick> just try that join console command
19:38:01 <Tyler_Bishop> 13706 is a winner
19:40:22 <Forked> DJNekkid: heya... and I'm off again :)
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19:53:03 <Tyler_Bishop> this game is addicting
19:54:18 <fjb> noai crashes everytime an ai becomes bankrupt.
19:54:40 <SmatZ> oh noes another crash :-/
19:55:31 <Yexo> only use AIs that don't go bankrupt :)
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20:08:37 <Forked> mmm vacation .. have a great one, good people
20:23:45 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
20:24:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13739 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r13731): some variables would be erroneously zeroed, causing autoclean and company passwords not to work.
20:24:47 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13740 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix (r13731): one could only join the first company.
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20:37:39 <Mark> i got a little problem; in the scenario editor i want to "fund many industries" but the "build" option is grayed out
20:37:45 <Mark> anyone knows what to do with that?
20:37:51 <Mark> or is it just not possible for some reason?
20:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have a town?
20:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> then i don't know...
20:50:38 <Mark> i'll try with today's nightly
20:51:43 <SmatZ> Mark: do you have set "Patches - Economy - Industries" to None ?
20:52:12 <SmatZ> mmm it is not in Patches...
20:52:32 <Mark> and yes, it's set to none
20:52:40 <Mark> but i thought that wouldn't be a problem ;)
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21:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> wow... we didn't have that in quite a long time...
21:50:38 <DorpsGek> ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I didn't have any
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21:51:04 <Sacro> he must have got lost while looking for them
21:54:46 <ln> i hope they have some in denmark
21:55:01 <Zuu> Is it just my ISP or is openttd.org down?
21:56:05 <Zuu> Ah, that citience, he only play OpenTTD all the time. To dangerous, we must block him from openttd.org ;)
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21:56:41 <Zuu> But now openttd.org also work :)
21:58:55 <Zuu> And now openttd.org fail again but the IP works. I should probably force my router to use a better DNS than the one my ISP provides.
21:59:24 <Zuu> Have been iusses with sites going down 5 minutes every now and then.
22:04:24 <orudge> hmm, well, the DNS change was a good few days ago now
22:04:33 <orudge> so you'd have hoped it would update by now
22:04:58 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
22:05:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13741 /branches/noai/Makefile.in: [NoAI] -Fix: unused tag
22:05:48 *** Zuu is now known as Guest315
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22:13:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13742 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix: fix most of the Squirrel problems by disabling the garbage collector .. go figure!
22:16:48 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13743 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: AI_Uninitialize asserted when Player-pool wasn't initialized .. bypass it
22:21:52 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
22:22:41 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13744 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: smallest commit ever
22:23:04 <Yexo> fjb: The latest svn version of NoAI should have fixed the crahsed you had when an AI goes bankrupt
22:23:10 <Yexo> could you please confirm this?
22:23:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13745 /branches/noai/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp openttd.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: move '_settings_game = _settings_newgame;' to a small functions, so additions later on are easier, while keeping it simple to backport things to trunk
22:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2026.%20Feb%201934.png <- enough trains now? :p
22:24:44 <fjb> Yexo: It is not fixed in r13738
22:25:15 <Yexo> fjb: I was talking about commit 13742 :)
22:26:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13746 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai.cpp ai_squirrel.cpp ai_squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Change: rename SelectAI to FindAI (makes more sense, even more later on)
22:27:18 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13747 /branches/noai/projects/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix (r13742): disable squirrel garbage collector for MSVC too
22:31:22 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13748 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp ai_squirrel.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: redirected some internals to allow extending of a few entries later on
22:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> two farms, two coal mines and two forests near that city, and all local cargo trains gather at this station to transfer to long distance cargo trains
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22:51:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13749 /branches/noai/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: move AIController and AIInfo into the Player-struct
22:53:20 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13750 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: _ai_enabled was always true for its point of usage
22:58:52 <ln> whose home-compiled OpenTTD has icon when ran from the build directory?
23:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> some of mine have, others not
23:04:55 <ln> mine is trying to open media/openttd.32.bmp, but that fails because the cwd is bin.
23:05:46 <Yexo> start from the upper directory with bin/openttd :)
23:05:47 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:05:59 <fjb> Yexo: r13749-noai: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
23:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> lrwxrwxrwx 1 johannes users 9 24. Mai 2007 bin/media -> ../media/
23:07:03 <Yexo> fjb: can you maybe join #openttd.noai? then I won't have to copy those messages for TrueBrain :)
23:07:06 <ln> Yexo: that's what i'm doing, but it's still bin despite that.
23:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... timing two trains on a single track line is really nontrivial
23:08:01 <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: i know symlinks, but d'ogh, shouldn't some Makefile or something create those if necessary. or shouldn't the symlinks be in svn.
23:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: i wondered that myself
23:11:24 <Tim> Hello together... How exactly is the NoAI channel called?
23:11:48 <rortom> mh what does noai stand for btw?
23:12:09 <Tim> It's the new Artifical Intelligence...
23:12:20 <Tim> Dunno why it is called "NO"-ai, kinda confusing :D
23:12:42 <Rubidium> as there was No AI at some point
23:12:58 <Rubidium> or whatever you can construct from that acronym
23:14:28 <ln> Rubidium: what do you say about the icon thing?
23:15:39 <Sacro> thou shalt have no false icons
23:15:45 <Rubidium> it requires partial install on make to get working in all cases
23:16:17 <rortom> openttd just crashed my server :/
23:17:02 <Rubidium> openttd shouldn't crash an OS
23:17:17 <ln> Rubidium: full screen is not an option as long as SDL doesn't support fullscreen without changing video mode and keeping the mouse to itself.
23:17:19 <rortom> Rubidium: agreed, just a cheap linux host
23:17:42 <rortom> i think mem full or such
23:17:50 <Rubidium> that shouldn't crash an OS
23:18:01 <rortom> oh, ottd kept running :)
23:18:05 <rortom> just no ssh anymore ;)
23:19:25 <rortom> where can i checkout the noAI branch?
23:19:36 <rortom> i seem to stupid to find a valid URL
23:23:16 <rortom> its a nice too to generate build system files cross-platform
23:23:24 <rortom> so just write a premake script thing
23:23:41 <rortom> and that will generate a make file under linux and any windows VS-build sys
23:24:29 <Rubidium> I doubt it'll support everything we need to keep OpenTTD cross-compilable
23:25:00 <Rubidium> nasty hacks for calling gcc
23:25:24 <rortom> we use it a lot and it proved really helpful for us
23:27:31 <Rubidium> doesn't seem to do osx application bundle stuff either
23:28:36 <rortom> we just use it to sync linux and windows build systems
23:28:50 <Rubidium> got a script to do that
23:29:15 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13751 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: add support for 'adjacent stations', ie allow stations directly adjacent to other stations. Sorry, all AI will need an update (slap Yexo for that, as he could have requested it sooner)
23:29:16 <rortom> i think your custom script does it well :)
23:31:05 <rortom> please add version tagging for the settings directory under windows XP
23:31:16 <rortom> i get problems when using different versions ...
23:32:16 <glx> rortom: just put an openttd.cfg in each version
23:32:26 <Rubidium> rortom: and how do you expect that to work?
23:32:39 <Rubidium> create a new .cfg for each revision of OpenTTD?
23:34:32 <rortom> we have to face that problem with RoR also
23:34:40 <rortom> and im not sure how to face it either
23:35:07 <rortom> saving files in mydocuments
23:35:28 <rortom> OpenTTD-0.6.2 could work
23:35:51 <rortom> mh is the new noai enabled by default?
23:36:03 <glx> I don't want to put the ttd files in many places
23:37:19 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:37:35 <rortom> so whats in there if no ai?
23:37:40 <rortom> just stripped version?
23:37:58 <Yexo> a framework to allow AIs :)
23:38:01 <Rubidium> an API + scripting language so you can write AIs
23:38:14 <rortom> now that makes more sense :)
23:38:25 <Tefad> is it not lua? i forget
23:38:34 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:39:52 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:40:50 <rortom> at least you dont have to code 3d stuff in openttd :\
23:41:02 <rortom> makes me some headcaches sometimes
23:41:39 <Rubidium> bounding boxes for drawing are really 3d boxes
23:42:09 <rortom> but i am about to write a tire trace class
23:42:26 <rortom> that generates a 3d mesh out of a triangle strip :/
23:42:58 <rortom> bit complicated to get it working the correct way
23:43:08 <glx> btw TNT explosion effects is weird
23:43:50 <rortom> its just a 'bug' found by users :)
23:44:12 <rortom> the physical model tends to explode when there are certain conditions
23:44:32 <glx> I mean the explosive crates
23:44:46 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
23:44:57 <glx> anyway it's weird (and unrealistic ;) )
23:45:10 <rortom> yes, its not intended at all... ;)
23:45:38 <rortom> mh im working with boost atm
23:45:53 <rortom> nice lib, especially the boost::python
23:47:16 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:49:11 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:50:09 <rortom> connect_to_ip = france.rigsofrods.com:5002
23:50:16 <rortom> is it valid to give a port?
23:51:11 <rortom> autoclean_companies = true
23:51:16 <rortom> autoclean_unprotected = 12
23:51:20 <rortom> autoclean_protected = -1
23:51:28 <rortom> ->only clean unprotected?
23:51:42 <rortom> would be handy to have
23:52:18 <glx> Max value - 256 months ~ 21 game years.
23:52:54 <rortom> and pw-protected companies still timed out
23:53:01 <glx> then the password is removed
23:53:23 <rortom> ah, and then removed i guess?
23:53:36 <rortom> i think more control over that would be nice to have :)
23:53:52 <glx> when autoclean_unprotected triggers yes
23:54:15 <glx> so the game is paused when there are no players
23:54:52 <rortom> so the autopilot is kinda useless?
23:54:59 <rortom> as it also pauses the game?
23:55:58 <glx> autopilot can still be used to log stuff
23:56:12 <rortom> but the pause function is redundant then
23:56:35 <glx> it was only in autopilot before we added it in openttd ;)
23:56:36 <rortom> also, my ottd bot is kinda working :)
23:57:25 <Lachie> autopilot refused to install on my server when i tried
23:57:48 <Lachie> I believe it installed, but wouldn't start the game
23:58:32 <Lachie> and it was my admin doing the work lol
23:59:20 <Lachie> but as I said, it was ages ago, doesn't matter now
continue to next day ⏵
