IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-12
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00:00:09 <Slayerofrage> Dragonhorseboy: i cant recall that scene lol, i only watch it when it comes on the tv (when i rarely watch tv) lol
00:00:19 <fryfrog> it is less trying to pre-siginal a specific junktion and more trying to figure out how they work so i can make good pre-signals everywhere
00:00:31 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage oh blah :p
00:00:41 <dragonhorseboy> fryfrog...hmmm can't help then sorry ^_^
00:01:00 <Slayerofrage> isnt there a guide on the wiki?
00:01:17 <fryfrog> i've read it, and a few others... i guess my brain is just not making the logical connection
00:01:25 <fryfrog> i mean, i *sort* of understand them
00:01:35 <Slayerofrage> i also remember openttd coop had a good guide for pre signals
00:01:50 <fryfrog> and i can create a *sort* of complex network that works... but then, occasionally the trains will get stuck and i'll be like "humm, wtf"
00:02:18 <Slayerofrage> co-operative they play coop games
00:02:19 <dragonhorseboy> fryfrog...hehe...
00:02:20 <fryfrog> google returns an irc channel?
00:02:45 <fryfrog> ah, and they have a wiki! :)
00:03:41 <Slayerofrage> you know reading peoples problems with presignals on the forums, i wonder how anyone is ever gonna learn pbs if they get it working lol
00:03:57 <Slayerofrage> still i want pbs lol
00:03:58 <fryfrog> what does "at least LL___RR or higher" mean?
00:04:22 <fryfrog> i stumbled on a page about pbs, it sounded like it'd make things easier with it's "debug" mode showing how a train will path
00:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> fryfrog: two rails on "left" side, space inbetween, two rails on "right" side
00:04:51 <fryfrog> ah, so that would be 2 one ways in each direction?
00:05:21 <fryfrog> i liked ttd cause it was like my very own massive play train set :)
00:05:24 <Andel> but remember to signal them correctly
00:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> don't listen to the coopers too closely, they are building huge ass unrealistic networks
00:05:30 <Andel> locomotion is better though
00:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> fine tuned for mega high throughput
00:06:01 <fryfrog> can coop games share the same rail network?
00:06:15 <nappe1> there's something _very_ fishy going on at DrawGraph()... It even shows correct max values if I print them to console, but the y-axis scale is still doubled. So, it's quite lot of console printing to hunt down, where it doubles y-axis line labels...
00:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> several players can join the same company
00:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you cannot share rails between companies
00:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport.%2024.%20Jan%201951.png <- station where presignals work quite well
00:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport.%2024.%20Dez%201939.png <- station where presignals don't work
00:08:30 <dragonhorseboy> eddi....you know whats funny?
00:08:41 <fryfrog> what sort of station is that? it looks different?
00:08:59 <dragonhorseboy> I used to play a short co-op game with someone for several game years some time ago? it was some kind of mini-in version that somehow everyone suddenly abandoned -_-
00:09:11 <dragonhorseboy> you should had seen the way red trains were loading at white stations etc :p
00:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> fryfrog: the passenger stations are from the newstations grf, the others from several industrial stations grf
00:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> miniin had the subsidiaries patch included, yes
00:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it has become unmaintainable
00:10:47 <Slayerofrage> the miniin was err intresting
00:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it was decided that this patch should not come into trunk
00:11:00 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...how come? it was rather working quite well with 4 players....but I do kinda recall there was just one problem tho...
00:11:15 <dragonhorseboy> silly diagonal road crossings didn't build themself right (when it was the town doing it)....
00:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> and lots of desyncs were reported
00:11:25 <dragonhorseboy> often the new tiles end up 90 degree from the adjacent road tile
00:11:42 <Belugas> plus, it was one of the biggest patches ever
00:11:45 <Slayerofrage> it was buggy when i played it
00:11:53 <dragonhorseboy> desyncs? odd.... this was canada/us/australia/uk (literally..four different countries heh) with canada hosting
00:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would countries matter?
00:12:13 <dragonhorseboy> hm or maybe for some reason we got too lucky?
00:13:18 <nappe1> Subsidiaries patch was pretty stable, many ofd the other patches in MiniIn weren't...
00:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> the diagonal crossings were a neat experiment, but didn't work out too well
00:14:32 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...yeah I kept seeing too many misaligned ones from towns -- like as if uhh yeah as if anyone could bother building S curved rails instead
00:14:39 <nappe1> and for example Day Length was set up as client side patch, so each client could have their own time space continum, which caused these disconnections in it. (yes, some othjers do like Back to The Future ;) )
00:15:02 * dragonhorseboy pokes nappel to get out of 2008 already :p
00:15:20 <Slayerofrage> hmm back_to_the_futurew.grf lol
00:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't mean that, that could possibly have been fixed, but there was an issue with half-closed crossings when you had several parallel tracks
00:16:33 * nappe1 has serious troubles with Day Lenght patch already, without BTTF making changes in code in revisions committed to trunk several years ago... ;)
00:16:41 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage lol
00:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the PBS reservation was never really fixed
00:17:16 <dragonhorseboy> nappel...ha....can I ask you something....insert random quotes that was only in BTTF into your committs and see who else has a laughter :p
00:17:45 <dragonhorseboy> "great scott!" would be a good one for difficult messy lines
00:17:58 <dragonhorseboy> or marty's "holy shit" for a line thats just not what it should be
00:18:05 <dragonhorseboy> and this could keep going in ;)
00:18:37 <dragonhorseboy> oh yeah "what the hell is going on?" (biff watching delorean go from 1985 to 2015) too :)
00:18:51 <nappe1> come on! how on earth this thing can even work?? :D
00:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> dragonhorseboy: have you considered getting treatment?
00:19:05 <dragonhorseboy> nappel....ROFL
00:19:13 <dragonhorseboy> eddi....umm....get lost? ;)
00:19:39 <Slayerofrage> could be intresting to have ingame quotes lol!
00:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> all episodes that aired yet
00:20:18 <Slayerofrage> Though id prefer Get to ze chopper!! when you create a heliport now that would make me laugh
00:20:32 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage :p
00:21:26 <nappe1> I print out at console that says 208,182,156,130,104,78,52,26,0 and at the same time, on screen I have graph where values go 416,364,312,260,208,156,104,52,0 and those are printed in the very same part of the code, from exactly same arrays. :D
00:21:38 <Slayerofrage> ahh eddi: i was wondering what you were on about (i have lost..) then figured it out with the episodes lol
00:21:55 <dragonhorseboy> nappel...that reminds me of something tho...
00:22:42 <dragonhorseboy> james bond looking through finance papers and telling a young lady nearby that the figures are round
00:23:01 <dragonhorseboy> as if 'figures' could be refering to both the lady and the papers altogether :p
00:26:49 <dragonhorseboy> hm either way just asking but anyone in here use ecs or nah?
00:27:19 <Slayerofrage> esc.. sometimes i use it, sometimes i find it gets in the way of a good game
00:28:09 <Slayerofrage> i find it can be a pain with some nightlys
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00:34:25 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage I'll have to agree
00:34:38 <Slayerofrage> i like the concept of ecs
00:35:04 <Slayerofrage> but some of the vectors within it seem confused
00:35:51 <Slayerofrage> Also for the smaller game, to many industry types, make it difficult to have any real network
00:36:16 <dragonhorseboy> at least you can pick which ecs vector you'll rather like to have now can't you?
00:36:18 *** [1]Roujin is now known as Roujin
00:36:20 <fryfrog> stupid question... what does "split before join" mean?
00:36:49 <Slayerofrage> yeah i think you can have the different vectors is good
00:37:16 <Slayerofrage> Though if im feeling really ready for a challenge a big map with them all can be fun
00:37:47 <Slayerofrage> fryfrog: in a pbs concept?
00:38:10 *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
00:38:14 <Slayerofrage> correction fryfrog: in a presignal concept lol
00:38:35 <fryfrog> i'm not sure, is "split before merge" related to pre-siginaling?
00:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it is related to general junction layout
00:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> every "merge" (meaning two (one way) lines joining up) is a possible slowdown for the trains
00:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you want to avoid unnecessary merges
00:40:10 <fryfrog> so you split first hopefully to reduce the number of trains?
00:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, let only those trains go over the merge that have to
00:40:38 <Slayerofrage> yeah as in you would have an offramp before an onramp is a good way of dscribing it
00:40:42 <fryfrog> is it literally "do a split before the merge happens" or is it more like a mantra, try to split instead of merge?
00:41:22 <fryfrog> those openttdcoop guys are hardcore :)
00:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, they are ;)
00:41:51 <Slayerofrage> well some of thier junctions are un-nescerrily big
00:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> have you actually loaded one of their games?
00:42:26 <Slayerofrage> eddi: yeah some of thier saved-game networks are fascinating to watch
00:42:47 <fryfrog> i should do that later
00:43:10 <fryfrog> are there save games somewhere in the wiki?
00:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's a game archive somewhere
00:43:22 <Roujin> check publicserver archive
00:43:47 *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
00:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> be sure to have a decent sized PC, and have NPF off ;)
00:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you like a challenge, spot the weak points in my presignalling ;) www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
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00:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> (turn around in stations is activated)
00:49:19 <fryfrog> any reason you use semaphores instead of lights?
00:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's an old shot
00:49:56 <fryfrog> i wish you could rotate or zoom in sometimes
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00:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> i use light (PBS) signals there now
00:50:05 <fryfrog> you can change the year that semaphores are used
00:50:32 <fryfrog> i lowered it to like 1950, i just found reading the lights to be easier :)
00:50:37 <fryfrog> green, red... easy :)
00:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%201.%20Jul%201981.png
00:51:34 <fryfrog> those are some long ass trains!
00:51:52 <fryfrog> so what is the coal output on those sort of mines you are pulling from?
00:51:59 <fryfrog> wait, i don't even see a coal mine
00:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> i gather the coal from several coal mines
00:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> with transfer order
00:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is also realistic ;)
00:52:41 <Slayerofrage> I always prefer through platforms for big stations, hate my freight trains slowing my passenger expresses
00:52:59 <Slayerofrage> waypoints all the way
00:53:03 <fryfrog> so how do you *start*?
00:53:13 <fryfrog> do you build a small line for profit?
00:53:18 <fryfrog> or just start out indending to go big?
00:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> wait... i have pictures...
00:54:20 <Slayerofrage> depends on what im doing fryfrog, sometimes small lines for profits is good, i avoid air networks till last though, otherwise its to easy
00:54:22 <fryfrog> do you use the grf files from coop?
00:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%204.%20Nov%201921.png <- did i upload that one?
00:54:38 <fryfrog> or do you just have some of your own that you use?
00:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, that is the DBSetXL
00:54:47 <Slayerofrage> fryfrog: theres lots of good grfs in the forum!
00:55:02 <Slayerofrage> which catenary you using eddi??
00:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%206.%20Jan%201924.png
00:57:03 <Slayerofrage> ahh thought so!! i like that one!
00:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Sep%201925.png
00:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Sep%201925.png
00:59:44 <fryfrog> So a post suggests "NARS" (I assume North American Renewel Set) but I'm not sure how to *find* it :/
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00:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> (these two pictures belong together)
01:00:06 <Slayerofrage> Eddi: like the idea of a mountain line
01:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> fryfrog: generally, grfcrawler.tt-forums.net
01:00:23 <Slayerofrage> Always been tempted to do a Mont Blanc scenario
01:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png
01:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> now those same places a few years later
01:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Aug%201948.png
01:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
01:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Apr%201977.png
01:05:43 <Slayerofrage> Intresting like the way your down and up are opposite to me!! My upline(s) are always left lol
01:05:57 <Slayerofrage> Tis the being in the uk that does it
01:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> driving on left scares me
01:06:48 <Slayerofrage> I go to euroupe quite a bit, its weird when i come back to the uk and im back on the left
01:07:49 <Slayerofrage> speaking of europe id love to see some finnish grfs and scenarios
01:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%201.%20Jul%201981#1.png <- the station that did not work with presignals works perfectly with PBS
01:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i like finished grfs also ;)
01:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, doesn't seem to like #
01:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> what's the ascii representation of that?
01:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%201.%20Jul%201981%231.png
01:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> PS: you don't speak of "up" and "down" lines in germany
01:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's something for centralistic networks
01:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> Slayerofrage: if you actually see the picture there, yes
01:13:25 <Slayerofrage> or the uk where we cant run trains on time lol
01:13:56 <Slayerofrage> i think the Uk renewal set should simulate leaves on the track, and give the train a penalty lol
01:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> rail development in germany was not very centralistic ;)
01:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> "trains on time", you only have that in japan
01:14:45 <Slayerofrage> Ive travelled the ICE, its pretty effiecent compared the Uk network
01:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> don't travel with ICEs on fridays or sundays ;)
01:16:53 <Slayerofrage> I travelled from Geneva to Weener (Ostfriesland) then Weener to hamburg on Nye, and then Hamburg to Koln, on new years day without a hitch
01:17:28 <Slayerofrage> Wheras the uk id have probably been two hours late for that distance each direction
01:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> general rule: if you can't write ö, write oe!!
01:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the only correct replacement
01:19:22 <fryfrog> So given one of those coop style main lines (LL__RR), would the two LL have splits/merges to eachother to allow faster trains to pass slower enes?
01:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> same with ä->ae and ü->ue
01:19:38 <fryfrog> (well, the two RR too, i imagine)
01:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> fryfrog: that won't work
01:19:48 <nappe1> Something mystical goes on in the graph drawing but I am unable to find it... That seems to be Rubidium's code, so I might ask from him directly whenever I can reach him... for now, I'll release patch with note that Cargo Graphs are messed up.
01:20:19 <fryfrog> so the L and the other L are mostly isolated? except at junctions?
01:20:28 <Slayerofrage> nappe from the figures you posted earlier there seems to be a x2 multiplier hidden somewhere!
01:22:20 <nappe1> Slayerofrage: there is... or more likely it's actually bug causin overflow somewhere in the code that makes the variables to draw on screen...
01:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> fryfrog: really, i suggest you watch one of the games "live"
01:22:54 <nappe1> because the values are stored correctly to memory, but the drawing code somehow doubles them.
01:23:03 <Slayerofrage> fryfrog: or download a saved game and reverse engineer the network to understand it
01:23:15 <fryfrog> yeah, i guess that'd be the smart thing to do :)
01:24:11 <Slayerofrage> Nappe: its weird that the drawing code would double them though
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01:29:16 <nappe1> Slayerofrage: yeah, I know... but still, I debugged that values were stored right and when the part that gets the string was ran, it had doubled value.
01:30:13 <nappe1> or then it's obious my own mistake in some flags, but which I can't just figure out...
01:30:36 <nappe1> anyways, it's 3:30am here, so I am off to bed. more tomorrow. :D
01:31:05 <nappe1> nevertheless, the patch works as should be, but the graphs aren't really readable. ;)
01:31:27 <nappe1> but, now some sleep...
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01:50:09 <dragonhorseboy> so what you doing now?
01:50:57 <Slayerofrage> at the minute playing carsts monster scenario
01:51:08 <Slayerofrage> Got some nice distrubution centres going on
01:51:23 <Slayerofrage> and playing with motorways and rvs lol
01:54:33 <Slayerofrage> Would be nice if trucks had a proper bay system though
01:54:41 <dragonhorseboy> me just looking through grfs and so to download/convert for my final grf folder
01:54:56 <Slayerofrage> I have that many grfs ive lost count
01:55:07 <dragonhorseboy> 30+ seriously?
01:55:14 <Slayerofrage> I have about three or four different versions of the game i play
01:55:39 <Slayerofrage> I have a couple of nightly's with different sets loaded, and 0.6 with a different set
01:56:11 <Slayerofrage> so i dont have to mess about with grfs when i start a scenario, or new game
01:56:51 <Slayerofrage> I use the DBset one a lot though
01:57:04 <Slayerofrage> and one of the nightlies is with ecs setup
01:57:59 <Slayerofrage> What grf's you using anyway dragonhorse?
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01:58:53 <dragonhorseboy> still not quite sure yet....just trying build a grf folder again (after having never played for quite some time due to other things) but...one thing for sure is I have like at least 3 nice trainsets already (1 per climate)
01:59:10 <dragonhorseboy> still deciding between dbsetxl and a few other smaller ones for temperate alone yet
02:00:50 <Slayerofrage> I also use UKRenewal is another load of the game
02:01:31 <Slayerofrage> loads of different stations, Canadianset, Brickfreight, City,
02:01:46 <Slayerofrage> Oh yeah Container harbour
02:01:51 <Slayerofrage> For some eyecandy
02:02:00 <Slayerofrage> Also newships is good
02:04:41 <Slayerofrage> With all the Uk trains, Diesals, HST 125 and new virgin trains
02:05:44 <dragonhorseboy> you know..I kinda tried ukrs before but not that sure if I really like it...doesn't seem to be much interesting choices till quite later on (like the Vossloh etc)
02:06:12 <Slayerofrage> Lots of steam train choices
02:06:23 <dragonhorseboy> the range of steam locomotives was kinda nice tho..especially sometimes even speed vs traction too
02:06:37 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage...well.. dbsetxl has a lot of electrics mixed in too so thats one
02:07:00 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage do you ever use the 2-10-0 thats present in ukrs tho?
02:07:48 <Slayerofrage> Kind of gets defunct by the deltic though
02:07:50 <dragonhorseboy> I used to a few times..you should had seen the one time I had several drag of doubleheaded 2-10-0's hehe
02:07:53 <Slayerofrage> and i love deltics lol
02:08:19 <dragonhorseboy> and the doubleheading was for a good reason too...often kept losing some speed on the few long slopes
02:08:54 <dragonhorseboy> but otherwise usually been just single (except in case of the dmu/emu's and which of I dunno why pikka couldn't let them be mixed in later version blah)
02:09:19 <Slayerofrage> I use the UK renewal set more cause i know the trains really well and can imagine where they will run too lol
02:09:28 <Slayerofrage> and it looks good to my eye
02:09:55 <Slayerofrage> espcially with some of teh UK scenarios
02:10:09 <Slayerofrage> Though i tend to use the DBSet for most things now though
02:10:15 <dragonhorseboy> well why can't I even use any individual engine with any of the early dmus tho? :p
02:10:44 <Slayerofrage> Thats the way the actual trains were built
02:10:57 <dragonhorseboy> well here's the problem...
02:11:08 <dragonhorseboy> why don't they have a fatter engine to power themself then?
02:11:28 <Slayerofrage> They had engines on both coaches connected, and Metrol cammel, bulit the dmu's as short commuter sets
02:11:55 <Slayerofrage> With the intention on running branch lines and high frequency's slow commuter lines
02:13:06 <dragonhorseboy> one time I actually had two cammell's with one coach each and guess what was leading on the head? a 2-6-4T else they would have kept kneeling on the sloped twists
02:13:18 <dragonhorseboy> silly how just a little more traction helped a lot :p
02:14:06 <Slayerofrage> The UK set is pretty realistic to actual train speeds, abiltys and timescales in the uk
02:14:30 <dragonhorseboy> otherwise if it was for real the 2-6-4T would probably had just be sitting at a helper base station as the cammell ran into the cities themself but then got banked among the twisty country
02:15:36 <Slayerofrage> The cammell would have crept along, and becuase of thier designs wouldnt have been used for high gradient lines
02:16:10 <Slayerofrage> A lot of the high lines in the uk up until the 80's were served by class 37's (EE37 in the set i think)
02:16:36 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage...so what am I even supposed to use over the hills without needing to place long platforms at the towns otherwise? hehe
02:18:09 <dragonhorseboy> anyway brb again
02:18:19 <Slayerofrage> a metrocammel would be used on low gradient commuter and metro and flatish branch lines
02:19:22 <Slayerofrage> but yeah some of the realism can get in teh way of gameplay ;)
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02:29:07 <Slayerofrage> Ive just found some really nice grfs
02:30:08 <fryfrog> keeping them to yourself? :)
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02:30:27 <Slayerofrage> bah they arnt released yet :(
02:30:48 <Slayerofrage> Theres an ikea grf being devolped
02:30:57 <Slayerofrage> i know its eyecandy
02:31:01 <fryfrog> i fired up the NARS and it was neat
02:31:10 <Slayerofrage> but i like my cities to look realistic
02:31:11 <fryfrog> it sure added a lot of new engines
02:31:26 <Slayerofrage> Try DBSetXL fryfrog
02:31:40 <fryfrog> Isn't that one EU trains?
02:31:52 <Slayerofrage> Theres also a UK set
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02:32:11 <Slayerofrage> just makes it more pleasing to the eye
02:32:33 <fryfrog> can you... load up more than 1 trains/wagons grf?
02:32:38 <fryfrog> ie, us and eu trains?
02:34:37 <Slayerofrage> As the Grf replaces the engine ids and resets speeds capacity's etc
02:34:57 <Slayerofrage> And there is only a finite number of trains you can have available
02:39:35 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r12117 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r12115): strgen compilation was broken
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03:05:39 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12118 /trunk/src/ (bridge.h newgrf.cpp table/bridge_land.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Put the two descriptions of bridges in an array instead of two single variables, following the transport type it represents
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03:12:55 <Slayerofrage> God damn it you dont make it easy to make 32pp models lol
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06:06:52 <DaCrusader> damnit only 23000 and i need a new train...
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10:57:13 <Sacro> Yesterday all servers in the U.S. went out on strike in a bid to get more RAM and better CPUs. A spokes person said that the need for better RAM was due to some fool increasing the front-side bus speed. In future, buses will be told to slow down in residential motherboards.
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11:11:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12119 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Codechange: Rename grfspec_feature to match code style, and expose in header for use elsewhere.
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12:05:50 <peter1138> lol @ one billion daleks
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12:21:07 <SmatZ> I really don't like people like him :-x
12:21:23 <SmatZ> "The thing is ... I played the original TTD on a 66Mhz 80286 processor with nothing more than a extremely primitive graphics chip on the motherboard"
12:21:30 <SmatZ> not only troll, he is even stupid
12:21:59 <SmatZ> not even that overclocked 80286 wouldn't run 32bit game TTD is
12:22:53 <Priski> he really thinks that he knows the best whats going on in the game mechanics
12:23:09 <Priski> "13:59 < Kutulainen> lapsiporno.info sensuroitu?
12:23:10 <SmatZ> yeah, and he "knows" it is all done bad
12:28:04 <Priski> accident paste from discussion on internet sencorship
12:28:36 <SmatZ> hmm lapisporno is not a porno
12:28:41 <Priski> I would NOT recomment to open any of the links if you found a long list of links
12:28:45 * SmatZ is against censorhip and everything :)
12:29:02 <Priski> it is not english, it's finnish
12:29:22 <globester> isn't lapis latin for rock?
12:29:31 <globester> which has a hard core
12:33:33 <globester> any specific reason?
12:33:51 <Priski> well been ever before in germany?
12:34:15 <globester> yes, our car broke down
12:36:51 <Priski> for reasons, germans, In my point of view, they really like have sex and it kinda shows, but yet they seem so serious all the time.
12:37:13 <keyweed_> sex is serious business
12:37:17 *** keyweed_ is now known as keyweed
12:37:28 <Priski> I one time have watched german and italian version of Who want's to be a millionare
12:37:51 <keyweed> italian tv is weird. they have a bimbo for every occasion.
12:37:52 <Priski> and it was like total opposites
12:38:33 <Priski> italian host barely stayed on the seat when he was busy talkin BS and touching contestant and laughing
12:39:28 <Priski> and german host looked like he was just had his left ball cut off at hospital.
12:40:44 <Priski> but the best TV in the world
12:40:50 <Priski> it has to be japanese shows
12:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> where people get put dangerous animals put on their head and have to gues what it is?
12:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> or "human tetris" ;)
12:42:29 <Priski> I like those games that downtown dudes are doing now
12:42:37 <Priski> do not laugh at hospital etc
12:44:15 <Priski> if you laugh even a little you get punished, and dear god they have funny shit on those places that just meant to get them laugh
12:45:02 <Priski> it's like big brother torture show in a very original way
12:48:12 <Priski> on one part on "do not laugh at school" I almost dropped out of my seat when they introduced their ne Gymnastic theacher, same fellow, Hard Gay
12:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never heard of that show...
12:50:41 <Priski> subtitled also some parts of that is missing somewhere in between, since its total over 60min or something
12:55:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12121 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix [FS#1764]: Drop down item indexes are now an int instead of a byte (Yexo)
12:56:33 <SmatZ> it is very unlikely that 0.6.0 will be r12345
12:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not even prime
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13:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was no 10000
13:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> @openttd commit 9999
13:09:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by rubidium :: r9999 /trunk (12 files in 5 dirs) (2007-05-31 15:15:00 UTC)
13:09:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: -Feature: make it possible to disallow busses and lorries to go a specific way on straight pieces of road.
13:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> @openttd commit 10001
13:10:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by belugas :: r10001 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2007-05-31 15:40:36 UTC)
13:10:05 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: -Codechange: Add support for removing dynamically allocated newgrf data
13:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> @openttd commit 10000
13:10:13 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by rubidium :: r10000 mapgen/README (2007-05-31 15:16:44 UTC)
13:10:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: -Fix: the readme did not explain how to install the wonderfull ``world'' needed for mapgen.
13:17:09 <nzvip> Is this not legal in C?
13:17:20 <nzvip> For some reason gcc does not like when I do that.
13:17:34 <nzvip> Here's the message: pqueue.c:39: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
13:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> smells like an error in a totally different place
13:19:09 <nzvip> I also get a lot of these warnings:
13:19:09 <nzvip> pqueue.c:17: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
13:19:39 <nzvip> n = pnode_t*; pq->first = pnode_t*;
13:19:47 <nzvip> So I cannot see what is wrong with it.
13:24:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12122 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add framework for generic feature callbacks, along with some parts for AI use.
13:26:27 <SmatZ> nzvip: are next, prev pointers?
13:26:46 <nzvip> It is a doubly linked list.
13:26:53 <nzvip> Simple stuff - or so I thought.
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13:40:24 <SmatZ> pnode_t* n = malloc(sizeof(pnode_t));
13:40:37 <SmatZ> can't this be the problem? malloc returns void*
13:40:44 <SmatZ> but maybe it is valid in C
13:41:43 <SmatZ> ok, it is valid in C :-)
13:41:50 <peter1138> your struct definitions are invalid
13:42:09 <peter1138> the struct is called pnode not pnode_t
13:42:24 <peter1138> the typedef is called pnode_t
13:42:31 <nzvip> I thought the name afterwards was the name.
13:43:11 <nzvip> :o peter1138 was right.
13:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> what's the use of a typedef anyway?
13:44:22 <peter1138> minor. means you don't need to reference it by struct foo everywhere
13:44:44 <HMage> and, you can have a name that some editors might recognize that it's a type
13:44:56 <HMage> emacs, for example, highlights every type that ends with _t
13:45:23 <nzvip> What is the switch for debug in gcc?
13:49:16 <HMage> but I admit I use it from time to time
13:49:46 <peter1138> vim doesn't understand general _t :(
13:50:03 <peter1138> one day i'll figure out how to get it to highlight ottd's types...
13:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> rewrite openttd in python, then you don't need to care about types anymore ;)
13:51:33 <HMage> then create a perl wrapper around python to cater about people that use perl :D
13:51:44 <peter1138> then a C wrapper around that...
13:51:46 <HMage> then create an API for C language
13:51:59 <HMage> and a C+ wrapper for C API
13:52:15 <glx> extern C { ... } <-- done
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14:16:28 <dragonhorseboy> anyone got oat and/or grain for me to eat then? :p
14:16:41 <dragonhorseboy> either way how're you peter?
14:17:38 * dragonhorseboy pokes slayerofrage for no reason ;)
14:18:42 * Slayerofrage attacks dragonhorseboy with random movie quotes
14:21:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12123 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Add: generate.vbs script to allow project files generation for users unable to run generate bash script
14:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure wether the users randomly spamming around or the vbs is more scary yet ;)
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14:35:29 * dragonhorseboy whacks slayerofrage with "who the b***h are you?" from movie :p
14:39:32 * Slayerofrage slaps dragon horseboy with some 0xdeadbeef
14:39:40 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage hehehehehehhe
14:41:05 <dragonhorseboy> so what you doing now?
14:43:20 <Slayerofrage> Trying to export some Maya prototypes to blender so i can work on some 32bpp sets
14:43:51 <Slayerofrage> tis a pain in the arse cos a lot of my maya stuff is for MSTS, and animation i have done
14:44:08 <Slayerofrage> and trying to convert into ottd lighting views, palletes is a pain :(
14:48:57 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage good luck with that ;)
14:49:30 <dragonhorseboy> <is looking for more grfs aside to trying to redraw the pcx (from the ttd base grfs especially tr1gr.grf too)
14:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> V100 in blue looks weird...
14:51:37 <dragonhorseboy> V100? is that the diesel shunter or that mainline hydraulic-driven with V shaped exhausts?
14:51:44 <dragonhorseboy> <never could quite remember german classes sometimes
14:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> V100 is a side line diesel
14:52:53 <dragonhorseboy> what was that one with the hydrualic transmission and V-shaped exhaust then?
14:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> V stands for "Verbrennungsmotor"
14:53:08 <dragonhorseboy> I know it was dual cabs and painted both red then blue
14:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> 100 is roughly 1/10 of the power
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14:54:38 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...heh wait... I did a dumb search for 'german hydraulic rail diesel' and what I was thinking of was V200
14:55:16 <dragonhorseboy> I remember seeing some photos of these being in the blue paint for a while tho
14:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> well... they were kinda before my time...
14:58:03 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...mine too, I don't know why DB (or was it DR or was that even both? meh there you go) bothered painting several things blue instead of the typical red for some time
14:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was DB... DR did not change liveries very often...
14:58:44 <dragonhorseboy> at least the BR101 (or was that 110? ughh anyone mind helping here???) was left in a nice yellow+red stripped paintjob together with coaches to match
14:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> 103 you are thinking of
14:59:16 <dragonhorseboy> you see how I'm not so good at remembering most german classes :p
14:59:36 <dragonhorseboy> at least there is one named class I do always remember tho due to their unusual look...
14:59:50 <dragonhorseboy> Kof and Kof II .... little low thinge shunting cars around
15:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> 103 is likely the most famous engine of all
15:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> sure it wasn't Köf?
15:00:52 <yorick> is there anyone that wants the regional_yapf_for_ships.patch updated?
15:01:26 <dragonhorseboy> eddi....don't bother asking...I have enough trouble typing special characters at times here :p
15:01:38 <dragonhorseboy> especially for the 'a' in marklin too
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15:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i said... if you don't have ö, write oe
15:02:13 <dragonhorseboy> fair enough ^_^
15:03:06 <dragonhorseboy> but anyhow...the reason I like these little things is because well they seem to be the smallest [standard gauge] near-mainline working engine I've ever known of
15:03:20 <dragonhorseboy> smaller than the GE 44 tonners in usa even
15:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, they were that small to load them on a wagon to move them from one station to another
15:04:01 <dragonhorseboy> oh hmm never knew that one
15:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> with 40km/h, they would block the line too long driving on its own
15:05:34 <dragonhorseboy> GE also made these to skirt an early steam>diesel era requirement that you needed a crew of two above certain locomotive weight (alak these little things could be driven with only the engineer and conductor alone with no issue)
15:06:48 <dragonhorseboy> hmm say that reminds me...
15:07:39 <dragonhorseboy> (yeah they're 6 axles)
15:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would they need that huge engines when they only carry that few cars?
15:08:57 <dragonhorseboy> Alco PA+PB units...and early on it wasn't unusual for sets to only have a single numbering to make them appear as only one locomotive alak only one crew needed (again the transition era was weird, don't ask me)
15:09:24 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...Rio Grande was a "through the mountains, not around them" railroad in middle of Colorado and well you can imagine
15:09:53 <dragonhorseboy> otherwise yeah it could have had been only two units in flatter country
15:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> then why not go electric?
15:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't understand american railways...
15:12:31 <dragonhorseboy> electric? I think it would be due to the cost and not wanting to have to do engine swaps
15:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> mountain routes were the main reason to introduce electric in germany
15:13:32 <dragonhorseboy> but there is one thing tho... one coal slugger line did electrific a particular line because of a harsh grade with tunnel in middle ... but whats interesting and unique to them was that when they finally did a line relocation that was less serve the electrics were retired for yet a batch order of more steam (rather than diesel)
15:14:47 <dragonhorseboy> eddi yeah I have to agree with you there...but there is one short copper railroad that went all-electrified from the start for economy reason
15:15:24 <dragonhorseboy> started 1913 and retired to diesels in '67 (thats 54 years on the old boxcabs!)
15:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> by WWII, pretty much 100% of the swiss railway network was electrified
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15:18:35 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...Sweden kept some steam in storage due to concern about a powergrid sabotage effectively halting all electric locomotives but eventually the cold war ended in '89 and one of them ended up in canada [actually only a few km from where I'm living ha] on a short popular tourist line
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15:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> russia kept a big stash of (german conquered) steam engines for the european standard gauge in poland
15:21:15 <dragonhorseboy> eddi ... I never did really understood why electrification wasn't more spreadwide in north america but at least you can count on the east usa corridor service being a healthy mix of amtrak electrics
15:21:46 <dragonhorseboy> or if you were to go back to before amtrak (probably best in 30-50's) you'll find a lot of variety in electrics not to mention our infamous GG1 units
15:22:57 <Gonozal_VIII> "our"? you're from america and write english like that?
15:23:13 <Gonozal_VIII> (sorry... but strange)
15:23:32 <dragonhorseboy> gonozal...well excuse me..sometimes I don't always pick good words ok? :p
15:23:53 <dragonhorseboy> hylje...thats -diesel- ;)
15:24:06 <dragonhorseboy> this is ELECTRIC!
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15:25:37 <dragonhorseboy> eddi hmm I just had to ask but did german have any kind of special mail trains before and/or now?
15:26:31 <Gonozal_VIII> mail is mostly transported by lkw here (austria)
15:26:42 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
15:26:47 * dragonhorseboy sides with hylje (yeah whats that?)
15:27:07 <frosch123> lkw = "lastkraftwagen" = truck
15:27:28 <Gonozal_VIII> oh sorry, forgot that that's german^^
15:28:13 <Gonozal_VIII> road vehicles... trucks.. rubber wheel thingies^^
15:28:26 <saati> why do an electric train have a steam boiler?
15:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> dragonhorseboy: usually, passenger trains carried an extra mail wagon
15:28:57 <dragonhorseboy> well in north america mail got moved by train quite often for till up to like 60-70's somewhere where the postal office decided that there was no point in it anymore and so the few remaining large mail trains ended their life the next day and that was it for good
15:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> until the DB stopped all mail traffic on rails
15:29:26 <dragonhorseboy> wasn't too rare that sometimes you would have one solid mail train then following it was an extra section with yet solid mails ... sure was lot of mails back then
15:29:26 <Slayerofrage> happened in the uk too
15:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> they did that in the 1990s
15:29:55 <Slayerofrage> I remember when Royal mail used to have EMU, night sorting trains
15:30:11 <Slayerofrage> but they stopped in the late 90's
15:30:20 <dragonhorseboy> saati...frequently you would get new locomotives but still be reusing old consists and so hence thats why many early diesel and electrics had to come with steam boiler to handle heating the train till newer consists finally could be ordered re electric heating via HEP instead
15:31:07 <dragonhorseboy> HeadEndPower heh
15:31:16 <dragonhorseboy> meaning electric from the locomotive themself
15:31:35 <dragonhorseboy> (or in case of electrics...one car could have its own pantograph instead)
15:31:37 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i said :-)
15:31:45 <Gonozal_VIII> well... bjarni did
15:31:56 <dragonhorseboy> someone care to explain to saati? ^^^
15:32:07 <Gonozal_VIII> never heard that word
15:32:21 <saati> it's something that creates heat from electricity
15:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> in germany, some wagons carried their own electric generator
15:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> to power the heating, when the engine didn't have electric heating
15:32:45 <saati> i think they still have
15:32:45 <Gonozal_VIII> graph indicates that it's something that writes...
15:32:45 <dragonhorseboy> gonozal...must be different countries use different word for the same thing...
15:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> the generators were driven by the wheels
15:33:21 <dragonhorseboy> gonozal..what do -you- call the metal arms thats used to collect electric from the overhead wires? ;)
15:33:56 <Gonozal_VIII> well i call it stromabnehmer
15:34:37 <Gonozal_VIII> metal and carbon
15:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> in common language, they are often called "Bügel"
15:35:17 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm near a factory that produces the carbon part
15:35:56 <dragonhorseboy> hm well eddi you ever heard of steam+diesel (or steam+electric even) combo power being used on certain trains or not really?
15:35:59 * dragonhorseboy is just asking
15:36:33 <Gonozal_VIII> only diesel electric...
15:36:46 <Gonozal_VIII> most common form of diesel engines
15:37:53 <Slayerofrage> dragonboy: there were some steam diesal prototypes by LNER in the 1920's!!
15:38:26 <Gonozal_VIII> why steam diesel? what's the point?
15:38:42 <dragonhorseboy> heh well..sometimes steam was the helpers on otherwise diesel express trains in some grades-heavy areas before
15:39:01 <Slayerofrage> Gonozal: diesal back then was an unporven tech
15:39:13 <Slayerofrage> So lots of different experiments were done with it
15:39:21 <dragonhorseboy> and I think I've actually heard once of a dead GG1 being hauled by one of santa fe's best steam even straight into the chicago terminal too
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15:41:17 <dragonhorseboy> either way brb to sort grfs
15:41:51 <nzvip> Is it possible in anyway to increment a void pointer?
15:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, a lot of steam engines were refitted to be powered by oil instead of coal
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15:43:13 <Slayerofrage> aye nothing as majestic as some of those old steam engines though
15:43:25 <Slayerofrage> well the Deltic's were impressive
15:43:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:43:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12124 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp):
15:43:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move newgrf-variables that are common to VarAction2 and Action7/9/D to their own function.
15:43:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Add some variables that were missing in one or both cases.
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15:45:24 <Yorick> - /* TODO: usrerror() for errors which are not of an internal nature but caused by the user, i.e. missing files or fatal configuration errors. Post-0.4.0 since Celestar doesn't want this in SVN before. --pasky */
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15:49:56 <nzvip> What do I do instead then, Belugas?
15:54:01 <Belugas> whatever you want nzvip. I've shown you the result of a quick search I did for you regarding incrementing void pointer
15:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> in what possible scenario would you want to modify void pointers?
15:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean, cast to something sensible before doing any operations
15:56:09 <dragonhorseboy> (ignore the dialogs :p )
15:56:24 <Gonozal_VIII> terribly slow opening
15:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> btw, how do you find the "coincidental" similarities between east german and west german engines?
15:58:15 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe even same name
15:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, the naming scheme was probably an earlier invention...
15:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> power (in hp) / 10
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16:01:00 <Gonozal_VIII> the map is generated with the old map generator, not tgp
16:01:06 <DaleStan> <nzvip> Is it possible in anyway to increment a void pointer? <-- No. Given foo *bar;, and assuming appropriate widths (sizeof(int) == sizeof(foo*)) bar++; is the equivalent of bar=(foo*)(((int)bar) + sizeof(foo));. sizeof(void) is undef, therefore the operation of incrementing a void pointer is also undef.
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16:01:27 <nzvip> I have a function pointer.
16:03:17 <dragonhorseboy> gonozal hmm so you saying some older openttd had their own landscape tiles rather than using ttdp's?
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16:05:11 <DaleStan> Never never never modify a function pointer. Unless you're working in assembly, you're entirely too likely to end up with a pointer into the middle of an instruction. That works rather poorly on a good day.
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16:05:40 <Gonozal_VIII> no, not the terrain sprites, the shape of that hill with the tunnel is typical for the old map generator
16:08:47 <dragonhorseboy> I've never bothered with that newer mode in openttd as it seem to bog down into sometimes even freezing up so .. meh ^_^
16:09:02 <Gonozal_VIII> now because of your question i wasn't fast enough to answer the 1000th "i'm using transfer and don't get any money" post
16:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> the system is very easy, the bigger the number, the bigger the engine ;)
16:10:46 <dragonhorseboy> eddi hehe...are the V160 and V200 just the same hydraulic w/V exhaust?
16:10:56 <dragonhorseboy> never heard of a V160 before but it looks like same body shortened
16:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> both are in the DBSetXL
16:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it is basically a smaller version of the V200
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16:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> of the V320 only one engine was built
16:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was desinged for cargo traffic on unelectified main lines, but the DB plan was to electrify exactly those lines ;)
16:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> basically, the V320 is two V160 glued together
16:18:51 <dragonhorseboy> there was one particular uk diesel shunter I like...barely by the time they were being purchased the breching axe was already underway and so you can imagine that that was a hard short life....let me see if I can recall the class
16:32:49 <Yorick> the new shore tiles seem to be flooding to above, when they can
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16:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> but with all the similarities of the smaller engines, you wonder why these two are so different:
16:46:05 <dragonhorseboy> hm..almost done with grfs hopefully
16:46:11 <dragonhorseboy> unless something stupid errors out :p
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17:28:04 <dragonhorseboy> doing okay...bit too long day of stupid grfs and forum threads tho hehehe
17:28:10 <dragonhorseboy> taking break now already
17:28:39 <Phantasm> Is it intentional that scrolling speed is affected by fast forward?
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17:47:34 <UnderBuilder> how can I play simcity and openttd in the same game?
17:48:42 <UnderBuilder> I mean, building cities and a transport company simultaneously
17:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> openttd &; sc2000 &?
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17:54:00 <nappe1afk> Gonozal_VIII: hey... :)
17:54:35 <nappe1afk> Gonozal_VIII: I have that patch ready, and it works but the payment rates graphs have something seriously wrong...
17:54:55 <nappe1afk> Gonozal_VIII: lol, I have not checked... hold on... :)
17:55:45 <Gonozal_VIII> max factor changed to 255 and >30 it displays the time in the status bar :-)
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17:57:20 <Gonozal_VIII> what's that guru?
17:57:37 <guru3> a random php script that generates terrain of... some variety
17:57:50 <nappe1afk> Gonozal_VIII: nice. :) If it's the one posted in thread, I used that as basis for my mods. :)
17:58:08 <Gonozal_VIII> no i didn't post that anywhere
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17:59:16 <nappe1afk> well, I need to figure out what's wrong with the Cargo Payment Rates graph... it does not scale y-axis right somehow...
17:59:34 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea about that graph
17:59:47 <nappe1afk> otherwise I can send you the patch if you like to merge it... :)
18:00:16 *** nappe1afk is now known as nappe1
18:01:11 <Gonozal_VIII> the height differences are not openttdish
18:04:24 <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: I think I just made a bit progress with the graph problem... I'll look into it a bit.
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18:07:13 <peter1138> You may celebrate, for I am back.
18:07:46 <Gonozal_VIII> why would that be a reason for celebration?
18:08:55 <peter1138> Well the kettle has just boiled.
18:09:19 <Belugas> and the kittne has been spoiled
18:09:41 <Gonozal_VIII> boiling cattle? that's animal cruelty!
18:10:08 <Phantasm> Belugas: Is it intentional that scrolling speed is affected by fast forward?
18:10:21 <peter1138> Fast forward affects everything.
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18:12:57 * LordAzamath doesn't nod, but agrees to atleast seem smart
18:13:46 <Gonozal_VIII> that could be changed...
18:14:14 <Gonozal_VIII> for that stuff that normaly happens every tick but shouldn't on ff...
18:16:04 <Gonozal_VIII> add a counter, increase it by ms passed since last tick and only do that stuff if it's >30 then do % 30
18:17:41 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, it could, but the main game loop is actually in each video driver...
18:18:58 <Gonozal_VIII> don't quite understand that
18:19:22 <peter1138> The main game loop is in each video driver.
18:19:41 <peter1138> So to change that you need to change each video driver...
18:19:59 <peter1138> Not a hard job, just something of note, heh
18:22:39 <Gonozal_VIII> in the beginning of the tick loop, ms are added to foo, every one of those functions starts with if(foo >= 30) { and in the end of the tick loop foo is moduloed with 30... shouldn't be too hard i think...
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18:35:17 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, lol, fast forward is funning :D
18:35:52 <peter1138> I told it to do all gui updates only every 3oms
18:36:10 <peter1138> so 1) fast-forwarding doesn't increase the frame-rate
18:36:21 <peter1138> and 2) there is even more spare time to run it faster
18:36:45 <peter1138> so my debug build on my old slow pc now runs an average game fast...
18:36:47 <Gonozal_VIII> [19:27:59] Guest1295: all the graphical stuff could have that... would make ff a lot faster
18:36:47 <Gonozal_VIII> [19:28:30] *** You have been disconnected.
18:37:04 <peter1138> yeah, but i actually did it
18:37:25 <Gonozal_VIII> ah, not now, earlier?
18:37:48 <peter1138> for only the SDL driver, though
18:38:29 <peter1138> there must be ways of doing more optimisation though
18:38:49 <peter1138> one problem is there could be so many tile updates between gui ticks that it forces a full screen refresh
18:38:58 <Gonozal_VIII> everything that reacts on key press...
18:39:18 <Belugas> dalek, leave peter1138's mind, will you?
18:39:18 <nappe1> peter1138: I have problem with graphs... the cargo payment rates graph does not scale the y-axis correctly somehow...
18:41:01 <nappe1> peter1138: well, I did my own method to economy.cpp which returns scaled cargo payment rate (acording to daylength multiplier) if such option is selected from patches.
18:41:39 <nappe1> I added that cuntion to everywhere where cargo_payment_rates[] is used and it is working in game.
18:42:06 <nappe1> but in graphs, only curves are scaled, not the y-axis labels.
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18:43:31 <nappe1> I did debug it and the code founds correctly max value and setups it with DParam, but then something weird happens when the label is rendered, as it always gets valua as it would be time running 1x
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18:44:37 <peter1138> The Y-axis is dynamic... hmm...
18:44:40 <nappe1> that is happening at graph_gui.cpp lines 169-176
18:45:48 <nappe1> peter1138: i can send you patch where is my changes, but I have not changed stuff at graph_gui.cpp as it seems that it should be working fine from code point of view.
18:48:02 <peter1138> an overflow, possibly?
18:48:57 <nappe1> I thought that too, so I went thru all my code and changed all variables to use Money as type... at least that did not change anything...
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18:51:14 <nappe1> peter1138: I also tried (line 171) changing "DParam(1, y_label);" to "DParam(1, (y_label*2));" which resulted y*axis to double again.
18:51:47 <peter1138> are your values actually doubled?
18:52:10 <nappe1> peter1138: on y-axis scale, yes.
18:52:33 <nappe1> peter1138: but that only ment that now they were 4 times bigger than they should been.. :D
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18:59:37 <nappe1> peter1138: I have been trying to close all possibilities it being my own mistake, but as I do stuff with 3 different languages on each day (VB.NET and C# at work, C++/C as this on my free time) so it can be also my code...
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19:06:51 <nappe1> I think I just isolated it to my own code. :D
19:07:21 <nappe1> but it needs a bit more investigating...
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19:09:59 <Belugas> don't laugh, Slayerofrage. it takes a lot of courage for someone to find and admit his own errors
19:10:46 <nappe1> Belugas: not to me... :) I am part of demo scene and as you know demo scene's purpose is make quality crap. ;)
19:11:10 <nappe1> Belugas: but yes, I do know ppl that are too sensitive to be coders. ;)
19:11:56 <Slayerofrage> nah im not laughing at nappe, it takes a lot of work to code, and a lot more to debug lol
19:12:14 <Belugas> debugging is so.. frustrating
19:12:21 <Slayerofrage> damn straight it is
19:12:27 <yorick> coding isn't so much work, (for me), debugging...yes
19:12:41 <nappe1> peter1138: however, there is something interesting going on with those labels, as biggest y_label value is 208 and graph says 416. :D nevertheless the graphs still look fine, so if there's something wrong then there's two bugs. :D
19:12:41 <Belugas> but when you find out the reason, and yo fix it... damn... the day is brigher :D
19:12:58 <Slayerofrage> especially when you spend most of your day working with crappy .net eww
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19:14:37 <nappe1> Belugas: especially debuging is pain in the donkey when your code is not working and you debug it again and again and again, just to notice eight hours later that your work mate's adapter class is the problem, not your code. ;)
19:15:36 <yorick> I've been busy with debugging the wrong source yesterday
19:16:02 <yorick> I was debugging 0.6.0beta3 with a patch instead of trunk
19:16:11 <Belugas> nappe1, and what's even worse? The day is over and you still debug, but for otttd :D
19:16:26 <Belugas> kind of been sadistic lol
19:17:18 <yorick> means I've been downgrading yapp and pax destinations for beta3 before I found out
19:18:16 <nappe1> yorick: well I was at work until 22:30 yesterday to fix one thingy... I got that fixed and tested as company policies say... well, came home and launched VC++ to just debug more code that is not mine which I decided to end at 3:30... at 9:00 this morning phone rangs and guys calls me that the thingy I tested to be working yesterday evening is borked... the words I said to that guy weren't really something you could print in project end report. ;
19:19:44 <Slayerofrage> lol id bet those words would make a great quote though
19:19:44 <nappe1> Belugas: sadistic? maybe... Addicted? maybe yes... Stupid? definetely. :D
19:21:47 <nappe1> I think it went something like this: "How the Hell you already got that picture adapter fucked up? How on earth you were able to do that in hour, while it took 3 to code and test it! you fuckin' morons don't touch it anymore until I am back to office..."
19:21:52 <Belugas> insane, in a word ehehe
19:23:34 <nappe1> and I don't usually curse that much, but awake like that... well that changes behavior a bit. ;)
19:23:55 <Slayerofrage> bet ya get a nice cup of coffee for that one
19:23:59 * Belugas noticed that nappe1 has about the same kind of relationship whit his colleagues
19:24:52 * Belugas is known for having a very bad temper
19:24:56 * nappe1 does his adapter classes in VB.NET just because everyone else does not understand it (aka. are C# guys) so it usually keeps them out changing my stuff. ;)
19:25:24 <Slayerofrage> thats all we use at my place
19:27:05 <nappe1> VB.NET is actually suprisingly good. it really gave a new life to Basic. again, C# should have never been called C... there's waaaayy too big differences. (like parameter passing as reference and no need of memory clean up.)
19:27:18 <Belugas> that's a danger, nappe1. I've done that too, and now, the said project has become one of the conerstone of the company. maening, i'm on the front line almost everyday
19:28:04 <Slayerofrage> belugas: never a good place to be
19:28:15 <Forked> or you could call it "job security"
19:30:08 <Belugas> anyway, payment processing might be a bitch, it is nonetheless a cool job to do
19:30:13 <nappe1> Belugas: well, the fact is that there's only 3 of us and one comes with Java, so C# is natural choice to him, while other one comes from Basic, so he likes to do it, but unfortunately he does VB.NET as it would be QBasic... which is like trying to do Delphi with good old Pascal. so, basically this other basic guy can do some of the things, but design and planning are out of his limits.
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19:41:58 <nappe1> peter1138: ah... I found the problem... it's definetely my problem. :)
19:44:04 * HMage codes in C even in these days :)
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19:45:01 <nappe1> HMage: it's not with language you use, but how you use it. :)
19:45:33 <Gonozal_VIII> objects are cool
19:46:59 <murray> but classes are the *definition* of cool
19:47:17 <nappe1> I code or I have been coding with C, C++, C#, Java(little), VB, Basic, VB.NET, Pascal, Delphi, Coldfusion, PHP, Perl and Assembler. (also Poveray if you can count it's definition language as one...)
19:47:20 <Gonozal_VIII> it's hard to have objects without classes^^
19:47:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i can only do java...
19:48:55 <Gonozal_VIII> so when it comes to memory stuff and typemagic in the openttd code i'm lost
19:50:24 <HMage> regarding objects -- dunno, with 10 years of exposure to C++ I still prefer C. C++ has the only advantage of having functions inside structs. That eases stuff a little.
19:51:33 <HMage> I know I said something funny for you, OOP-oriented guys :)
19:51:43 <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: it works now... :) BUT...
19:51:59 <Gonozal_VIII> there's always the but^^
19:52:43 <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: day length multiplier at 16, there's no use of transporting passenger longer than 180 days... :D you get zero income from them :D
19:53:17 <nappe1> to be honest, I don't see that bad turn at all.. :)
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19:53:43 <nappe1> [12022008 21:52] <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: day length multiplier at 16, there's no use of transporting passenger longer than 180 days... :D you get zero income from them :D
19:53:43 <nappe1> [12022008 21:53] <nappe1> to be honest, I don't see that bad turn at all.. :)
19:53:50 <Gonozal_VIII> why would you transport passengers >180 days on daylength 16?
19:54:07 <Gonozal_VIII> they could walk faster on their own^^
19:54:23 <nappe1> Everyone here, hand up if you would like to travel in train more than 6 months a straight. :D
19:54:35 <Gonozal_VIII> no need to copy... disconnecting all the time, logs open all teh time...
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19:55:47 <Gonozal_VIII> makes sense that stuff expires and you don't get anything for it then
19:56:20 <Gonozal_VIII> especially with passengers^^
19:56:37 <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: I'll clean up the code and send the .patch file via forum private messaging later on... now I have to horry to meet one friend. (for those who are old enough: we are about to fix my Commodore 1581 3.5" disk drive. ;) )
19:57:01 <Gonozal_VIII> <-- not old enough
19:57:25 <nappe1> peter1138: still around? I have quick fix for that cargo payment rates scaling...
19:57:56 <mcbane2> commodore 1581? i know c64
19:58:07 <peter1138> nappe1, thought it was your code? :p
19:59:11 <nappe1> peter1138: it was, sort of... :)
20:00:31 <Wolf01> mmm i updated the ECS industries, the coalmine don't produces anything and constantly popups a blank newspaper ò_O
20:01:16 <Gonozal_VIII> there is no new version?
20:02:11 <nappe1> peter1138: graph_gui.cpp at line 133. That causes that 416 get always as max value. (because window x_axis_offset * 2 is always the highest_value :) )
20:02:25 <glx> Wolf01: don't upgrade ECS in running games
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20:03:04 <nappe1> peter1138: replace that with highest_value=0; and the graph scales nicely every time.
20:03:29 <Wolf01> mmmh, i can't revert to the old ones
20:03:55 <nappe1> but now I am offline an hour or so...
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20:04:49 <peter1138> nappe1afk, so your cargo payment rates are *less* than normal?
20:05:30 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm no wait, makes no sense^^
20:05:35 <nappe1afk> peter1138: yes. because trains are moving basically twice of the distance per day.
20:06:13 <nappe1afk> peter1138: and factories are outputting twice amount of production in month
20:06:33 <Gonozal_VIII> now you broke my thinky thing!
20:06:46 <nappe1afk> peter1138: what used to be 2 days, is now one day :)
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20:07:53 <Slayerofrage> Its the space time continium issue lol
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20:21:27 <dragonhorseboy> slayerofrage you mean time paradox? :P
20:22:47 <dragonhorseboy> hehe no hard feeling ok? ;)
20:23:11 <Slayerofrage> im trying to nail a really hard solo so its a space time continium issue at the min :(
20:24:27 <Slayerofrage> guitar solo, but han solo is amusing lol
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20:34:31 <Sacro> trying to nail han solo?
20:35:18 <dragonhorseboy> I'll prefer to leave han solo alone knowing who he is ;)
20:35:58 <Prof_Frink> ...as if "Han Solo" wasn't euphemistic enough already
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21:08:44 <dragonhorseboy> be back later :p
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21:19:40 <Belugas> so... moving lyrics :D
21:20:03 <Prof_Frink> One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!
21:20:49 <Belugas> Pink Anderson or Floyd Council?
21:21:05 <Prof_Frink> gold star for Belugas
21:22:54 * Belugas wants a slide guitar :S
21:24:18 <Axamentia> Prof: Wiki will always agree.. if you dont like it, edit it that way lol
21:24:47 <Axamentia> Belugas, as in a bottleneck slide?
21:25:19 <Belugas> bottleneck plus that special guitar on 4 legs
21:25:28 <Belugas> i guess it's called a pedal guitar not sure
21:27:25 <Belugas> it is in fact the guitar David Gilmour uses in One of These Days during the solo
21:27:37 <Belugas> man does it sounds good
21:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could buy an air guitar off ebay!
21:28:03 <Belugas> really hard to tune :P
21:28:42 <Axamentia> I want a chapman stick, 12 string tapping guitar :0
21:29:56 <Axamentia> Its sick tapping across 12 strings
21:30:05 <Belugas> hoho... is it on topic or off topic youtube link???
21:30:19 <Axamentia> on topic of the conversation
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22:05:37 <peter1138> that seems fairly pointless :)
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22:43:01 <Phantasm> What significant updates are there in current nighty build compared to 0.6.0-beta3?
22:46:55 <Prof_Frink> Standard response #7: See the changelog
22:47:02 <Phantasm> I'm too lazy to read over whole list of insignificant changes.. What I could use is a short listing of only the significant changes.
22:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> svn log | grep Feature
22:47:24 <Prof_Frink> grep the changelog for ^Feature thern
22:47:34 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Great minds...
22:48:09 <Phantasm> Where can the svn log be found?
22:48:46 <Prof_Frink> by the `svn log` command
22:49:27 <Phantasm> I don't have svn, so would be hard to use such command.
22:50:14 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinkpad:~/src/openttd/trunk$ svn log|grep Feature|wc -l
22:50:36 <Phantasm> Copy & paste it to pastebin for me to read? ;P
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23:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> there is also git.openttd.org
23:41:28 <Phantasm> Is there any way to make some key, like x, to cycle between 2 different saveable transparency settings?
23:41:56 <Phantasm> The current on/off for all without any custimization is very bad.
23:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can ctrl+click to lock the setting for some groups, and ctrl+number for toggling individual groups
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continue to next day ⏵
