IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-03
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00:12:00 <Victoria> Hi there! OpenTTD is wicked addicting, but my friend and I are having issues in our multiplayer games... Is it possible to play alongside the AI in multiplayer?
00:12:34 <Sacro> hey Victoria, fraid it isn't I don't think
00:13:26 <Sacro> You could always join an online game with others though
00:13:28 <Victoria> We need something easy to beat up on. ;)
00:13:46 <Sacro> There are many online servers, with people of varying levels of playing
00:14:19 <Victoria> I'm a bit unsure of the ettiquete required though, the er, coopetition? folks seem very dedicated to a specific style of play
00:14:42 <Victoria> At least, that's my conclusion from browsing their wiki. :)
00:14:46 <Sacro> well yes, but there are none co-op servers :)
00:14:53 <Sacro> I personally play on peter1138's server
00:15:16 <Sacro> We each have our own style of building, mine is a sprawling mess
00:17:17 <Sacro> yeah, just find yourself a server with decent players and a decent admin
00:17:18 <Victoria> Shame about the ai though.. we've been trying to get that working for a week now. *grin*
00:17:30 <Sacro> I think NoAI might work on multiplayer
00:18:34 <glx> there's a patch setting to allow newAI in MP
00:18:47 <glx> but the old AI can't (not network safe)
00:19:41 <Victoria> The version I have has an option to allow new AI in multiplayer, and it's marked as experimental, but it doesn't seem to have an effect
00:20:01 <Victoria> I found an 18! page thread on NoAI on the forums, should I begin by looking there?
00:23:19 <Victoria> Thanks for your help anyway folks. :)
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06:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> someone should fix Pinchiukas_ connection...
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07:49:05 <Roujin> I've already asked some pretty stupid questions yesterday, and now i'm back for more!
07:50:57 <mynetdude> the only stupid question is the question never asked
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07:53:20 <Roujin> ok, so i actually managed to get my code proper yesterday, using std::sets if someone remembers..
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07:54:13 <Roujin> now i wonder about the difference of malloc and new
07:54:31 <Roujin> i guess malloc is C and new is C++ .. right?
07:55:11 <Roujin> but i see malloc in use in openttd code all the time...
07:56:32 <bowman> they're pretty different things
07:57:31 <Roujin> aren't they the same in allocating some memory on the heap and returning the pointer to it?
07:57:45 <bowman> new is an operator, malloc a function... new also invokes a constructor
07:57:53 <JelloX> im addicted to this game LOL
07:58:09 <hylje> `new` is is used for the same thing as `malloc` but with different details
07:58:41 <hylje> C++ is mostly about doing what C does but slightly differently
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08:02:47 <JelloX> where should i report a possible bug
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08:02:59 <JelloX> it may be just me.. i dont know
08:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> bugs.openttd.org
08:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> but if you are not sure, you can also explain it here
08:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe we can solve it for you ;)
08:04:03 <JelloX> im on 0.6.0 just so u no
08:04:21 <JelloX> i go to "scenerio editor"
08:04:34 <JelloX> once it loads, i click on the land generation button
08:04:38 <JelloX> all of it is water right now (the map)
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08:04:55 <JelloX> click "create new scenerio"
08:05:11 <JelloX> it comes up then disappears
08:05:36 <JelloX> i know why because its on water and you have to have a "bump"/land raise in it so it wont disappear
08:05:41 <JelloX> but you dont even get the chance to do that
08:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have on the right of the window
08:06:23 <JelloX> i just made it go to "1"
08:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> a box where you can set the land height
08:29:26 <k-man_> why do some towns not accept goods?
08:30:20 <hylje> use the tile inspector to get info about buildings
08:30:38 <hylje> if those buildings in your catchment area are collectively over 1 of goods
08:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> typically, you need to have 3 office buildings
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08:37:06 <k-man_> can you usually get a station that can accept goods?
08:37:11 <k-man_> or you have to truck the goods in?
08:42:14 <JelloX> coal is the most best way to make $$? right
08:45:30 <Gekz> JelloX: most best? that's redundant :P
08:45:40 <Gekz> JelloX: you might as well have said best best.
08:45:50 <JelloX> my bad was typing something else then i changed it
08:46:01 <JelloX> coal is the best way to make $$? right
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09:05:20 <Roujin> do I have to delete all objects I've created with new, or is there some automatic cleaner like in e.g. Java ?
09:13:01 <Roujin> yesterday i wrote some code that didn't free the memory it allocated again, t'was fun to fast forward and watch the memory usage rise in the task manager ^_^
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09:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> Roujin: all memory is freed upon exiting the program ;)
09:21:57 <Bjarni> there sort of is a garbage collector to free memory in C++
09:22:04 <mynetdude> its supposed to, not all programs do it perfectly
09:22:22 <Bjarni> once you reach 4 GB and tries to allocate more then the app dies and you get all your memory freed
09:22:30 <Bjarni> it's not the recommended way to do it though
09:24:13 <SpComb> Bjarni: what if you have a 64-bit platform?
09:24:34 <Bjarni> then make a 32 bit app that's executable on 64-bit CPUs
09:25:12 <mynetdude> Bjarni I have never seen it that way, the app keeps going and your pc slows but it keeps going... some apps might die but I have seen some apps keep going and it will continue to allocate more memory than there is
09:26:43 <Bjarni> Roujin: depending on what you are trying to do freeing memory might be easy. I solved it in autoreplace by putting the pointer in a struct, init it to NULL and freeing it in the deconstructor. Then I make a var of one of those structs (a var, not a pointer to one) and it will automatically call the deconstructor once it goes out of scope (like reaching a return)
09:27:01 <Bjarni> then I didn't have to consider all the possible ways to exit the function even though it has more than one return
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09:27:47 <Bjarni> that's one way of solving this issue when you don't waste time on a garbage collector
09:28:24 <Bjarni> mynetdude: I once had an app with a memory leak that died hard due to the 4 GB limit.... I read about it and found it to be a known issue that they were working on
09:28:55 <mynetdude> oh my bad... u mean a 4GB limit... but I've seen apps that can continue beyond the 1GB or 2GB physical limit
09:29:49 <Bjarni> then it's placed in the swap... 4 GB is the 32 bit physical limit so even 64 bit computers with say 8 GB RAM will kill 32 bit apps reaching 4 GB
09:29:56 <Roujin> Bjarni: clever solution
09:30:28 <mynetdude> well I know that the 32bit is the 4GB limit but it can't overflow to swap?
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09:30:47 <mynetdude> right... cuz 32bit apps can only use the 4GB physical limit
09:31:01 <mynetdude> but what about the swap though? that shouldn't matter with physical limits
09:35:25 <Bjarni> the physical limit is how much memory you can access with 32 bit addresses
09:35:57 <Bjarni> once every single bit in the address is 1 then you reach 4 GB and you can't go any higher
09:36:00 <Roujin> hmm.. now I'm limiting the size of traffic light consists to a certain number, because the cpu usage raises by at least n^2 where n is the size of a traffic light consist
09:36:30 <Roujin> question is, should i just limit it to 16 hardcoded (or something) or make YAPS? ^_^
09:36:42 <Roujin> (yet another patch setting (TM))
09:37:23 <Bjarni> what will it mean to increase/decrease consists?
09:37:54 <Roujin> to increase/decrease the limit?
09:38:11 <Bjarni> what effect will it have on the lights?
09:38:44 <Roujin> it will be forbidden to place more than [limit] lights adjacent to each other
09:38:50 <Roujin> much like station spread limit
09:39:21 <Bjarni> wouldn't something like 4 do?
09:39:59 <Roujin> well 16 should do for all cases I could think of.. 4 may be seen as too much a limit by some people maybe..
09:40:22 <Gekz> they're relatively redundant
09:41:05 <Bjarni> what will the effect be by placing two next to each other?
09:41:26 <Roujin> they are linked together to form one crossing
09:41:48 <Bjarni> and you want one crossing of 16 tiles?
09:41:54 <Roujin> e.g. you can make a 2x2 tile crossing of two "highways"
09:42:34 <Roujin> probably it's too big, but who knows what some people invent? ^_
09:42:37 <Bjarni> what if you have two T sections next to each other with lights but they aren't connected
09:42:43 <Bjarni> did you think of that?
09:43:18 <Roujin> I stumbled over it already, but didn't fix it yet
09:43:23 <Roujin> as of now, they're linked
09:44:07 <Roujin> however, maybe it's not even bad if they're linked..
09:44:22 <Bjarni> then the people who wants really big crossings can increase this if they have the CPU power to do so
09:44:46 <Bjarni> how would we benefit from them being linked?
09:45:00 <Roujin> it just means their states are switched at the same time.. it would look better
09:45:12 <Phantasm> Any plans for multicore support on OTTD?
09:45:45 <Roujin> if we have a highway style road, with exits next to each other on both sides, with a traffic light over both
09:45:53 <Roujin> err.. hard to explain in words
09:46:07 <Bjarni> Phantasm: I tried to improve that at one time... turned out to increase speed 10% on dualcore CPUs in ideal situations and decrease speed 20% in worst case
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09:46:18 <Bjarni> and single core CPUs are always worst case
09:46:28 <Bjarni> so it kind of stopped there
09:46:54 <Phantasm> Bjarni: Depends on how it is done.
09:47:03 <Bjarni> worst case being only using one type of vehicle while best case would be equal CPU load on all vehicle types
09:47:06 <Phantasm> Though, it is a lot for work for code that wasn't made to be multicore to start with.
09:48:07 <Bjarni> the problem was that the drawing code (and some other stuff) is hardcoded for one thread so semaphors are needed to be set each time a vehicle sprite is read and so on
09:48:26 <Bjarni> and it would take forever to fix such issues
09:48:35 <Phantasm> But enough redesigning it could prolly be done to about 90% speed increase in average case for additional cores (even to above dual).
09:49:44 <Phantasm> The problem is, people have been told threads are bad and not to use them... And now that multicore CPUs are common no-one really knows how to code multicore software properly and everything existing is coded such it is very hard to be modified to multicore.
09:50:10 <Gekz> whats wrong with threading
09:50:16 <Phantasm> Perhaps some new pathfinding or something else could be made multicore with main part of game running on one core.
09:50:16 <Bjarni> one of the problems is that we have a central money bin and if we want to do two tasks at the same time in two threads and only have money for one then it's a critical race which one will get the money and this means possible desyncs
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09:50:28 <Bjarni> and we have that all over the place
09:51:10 <Rubidium> Phantasm: that has been discussed a gazillion times and deemed not worth the effort as many times.
09:51:24 <yorick> and offcourse multiple pathfindings at the time, they may influence eachother
09:51:51 <Bjarni> <Phantasm> Perhaps some new pathfinding or something else could be made multicore with main part of game running on one core. <-- pathfinding is done in a vehicle loop and caches stuff in the map so we would end up with two threads where one of them would always idle
09:52:04 <Phantasm> Gekz: If done properly, nothing.. But it is slightly more complicated... And if you want to fully take use of multicore it is even more complicated... But now with multicore CPUs, it is very beneficial on CPU demanding applications.. The problem is just that most coders don't know how to do it.
09:52:24 <Gekz> Phantasm: as I've heard.
09:53:12 <Bjarni> Phantasm: it's not lack of knowledge of how to thread the game but rather the structure is designed in a way where it will desync if one task overtakes another task
09:55:19 <Phantasm> When coding from scratch it is very easy to divide different things to be done on different threads, so you would have say, drawing world, pathfinding and some simulation making 3 threads.. But those threads utilize random amount of CPU, so it won't fully use 3 cores... Properly taking advantake of multicore would require making the most CPU intensive parts multi threaded itself.
09:55:38 <Bjarni> <Phantasm> [...] The problem is just that most coders don't know how to do it. <-- are you claiming to know how to do it? :)
09:55:49 <hylje> i dont see why he needs to
09:55:54 <Rubidium> drawing takes like 1 or 2 percent of CPU
09:55:54 <Phantasm> Bjarni: I'm not a coder, but I know something in general.
09:56:08 <Rubidium> pathfinding and simulation are heavily influenced by eachother
09:56:11 <Phantasm> Rubidium: Depends on case.. In case of OTTD drawing is small yes.
09:56:52 <Phantasm> Bjarni: Anyway, I do know modifying already made code into fully utilizing multi core CPU might be so much work it is easier to code the whole thing from scratch again.
09:57:00 <Rubidium> one simply CANNOT separate the simulation and pathfinding of road vehicles and trains.
09:57:23 <Rubidium> *unless* OpenTTD is rewritten from scratch
09:57:33 <Rubidium> which will make it a vastly different game
09:57:45 <Bjarni> <Phantasm> When coding from scratch it is very easy to divide different things to be done on different threads <-- the problem is that OpenTTD is already pretty old and when it was coded in the first place computers with more than one core were something for companies, not gamers
09:57:57 <Rubidium> e.g. not OpenTTD anymore, but *just* another simulation game
09:58:40 <Phantasm> Bjarni: I know that. That is why it is a lot of work, even as much as to coding it from the scratch again.
09:59:11 <hylje> the underlying thing can be arbitrary, its the game mechanics that matter
09:59:15 <Gekz> does it really need more cores
09:59:31 <Phantasm> Rubidium: Why would it make another simulation game? You can replicate same thing with different multi threaded code.
09:59:54 <Rubidium> no, you can't reproduce the current behaviour when making it multithreaded
10:00:06 <Phantasm> Rubidium: Yes you can.
10:00:37 <Rubidium> *only* with a lot of locking
10:00:43 <Rubidium> which makes it slower
10:00:59 <Phantasm> Without any problems whatsoever. And with almost full CPU effectiveness on additional cores.
10:01:06 <Rubidium> as you need to do locking on each map access
10:01:09 <Phantasm> It is hard to code, but it can be done.
10:01:29 <Phantasm> Some multi threaded things are very complicated to allow maximun effectiveness.
10:01:32 <Rubidium> I'd so, go ahead and show us
10:01:59 <Rubidium> if you are so sure you can make it better, you better prove it
10:02:15 <Rubidium> and slowing down single core is NOT an option
10:02:16 <Phantasm> With fancy pathfinding, bigger maps and multiplayer games, it is very CPU intensive and as the single core speed tends to be quite fixed for new CPUs and only more cores coming, it might be that in the future, say in 10 years, the single core speed is still about same...
10:02:32 <Phantasm> Rubidium: It can be done, but I'm not the one to code it.
10:02:39 <Rubidium> well, neither are we
10:03:05 <Phantasm> All I did was ask if it was planned and got reply. That is all fine with the question.. After that it just came to chatting around.
10:03:21 <Phantasm> I'm not trying to overtalk you into rewritting the game from scratch.
10:03:33 <Bjarni> because we aren't going to do that
10:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> "but i feel fine" :p
10:33:02 <Bjarni> <-- Gekz has quit (Quit: I'm done with IRC. Bye.) <-- he will be back
10:35:12 <Roujin> I've made a patch option now to limit TL consist size. standard 4, max 16 and for every last man's wishes, 0 means no limit :P
10:35:43 <Bjarni> so you can limit it to 1?
10:36:27 <Bjarni> I was once at a place with two crossings next to each other
10:36:35 <Bjarni> it had room for like max 3 cars in between
10:36:46 <Bjarni> and they acted like they didn't talk together and had gone out of sync
10:37:04 <Bjarni> I don't think it was on purpose though
10:37:12 <Roujin> oh, it doesn't mean you can place two TL's next to each other if the setting is on "1"
10:37:19 <Bjarni> I guess they had gone to some independent mode because the link broke
10:37:30 <Roujin> it will then complain that placing a TL here will make the traffic light consist too big.
10:38:10 <Roujin> also if you e.g. try to connect two existing TL consists of size 3, if the setting is "4" :>
10:38:43 <Bjarni> you can connect existing consists... nice
10:39:27 <Roujin> now i try to find a patch setting string short enough to fit a "Warning: high setting slows game" after it, like with station spread...
10:39:57 <Roujin> seems i have to rename the 0-special case from "no limit" to "off" :-/
10:40:23 <yorick> the station spread warning is not true
10:40:28 <Roujin> well it will break in other languages than english anyways :D
10:41:04 <yorick> but how's the patch setting called?
10:41:31 <Roujin> well for TL consists it _is_ true :P i've tried 16x16 tiles, and fast forward does not fast forward anymore ^^
10:42:03 <yorick> yes, its true, but only if you go building 64x64 stations with holes in it where industries fit
10:42:06 <Roujin> {LTBLUE}Maximum TL consist size: {ORANGE}{STRING1} {RED}Warning: High setting slows game
10:42:14 <yorick> get some trains loading, et voila!
10:42:28 <yorick> what does the patch do?
10:43:26 <yorick> oh, it makes RV's even more useless than they are now
10:43:34 <Roujin> well in the other options, they aren't abbreviated so I guess I can abbreviate it here to make it fit and people will still understand it from context
10:43:51 <Roujin> yes, that's why there's an "off" option ;)
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11:01:12 <yorick> In Unix-like operating systems, true is a command whose only function is to always return the value 0, which is regarded by the shell as the logical value true. <-- __wierd__ :O
11:03:15 <shodan> who would have guessed it? :D
11:04:03 * yorick always thought 0 is false
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11:27:21 <Alberth> yorick: value 0 in shells is more 'lack of error code', ie 'succes'
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12:53:12 <Alberth> What is the 'transparent station signs' option supposed to do, compared to the station sign buttons in the 'transparency options window'?
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12:55:32 <Alberth> Hmm, having only the names displayed (with a transparent background) is reset each time with the 'x' key.
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15:14:47 <henkie> hmm, is there a way to make the beer brewery brew faster?
15:14:56 <henkie> or take away his grain?
15:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> go in it and threaten to beat the workers with a stick
15:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh wait... this is not the guild :p
15:18:27 <henkie> hehe, i tried, couldnt find the entrance
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15:25:22 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Has anyone tried to compile the quasi-updated YAPP patch posted by Anunnaki? Can't seem to get it to work with BuildOTTD...
15:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd take this for a "no"
15:41:05 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> guess so
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16:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, Belugas said "good weekend", i kinda doubt he'll show up
16:04:31 <Digitalfox> Oh i missed that :p
16:05:01 <Digitalfox> Well I'll wait until monday.. :)
16:05:41 <Digitalfox> Oh boy 12 GB of 250GB of Stargate downloaded :p
16:06:10 <Digitalfox> My ISP thgis month will go nuts with me =0
16:07:49 <yorick> I'm streaming arc of truth now :-)
16:08:07 <Digitalfox> stream it? I'm downloading the DVD's not DVD rips ;)
16:09:36 * DaleStan wishes he still had that ~3 TB/mo throughput limit.
16:10:12 <Digitalfox> DaleStan 3TB?? Wow nice :)
16:11:19 <DaleStan> Because that's how much data can be moved in a mont at 10 Mbps.
16:11:42 <DaleStan> I never actually got anywhere near that "limit".
16:11:59 <DaleStan> But it's fun to brag about.
16:12:25 <Digitalfox> I really didn't want to download 250GB of Stargate.. But the fisrt seasons DVD rips suck in quality.. So... Series with Lot's CGI deserve a good rip quality :)
16:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> how about... buying the DVDs then?
16:38:54 <yorick> they're expensive, and I know no place where I can
16:42:05 <Pug> could someone help me out?
16:42:14 <Pug> how to set mod lines on player join
16:44:34 <yorick> scripts directory should hold some clues
16:45:45 <yorick> it contains something, no?
16:45:59 <yorick> on_client_join.scr.something?
16:46:47 <Pug> so, wheres the scripts dir then
16:46:50 <yorick> go to your openttd directory, and go to the "scripts" directory
16:47:10 <yorick> what version are you using?
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16:47:29 <Pug> data / gm / lang / scenario / save @ OpenTTD 0.6.0
16:47:44 <yorick> who packed the installer?
16:48:01 <Pug> its the client that can be used as dedicated server
16:48:10 <Pug> when you open openttd in console
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16:48:59 <Pug> hm, but odd i dont have the scripts folder
16:49:27 <Pug> do i need to download server package? if yes, where to find it
16:49:37 <Pug> ive searched trough the sourceforce web already
16:49:56 <Pug> well, it would be nice to start with the scripts folder
16:50:01 <Pug> on what package does it give you that
16:50:06 <yorick> scripts should be included on home-made builds
16:50:14 <yorick> just make your own directory
16:50:21 <Pug> and then google the file?
16:50:30 <yorick> I'll search the contents
16:50:39 <Pug> alright, thanks in advantage
16:51:07 <insulfrog> how is everyone? :)
16:52:21 <insulfrog> I have been reading about this new 'PBS' on the forums, it sounds good.
16:53:11 <insulfrog> Path Based Signalling
16:53:15 <Pug> correct me if im wrong :)
16:53:37 <Pug> thanks yorick, ill take a look
16:54:31 <Pug> so if i want onjoin msg i make something like join.txt and there i put the mod1 mod2 etc.
16:54:35 <Pug> so it will read from there
16:54:53 <yorick> using console commands
16:55:05 <insulfrog> yorick, you have hered of 'Path Based Signalling' (PBS) havn't you :)
16:55:28 <insulfrog> I have been reading about it on the forums
16:55:50 <insulfrog> but I am not sure what is the latest 'build' is?
16:56:15 <DorpsGek> yorick: latest: r12935
16:56:49 <yorick> if you're willing to update it
16:57:32 <insulfrog> I shal make a seperate parent directory for it
16:58:41 * insulfrog goes and digs around for PBS Version r12935
17:02:05 <mabako> Hi. could someone point me in the direction how GUI windows are closed in the rail-menu when you either click that item a second time (just goes away) or another one (could open a new window)?
17:03:07 <yorick> I guess you should start looking at RailWndProc or something
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17:15:28 * insulfrog is thinking, about what dunno :p
17:20:00 <insulfrog> I have got a C++ editor (dev C++) so I should have have no trouble compiling
17:21:11 <mabako> i think i knew what was missing, an according entry in 'WE_ABORT_PLACE_OBJ'
17:27:10 <insulfrog> also I have heared rumors that you can get a version of transport tycoon for the Sony Playstation Portable
17:28:26 <mabako> but i think the last released version is 0.5.x
17:29:30 <mabako> well, at least i havent found 0.6.x versions of the psp port :x
17:29:46 <mabako> I've only some 0.5 version on my psp
17:35:11 <insulfrog> I have followed the installation instructions to the letter but everytime i try to run it on my PSP, my PSP finds it corrupt but I dunno why
17:37:12 <insulfrog> (unless i have to download it straight from the site to my PSP directly)
17:43:09 <insulfrog> i did not know u liked OTTD too Sacro?
17:44:01 <insulfrog> Sacro, I am on OTTD's coop server
17:45:07 <insulfrog> care to join?, its on OTTD version r12932 and u need the gfx from the openttdcoop wiki :)
17:46:38 <insulfrog> (other languages are a bit complicated 4 me atm :p
17:47:34 <insulfrog> the server is english
17:48:31 <glx> insulfrog: he meant "its->it's" and "u->you" :)
17:49:13 <Sacro> just busy at the moment
18:08:53 <insulfrog> anyway, what I was saying was that I'm trying to get openttd-0.5.0-PSP onto my PSP, however everytime I install that build onto my PSP like it says on http://openttd.pc-workshop.da.ru/faq.php , but it always gets corrupt, what am I doing wrong?
18:12:43 <SmatZ> insulfrog: you get PSP support from PSP port developers
18:14:11 * insulfrog starts to dig around the net
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18:30:25 <insulfrog> heh, trust me not to read the readme properly :p
18:44:48 <Andel> does anyone happen to know where I could get YAPP from please?
18:44:53 <Andel> or does it not apply to openttd?
18:49:53 <Andel> ahhh ok - i'm required to compile it myself?
18:52:48 <Digitalfox> and already compiled win32 build
19:44:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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20:08:51 <insulfrog> I think my PSP's firmware is too high to play openttd
20:09:11 <insulfrog> (I think it is over 3.7)
20:09:47 *** lthighlighter was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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20:27:09 <Wolf01> insulfrog, try with the eloader
20:28:29 <insulfrog> does that work with 3.XX firmware?
20:29:35 <Wolf01> yes I use it for OpenTyrian
20:30:18 <Wolf01> and for the PDF reader, because it doesn't work with 3.90
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20:37:51 <Wolf01> wow, how much confidence... sacro -> female name -> sex
20:38:09 <hylje> ssh, don't spoil the moment ;-)
20:40:08 <Wolf01> (he doesn't know in fact that there are no girls on internet, only guys claiming to be guys and guys claiming to be girls, as Bjarni said)
20:41:29 <Victoria> Wolf, Sacro helped me a bit yesterday.
20:41:34 <hylje> there's no guys on the internet. you've got it wrong.
20:44:37 <Bjarni> <Victoria> Wolf, Sacro helped me a bit yesterday. <-- now this sounds scary
20:45:05 * Bjarni fears for Victoria's safety
20:45:14 <Bjarni> not to mention mental health
20:46:23 <Victoria> Thanks for your concern. ;)
20:48:52 <Sacro> STOP TELLING LIES ABOUT ME BJARNI D:
20:49:14 <Bjarni> I haven't told anything about you
20:49:26 <Bjarni> I just tell about my concerns
20:55:45 <hylje> one does not need to say it aloud to make people understand
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20:57:06 <Sacro> Victoria: you played on a server then?
20:58:16 <Victoria> Not yet. We've been amuing ourselves by playing the same game on two computers to see what we do differently
20:59:47 <insulfrog> hmm.. The eloader does not seem to work eiter (unless I have the wrong version)
21:00:43 <Wolf01> mah, I have 3.90-m33 and it works for me
21:08:14 <nicfer> I have an idea for a industry set
21:08:50 <nicfer> After 2020 all oil industries shut down and they are replaced by biofuel plantations
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21:09:09 <nicfer> kinda polemic but would be nice :?
21:11:17 <nicfer> also I would increase the rate for random industry placement, because actually you got more closedowns than new industries, generating ç÷
21:11:57 <Victoria> No kidding.. that industry closure rate is painful
21:12:02 <nicfer> generating 'industry crisis'
21:12:03 <Wolf01> yes, nice, but why not make an industry set for a larger year range? like 1500-2500, you start with iron, stone, wood and you'll finish with carbon, bio-fuels, glass, silicon, plastic, computers etc
21:13:32 <nicfer> yeah, or maybe a all industries in temperate newgrf
21:17:43 <insulfrog> Oh well, cheers for trying, cya :)
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21:19:29 <tp> Does it matter how much of a station's coverage area covers an industry? E.g. a forest: will it produce more if the station is closer?
21:21:07 <tp> So it doesn't matter, so long as at least 1 tile of the industry is covered?
21:28:41 <JelloX> damn i love the road bus stops
21:30:13 <JelloX> can the game go past 2050 ?
21:31:06 <JelloX> its taking me FOREVER to generate money on my own land
21:31:26 <JelloX> SmatZ, you know any ways to get money fast?
21:31:53 <SmatZ> JelloX: build aircraft line from one map corner to another
21:31:53 <JelloX> im building lots of trains to transport coal as thats the best money making thing i know
21:32:10 <JelloX> im in year 1996...i started at 1994 lol
21:32:17 <SmatZ> and set patch settings - vehicles - plane speed = 1/1
21:33:21 <SmatZ> it makes planes to go really 856 km/h, not 215
21:33:39 <SmatZ> and you will be paid better for faster service
21:38:32 <JelloX> wow that is fast compared to 1/4
21:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's 4 times faster ;)
21:55:23 <JelloX> Aircraft income: $301,861
21:55:42 <JelloX> ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty SmatZ
22:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> JelloX: in the middle future, that'll be "fixed" ;)
22:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's called "balance"
22:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't mean there won't be an "easy" setting ;)
22:02:58 <JelloX> Eddi|zuHause2, do you think i should have 2 trains..1 for mail and 1 for passengers
22:03:05 <JelloX> im gunna make a train thingy that goes all around the map
22:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i don't really care for mail usually...
22:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> i just attach a mail wagon on my passenger trains for the cuteness :)
22:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png
22:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't usually use planes
22:11:21 <glx> it's too easy to make money with planes
22:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> i love double tracks too much ;)
22:11:49 <JelloX> i like trains more then planes
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22:33:42 <Sacro> hmm, infogrames planning to buy remaining atari
22:38:52 <peter1138> i thought infogrames and atari were already mingled...
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22:53:55 <echinos> I started a scenario game, and for the second time, I don't have cargo vehicles available for the industries on the map
22:54:05 <echinos> I have nothing that can haul coal :/
22:54:32 <echinos> I have the Canadian trains set on
22:54:49 <glx> maybe refit iron ore to coal
22:56:19 <JelloX> i think i had that prob yesterday
22:57:35 <echinos> And there are no steam engines, the game just started :/
22:58:33 <echinos> screencap on the way...
22:59:17 <echinos> that's my new vehicles list
23:00:50 <echinos> I saved and loaded the game, now I have a coal car available
23:01:34 <peter1138> type 'resetengines' in the console
23:05:38 <echinos> peter1138: You da MAN! many thanks
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