IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-01-07
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00:00:08 <_Ben_> cheers for the help anyway guys
00:00:27 <DeGhost> i saw going to russia
00:01:11 <Gonozal_VIII> who else doesn't go to russia?
00:01:45 <Gonozal_VIII> let's make a poll
00:02:59 <Bjarni> which of the following countries aren't you going to visit within the next 6 months (multiple selections allowed)
00:03:35 <DeGhost> lol i was gonna say toylany
00:04:14 <Bjarni> personally I'm not going to visit Earth
00:04:20 <Gonozal_VIII> earth? nooo that's an awfully ugly place
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00:06:08 <Bjarni> err.... one place you shouldn't visit is bash.org
00:06:09 <Bjarni> <myles> i wonder if i talk to my marijuana it will make it grow faster
00:06:20 <Bjarni> you could end up being like myles
00:06:30 <Bjarni> and then be perm banned in here
00:06:48 <Gonozal_VIII> it will... because plants like co2
00:07:12 <Roujin> so you tried talking to your marijuana, gonozal? ;)
00:07:13 <Bjarni> I don't think he realised it that way
00:07:57 <Bjarni> well... the last person to show pictures of his weed production (and claiming that it was ok) ended up getting banned
00:07:59 <Wolf01> Roujin, do you read the suggestion i wrote in the forum about the terraform patch?
00:08:09 * Bjarni wonders if he is still banned
00:08:41 <Bjarni> at least I banned somebody who is still banned
00:09:01 <Bjarni> the banlist should be able to take notes so you could remember the banning reason
00:09:39 <vispillo> hm. this may be a stupid question - but somehow i'm not receiving any income from my trains in openttd (v. 0.5.3). they're running as they should and i can see the revenue they generate when they reach a station, but it never shows up in the bank account or the income statement
00:09:54 <vispillo> (or am i just missing something really obvious?)
00:10:13 <Bjarni> don't use transfer on the final destination
00:10:23 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, people keep doing that
00:10:35 <vispillo> hmhm. ok, i'll double check. thanks
00:10:37 <Wolf01> that feature should be banned until fully functional
00:10:48 <Gonozal_VIII> it is fully functional
00:11:17 <Wolf01> it's not, because to be fully functional it needs cargo destination
00:11:17 <Bjarni> that feature should be disabled until it's usable and people understand how to use it
00:11:35 <Bjarni> with cargo destinations you will not need it
00:11:44 <Gonozal_VIII> how should people learn how it works if it's not there?
00:12:05 <Gonozal_VIII> and what's not usable with it?
00:12:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i use it a lot without problems
00:12:42 <Wolf01> the only thing i understood about it is: A(load)->B1(transfer and leave empty):B2(load)->C
00:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> transfer is great, when you know how to use it
00:12:50 <Bjarni> not crashing unstable but it can produce weird results in the game
00:13:12 <Gonozal_VIII> you can produce weird results with almost anything
00:13:20 <Gonozal_VIII> you just have to use it the right way
00:13:52 <Bjarni> transfer is good for moving cargo between road and rail like from a forest in a location swallowed by a town so the train station can't get close enough
00:14:18 <Gonozal_VIII> yes... and you want to disable it? baa
00:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> i use transfer to get a small cycle at the origin, to get good ratings, and then load everything into bigger trains to get to the target
00:14:47 <Gonozal_VIII> or small feeder trains to a large long train
00:15:05 <Roujin> Wolf01: i am currently switching between coding, forums, openTTD and IRC so sorry for not answering instantly :D
00:15:34 <Bjarni> Roujin: skip forums, OpenTTD and IRC and we will be happy :)
00:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think my next game will be lots of industries with low output
00:15:35 <Gonozal_VIII> or to get stuff across an ocean when you don't want to build strange bridge constructs
00:15:53 <Wolf01> Bjarni, and so how he can gather suggestions?
00:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> problem is, there are too many 2nd level industries compared to 1st level
00:16:08 <Gonozal_VIII> yes lots of industries with low output... that sounds good
00:16:19 <Bjarni> Wolf01: I meant right now not in general. Right now I presume he knows what to code
00:16:51 <Roujin> well forums == OpenTTD Development forum, OpenTTD == testing stuff from coding, IRC == OpenTTD channel
00:17:24 <Roujin> ahm yes i read it wolf01.. currently posting something
00:17:47 <Roujin> i don't like the idea of going down to negative numbers tho.. sounds somewhat unprofessional to me oO
00:19:12 <Wolf01> you can always shift the numbers to positive, the negative means only the size of the brush
00:19:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11771 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: split settings.h into better separated headers.
00:21:12 <Roujin> yes but i also mean gui-wise
00:21:48 <Roujin> i'd rather have a boolean button somewhere
00:22:22 <Roujin> or, alternatively, have this only in in scenario editor
00:24:09 <Roujin> well that's all dreaming of the future for now, first i gotta fix the existing stuff..
00:24:11 <Wolf01> no, what i meant, when you have size = 1, you click again the left arrow to decrease the size and the grid of dots in the gui turns from white to blueish, if you keep pressing "decrease size" the brush enlarges like if is normal, but blueish means that it has different function
00:24:45 <Wolf01> in normal game... eh, ctrl?
00:24:45 <Roujin> i think i did understand you
00:25:01 <Roujin> but i dont like this.. clicking "decrease" to increase brush size?
00:25:15 <Roujin> i don't think its a good sort of doing things..
00:27:38 <Roujin> well for now i've got other issues.. you ever tried to cost estimate a land leveling? and then actually did it and payed attention to the costs?
00:28:33 <Roujin> estimated cost: 4725 actual cost 4050 (i did that just now)
00:28:49 <Wolf01> i tried to estimate the purchase land cost when i made the draggable purchase land...
00:30:05 <Wolf01> maybe the estimated cost are right, but the actual cost is size-1
00:30:05 <Roujin> sorry, but purchase land can never be as hard to estimate as level land.. because level land can go over multiple levels
00:31:01 <Roujin> i have to rewrite the way level land works completely to fix it :P
00:31:21 <Wolf01> eheh, try to do it in miniIN where you must take count also of the distance of a city :P
00:31:49 <Roujin> that wouldn't be so much harder, really :P
00:31:58 <Rubidium> Roujin: you can't estimate the cost of landleveling, unless you basically clone the map and perform actions on that and then revert it again
00:32:35 <Gonozal_VIII> or change the cost calculation
00:32:57 <Gonozal_VIII> in a way that it's more expensive to change a lot at once
00:33:34 <Roujin> hmm i was thinking i could do it if i change the area terraforming to work bottom-up instead of recursively
00:35:20 <Roujin> meaning i find the lowest level on my area that has to be raised, do all these first, then the second lowest level...
00:36:05 <Wolf01> i think that is why chris didn't put the sizable terraforming tool in game, but only in editor where costs don't exist
00:37:25 <Gonozal_VIII> normal terraforming costs are also off
00:37:52 <Gonozal_VIII> most estimations are wrong^^
00:38:32 <Wolf01> so... don't lose time to fix them, continue with your patch XD
00:40:00 <Wolf01> i hope you'll remember my suggestion to make mountains with mouse up/down+left pressed
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00:42:55 <Wolf01> "morning"... is about lunch time
00:43:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11772 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp stdafx.h): -Change: add some extra checking in the hope to find the cause of FS#1335
00:43:34 <Wolf01> ok, i need to sleep now
00:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11773 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: move some non-clear-land functions from clear_cmd.cpp to a more correct location.
00:49:08 <Roujin> this means synching for me ^^
00:49:12 <Arbitrary> 3 unresolved externals? :)
00:50:07 <Arbitrary> ah - probably just not added to the project, duh
00:57:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11774 /trunk/ (33 files in 6 dirs): -Change: do not include variables.h in a header when it is not needed.
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01:10:47 <Gonozal_VIII> the lighting is wrong
01:11:08 <Gonozal_VIII> and that's not a default sprite angle
01:15:28 <Gonozal_VIII> soooo... what's wrong?
01:19:44 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: the livery
01:20:54 <Gonozal_VIII> do you see some different picture there?
01:24:50 <Roujin> don't you spot it gonozal?
01:25:11 <Roujin> it has dark-dark livery :P
01:25:50 <Gonozal_VIII> there's no third light on top...
01:28:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess they don't have to have that anymore...
01:28:11 <Gonozal_VIII> or never had to :S
01:28:23 <Gonozal_VIII> but really... what's wrong with that stupid train?
01:28:32 <Sacro> tis a Network South East
01:28:36 <Sacro> usually found south of London
01:28:40 <Sacro> but north of the Channel
01:29:46 <Gonozal_VIII> i guessed that it was a british train because the front looks yellowish
01:30:28 <Gonozal_VIII> buuuut what's wrong?
01:30:50 <Sacro> what the hell would it be doing in munich?
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01:31:36 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe some rich guy in munich bought it or something
01:32:17 <Gonozal_VIII> why is that picture caled deathtrain?
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01:43:00 <Roujin> ok turns out i had a completely wrong impression of what's regarded as "x" in openttd o_O
01:43:56 <Roujin> x... like in x coordinate
01:44:26 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the one that's not y
01:44:37 <Roujin> appearently it is lower left O_O
01:44:57 <Roujin> while y is lower right... is that correct?
01:45:37 <Gonozal_VIII> use the ? tool and check coordinates of a corner :-)
01:46:00 <Roujin> that seems to be a clever idea
01:47:07 <Roujin> well why make it easy if you can make it complicated? :D i hacked something in the code and compiled it to see the difference in behavior and thus understand what is x and what is y xD
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02:22:42 <Roujin> i actually just have to create a diff and look at it to get an overview myself what i actually changed in my working copy
02:23:17 <Roujin> actually the last sentence has too many actuallys i actually noticed
02:23:30 <Gonozal_VIII> you're actually right
02:24:53 <Roujin> in one file i seemingly added one blank line. xD
02:25:20 <Roujin> what a great improvement xD
02:25:44 <Gonozal_VIII> that's space for new features!
02:26:54 <Roujin> but i guess the devs would complain and mumble something about "coding style" if one would post a patch that introduces a whole new feature while only using one line :D :D
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02:27:52 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not the whole space for the new feature, only the first line.. but still helping^^
02:28:30 <Gonozal_VIII> one char less to append :-)
02:28:38 <Roujin> on a completely different note, what do you think about the leveling tool getting the sound that raise and lower has?
02:28:56 <Gonozal_VIII> i never play with sounds
02:29:04 <Roujin> i never understood why they gave it the exploding sound...
02:29:13 <Roujin> oh ^^ ok, wrong person to ask :P
02:29:33 <Roujin> then i ask this question openly to everyone lurking around :P
02:30:01 <Gonozal_VIII> tststs... 2nd hand questions
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02:54:43 <Gonozal_VIII> english channel...
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03:01:39 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't speak english?
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03:16:06 <s3mt3x> or a little bit. but not good ;(
03:22:33 <Belugas> practice makes perfect
03:22:53 <Belugas> and i still need to practice a lot :)
03:24:49 <Gonozal_VIII> random vowels, nevermind ;-)
03:54:33 <_Roujin> again question directed at anyone who feels adressed
03:55:23 <_Roujin> what would you think of level land making all tiles in the selected brown even if they're not changed in height
03:56:30 <_Roujin> i guess it's a bit senseless asking questions at a time like this.. heh
03:57:09 <Belugas> why would they turn brown?
03:57:38 <Belugas> to help your code ? ;)
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03:59:46 <_Roujin> hmm i'm thinking of a better excuse... :P
04:00:45 <_Roujin> you see if you level a square where in the north and south stuff is actually changed in height, then in the middle the working vehicles have to drive around aswell
04:01:02 <_Roujin> even if in the middle nothing is excavated
04:01:09 <_Roujin> sooooooo it gets brown aswell :P
04:02:16 <_Roujin> ok i confess, it's to help my code. or rather to help what code i have in mind..
04:03:16 <_Roujin> meh, forgot to save again before compiling
04:03:32 <_Roujin> always wonder why my changes don't work in a test run >_<
04:09:40 <Belugas> _Roujin, i don't understand your concern, nor waht you want to achieve
04:22:26 <_Roujin> oh nvm i was just babbling around ^^ good night
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05:11:47 <Gonozal_VIII> why would you want to fund factories close to farms... transporting that stuff further away generates much more money
05:16:43 <Gonozal_VIII> you could want farms + factory on one side of the map and the same on the other side to avoid empty vehicles on the way back...
05:18:13 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not easy... you need full load order to get high rating but when both sides have unbalanced production, most trains wait on one side...
05:19:39 <Gonozal_VIII> what happened to the patch where you could set: leave station if x other trains are loading or load for max y days?
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07:44:30 <robotboy> you said ru so I say barb
07:44:54 <robotboy> look at his user page on the ottd wiki
07:47:50 <Gonozal_VIII> had to google wtf rhubarb is
07:50:22 <Gonozal_VIII> i had no idea what lo was supposed to mean, the only thing that came into my mind was "links oben" where i replied ru for "rechts unten" :-)
07:51:14 <Gonozal_VIII> where links is left, rechts is right, oben is top and unten is bottom
07:51:45 <peter__> lo is short for 'lo is short for hello
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07:52:22 <Gonozal_VIII> aaaaah i c lo 2 u 2
07:53:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i see, hello to you too ;-)
07:53:30 <peter__> no no no, you're doing it wrong
07:54:12 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't do that wrong, it's wrong by design
07:55:07 <peter__> or i shall have to figure out how to get ops here ;p
07:55:29 <Gonozal_VIII> hey, you started it :P
07:55:45 <peter__> no, "lo" is just a (spoken) abbreviation, not txtspk
07:56:36 <Gonozal_VIII> spoken? didn't hear it ;-)
07:57:19 <peter__> actually i did say "lol" once instead of laughing :o
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07:58:36 <peter__> bah, sacro didn't play on my nightly that i set up for him :(
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08:07:55 <peter__> why not just use buoys?
08:08:20 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't help yapf much
08:08:36 <Gonozal_VIII> that would require the pathfinder to be dumber
08:09:12 <Gonozal_VIII> and then you have to place a buoy on every corner.. naaah not funny
08:11:13 <Noldo> there are better solutions to the ship pathfinding
08:11:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but i thought about that too... that the pathfinder works kind of like bjarnis little pirate robot
08:12:06 <Gonozal_VIII> and requests additional buoys if the simulated path doesn't leads where it should
08:15:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but then i had the shipping line idea... where you can define if a water tile should be used by ships or not...
08:15:35 <Gonozal_VIII> after that i realised that it would be much easier to simply use canals in water for that
08:26:27 <peter__> canals in water have other side effects thouggh
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08:47:52 <_Roujin> time to go for me, goodbye
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09:20:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11775 /trunk/src/ (22 files): -Codechange: move all autoreplace/autorenew functions to a single location.
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09:39:56 <dih> can net_frame_freq have an influence on desyncs?
09:41:40 <dih> and thanks for a fast response Rubidium :-)
09:42:19 <Rubidium> that the desyncs can be 'delayed' up to net_frame_freq frames
09:42:31 <dih> so they will occure either way
09:45:30 <Dominik> is it possible to specify a searchpath in the cfg file?
09:46:24 <blathijs> Dominik: A searchpath for what?
09:47:06 <Dominik> the standard data files
09:48:38 <Rubidium> very useful to leave at this moment...
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09:49:35 <Rubidium> Dominik: the 'problem' is that the configuration file is technically (for ottd) a datafile too... so it's the famous chicken-egg-problem
09:49:37 <Dominik> i want to load the value of e.g. SP_PERSONAL_DIR from openttd.cfg
09:50:33 <Rubidium> SP_WORKING_DIR is 'easier'
09:51:08 <Dominik> ok, then i have to find a workaround. because on the ds the binary is loaded into ram as a whole. there are no paths at all, except on the external flash card
09:52:09 <Dominik> and standard behavior for ds homebrew is to have a conig file in the root dir which tells the program where to load files from
09:52:15 <Rubidium> that's a completely different 'problem' imo
09:53:54 <Rubidium> what about making "root"/openttd.cfg a 'stub' with only the path to the place where all ottd files are?
09:54:51 <Rubidium> then you can easily override SP_WORKING_DIR or whatever of those search paths to the place described in "root"/openttd.cfg without messing up the whole search path system
09:55:30 <Dominik> if everything else fails i'll have to do that. but i'd prefer to have all configuration in one file
09:55:50 <blathijs> Can't you set SP_WORKING_DIR with a commandline option?
09:56:12 <Rubidium> the 'major' problem is that the configuration file is searched for after the search paths have been determined
09:56:13 <blathijs> Or simply use the current working dir of the process?
09:56:21 <Dominik> maybe i'll just put an extra line in the cfg file with the dir and parse that before anything else
09:56:22 <blathijs> (I'm probably missing something essential here.. :-p)
09:57:15 <Dominik> blathijs: there's no such thing as a working directory. imagine the game being started from a rom card
09:58:02 <Dominik> in fact there's no directory structure (posix or other) at all. ^^
09:58:26 <blathijs> In that case, you could add a commandline option to set SP_WORKING_DIR ?
09:59:12 <Dominik> there's no command line. the game is loaded from rom without being able to pass any arguments
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10:00:00 <Dominik> if i hardcode it, everyone is forced to use the paths that i chose
10:00:38 <Dominik> but loading the cfg file twice should work. once in the beginning to find the path and once during the regular loading
10:05:28 <blathijs> Dominik: That's not all that different from how it works on other systems
10:05:48 <blathijs> Dominik: You'll have to store your cfg in ~/.openttd on linux, for example
10:06:01 <blathijs> Though there might be some cmd line option to override that, though
10:06:11 <Rubidium> blathijs: there's not cmd line to do that
10:06:24 <blathijs> Doesn't the DS have some generic configuration storage mechanism?
10:06:41 <blathijs> In which you just can store a single value with the path of the other files
10:06:42 <Rubidium> but... if you already have a openttd.cfg in your current working directory or any of the other search paths, it will not place it in ~/.openttd/
10:07:22 <Rubidium> dih: ieuw... vardef :(
10:08:01 <Dominik> blathijs: well, commercial games have an area on the gamecards to store information. but it's not a "filesystem" a user could edit
10:08:44 <dih> Rubidium: what else should i do?
10:09:22 <Dominik> i'll get that to work, it's the least of my problems. i just wanted to check with you if there's a quick and easy cfg option i missed ;)
10:12:33 <dih> _network_frame_freq is set in settings.cpp:1282 to default to 0 ?? how come?
10:13:57 <UnderBuilder> now the livery newgrf is the one that gives the unsafe for static use
10:26:52 <dih> Rubidium: you have any other suggestion how to do that without vardef?
10:28:39 <Rubidium> you have absolutely no idea how to code something in C(++), haven't you?
10:28:58 <Rubidium> vardef is just an ugly hack by someone who was lazy
10:31:03 <dih> no - i dont :-) i just use what is around, read what is there and work with that
10:31:47 <dih> wanted to add a network setting so copied from another network setting
10:32:00 <dih> as i _assumed_ it would be ok to do so
10:32:20 <dih> as it then would be the _same_ as something else already in use :-P
10:33:06 <dih> _but_ i am eager to learn :-)
10:42:20 <dih> Rubidium: last 4 lines are all for you ^^
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10:53:36 <dih> Rubidium: vardef is used in 14 files...
10:56:23 <Rubidium> you haven't noticed that the number of vardefs is declining?
10:57:06 <dih> but if i knew how, i would love to help
10:57:42 <dih> i.e. if you tell me what to use instead, i'll happily send you a patch file that will get rid of them all :-D
10:58:49 <dih> what say you to that Rubidium?
10:58:50 <Rubidium> I rather do it myself as I otherwise have to carefully check where everything got moved to and such which probably takes more time than doing it myself
10:59:07 <Rubidium> primarily because I do it whenever I'm reordering headers and such
11:00:52 <Rubidium> not doing double (if not more) of the work is a shame?
11:01:27 <dih> no - not being able to do it for you is a shame
11:02:37 <dih> so in which file could i find an alternative to the vardef, so i could replace the one in that diff file?
11:05:08 <Rubidium> the alternative is using defining it using extern and and declaring it somewhere in a .cpp file
11:07:14 <dih> can you point me to a file and perhaps a line :-P
11:07:56 <Roujin> what was the command to get the newest revision displayed here?
11:09:41 <Roujin> and to find out what a specific revision changed? ^^
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11:09:49 <DorpsGek> dih: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
11:10:22 <DorpsGek> Roujin: Commit by rubidium :: r11775 /trunk/src (22 files) (2008-01-07 09:19:53 UTC)
11:10:23 <DorpsGek> Roujin: -Codechange: move all autoreplace/autorenew functions to a single location.
11:10:26 <dih> you can also use thim privately, with /msg DorpsGek
11:10:57 <Roujin> thanks for the info :)
11:11:22 <Roujin> i'm not very used to irc :P
11:12:56 <Roujin> i hate myself for having so many ideas for patches i could do...
11:13:06 <Roujin> i'll never get sleep T_T
11:13:34 <dih> a game is never as important as my sleep
11:13:59 <dih> if i really need the sleep...
11:14:32 <Roujin> but i bet this one was already made by someone: when building a station, it shows what is "delivered", not only what is "accepted"
11:15:36 <Roujin> but it has surely been done.. hasn't it?
11:15:41 <dih> Rubidium: can you point me to a file (perhaps with a line) so i can see an example?
11:15:48 <Roujin> i mean.. come on.. it's so - obvious?
11:15:59 <Rubidium> I can show you a line, but then you still would have no idea I guess
11:16:23 <dih> c'mon - it's not like i have never written a patch for ottd
11:17:04 * Digitalfox Investigates that line
11:17:07 <dih> and that used to be a vardef ?
11:17:44 <Roujin> but i just stumbled over something... appearently it doesn't work properly for some standard industries - namely oil wells and SOME coal mines
11:18:35 <Roujin> i guess there must be something wrong with the function GetProductionAroundTiles...
11:19:09 <Roujin> it works for all newgrf industries and for all standard industries except the oil wells and SOME coal mines
11:19:21 <Roujin> SOME = appearently depending on which layout it has
11:24:40 <dih> Sacro is infesting the channel.... oO
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12:42:28 <Roujin> so, brought out another patch :P
12:42:51 <Roujin> now i'm off, see you all
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13:13:43 <Bjarni> hehe... when reading a commit log for something that lacks a policy like ours to actually write what the commit is about can be "interesting" at times
13:13:57 <Bjarni> - Small fix to make code work as intended. <--- isn't this what all fixes is supposed to do?
13:14:06 <Bjarni> and... what is it trying to fix? :)
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13:17:50 <Sacro> i've gone from a north to a south facing room
13:17:54 <Sacro> you really notice the difference
13:22:02 * Bjarni is in a room facing both north and south
13:22:48 <Bjarni> oh an it's facing east too
13:23:22 <Bjarni> in fact it's facing all directions except the direction towards Sacro. This can't be a random thing :p
13:23:39 <Sacro> well, i have a north facing window
13:23:48 <Sacro> i think i have 3 external walls too :(
13:24:06 <Sacro> i've not looked outside yet :p
13:25:01 <Sacro> hot northern irish girl in this house
13:25:06 <Bjarni> got tired of getting rice every day?
13:25:24 <Sacro> but my rice cooker is going back to China :(
13:25:34 <Sacro> well, the biological one is
13:25:40 <Sacro> she's leaving me an electrical one
13:26:12 <Bjarni> those should be rather good
13:26:18 <Bjarni> well... some of them at least
13:27:39 <Bjarni> (no, I'm not going to translate the recipes... it's watch and learn :p )
13:28:08 <Bjarni> I would try this but I lack a proper rice cooker
13:29:00 <Bjarni> if I ever go to Asia then I might buy one
13:31:12 <Bjarni> Sacro: about that rice cooker... do they use 230V in China?
13:31:37 <Bjarni> or 50 Hz for that matter
13:31:53 <Sacro> she uses a plug converter
13:32:18 <Sacro> but then her laptop will probably be 110-240
13:32:49 <Bjarni> they are making more and more that operates on 90-250V and 47-63 Hz
13:32:57 <Bjarni> one product to fit the entire world
13:33:07 <Bjarni> but it will not work well with heating elements
13:33:27 <Bjarni> it works with electronics and stuff like that that has to convert the voltage anyway
13:34:08 <Bjarni> Japan is feared when it comes to power frequency... they couldn't settle for either 50 or 60 Hz... so they use both >_<
13:35:15 <Bjarni> their powergrid is 50 Hz and the end transformers has AC-DC-AC converters to make 60 Hz and then the buildings can get both
13:35:37 <Bjarni> I think they are trying to get rid of 60 Hz though
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14:12:46 <LA[lord]> what it takes to get a good sprite? Drawing skill... What do I lack? -"-
14:13:30 <Bjarni> a graphical editing app
14:13:41 <LA[lord]> Gimp is very good...
14:13:43 <Bjarni> that can read png and use custom palette
14:14:04 <LA[lord]> I guess it's drawing skill I lack...
14:15:16 <LA[lord]> I can always try to draw again but at some poit, it gets useless, if other guys can do it ten times better ...
14:15:42 <Bjarni> LA[lord]: oh it would be a good thing to have a working grfcodec too
14:16:25 * LA[lord] checks his grfcodec....wait a mom, he asked for what it takes for a good sprite...
14:17:53 <LA[lord]> no actually it's the last time I try to draw rail depot..from scratch..it this is a failure too I'll make something else
14:18:01 <Bjarni> technically it's not needed to have the codec but it's usually a good idea
14:18:29 <LA[lord]> You can post the sprites and let smb else code it, if you don't know nfo ...
14:18:33 <Bjarni> bugging everybody else to encode stuff for you might not be an ideal solution
14:19:03 <Bjarni> alternatively you can code support for XML based sprite additions to the game ;)
14:19:07 <LA[lord]> then it seems to be fortunate that I have learned nfo and have grfcodec
14:19:30 <LA[lord]> you saw my thread about futuristic graphics system?
14:19:44 <LA[lord]> It was atleast three months ago I suggested it :D
14:19:53 <LA[lord]> or something like that, similar
14:20:27 <LA[lord]> anyway, less talk, more drawing...
14:20:37 <LA[lord]> I'll present you with something in some time
14:21:18 * Bjarni notes to watch new graphics next month
14:24:22 <LA[lord]> If I draw, I draw quickly
14:24:26 <ludde> when did i release the first openttd?
14:24:41 <LA[lord]> (that explains the quality of my production though)
14:25:54 <Rubidium> openttd-0.1.1 on sf is of 13-03-2004
14:26:06 <Bjarni> openttd-0.1.1 Notes (2004-03-13 15:00)
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14:26:56 <ludde> apparently i started work on it 2002
14:27:03 <ludde> and the first version i gave to orudge was in march 2003
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14:28:41 <ludde> apparently then i stopped working on it for exactly one year :)
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14:29:28 <ludde> i guess i had abanboned it
14:29:44 <ludde> but then all the publicity around the open sourcing gave me back some inspiration
14:30:38 <ludde> 2004-03-06: orudge: Sorry to keep nagging... but is anything going to happen with your TT reverse engineering/reconstruction?
14:30:53 <ludde> 2004-03-06: orudge: It's just it's very good, and it's a shame that it's doing nothing ;)
14:30:54 <orudge> I still have those logs somewhere
14:31:03 <ludde> I can't tell, right now it's not on my list of prioritized projects
14:31:09 <ludde> i don't have any plans to work on it, but maybe i change my mind in the future.
14:31:53 <Bjarni> I have a download of svn from the 15th of March 2004... the date I started porting OpenTTD
14:32:03 <orudge> Session Start (ICQ - xxxxxx): Thu Mar 06 17:07:58 2003
14:32:03 <orudge> you probably don't know me, but i've been working on reverse engineering ttd for a while.
14:32:10 <orudge> I still have those old code snapshots and so on
14:32:23 <orudge> I never uploaded anything earlier than what was released as 0.1 though
14:33:02 <ludde> probably lacks some stuff from the widget directory, unless i'm missing something
14:33:07 <Bjarni> how did you know that I'm searching for my HD for my old OTTD stuff right now?
14:33:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11776 /trunk/src/ (25 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more header splittings to reduce the dependencies.
14:33:30 <Bjarni> but it's most likely without the stuff I'm looking for :/
14:33:32 <ludde> belugas asked me about it
14:33:47 <ludde> maybe he asked you too?
14:34:25 * Bjarni still wonders where he put the complete commit log of the old svn server
14:35:19 <Belugas> yeah... I'm looking at all the infos i can gather :)
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14:36:16 <Belugas> got that one, plus the the r607 snapshot
14:38:59 * Belugas will install cvs tonight at home :)
14:39:21 * orudge is just doing something
14:39:31 <orudge> which you may find useful
14:40:46 <Sacro> is 0.1 playable online?
14:41:02 <Sacro> i wanted it on the master server
14:41:05 <Sacro> to see if anyone noticed
14:42:51 <LA[lord]> but what is the first mp proof revision then...
14:43:04 <Belugas> 3.4 or 3.6 was online only, iirc
14:45:32 <DaleStan> Sacro: Well, you could just compile your own version (or even hex-edit a compiled one) so "0.5.3" becomes "0.1.0".
14:45:38 <Belugas> and 0.3.6 was more stable as much as network operations
14:45:48 <orudge> earlier versions did have networking support
14:45:51 <orudge> just not very good support :P
14:47:24 <Belugas> ok... good to know. My fisrt contact with ottd was on 0.3.4
14:52:56 * Belugas salutes orudge's initiative :D
14:53:23 <peter__> heh, silly cvs revisions
14:54:26 <peter__> couldn't do nightlies with that
14:54:35 <ludde> it feels so sad that it was like 5 years ago...
14:55:08 <ludde> and scummvm was even longer...
14:56:17 <peter__> and now look at the mess we've made of it
14:57:04 <ludde> (or tbh.. i have no idea cause i havn't really looked at the source since I quit :p)
14:58:05 <ludde> didn't C work well enough?
14:59:00 <Belugas> it's the first step toward migration to java
14:59:19 <orudge> I still think we should rewrite OpenTTD in Whitespace ;D
14:59:20 <glx> C works well, but C++ has some nice features
14:59:46 <ludde> C++ has a lot of anti-features too
15:02:00 <dih> ludde: you dont like c++?
15:04:32 <LA[lord]> I don't get what's the main differences between c and c++?
15:04:45 <LA[lord]> both are similar aren't they?
15:05:16 <frosch123> dih: If you like something, then you do not know it well enough :)
15:05:17 * LA[lord] knows nothing about coding
15:05:33 <Sacro> DaleStan: yes, thats true
15:06:16 <dih> frosch123: that is a very pesimistic approach
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15:15:02 <dih> r11777 compile error: src/unix.cpp:246: error: 'ttd_strlcpy' was not declared in this scope
15:16:04 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
15:16:24 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel.
15:17:14 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: There is no command "wiki".
15:17:23 <DorpsGek> dih: Ctcp, Filter, Format, Math, Misc, OpenTTD, Scheduler, Seen, Topic, WT2, and XMLRPC
15:17:46 <dih> pavell: you can use those also in /msg DorpsGek <command>
15:17:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11778 /trunk/src/unix.cpp: -Fix: compiles with ICONV failed.
15:18:22 <pavel1269> he retire to tell me anything :))
15:18:44 <dih> because you are not useing it correctly!
15:18:53 <Rubidium> pavel1269: well... if it doesn't know what you want in a way it understands it, then no
15:18:55 <LA[lord]> i!i!wiki and !password seem a lot like #openttdcoop channel ones...
15:19:06 <Rubidium> but *WHY* do you want to know where the wiki is?
15:19:28 <dih> Rubidium: are you surprised somone wants to read it?
15:20:04 <pavel1269> what it will write to me for command OpenTTD
15:20:12 <pavel1269> i just tried if wiki works ?
15:23:53 <LA[lord]> hmm...that supybot site has half estonian interface too :D
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15:27:44 <Belugas> dih: settings.cpp, not aligned
15:27:57 <Belugas> view your diff, look at it
15:28:39 <Belugas> openttd.cpp, some trailing white spaces
15:28:52 <Belugas> you don't know how frustrating those are while commiting :S
15:30:04 <Belugas> i almost rejected last stuff from Sirkoz when it failed, so pissed off i was ;)
15:31:35 <LA[lord]> my gawd...whats wrong with me :(?
15:31:58 <LA[lord]> I can't make any rail depots...not to speak draw beautiful things...
15:32:39 <peter__> though that only means anything if you're familiar with newgrf sets
15:32:55 <Rubidium> *or* know what peter__ has been doing lately
15:33:12 <Belugas> most likely the latter :)
15:33:18 <skidd13> Rubidium: true true :D
15:33:21 <Belugas> in my case, at least ;)
15:35:12 <skidd13> LA[lord]: to be clear not only :D
15:35:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11779 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Fix: win32 compile failed. Also removed a duplicate include
15:36:41 <LA[lord]> but.. two sets :S ...ahh I see ..It's peter_... a new patch?
15:37:00 <Belugas> dih, code style wise, i've got nothing more to say
15:38:08 <glx> was about to say at least 3 (UKRS, DBSET, and probably NARS)
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15:39:26 <LA[lord]> bah...I'm not very good at guessing what grfs might be in use :D
15:39:48 <peter__> ukrs, canset and dbset
15:40:24 <glx> hey I was half right (it's an north american one ;) )
15:54:00 <Rubidium> so when you say Czech railset and it is DBset you're half-right?
15:55:22 <glx> I guessed it from engine names
15:56:21 <glx> Czech one is narrow gauge IIRC
15:57:08 <Vikthor> or at least it is not intended as such
16:21:20 <icc> I just compiled on linux (with all req. stuff) copied files put when trying to start dedicated openttd just exits for no reason? help?
16:22:56 <skidd13> icc: any output in the console?
16:23:35 <icc> just $ ./openttd and then $ again
16:24:10 <skidd13> any instances of openttd running?
16:24:54 <icc> I'm trying to recompile now without the prefix and dedicated options
16:28:23 <peter__> even a dedicated build needs -D, apparently
16:28:42 <peter__> possibly something i broke ;)
16:29:05 <murray> i was wondering about that
16:29:51 <hylje> basically openttd with a null blitter
16:30:23 <peter__> i can fix that actually
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16:41:22 <Gonozal_VIII> train 7 is lost, train 3 is loster but train 13 is the lostest by far
16:41:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11780 /trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.h: -Codechange: When compiling a dedicated server build, select the dedicated video driver by default.
16:42:37 <Gonozal_VIII> that's why i wrote that, wanted to use those words^^
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17:24:50 <Gonozal_VIII> pavels avatar always increases the time it takes me to read new posts... bad pavel
17:25:36 <LA[lord]> gotta blame somebody for slow reading eh?
17:26:14 <Gonozal_VIII> can't read faster while laughing :P
17:26:39 <dih> purpose of extend_vehicle_life?
17:27:20 <LA[lord]> watch this avatar :D
17:27:42 <Gonozal_VIII> dih... to avoid vehicle_resurrection
17:28:04 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe yes, that one is good too
17:28:34 <dih> Gonozal: it takes int's but what they mean?
17:29:07 <dih> years to extend vehicles live by?
17:29:09 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea? maybe a factor
17:29:27 <Gonozal_VIII> leftover part from a daylength patch^^
17:29:48 <dih> e->lifelength = ei->lifelength + _patches.extend_vehicle_life;
17:31:14 <Gonozal_VIII> look where that _patches.extend_vehicle_life value comes from
17:31:47 <Gonozal_VIII> config? haven't seen that line there
17:32:36 <Gonozal_VIII> wow... it is in the config
17:32:38 <Gonozal_VIII> extend_vehicle_life = 0
17:34:00 <Gonozal_VIII> but what's the point :S
17:35:23 <Gonozal_VIII> well... you can set it to 1000 and never worry about autorenew costs...
17:37:54 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... i tested it with 100
17:38:43 <pavel1269> but i have much better ones ;)
17:39:19 <Gonozal_VIII> [18:33:47] Guest2349: and it works..
17:39:25 <dih> it add's 100 years to the engine's life?
17:39:27 <Gonozal_VIII> all vehicles hat 100 years more
17:40:32 <Gonozal_VIII> not only trains, everything from rvs to planes
17:52:21 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm why do i have stuff like daylength and seafloor in my config
17:57:47 <Belugas> looks like you're playing with too many patches ;)
17:58:09 <Gonozal_VIII> naaah default nightly
17:58:21 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess i copied the cfg around too much
17:59:12 <LA[lord]> why do you copy your cfg then I might ask...
17:59:47 <Gonozal_VIII> because i don't want to lose the settings?
18:00:28 <LA[lord]> hmm...putting one cfg to local openttd folder should do the trick... Same settings for every nighlty
18:01:06 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't want that
18:01:09 <LA[lord]> and then you don't have to copy sample.cat and other trg*r.grfs too anymore...local openttd folder/data
18:01:23 <LA[lord]> and then put the grfs there
18:01:52 <LA[lord]> so you won't have zillion copys of same newgrfs in example...
18:02:24 <LA[lord]> and if you want to change settings for one specific nightly then cfg in installation dir will have priority
18:02:26 <glx> LA[lord]: you can have many openttd.cfg and only one grf dir
18:03:13 <glx> puts all grfs in mydocs/openttd/data
18:03:20 <glx> and openttd.cfg in install dir
18:04:45 <LA[lord]> ..but then I indeed have to 1. ReSet all things if I get new nightly or 2. Mess with copying cfg file...As I don't change settings very often I find the way I described much easier...I just download nighlty, unzip it and start playing
18:05:34 <Gonozal_VIII> i unpack the nightlies in the same directory all the time
18:06:10 <glx> then use the global openttd.cfg
18:06:14 <LA[lord]> The folder name will be different every time because the revision changes
18:06:54 <Gonozal_VIII> i change the folder name too, but what has that to do with where i unpack it?
18:06:57 <LA[lord]> glx, I do use global cfg and global grfs :) and I thank you for this, because I find it very handy
18:07:53 <LA[lord]> Gonozal_VIII: Extract here will make a new folder which has new name...Because the archives include folder and only then the data'
18:08:52 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't extract it with extract, i open the archive and drag the data into the folder
18:09:41 <LA[lord]> and there comes the difference :D
18:09:46 <Gonozal_VIII> overwrite question... yes to all... yay, new nightly
18:10:01 <LA[lord]> or dl, extract, yay new nightly
18:10:10 <Gonozal_VIII> but old one still there
18:10:29 <LA[lord]> and If I want, I might delete the old one later
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18:29:59 <Gonozal_VIII> rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 = -100 <-- negative yapf penalty? i thought that doesn't work
18:35:17 <blathijs> Gonozal_VIII: Proper A* implementations don't like that
18:35:51 <blathijs> Gonozal_VIII: Though it might work out of the net cost of a tile (ie, base cost + penalties) remains positive
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18:53:43 <pavel1269> anyone here can make a server and want to play? :P
18:55:40 <LA[lord]> "Bjarni notes to watch new graphics next month" -> you can watch it right now too :)
18:56:39 <LA[lord]> I know that the shading is weird in lot's of places, but this is a subject to change later I guess
18:58:18 <peter__> make is playing on his server
18:58:25 * peter__ is playing on his server
18:58:33 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm you can even put the lang folder into the global dir...
18:59:08 <pavel1269> peter__: what server what verion :P
19:00:09 <pavel1269> will you play or just testing sth?
19:00:47 <peter__> although i think we're due a new nightly any second...
19:02:21 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm it doesn't look for newgrf in the global dir if there's a data folder
19:03:07 <pavel1269> server down or not public? :(
19:03:27 <peter__> recompiling for new nightly, 11780
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19:15:48 <LA[lord]> hmm..my rail depots have been up there for 21 minutes now, but still no comments...
19:17:18 * LA[lord] feels terribly ignored and goes raising his postcount at off-topic
19:18:15 <Gonozal_VIII> you should add some screenshots, sprites look strange with that blue transparency stuff
19:21:03 <LA[lord]> which means I still have to a) code them right now b) gimp them together...
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19:22:45 <Gonozal_VIII> code... you can't really call that coding^^
19:23:01 <Belugas> LA[lord], i do not like much the grey base. just an impression, no real reason
19:23:28 <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, it is coding, since it is a language :)
19:24:16 <peter__> coding is varaction 2 chains :D
19:24:33 <Gonozal_VIII> the grey stuff is ok... concrete foundations
19:25:51 <Gonozal_VIII> it's bad to have wood down to the ground because the rain "jumps" back up from the ground :-)
19:26:34 <LA[lord]> peter_ coding is also messing an hour with getting offsets right :D
19:27:33 <peter__> they're easy if you actually understand what they are
19:27:41 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to do any coding, just place it into trg1r
19:28:08 <Gonozal_VIII> same position, same size... works just fine
19:28:16 <LA[lord]> Gonozal_VIII: Why do it the easy way, if I can do it the hard way?
19:29:26 <LA[lord]> peter_: I guess I should make more use of print screen and GIMP measurment tool :) ...
19:29:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think he wanted an answer to that question hylje
19:29:58 <LA[lord]> hylje: but what if my sprites aren't the same size as it happens usually :D
19:30:43 <Gonozal_VIII> you should make more use of the original file, the sizes and coordinates are already there
19:31:01 <Gonozal_VIII> not same size = bad
19:31:42 <LA[lord]> Gonozal_VIII: For the rail depot they want it to be whole tile big so it's more or less "tileable"
19:31:50 <Gonozal_VIII> but not much of a problem, same coordinates, change the size.. there is enough white around the sprites
19:32:23 <peter__> LA[lord], ^S is ctrl-s
19:33:09 <Gonozal_VIII> ^ seems to be a lot...
19:33:19 <Gonozal_VIII> power... xor... ctrl..
19:34:14 <LA[lord]> ..something up there?....
19:34:45 <Gonozal_VIII> the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire
19:35:58 <LA[lord]> burn mothers, yuck!!eww!!!, burnn
19:35:59 <Roujin> and i always thought ^ was an accent used e.g. in french... :P
19:36:01 <pavel1269> peter__: can't join i am missiong 2NewGRFs
19:38:32 <pavel1269> canadian station set
19:38:41 <pavel1269> and something ... GRVTS
19:38:50 <peter__> both are on grfcrawler
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19:46:55 * LA[lord]_ 's jaw just dropped open
19:47:34 <Gonozal_VIII> better close it before some insects/spiders crawl in
19:47:35 * LA[lord]_ admired the new tropic terrain
19:48:04 <LA[lord]_> arghhh!!!! too laterrggh...
19:48:30 <Gonozal_VIII> they'll lay their eggs in you!
19:49:34 <Gonozal_VIII> can you feel them crawling under your skin?
19:49:35 * LA[lord]_ has a nice cute rabbit colony living in his stomach
19:49:50 <LA[lord]_> don't ask how rabbit's EGGS got there
19:49:56 <LA[lord]_> it isn't even easter yet
19:51:44 <Gonozal_VIII> what came first? the egg or the rabbit=
19:51:53 <hylje> the turtle, Gonozal_VIII
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19:53:48 <LA[lord]> svn co svn://egg.rabbit.co.uk/trunk ?
19:54:38 <Gonozal_VIII> the easter bunnies aren't in the uk
19:54:54 <Gonozal_VIII> obviously they are in toyland
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20:00:59 <LA[lord]> svn co svn://egg.rabbi.turtle.tl/easter ?
20:02:26 <LA[lord]> I notticed that yes :)
20:03:18 <LA[lord]> the rabbi was unintentional...really
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20:25:01 <Gonozal_VIII> you scared them all away la
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20:31:24 <LA[lord]> lalala lala...Me? no way.. I only ping and whing too much, never scare anybody
20:32:06 <LA[lord]> anyway, I /ok not coded but/ made the grf and added screenshot to the thread
20:33:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i know nothing of any thread nowhere
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20:35:08 <LA[lord]> the only thread which is already proved to be useful
20:35:44 <LA[lord]> I mean look at my post count...it has increased terribly since I started the hread
20:36:18 <peter__> quality, not quantity...
20:37:46 <Gonozal_VIII> [20:17:17] * LA[lord] feels terribly ignored and goes raising his postcount at off-topic
20:38:13 <LA[lord]> oh thanks for reminding me that
20:42:47 <LA[lord]> who is now scaring people huh?, Gonozal_VIII
20:43:27 * LA[lord] thinks that he has spammed enough for today
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20:43:46 <LA[lord]> they look at your face and run...
20:43:59 <LA[lord]> and you say I scare them of....
20:44:59 <Gonozal_VIII> your roofs are wrooooong
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20:48:11 <LA[lord]> I mentioned that in the post... Gonozal_VIII
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20:49:53 <Gonozal_VIII> they also have dark stuff at the tile borders
20:53:33 * LA[lord] wrote: /Again, any tweaks or stuff is very welcome :)/
20:54:04 <Gonozal_VIII> can't, my eyes hurt
20:54:32 <LA[lord]> because of my depot?
20:55:10 <Gonozal_VIII> because of not enough sleep
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22:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> segmentation fault
22:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> ha ha, very funny ;)
22:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> brb, system crashed
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22:06:40 <DorpsGek> dih: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
22:07:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: r11780 log: -Codechange: When compiling a dedicated server build, select the dedicated video driver by default.
22:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... and of course it crashed before finishing recording...
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22:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's so funny how the system crashes, but it runs on like nothing happened, and the only thing that still works is IRC...
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22:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11781 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
22:39:22 <DorpsGek> peter__: Open Bugs: 25; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 10; Opened this week: 8
22:39:34 <UnderBuilder> @openttd features
22:39:36 <peter__> hmm, it was 33 closed, a few days ago
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22:40:20 <Desolator> just wondering what the devs think about what chances the new opengfx project has to get in trunk and replace the old TTD graphics?
22:41:26 <Rubidium> getting into trunk -> probably not the way it will go. However, it will probably be part of default installations (via the installer)
22:41:50 <Rubidium> but not in the nightlies because the graphics themselves will be stable
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22:42:04 <Desolator> why it will probably not included directly with the game?
22:42:31 <Desolator> (so long it'll be released under the GPL or something compatible with it)
22:42:49 <UnderBuilder> why @openttd features doesn't work?
22:43:02 <peter__> i imagine that we might add support for loading it instead of the default graphics, but not put it in by default
22:43:16 <peter__> because features isn't a valid command
22:43:16 <Rubidium> Desolator: I said that it will not be in the nightlies because that means the nightlies will quadruple in size of so
22:44:19 <Desolator> Rubidium: I think some sort of compression should be implemented for the GRF, if it will have any effect, maybe GZIP? Just a sec, I'll try a couple of formats to see which is the most efficient
22:44:47 <Rubidium> Desolator: the images are already compressed
22:45:14 <peter__> it's only an RLE variant isn't it?
22:45:22 <Desolator> umm, yeah, PCX...one of the weakest compressions
22:46:34 <Desolator> hmm, ZIP turns the 3.2 MB trg1r.grf into 1.5, not bad
22:46:54 <peter__> the images in the GRF are not PCX, either
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22:49:08 <Desolator> ok, zip, gzip & bzip2 cut it to 1.5, while 7zip (basically lzma) cuts it to 1.2, although it's quite slow (but AFAIK the decompression is pretty fast)
22:50:11 <Desolator> so maybe changing the compression grfcodec uses to something more efficient (though still keeping the old one for compatibility with TTDP of course)?
22:52:19 <peter__> adding support for loading grfs from zip would be best, user-wise.
22:52:25 <peter__> no doubt harder to code though
22:53:24 <Desolator> however, there are severral algorithms used with the zip format, the good ol' deflate, bzip2 and another I can't remember are the most common
22:53:41 <peter__> bzip2 is not used by zip
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22:54:28 <Desolator> official, but I've seen applications that use other algorithms inside the zip format, either replacing deflate or using it on specific files
22:55:01 <peter__> .grf.gz would probably be simplest to support, but windows users would be lost, mostly
22:55:06 <Desolator> IzArc is one example, I can use bzip2 to compress something else
22:55:48 <Desolator> well, it's a pity that all those companies make their own formats and don't supprot creation for the ones extremely common on other platforms which sometimes are better
22:56:32 <Desolator> winzip can't create gz, and I don't know if it can open, while all those freeware and free and opensource archivers supprot a ton of formats (except rar & ace, for archiving)
23:01:30 <icc> why does there only spawn like 1-2 oilrigs?:S
23:01:57 <icc> is there a command in dedicate console or something to spawn more?
23:03:33 <peter__> they appear over time
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23:31:58 * SmatZ tried booting into Windows and running Unreal Tournament
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continue to next day ⏵
