IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-03-29
⏴ go to previous day
00:01:13 *** nicfer_ has joined #openttd
00:01:18 *** nicfer_ is now known as nicfer
00:33:02 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
00:45:03 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
00:47:43 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
00:57:10 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
01:22:15 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
01:24:21 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Z
01:24:24 *** Osai^Z is now known as Osai^zZz
01:26:13 *** Poopsmith has joined #openttd
01:33:57 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
01:34:06 *** Fujitsu has joined #openttd
01:52:19 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
02:12:47 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
02:42:11 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
03:10:28 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
03:11:48 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
03:18:05 <Dr_Jekyll> hi...i've tried to compile the source of chrisin with buildottd within paxdest but it gave me an error "...is a copy for an other URL..." someone an ieda for me?
03:40:16 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
03:43:12 *** gfldex_ has joined #openttd
03:53:22 <DaleStan> Dr_Jekyll: BOTTD only builds trunk, plus at most one patch.
03:53:38 <DaleStan> If you want something else, you have to use a real compiler.
03:53:48 <Dr_Jekyll> i thought something like this
03:55:12 <Dr_Jekyll> but in the forum i've read in the thread of gonozal's patchpack "r12180 built with BuildOTTD"
03:56:04 <Dr_Jekyll> isn't there a posibility to add the paxdest to the source of chrisin without coding (compiling) skills?
03:57:57 <Dr_Jekyll> DaleStan real compiler...cygwin? is this a compiler?
03:59:00 <DaleStan> Cygwin, MinGW, MSVC. All work on Windows. (Actually "real compiling system" is more like it. And for that, MSVC fails, as it doesn't have diff or patch.)
03:59:14 <DaleStan> But TortoiseSVN usually makes up for MSVC's failings.
04:00:06 <Dr_Jekyll> with cygwin i can build such version? if yes i will have a look for it...
04:01:40 <Dr_Jekyll> ok...download iss running...google will be slowing down the next few hours, while i'm searching how to do what i want to do ;)
04:21:35 <Dr_Jekyll> hm...seems to work until cygwin is installed...
04:29:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
04:39:30 <Dr_Jekyll> i've overwritten the svn://... link in bottd with file:///d:/path to the source of chrisin...and it seems to do anything...
04:42:46 <Dr_Jekyll> ...it's still running...pls don't tell me that this can't work
05:32:26 <DaleStan> You don't use BOTTD. You use ./configure && make .
06:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> BOTTD already sets up a mingw build system
06:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> you just can reuse that
07:11:41 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
07:30:51 *** anhedral is now known as dih
07:43:24 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
08:15:27 *** Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai
08:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> (sorry, i don't know a suitible translation of that word)
08:18:38 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: crass perhaps?
08:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> does not correctly reflect the meaning
08:46:29 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
09:14:54 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
09:29:52 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:43:02 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
09:59:02 *** thgerg1 has joined #openttd
10:01:30 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
10:07:32 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
10:12:48 <Wolf01> Is possible to have a flat bed wagon to carry steel with the ECS vectors? I'm trying with UKRS and/or cargoset, but I can't find a suitable wagon to carry steel (only goods wagons and mineral wagons refittable to steel)... and flat bed wagons can carry tourists -_-'''
10:16:48 *** Mirrakor has joined #openttd
10:17:13 *** dih is now known as anhedral
10:24:38 <Patrick`> is this some sort of system that says "this cargo can go in a hopper, this cargo can go in a truck" so grain/coal and livestock/goods take the same wagon type (for example) ?
10:24:39 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
10:28:54 <Wolf01> It might be interesting... you provide only the wagons, and the cargo system decides what each wagon type can carry
10:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Patrick`: technically, there is a system that says "this cargo is bulk cargo", and "this wagon can carry all bulk cargos"
10:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> the question is, is this implemented correctly in all grfs?
10:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: you can try a cargo translation table like the one in the DBSetXL ECS extension
10:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a bitmask that says for each wagon which cargo it can carry
10:35:12 <Wolf01> can the UKRS plugin do that?
10:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: most likely, the UKRS wagons are designed to use the PBI cargos, not the ECS cargos
10:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> the structure of the dbxl_ecs.grf is not hard to understand
10:36:11 <Wolf01> uhm, so I must use the DBset for ECS
10:36:16 <peter1138> tourists are passengers & express classes
10:36:20 <peter1138> express is for freight
10:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, like cattle
10:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> way beyond the edge...
10:43:51 <Wolf01> seem that yesterday was Rubidium's patch galore day
10:44:06 *** pm_away has joined #openttd
10:44:57 *** pm_away is now known as planetmaker
10:51:49 <Wolf01> uh, another thing i can't change is the snowline height... it's always at sea level o_O
11:03:11 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
11:03:30 *** LordAzamath is now known as LordAzamath[birthday]
11:05:58 <LordAzamath[birthday]> yes it is
11:06:07 <LordAzamath[birthday]> and it has birthday today
11:08:31 *** LordAzamath[birthday] has left #openttd
11:18:40 *** anhedral is now known as dih
11:26:58 <Mirrakor> This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm new to this game, can my transport system let a city grow?
11:29:10 <Alberth> I like to believe so, but I have never checked it in the code
11:35:01 <planetmaker> ^^ I'm sure, Rubidiium has done so :D
11:35:32 <planetmaker> happy birthday, LA :)
11:36:18 <Alberth> You're too late already, he must be busy unpacking presents
11:38:33 <Mirrakor> Rubidium: any special things to know about that?
11:39:03 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: mostly a passenger (=PAX) transport will have a city grow
11:39:12 <planetmaker> It doesn't matter how far.
11:39:26 <planetmaker> Delivery of goods helps, too, but not as much as passengers
11:39:39 <planetmaker> Cities in desert need water, or nothing will happen
11:39:49 <planetmaker> Cities in snow need food or nothing will happen
11:40:25 <planetmaker> I'm not sure, but probably food in tropical climate is available and will help, too
11:40:38 <planetmaker> in arctic food helps, too
11:40:50 <planetmaker> Don't ask me about toyland, though :P
11:41:25 <Mirrakor> toyland's cool - btw. is there a way to reduce the volume of the sound?
11:41:50 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
11:41:57 <planetmaker> You've got in the icon bar an icon with two notes on it. Click it and adjust :)
11:42:12 <planetmaker> it's on the very right side of it
11:42:41 <Patrick`> has anyone done actual beta-or-better work on more complex industries?
11:42:43 <Mirrakor> oh, of course - I just looked for it in the startup dialog
11:42:46 <Patrick`> the current layout is a bit ... simple
11:43:15 <planetmaker> Patrick`: what's "more complex"? Do you know the ECS grf package?
11:46:19 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: it happened to be bothered by that a long time, too - and completely turned off sound of this comp. Only found out recently :)
11:47:31 <Patrick`> planetmaker: i do now, ty
11:48:31 <planetmaker> Patrick`: hm, okay. If that isn't complex enough, there's nothing more complex IIRC
11:48:51 <planetmaker> But being beta doesn't make it not working. Actually it works quite well.
11:50:04 <planetmaker> I prefer to use not all modules of ECS at one time though. It makes the map too crowded for my taste.
11:50:53 <planetmaker> And one has to pay attention to use a proper train set which comes with an ECS extension like the DB set, the NARS or -IIRC - the UKRS.
11:51:24 <Mirrakor> in the tutorial there seems to be many different kinds of signals.. but I only see one in the game..?
11:51:35 <planetmaker> (or rather install both, trainset and its ECS extension set)
11:51:58 <Alberth> Mirrakor: Select signal, hold CTL, click at existing signal
11:52:06 <peter1138> or enable signal gui
11:52:10 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: you may look up pre-signals.
11:53:17 <Mirrakor> would you place signals along the whole way or just before a crossing?
11:53:20 <Alberth> peter1138: Interesting, how does one do that?
11:53:33 <Patrick`> does ECS introduce a lot of ugly-looking new industries or does it recycle the original sprites?
11:54:23 <peter1138> (PBI introduces beautiful new)
11:54:28 <Alberth> Mirrakor: Between blocks :) there are a lot of users that place signals every n tiles (4 or so). OpenTTD makes that also quite easy
11:54:33 <Patrick`> but PBI's in alpha, I'll guess
11:54:42 <peter1138> PBI's fully working
11:55:08 <Alberth> Mirrakor: I tend to prefer 'real' blocks of 10-20 tiles
11:55:56 <Mirrakor> Alberth: and how do I enable the signal GUI?
11:56:40 <peter1138> it's hidden under a patch setting somewhere
11:56:47 <peter1138> construction, probably
11:57:02 <peter1138> oh, and not in 0.5.3 or before
11:58:23 <Mirrakor> ah and in the signal GUI I can change the "block size" ?
12:02:03 <Rubidium> Alberth: it's a good case of wiki not-being up-to-date
12:02:19 <Mirrakor> oh boy, this is far more complexe than I thought :D
12:02:41 <Alberth> We intend to keep you busy for a long time :)
12:02:56 *** dih is now known as anhedral
12:03:13 <Mirrakor> I see, I see - but some kind of ingame tutorial would be a nice idea :D
12:04:55 <Mirrakor> uh, a track design question :D atm I've got some sort of L track (I tried to do two long rails), but it be more efficient it I instead would make a \ form?
12:05:06 <Alberth> Everything is possible if you submit a patch, isn't it? :)
12:06:09 <Wolf01> mmh idea: a tool to uniform the land but wich cuts the terrain below, or above a certain level (if below it fills the hole), but not the two at the same time like the level land tool
12:07:45 <Alberth> Rubidium: Could you plz tell me how to enable the signal GUI? I still use the CTL key, and it's kind of a hassle
12:08:03 <Mirrakor> ^^ it's a picture, it seems we(or I) would have to consider the terrain height difference too
12:10:43 <Alberth> Mirrakor: In general, we prefer .png files for screen-shots (OpenTTD can do this). Also I'd simply buy 2 depots, one for each station, and have a more straight line.
12:10:45 <yorick> Pikkas Basic Industries?
12:11:20 <Mirrakor> Alberth: indeed, I prefer them too, but it seems some people (mostly microsoft victims) have troubles seeing those pictures ;)
12:11:45 <Alberth> Mirrakor: and a longer station may be useful too :)
12:12:04 <Mirrakor> Alberth: what's a longer station used for?
12:12:45 <Mirrakor> it can unloade at once?
12:13:22 <peter1138> you can only fit a very short train there
12:13:23 <Alberth> longer trains of course
12:13:59 <Mirrakor> but my 3 wagon train doesn't seem to have a problem with that station.. except it seems it loads/unloads rather slow
12:14:38 <Mirrakor> Can I expand those stations or do I've to remove them and place a new one?
12:15:27 <Alberth> If you replace quickly enough, the new station keeps the old name
12:15:37 *** Zuu is now known as Guest3010
12:15:57 <Mirrakor> to I've to remove it and quickly build a new one at the same place?
12:16:23 <peter1138> you can expand then
12:16:41 *** Guest3010 is now known as Zuu
12:24:36 <Mirrakor> uff.. I should have build a busstop first.. D
12:26:54 <Mirrakor> the tutorial recommend sending the train into the train depo after a completed task - why?
12:29:53 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: probably to service it and thus get up its reliability back up to its maximum.
12:30:13 <planetmaker> The default is to play with break downs and an unserviced train is bound to breakdown very often
12:35:03 <Mirrakor> a train always waits 'till he's fully loaded?
12:37:04 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: if you set the orders to "load" then it will. Otherwise it will pick up as much as there is or until it's full - whatever comes earlier
12:37:36 <Mirrakor> good to know, thanks :)
12:38:00 <Mirrakor> and now it says there's mail to pick up.. but I'm not sure where it would be delivered - to the next city?
12:38:03 <planetmaker> Normally it's a good choice to use the "load" order
12:38:21 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: yes. You can click on a station and it will tell you what it accepts
12:38:41 <Mirrakor> so accept stands for both in and out?
12:38:42 <planetmaker> it will even tell you while placing.
12:38:56 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: accepts stands for exactly that: accepts.
12:39:09 <planetmaker> What a station provides isn't written anywherre - so far
12:39:47 <Mirrakor> so if I've got a station where it says "accept: mail", but my other two stations doesn't accept mails it would make no sense loading them in the train?
12:39:58 <planetmaker> But a town produces passengers and mail and the primary industries produce their product
12:40:24 <planetmaker> a station which accepts mail also provides. The same for passengers
12:40:36 <planetmaker> Different for all cargo
12:41:34 <planetmaker> If you've got only one station which accepts mail, there's no point for a mail train: you cannot deliver it anywhere
12:42:07 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
12:42:53 <Mirrakor> answers my question perfectly :)
12:42:59 <Mirrakor> May I ask you a signal question?
12:45:48 <Mirrakor> I think I should place a signal in front of the train stations and before the crossing
12:47:37 <Alberth> what are you trying to achieve?
12:47:57 <Mirrakor> two trains on the same network - not crashing - minimal delay :D
12:48:21 <Mirrakor> One should transport passanger from top to bottom, and the other one should transport coal from top to the left
12:48:35 <Alberth> I understood that :) train 1 from bottom-left to top-left, but the other one?
12:49:14 <Mirrakor> did I answer your question?
12:49:19 <Alberth> so the power station is the common one
12:50:09 <Mirrakor> the mine accepts passanger - this should be the common one
12:51:14 <Alberth> so you need a signal just below the crossing (where the 1st coal wagon is), and one at the right of the crossing
12:51:29 <Alberth> in both directions of course
12:51:57 <Mirrakor> so two two-way-signals?
12:52:37 <Mirrakor> the bottom-right or the upper right?
12:52:44 <Alberth> trains need to move through the signal in both directions
12:53:33 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
12:53:34 <planetmaker> But you might rather transport passengers between two towns than from a town to the steel mill
12:54:15 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
12:54:29 <Alberth> (full passenger trains in both directions then => more money coming in)
12:55:23 <Mirrakor> ok, so it doesn't make sense to set "load" and "unload", when it's unlikely that the train gets full
12:55:35 <Alberth> also, I'd probably have 2 platforms at the steel mill, and seperate lines
12:55:56 <Mirrakor> I can still expand it?!
12:56:09 <Mirrakor> But then I'd need two other combo signals, right?
12:56:42 <Alberth> 'unload' just prevents loading, 'loading' may take a lot of time of inflow of cargo/passengers is low
12:57:02 <Alberth> plz explain the combo signals, you lost me there
12:57:39 <Mirrakor> I think they're the two-way signals
12:57:50 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: for a two track stations entry and exit signals make sense
12:57:58 <Alberth> i'd have *completely* seperate lines
12:58:14 <Mirrakor> ops, another time :D
12:58:16 <planetmaker> Alberth: I wouldn't. I'd have an incoming and one outgoing
12:58:32 <planetmaker> which shares for both services
12:58:42 <Alberth> different people, different preferences :)
12:58:56 <planetmaker> But i might seperate coal and steel by means of a waypoint immediately prior to the station
12:59:15 * planetmaker is spoilt in this respect by the coop guys :)
12:59:25 <Mirrakor> so there's a difference between combo signals and exit signals..
12:59:54 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: a combo signal will only relay the combined state of all following exit signals
13:00:15 <planetmaker> kind of (state exit #1) or (state exit #2) or (state exit #3) or...
13:00:30 <planetmaker> it will ignore normal signals which follow
13:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png <- how i (used to) use signals
13:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... anyone else gets timeout?
13:03:17 <Mirrakor> i can't reach it too
13:03:30 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, me
13:05:32 <Alberth> Mirrakor: You have a pre-signal and exit-signal normally. Combo-signal is when you want to split such a block in more parts
13:10:39 <Mirrakor> lol, now I've must made a mistake.. both trains wait at the crossing with a red light
13:12:05 <planetmaker> Mirrakor: that happens, if they want to go to where the other train is waiting
13:12:39 <planetmaker> And exactly that's the reason why I always use one track per direction - at least :)
13:22:07 <Mirrakor> now I totaly screwed up :D
13:23:33 *** anhedral is now known as dih
13:28:48 <Patrick`> Mirrakor: "ignore signals" button is awesome
13:30:06 <Patrick`> and has cost me a lot of money
13:39:38 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
13:48:27 *** dih is now known as anhedral
13:54:38 <Diadem> Hello people :) Can I ask a question?
13:54:53 <Diadem> I recently started playing this game again after two years. I remember back then we used to have PBS. What happened to it?
13:55:29 <Joop> it is no longer in the game because it is/was too buggy...
13:57:00 <Mirrakor> are the 6 different bus stations equal to each other?
13:57:12 <Diadem> Hmm, that's a real shame. It was a great feature
13:57:51 <Diadem> Ah well, we'll have to do without :)
13:58:00 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
13:58:57 <Joop> mirrakor, they are all for passengers... Only the last 2 are drive through, so they will drive on after stopping...
14:00:59 *** MDGrein has joined #openttd
14:03:50 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
14:03:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
14:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: there is a new PBS implementation called YAPP
14:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is just not in trunk yet
14:07:34 <Diadem> Yeah I read about that. Seems really in its development stage though? With many bugs etc
14:10:03 <Diadem> Hmm, might look into it then.
14:10:10 <Diadem> Later, for now i'm still in 1953 anyway, no need yet :)
14:11:42 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: what does YAPP really do?
14:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> read the thread?
14:12:11 <Mirrakor> Yet Another Path... ? :D
14:18:40 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
14:24:04 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
14:30:39 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
14:39:23 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
14:39:36 <Diadem> no wiki entry on yapp is there?
14:46:21 <Diadem> Gonna have to download one of the two later I guess
14:56:30 <Sacro> YAPP is so much better than PBS
14:56:38 <Sacro> well, part of me did enjoy the huge crashes
14:58:43 <peter1138> i should update my server
15:03:00 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
15:04:30 <peter1138> there's a windows binary too
15:10:19 <hylje> and there was much rejoicing
15:14:37 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
15:24:08 <hylje> or just faux stations for depots
15:25:04 <Diadem> Imagine a big line with a gazillion trains running over it. Those need to be serviced on occasion. So you order them to visit the depot before picking up cargo
15:25:12 <Diadem> but all trains share orders, so they all visit the depot
15:25:13 <yorick> I thought about that, but from which side should trains come out?
15:25:20 <yorick> how to store their heading
15:25:24 <peter1138> yorick: whichever is appropriate
15:25:25 <Alberth> Hmm, RoRo depots, would that look like hiding an entire bus behind a tree?
15:25:41 <Diadem> How to do that without causing slowdowns?
15:25:46 <yorick> nah, behind a stone wall
15:26:10 <peter1138> Diadem: RoRo depots, no?
15:26:11 <yorick> and an infinite number of ~
15:26:38 <Alberth> I mean, first the entire train disappears in it, then at the other side it re-appears :P
15:26:43 <exe> ***is it very easy to add merge_company request command to another player's window? then he answers yes/no.
15:28:08 <Diadem> But guys. Some advice. I have a lot of trains travelling down a one-way track. I want them to visit the depot before they arrive at the station at the end of the line
15:28:34 <Diadem> How to do this without causing slowdowns? Ie: one train enters depot, drives out again very slowly causing the next train on the line to have to stop
15:28:55 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
15:29:41 <Diadem> But that doesn't work, because the next train won't just pass by, it also wants to go to this depot
15:29:57 <Alberth> Diadem: Maybe have several depots in parallel?
15:30:45 <Diadem> But can I order trains to "Visit any depot along this line" instead of "visit this particilar depot"?
15:31:13 <Alberth> Hmm, good one, hadn't thought of that
15:32:09 <Diadem> Guess I can remove the depot order from the orders list and let them decide for themselves when they want to be serviced. But that somehow always leads to my trains ignoring all stations for 3/4 years while looking for the furthest possible depot.
15:33:43 <Alberth> In the original TTD, I once split a stream of trains between two stations by hand by giving them different destinations, worked quite well
15:34:02 <Alberth> (unloading was too slow then)
15:34:54 <Diadem> yeah but I like the option of sharing orders too much to abandon it :P
15:35:54 <Alberth> you'd only need n shared orders for n depots
15:37:49 <Diadem> perhaps these advanced main line depots are still the best options though
15:37:57 <Diadem> And then i'm gonna have to put them in front of every station
15:38:13 <Diadem> that'll slow down some cargo delivery, but will be fastest otherwise
15:39:13 <peter1138> just turn off breakdowns ;)
15:40:52 <lolman> Wimps turn breakdowns off
15:41:12 <hylje> i believe breakdowns should be redesigned among other things
15:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, the whole game needs to be redesigned :p
15:42:20 <hylje> wouldnt be (or should not be) TTD after then
15:43:11 <Diadem> The best thing about TTD though is that you can load coal at a coal mine for free, then sell your train without any penalty
15:43:24 <Diadem> As long as that is kept it'll be TTD imho :P
15:44:10 <peter1138> I don't quite know about 'best thing'...
15:44:14 *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
15:45:19 <yorick> and, you can go to another station, get money for the cargo, turn the train around at 90%, and load 10%, and get 100% of the money again
15:45:26 <Diadem> Another very realistic part of TTD is that you can load cargo and then transport it anywhere you want. And actually get payed more for trasnporting it to the other side of the map
15:46:10 <hylje> it could be another game where one would have to strike contracts for traffic
15:46:39 <hylje> micromanagement emphatised
15:46:42 <Alberth> maybe only get paid with subsidies :)
15:47:37 <Dr_Jekyll> someone could help me with adding a patch using cygwin? i've installed it and when i now try to ./configure it tells me "gcc not found...please define the CC/CXXenvironment to where it is located" what does this mean?
15:47:52 <hylje> well, it'd be like "we pay XX for tracks between YY and ZZ, then you will transport at least AA items of interest per month with conditions BB and CC (..)"
15:48:26 <hylje> maybe not as freeform and fun as TTD, but a different game altogether
15:48:29 <mrfrenzy> Dr_Jekyll: I suggest you use mingw instead
15:48:44 <Alberth> Dr_Jekyll: Define environment var CXX with gcc path in it
15:50:36 *** anhedral is now known as dih
15:50:43 <Joop> If i add a DIFF to my binarys and compile this... Can i start a multiplayer with the patch running?
15:51:27 <Alberth> A diff to your binaries? Usually one applies a diff to source code
15:51:28 <dih> if you patch the binary - no
15:51:33 <dih> if you patch the source - yes
15:51:57 <Joop> i am new to compiling :) but i mean that script that you can compile with "make" :P
15:52:01 <dih> Alberth: you beat me too it - but mind was more funny :-P
15:52:38 <yorick> "mind", yes, Joop, but you compile binaries with "make", not a script
15:54:33 <Diadem> Perhaps I should play this game at a harder difficulty :)
15:54:37 <Alberth> dih: Well, I did once write a diff/patch for binaries, so it can be done :P
15:54:44 <Joop> i mean that thing that you get from the SVN and compile with the "make" command... is this binaries or source? :P (new :P )
15:54:46 <Diadem> I'm making 10 million profit in 1952 :)
15:56:23 <Alberth> Joop: If it's readable in a text editor, it's source, if you can run it, it's an executable/binary
15:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> problem is, with any difficulty you get to a point where you get money faster than you can spend it
15:56:56 * dih takes his laptop and runs around... making his source binary
15:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can read the binary in a text editor, does that count?
15:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean these python binaries that i have for my work project
15:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can run them directly
15:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> so they are binary
15:59:29 <yorick> no, Eddi, those are scripts
15:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i really wanted to say... that "definition" is flawed
16:00:20 <hylje> you dare define python as mere scripts?
16:00:24 <dih> yorick - you lost yourself
16:00:44 <yorick> script = interpretable snippets of code that can be executed using a script interprenter
16:00:55 <Alberth> No, non-executable Python is not a script
16:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: i368 is a "script interpreter", it interprets "machine code" scrips
16:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have no taste, we know that
16:03:42 <Alberth> and you shouldn't try eating it :P
16:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> ahh... server appears to be back...
16:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> at least i got a dozen emails at once ;)
16:06:12 <yorick> I only like flexible scripting languages
16:06:58 *** jez9999 has joined #openttd
16:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can dynamically change the syntax tree of the language, is that flexible enough?
16:08:02 <Alberth> Or change the class of an object after creating it :)
16:08:47 <yorick> but you can't, change variable types from string to integer
16:09:04 <Alberth> variables have no type
16:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> sure, just redefine the operator
16:10:39 <valhalla1w> yorick: not in python
16:10:46 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
16:11:02 <valhallasw> what's wrong with just doing int("1")*1 if that's what you mean?
16:11:38 <valhallasw> strong typing prevents assumptions by the interpreter/compiler :)
16:12:32 <valhallasw> are the mother of... ;)
16:13:30 <jez9999> damnit. i lost my wallet :-(
16:13:45 <yorick> you can't add methods to the prototype of certain things, can you? *String.prototype.*
16:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: you can, just not to builtin types
16:14:17 <valhallasw> erm, there are no prototypes in python
16:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> def x(self, other): [...]
16:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> SomeClass.__mul__=x
16:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> SomeClass('a')*SomeClass('1')
16:15:25 <valhallasw> that's monkey patching
16:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's totally fun ;)
16:15:43 <hylje> and totally bad for health
16:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not much different than C function pointers
16:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> only you can't do pointer arithmetics ;)
16:17:10 <Alberth> nah, "myobject.__class__ = OtherClass" is (which changes the class of an existing object)
16:17:19 <valhallasw> because C does it doesn't mean it's good ;)
16:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> nobody talked about "good" ;)
16:17:47 <valhallasw> Alberth: "A monkey patch (also spelled monkey-patch, MonkeyPatch) is a way to extend or modify runtime code without altering the original source code for dynamic languages (e.g. Smalltalk, Javascript, Ruby, Perl, and Python)."
16:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i said "fun" ;)
16:25:55 *** yorick was kicked by DorpsGek (dih asked me to)
16:33:16 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
16:37:51 <Alberth> Where is Doxygen text supposed to go, in the .h file or the .cpp file?
16:40:53 <Alberth> Wolf01: configure with --enable-debug, re-compile, enable core-dumps, make it crash again, look in the debugger what it was doing
16:42:07 <Wolf01> I'm already debugging with vs80
16:42:36 <Wolf01> at least with step execution
16:44:14 <Wolf01> it asserts, but I know why (at least), and the "fill area" works
16:44:26 <Wolf01> the "cut area" simply crashes
16:47:17 <Wolf01> something about the costs
16:48:44 <Wolf01> ok, seem that leaving a "=" sign fixed the crash
16:51:08 <Wolf01> res.GetCost() == res2.GetCost() && CmdFailed(res) == CmdFailed(res2)
16:53:52 *** dih is now known as anhedral
16:54:21 <Wolf01> if I can make it work, I'll finally have a way to destroy mountains and keep coast lines intact... and the same to fill valleys and keep mountain top intact :P
17:11:18 <Wolf01> SOLUTION AT THE ERROR?
17:13:22 <Wolf01> it occurs only when I try to level multiple tiles :/
17:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> Peace the huts, war the palaces!
17:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you mean?
17:21:50 <Dr_Jekyll> baah...two weeks of searching, reading, trying, trying and trying...and now i have compiled my first build ;)
17:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> the second time gets easier ;)
17:22:21 <Dr_Jekyll> but now holidays are over and i haven't no time for playing...
17:24:49 <yorick> you should have gotten yourself a bottd, the mingw32 that comes with it has everything preinstalled
17:25:31 <Dr_Jekyll> but wit bottd it isn't possible to add more than one patch...someone told me
17:25:51 <yorick> you don't have to use the actual bottd
17:25:57 <yorick> just the mingw that comes with it
17:26:45 <Dr_Jekyll> now i've done it with tortoisesvn and cygwin
17:27:42 <Diadem> Doesn't it work with normal mingw?
17:27:55 <yorick> but needs some libs ;)
17:28:09 <yorick> argh...tortoisesvn...argh...cygwin!
17:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> cygwin is baaad
17:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should really have gone with mingw
17:30:24 <yorick> you should really have gone with normal svn
17:30:25 <Diadem> indeed, mingw > cygwin
17:30:51 <yorick> price(windows) > price(linux)
17:31:00 <Diadem> actually "linux > mingw" ==> syntax error
17:31:06 <Diadem> can't compare OS with compiler :)
17:31:24 <yorick> compatibility(windows) > control(linux)
17:32:11 <Diadem> nevertheless, it is not a compiler :)
17:32:53 <yorick> compilers don't have sh.exe, do they?
17:34:05 <Diadem> Hey guys something completely different :)
17:34:17 <glx> yorick: sh.exe is in msys not in mingw
17:34:30 <Diadem> When I last played this game 2-3 years ago I wrote a patch that allowed to demolish and raise/lower land not only in squares, but also diagonally
17:34:34 <Diadem> Does anyone know what became of that?
17:35:02 <Diadem> hehe, yeah, I guess so :)
17:35:21 <Diadem> So noone picked it up for any patch collection or anything?
17:35:27 <Diadem> shame, it was so useful ...
17:36:13 <yorick> patch collections started 6 months ago
17:36:20 <Diadem> And noone updated it? Hmm
17:36:24 <Diadem> gonna have to do that myself then I guess
17:36:25 <yorick> and noone gave permission
17:37:02 <yorick> updating / picking up for patch collections
17:37:12 <Diadem> Hmm, quite sure I did back then
17:38:04 <Diadem> Anyway you have heard of my patch then?
17:53:45 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
17:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> <yorick> patch collections started 6 months ago <- you got that totally wrong
17:54:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
17:55:13 <yorick> Eddi, no, miniin is not counted a patch collection from my side
17:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> there were "integrated nightlies" even before i joined here over 2 years ago
17:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> what else would miniin be?
17:56:43 <Bjarni> I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality
17:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> it started out the same way as all the other "patch collections" as you call them
17:57:12 <Bjarni> because if it fails they presume it's a bug in the game core and makes bug reports like it's a clean source
17:57:33 <SmatZ> that doesn't happen that often
17:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> and miniin was also not the first
17:59:11 <Bjarni> SmatZ: not often but it's really annoying when it happens
18:02:01 <jez9999> <@Bjarni> I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality
18:02:10 <jez9999> ^ hey, you contributed autoreplace. :-D
18:02:55 <Bjarni> because it's one single feature
18:03:23 <Bjarni> also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues
18:03:59 <Diadem> Yeah I remember those integrated nightlies
18:04:03 <jez9999> i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game?
18:04:07 <Diadem> I think my patch made it into those actually. But what happened to them?
18:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: after a while, especially with developers disappearing, they get impossible to maintain
18:09:44 <peter1138> 17:55 @Bjarni> also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues
18:10:16 <Bjarni> like there are any severe unfixed issues in autoreplace
18:11:12 <jez9999> my face code got chucked out because of the odd wrong curly brace
18:11:21 <jez9999> apparently severe issues aren't the only problem :-)
18:11:54 <yorick> if it fails to compile, it's severe
18:12:19 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
18:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> if it compiles, ship it!
18:28:55 <jez9999> Bjarni: <jez9999> i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game?
18:30:16 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> if it compiles, ship it! <-- use Titanic if it breaks savegames and stuff like that
18:30:49 <Bjarni> read: ensure that it's lost for good in the transfer
18:31:40 <Bjarni> you didn't tell what you want me to do
18:32:04 <Bjarni> changing 8 lines at random makes little sense
18:32:29 <jez9999> tell me if you can think of a good reason why not to check it in :-) i think it just improves things with no negative effects
18:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> change whitespaces in 8 lines ;)
18:36:25 <jez9999> it's going back to the oldskool look for the land owners view
18:36:29 <jez9999> but it looks much clearer i think
18:36:43 <Bjarni> are you sure you want me to check this?
18:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i _can_ read ;)
18:36:57 <Bjarni> for all you know I could be blind
18:37:08 <Bjarni> or just don't care for the map
18:37:17 <Bjarni> because you never asked about those issues ;)
18:37:55 <jez9999> i'll take the risk :-)
18:38:01 <Bjarni> also it's possible that I use a B/W monitor
18:38:10 <jez9999> then you'll have bigtime trouble playing openttd
18:38:30 <Bjarni> some people claim that I don't :/
18:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> i played TT a lot on a B/W laptop
18:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is no problem at all
18:39:26 <Bjarni> I played civilisation on a monochrome monitor
18:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> i played civ2 on that same laptop
18:39:48 <Bjarni> using monochrome sprites
18:40:17 <Bjarni> each unit had a black line with white icons in it below the actual image
18:40:34 <Bjarni> and each civilization had a pattern so it's possible to tell them apart without colours
18:41:05 <Bjarni> I guess I just told jez9999 that I'm not blind
18:41:13 <Bjarni> or at least used to be able to see
18:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> the heraldic system had a code for drawing the colours of shields when no colours were available
18:41:56 <jez9999> but thankfully we have progressed beyond the days of CGA and Hercules (monitors), so .. what do you think of the patch?
18:42:12 <Bjarni> actually I have gone blind
18:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had VGA back when i played civ 1
18:42:26 * Prof_Frink steals Bjarni's wallet
18:42:34 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink tricked me into opening goatsee or whatever that image was called
18:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh those were the days, when you needed SVGA (!) to play SC2000
18:43:27 <jez9999> ouch, don't mention wallets :-(
18:45:23 <fjb> What would happen if the lenght of a tick would be doubled?
18:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> say portemonnaie instead ;)
18:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: that should not cause any trouble
18:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: same as when you would have a really slow CPU
18:46:20 <fjb> Would everything still run smooth but slower?
18:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever you call "smooth"
18:46:50 <fjb> Or would the vehicles start to jump?
18:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> vehicles only move every tick
18:47:17 <jez9999> Eddi|zuHause2: lost my wallet today :'-(
18:47:26 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
18:47:27 <fjb> Yes, but they appear constantly moving.
18:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i _can_ read ;)
18:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: the brain can only view like 18 pictures per second
18:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is why movies look smooth with 24 pictures per second
18:49:14 <fjb> I know. The question is how long can a tick be without anybody noticing that the are not constantly moving.
18:49:43 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: mine can tell the difference between 30 and 40 fps quite easily
18:49:56 <ben_goodger> they both look smooth, but they are comparable
18:50:33 <ben_goodger> playing FPS at 50fps is a lot more pleasant than at 30
18:50:56 <peter1138> Playing Rigs of Rods at 5 FPS is unpleasant
18:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: i guess it has to do with being interactive
18:51:42 <fjb> How many ticks per second is OpenTTD using now? (If the CPU is fast enough)
18:52:40 <ben_goodger> the 24fps PAL framerate comes from 24fps being the smallest framerate where one cannot see the gaps between the frames on the physical film as it moves past. it's not smooth, merely smooth enough to not break
18:53:45 <peter1138> PAL doesn't have a 24fps framerate
18:53:47 <fjb> Doubling that time would not only slow down everything. The vehicles would not appear to be constantly moving anymore.
18:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> PAL is 50 frames interlaced
18:54:40 <fjb> PAL uses 25fps because German power network uses 50Hz.
18:55:17 <ben_goodger> 24fps in film, then
18:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> films are older than TV ;)
18:55:45 <fjb> But only Tonfilm (what is the english Term for that?).
18:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the first TV transmission was the opening of the olympic games 1936 i think
18:56:23 <peter1138> PAL uses 25fps because the British power network uses 50Hz...
18:56:50 <jez9999> Bjarni: im pretty sure i didnt upload goatse.
18:56:55 <fjb> ben_goodger: Movies with audio track.
18:57:10 <jez9999> fixed it now though, it really is the patch pic
18:57:11 <ben_goodger> fjb: could be anything
18:57:15 <fjb> Movies bevore audio tracks were invented used 18fps.
18:57:18 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: it was in the 1910s, used a mechanical system and was of a passing schoolboy who was bribed to do it
18:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: i mean one viewed by a larger audience ;)
18:58:04 <ben_goodger> fjb: yes, but they were speeded up when playing to avoid seeing the inter-frame sections of film
18:58:32 <fjb> ben_goodger: No, they were originally shown at 18fps.
18:58:45 <Diadem> Hmm, it says "train 10's profit last year was -4,636"
18:58:49 <Diadem> how do I turn that message off?
18:58:58 <Diadem> (which message setting controls it?)
18:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: "vehicle information"?
18:59:09 <ben_goodger> fjb: with horrible flicker. they are now shown speeded up
18:59:30 <Diadem> any other messages I loose then?
18:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> "vehicle is getting old"?
19:00:02 <Diadem> hmm, wanna keep that one though
19:00:09 <Diadem> probably "train is lost" which is also useful to have
19:00:20 <fjb> They are now shown speeded up because you can not show movies with 18fps today.
19:00:40 <fjb> The sideeffect is that everything moves way too fast.
19:00:41 <mrfrenzy> Diadem: why do you have trains with negative profit
19:01:43 <ben_goodger> mrfrenzy: I get that. it's because the transfer system doesn't work as it says it does
19:01:56 <fjb> peter1138: PAL is a German invention. :-)
19:01:57 <Diadem> I have a few very long coal routes that make profit
19:02:07 <Diadem> and a few short lines that supply the long ones
19:02:23 <mrfrenzy> Diadem: if they get longer than 120 days or so they make less money per trip
19:02:37 <Diadem> Say you have 2 coal mines together and a third a little bit off. You build a station at the two coal mines and transport it to a power station
19:02:51 <Diadem> And you get a little train that runs for the 3rd one to the station at the 2 mines with 'unload'
19:02:57 <Diadem> that one is useful, but makes no profit
19:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: use "transfer"
19:03:05 <mrfrenzy> you should use transfer, no tunload
19:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> "transfer and leave empty"
19:03:36 <Diadem> Never noticed that button. It wasn't there 2 years ago :)
19:03:46 <mrfrenzy> same as unload, but you get paid for the two trips separately
19:04:00 <Diadem> Can you make a loop that way?
19:04:13 <Diadem> Or when is payment done?
19:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> you get "virtual" money
19:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> the real money gets payed on final delivery
19:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the "virtual" money is only for the train statistics, not for the bank account
19:06:49 <Diadem> Hm, does it also keep track of where the goods came from then?
19:07:11 <Diadem> Example if I have : A ----- B --------------- C
19:07:21 <Diadem> A and B are coal mines, C is a power station. I transfer from B to A and then to C
19:07:24 <fjb> peter1138: Where you the one who told me that the new canadian set is not that interesting?
19:07:28 <Diadem> do I get payed for B - C or for A - C
19:07:36 <Sacro> peter1138: i broked my mig :(
19:07:40 <peter1138> fjb, however, i'd not used it ;P
19:07:44 <fjb> peter1138: You were right.:-)
19:08:10 <peter1138> probably full of way too powerful steamers...
19:08:33 <fjb> More advertasing than working and fun.
19:08:42 <Sacro> and i can't steer with my mosue
19:08:52 <fjb> Yes, I'm missing the samm cheap shunters.
19:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: from original starting point to final destination
19:09:56 <fjb> And the ECS support is not working that great. But that might be an OpenTTD bug. Don't know. But the engines are not that interesting.
19:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: but be aware, this drastically decreases in value for the waiting times inbetween
19:10:29 <jez9999> peter1138: what do you think of ?
19:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> so the intermediate stations should not pile up cargo
19:10:44 <peter1138> fjb, well, oztransltd doesn't quite get cargo classes ;)
19:11:04 <Diadem> Eddi|zuHause2: What do you mean?
19:11:27 <Diadem> Eddi|zuHause2: You mean that you get payed for the full transfer time, including time the cargo spends laying around on thbe station?
19:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: you get payed less the longer it takes
19:11:42 <fjb> peter1138: The wagons can not be refitted to all the goods that the manual states.
19:12:04 <Diadem> Eddi|zuHause2: And it keeps track of the full trip time? ah
19:12:15 <Diadem> Hmm, with 'unload' is just resets the time and profit I think
19:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> no. it keeps track also, just it does not split the profit between the trains
19:13:35 <Diadem> It does? Whenver I look in my wagons it always says the cargo comes from the transfer station, not the original one
19:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the wagons can only display one source station
19:14:19 <peter1138> fjb: did you set the appropriate parameter?
19:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, it doesn't work correctly in 0.5.3
19:15:04 <fjb> peter1138: Yes, it tells me what I can refit the wagon too. But that list is different from the list in the manual.
19:15:05 <peter1138> it just isn't designed to show it ;)
19:15:29 *** Mikko_A has joined #openttd
19:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: the intermediate station should say something like "300 tons of coal (50 en-route from XXX)"
19:15:45 <Diadem> My first train with the new setup will arrive in a few seconds
19:15:53 <Diadem> But with 'unload' it didn't :)
19:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: that is probably a bug
19:17:08 <Diadem> except that 2 trains were waiting in the station to pick up cargo :)
19:17:13 <Diadem> so it was gone again immidiately :)
19:18:45 <Mikko_A> is there easy way to convert railways? i have 120 trains.. and open tdd 0.6 rc1.. I have found the converting tool... but how i can convert trains and carriages?
19:19:04 <mrfrenzy> you convert them in the depot
19:19:07 <Mikko_A> now i know how to convert railways but trains?
19:19:56 <Diadem> If you have a train stopped in a depot and you convert it, does it convert the train?
19:20:10 <mrfrenzy> there will be a button in the new depot
19:21:43 <Mikko_A> in ttdpatch there was easy way to do it... just writing to the sign cht tracks 1... it was a cheat but it still costs...
19:22:06 <peter1138> there's no way of doing that currently
19:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Orthannen im vi ól
19:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Or hiriath naur
19:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Na rovail mae sui 'waew
19:24:23 <Diadem> So how do you upgrade a train?
19:24:47 <Zuu> You have to manually copy the train.
19:24:59 <Zuu> Orders however can be copied.
19:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: it's the text of the music when Frodo and Sam get picked up by the eagles
19:27:11 <peter1138> # Welcome, to the hotel california
19:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> under "common translation" it says: In a dream I was lifted up. Borne from the darkness, Above the rivers of fire. On wings doft as the wind.
19:28:20 <Mikko_A> cani use replace vehicles?
19:28:24 <fjb> # You can try every time you want, but you can never leave. :-)
19:28:35 <Mikko_A> if i call aall trains in first...
19:28:47 <Mikko_A> then change all tracks ans stuff
19:29:22 <Wolf01> # Brothers everywhere, raise your hands into the air, we are warriors, warriorsof the world
19:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> # There's nothing we can't face
19:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Except for bunnies
19:31:36 <Mikko_A> i think im gonna download original ttd and download ttdpatch :D
19:31:45 <Mikko_A> and try does same savegame work :D
19:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> openttd's savegames do not work in patch
19:32:48 <Wolf01> I tried to apply TTDPatch to my original TTD installation... but I found that is too tifficult to set up that and I turned back to OTTD
19:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> i got The Patch running under wine after a few tries
19:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you immediately miss some of the most basic usability features
19:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bier auf Wein, das laß sein ;)
19:36:03 <ln> what is "patch settings" in elvish?
19:36:31 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
19:37:06 <Bjarni> ln: you shouldn't wonder about that before you figured out how to say text editor
19:37:16 *** anhedral is now known as dih
19:41:26 <Sacro> ln: OpenTTD does *not* need an elvish port
19:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: Sindarin or Quenya?
19:42:01 <Bjarni> <Sacro> ln: OpenTTD does *not* need an elvish port <-- are you being a racist?
19:42:06 <Bjarni> what do you have against elves?
19:43:29 <Sacro> i don't like elves, hobbits
19:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro of the easterlings
19:44:06 <nicfer> I got an error while trying to enter a game after a desync
19:44:12 <DaleStan> <Eddi|zuHause2> like autorail <-- Whyever would you want autorail? It's to hard to control which direction you get with just one or two tiles. Mash [1]..[4] to select the direction, and you don't have that problem.
19:44:19 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (don't put me in the same group as hobbits)
19:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: it's not about "hard to control", it's about "getting used to"
19:44:52 <nicfer> it said: game load failed internal error: inflate() failed
19:45:09 <SmatZ> nicfer: do you have enough free space?
19:45:47 <yorick> someone else on your IP who also plays on the same server?
19:45:56 <yorick> or is viewing info from it?
19:46:20 <nicfer> nobody playing in my other pc
19:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't really fit into the standard format ;)
19:47:51 <Bjarni> then whoever decided on the standard is a racist
19:47:59 <yorick> peter1139, I've had it while I had enough diskspace
19:48:05 <Bjarni> and can expect to get a visit by elves when he least expect it
19:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: i guess tolkien didn't really have computer vocabulary in the first half of 20th century ;)
19:48:35 <Bjarni> nicfer: are you sure that's enough?
19:48:44 <Bjarni> and is it the right disk?
19:50:29 <Bjarni> btw have you ever seen windows telling you that it can't install something on the D drive because it lacks free space on the C drive?
19:50:30 <yorick> nicfer: have you accidentaly pressed ctrl-G so you're out of diskspace?
19:50:58 <nicfer> I was rejoining a multiplayer game
19:51:05 * yorick should clean up hist temp files, over 1 gb
19:52:42 <nicfer> would be good that the banks could be builded in other directions
19:52:56 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
19:52:59 <SmatZ> nicfer: is there network_client.tmp file in your save/autosave directory?
19:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> nicfer: if you provide a patch for rotatable map
19:54:32 <nicfer> no, not rotate the map
19:54:40 <nicfer> the banks should be rotable
19:54:51 <yorick> I think they could be made using a grf
19:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, rotate the map under the bank
19:55:04 <ln> nicfer: build, built, built
19:55:30 <nicfer> oh yes my english sucks
19:55:30 <SmatZ> nicfer: try deleting that file
19:55:51 <nicfer> now I can join normally
19:55:51 <SmatZ> no need to backup temporary files
19:56:02 <yorick> ln: stop nitpicking on non-native english speakers
19:57:04 <ln> yorick: i thought this channel was English only, and besides i'm not nitpicking, i'm giving advice.
19:58:25 <Bjarni> is "drop dead" also giving advice?
19:59:52 <yorick> ooh...!bjarni makes Slowpoke quit!
20:00:08 <yorick> the mighty power of the lord bjarni!
20:00:24 <Bjarni> you can't trick me again
20:00:36 *** Prof_Frink was kicked by Bjarni (not again)
20:00:42 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
20:02:37 <hylje> bjarni are serious bjarni
20:03:19 * yorick puts bjarni in a serious imaginary box
20:04:48 <Bjarni> yorick: move that damn box. It's blocking the view
20:05:46 * yorick moves the imaginary box because it's blocking the virtual view
20:06:13 * Prof_Frink puts Bjarni in a windowbox
20:06:59 * yorick gets his imaginary box out of Prof_Frinks windowbox and dries the water out of it
20:07:01 <Bjarni> not only did you place me near an MS product, you also watered down the hardware
20:07:04 <Diadem> I've found a very funny bug
20:07:23 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, not a Windows box, a windowbox
20:07:33 <Bjarni> I need something funny
20:07:44 <Bjarni> because the funny guys in this channel aren't actually that funny
20:07:56 <Bjarni> so it's imaginary funny
20:09:53 <Diadem> The train in the middle is waiting for itself
20:09:55 <SmatZ> Diadem: it is not a bug :)
20:10:06 <Diadem> Waiting for yourself is clearly a bug :)
20:10:25 * SmatZ closes Diadem's bug as "Won't fix"
20:10:45 <yorick> it's because the signal block is looping over that depot track
20:10:52 <Diadem> I understand why it happens
20:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> i should rephrase that
20:11:05 <yorick> and you can get around it by making that track longer
20:11:14 <yorick> and put a signal on it
20:11:16 <Diadem> But just because you understand why a bug occurs doesn't mean it's magically not a bug
20:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: advise him!
20:11:39 <yorick> but this is magically a bug
20:12:02 <yorick> because it's expected behavior: signal is red if train is behind it
20:12:17 <yorick> train is behind signal, signal is red in this case
20:12:24 <Diadem> Again, I understand why it happens. But basicly the train is triggering itself. That's just wrong :)
20:12:36 <Diadem> Even the Dutch railways have never ever used that as an excuse for delays
20:12:41 <Diadem> and they are very creative with excuses :)
20:12:54 <yorick> but it's normally snow
20:13:01 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Turn on trains-crashing-into-themselves and call it a feature.
20:13:32 <Prof_Frink> Diadem: Unlike .uk, where it's "Leaves on the line"
20:13:35 <SmatZ> Diadem: did you know trains can cross itself withou crashing?
20:13:55 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
20:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: not what i meant ;)
20:14:34 <SmatZ> I think it is a funny "bug" ,too :)
20:14:58 <Prof_Frink> Or just commit YAPP to trunk
20:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: it's not a bug, it's the design of the signal block
20:15:10 <Diadem> actually check this screenie I made 2-3 years ago already :)
20:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a train in the signal block so the signal is red
20:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> everything else would be a bug
20:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> snakes on a train... err...
20:17:40 <Diadem> I have more great screenies :)
20:18:12 <Diadem> I once grew a city to over 1 million people ;)
20:18:51 <dih> boom boom boom boom, i want you in my room....
20:19:43 <Sacro> dih: damn, cannae find tht track
20:21:03 * Sacro downloads the party album
20:21:35 <Sacro> dih: one on one just me and you
20:21:47 <dih> hello party people, this is kaptain kim speaking....
20:22:46 <dih> don't wanna be a bus driver all my life....
20:22:55 <dih> that kinda is suiting for OpenTTD :-D
20:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> you guys are weird...
20:23:10 <Sacro> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY!
20:23:47 * peter1138 continues building his sacro-less empire
20:23:47 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Took you long enough to realise
20:24:00 <Sacro> and 3 best of/greatest hits
20:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i haven't noticed all these years
20:24:19 <dih> Sacro: lets take it to ts :-P
20:25:31 <Sacro> this is trashing my last.fm reputation ><
20:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> it recently said my taste in music is close to the one of orudge
20:27:26 <Sacro> Including: Overseer, Stereo MC's, The Arrogant Worms, Lunatic Calm, Tenacious D, Underworld, Eric Idle and more
20:27:41 <dih> 8 o'clock get up get out of bed, i feel like a truck ran over my head....
20:27:54 <Sacro> dih: skinny dipping all night long (take your clothes off(
20:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have any of these...
20:28:17 <dih> but my oncle john from jamaca keeps on calling every day...
20:28:43 * dih hooks up his laptop to his big-ass hifi
20:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> # ich zahle und verlasse den Bäcker
20:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> # hör noch den Nachrichtensprecher
20:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> # "Lage wieder mal dramatisch verschlechtert,
20:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> # heute fantastisches Wetter"
20:32:22 <dih> i am assuming here you have a headset or something...
20:34:18 * peter1138 ponders asterisk/teamspeak integration :p
20:34:20 <Sacro> dih: yah, creative fatal1ty
20:37:01 <Sacro> i don't have a 5.25 to 3.33 converter
20:38:49 <Sacro> i do for my x-fi drive :(
20:38:50 <peter1138> the linux teamspeak client has the gay
20:40:14 <Sacro> my laptop can run TS XD
20:41:18 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
20:45:58 <Sacro> now i have a great big loud heavy ipod!
20:46:17 <peter1138> unless ipods have that anyway
20:46:24 <Sacro> peter1138: its not amazing
20:48:32 <dih> dont hear nothing you say :-P
20:48:39 <Sacro> all i can hear is your music
20:48:59 <dih> you should have output volume controll of ts
20:49:48 <dih> i can read what you right
20:49:54 <dih> and i am not waering my headset
20:50:24 <peter1138> say something sensible
20:54:52 <ln> for the next two minutes, Danish Only
20:54:53 * dih preferes his ttd-theme remix
20:55:06 <dih> ln - seems like you already lost
20:56:12 <dih> i hope that was not Sacro singing :-P
20:56:59 <peter1138> this one goes on a bit doesn't it...
20:57:12 *** Tekky_ is now known as Tekky
20:57:50 <peter1138> i was playing the .gm file :p
20:57:51 <dih> fresher / different instruments
21:00:05 <dih> peter1138: that is very unclear :-P
21:00:25 <peter1138> probably no good for a voice codec, hehe
21:00:59 <peter1138> plenty of bass here :P
21:01:21 <dih> the ttd themes were alright :-P
21:01:54 <ln> interestingly, i sort of have no idea wtf people are talking about right now, but maybe i'll go sleep instead of pondering that.
21:02:29 <dih> and your threshold is too high - so it breaks up
21:13:25 <dih> peter1138: do you know Flanders and Swan
21:15:16 <dih> well - no - of course not personally
21:15:35 <dih> i'll play ya one in a minute
21:15:52 <dih> old commedians - mid fifties or so
21:47:30 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
21:50:09 *** Poopsmith has joined #openttd
21:50:21 <jez9999> could it be quickly checked into the trunk? just a few different colours but makes the land owners screen so much nicer/clearer; i've been using it for a while now and love it
21:50:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12483 /trunk/config.lib: -Change: disable stripping of binaries by default so we have a (much) better chance of actually getting something useful out of OSX stacktraces.
21:51:51 <mrfrenzy> you are in a hurry jez9999 ;)
21:51:51 <Rubidium> newgrf authors will most likely start complaining that their industry's colour makes them invisible on the smallmap whereas it's still visible on the TTDP smallmap.
21:52:03 <mrfrenzy> why don't you supply some prepatched versions for people to try
21:52:13 <mrfrenzy> then when you get all praises it might be considered :P
21:53:56 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
21:57:42 <jez9999> "their industry's colour makes them invisible on the smallmap"?
21:58:40 <Prof_Frink> jez9999: Same colour as background
21:58:41 <peter1138> it only affects the company colour map
22:00:06 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
22:00:38 <Rubidium> then we'll get bug reports about it being inconsistent colour wise
22:00:57 <jez9999> i think it looks quite nice
22:01:07 <peter1138> what about adjusting the blue cc slightly?
22:01:12 <peter1138> that's the only one which clashes, isn't it?
22:01:18 <jez9999> you switch from a view to the land owners view, looks like it's 'darkened' the less relevant bits like the land and sea and towns
22:01:25 <jez9999> and is highlighting the colours of the land owners
22:01:27 <jez9999> i think it works really well
22:01:46 <jez9999> it's hard though, and much easier to use the same palette colour for all companies
22:01:49 <jez9999> this solution seems nicer
22:01:55 <jez9999> in fact i prefer the look of it
22:02:17 <jez9999> so did Chris Sawyer when he made TT ;-)
22:02:31 <peter1138> obviously he didn't like it as he changed it ;)
22:03:37 * fjb wonders if Sacro ever says something useful.
22:04:44 <jez9999> peter1138: yeah and for all the maps but the land owners one i prefer the new look :-)
22:05:17 <jez9999> you tried my patch? see if you like the land owners display, it should seem as if the land and sea have been 'dulled' and the overlaid colours for land owners 'highlighted'
22:05:36 <jez9999> the colour change actually feels fine
22:14:21 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
22:32:01 *** dih is now known as anhedral
22:43:54 *** stillunk1own has joined #openttd
23:04:21 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
23:28:09 *** Schlauke has joined #openttd
23:31:17 *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
23:44:29 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
23:46:18 *** Mirrakor has joined #openttd
23:50:47 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
23:54:52 <Mirrakor> I've got a city with 1,438 citizens - with 3 bus stops and one depot.. how many busses would you suggest me to use?
23:55:41 <Mirrakor> now, when you say it - it really makes sense to me :D
23:56:07 <Belugas> Mirrakor, try 2-3 for each station
23:56:15 <Belugas> as the success grows, add a few more
23:56:23 <Mirrakor> 2-3 for each station? o_o
23:56:26 <Belugas> trial and error, in fact
23:56:40 <Mirrakor> I'd have used 2-3 in the whole city :D
23:56:50 <Mirrakor> nothing wrong - I'm just surprised ;)
23:57:08 <Belugas> well.. i usually do that
23:57:14 <Belugas> sometimes, i have to reduce the number
23:57:19 <Belugas> sometimes, it's not enough
23:57:27 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
23:57:31 <Mirrakor> Belugas: have an idea how they should move?
23:57:53 <Belugas> i tend to let them visit each station on a circuit
23:58:32 <Belugas> or make a more uniform distribution
23:59:33 <Mirrakor> well.. now I only have to get some money to buy busses :D
continue to next day ⏵
