IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-05
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02:02:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12950 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: two includes is one too much
02:11:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12951 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix(r9762)[FS#1977): Revert the new difficulty settings of town and industries back to their initial values.
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04:37:17 <k-man> do you get paid more for longer hauls?
04:49:05 <k-man> that seems strange to me
04:49:47 <k-man> its too easy to maniplulate
04:50:11 <k-man> i'm not sure of the solution
04:50:31 <k-man> but somehow it just seems to easy to place your stations at opposite ends of the map to maximise profit
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05:25:29 <echinos> k-man: well, you don't usually start with enough money to do that, depending on map size...
05:25:46 <k-man> but do you see my point?
05:25:49 <echinos> but yeah, money is normally not a problem in openttd
05:26:07 <echinos> the challenge is more about building good train networks
05:26:35 <echinos> and, I guess, see just how much money you can make
05:26:53 <k-man> but why ship things across the map if you can ship it locally
05:27:05 <echinos> I couldn't make money the first few times I played it, 'cause I didn't know about the distance thing
05:27:09 <k-man> maybe if there was more penalty for the time taken
05:27:19 <k-man> ie closer deliveries would be more profitable cos they are faster
05:28:03 <echinos> that would be bad on the other end of the scale though... you could spend a *tiny* amount of money and make a lot
05:28:42 <k-man> imagine its more a supply and demand thing
05:28:43 <echinos> forcing you to make long rail lines complicates things pretty fast ;)
05:28:59 <echinos> I think it's just a game mechanics thing, really
05:29:05 <k-man> the price of a comodity should be the same, but cost of delivery is higher for longer distances
05:29:45 <echinos> yeah, but you're not involved in the commodity price, just delivery
05:29:58 <echinos> who knows what the power station is paying the coal mine
05:31:59 <Noldo> I wonder if the power station is able to add the super high transport costs to the consumer price
05:32:58 <echinos> so that they can't afford cars and have to take public transit ;)
05:33:07 <k-man> i can see why its done the current way
05:33:13 <k-man> i just wonder if theres a better way
05:35:38 <k-man> the other way would require a lot of supply and demand modeling
05:35:43 <k-man> it would be very complex
05:35:55 <k-man> more like sim city than a transport game
05:37:05 <Noldo> money could be renamed to building points or something like that
05:41:23 <echinos> well, there are a few things I've seen, but they're like certain passengers wanting a certain destination
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06:23:28 <Roest> alberth i see lots of your stuff made it into trunk
06:24:27 <Alberth> yeah, very good. Rubidium as usual did also some improvements to my patches.
06:24:56 <Roest> lets see what's broken now :)
06:25:31 <Alberth> nothing, they are all just code changes..... :)
06:25:43 <Roest> window_gui.h:297: error: ‘void (* Window::wndproc)(Window*, WindowEvent*)’ is private
06:26:17 <Alberth> use w->HandleWindowEvent(e) instaed
06:27:43 <Roest> _place_proc(e->we.place.tile);
06:28:11 <Alberth> hmm, Rubidium did more... I need to have a look!
06:28:50 <Roest> well it happened within the last 20 commits, so not too much to check
06:29:55 <Alberth> how do you manage your patches?
06:30:07 <Alberth> (in particular the patch sequences for trunk?)
06:32:30 <Alberth> I use SVN to update 'my' trunk, then make branches with bzr from that, and create my patches in the branches. However, I am not really happy with this approach
06:33:30 <Roest> right now i did a fresh checkout and try to apply my 12930 patchpack
06:36:23 <Alberth> since my patches are usually too big for one patch file, after I created the patch, I make another branch, and copy changes over to the new branch until I have a patch for trunk. Then I commit the new branch with bzr, copy more changes, etc etc until I have a sequence of trunk-ready patches
06:37:53 <Alberth> ie I use bzr intermediate commit's for handling the incremental changes, and generating the diffs
06:40:01 <Roest> since i do no trunk stuff and most patches arent mine i just keep them close to a current rev, combine them in packs of 3, then merge them all
06:41:37 <Alberth> you update each patch file to trunk, and then merge them together to construct your patch pak?
06:42:23 <Roest> but that's the general idea
06:42:40 <Roest> no point in updating everything if there's just 20 revs between
06:43:02 <Alberth> as long as it merges correctly, I guess
06:43:30 <Alberth> I see we have a Window constructor, I see
06:43:49 <Roest> airport_gui.cpp line 101, this compiled just fine
06:44:12 <Roest> the exact same code in the copy_paste_gui.cpp does not
06:45:58 <Roest> maybe you dont have the same airport_gui.cpp line 101, i see this is modified too
06:46:26 <Roest> gonna find out what this changed to, it's used all over the place
06:48:46 <Roest> i'm not awake yet i guess
06:48:56 <Alberth> no, it seems line 142/143
06:48:58 <Roest> getting up at 6:45 has its drawbacks
06:49:53 <Alberth> I was up at 6:00 already (and it is my last day off, I must be doing something wrong..)
06:50:06 <Roest> if (button < CPW_FIRST_CLICKABLE || !(w = FindWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0)) || w->wndproc != CopyPasteWndProc) {DeleteWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0);
06:51:42 <Alberth> niet nog een hacky compare tegen een adres van een window event handler!!
06:52:07 <Roest> oh damn, if he falls back to his native language he's angry
06:52:28 <Alberth> well, it is your patch ;)
06:52:43 <Roest> nah copypaste is frostregens
06:52:55 <Alberth> the same hack was also in build toolbar windows
06:53:26 <Roest> he probably does it how i do it, look how it's done in other windows and copy the code
06:53:38 <Alberth> we had 3 WC_BUILD_STATION windows (for ships, planes, and trains)
06:54:04 <Alberth> train build compared against its winproc to check it is the right one.
06:54:35 <Alberth> Rubidium fixed that by using a different window_number for each build station window (at least that is what the log said)
06:56:58 <Alberth> - Window *w = FindWindowById(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR, 0);
06:57:23 <Roest> looking at the patch right now
06:58:04 <Alberth> how many WC_COPY_PASTE windows exist?
06:59:38 <Roest> just one, looks pretty clear now, just have to add the type in openttd.h and copy the code from the patch
07:00:27 <Alberth> you can simply remove the w->wndproc check then (it should never fail)
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07:13:01 <Benny22Canberra> can anyone send me this damn sample.cat file? haha
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07:16:29 <cjk> much faster than asking anyone here to squeeze it through their modem line
07:17:19 <Alberth> I would have done that first, before asking
07:17:34 <cjk> not everyone is as smart :)
07:18:13 <Alberth> well, apparently, he considers asking in a channel faster than looking for it.
07:19:05 <Alberth> so maybe I am just doing things the wrong way here :P
07:19:12 <cjk> Roest: so you got it working now?
07:19:37 <Roest> yea, not sure if it's a good permanent solution
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07:19:47 <cjk> well, what is good in your opinion?
07:20:12 <Roest> i'm just using alpha test now instead of alpha blending
07:20:35 <Roest> this is ok if the alpha is just binary
07:21:34 <cjk> well now try applying a 50% alpha to the entire image and see if it dims correctly
07:22:01 <cjk> also, or perhaps instead, you might want to wrap the 3d window into its own program
07:22:08 <Roest> i don't want it to dim, i needed to removed the boxes from around the brain area
07:22:32 <cjk> if it's just that, you should have looked at asteroids3D, which does just the same
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07:58:36 <Roest> anyone with forum mod rights here?
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08:01:49 <Roest> is there a trainset that has all freight types in mag levs?
08:10:03 <Roest> peter can you do me a favor please?
08:16:43 <planetmaker> Hey, Roest, what's wrong with my post??
08:18:07 <planetmaker> nvm. Mixed up browser tabs :P
08:19:08 <planetmaker> sorry :) I guess it's good my tea just is ready :P
08:19:20 * Alberth puts book about elementary counting back on the shelf
08:19:27 <Roest> apparently you need something stronger
08:19:37 <planetmaker> Tea lasts longer than coffee :)
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08:50:33 <cjk> hm, what directory in ~/.openttd do I need to put new GRFs in?
08:51:19 <Ammler> maybe you need to create it
08:51:43 <cjk> it tries ~/.openttd/data, but the newgrf dialog does not list any of the GRFs I added
08:52:18 <Ammler> or which Version of ottd do you use?
08:53:26 <cjk> meh openttd just crashed after adding all ECS grfs
08:53:58 <Ammler> cjk: did you try it on a running game?
08:54:07 <Ammler> or do you have an error msg?
08:54:08 <cjk> yes it works after a restart
08:54:21 <cjk> afte rhitting "apply" on the newgrf dialog the thing just segfaulted
08:54:35 <cjk> since it works after a restart i'm all happy already :p
08:54:54 <Ammler> cjk: just have the town vector as first
08:56:05 <cjk> hm the sand pit just loses sand even if I am not transporting! :p
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08:56:43 <Roest> it has a hole deep down inside
09:01:43 <cjk> so do you happen to know what hopper to use for sand?
09:02:19 <cjk> i do have the town vector
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09:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess this huge warning saying "OTTD may crash if you do this" does have its purpose :p
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09:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you change newgrfs within a running game
09:05:04 <cjk> i was not in a game, unless the title screen is a game
09:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> that should work...
09:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> in that case, try to reproduce it ;)
09:06:07 * Roest waits for the global warming to arrive
09:06:17 <SmatZ> Alberth: to the newgrf author I would say
09:07:33 <Alberth> I don't know whether it works in TTDP, no Win* machine in the building
09:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> wine ttdpatchw.exe -y
09:08:12 <Roest> bash: wine: command not found :P
09:09:35 <Alberth> Eddi: Does that work without a Win* OS? (I assume not)
09:15:42 <SpComb> patchman used to develop TTDPatch on OS X
09:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: wine works without having windows
09:17:22 <Alberth> Eddi: So Ammler told me (thanks!). Getting it installed now.
09:30:47 <Frostregen> hmm, i can deliver (and get paid for) the same cargo multiple times
09:31:12 <Frostregen> by interrupting the unloading process, after beeing paid
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09:33:38 <SmatZ> I don't think this was even possible in 0.5
09:33:59 <SpComb> Frostregen: do you get the same amount of cash each time?
09:34:42 <Frostregen> slightly less, as some goods get lost
09:35:04 <Frostregen> i tested it with 12951
09:35:13 <Frostregen> but should work with 0.6 too
09:35:47 <SpComb> and I guess it works in multiplayer as well, then?
09:36:00 <Frostregen> there should be no difference
09:36:02 <SmatZ> Frostregen: what do you mean by 'interrupting the unloading proces'? sending train to depot?
09:36:50 <Frostregen> in my first setup i needed to unload/load the cargo at another station
09:37:01 <Frostregen> before getting money for it again
09:38:19 <Frostregen> maybe the payment should be after unloading all cargo?
09:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> each cargo package should remember if it has been paid for
09:39:44 <peter1138> how about not letting the vehicle move when it's unloading
09:40:13 <SmatZ> Frostregen: I really can't reproduce it
09:40:25 <Maedhros> hmm. i thought we'd fixed that at one point (a long time ago)
09:40:29 <Frostregen> i'm creating a savegame...
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09:45:33 <Alberth> Hmm, should anything happen when starting ttdpatch, other than the CPU load jump to 1? :P
09:45:56 <Alberth> Also tried a Windows version, but cannot get it installed
09:46:38 <Alberth> Maybe it doesn't like my AMD-64 CPU :)
09:47:05 <Alberth> (although running Linux in 32bit mode)
09:49:53 <Maedhros> it's worked fine with my amd64 for years ;)
09:50:15 <blathijs> Alberth: Apart from the fact that this is #openttd, and not #ttdpatch, I assume ttdpatch should actually do something when started :-)
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09:52:00 <Alberth> blathijs: I expected that too. I'll just report the glitch mentioning that I only tested it with OpenTTD. Tnx all.
09:53:20 <blathijs> Alberth: Uh, I was suggesting you are mixing up projects. Are you having problems with OpenTTD, or with TTDPatch?
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09:56:07 <SmatZ> Frostregen: you take cargo
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09:56:50 <blathijs> Alberth: So you just mistyped, and nothing is TTDPatch related?
09:56:58 <blathijs> Or you were trying to compare with TTDPatch?
09:57:10 <Frostregen> open up train window, open train orders window, start train, click 2 times on "send to depot" right after payment, skip to next order, wait for unload/load, repeat
09:58:19 <Alberth> blathijs: SmatZ suggested to test it in TTDPatch, to check that OpenTTD code is correct (ie it is a NewGRF problem and not a C++ problem)
09:58:38 <Frostregen> (actually wait till train leaves, before second click on send to depot)
09:59:10 <SmatZ> Frostregen: interesting
09:59:21 <blathijs> Hmm, I should have read back a few lines before asking stupid questions :-)
09:59:28 <peter1138> lots of grfs do that. it is a grf 'problem'
10:00:02 <blathijs> What exactly is the glitch? I can't seem to find it in the screenshot
10:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> the wagons stick out of the window on the left
10:00:25 <peter1138> the latest version of nars does not do that
10:02:09 <Alberth> ok, I'll wait for ottdc grfpack 7.1
10:02:44 <peter1138> latest version being the prerelease of version 3, heh
10:03:02 <Maedhros> Frostregen: basically, this is just the problem that vehicles don't know not to pick up cargo that they just unloaded
10:03:28 <Frostregen> +it unsets some "this cargo is already paid" marker
10:03:54 <Frostregen> if i try to get directly paid for the cargo at another station, it doesnt work
10:03:55 <Maedhros> that marker is stored by the train, not the cargo
10:04:12 <Maedhros> so when you unload the cargo, the marker gets unset
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10:05:17 <Frostregen> it is hard to exploit anyway
10:10:51 <SmatZ> I think you should definitely report it
10:11:13 <SmatZ> but in a way that people won't start exploiting it :)
10:12:05 <Ammler> Alberth: not sure, if 7.1 will have new version of NARS
10:12:27 <Frostregen> i think peter1138 approach did sound good. just don't move trains until fully unloaded
10:12:42 <Alberth> Frostgen: now that you mention this problem, I remember weird cargo problems with ECS vector industries where you were just below the limit of what the industry accepted. Unfortunately, cannot really recall the details :(
10:13:09 <SmatZ> Frostregen: I think being paid after cargo unload is a better idea
10:13:19 <SmatZ> but it changes game behaviour...
10:13:33 <Frostregen> SmatZ: this introduces a possible leak of money
10:14:25 <Alberth> Ammler: Ah well, I'll take that chance. Just noticed it by accident
10:14:29 <SmatZ> Frostregen: you can store somewhere how much you should be paid
10:15:07 <SmatZ> or you could store the information that the packet has been unload in the cargo packet
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10:15:13 <Alberth> Would labeling the cargo as originating from the dest station help?
10:15:34 <SmatZ> you could unload it then at different station again
10:15:41 <Maedhros> cp->paid_for = false;
10:15:45 <Maedhros> /* When cargo is moved into another vehicle you have *always* paid for it */
10:15:53 <Maedhros> (cargopacket.cpp:209)
10:16:43 <Maedhros> that's probably what causes it (apparently whether the cargo is paid for *is* stored with the cargo now)
10:16:54 <Alberth> What about re-labeling from 'nowhere' (ie invalid station)?
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10:17:53 <Frostregen> so the question is, what other things depends on this line?
10:33:00 <Roest> lol, friend of mine has to fix a software project that was outsourced to india and failed
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10:44:50 <k-man_> is it possible to have a local game with no competitors?
10:45:32 <Roest> takes too much time to type it
10:45:59 <Roest> but i make you an offer, here: '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
10:46:08 <Roest> that should be enough for today and tomorrow
10:46:12 <Roest> after that you get more
10:46:44 <ln> Roest: your precious time should not be wasted, but all the hundreds of readers' time should?
10:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> not if i throw in anti-apostrophs: ,,,,,,, :p
10:47:12 <cjk> or reverse ones `````````
10:48:08 <peter1138> pressing ' is slow? :o
10:48:09 <Maedhros> "hundreds of [...] time" ? :-P
10:48:38 <Alberth> In: What precious readers' time were you referring to? :P
10:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> I am not l either
10:51:25 <Alberth> Ah, it's a different letter!
10:54:10 <st6> is the drive thru bus stop slower than the normal?
10:56:13 <Alberth> st6: Arriving and leaving buses don't get in each others' way
10:57:59 <cjk> Alberth: get a better font
11:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> problem with drive through is that you need a separate location for turning the busses
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11:04:30 <Alberth> cjk: Well, it's not better, but hopefully less confusing
11:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, road loops look kinda ugly... it'd look nicer if i could put a (one way) drive through stop on a curve
11:06:36 <cjk> how would that look like?
11:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that not an english word?
11:07:15 <Roest> don't know, our grammar and spelling cop didn't shout
11:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, say i have a road crossing
11:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i could put a "curved stop" next to it
11:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> where \ is the stop, and only to be used by busses
11:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> then the busses could go into the stop, and use the crossing to go back the way they came from
11:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> wait... we ARE a terrorism cell, right?
11:13:48 <cjk> the fact is they use it because it's more reliable (which is just what you want as a terrorist, no?)
11:14:09 <cjk> if every Qaeda bomb ran with Windows CE, uhm, expect 80% in failures
11:15:01 <cjk> bombiges Wetter heute ...
11:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> does that even have a proper translation?
11:15:43 <trd> wtb new forum buff: Flame resistance. Start out at 10% and work slowly towards 90%.
11:16:07 <trd> That was supposed to go to the Anarchy-Online channel.
11:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> we totally need that in openttd :p
11:16:39 <Roest> i was going to say the ottd forums are tame why would you need that here
11:17:07 <Roest> AO, there are still people playing that?
11:18:02 <trd> And I bet a lot of people will be returning to it when the new GFX engine is launched this fall :)
11:19:00 <Roest> not me, that release put funcom on my (very short) list of publishers i never buy a game from again
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11:19:56 <trd> EA is on my list.. and it's about it. I'm happy I wasn't around for the launch of AO though.
11:20:37 <Roest> that was by far the worst mmo launch i ever played
11:20:52 <trd> I don't doubt it. I heard it was... havoc.
11:21:25 <cjk> Eddi|zuHause2: perhaps "bombastic"
11:21:32 <trd> they're launching Age of Conan in a few weeks... Will be fun to watch how that goes. I think they've learned though.. that game was pushed back for at least two years.
11:21:40 <Roest> guess that lost them quite some customers
11:21:43 * cjk slaps Roest with a Deppenapostroph
11:25:22 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12952 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Indenting and codestyle
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11:36:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12953 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Feature: Open a new viewport when ctrl-clicking on a 'Location' button, a town/station/industry list, or some news items.
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11:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds cool
11:41:33 <cjk> i'd rather have it with the middle mouse button than ctrl+click
11:44:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:47:57 <orudge> Woo, my DOS-based dedicated server has been playing for around 8 hours (with a bunch of AI players) quite happily. Very slowly (one day is about 8 seconds), but it works. :P
11:48:51 <Roest> nice, a bunch of noai players or oldai?
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11:49:21 <orudge> ldnewai (as in, what was the "new ai" that did road vehicles)
11:49:57 <Maedhros> hmm. newspapers seem to ignore the transparent station signs settings
11:50:40 <cjk> oh so it's that masochistic feeling :)
11:50:48 <cjk> to get something to run on the weirdest archs
11:50:57 <SmatZ> Maedhros: newspaper ignore all trnasparency and invisibility settings
11:50:58 <Roest> cjk didn't you know, orudge is also the maintainer of the Z80 port
11:51:41 <orudge> cjk: well, I wrote an OS/2 port. ;) I also ported OpenTTD to DOS back in early 2004, but that port fell into disuse, so I decided to report it. This time, I got networking working, too :D
11:54:13 <orudge> Well, I had a dedicated server running fine (256x256 map) on a virtual machine with 16MB of RAM. When I tried to load a few newgrfs though, it crashed with an out of memory error.
11:54:23 <cjk> command.com, 60k. NDIS driver, ?k. TCP stack, 80k.
11:54:26 <trd> Wonder if OTTD works on netbsd. Would be fun to boot a playstation into NetBSD just to play OTTD.
11:54:47 <cjk> no way that fits into 640k
11:55:12 <Maedhros> i think netbsd support was committed a few days ago, actually
11:55:15 <orudge> cjk: obviously, OpenTTD uses DPMI on DOS, it doesn't really care about the low memory area
11:55:52 <orudge> anyway, the TCP/IP stack is built into OpenTTD (it uses WATTCP). So all that's needed is a packet driver in memory.
11:57:22 <orudge> FreeDOS 1.0 comes with a whole load of packet drivers, and lots of network-enabled applications. It's quite fun. Maybe OpenTTD will be bundled with a future version of FreeDOS, when our graphics and sound are free. ;)
11:59:37 <cjk> given that most people run Windows or some *nux anyway....
12:00:41 <orudge> Well, yes, "most people" run a more modern OS. But if we can give something to those who still choose to use the likes of DOS or OS/2, then why not? I know at least one user who says they'd find a DOS port of OpenTTD useful, so if anything else, that's one user I've made happy. ;)
12:01:17 <peter1138> cjk: we have no code at all for middle-mouse button handling
12:01:23 <cjk> some 3 year old with grandpa's 386 :)
12:02:05 <peter1138> OpenTTD under DOS will rock :D
12:02:32 <peter1138> can we have a VESA video driver? heh
12:03:01 <cjk> seems to be the same more or less
12:03:16 <peter1138> i don't know if it is
12:03:28 <peter1138> svgalib is not a dos thing, after all
12:03:43 <cjk> I am inclined to believe that SVGA is a card-specific operation, while VESA is that general thing provided by the BIOS+card
12:03:47 <orudge> peter1138: yes, you'll be able to use VESA
12:04:12 <Roest> and sound is speaker output?
12:04:23 <peter1138> hmm, yes, sound drivers :o
12:04:44 <ln> VGA ought to be enough for anyone
12:05:17 <orudge> video support will be: standard VGA, Mode-X, VESA, VBE/2.0,VBE/3.0, VBE/AF
12:05:45 <ln> cjk: what are you talking about?
12:05:53 <orudge> sound support: SB 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, Pro, 16, ESS AudioDrive, Ensoniq Sound System, Windows Sound System
12:06:05 <ln> source for this piece information?
12:06:23 <orudge> cjk: indeed it does. I'd probably recommend 640x480 as a minimum. ;)
12:06:40 <cjk> 640x480x4bit is also some sort of VGA, right. But a not so colorful one.
12:07:11 <orudge> and just for good measure - MIDI: Adlib, OPL2, OPL3, SB midi, MPU-401, DIGMID (software samples), AWE32
12:08:09 <orudge> My intention is to use the Allegro game library for OpenTTD. Allegro can also be used on a bunch of other platforms, but I think we already have ports to most, if not all, of those.
12:08:26 <Gekz> I want OpenTTD in ASCII glory damn itr
12:08:30 <orudge> (do we have a QNX port?)
12:09:07 <cjk> ln: it's mostly correct, but it is missing the bit depth, which was very important in the early days.
12:09:23 <Gekz> so we're porting ottd to dos
12:09:37 <SmatZ> orudge: is there any unified interface for sound and video? even when you have a very old VGA card? (without VESA extensions)
12:09:38 <orudge> porting? it's already been ported, mostly :P
12:09:57 <orudge> esides, TTD started off on DOS, we may as well port OpenTTD back to TTD's spiritual home :P
12:10:30 <orudge> SmatZ: well, the VESA standards are the closest things to a "unified standard", with VBE/* being newer versions of it
12:10:35 <Gekz> port it to AIX so you can call yourself satanic
12:11:20 <orudge> as for sound - almost everything is Sound Blaster compatible
12:11:22 <cjk> cga was - in qbasic and LOTS of games (Blues Brothers, Commander Keen) - cga=320x200x2,640x200x2,640x400x2, ega=320x200x4,640x350x4, vga=320x200x8, theother vga =640x480x4,640x400x4, herc=720x576(or so)x2 and svga=640x480x8,800x600x8,...
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12:12:40 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
12:13:35 <stillunknown> Doesn't vbe give you access to higher resolutions?
12:13:51 <stillunknown> eg, non-text modes
12:15:38 <stillunknown> Well, it's a vesa extension iirc.
12:16:08 <orudge> used to play various Allegro games in resolutions that my CRT didn't really like supporting back in the day - 2048x1536 type things
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12:17:54 <peter1138> 320x200x8bpp was MCGA/VGA
12:18:29 <peter1138> (VGA because CGA and EGA couldn't do it, but MCGA was not very common)
12:19:03 <Brianetta> Multiple knifing in Leeds
12:19:14 <Brianetta> I wonder if that would have made a national headline int her US
12:19:30 <Gekz> they're busy bitching about which idiot will win the election
12:19:35 <Gekz> it doesnt matter, you're screwed either way
12:20:17 <Brianetta> They only let US-born Americans become president. I think they should reverse that entirely; only allow foreigners to lead them.
12:21:39 <Brianetta> peter1138: He's not foreign
12:21:58 <Brianetta> No, he's a US citizen
12:22:15 <Brianetta> I'm talking totalk foreigners; if they don't speak English, that's better
12:22:28 <Brianetta> Get some Chinese peasant to take the reigns
12:22:28 <peter1138> you said US-born, heh
12:22:42 <Brianetta> No, I stated their rules
12:22:50 <Brianetta> I said "reverse that entirely"
12:23:10 <Brianetta> reins, as in horse, not reigns, as in what a king does
12:23:26 <Brianetta> You can't take the reigns
12:23:57 <Brianetta> Just making that mistake in the first place fills me with shame; I know better.
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12:27:30 <Gekz> my girlfriend had a dream about me stealing someones wallet lolo
12:35:24 <Gekz> Roest: doesnt put your hand there! That's my e-penis :/
12:36:16 <Roest> the apostroph cop just got you
12:36:45 <Gekz> my apostrophe key doesnt work
12:37:18 <Gekz> theres so much gunk under that key
12:37:43 <ln> Gekz: in the meanwhile, you can write "does not", "will not", etc.
12:38:23 <Roest> blah stupid irc [14:41] [Nickname] Erroneous Nickname
12:39:16 <Roest> i need a forum ignore option
12:39:36 <Roest> someone write me a greasemonkey script plz
12:40:47 <Maedhros> doesn't adding people to your "enemies" list do that for you already?
12:40:59 <Roest> there is an enemies list?
12:40:59 * Maedhros has never tried it, though
12:41:57 <Maedhros> Roest: "Friends and Foes" in the user control panel (if you're using the English translation)
12:43:22 <Maedhros> "TTD is counted as abandonware by the original publishers"
12:44:22 <ln> do they link to the announcement by the original publishers?
12:46:35 <Gekz> and abandonware is a phallacy anyway
12:46:43 <Gekz> it just means noone has the money to sue you if you screw with their code
12:49:33 <peter1138> on a bank holiday :o
12:49:45 <orudge> cjk: fyi, my network and LFN-enabled FreeDOS install currently uses 61KB of conventional memory, 21KB of upper memory, 362KB of reserved memory, and 1.4MB of extended memory (sitting at command.com). 577KB of conventional free, plenty ;)
12:49:50 * orudge 's lectures are cancelled
12:49:54 * orudge has a practical due in tonight though
12:50:07 <peter1138> how much does openttd take up?
12:50:35 <orudge> I don't know exactly, but I managed to run a dedicated server in 16MB of RAM (256x256 map) without problems
12:51:00 <orudge> once I added a chunk of newgrfs, it ran out of memory
12:51:09 <orudge> I'll have to perform some proper tests when I can
12:51:59 <peter1138> ooh, my bread is starting to smell nice
12:52:40 <Gekz> peter1138: how many days did you leave it out for
12:58:49 <peter1138> Gekz: -30 minutes so far
12:59:49 <Roest> My firewall says there is a virus in the file 'OpenTTDAutoUpdater.exe'. Is that true or not?
13:00:28 <planetmaker> ^^ don't frighten me... :S
13:01:22 <Roest> nice firewall too, mine dont have virus checks
13:03:03 <SmatZ> Roest: it connects somewhere and downloads an exe, so it may be considered dangerous by antivirus
13:03:15 <orudge> peter1138: well, openttd itself seems to use 80KB of conventional memory, plus 13.2KB for the DPMI server. Running a 256x256 map, no GRFs, dedicated server uses about 11MB of XMS
13:04:02 <Roest> i was going to answer yes it's true but it's too late already and he should cancel his CC card and telephone subscriptions
13:04:31 <Roest> but then i didnt because of the friendly spirit
13:04:53 <orudge> making it 1024x1024 seems to use 25MB of XMS
13:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> TTO used around 2.5MB i kinda remember
13:05:54 <orudge> 56MB XMS with 2048x2048
13:06:15 <orudge> it may be using EMS too, potentially, hmm
13:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never understood the difference in EMS and XMS
13:06:39 <orudge> ah, well, no, it'll just be the EMS isn't available because the XMS is using it ;)
13:06:48 <Gekz> my boss just got kicked out of his flat
13:06:57 <Gekz> and the chick that kicked him out told me on msn >_>
13:07:01 <Gekz> this whole situation makes me angry
13:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> go ask him for a raise now :p
13:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do not have an apostrophe key, write out the damn words!
13:08:39 <peter1138> orudge: so basically it's much like normal then :D
13:09:15 <orudge> seems to be, no reason it ought to be any different really
13:12:16 *** insulfrog has joined #openttd
13:12:58 <orudge> except that I need to go and do some actual academic work instead of hacking around with OpenTTD
13:14:26 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
13:15:41 <insulfrog> Has anyone used the latest 'MiniN' version of OTTD?
13:17:05 <insulfrog> I have just downloaded it a couple of days back and it includes an 'experimental' version of Path Based Signalling (PBS)
13:17:06 <Roest> isn't the last one rev 9000 something
13:17:27 <orudge> that was an old version of PBS
13:18:27 <Roest> ask orudge for the dos version too
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13:19:18 <insulfrog> I tried to but apparently, there appears to be something not correct as the OTTD version for that would not compile using Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition
13:20:02 <insulfrog> Let me just sort some stuff out, then I'll explain it all :)
13:20:30 <peter1138> unfortunately, miniin is dead
13:21:10 <peter1138> your statement is a bit like "Has anyone used the latest Windows ME version of Windows?
13:21:58 <Roest> so peter what is it with you and the analogies
13:24:09 <insulfrog> Now, do I need an SVN version of OTTD for the patch to work?
13:25:45 <insulfrog> now, the version that TortoiseSVN checkout gave me is r12954
13:30:24 <Alberth> Roest: In the mean time, you can prepare a response for the reject he'll get
13:30:54 <Roest> i'm trying to remember what the last problem with yapp was
13:31:12 <Roest> think the rectangle code change
13:31:27 <Roest> or maybe that was paxdest
13:31:49 <peter1138> something to do with non-uniform stations
13:33:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> easiest would be to tell him to "update" to 12697
13:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> (and make sure he's using trunk, instead of any branch)
13:34:36 <Roest> 2nd easiest would be using BuildOTTD
13:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, my bridge patch for miniin should be lying around somewhere still ;)
13:34:48 <Roest> easiest would be using an already existing binary
13:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> that won't help him build it with visual studio :p
13:40:18 <Rubidium> Roest: but pointing him to the location where those binaries are is lame ;)
13:41:08 <Roest> oh btw rubidum, what kind of warnings? gcc 4.2.1 gives none
13:41:29 * Roest fails at tab completion
13:42:04 <Rubidium> probably unused variables or empty blocks
13:42:26 <cjk> -Wall -Wformat=2 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 ... run that
13:42:35 <cjk> then perhaps, -Wredundant-decls too
13:44:12 <Rubidium> that last one gives loads of warnings
13:45:36 <Rubidium> seems it doesn't like compile time 'asserts'
13:46:01 <SmatZ> Roest: for (...); instead of for (...) { }
13:46:32 <SmatZ> gcc 4.3 gives warning for empty body of loops
13:46:32 <insulfrog> now what I was saying
13:46:39 <Alberth> Rubidium: those are inside the compiler :P
13:47:23 <Roest> smatz but that's a construct which is pretty often used, not only by me
13:48:03 <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
13:48:12 <peter1138> then it's an explicit empty body
13:48:25 <Alberth> SmatZ: Can't we keep the curly brackets? They are much better noticed than a semi-colon
13:48:55 <peter1138> Alberth: you read it the wrong way around :)
13:49:31 <Alberth> peter1138: noloc-imes a naht deciton retteb hcum era yehT ?stekcarb ylruc eht peek ew t'naC :ZtamS
13:49:43 <insulfrog> Now, I now download the latest patch for 'Yet Another PBS Patch' (YAPP) from you-know-where
13:50:13 <SmatZ> [15:48:04] <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
13:50:31 <Roest> insulfrog are insisting in compiling it yourself, if not there's also windows binaries posted in that thread
13:50:36 <Lakie> That would be more logical as its easier to follow.
13:50:41 <Lakie> Even though both are valid.
13:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> "warnings" are not about "valid", they are about "people often get this wrong"
13:52:14 <Lakie> Heh, sorry, I've been toding too much c#
13:52:19 <peter1138> one of the reasons our coding style enforces { } for multiline ifs
13:52:31 <Lakie> (In which null statements are valid but will give warnings)
13:54:00 <Lakie> Without the { } though, only the first instruction would be done with the if...
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13:55:33 <peter1138> one day i shall acquire commit rights to ttdpatch, to clean up its bit of C...
13:56:52 <Lakie> First you would have to write the .diff file or patch.
13:57:16 <peter1138> write a diff? how insane
13:58:57 <Lakie> I meant write the changes and generate a diff
13:59:40 <insulfrog> Now the latest patch is 'OpenTTD-r12934___yapp_r12810_v6_2_svn', bit I don't think that patch is compatible with OTTD build r12954, is it?
14:02:32 <Lakie> Depends on what it changes and the changes between the revisions.
14:06:14 * insulfrog backs up the build, then applies the patch
14:07:24 * insulfrog uses TortioseSVN to apply the patch
14:08:30 * insulfrog now attempt now to compile the build using Visual C++ Express
14:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> insulfrog: best you use tortoise to "update" to r12810 first
14:09:19 <Roest> nah the patch he uses is updated for 12934 already
14:10:28 <insulfrog> the build it its curent before I applied the patch
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14:13:12 * insulfrog starts the building process
14:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh... confusing naming scheme...
14:18:15 * insulfrog discovers there is 'png.h', 'zlib.h' and 'ft2build.h' missing from the project
14:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> did you try to build openttd without patch first?
14:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> did you get useful.zip?
14:20:15 * insulfrog tries building his backup
14:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no use making a "backup", svn does that for you automatically
14:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> just use "revert" from the tortoise menu
14:22:35 <insulfrog> I normally back up manually (just in case :p )
14:22:37 <Rubidium> if it is important, then somebody has mirrored your data, otherwise it is not important
14:23:58 <insulfrog> still the same .h files are still missing
14:24:44 <Roest> now are they missing or no entry in the .vcproj files?
14:24:53 <insulfrog> (must be something that visual studio express can't handle)
14:25:02 <Rubidium> insulfrog: have you followed the manual?
14:25:53 * Roest remembers that dilbert comic, engineers don't read manuals
14:26:16 <insulfrog> I did but, I don't think I understood it properly
14:29:06 <insulfrog> I think I missed the files you mentioned :p
14:32:57 * insulfrog downloaded the files and unzips them
14:33:30 <Sacro> you need the .h files in an include\ folder
14:35:30 <insulfrog> I use Visual Express (since its free :p )
14:36:06 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
14:37:03 <Lakie> Sacro: .h in include\ and .lib in lib\, and finally the dll in the excutable's folder in one of the folders of the PATH environment variable.
14:40:54 <Mihai> what's the channel for dev server ?
14:41:01 *** Mihai is now known as ropiku
14:41:09 <Belugas> there is none, as far as i know
14:41:16 <Belugas> you have this channel, of course
14:42:21 <ropiku> sorry, I mistaken with openttdcoop
14:43:19 <planetmaker> ropiku: #openttdcoop.dev
14:46:46 <FlashFF> Question: is there a openttd build that is a pure dedicated server? ie all of the extra stuff taken out and nicely optimised?
14:47:33 <Ammler> FlashFF: you could compile it self
14:47:55 <Ammler> but the size doesn't really matter
14:48:19 <FlashFF> i tore out all the extra stuff once, and made a nice server that auto reset and all that malarky, but due to a horrible hd fail i lost it all. Back to square 1 i suppose lol
14:48:20 <Ammler> and you won't have performance advantages
14:48:36 <insulfrog> are you sure that the dll(s) came with the openttd-useful download?
14:48:42 <FlashFF> yeah i was basically looking for a raw build i could alter
14:49:38 <FlashFF> My old version i added build in mysql support and a scheduler and such but the longest part of the whole thing was stripping out the extra bits
14:50:17 <FlashFF> note to self: backup more often
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14:52:47 <Ammler> FlashFF: well, you should also post your diffs to share such things
14:53:00 <Ammler> then you would have automatically a backup :P
14:55:34 <FlashFF> lol dunno how well the diff woulda worked, i really ripped it apart
14:55:37 <Roest> that whole global warming thing is a lie
14:55:51 <FlashFF> but the plan was to share it once it worked well enough
14:56:06 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
14:58:02 <FlashFF> my VirtualPC linux install is borked by the looks of it
14:59:49 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
14:59:57 <peter1138> it's about 35°C... in my greenhouse
15:00:28 <Roest> i can imagine you sitting in the green house with a laptop
15:00:45 <peter1138> the other thermometer says it's 25°C
15:03:15 <insulfrog> hmm... something is not right
15:04:12 <Roest> same not right as earlier or something different not right?
15:04:21 <insulfrog> where do you put these 'include' and 'lib' folders?
15:04:27 <Roest> if it's the latte you could say you're making progress
15:05:22 <insulfrog> (in your uncompiled OTTD folder or in your Visual C++ folder?)
15:07:36 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12955 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r12858): compilation with desync debug was broken
15:10:52 <insulfrog> don't know, perhaps you was studying Java :)
15:11:12 <Sacro> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC
15:12:54 <insulfrog> now, I have to figure out where it is compiled to
15:13:20 <Roest> that's usually easy to find out
15:19:30 <insulfrog> I found the exe in the debug folder :)
15:21:46 <insulfrog> I know that there are files to copy from the original TTD, but other than that, is there anything else to do?
15:25:54 <insulfrog> (no language packs?)
15:27:19 <Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng
15:27:29 <cjk> just $PACKAGEMANAGER install openttd
15:28:08 <cjk> ./configure: unknown argument: make
15:28:29 <cjk> at least do it the right way
15:28:44 <cjk> ./configure --install-dir=$PWD/rt && make install;
15:28:56 <Roest> now i know why it's not working
15:29:05 <cjk> Roest: www.doingitwrong.com
15:32:14 <blathijs> Sacro: That's a bad idea
15:32:29 <Sacro> blathijs: depends how quick the configure is :p
15:32:31 <blathijs> Now it will configure in the background while starting to make immediately :-)
15:32:59 <cjk> so it's not really an idea that eats your disk
15:33:19 <blathijs> Bash doesn't grok empty statements then?
15:33:29 <cjk> well, then _write_ an empty statement the right way
15:33:46 <cjk> but then again, ./configue & make is just faster (and wrong btw)
15:34:02 <cjk> running make while configure is not finished => www.doingitwrong.com
15:37:08 <cjk> hasselhoff is the better rickroll :p
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15:43:00 <insulfrog> ok, I have got it to run
15:43:51 <insulfrog> now, testing to make sure everything is working
15:45:31 * Roest gets his PBS for dummies
15:45:42 <insulfrog> there is a file that is not readable
15:46:04 <insulfrog> but the debug window does not say
15:47:08 <insulfrog> (there must be something missing)
15:51:18 * insulfrog wonders what file could be missing
15:55:13 <insulfrog> any ideas what file could be missing?
15:55:38 * Roest looks into crystal ball
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16:04:17 <glx> <Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng <-- no you need to move the exe in bin
16:05:48 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12956 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Code-style application on switch-case aligment
16:06:23 <insulfrog> cheers (gives everyone a thumbs up)
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16:12:08 <insulfrog> now, according to the YAPP thread, there is a 'patch' option, which allows you to turn on PBS signals and it is located under the 'construction' tab
16:13:00 <insulfrog> (YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch)
16:13:16 <Sacro> i've been playing OpenTTD for years
16:13:29 <insulfrog> I cannot seem to find that option
16:13:38 <Sacro> i don't recall that one
16:14:39 <Belugas> first contact i had with OpenTTD was with 0.3.4
16:14:49 <Sacro> Belugas: yes, i might have used 0.3.4
16:14:52 <Belugas> a few weeks after, 0.3.6 was out
16:16:14 *** lolEee is now known as loldragon
16:40:19 <insulfrog> to get PBS signals, no debut that I manually need to add 2 lines in the openttd.cfg file
16:44:01 <peter1138> and doubt is not spelled debut
16:48:31 <insulfrog> then how do you get PBS signals to work then?, I've applied the patch, built OTTD, now what?
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17:07:39 <insulfrog> I think I have REALLY missed something here...
17:08:30 <Progman> enable them in the settings
17:08:39 <Progman> there are new patch options
17:08:52 <Progman> first one is "show reserved tracks" which should be on
17:09:14 <Progman> if you dont have such an option you haven't build it properbly
17:12:40 <mabako> I wonder, could anyone explain me why my self-compiled linux server is unable to load any savegames, but the windows client (with vs2005 or buildottd) can load them fine?
17:13:06 <insulfrog> wait a minute..., I think I forgotten something
17:13:59 <Belugas> mabako : it's very hard to answer. We do not even kow what you've changed in your sources
17:14:15 <Belugas> nor the error message ou had
17:15:53 <mabako> well, i want to use something like the shared tracks patch for a more recent version (r12935), and have changed the feerder_share line in cargopacket.cpp to the following:
17:15:54 <mabako> SLE_CONDVAR(CargoPacket, feeder_share[0], SLE_INT64, 0, 95),
17:15:54 <mabako> SLE_CONDARR(CargoPacket, feeder_share, SLE_INT64, 8, 96, SL_MAX_VERSION),
17:16:29 <mabako> and i just get (when starting the server with -g)
17:16:30 <mabako> dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
17:17:09 <mabako> I've changed the savegame-version to 96 also, and I've no idea what might be the problem now
17:18:45 *** Chicago_Rail_Authority has joined #openttd
17:18:45 <insulfrog> ok, I 'think' I have got it, just need to test (don't celebrate too soon :p )
17:20:07 <insulfrog> if all goes well, I might play something else, like SimSig :D
17:21:10 <insulfrog> anyway, with this new PBS goes well, we can easily replicate several areas of SimSig :)
17:21:31 <insulfrog> (since they don;t use pre-signals :p )
17:21:37 <Sacro> insulfrog: yes, i got bored and replicated Kings Cross
17:22:16 <Sacro> though i get upset at the lack of ablilty to chose between a crossover and a single/double slip
17:22:23 * insulfrog thinks his bad fast typing is getting to the best of him, lol
17:25:09 <insulfrog> i got to go, bye :)
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17:26:38 <Belugas> mabako, exact same code on both machine? one works not the other? then, it might be related to what Sacro told you
17:26:57 <Belugas> best way to know : revert the linux version, try clean build
17:28:04 <mabako> I reverted it and applied the patch afterwards really
17:28:22 <Belugas> i mean, revert it totally,
17:29:04 <mabako> erm... I checked out with svn, then copied the file into another dir and applied the patch there
17:29:25 <mabako> ii zlib1g 1.2.3-13 compression library - runtime
17:29:25 <mabako> ii zlib1g-dev 1.2.3-13 compression library - development
17:29:37 <Belugas> have you ever tried a clean build before?
17:29:52 <mabako> how do i build it 'clean'?
17:30:12 <Belugas> import from svn, do not apply any patch, compile and run
17:30:37 <Belugas> YOu may have to translate to linux wording, as i only compile using msvc
17:30:49 <Belugas> you may try that first :)
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17:42:04 <mabako> Belugas: it works with a clean build, i can save & load games afterwards fine
17:42:50 <Belugas> thus, there is something that is broken on the patch
17:43:22 <Belugas> and it means that Sacro has lost!
17:50:02 <dih> # an the all go hand in hand...
17:59:44 <Belugas> + SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, shared_length, SLE_UINT32, 82, SL_MAX_VERSION), <---- 82 might be a little too low...
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18:03:07 <Belugas> what the heel is that stuff been done on depot_gui.cpp???
18:03:41 * Belugas resumes some real work...
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18:20:09 <mabako> Belugas: that's there so you can sell your vehicle in other player's depots
18:22:50 <Belugas> 82 is not the starting version number where the shared_lenght variable is declared?
18:24:13 <mabako> I should have a look, but i'm not quite certain whetever that is really the reason why i can't load the games I've saved with the same server-executeable (savegame-version being 96) before
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18:25:31 <Belugas> i dion;t know, mabako. It's just someting taht seems wrong for me
18:25:49 <Belugas> i cannot try nor compile (nor want to) the patch, just looking at it
18:28:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12957 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/network_client.cpp src/saveload.cpp): -Codechange: do not misuse snprintf when you just want to copy a string, also use DEBUG instead of fprintf in one case.
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18:34:25 <mabako> the server still can't read the saved files, however if i save the file at my windows pc locally, i can load it fine
18:35:20 <mabako> oh, might actually work now
18:37:59 * insulfrog is on #openttdcoop server
18:39:27 <Dotted> is there anyway to upgrade all your trains to a different engine in one go?
18:39:56 <mabako> click on the train icon (vehicle list)
18:39:59 <mrfrenzy> yes, look at the bottom of the window that shows all your trains
18:40:11 <mabako> in the bottom, there's this dropdown with 'replace vehicles'
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19:02:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12958 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Allocate sprites reserved by GRM in advance of 'Action 1' sprites, giving much less chance of GRM reservation failure if lots of NewGRF sets are loaded.
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19:45:17 <Pinchiukas> damn I can't find the thread with the original ttd graphics, anyone can help?
19:46:53 <Pinchiukas> SmatZ: I was talking about the original ttd graphics
19:47:02 <Pinchiukas> were new open source graphics made already?
19:47:08 <peter1138> for original data files, try a local shop
19:47:19 <Pinchiukas> someone gave me a link to a post on the forum
19:47:24 <Sacro> Prof_Frink knows by heart
19:47:30 <Pinchiukas> I can no longer find it though
19:47:33 <peter1138> or look for a place to buy on google
19:49:47 <orudge> Pinchiukas: that link was removed
19:49:54 <orudge> there was a link removed yesterday
19:49:57 <orudge> with the graphics uploaded
19:50:08 <Pinchiukas> I just found a link and downloaded it
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19:50:50 <Pinchiukas> hey, I haven't used it yet
19:50:56 <Pinchiukas> does that make me a thief already?
19:51:07 * Sacro drops a Belugas on Pinchiukas
19:51:16 <Pinchiukas> I guess I should go turn myself in
19:52:00 <Pinchiukas> by the way, today I noticed that there are a lot of transport simulation games out there, can somebody tell me which are more popular/better? :)
19:52:48 <Tefad> get back under your bridge ; )
19:52:59 <peter1138> i've only played locomotion and ttd
19:53:05 <peter1138> so that's hardly a good sample
19:53:06 <Pinchiukas> Tefad: I don't know... people say I shouldn't, why would I listen to you?
19:53:21 <Pinchiukas> peter1138: what were your impressions?
19:53:40 <Pinchiukas> I looked at some 3d game videos, looks repulsive
19:53:58 <mabako> imo you don't really need a 3d interface
19:54:00 <peter1138> of locomotion? not very good
19:54:10 <peter1138> but that's about it
19:54:28 <Pinchiukas> mabako: I think it's a matter of taste
19:54:54 <Pinchiukas> and sometimes it would be really nice if I could turn the view in openttd 90 degrees to see better
19:55:09 <Belugas> not at all, 3d is a vision, an approach... not to mention code been twisted in and out
19:55:26 <mabako> turning it 90° doesn't make it 3d
19:55:36 <Pinchiukas> I know, that's why I said it
19:56:00 <Pinchiukas> that's what makes it easy to implement
19:56:06 * Sacro can turn OpenTTD 90 degrees
19:56:17 <Belugas> hate 3d, makes the game one step closer to reality
19:56:22 <Pinchiukas> rolling your display doesn't count Sacro
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19:56:43 <Pinchiukas> Belugas: try tetris or pong, it's as far from reality as it gets
19:57:04 <trd> Play ASCII pong on IRC and lose.
19:57:15 * Belugas has a chess game on his cellphone
19:57:35 <Pinchiukas> so openttd hasn't got a complete graphics set yet?
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20:11:00 <Wolf01> wow, traffic lights works like a charm with timetables, vehicles always have different late times :O
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20:14:34 <Roujin> be sure to drop me a note if you have any suggestion or bug report regarding the traffic lights :)
20:15:07 <Sionide> ohh, are traffic lights in the nightly builds?
20:15:18 <Wolf01> I just compiled the patch
20:15:31 <Sionide> likely to be some time soon? sounds like a "big thing"
20:16:04 <Sionide> i lurk here most of time, till a "big thing" hits the nightlies then i get into it and start playing a huge map to death
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20:21:56 <orudge> but only vote if you're going to actually come :P
20:23:08 <Belugas> Anyone would like to help organising a meeting in Montreal at the same date?
20:23:31 <Rubidium> what would be cheaper?
20:23:31 <Bjarni> England itself is too far away
20:23:40 <blathijs> Hmm, if it wasn't for the North Sea, I might consider :-)
20:23:41 <Rubidium> a ticket to Montreal or England?
20:23:52 <blathijs> Rubidium: Dunno, might be so much different
20:23:55 <Bjarni> Wolf01's garden sounds nice though
20:24:10 <blathijs> Rubidium: Sounds fun :-)
20:24:23 <peter1138> hmm, £296 return to montreal
20:24:58 <Bjarni> I can go to Heathrow for like £50
20:25:07 <Bjarni> but I will not use planes that cheap
20:25:18 <Belugas> i can go to montreal for... nothing!
20:25:21 * blathijs can go to sleep for free, so I think I'll just do that
20:25:27 <blathijs> Good night everyone :-)
20:25:43 <Bjarni> also getting to London might not be the expensive part of a London trip
20:26:28 <peter1138> don't worry, orudge will provide women
20:26:34 <orudge> Getting to London from Europe can generally be done quite cheaply
20:26:39 <orudge> getting around London, maybe not so cheap :P
20:26:45 <orudge> Yes, both real and inflatable
20:26:51 <peter1138> or was it sacro dressed up?
20:27:15 <Sionide> who's played ottd on a train before?
20:27:36 <orudge> I've not played OpenTTD "properly" on a train
20:27:40 <Sionide> i designed the station we stopped at for ages.. by looking around and making it
20:27:46 <orudge> I've played normal TTD (or TTDPatch) on a train, and a plane, and a boat
20:28:14 <Bjarni> what will actually happen at such a meeting?
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20:28:20 <orudge> Bjarni: well, last year
20:28:30 <orudge> some people played some TTD
20:28:36 <orudge> this year, Andel is organising some games
20:28:42 <orudge> but otherwise, I imagine it'll be much the same
20:29:01 <orudge> there were women last year, Bjarni
20:29:06 <orudge> although, they're both married now
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20:29:27 <Sionide> i could persuade my gf to tag along.. "yes do you wanna come on a day trip to london with me?"
20:29:35 <Sionide> "oh these guys? i don't know them!"
20:29:55 <orudge> Bjarni: Helen and Andel's then-girlfriend Natasha
20:30:10 <Bjarni> I think I will pass on this trip
20:30:16 <orudge> who that very night became pregnant with their child, much to GoneWacko's amusement (seeing as he was in the house at the time)
20:30:43 <Sionide> i could meet GoneWacko.. that'd be weird.
20:30:46 <orudge> well, last year, things seemed fine enough, we weren't too scary
20:30:57 <Sionide> and orudge as well actually.. odd.
20:31:11 <Sionide> to me you are just words on a screen, damnit.. don't shatter my illusions
20:31:17 <Rubidium> last (O)TTD I was at was kinda small
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20:31:18 <Sionide> well i will consider it when i know what date it's gonna be
20:31:56 <Bjarni> I just realised something.... how do you tell the difference between oven and Owen when saying out the words loud?
20:31:56 <orudge> Sionide: feel free to vote on your available days!
20:31:59 <orudge> if you're actually going to come
20:32:02 <orudge> Bjarni: er, we speak English
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20:33:12 <Tefad> volkswagon is funny ; )
20:33:21 * Rubidium turns the oven to 300 K
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20:33:47 <Bjarni> <Tefad> except in german <-- it was so funny when we had a German professor lecturing in maths and he had to talk about two variables called v and w (he lectured in Danish)
20:33:48 <Tefad> isn't 300K like... room temperature
20:33:51 <Rubidium> not from oven (kinda chilly)
20:34:05 <Bjarni> yes he did call w for v and stopped when he reached v right after that
20:34:11 <Rubidium> 26.85 degrees Celsius
20:34:26 <Rubidium> or 80-ish degrees Fahrenheit
20:34:26 <Bjarni> more than 20°C is kinda hot
20:34:31 <Sionide> so it was 396K here in the UK today!
20:34:33 <Tefad> yeah, room tepmperature
20:34:58 <Bjarni> room temperature should be around 18°C
20:35:11 <Rubidium> Bjarni: depends heavily on the country
20:35:12 <Bjarni> hotter rooms makes you less efficient and wastes energy
20:35:13 <Tefad> depends on how much money you have.
20:35:29 <Rubidium> room temperature in Japan is 27-ish
20:35:41 <Tefad> if i didn't pump the heat outside it'd be like.. crazy hot in here
20:35:45 <Rubidium> 25 degrees in trains (yes, they have thermometers in the trains)
20:36:17 <Bjarni> Rubidium: with what outdoor temperatures?
20:36:20 <peter1138> oh bjarni is a *one*
20:36:54 <Bjarni> I didn't knew that brrrrrr means fine :/
20:37:09 <Bjarni> well you learn something new every day
20:37:16 <Tefad> 20C is what i generally use
20:37:21 <Belugas> yeah, we, nordic people, have thick skins who can bare colder temps
20:37:29 <Tefad> then it drops to 18C or so
20:37:37 <Tefad> i also have a wife from southern US
20:37:48 <peter1138> 20 is uncomfortable
20:37:54 <Bjarni> <Tefad> 27 is tolerable <-- I would get almost naked and lie on the bed (with no blanket or anything) and wait for the temperature to stop
20:37:55 <Tefad> who's acceptable temperature range is a small band within my own.
20:38:05 <Bjarni> and hope that it drops before I melt
20:38:06 <Rubidium> Bjarni: between -10 and 25 degrees
20:38:41 <Tefad> it's at least 25C in here right now
20:39:06 <Belugas> -25(no winds) +37(strong winds) is bareble
20:39:14 <Bjarni> we used to have 22°C in the trains... now they added aircondition so you have to wear more cloth inside the trains than outside during mid summer
20:39:23 <Tefad> don't care to waste money on moving the heat out.
20:39:26 <Bjarni> like you should wear a jacket in the train but only in the train
20:39:40 <orudge> then you get outside the train and realise how bloody hot it is
20:39:45 <orudge> I had that when I was at some government office in Brazil
20:39:49 <orudge> was quite normal outside
20:39:54 <orudge> then went inside with the air conditioning
20:39:57 <orudge> came out an hour later and was sweltering
20:40:02 <peter1138> i have that in my car...
20:40:09 <Tefad> i have that in my house.
20:40:21 <orudge> my car is a bit less advanced than peter1138
20:40:30 <orudge> I don't know what car I will have in June :o
20:40:33 <Tefad> 27C with very low humidity is quite tolerable
20:40:47 <Bjarni> my cooling device is based on holes in the walls that can be opened and closed as needed
20:40:51 <Bjarni> those are called windows
20:40:55 <Tefad> i grew up with 27C cooling in summer
20:41:04 <Tefad> though it wasn't so low humidity : (
20:41:16 <Tefad> Bjarni: those would be heating devices here.
20:41:23 <Tefad> and we try to keep them barred up.
20:41:46 <Bjarni> they work specially well when you open one in each end of the room
20:41:52 <Tefad> no, i don't have time to write the deg symbol
20:42:00 <Tefad> nor patience to figure out the deg-C symbol
20:42:14 <Tefad> nor am i going to convert everything to kelvin to avoid needing deg all together.
20:42:19 <peter1138> °C is usually enough
20:42:25 <Tefad> that closes the window.
20:42:33 <Tefad> it puts me at window 11
20:42:49 <orudge> I wouldn't do that, Tefad
20:43:00 <Tefad> the context is temperature
20:43:04 <ln> orudge: i'm pretty sure that's one of the backwards-compatibility unicode characters that are not supposed to be used.
20:43:14 <Tefad> 27C is easily seen as a temperature in this context
20:43:15 <Bjarni> Tefad: fucking a disk drive or optical drive might be bad for your member
20:43:35 <Tefad> if we were talking about electronics AND cooling, then sure i could see the need for specifying degrees.
20:43:52 <Bjarni> at school there were jokes about a certain guy who should be in love with his computer
20:44:03 <orudge> ln: well, I'd usually use U+00B0 + 'C' rather than U+2103
20:44:03 <Tefad> yeah, the deg-c symbol is backward compatibility from asia i think
20:44:05 <Bjarni> and there were a story about him fucking his disk drive
20:44:16 <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
20:47:20 <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ?
20:47:44 * Maedhros wishes he'd noticed that they didn't *before* building that harbour...
20:50:51 <Rubidium> Maedhros: "Maedhros' PBI aware fuel oil carrying ship set"?
20:51:41 <Maedhros> yeah, i guess i'll have to start delving into the murky world of cargos
20:53:06 <Belugas> loves the sound of that...
20:54:30 <peter1138> feh, just set a refit mask of (uint32)-1 ;)
20:55:06 <peter1138> feh, just set a refit mask of MAX_UINT32 ;)
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21:09:11 <Holzberger> Heya All, I have a question for the developpers of OTTD, or those who can also answer my question... Are the developpers currently working on toll booths? Or are there plans to start soon?
21:09:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12959 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't assume no production when the first produced cargo is invalid in industries directory
21:10:41 <Holzberger> Do you recall if someone did ever do something with toll booth (and I dont refer to someone who made a louzy drawing?)
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21:17:45 <mabako> my implentation of shared tracks uses waypoints as kind of tollports atm
21:18:00 <mabako> thought that's bad because you can't have multiple tiles - one waypoint
21:19:59 <mabako> for getting cash, it's fine however
21:34:05 <Holzberger> hmmm mabako... I see your tread now... Maybe it is nice to see it develop... Thx for the answers btw :)
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21:34:41 <mabako> I've not even created a thread on the forums
21:36:31 <mabako> and tbh, I wouldn't know how how i could 'suggest' the pathfinder to find a waypoint which is multiple tiles large
21:37:02 <mabako> or.. pretends to be, and where every waypoint has a pointer to the next/prev. waypoint in order
21:54:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12960 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: handle return values of (some) file system related functions.
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22:03:14 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12961 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: store the type of savegame we are loading in a global variable
22:22:34 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12962 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r12961): forgot one break
22:26:44 <Ammler> [22:47] <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ? <-- doesn't newships carry everything?
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22:35:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12963 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/network_client.cpp): -Fix (r12960): loading some NewGRFs could cause an infinite loop.
22:37:33 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
22:37:53 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12964 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rewrite callback 37 related code so it will be easier to add supported windows
22:42:18 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12965 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: add support for callback 37 in industries directory window
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22:48:06 <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni
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22:54:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12966 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r12965 to other languages
22:58:48 <Bjarni> <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni <-- there is no reason to miss me when I'm around ;)
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23:04:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12967 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r12966): my lang update script failed
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