IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-13
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00:37:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13062 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the TransparencyToolbar.
00:46:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13063 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Fix(13062): Removal of old handler was not followed by removal in descriptor
01:05:51 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13064 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the SelectPlayerFaceWindow.
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07:09:12 <peter1138> spot the problem :o
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07:17:21 <Ammler> no openttd process :-)
07:22:48 <peter1138> blindcoder: not much of it
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08:47:11 <peter1138> speaking of bullocks...
08:47:19 <peter1138> dunno what pose that is supposed to be but that face is disturbing
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09:25:35 <Roujin> i already have enough bookmarks for openttd
09:26:53 <Roujin> homepage, forum, wiki, flyspray, doxygen, pastebin, SVN, mercurial and TTDPatch wiki
09:27:29 <ln> ok, in that case it is certainly ok to spam everyone with two lines every time you want to see the logs.
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09:28:27 <Roujin> i tried to whisper the bot before, but got the wrong one.
09:29:42 <Roujin> plus, your response caused everyone to be spammed with (up to now) 7 additional lines
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09:32:07 <Rubidium> with the hope that you don't do it again, thus saving lines after 4 of such additional attempts
09:34:35 <Roujin> i just wonder why there is a bot for that if it is a taboo to use it? :/
09:37:36 <Roujin> huh? yes, that's what i said
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10:04:28 <peter1138> Ammler... problem with filters
10:04:40 <peter1138> the window has to be make bigger for each filter that you add
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10:17:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13065 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: remove the need for the news string callbacks. Patch by Cirdan.
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10:38:46 <Ammler> [12:04] <peter1138> the window has to be make bigger for each filter that you add <-- means, you have to preload all possibilities?
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10:45:38 <peter1138> but if you have a cargo filter and a grf filter...
10:45:44 <peter1138> you'd need two selections
10:45:48 <peter1138> one for cargo and one for grf
10:48:23 <peter1138> hmm, one drop down list with toggles
10:53:13 <Ammler> hmm, maybe a company dependend patch setting, but that would bump the save format, I fear.
10:53:30 <peter1138> patch setting? what for?
10:54:18 <Ammler> no, sometimes you would need the other vehicels too
10:57:01 <peter1138> i'm failing to understand you
10:57:41 <Ammler> I thought about that a company needs to decide which Set it would like to use
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12:16:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13066 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2005]: loading of TTDP savegames with rivers in them.
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12:53:10 <Ammler> Rubidium: just tried your new commit but have still assert on loading ttdp save: openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/station_map.h:61: StationGfx GetStationGfx(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)' failed.
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12:55:45 <Ammler> well, could be another feature, of course, sorry. :-)
12:59:24 <peter1138> ttdp saves are not officially supported
12:59:45 <Ammler> yeah, just realized...
13:00:16 <peter1138> it'll just crash instead :p
13:00:36 <Ammler> it loads without canada station set
13:01:52 <Ammler> hehe, also unpaused running :-)
13:02:57 <Ammler> the ttdpatch non-stop behavier didn't convert
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13:05:29 <Ammler> I guess, it was because of the snow-in-temperate
13:06:33 <Belugas> don't guess. be sure. dwelve in the dark side of the code
13:06:40 <Ammler> Is it possible to disable assert for a game? (without recompiling)
13:07:13 <Ammler> Belugas: I don't understand the code well enough to see such things...
13:07:32 <Rubidium> Ammler: AFAIK it is impossible to get the non-stop setting from ttdpatch.cfg from a TTDP savegame
13:07:52 <Ammler> Rubidium: but you need to do that from old ottd saves too?
13:09:47 * Belugas puts headsets on and fires up NIN's new opus
13:10:04 <Ammler> its specially is much work, because "good" TTDP saves have many WPs because of the old pathfinder :-)
13:10:04 <Rubidium> Ammler: but that setting was stored in the savegame
13:10:47 <Ammler> but I am lucky, the map isn't that big. :-)
13:11:09 <Rubidium> but if you can tell me what bit to check specifically it might not be impossible to do
13:11:32 <Ammler> Rubidium: I would say, you could assume, every TTDP save does need converting
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13:28:04 <Belugas> Ammler, question: why woukld you like to load ttdp game in ottd? you do not have ttdp running already? just... finding it a bit strange
13:28:34 <Ammler> of course, it's not important, I just liked to compare some features
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13:29:01 <Ammler> just saw the commit from rubidum with the rivers, so I tried and it worked :-)
13:40:14 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13067 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the DepotWindow.
13:40:27 * peter1138 ponders downloading the 24bit 96kHz version of that
13:42:54 <peter1138> well i have hda audio
13:42:57 <peter1138> so i might as well try it ;)
13:43:04 * peter1138 suspects it will make no different
13:43:46 <Belugas> mp3s are really fine for me :)
13:43:59 <peter1138> i'm downloading them too ;)
13:45:06 <peter1138> flac and m4a lossless in fact
13:45:09 <Gekz> we are talking about NiN arent we
13:45:23 <peter1138> yeah... should be noisy anyway ;)
13:45:38 <Gekz> its pretty second rate that album
13:45:47 <Gekz> Echoplex is the only alright song
13:45:50 <peter1138> it's free, so i'm not bothered
13:45:52 <Gekz> has a retarded riff and a half lol
13:46:12 <Gekz> but yet, i put it on repeat
13:46:22 <Gekz> the eery shitness of it keeps me coming back
13:48:59 <Belugas> tracks 8 and 9 are not noisy, as per say. quite the contrary
13:49:33 <Gekz> makes you feel like cutting someone
13:49:58 <Belugas> you're too young to understand music
13:50:09 <Belugas> that or you have noe even listened to it
13:50:19 <Gekz> or, I actually have a taste in music
13:50:20 <Belugas> which is a sign of youth either way
13:50:45 <Gekz> and I don't just listen to one or two genres of music
13:51:53 <Belugas> i think i qualify for a LOT of music style :P
13:52:03 <Gekz> oh dear, you must be a youth
13:52:48 <Belugas> welll.. thanks :) it's nice been treated as youth when you're 43 :D
13:53:25 <Gekz> oh, it seems you have a weird obsession for NiN
13:53:41 <Gekz> Alice Cooper, you _are_ old :P
13:55:05 <Belugas> no... i've got a wide variety of tastes. and NIN seems to be misunderstood as a great musical composer :P
13:55:06 <peter1138> top artists this week: garbage
13:55:26 <Belugas> yeah... discovering :)
13:55:33 <peter1138> nin ghosts was great for background working music, heh
13:56:23 <peter1138> hehe, my compatibility is still super :D
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13:58:37 <Belugas> let's run a marathon to put it at 100%!!
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14:14:42 <bowman> last.fm compatibility fails completely for my user hehe
14:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Taste-O-Meter: Deine musikalische Übereinstimmung mit Belugas ist: Sehr niedrig"
14:17:27 <Sacro> bowman: who do you know?
14:17:44 <bowman> know of the others by reputation :)
14:18:12 * Sacro met him a few weekends ago
14:18:36 <bowman> have you seen their ball pit hehe
14:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> with orudge it's "very high" ;)
14:19:41 <bowman> too much weird stuff in my scrobbler log
14:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: and you listen to music made by yourself ;)
14:21:19 <Belugas> what would be the point otherwise ? ;)
14:21:40 <Sacro> tht search engine is pretty awesome
14:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... relation to oruge changed to "super"
14:21:55 <Sacro> though it looks like it piggybacks onto google
14:28:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13068 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp window_type.h): -Codechange: make a class of the BuildVehicleWindow.
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14:36:34 <Belugas> Head Down : goooood noise!
14:43:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13069 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: it is no longer needed to pass a void *data pointer with the WE_CREATE message because nothing uses it anymore.
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14:56:06 <Digitalfox> I see many new class's are being created.. What is the main advantage of them vs what the code had before?
14:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> less ugly hacks
14:57:58 <Belugas> naaa.... that is just fighting boredom
14:58:55 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13070 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13069): do save before commit...
14:59:22 <Digitalfox> belugas are you bored? Go create some new features so we can spam your inbox with bug reports =0
14:59:54 <Digitalfox> I see eddi, I did try to compare the old code with the new, but wasn't really sure what it did in the end
15:00:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13071 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make also a class of the MainWindow.
15:00:23 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: take a look at the WP macro are the related variables
15:00:42 <Belugas> well... actually, the feature i'm working on takes longuer to be released since somebody always finds new stuff, and so do i :S
15:00:48 <Digitalfox> will do Rubidium :)
15:01:09 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Belugas: hooray for "new stuff"
15:01:21 <Belugas> Digitalfox, comparing old and new code is a good exercise for getting near insanity!
15:01:37 <Digitalfox> Belugas well I'm trying to leran ;)
15:01:41 <glx> I can't even fully read my diffs :)
15:02:24 <Digitalfox> Belugas but I want to get insane so I'll be early retired with a good penson =0
15:02:33 <Belugas> the best way is to see the code before and the code after...
15:04:55 <Digitalfox> Anyway got to go.. More 3 hours of Mathematics :p
15:05:31 <Digitalfox> And then another 3 hours of html and css :(
15:06:21 <Digitalfox> I would love to have some equipment like Matrix where you insert a CD and get all the knowledge of that area =0
15:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> so? build it ;)
15:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you build it, he will come :p
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15:08:48 <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 want to help building that machine? Ww will split 50/50 the profits =0
15:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> err... i don't think so...
15:10:41 <Digitalfox> Yeah, I'll ask belugas, he looks like a mad scientist, so maybe he can come with some good ideas on how to build it .. =0
15:11:14 <Digitalfox> Belugas want to earn some money?
15:11:38 <Belugas> if it means more work, no :P
15:12:16 <Digitalfox> Belugas well we could become the next google company if it sells good =0
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15:16:13 <Ammler> is there a global make config file around which I could set -j to a default value?
15:20:33 <Sacro> i only have /etc/makepkg.conf
15:20:37 <Sacro> but that's distro specific
15:20:50 <Sacro> can't you set $MAKEOPTS/
15:21:10 <Ammler> an alias make="make -j 6" should work too?
15:21:33 <Sacro> cos that'd cripple gentoo
15:22:04 <Ammler> oh, I certainly do not use gentoo
15:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> i totally saw that coming :p
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15:25:54 <Ammler> I tried with alias make --help, seems to work :-)
15:28:36 <Ammler> Sacro: do you use Gentoo?
15:28:36 <peter1138> hmm, winamp won't do 24 bit audio :o
15:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: isn't that just a codec thing?
15:30:34 <Sacro> peter1138: you need a better codec
15:31:53 <bowman> inputplugin/outputplugin rather
15:32:00 <peter1138> it's a 24bit/96kHz wave file
15:32:28 <bowman> well what do you plan on doing with it hehe
15:32:50 <bowman> typically you'd want to output it untouched digitally
15:33:18 <bowman> avoiding any pc soundhardware and os mixers/audioframeworks
15:36:21 <peter1138> typically i'd want to output it to my speakers
15:36:38 <bowman> probably need to downsample it then
15:37:08 <peter1138> yeah, because 24bit/192kHz hardware support is not enough
15:37:31 <bowman> not when the os mixer uses 48khz :)
15:37:36 <bowman> but thats windows hehe
15:39:01 <peter1138> it's set to 24bit/192kHz, so i don't see why the mixer would downsample to 48kHz
15:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: well, a program that just pipes the unmodified input directly to the output does qualify as a (trivial) codec ;)
15:39:56 <bowman> you can bypass the mixer with kernel streaming plugins, but you lose some features like volume control (and well, mixing)
15:40:17 <bowman> its a different audioframework altogether in vista though
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15:41:22 <peter1138> well i'm using vista
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15:42:43 <peter1138> works perfectly well for me
15:43:09 <bowman> then you might get it working with the existing plugins, but avoid directsound output since thats entire api is software emulated
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15:53:13 <peter1138> hmm, foobar has '24 bit output' option
15:53:21 <peter1138> but no indication of what's actually happening, heh
15:53:33 <orudge> well, it helps if you have 24-bit input too, of course
15:53:37 <orudge> at least, for it to make any difference p
15:53:47 <peter1138> 16:31 @peter1138> it's a 24bit/96kHz wave file
15:53:54 <bowman> check vistas audio device properties, there are a ton of options there
15:54:09 * orudge can play 24-bit audio with foobar, ffdshow, winamp, etc
15:54:13 <orudge> most of which have a status-type thing somewhere
15:54:32 <peter1138> yeah, winamp says it's outputing at 16bit
15:55:21 <orudge> I like its UI, it's relatively straightforward and mostly uncluttered
15:56:05 <peter1138> well it's configuration ui i mean
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15:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> be glad, now you have a spare apostrophe that you can gift those who are lacking them
16:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... "give" does not completely cover what i wanted to say
16:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> the problem is, in german, there is a connection between "das Geschenk" [a gift] and "schenken" [to make a gift]
16:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> and it's really weird that this doesn't translate into english
16:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, ther is clearly no etymological relation between "a gift" and "to donate" :p
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18:37:52 <bpZero> so two trains at a station load at the same time. how do you make one train load and leave before the other train begins loading?
18:39:09 <Belugas> that's not realistic!
18:39:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13072 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix (r12995): possible out-of-bounds access
18:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> bpZero: there's a patch option "improved loading"
18:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> (not to confuse with "gradual loading")
18:41:28 <bpZero> Eddi|zuHause3: ah, perfect
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19:53:43 <ln> how universally understood is this sedish language
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20:01:56 <ln> Sacro: 22:52 < hylje> s/China/Far East/
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20:17:22 <Sacro> anyone here that writes .spec files?
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20:27:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13073 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make classes of the NewGRF windows
20:28:30 <Ammler> Sacro: there is one spec file in the openttd repo :-)
20:29:35 <Sacro> trying to go from a spec to a pkgbuild
20:29:47 <Sacro> i'm guessing %build i do
20:29:57 <Sacro> and then %install is done when the package is installed
20:30:41 <Sacro> Ammler: where is said spec file
20:32:04 <Ammler> Sacro: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/os/debian
20:33:32 <Sacro> actually, this rpm doesn't use gacutil
20:33:56 <Sacro> what is $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_prefix}
20:34:06 <Ammler> but you know now, who can write those :-)
20:34:36 <Sacro> yes, that's why i love Arch
20:40:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13074 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: For multiheaded engines, halve power and running cost when used instead of when loading, to allow callback values to work properly.
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21:09:39 <Sacro> O(2^n) is crap efficiency, yes?
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21:11:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13075 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange: Allow any value for a dropdown item instead of just positive.
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21:15:31 <Sacro> O(2^n), O(n^2), O(n log n), O(log n), O(n)
21:15:33 <Sacro> is that most to least inefficient?
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21:16:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13076 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2012]: the wrong autoreplace window would be shown if the vehicle isn't a train.
21:16:53 <Rubidium> Sacro: generally yes
21:17:07 <Sacro> Rubidium: yes, I know for end cases, like where N=0
21:17:18 <Rubidium> though O(n!), O(2^n) ..., O(n), O(1)
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21:18:21 <Rubidium> oh, O(n log n), O(n), O(log n) though (not Sacro's order)
21:18:37 <Dominik> err, other way round ^^
21:19:14 <Sacro> oh yes, I suppose log n is less than n
21:23:25 * Sacro doesn't quite get quadratic probing
21:28:54 <ln> which motion picture begins with the words "i love america"?
21:36:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13077 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_func.h openttd.cpp): -Codechange: move function that updates cached num_engines to engine.cpp, make it run only 1 loop
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21:50:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13078 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix: group gui used the vehicle type before it was actually set.
21:55:44 <Sacro> i don't get reverse polish notation
21:57:18 <Sacro> a + b - c * (d + e) / f
21:58:05 <Sacro> left of brackets stays to left
21:58:57 <Rubidium> a b + d e + c * f / -
22:02:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13079 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Fix: certain compilers give false warning about uninitialized variable
22:02:49 <Sacro> Rubidium: how did you do that?
22:03:39 <Rubidium> hmm, actually I should've written a b + c d e + f / * -
22:04:27 <Sacro> i'm reading the shunting yard algorithm
22:04:33 <Rubidium> anyhow, just write down how you have to solve the formula
22:05:49 <Rubidium> Sacro: easiest way is writing the formula as a tree
22:05:52 <peter1138> a + b - c * (d + e) / f == a b + c d e + * f / -
22:06:41 <Rubidium> then go over it in post-order (IIRC) and write every node down
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22:17:01 <Sacro> but that isn't what anyone else has said?
22:19:34 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13080 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix: warning about unused variable when compiling without asserts
22:21:26 <peter1138> mine is clearly wrong
22:22:32 <peter1138> 1 2 3 4 5 + * 6 / - + p
22:24:22 <peter1138> sort of like (ab+)((c(de+)*)f/)-
22:24:47 <peter1138> mine is right, i had just on the stack :o
22:25:34 <peter1138> but there are indeed multiple answers
22:25:41 <peter1138> ooh, electrickery flickery :o
22:26:04 <Sacro> oh god, got variables to substitute now
22:26:09 <Sacro> i wonder if my calculator does it
22:27:54 <Sacro> peter1138: actually, the brackets help an awful lot
22:32:33 <Sacro> think i'm getting it now
22:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Sacro> O(2^n) is crap efficiency, yes? <- depends on what kind of algorithm you have...
22:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have seen algorithms that have an EXPSPACE lower bound :p
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22:42:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13081 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Fix: Empty while-loop warnings from gcc 4.3+
22:43:39 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: we aren't given an algorithm
22:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> EXPSPACE is way worse than EXPTIME
22:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> but then there's still EXPEXPTIME :p
22:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> complexity classes are independent of implementation
22:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> they say no implementation can ever be significantly faster than that
22:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> recursion theory is so funny ;)
22:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> growth functions and all
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22:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you have algorithms in EXPSPACE dimensions, the whole P=NP issue is like peanuts :)
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continue to next day ⏵
