IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-14
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00:01:08 <Gonozal_VIII> and no, i didn't add newlines :P
00:02:37 <glx> I applied it and no newline added
00:02:49 <glx> what are you using to apply?
00:03:09 <Roujin> well g'nite, and good luck blasting those newlines ;)
00:03:27 <glx> I use patch and it works as intended
00:03:50 <Gonozal_VIII> could the problem also be that the original files end with lots and lots of newlines?
00:04:07 <Gonozal_VIII> confuses the patch^^
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00:21:58 <NukeBuster> Anyone of you guys familliar with GCC? I have searched the internet for an error but can't seem to find a solution....
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00:39:16 <Tekky> I'm afraid I've not used GCC much....
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02:14:54 <fjb> Does the ai do random terra forming?
02:15:29 <glx> it just tries to find a flat path
02:16:34 <fjb> Hm, a flat path look different. It builds almost mountains, three tiles higher than the things it tries to connect.
02:17:04 <fjb> And it does that in all directions aroud the objects.
02:17:29 <fjb> It terraformed away half of the rain forest.
02:18:50 <fjb> Oh, four tiles higher. That can't give a flat path.
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02:22:25 <Gonozal_VIII> it tries to alter rainfall patterns to prevent its new track masterpiece from being flooded
02:24:28 <fjb> Ah, that might be the explanation.
02:25:02 <Gonozal_VIII> also it doesn't like trees
02:25:50 <fjb> It still looks random. Even almost flat areas are not any kind of flat anymore. Small bumps and holes all over the place.
02:26:13 <fjb> It really hates rain forest.
02:27:34 <SmatZ> AI does "do_some_terraform" if it cannot find any way to go :)
02:30:45 <fjb> It constantly terraforms some langer parts of the map. Even I don't know where to build a way anymore in that areas. It wouldn't have been that hard before.
02:31:38 <SmatZ> AI does random terraform if the tile is not flat... though that is pretty useless if it is in a hilly terrain
02:31:48 <Gonozal_VIII> well... ai sucks
02:32:08 <Gonozal_VIII> don't play with ai ;-)
02:32:46 <SmatZ> AI put some effort into making it a bit better :-( Not invalid vehicles anymore, "big" aircraft on small airports, not trying to build road thoughr depot or tunnel entry :)
02:33:05 <fjb> It is hilly. Now it made mountains around most industries and towns. Everything sits in a hole now.
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02:33:54 <Gonozal_VIII> [03:32:24] <Gonozal_VIII> until noai branch is ready and in trunk and there are some new ais..
02:33:55 <SmatZ> fjb: hmm the more hilly, the worse... the algorithm tries to level the land (make it flat), but with hilly terrain, it fails...
02:34:03 <Gonozal_VIII> been disconnected again...
02:34:09 <fjb> Road through the depot is classic. Also building a bridge over that part of the raod that it would have nedded to connect to.
02:34:27 <SmatZ> road through depot shouldn't happen anymore :)
02:34:39 <SmatZ> but yes, that bridges everywhere are stupid
02:34:42 <fjb> It really isn't that hilly. Or at least it wasn't.
02:34:57 <SmatZ> then it's worse than I thought :-P
02:35:18 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, new form of map generator, take some flat land and let the ai mess it up^^
02:35:44 <SmatZ> it "randomly" terraforms land to make it flat
02:35:58 <fjb> Now even I don't know where to put a station this early in the game. I would need milions to pay for the terraforming.
02:36:15 <fjb> Looks like recursive randomnes.
02:36:24 <SmatZ> maybe building on slopes should be allowed for AI
02:37:16 <fjb> I should try to get everytile to the same hight, not every tile to a different hight. :-)
02:38:22 <SmatZ> then it would make hilly map flat in a moment :-D
02:38:22 <fjb> And it terraforms away the fields...
02:38:40 <Gonozal_VIII> fields come back
02:38:46 <fjb> Now it made the hilly map mountainous.
02:38:57 <fjb> Do they come back in tropic?
02:39:10 <fjb> Looks like on the moon now.
02:39:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't play tropic...
02:41:52 <DorpsGek> Gonozal_VIII: nappe* could be nappe1afk (1 day, 6 hours, 35 minutes, and 5 seconds ago) or nappe1 (1 day, 6 hours, 37 minutes, and 52 seconds ago)
02:45:30 <fjb> Now it terraforms away the tiles under my mouse which I just had terraformed.
02:46:23 <fjb> And it terraforms that fast that I have no time to change the toll for building anything there.
02:47:02 <Gonozal_VIII> fish is best for slapping
02:47:55 * Gonozal_VIII slaps ai around a bit with a large trout
02:48:08 <fjb> Hm, does the ai really try to level the land? It looks like a kind of game of life.
02:48:35 <Gonozal_VIII> it wants to be alive!
02:50:34 <fjb> It will be dead really soon. I think I have to start the game over. No chance tu build any railway or street.
02:51:01 <Gonozal_VIII> so it did a good job
02:51:35 <Gonozal_VIII> it never wanted to build anything, only tried to sabotage you ;-)
02:52:25 <Axamentia> try disabling AI rails and it doesnt terraform
02:52:45 <fjb> It is really stupid. It tried to connect two pionts which are on the same level. But it rose a four tiles high mountain in between and than gave up.
02:53:00 <Axamentia> though sometimes its nice to have the ai supposedly challenge you with rails, but its networks are genarlly laughable anyway
02:53:29 <fjb> Ai usually makes the map a bit more colorful.
02:53:34 <Axamentia> when i cant be bothered i just disable rails then the ai sticks to airports, buses and ships
02:54:02 <Axamentia> colorful and congested with its rail networks that double back on themselves several times lol
02:54:33 <Gonozal_VIII> like the civ 4 ai... if it can't kill you with a stack of 150 cavalry, 100 infantry, 100 artillery and lots of other stuff, it starts to throw nukes until the planet crumbles and everybody loses^^
02:55:11 <Axamentia> the civ ai was always amusing
02:55:35 <Axamentia> Like the ai in civ3 which i still play which starts pointless wars, when your ten times bigger than it lol
02:55:42 <SmatZ> I played Civilization a lot
02:55:50 <SmatZ> I mean, the original Civilization :)
02:56:15 <Axamentia> Lol yeah i remember the dos version, used to play that and the orginal railroad tycoon
02:56:18 <fjb> Civ III ai wasn't that bad. Sound it got worse in Civ 4.
02:56:22 <Axamentia> Oh and colonization
02:56:37 <Gonozal_VIII> it managed to destroy the planet in a single turn^^
02:56:57 <Gonozal_VIII> more than 100 nukes launched
02:57:13 <fjb> I never saw the Civ III ai do that.
02:57:47 <SmatZ> once I found where the player money are stored in the savegame, the Civilization was no challenge for me :-D
02:58:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12135 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp gui.h rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp):
02:58:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Road and rail bridge selection windows were identical apart the caption. So remove one window definition and set manually the caption accordingly.
02:58:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: prepare the "type" of bridge parameter only once, at the beginning of the selection process. Makes less magic around.
02:58:15 <fjb> SmatZ: You don't have to cheat...
02:58:35 <Axamentia> heh civ3 i remember if you asked to ai to give 999999999999999 gold per turn for 1 gold lump sum it would
02:58:47 <SmatZ> yeah, I was really excited by all these things I could hexedit :) Civilization, Stunts, TestDrive, TransportTycoon... :-)
02:59:43 <SmatZ> Belugas haven't you ever played games?
02:59:49 * Belugas is going to take care of some auto-inflicted conflicts
02:59:52 <fjb> Belugas: Nothing of interest. Stick to the real world, OpenTTD.
02:59:53 <SmatZ> or computer games at all
02:59:59 <Belugas> not much, to be honest
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03:00:10 <Belugas> ottd a lot, before coding
03:00:23 <Belugas> the Myst series a lto too
03:00:31 <Axamentia> Myst was rather good
03:00:41 <Axamentia> I miss the adventure style and immersion games
03:00:56 <SmatZ> yeah, I loved adventures... but are there any adventures nowadays?
03:01:03 <Axamentia> Things like Monkey Island, Broken Sword, Gabriel Knight, Myst, Phantasmagoria
03:01:22 <Axamentia> No smatz, all the kids want is shooters
03:01:29 <Gonozal_VIII> i played a lot of scorched earth^^
03:01:40 * Belugas hates shooters to the outmost
03:02:02 <SmatZ> it was perfect... though we had Yankee Doodle (Vienna, you should know ;-) in that game...
03:02:04 <Axamentia> I dont mind some of them, but i lose intrest with shooters quickly
03:02:06 <Gonozal_VIII> on a pc that was so slow that a death head attack took some minutes^^
03:02:11 <SmatZ> we got infected our computer many times...
03:02:58 <SmatZ> yeah, I had to reset that PC, sometimes it really looked to be locked up
03:03:35 <Axamentia> my fav games, have always been sim, strategy and adventure
03:03:37 <Gonozal_VIII> did you sometimes crash other tanks by driving over them?^^
03:04:39 * fjb once played Castle Wolfenstein years ago.
03:04:42 <Axamentia> mind you in the chop/shoot/slash, there were RPG hybrids liek eye of the beholder that were good
03:04:43 <SmatZ> I bought a power shield and the most destructive weapon :-D
03:04:58 <SmatZ> I didn't like Wolfenstein :-(
03:04:58 <Gonozal_VIII> that would be death head then ;-)
03:05:15 <Gonozal_VIII> or a nuke but that does only one boom...
03:05:18 * fjb didn't like it either. But the patches were fun.
03:05:28 <SmatZ> most likely, though it was really expensive, 20 000 I think :-) 12 000 for nuke IIRC
03:05:40 <Gonozal_VIII> yep, that's deathhead
03:05:57 <Gonozal_VIII> baby rollers are fun^^
03:06:38 <SmatZ> shield won't help you, only parachute
03:07:58 <Gonozal_VIII> hot napalm with a lazy boy guidance systam through a hill launched into the inside of an opponents heavy shield^^
03:08:19 <fjb> The ai still teraaforms the same regions of the map over and over again.
03:08:32 <Gonozal_VIII> shield fills up with napalm^^
03:08:44 <SmatZ> I don't remember using napalm :) I was really young when I played it :_(
03:08:46 <Axamentia> i usually build something on it fjb: just to annoy it
03:08:55 <SmatZ> fjb: AI doesn't have to pay for it :)
03:09:29 <fjb> Axamentia: The areas are too big for that. I'm still early in the game.
03:09:45 <SmatZ> fjb: I know you know :)
03:09:56 <fjb> Does it ever stop to terraform half of the map?
03:10:23 <Gonozal_VIII> buy the pieces of land on each side of the station it wants to connect
03:10:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12136 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp gui.h): -Fix(r12135): Code style compliance and... code style as such
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03:11:04 <Belugas> and now, time to disappear
03:11:40 <Jaybud> Quick question: Which variable in openttd.cfg will disable the needless "Blah production at Blahville has gone up/down X%"?
03:11:58 * Belugas 's wife is happy, i'm not too late this time :S
03:12:08 <Gonozal_VIII> you can change that ingame
03:12:32 <Gonozal_VIII> newspaper icon in the menubar
03:13:00 <fjb> It terraforms without having a station there.
03:13:19 <Gonozal_VIII> and that doesn't make sense^^
03:13:33 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe it's trying to place an airport?
03:14:27 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Don't know what it wants to build. There is constant terraforming in some parts of the map.
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07:25:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12137 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix [FS#1769]: Show cargo capacity for articulated vehicles correctly in the purchase list. Multiple cargo types can also now been shown.
07:26:51 <Gonozal_VIII> how do you get multiple cargo types in an articulated vehicle?
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07:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> like a plane that carries passengers and mail?
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09:14:33 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody here anymore?
09:15:32 <Gonozal_VIII> well... you were the last one that wrote something here
09:15:46 <Gonozal_VIII> three hours ago..
09:16:48 <Forked> thats a lie.. eddie stopped by
09:17:18 <Gonozal_VIII> he did? nothing in the logs
09:17:55 <Forked> at 8:32:01 my time .. 3 minutes after you quit =p .. 3 minutes before you came back
09:18:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i disconnect all the time, you have to be more specific there^^
09:18:38 <Forked> I said quit, not time out =p
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09:19:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i say hi to the peter
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10:19:21 *** ChanServ changes topic to "0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory"
10:19:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12138 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not allow adding tram to rail-road crossing when there is a vehicle on it
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10:43:19 <Gonozal> did you use that iscrossingbarred thingy for that smatz?
10:45:12 <peter1138> A barred crossing does not necessarily have a vehicle on it.
10:45:25 <peter1138> Nor is it barred if a vehicle is crossing it.
10:45:43 <Gonozal> ah, you could build on it with rvs on?
10:46:07 <Gonozal> i thought only trains were not checked
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10:52:06 <Gonozal> gotos attract raptors
10:52:54 <peter1138> We will attack them with our hogweed hairs.
10:54:54 <Gonozal> that's more than 171!
10:55:13 <Noldo> some are in the comments thought :)
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11:29:50 <Gonozal_VIII> (disconnecting all the time, logs and so on...)
11:34:50 <White_Rabbit> I'm getting the New Haven livery in all climates, instead of Rio Grande/Santa Fe liveries in sub-arctic/tropical, for the PA-1 loco (US set) in r12124 and r12133 but not r12114, where climate-based liveries work as they should
11:35:54 <Gonozal_VIII> what about 12138?
11:38:11 <peter1138> Could be r12124 then...
11:38:16 <Gonozal_VIII> ooor what about 12123? 12124 changed stuff about newgrf action 2 stuff
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11:54:23 <peter1138> I can't see anything obviously wrong with it.
11:55:27 <peter1138> + if (GetGlobalVariable(variable, &value)) return variable;
11:55:33 <peter1138> + if (GetGlobalVariable(variable, &value)) return value;
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11:59:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12139 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Fix (r12124): The global variable value should be returned, not the variable.
11:59:49 <Gonozal_VIII> yay for fast bugfix
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12:17:01 <Gonozal_VIII> ERROR: Can't connect to GRFCrawler Database
12:18:44 <Gonozal_VIII> and nobody's writing on the forum or here, that's boring
12:19:05 <Forked> do my job and I'll write stuff..
12:19:36 <Gonozal_VIII> internet thingy?
12:21:28 <Gonozal_VIII> anybody got some nice patches lying around waiting to be included in my patchpack?^^
12:25:35 <Tekky> hehe, the most important one, YAPP, is already included :) Thx...
12:26:03 <Gonozal_VIII> i hope that one still works correctly after the changes i had to make today^^
12:26:17 <Gonozal_VIII> had to change that one the most
12:26:39 <Gonozal_VIII> well, it did work in my testing...
12:26:48 <Gonozal_VIII> but you never know with changing stuff^^
12:27:29 <Tekky> michi_cc told me that he wanted to release a new version of YAPP by today. So I guess you will have to do all this changes again, then :)
12:28:17 <Gonozal_VIII> not really, most of the changes were to keep up with the trunk changes...
12:28:32 <Gonozal_VIII> he will have to do that too
12:28:34 <Tekky> and michi_cc said he made many little changes, so you will have to compensate for them :)
12:28:48 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll just use his new version :-)
12:29:31 <Gonozal_VIII> i update and keep all patches seperated so i can just exchange/add/remove them
12:29:32 <Tekky> let's hope his new version doesn't crash, because then your new version will also crash :)
12:30:06 <Gonozal_VIII> the merging part is quite easy
12:30:41 <Gonozal_VIII> updating, compiling, testing... that takes time
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12:35:26 <Gonozal_VIII> well i'm ok... thanks... you?
12:36:14 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, are you bothering with trying to keep version compatibility between versions?
12:36:20 <peter1138> (Personally I wouldn't bother)
12:36:38 <dragonhorseboy> doing ok for now me think
12:36:51 <Gonozal_VIII> no i'm trying to keep it able to load current trunk...
12:38:00 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't understand that savegame version number thingy next to the settings, they explained it to me in my topic, now i did it that way :-)
12:40:42 <Gonozal_VIII> got to go, i'll be back later in the afternoon
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15:13:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12140 /trunk/src/ (spritecache.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: A bit of code style fixes(Geektoo).
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15:26:21 <dragonhorseboy> anyone here played Jim Power's Scenarios&Games?
15:26:23 <dragonhorseboy> just curious :p
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15:45:27 <White_Rabbit> dragonhorseboy, I've played a few of them
15:45:44 <White_Rabbit> Mid Central Rails, Western Pacific Rails, Virginia Rails, and North Eastern Rails
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15:47:31 <dragonhorseboy> white_rabbit heh nice
15:47:43 <dragonhorseboy> me only just now thinking of trying one of them...the last one re brazil :p
15:51:09 <dragonhorseboy> white_rabbit just curious tho...
15:51:22 <dragonhorseboy> do you often get errors about custom grfs when loading his scenarios?
15:53:12 <White_Rabbit> I do now, but OTTD used to not load the newGRF settings of scenarios and savegames, and instead use that of openttd.cfg, so I wouldn't get any errors
15:53:34 <dragonhorseboy> was wondering about that one..thanks anyhow
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15:56:09 <dragonhorseboy> starting in 1935 with MB's ships and trains is sure interesting
15:56:23 <dragonhorseboy> freights are literally drags hehe (69km/h for two coal ones now if you would)
15:56:41 <dragonhorseboy> might have to see about trying the BR 01 for early express passengers when I can get $
15:59:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12141 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Introduce IsNormalRoad[Tile](), IsRoadDepot[Tile]() and HasTileRoadType(); and use them.
16:00:00 <dragonhorseboy> say white_rabbit just had to ask but which train(set(s)) do you like? ^_^
16:01:33 <dragonhorseboy> hylje...heh thanks wasn't sure how to bracket that one ^_^
16:01:36 <dragonhorseboy> btw how're you?
16:01:59 <White_Rabbit> US Set, UKRS and US Set
16:02:11 <hylje> going to try tackling a problem unfamiliar to me
16:02:30 <dragonhorseboy> hylje...what kind if you mind me asking?
16:02:58 <hylje> deadlock, more precisely
16:04:00 <dragonhorseboy> white_rabbit ah..I still remember playing with the earlier (now to think about it, I liked that one better than the current one) ukrs but anyway now settling on dbsetxl for temperate, unsure on arctic (MB arctic, NSB, or arctic-only NARS?), and tropical hmm can't tell - working on a little surprise myself :p
16:05:42 <dragonhorseboy> don't ask me why but I'm not 100% fond of the 'limit on mixing engines' in newer ukrs
16:06:17 <dragonhorseboy> still liked the times I was adding small steam or diesel on front of the earlier dmus to make them giddyup the slopes a lot better due to just a bit more traction :p
16:07:57 <dragonhorseboy> eg 110km/h kneeling down to 30-40km/h on its own but storming close to 110km/h easily with a 2-6-4T on head
16:08:10 <dragonhorseboy> talk about just a bit more traction *rolls eyes*
16:08:34 <dragonhorseboy> (and thats with only a single unpowered coach used...talk about uk hps)
16:09:52 <dragonhorseboy> to our own ok? ;)
16:10:47 <White_Rabbit> I don't recall the UKRS having any such restrictions. I thought you could basically attach anything to anything
16:13:18 <dragonhorseboy> white_rabbit the newer ukrs does have restrictions
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21:01:52 <dragonhorseboy> sure is quiet here
21:02:27 <dragonhorseboy> wondering where white is now too now that I think about it (re openttd game request)
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21:10:52 <Phantasm> Is there any way to make it so there is no way whatsoever for a train to pass a station without stopping to it?
21:11:24 <Phantasm> Having problems with trains going past station without stopping it, going to depot for maintenenace and then going backward the track over to the station.
21:11:38 <De_Ghost> have depots on borth sides :)
21:11:44 <Phantasm> De_Ghost: I don't want to.
21:11:50 <Phantasm> I want to priorize the transporting speed.
21:12:05 <Phantasm> As going to depot would make the transportation time like 4x the normal.
21:12:19 <Phantasm> glx: So, it will forbid the train from going to depot at all?
21:13:04 <Phantasm> In this case that would work, but in general case that is not really an option.
21:13:18 <Gonozal_VIII> use a service at order
21:13:23 <glx> with it on (or off, I can't remember) trains only stop in stations in the order list
21:13:27 <Phantasm> It would be obvious normal behaviour for trains to stop on station they have on their route before going to depot for normal maintenance.
21:13:45 <Gonozal_VIII> use a service at order
21:14:06 <Phantasm> Can't. I have 20 depots from which it has to pick one based on the track it is using.
21:14:10 <Gonozal_VIII> no random depot servicing then, will service only if that order is active
21:14:54 <Phantasm> I suppose I just have to remove those depots and keep them only at just before loading.
21:15:09 <Gonozal_VIII> use service at order :P
21:15:47 <Phantasm> There is no way to order them to go to 'any one of list of 20 depots'.
21:15:48 <Gonozal_VIII> group them, share orderize them, give each group service at order for one of those 20 depots
21:16:13 <guru3> peter1138: it just looks cool i guess
21:16:19 <Phantasm> Gonozal_VIII: One won't do, as it must be able to go to any one of those 20 or it will not work.
21:16:31 <peter1138> Damn, not a new landscape generator then ;(
21:16:34 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm or give them service at orders for all 20 depots
21:16:55 <Phantasm> They would want to go to all of them and not just at one.
21:17:09 <Gonozal_VIII> why? service interval 10 days?
21:17:25 <guru3> peter1138: i didn't know openttd was looking for one
21:17:29 <guru3> it's not terribly complex
21:17:30 <Phantasm> It is a route with 1 track (both ways) and 20 tracks worth stations at ends.
21:17:39 <peter1138> You can never have enough landscape generators...
21:17:42 <Phantasm> And depots are on the tracks next to stations.
21:17:49 <Gonozal_VIII> service at order for every depot :-)
21:18:02 <Gonozal_VIII> it will use the next depot when it needs servicing
21:18:21 <Gonozal_VIII> it will skip the orders if it doesn't need servicing
21:18:36 <Phantasm> Have to test that one out.
21:18:57 <Phantasm> Will make a messy order list though.
21:19:15 <Gonozal_VIII> playing with paxdest?
21:19:45 <Gonozal_VIII> why else would you want a train to stop at 20 stations?
21:19:59 <Phantasm> Single station with 20 tracks.
21:20:16 <Phantasm> It will go to one of those 20 trakcs based on which one is free.
21:20:19 <Gonozal_VIII> depot for every track? strange...
21:20:42 <Phantasm> How do you think I can get continnous flood of maglevs going on a single track if I had a depot on it?
21:21:01 <Phantasm> 16 m/s speed going to/from depot would kill the whole route.
21:21:05 <Gonozal_VIII> long enough slowdown and acceleration lines
21:21:11 <Phantasm> So the only options is to have the depots next to stations.
21:21:24 <Phantasm> Gonozal_VIII: With 10 depots or so to allow for enough way.
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21:21:41 <Phantasm> Easier to put them next to stations where the tracks are already separated.
21:22:06 <Phantasm> How do I put such service order that will not force train to go to the depot at all times?
21:22:46 <Phantasm> Ok, that could be arranged, but it is a hell of a lot of work to do on a case that should work by default.
21:22:55 <Gonozal_VIII> mind that pathfinder doesn't look past the next order
21:23:17 <Gonozal_VIII> give savegame to the gono
21:23:43 <Phantasm> Gonozal_VIII: It finds the depot behind the station and goes to it without stopping at station and thus it needs to go back to the station.
21:23:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i know, automatic servicing
21:24:10 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't do that with service at order
21:24:14 <Gonozal_VIII> savegame please :P
21:25:41 <Gonozal_VIII> ooooh bad thingy, bad
21:25:52 <Phantasm> Btw, I'm disappointed at how little coal those coal mines produce. :/
21:26:15 <Phantasm> As you see, the not stopping to station is totally ruining the performance at unloading station as well as the revenue is dropping.
21:26:43 <Gonozal_VIII> those depots can't be there
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21:27:16 <Phantasm> Ok, sure the revenue drop is only some 4% or so, but still.. And performance will significantly matter once those ocal mines start producing more.
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21:27:30 <Phantasm> I suppose I could do with just one depot on the whole circle.
21:27:41 <Phantasm> One group of depots*
21:27:53 <Phantasm> But still, it doesn't take away the problem of the idiotic behaviour.
21:28:15 <Phantasm> If I had put one way lights there it would have to go through all the circle to get unloading.
21:28:38 <Belugas> have a nice evening all
21:28:44 <Phantasm> That doesn't fix the problem in game. It is a bypass for the problem, but the problems exists no matter what.
21:29:36 <Phantasm> Great.. Crashed 2 trains removing depots. ;P
21:31:02 <Phantasm> Anyway, as that savegame shows, a single track can haul pretty much anything.
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21:35:54 <Phantasm> 8688 tonns of coal per month.
22:05:56 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm does trunk assert if a roadvehicle drives over a crossing?
22:06:41 <Gonozal_VIII> the bug seems to be in the part that draws oneway sprites... patches didn't change that
22:07:15 <peter1138> oneway sprites... on a crossing?
22:07:28 <Gonozal_VIII> it checks for that
22:07:34 <Gonozal_VIII> if (road != ROAD_NONE) {
22:07:38 <Gonozal_VIII> includes crossing
22:07:59 <Gonozal_VIII> next line is DisallowedRoadDirections drd = GetDisallowedRoadDirections(ti->tile);
22:08:15 <Gonozal_VIII> and GetDisallowedRoadDirections( asserts for normalroadbla
22:08:24 <dragonhorseboy> *still wishes there was an openttd option for the same feature in ttdp....to have all *** engineers slow down at any road crossings :p
22:12:05 <Phantasm> It sure is nasty to get ratio drop for the station from too much cargo waiting even when there are 10 trains constantly waiting for cargo (and not yet reserved full amount to be loaded).
22:12:21 <Phantasm> Though with 80 coal mines that might have something to do with it. ;P
22:12:39 <dragonhorseboy> whats the length of your trains?
22:12:56 <Phantasm> 40 (20 squares) with 3x2 engine.. So 1258 coal per train.
22:13:16 <Gonozal_VIII> 5 squares max now
22:13:18 <Phantasm> The average amount of coal there is 300-400.. And it varies between 100-700.
22:13:27 <dragonhorseboy> I think there's maybe the problem there
22:13:38 <dragonhorseboy> 1258 tonnes might be too much to wait for the entire amount at once
22:13:40 <Gonozal_VIII> mammoth trains disabled
22:13:51 <Phantasm> dragonhorseboy: It loads trains partly.
22:13:59 <Phantasm> So it doesn't need full amount to load.
22:14:59 <Phantasm> The problem is just that 80 coal mines produce too much coal in the interval the trains try to load coal.
22:15:32 <peter1138> Heh, that cargo goes up quickly :)
22:16:18 <dragonhorseboy> what the blazing are you trying to do with 80 mines in first place tho? :p
22:16:33 <peter1138> this is one case where 'improved loading algo' isn't
22:16:50 <Phantasm> A month is about 70 seconds.. So 10-15 Gg of coal a month means 140-215 Mg of coal a second.
22:17:00 <Phantasm> peter1138: Yes, I am using improved loading algo.
22:17:21 <Phantasm> Ok, now disabled it.
22:17:41 <Phantasm> Now it is almsot always 0, but goes to 10-200 Mg at times.
22:17:44 <dragonhorseboy> 3 mines I could understand but not *80* 0_o
22:17:48 <Phantasm> Now the rating is going up.
22:18:17 <peter1138> nice arrangement of oil wells :p
22:19:32 <dragonhorseboy> well meh most of my coal trains had always been like 100-450 tonnes of coal each only ^_^
22:21:05 <Phantasm> I'm starting to see a bottleneck on that single rail soon. ;P
22:21:19 <dragonhorseboy> which of...whats the length of your express trains typically?
22:21:30 <dragonhorseboy> phantasm....who's single rail?
22:23:01 <dragonhorseboy> btw that train question above was to anyone in here ;)
22:23:37 <Phantasm> I have 17 Gg of coal a month being hauled on single track.
22:23:52 <Phantasm> (That is 17 000 tonns.)
22:24:06 <Phantasm> My trains are typically 5, 7 or 10 squares long. 10 rarely.
22:24:25 <Phantasm> Sometimes only 3 if the production is low.
22:25:22 <dragonhorseboy> and passengers or you not into that phantasm?
22:25:30 <Phantasm> With 1258 tonns of coal per train that is 13.5 trains a month.
22:25:55 <Phantasm> dragonhorseboy: When I transport passengers (and mail) with train, same applies.
22:26:15 <Phantasm> If it were to be less than 3 squares long, I wouldn't make a train for it.
22:27:15 <dragonhorseboy> for me hmmm...
22:28:26 <dragonhorseboy> usually engine+mail+coach+coach at minimum (or any dmu/emu with one mail car and optional coach) ... up to likely 3-4 mail cars and 10-14 coaches (unless as a mail train which in that case, no passengers can board sorry! :p )
22:29:31 <dragonhorseboy> sometimes ending up with what appear to be just same BR103's on a particular route but with different generation mix of paintjobs sure sometimes look unusual ^_^
22:32:14 <dragonhorseboy> think one time I was serving one network that had three different generation of BR103's beside some different red units ... heh... "station to dispatcher, clear the.....umm.....blue train through *hangs phone*"
22:32:19 <Phantasm> Ok, 20 Gg is about the limit a single rail can handle (with 20 squares trains of 3 double magnel engines and 34 of 37 tonn coal wagons totalling 1258 tonns of coal per train.. That is with normal breakdowns.
22:32:33 <fjb> dragonhorseboy: You can never build anything more colorful than the real DB mixed in their trains.
22:33:39 <dragonhorseboy> fjb..true and thats why I think I really like the dbsetxl and will be happy to upgrade as soon as I hear anything newer than the current 0.82 version someday :p
22:34:25 <peter1138> The mythical "next release"
22:34:46 <dragonhorseboy> I sometimes have the smaller steamers and early electric boxcabs mingle with each others (same mainline and same speed limit due to freight cars themself) ^_^
22:34:51 <fjb_> I'm expecting it not before next year.
22:35:27 <dragonhorseboy> the steamers are still rather cheap for short trains that probably wouldn't earn much $ but could be useful while the electrics handle the heavy work usually
22:36:28 <dragonhorseboy> eg moving 88 tonnes of grain about 16 tiles to a busy food processing plant for example [lot cheaper than a rv when I add up the running cost, go figure]
22:36:35 <fjb_> Electric locomotives are cheaper to run than steam engines.
22:38:28 <dragonhorseboy> fjb...well the BR75 is cheaper and runs cheaper than any of the reliable E-class' (mind you I do always have reduced breakdown difficulity setting so)
22:38:42 <dragonhorseboy> I don't have a big number of these steamers tho
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22:42:31 <dragonhorseboy> I do use these E94 (german crocodile) at times on long coal drags tho :p
22:43:09 <dragonhorseboy> I never could quite understand (but still use them heh) these ET-87's .. strange thing with 2+1 axle coaches bracketting a little locomotive
22:43:09 <fjb_> That's what they were build for.
22:45:03 <dragonhorseboy> yeah but whats up with that boxcab-looking engine in middle anyway?
22:45:13 <dragonhorseboy> and the odd 2+1 axles arrangement on the coaches too
22:47:52 <dragonhorseboy> at least if there's one favorite for express that I kinda have - its the VT11.5 (just...if that thing wasn't just a big doggy with multiply cars on slopes but can't fault it in-game I guess)
22:52:07 <dragonhorseboy> hmm don't understand german myself but nice site with some old photos of them
22:53:13 <fjb_> You could use the babel fish to translate it.
22:57:03 <dragonhorseboy> remind me...what was the class for these red rail buses that often operated in powered+dummy pairs? (maerklin had a model of these for a long time too)
22:58:43 <dragonhorseboy> btw I always wondered why the only ones I even know of seem to be from DB themself [again] but their few generations of battery railcars are rather interesting .. neverminding that MB has them in dbsetxl too :p
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22:59:50 <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: should I make .patch or .diff? :)
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23:00:06 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the same ;-)
23:00:46 <fjb> There were only few rail companies beside the DB at that time in Germany. DB had bought almost all of them.
23:01:10 <dragonhorseboy> and now DB is wanting to buy EWS in uk wasn't it?
23:01:53 <fjb> Sadly they are going that way.
23:02:14 <dragonhorseboy> <has a few 'europe: today's railways' issues here
23:02:21 <dragonhorseboy> thats how I heard of that
23:03:20 <fjb> But there are many railway companies in Germany today.
23:04:48 <dragonhorseboy> there were so many in north america in the past ... now just a few major names aside to many local shortlines ^_^
23:06:41 <fjb> There were many in the early years of railway in germany. Then the DR and later DB bought them all. And now we have many companies again.
23:09:39 <dragonhorseboy> do you still have any of these old red&yellow (well not exactly yellow but I forgot what that was called again) s-bahn cars running?
23:09:47 <Axamentia> Looks at british railways and cries ;(
23:10:36 <Axamentia> Im not against DB taking over EWS wish theyd buy some of our passenger services and improve them
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23:11:06 <Axamentia> Far more blooming effiecent that what weve had here since BR was privatised
23:12:10 <fjb> Red and yellow sounds like Berlin. I don't think they are still using that old trains.
23:12:50 <fjb> Passenger service of the DB AG is still ok. But they are not fully privatised yet.
23:15:54 <Axamentia> Ttry using the train in the uk, its about as reliable and dependable as a used car salesman
23:16:37 <Prof_Frink> Axamentia: Trains are mostly reliable, they're just expensive
23:16:44 <dragonhorseboy> fjb well in one of the 2007 'todays railway' europe issue I got...there was one artist render of a new red commuter train and guess what was in the background on another two platforms in the station -- these old berlin sbahn cars :p
23:16:56 <Prof_Frink> Of course, if there's a leaf on the line, it's a different story
23:17:01 <dragonhorseboy> hmm let me see if I can find it..only have several issues anyhow
23:17:41 <fjb> dragonhorseboy: Ok, then they are using them for historic reasons.
23:18:09 <fjb> Tourists like old trains.
23:18:20 <Axamentia> Prof frink: not in thhe northwest, but yes they are really overpriced
23:18:34 <fjb> The Harzquerbahn is using almost only steam engines for that reason.
23:18:57 <fjb> They used some diesel engines, but the tourists didn't like them.
23:19:39 <dragonhorseboy> hmm here's something else...
23:20:07 <dragonhorseboy> SWEG branch seem to have owned these old railbuses but they're not even red anymore (rather white bottom and yellow top)
23:20:23 <Axamentia> i know there;'s a new passenger steam operation in manchester now
23:20:45 <dragonhorseboy> anyway here we are...found it...
23:20:47 <Axamentia> well its more of an atraction, but its operating out of a mainline station
23:21:38 <dragonhorseboy> issue no 135 (march 2007) ... DB is to order 321 (odd number, don't look at me! heh) Talent 2 EMU's from Bombardier
23:22:02 <dragonhorseboy> 1.2 billion euro pricetag
23:23:55 <dragonhorseboy> if anyone even have these issues..the small article mentions that the Talent 2's were describled in TR EU 132 (which if I go by math of, that would have to be december 2006)
23:24:04 <dragonhorseboy> I don't tho ^_^
23:24:30 <Prof_Frink> Axamentia: Well, it's your own silly fault for being Northern
23:25:50 <Axamentia> Prof Frink: Im even worse im scottish, i just happen to live in manchester
23:34:13 <dragonhorseboy> yeah now I remember...
23:34:18 <dragonhorseboy> its called 'cream'
23:34:38 <dragonhorseboy> I sometimes forget because I've never heard of any cream paintjobs over here
23:34:42 <Phantasm> Lev4 'Chimaera' (Electric) sure is way too weak. The power equals that of lev1 'Leviathan' (Electric)...
23:35:24 <dragonhorseboy> phantasm..... -_-
23:35:36 <guru3> i have way too much free time :<
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23:36:26 <fjb> Cream was often used in germany.
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23:37:13 <fjb> guru3: You could implement it into OTTD.
23:37:45 <guru3> peter also suggested that
23:37:55 * guru3 is vaugely considering the idea
23:38:08 <guru3> its just that my generator is a little short on logic
23:38:10 <Phantasm> In fact it seems all dual length engines have half the power they would have in reality.
23:38:28 <Phantasm> Comparing the speed and power to normal length engines that is.
23:38:50 <dragonhorseboy> you sure it isn't a matter of the buy list eg showing 2000hp but when a train's made its really 2x2000?
23:38:53 * dragonhorseboy is just checking
23:41:21 <Phantasm> Somehow my train system is causing incorrect train is lost messages all the time.
23:41:31 <Phantasm> Even though all the trains are traveling just as they are supposed to.
23:52:29 <Tefad> Phantasm: it's probably because they take too long to get to their destination
23:52:44 <Tefad> i think there's a patch setting for how long it takes a train to trigger the lost message
23:55:40 <dragonhorseboy> either way...just curious about another preference from others in here again --- do you even use waypoints?
23:56:30 <Phantasm> My routes tend to have no possible wrong turns.
23:57:17 <fjb> I'm sorting trains to different tracks or platforms.
continue to next day ⏵
