IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-12-26
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00:02:21 <Gonozal_VIII> is there a way to get the windows in windows xp to be docking?
00:02:42 <Bjarni> isn't there a square with a _ in it?
00:02:49 <Bjarni> I think that one will do the trick
00:03:05 <Bjarni> but.... I'm not too sure about windows... I could be wrong
00:03:09 <Gonozal_VIII> that minimizes it...
00:03:23 <Bjarni> then what did you want?
00:03:30 <Bjarni> I thought you wanted it to move to the dock
00:03:36 <Bjarni> or whatever windows calls it
00:03:40 <Gonozal_VIII> no dock to each other
00:04:11 <Bjarni> if it's possible then I think you need 3rd party software to do it
00:04:25 <Bjarni> sounds like a nice idea though
00:04:38 <SmatZ> [00:55:30] <Bjarni> but... isn't it kind of expensive to go to France for just one night?
00:05:04 <Gonozal_VIII> some apps do that like trillian or winamp
00:05:13 <SmatZ> ^^ no... roughly ~150 Euro (bus transport, nights in F1, breakfast)
00:05:34 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like long distance bus travel
00:05:38 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I wish I had your memory...
00:05:51 <Bjarni> I don't like bus travelling in general
00:05:59 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: me neither :-x but that's the reason she bought that books :)
00:06:22 <SmatZ> me neither, some teleport would be great
00:06:27 <Bjarni> I tend to get car sick so reading just makes it worse
00:06:40 <SmatZ> spending hours or two in public transport every day is boring :-x
00:07:00 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: I wish I had your memory... <-- sometimes it sucks.... replay value of games like Monkey Island is very little
00:07:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i tried to google for an app but i seem to search the wrong way.. is there a better name for that than "docking"?
00:07:53 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: what are you looking for?
00:08:08 <Bjarni> I can still tell you how to finish all maps in Blodwych even though I haven't played it in years
00:08:25 <Gonozal_VIII> a way to make all windows in windows xp dock to eachother... like the windows in openttd do
00:08:54 <Bjarni> it's like "go though that door and then to tiles forward and there is a hidden path to the left. There is a good armour in there... you should go get that one"
00:09:09 <Bjarni> no fun when you know all that stuff
00:09:39 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> a way to make all windows in windows xp dock to eachother... like the windows in openttd do <-- now that just tells us that OpenTTD GUI is better than Windows GUI
00:09:44 <Bjarni> but we already knew that
00:10:04 <SmatZ> Bjarni: that's true, it is nice to play some game again because you forgot how to finish it ;-)
00:11:00 <Bjarni> but it allows me to have a decent vocabulary... I don't have to hear words over and over to remember them
00:12:11 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I know there are some people who remember "everything" (one of our politics, a communist, too :-), but I havent known anyone yet
00:12:22 <Gonozal_VIII> it was fun in system shock 2 coop... i got lost all the time and asked for the way over teamspeak every few minutes
00:12:29 <SmatZ> learning foreiign langueages must be really simple
00:12:34 <Bjarni> kikan (きかん) means railroad gauge in Japanese... I only saw this word once
00:12:42 <Bjarni> and now I can remember it months later
00:13:00 <Bjarni> (not to mention... spell it)
00:13:11 <Mortomes> Bjarni: That's incredible
00:14:07 <Bjarni> I can't remember EVERYTHING
00:14:09 <Gonozal_VIII> so... a better name for "docking" is?
00:14:16 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: I don't know
00:14:24 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: good question
00:14:55 <Bjarni> well... I tend to forget boring stuff... like stuff I have to learn for school :P
00:16:25 <Bjarni> you never noticed the times where somebody asked for where in the code something is and then I replied and talked about functions and stuff and eventually I say "wait. I have to open the file to see that"?
00:16:51 <Bjarni> half the time when I answer questions like that I don't even open the source xD
00:17:13 <Bjarni> kind of cool now that I think about it
00:18:00 <Bjarni> the thing is in order to remember the stuff have to make sense to you somehow
00:18:38 <Mortomes> Bjarni: So you're not as good at remembering things like lists of random words?
00:18:55 <Bjarni> people who remembers everything (like Rainman) will just store the data but without real access to get the data again at the right time. You will need to understand it in a way so you get "accesspoints" for it to recall it
00:19:38 <Bjarni> <Mortomes> Bjarni: So you're not as good at remembering things like lists of random words? <--- errr.... I didn't say that. I don't remember such a list for months though
00:19:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i remember FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8
00:19:57 <Mortomes> Bjarni: Well, things like that don't make sense.
00:20:05 <Bjarni> you reinstalled too often :P
00:21:10 <Gonozal_VIII> there are even t-shirts with that on it :-)
00:21:13 <Bjarni> here is a funny thing... I didn't have problems remembering the alphabet in Japanese until I read about how hard it is to remember it and remembering rules and then I started thinking about it
00:21:43 <Bjarni> it's not like it's tricky or anything
00:24:04 <Bjarni> it's あいうえおかきくけこがぎぐげごさしすせそざじずぜぞたちつてとだぢづでどなにぬねのはひふへほばびぶべぼぱぴぷぺぽ and so on
00:24:39 <Bjarni> I plan to remember the last part before the end of the year
00:25:01 <Bjarni> it's not hard once you realised the system
00:25:47 * Bjarni just realised that typing this on a computer is easier than doing it by hand
00:26:15 <Mortomes> Hmmm... I still recognize most of those hiragana.
00:26:34 <Bjarni> a computer helps you link latin letters with the kana saying the same sounds. When writing it on paper then you are on your own
00:27:09 <Bjarni> the whole alphabet up until "po"
00:27:52 <Bjarni> I remember all of them ;)
00:28:03 <Bjarni> I could have written this by hand if needed
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01:13:32 <kyevan> I recognize most of them! Questionmark, inverted-video A, inverted-video B, questionmark...
01:14:59 <glx> kyevan: then you have a problem :)
01:15:19 <kyevan> glx: It 'should' work, but, eh.
01:15:31 <kyevan> There's around 20 millions between me and him :P
01:17:22 <kyevan> Just from me to freenode, there's my screen, my video card, my hardware as a whole, windows's core, and such, the windows UI, putty, 'the internet', sshd, bash, screen, bash, irssi, 'the internet', freenode.
01:17:28 <kyevan> And that's skipping a bunch :P
01:17:51 <kyevan> and colapsing every hop made into 'the internet'.
01:18:12 <Bjarni> kyevan: are you referring to my writing?
01:19:03 <kyevan> Bjarni: I have unicode issues somewhere.
01:19:05 <glx> but utf8 works everywhere
01:19:13 <kyevan> And I'm too lazy to track them down.
01:19:31 <glx> everything typed is a succession of bytes
01:19:37 <Bjarni> or at least don't complain :p
01:19:40 <kyevan> glx: I was being silly, but anyway.
01:19:47 <kyevan> I wasn't complaining, I was being silly.
01:20:09 <Bjarni> even though we didn't think of this issue when making channel rules
01:20:27 <glx> and anyway we are not on freenode ;)
01:20:49 <Bjarni> freenode was horribly unstable when we left it
01:21:50 <Bjarni> we decided to switch the 3rd time I flooded out during the same day even though I was almost idle (two of the times I wasn't even writing anything)
01:22:04 <Bjarni> and since everybody else had similar issues
01:22:24 <kyevan> Random: Why are the Chipmunks so fun to listen to?
01:24:01 <kyevan> Alvin and the Chipmunks!
01:24:20 <kyevan> Traditionaly done by a guy singing at half speed, then speeding it up.
01:24:36 <kyevan> Now it's probably done by digital work.
01:24:49 <kyevan> Bjarni: You're not in the US, I take it?
01:25:02 <kyevan> They've been everywhere the last month or two, advertizing a new movie.
01:25:06 <Bjarni> I'm not that stupid :P
01:25:08 <glx> wow someone not knowing where is Bjarni :)
01:25:31 <Bjarni> glx: are you thinking what I'm thinking? :)
01:26:13 <Bjarni> it's not good not to know me
01:26:48 <kyevan> Bjarni: I think so, Brain, but where are we going to get rubber pants in our size?
01:27:45 <Bjarni> not knowing me, not being able to read unicode, acting silly and talking about weird talking animals.... you are for sure an US citizen
01:28:25 <kyevan> I'm from the land where sanity is abnormal! ^_
01:28:40 <kyevan> Bjarni: Well, there's no other practial option for me, at the moment, so.
01:29:17 <Bjarni> there is a chance that Mexico will accept you
01:29:26 <Bjarni> glx: that would be bad
01:30:44 <kyevan> Bjarni: Canada and the US are on good enough terms runaways would be sent home.
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01:34:20 <kyevan> Can somone paste in a little stuff outside the latin area?
01:34:44 <Bjarni> <Bjarni> it's あいうえおかきくけこがぎぐげごさしすせそざじずぜぞたちつてとだぢづでどなにぬねのはひふへほばびぶべぼぱぴぷぺぽ and so on
01:37:15 <kyevan> �AB�AD�AF�AH�AJ�AK�AM�AO�AQ�AS�AL�AN�AP�AR�AT�AU�AW�AY�A[�A]�AV�AX�AZ�A\�A^�A_�A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��A��@@and so on
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01:37:28 <Bjarni> doesn't look like he fixed his unicode problem
01:37:57 <kyevan> it USED to work, even.
01:37:57 <Bjarni> those letters makes no sense when you write them
01:38:20 <kyevan> That was just a copy and paste, so it probably just went crazy and copied the display...
01:38:45 <kyevan> WHY DOES IT NOT WORK!?!?!?
01:39:11 * mikegrb has [20:39:03] term_charset = utf-8
01:39:23 <mikegrb> and screen needs utf8 turned on too
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01:39:31 <Bjarni> mikegrb: did you copy paste or did you understand what you wrote?
01:39:40 <mikegrb> and the shell screen was originally launched in
01:39:45 <kyevan_> Nope, it just screws up different now.
01:39:47 <mikegrb> Bjarni: copy/paste ;)
01:40:01 <kyevan> mikegrb: I've done all that!
01:40:18 <kyevan> Unless... unless for some reason the root shell's not setting correctly
01:40:21 <mikegrb> what terminal software?
01:40:23 <Bjarni> mikegrb: that's not the way to do it... it's more fun when you understand what you write ;)
01:40:23 <Frostregen> maybe some font which lacks the right letters?
01:40:37 <mikegrb> Bjarni: yeah but I suck at that :p
01:40:40 <kyevan_> that would display wrong in a different fashion :P
01:40:47 <kyevan_> mikegrb: It's set right.
01:41:08 <Bjarni> why use putty for IRC?
01:41:22 <kyevan_> Because then I can use irssi.
01:41:25 <glx> he uses putty to ssh to is irssi
01:41:38 <kyevan_> and, well, I can't stand any of the windows clients
01:41:49 <glx> and you can set "character set translation" in putty
01:42:40 <murray> why ask so many questions?
01:42:45 <kyevan_> Bjarni: The Sims 2, SimCity, all the Source games, Microsoft Office, other stuff I want/and/or/need
01:43:09 <Bjarni> murray: to get the answers
01:43:29 <kyevan_> And no, wine isn't an option for most of those.
01:43:35 <Bjarni> all the source games.... wouldn't those be available in linux as well?
01:43:55 <kyevan_> It's valve's proprietary engine >_>
01:44:00 <kyevan_> (Yes, I know it's confusing.)
01:44:08 <murray> doesn't have to be free
01:44:08 <Bjarni> oh I thought you meant open source games
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01:44:17 <kyevan_> mikegrb: Doesn't do that, either
01:44:22 <Bjarni> what is source games then?
01:44:56 <kyevan_> Half-Life 2, Counter-Strike: Source (don't play that often), Team Fortress 2, Portal
01:44:56 <murray> source is the valve engine, for HL2, counter-strike source etc
01:45:31 <Bjarni> so source is short for "a bunch of games that I don't care about"
01:45:51 <kyevan_> Bjarni: Yes, but you and I care about different things.
01:45:58 <Bjarni> that would include the sims as well
01:46:14 <Bjarni> kyevan_: yeah.... I care about using a sane OS
01:46:31 <kyevan_> Bjarni: Then why the hell are you on linux, it's just as bad.
01:46:54 <Bjarni> you really have no idea who I am
01:47:05 <kyevan_> Please tell me you're not on OS X.
01:47:18 <kyevan_> And if it's Plan9, please, go die >_>
01:47:26 <kyevan_> OS X is the exact opposite of sane.
01:47:35 <murray> this is getting nasty, even for murray
01:47:54 *** kyevan_ was kicked by Bjarni (I'm the OSX porter.... now behave yourself)
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01:48:37 <murray> *uncomfortable silence*
01:48:54 <kyevan_> OS X is about as user-tweakable as a brick. Made out of solid uranium. Encased in diamond.
01:49:07 <kyevan_> (Well. You can alter the unix core.
01:49:21 <kyevan_> But for gods sake, you can't even turn off the ugly rounded corners!)
01:49:21 <Bjarni> what part of "now behave yourself" did you fail to understand?
01:49:49 <kyevan_> the part where it means 'agree with bjarni'
01:49:51 <glx> kyevan_: I'm currently trying to use OpenDarwin in pearpc :)
01:50:02 <kyevan_> glx: Nothing wrong with that.
01:50:12 <kyevan_> My gripes are all with the proprietary layer on top.
01:50:26 <Bjarni> kyevan_: there is a difference between attacking OSX, not saying anything and then agreeing with me
01:50:32 <Bjarni> I didn't ask you to agree with me
01:50:47 <kyevan_> I'm stating why I don't like it
01:50:49 <Bjarni> I just asked you to behave yourself and not making this a flame war
01:50:53 <kyevan_> You attacked windows, anyway >_>
01:50:54 <glx> kyevan_: you can say the same about windows
01:51:19 * kyevan_ glaresin the general direction of bash
01:51:23 <kyevan_> DO WHAT I TELL YOU TO, DAMNIT!
01:51:25 <Bjarni> you have problems getting unicode to work in IRC from windows
01:51:43 <glx> it works for me (kvirc and windows)
01:51:58 <kyevan_> It works fine in xchat, but I never use that
01:52:12 <kyevan_> it's a backup for when lofn goes down because it's ugly and useless as hell
01:52:20 <Bjarni> we should find something new to call him
01:52:28 <Bjarni> this is getting boring :P
01:52:43 <kyevan_> I have problems getting it working with my hackish thing that lets me use a saneish client :P
01:53:31 <kyevan_> hmm, what was the right thingy...
01:53:40 <kyevan_> LANG, I think needs to be set...
01:53:51 <kyevan_> to en_US.utf-8, IIRC?
01:53:55 <glx> LANG has nothing to do with unicode
01:54:25 <kyevan_> Bjarni: You're a block A block block AJ block AJ block A block block A K block B B block A block, too
01:54:34 <kyevan_> glx: except I'm NOT DEALING WITH WINDOWS RIGHT NOW
01:54:45 <kyevan_> I'm dealing with the shell on the unix host I'm sshed into
01:55:41 <Bjarni> looks like kyevan_ has no idea what I just said :p
01:56:02 <kyevan_> urgh, it's all set to posix for some reason
01:56:11 <kyevan_> I could have SWORN I'd changed that...
01:58:31 <kyevan_> so, in my login shell, set LC_ALL to en_US.utf8, right?
02:00:50 <glx> I rarely touch that as it is properly set on install for me
02:02:20 <kyevan> OK... third(ish) time's the charm, they say.
02:02:32 * Bjarni hits kyevan as requested
02:03:12 <kyevan> I think it's working now, barring font issues :P
02:03:26 <kyevan> Since stuff like that works now
02:04:06 <kyevan> Anyone have a decent monospace pan-unicode for fallback?
02:04:32 <Bjarni> I'm using CourierNewPSMT 12.0
02:04:46 <Bjarni> which is the default one here
02:04:48 <glx> I use arial unicode (didn't find a monospace one with enough glyphs)
02:04:58 <Bjarni> I didn't bother to set a font so the computer picked one for me
02:05:08 <Bjarni> and it's actually a nice one
02:05:22 <kyevan> PuTTY demands you set it, and that it be monospaced
02:05:49 <kyevan> I demand it too, because variable width fonts don't work well when you fire up nethack ;)
02:06:40 <Bjarni> I have one that can fulfill your request but it's OSX only and.... if I copy paste the name you wouldn't be able to read it anyway :P
02:06:55 <Bjarni> you see it has Asian chars in the name
02:07:02 <Bjarni> in fact it's only Asian chars
02:07:05 <kyevan> Is there a download link? :P
02:07:24 <kyevan> (Yay DNS and http both demanding an ascii subset :)
02:07:29 <Bjarni> it's part of the "Asian font" package in the OSX installer
02:08:16 * kyevan has, um, most of the disks for the install and a mac running it in the other room
02:09:10 * Bjarni wonders if the latin chars really are monospace
02:09:17 <Bjarni> the Russian and Asian chars are
02:10:00 <kyevan> Not Russian, ther are a couple other languages using the script
02:10:45 <Bjarni> I would have to say that it looks kind of bad
02:12:12 <kyevan> Oh, and unicode stuff works in ottd. At least the lattenish subset
02:12:30 <kyevan> áé®äåíæ©øµäåéä and all those things
02:13:03 <Bjarni> look at the screenshots I just linked to
02:13:45 <Bjarni> this is made with the unmodified code for OpenTTD
02:14:06 <Bjarni> so naturally unicode works
02:14:19 <Bjarni> I think it even was in 0.5.x
02:14:22 <kyevan> I figured it probably supported unicode, if there needs to be a 9x build :P
02:14:30 <glx> unless you use win9x version
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09:14:44 <ln-> you're too early, go back to sleep.
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10:55:44 <LA[lord]> does anyone know what do I have write to train nfo, if I want it only use ie passengers wagons. So that no other wagon could be attached..?
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11:18:31 <LA[lord]> hmm, do you think I've not been on that page for ....hours now? :D
11:19:22 <LA[lord]> I solved it so that I just made all wagons exept mail and pax to be monorail...I should make some better solution though
11:19:39 <roboboy> some people dont even know about ttdpatch
11:19:56 * LA[lord] thinks that he has now 9 slots free for additional trains...
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11:21:38 * LA[lord] starts thinking of compiling NfoRenum for MDV2008
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11:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11701 /trunk/src/ (71 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: removal unnecessary inclusions of map.h (and split map.h).
11:51:28 <LA[lord]> I'm a bit confuzed...If I want to make something to accept certain things, I have to use callback 'Get accepted cargo types (2A/2C)'
11:51:50 <LA[lord]> That means I have to have action 3 or two or sth
11:52:18 <LA[lord]> or to pt ut into other words how can I add callbacks
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12:17:49 <LA[lord]> Is Action 4 for Generic strings supported by OpenTTD?
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13:28:53 <Belugas> [07:23] <LA[lord]> Is Action 4 for Generic strings supported by OpenTTD? <-- yes, absolutely
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13:51:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11702 /trunk/src/ (76 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move all date related stuff to date*.
14:17:02 <pv2b> heh. i'm in a game and i got suddently +12 billion euro as soon as a company went bankrupt i think
14:17:22 <pv2b> anything i can do to preserve whatever state might be interesting for a bug report?
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14:19:41 <SmatZ> pv2b: singleplayer or multiplayer? did you buy any shares in versions pre-0.5.3 ?
14:19:52 <SmatZ> do you have a savegame before that bankrupt?
14:19:59 <pv2b> no savegame before bankrupt
14:20:11 <pv2b> afaik not an old savegame,
14:20:22 <pv2b> and i bought the shares in that game, not something that was loaded
14:20:40 <pv2b> i have a savegame after the bankrupt though, might not be so sueful though, i dunno
14:20:47 <pv2b> the company i bought had value €2 if that's interesting
14:21:33 <pv2b> i wonder if this is exploitable *<;-)
14:23:22 <SmatZ> maybe some money overflow bug
14:23:31 <SmatZ> it should be fixed in 0.6
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14:24:46 <SmatZ> like that company had shares in other companies, they were sold, company value overflowed to high positive numbers, then its shares were sold to you
14:25:05 <SmatZ> but it could be anything else
14:25:16 <pv2b> all companies were really small
14:26:07 <pv2b> could be underflow of some sort
14:26:17 <pv2b> as i said, the only company i had shares is was worth €2
14:29:39 <pv2b> ok, another platyer in the game has autosaves so he's emailing them to me
14:29:46 <pv2b> not sure if they're recent enough though, will check
14:29:53 <SmatZ> pv2b: all money oveflow / underflow should be fixed in 0.6...
14:30:01 <SmatZ> but if you have a savegame, it will be useful
14:30:06 <pv2b> btw, the bankrupcy probably was through reset_company or autoclean
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14:48:03 <SmatZ> pv2b: did you receive your email with that savegame?
15:13:19 <LordAzamath> what does it mean if grfcodec gives error: Sprite y extends beyond end of pcx file. file has 48 lines, sprite wants 48
15:15:21 *** Administrator has joined #openttd
15:16:05 <LordAzamath> nevermind, I fixed the problem
15:16:40 *** Administrator is now known as pieb0
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15:19:33 <Hideous> If anyone is there, I have a question to ask
15:20:25 <Hideous> Just because I am confused about airports:
15:20:36 <Hideous> How do I get the money that my planes generate?
15:20:56 <Hideous> It says they have a high profit in the plane list
15:21:04 <Hideous> But I see nothing of that
15:23:19 <Hideous> Oh I think I have it now |?|
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15:54:47 <LordAzamath> ok, I'll ask one question that I asked before, but nobody answered, maybe now some guys have joined, who know the answer...
15:55:35 <LordAzamath> How can I make it so that only certain wagons can be attached to certani train
15:55:58 <LordAzamath> Like if I'd like chimeara to only be with pax wagons...
15:56:21 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea... decode a grf that does that and look how it's done there
15:56:40 <glx> LordAzamath: you need to use callbacks
15:57:13 <LordAzamath> that I already figured out :D
15:59:19 <glx> you define callback code using action 02 and "attach" it to your engine using action 03
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15:59:53 <LordAzamath> like defining new graphics?
16:01:47 <LordAzamath> I was there today...I didn't understand everything..I'm going to read it again now..
16:03:17 <pv2b> SmatZ: i've got the email. just need to open it to see if it's relevant
16:04:46 <LordAzamath> but which callback bit should I activate with action0 for train?
16:05:00 <LordAzamath> Load amount...don't think so....
16:05:36 <LordAzamath> oh..this doesn't need to be activated
16:05:47 <LordAzamath> "Callbacks 1D (Can wagon be attached?), 23 (Additional text in purchase screen), 31 (Start/stop check), 32 (32-day callback), 34 (Autoreplace vehicle selection) and 36 (Change Vehicle Properties) do not need a bit to activate them, they are always active and will be used if defined in the action 3/action 2 chain."
16:05:51 <pv2b> SmatZ: you want it? send me a /msg *<:-)
16:06:22 <glx> LordAzamath: "The callback is always used when defined, no bit in the action 0 property needs to be set to activate it." in cb 1D doc
16:06:42 <LordAzamath> Yes, I read this :D
16:06:50 <Gonozal_VIII> let the cargo change from passengers to litres of passengers after the supersonic train had to stop at a red light :-)
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16:09:27 <LordAzamath_> "Set a default for the value that the callback modifies, e.g. set prop 07 when using the load amount callback" ...hmm what does 1D modify
16:13:32 <LordAzamath_> then value should I set :( I get so confused there
16:14:21 <glx> you have nothing to set, the callback result is interpreted directly
16:15:24 *** LordAzamath_ is now known as LordAzamath
16:17:51 <LordAzamath> oeh....I have read it soo many times, but still can't understand anything, but-> I need variational action 2'
16:18:38 <LordAzamath> I'll give it up right now.
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16:20:33 <glx> callbacks are indeed easy, you just need to understand the concept
16:21:07 <LordAzamath> You meant "aren't" yes?
16:21:31 <glx> once you understand how it works it is very easy
16:23:02 <glx> xx * 14 02 00 07 81 0C 00 FF 01 FF 00 1D 1D FF FF <-- this allows every wagons and only cb 1D
16:23:38 <LordAzamath> but I need action3 too..?
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16:24:34 <Ammler> guys, is the "prospecting bug" fixed?
16:24:51 <strstrep> Is there any way we can help pinpoint it?
16:25:11 <Ammler> fast answer, did already someone ask about?
16:25:21 <LordAzamath> ok..filling in the terms...
16:26:11 <glx> we know where it is, just didn't fully understand why it happens (it is very strange)
16:26:19 <LordAzamath> feature 00 -> trains,
16:26:31 <Ammler> glx: but "normal" funding works?
16:27:04 <glx> it's something with Random() in function call, like a(Random(), xxx, xxx, Random());
16:27:07 <LordAzamath> Is there a special reason why id is 07? Could it be 00 too?
16:27:19 <glx> it can be anything you want LordAzamath
16:27:45 <glx> I just copy pasted (and adapted) a line from callbacktut page :)
16:28:21 <strstrep> Can you point me at a line, maybe I can poke around at it?
16:28:43 <LordAzamath> but then type is 81 because "variable of the object in question"
16:29:02 <glx> strstrep: industry_cmd.cpp:1615
16:29:28 <glx> LordAzamath: and byte value
16:29:51 <glx> 0C means current callback
16:30:09 <LordAzamath> and feature specific
16:30:20 <LordAzamath> I'm getting there :D
16:32:03 <LordAzamath> varadjust and nvar are they?
16:32:12 <LordAzamath> don't understand that part
16:32:18 <glx> then there is 01 options: if (1D <= result <= 1D) return 00FF (I did it wrong, should be FF 80 in the sprite), default return FFFF (fails)
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16:36:16 <LordAzamath> too complicated...what does varadjust mean? and nvar...oeh..don't get this part at all
16:37:04 <LordAzamath> I can understand until this part 00 FF 01 FF 00 1D 1D FF FF
16:37:18 <Gonozal_VIII> [17:32:02] LordAzamath: varadjust and nvar are they? <-- i thought you were writing some strange foreign language when i read that line
16:37:31 <glx> this part should be 00 FF 01 FF 80 1D 1D FF FF :)
16:37:44 <glx> varadjust is 00 FF, nvar is 01
16:38:41 <LordAzamath> varadjust-> 00 is shift num?
16:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11703 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
16:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-12-26 17:33:24
16:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 16 changed by kristjans (16)
16:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 94 fixed, 6 changed by meush (100)
16:38:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 22 fixed by Smoky555 (22)
16:38:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 11 fixed by eusebio (11)
16:39:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 25 fixed, 4 changed by xbddc (29)
16:39:15 <glx> so bits 6 and 7 are unset, meaning there's only an and-mask
16:39:58 <LordAzamath> ok..what's and mask
16:40:20 <LordAzamath> value with which to AND the variable after shifting -> does not parse very well :D
16:40:31 <glx> (var >> shiftnum) & and-mask
16:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> & FF means "keep every bit"
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16:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> (or "do not modify"
16:43:21 <glx> indeed :) 00 FF means keep the var as it is
16:43:43 <LordAzamath> next is 01 FF 80, as you said 01 for 1 option and ff 80 for...
16:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> 01 means you check 1 range + default
16:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> FF 80 is the return value if you fall in range 1
16:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> range 1 is "between 1D and 1D"
16:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> and FF FF is the return value otherwise (default)
16:46:03 <LordAzamath> and what has it to do with selecting which wagons are permitted?
16:47:05 <LordAzamath> that's something to do with action 3?
16:47:23 <glx> what it does is just allow everything (depending on rail type) when using cb 1D (but it's a start)
16:48:16 <glx> action is used to tell what is the first action 02 for the vehicle
16:49:17 <glx> not a C case, more a VB or delphi one
16:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is what this line says
16:49:38 <glx> as you can have multiple values in the range
16:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> but 1D..1D would be redundant in a higher level language ;)
16:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> but... i was kinda developing a compiler anyway ;)
16:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm almost where i want to be...
16:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> but the first release is not going to support varaction2
16:53:41 <glx> you are doing a xxxtonfo compiler ?
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16:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> because i programmed 3 lines in NFO and it is annoying me too much ;)
16:55:41 <LordAzamath> ok, so how can I specify that the train can use only pax wagons... as much as I understand now, you helped me to get train, which allows all wagons
16:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> in 2 days work i am quite far, i have a plan for action0/1/2/3 support (for trains only, but it should be easily extendable)
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16:56:00 <LordAzamath> if the rail types match
16:56:02 <Gonozal_VIII> indian railways on 3sat...
16:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> not much to do with railways...
16:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> "die kinder vom bahnhof zoo" ;)
16:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> (i actually never read that book)
16:58:30 <Gonozal_VIII> was much more about trains before..
16:58:40 <glx> LordAzamath: the callback is called for the engine, but all vars checked are for the to be attached wagon
16:59:27 <glx> so you can use a varaction to check wagon cargo and return ok or not
17:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> but not in india ;)
17:00:44 <Gonozal_VIII> india... south america... almost the same^^
17:01:57 <LordAzamath> so another action2?
17:02:44 * LordAzamath feels like a last n00b
17:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> hah, a cinema in the train ;)
17:02:53 <Gonozal_VIII> cinema train... nice
17:03:31 <glx> so something like xx * xx 02 00 01 85 47 10 01 01 FF 80 01 00 01 00 FF FF
17:04:35 <glx> hmm wrong, the correct one should be xx * xx 02 00 01 89 47 10 01 00 00 00 01 FF 80 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 FF FF
17:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> now THAT is a broken down engine ;)
17:07:33 <Gonozal_VIII> service interval too high :-)
17:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> and literally in the middle of the pampa :p
17:08:23 <LordAzamath> do I understand right that I need both action 2 in my nfo?
17:09:23 <glx> anyway default value in my example is not very good too, FD 80 would be better or xx 80 to use a better message than "incompatible rail type"
17:11:07 <Gonozal_VIII> they use a windows sound for announcements at that station?
17:14:32 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, it was tada.wav :D
17:15:00 <LordAzamath> glx, if I put that thing into nfo and nforenum it it gives "//!!For feature 0 the following cargoIDs have not been used since their most recent definition:
17:15:02 <LordAzamath> //!!01 (last defined at sprite 6)"
17:15:34 <LordAzamath> where do I have to use the cargo id
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17:18:24 <LordAzamath> how can there be such people who CAN code in nfo...It's just plain too difficult :(
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17:19:08 <glx> xx * xx 02 00 01 89 47 10 01 00 00 00 01 FF 80 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 FD 80
17:19:09 <glx> xx * xx 02 00 02 81 0C 00 FF 01 01 00 1D 1D FF FF
17:19:09 <glx> xx * xx 03 00 01 yy 00 02 00
17:19:23 <glx> should do it (yy is the engine id)
17:20:44 <LordAzamath> engine is 57 (chimeara)
17:21:20 <HoTSteel> hy guys.. does someone know how shared orders works? I`m new in ottd and I try to understand some parts
17:21:20 <pv2b> - Feature: Introduce a form of timetabling for vehicles (r10236) <-- how do you use this?
17:21:29 <pv2b> HoTSteel: shared orders are easy.
17:21:36 <pv2b> HoTSteel: you have multiple vehicles
17:21:42 <pv2b> and you want them all to work with the same orders
17:21:59 <pv2b> but if you change the orders you want all of them to change
17:22:07 <Gonozal_VIII> clone vehicles with strg pressed --> shared orders
17:22:12 <glx> so action 03 says use action 02 with id 02, this action 02 checks the callback and do action 02 id 01 to test wagon cargo class
17:22:25 <pv2b> so first you make a "model vehicle" with all the orders you want
17:22:43 <pv2b> then you can for a vehicle with an empty order list do a go to, then ctrl-click the model vehicle
17:23:03 <pv2b> and voila, they're shared. if you want to disconnect a vehicle from shared orders, click "ed of shared order list" and press delete
17:23:26 <pv2b> don't just delete the order lines one by one or you'll delete the orders from all vehicles with those shared orders
17:23:37 <HoTSteel> ok... I`m going to test that
17:23:52 <pv2b> and as Gonozal_VIII said, if you want to clone a vehicle and make it so it has shared orders already hold ctrl while you clone it
17:24:26 <Gonozal_VIII> as for the timetable thing... that's strange and i don't know how it's supposed to work
17:24:48 <LordAzamath> glx, your code broke OpenTTD :D
17:25:22 <LordAzamath> I made a new vehicle (chimeara) and bought coal car
17:25:25 <Gonozal_VIII> but an expert in breaking openttd?^^
17:25:29 <strstrep> glx: I think I may have figured the desync bug (#1561) out. I just can't test it myself. Random() is called twice in the function parameter list, and C does not specify an order in which function arguments are evaluated.
17:25:57 <strstrep> glx: So some platforms may evaluate the tile placement first and others might evaluate the industry type first.
17:26:00 <glx> strstrep: yes we know, but it fails even if we put only one Random() in the call
17:26:08 <LordAzamath> glx, you are expert...
17:26:13 <HoTSteel> pv2b now I got it.. thank you
17:26:22 <Gonozal_VIII> then call random outside and put the result in the parameter
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17:28:33 <LordAzamath> the ttdpatch guys have their own IRC channel too yes?
17:28:45 <LordAzamath> I mean #tycoon is for general ttd
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17:36:52 <HoTSteel> timetable is for avoiding the overcrowding?
17:38:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
17:38:56 <HoTSteel> can you explain, please?
17:40:21 <LordAzamath> ok....I don't remeber anymore which train set it was that didn't allow certain wagons on certain engines
17:41:03 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess that too
17:41:19 <strstrep> Has VC++ Express Edition 2008 been tried out yet?
17:41:35 <LordAzamath> it says that its suitable for pax but I can attach any wagon there
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17:42:20 <glx> strstrep: some have tried it yes, why ?
17:42:40 <strstrep> I'm trying to build a Win32 OTTD client.
17:43:07 <strstrep> And I just found the 2005 version---they hid it quite well.
17:43:52 <glx> trunk can be built with 2008 (use openttd_vs90.sln)
17:45:10 <LordAzamath> ok...going to decode usset
17:47:05 <LordAzamath> I just read the licence of this and it says it's under GPL, so I can decode :D
17:47:49 <glx> LordAzamath: use grf2html
17:48:21 <LordAzamath> i have it already so I can use it too :D
17:48:29 <glx> it's way easier to read grfs with that
17:49:56 <Ammller> LordAzamath: you can decode every grf, but you can't modify and publish it usually
17:50:43 <HoTSteel> does anyone know how timetable works?
17:52:34 <HoTSteel> Ammller that`s it.. thank you
17:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: if it's GPL, the NFO sourcecode must be available
17:54:28 <pv2b> hmmmm. i just istalled openttd 0.6.0-beta2... and some "regular planes" are flying the same speed as super sonic ones
17:54:47 <pv2b> also helis flying the speed of jets
17:54:59 <Gonozal_VIII> they were all too slow before
17:55:23 <Gonozal_VIII> a train with 300 km/h was faster than a plane with 800
17:55:43 <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause3: show me the sources from USSet etc.
17:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammller: it's a violation of GPL if you don't provide a way to get the source
17:56:32 <pv2b> i wonder how fast yate haugans are.
17:56:46 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to release grfs under the gpl
17:56:47 <LordAzamath> you ca get the source with grfcodec
17:57:05 <LordAzamath> gonozal it just is released under gpl
17:57:06 <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: but there are some, i.e. USSet
17:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: but not the comments
17:57:38 <LordAzamath> but what would you do if smb coded it with grfmaker?
17:57:42 <Ammller> LordAzamath: sources are nfo with comments and working graf
17:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: GPL states you have to distribute the source in the prefered way of development
17:58:27 <Ammller> and I know no GPL'd grf, which provide you with that
17:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammller: you don't have to deliver the sources, but you have to hand them out on request
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17:59:47 <pv2b> ooh. another zoom level. nice.
17:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the way how to contact for this request must be stated near the GPL itself
18:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> (usually the GPL is delivered in a file called "COPYING[.txt]"
18:00:42 <Gonozal_VIII> grfcodec should keep the comments in...
18:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: that is a silly request
18:01:06 <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: you can do that with Action 0C, imo.
18:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> no compiler keeps comments
18:01:32 <Gonozal_VIII> well, the grf is not really compiled
18:01:53 <Ammller> 4LV is a nice example for that
18:01:59 <LordAzamath> and how many compilers allow you to decode it and encode it etc
18:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> some languages, e.g. python, let you define "docstrings", that will be kept
18:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can also read them from the program itself
18:04:26 <LordAzamath> grf2html isn't very ggod when you have 7000+ sprites :/
18:06:23 <Gonozal_VIII> just use grfcodec with -d
18:06:41 <LordAzamath> I have done both :D
18:06:49 <LordAzamath> I'm now reading the nfo
18:07:43 <LordAzamath> but there are no comments so it won't help me
18:08:18 <glx> that's why grf2html is good :)
18:09:07 <Ammller> LordAzamath: maybe you could also ask the author...
18:09:07 <Gonozal_VIII> what does the stuff that grf2html generates look like?
18:14:03 <LordAzamath> gonozal_viii, www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/grf2html.png
18:15:12 <Gonozal_VIII> oooh with description of the actions, nice
18:16:04 <LordAzamath> but try to find out something specific from those 7000 sprites....
18:20:28 <LordAzamath> ammler, I don't need the source actually, I just need to see how to make so, that only certain types of wagons can be attached to certain engines
18:20:54 <LordAzamath> I tried to learn it with hellp of glx, but it's still very confusing
18:21:06 <pv2b> - Feature: Provide aircraft with vertical separation depending on their altitude and velocity (r8534)
18:21:17 <pv2b> vertical sep dependent on *altitude*?
18:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> pieb0: that is a non issue for new pathfinder (YAPF, NPF)
18:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't really know why they still write that everywhere
18:22:47 <pieb0> Is the new pathfinder enabled by default?
18:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> even more, the old pathfinder is removed for trains
18:24:01 <pieb0> Thank you :-) all these junctions are amazing. It will need some time to master them...
18:24:02 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: nice tile grfs
18:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't like them...
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18:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> they look too indifferentiated
18:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> like they were done with only 2 colours
18:27:00 <Gonozal_VIII> there are not much more colours^^
18:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but you have like 10 shades of green
18:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> docs/openttd_palette.gif or so
18:28:50 <Gonozal_VIII> rivers in openttd would be nice...
18:29:54 <Gonozal_VIII> but it would be a bit strange to see a oil tanker climb those slopes...
18:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> ships should never be able to climb slopes, except in locks
18:31:07 <Gonozal_VIII> even locks are sloped
18:31:29 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't stop there...
18:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, they are kind of a hack
18:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is tolerable
18:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> now the master question... where do i get HD space from?
18:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean you want to gift me one?
18:34:27 <Gonozal_VIII> i bought a external 500gb hd for 99 euro some time ago
18:35:15 <Gonozal_VIII> only for gifted people
18:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> i bought a 400GB one last year
18:35:17 <LordAzamath> I gift you gift he giftes, has gifted
18:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you consider "is gifted" as passive, then "to gift" has to be the base form
18:36:17 <LordAzamath> I'm gifted with many things.
18:36:28 <LordAzamath> then yes, to gift
18:36:38 <LordAzamath> but not gift as present
18:36:43 <LordAzamath> but something else
18:36:54 <LordAzamath> like bless or something
18:36:59 <Gonozal_VIII> presents are presented^^
18:37:26 <LordAzamath> SC presents presents at present
18:38:09 <LordAzamath> or Santa Claus is presenting presents in present moment...or wahat ever :D
18:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, leo does not consider gift to be a verb... whatever
18:39:57 <LordAzamath> hmm...a Russian plane again violated the air-border of Finland
18:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> let's invade them!
18:40:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> russia is in the axis of evil!
18:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> together with austria!
18:40:53 <Bjarni> that depends on who you ask
18:41:04 <LordAzamath> ok..not all russians, but mainly the politicians
18:41:48 <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> ok..not all russians, but mainly the politicians <-- or rather KGB.... which is the same thing these days
18:42:31 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: do you have snow outside right now?
18:42:59 <Bjarni> try to look out of the windows once in a while
18:43:04 <Bjarni> like at least once a day
18:43:21 <LordAzamath> You know at april this year, when we removed one monument from our City centre, some russian politicians thought they should invade us...
18:43:26 <Gonozal_VIII> no.. there's webcams outside, no need to look out of the window
18:43:31 <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> former KGB <-- KGB is still there... they are just called FSB (or something) instead but basically it's the same thing
18:43:58 <LordAzamath> It's named FSB yes. KGB is only left in Belorus
18:44:20 <Bjarni> and rural Russia where they haven't detected the fall of USSR
18:44:37 <Gonozal_VIII> ok, webcam is not helping, pitch black outside
18:44:58 <Gonozal_VIII> but there was snow some days ago and it was below zero all the time so yes... there is snow
18:45:12 <LordAzamath> Today evening it finally started snowing...It has been w/o snow since middle of November here
18:45:20 <Bjarni> you stole our snow >_<
18:45:29 <LordAzamath> And I live in Tallinn...
18:45:34 <Gonozal_VIII> you can have it, i don't want it
18:45:50 <Bjarni> but you have to pay for moving it back here
18:46:19 <Bjarni> except when there is too much of it
18:46:19 <LordAzamath> we had black christmas (opposite of white) this year though :(
18:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> he doesn't want to pay for my harddisk, why do you think he will pay for moving snow?
18:46:32 <Bjarni> like a few years ago... Japan experienced 4 meters of snowfall
18:46:47 <LordAzamath> That's kinda...lot
18:46:51 <Gonozal_VIII> what is it with you and japan?
18:47:10 <Bjarni> well... it's a snowfall record
18:47:14 <LordAzamath> He likes Japanese grf, I bet :D
18:47:19 <Bjarni> I bet they didn't try that in Australia
18:47:33 <Gonozal_VIII> you talk about japan almost every day^^
18:47:49 <Bjarni> if we were talking about rain then I would mention southern India
18:47:54 <LordAzamath> ...big in Japaaaan , big in Japaaaaaannn.....
18:48:02 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> you talk about japan almost every day^^ <-- no I don't
18:48:12 <LordAzamath> only every other day
18:48:14 <qball> he talks about trains daily
18:48:38 <Gonozal_VIII> and japanese signs...
18:48:54 <LordAzamath> and suddenly we've got Bjarni talking about both trains and japan
18:49:03 <Bjarni> where else can you find railroads driving on roads?
18:49:28 <LordAzamath> they're called tramways btw :P
18:49:29 <Bjarni> I mean like driving on the same road for like half a km
18:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> did anybody actually read the link i posted? :p
18:50:06 <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> they're called tramways btw :P <-- no... those are trams... Japan also has railroads (not trams) driving on the roads
18:50:08 <LordAzamath> I opened it, but I can't speak German
18:50:24 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: I opened it and then the channel attacked me so they didn't give me time to read it
18:51:07 <LordAzamath> Bjarni, another feature you'd like to implement? Rails on roada
18:51:14 <Bjarni> I mentioned KGB and then you started a demonstration by making up lies about me and spread them in public
18:51:23 <peter__> bjarni wants to implement pbs
18:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i know the feeling when you are peacefully browsing the web, and a wild channel jumps out on an unsuspecting victim, totally mauling it
18:51:33 <Bjarni> LordAzamath: I wouldn't mind... but it's kind of a lot of work
18:51:58 <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni is a cia agent that wants to infiltrate kgb
18:52:15 <LordAzamath> atleast not KAPO agent :D
18:52:41 <LordAzamath> KAitsePOlitsei -> defence police
18:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, rails on roads could be implemented together with bendy bridges and subways
18:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> as kind of a "zero-height" bridge
18:53:00 <LordAzamath> and signals everywhere and pbs and and....
18:53:09 <Bjarni> but then how would the trains stop the road traffic?
18:53:15 <LordAzamath> and underwater tunnels and...
18:53:16 <Gonozal_VIII> roads in buildings
18:53:32 <Gonozal_VIII> there are underwater tunnels
18:53:43 <LordAzamath> looks like a tram to me
18:53:56 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, looks very tramy
18:53:57 <Bjarni> most (more than 90%) of the tracks are real railroad tracks (not in roads)
18:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> in germany, we have trams that drive as normal train outside of the city
18:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> but are considered trams within city limits
18:55:25 <LordAzamath> guess, what reminds more of that Japanese one ?
18:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: what disqualifies the train as a tram is the high entrance steps
18:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can't have train stops at pavement-level that way
18:56:24 <Bjarni> actually it's legally a railroad, not a tram. There is a difference
18:57:09 <Bjarni> trams drives on roads and melt into traffic. Trains has crossings so whenever a train is driving on a road all the cars has to stop at red flashing lights
18:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, in germany, the same train can drive under tram laws or train laws, depending on location
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18:57:46 <glx> we have some tram-trains here
18:58:27 <LordAzamath> does anyone have already compiled binarys of grfmaker? for windows
18:58:47 <LordAzamath> which (s)he could kindly send me :D
18:59:12 <Bjarni> you are indicating something about the people in here that ain't true
18:59:34 <LordAzamath> I know atleast one member of forums, who is female
18:59:39 <Bjarni> I have yet to see a female in here with a compiler
18:59:42 <LordAzamath> andelsgirl that is :D
18:59:58 <LordAzamath> And I guess Andel has compiler :D
19:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> not everyone that has a female sounding name is actually a girl
19:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> especially on the internet ;)
19:00:20 <LordAzamath> andelsboy then :D?
19:00:30 <Bjarni> let him has his fantasy
19:00:39 <Bjarni> it's not like it's hurting us that it's all an illusion
19:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, best to join #lesbians then :p
19:01:26 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: yeah... that's actually a nice site
19:01:32 <Bjarni> haven't seen it before
19:01:53 <Gonozal_VIII> lots of austrian trains :-)
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19:03:15 <Bjarni> anyway... about snowfall... Donner's Pass gets more than 10 meters of snow every year
19:03:18 <pv2b> how is the property maintenance calculated?
19:03:38 <Gonozal_VIII> we also have years with lots of snow
19:03:42 <Bjarni> it beats the 4 meters... but those 4 meters were in a single day.... I don't know how the weather could fuck up that much
19:03:57 <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes you can't see anything but snow out of the ground floor windows
19:04:28 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: heh.... makes outside walking a bit tricky
19:04:33 <Bjarni> not to mention getting fresh air
19:04:34 <AKiS> where can i download some languages to openttd
19:04:35 <Gonozal_VIII> and the shoveled path from the door to the street is more like a tunnel
19:04:51 <Bjarni> AKiS: those are included in the downloads
19:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> we had >2m snow the last time in '88 i believe
19:05:51 <AKiS> can u tell me where to download?
19:06:10 <Bjarni> the same place where you download OpenTTD
19:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> AKiS: if you have downloaded the game, you also have all language files
19:06:24 <Bjarni> all the downloads should contain a file called romanian.lng
19:06:50 <AKiS> u know some site with cool graphics?
19:06:51 <Bjarni> you should be able to switch to Romanian if it fails to do it by itself
19:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> it should also automatically select the language, if you have proper locale settings
19:07:33 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: that feature is OS dependent
19:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd be surprised if it wasn't ;)
19:08:15 <Bjarni> I mean the feature is not working on all platforms
19:08:17 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like that, always sets my game to german
19:08:41 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: only if you lack openttd.cfg
19:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> it has properly set the game to german on both windows and linux
19:09:20 <Gonozal_VIII> or if openttd.cfg lacks the newline as first character
19:09:25 <AKiS> how can i use more graphics without giving me that error?
19:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> but my config should be from 0.4.0
19:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> i actually managed to get openttd for the first time between 0.4.0 and 0.4.0.1
19:10:39 <AKiS> when tells me that i have exceded 16 or something
19:11:14 <Gonozal_VIII> write what the error is exactly, not or something
19:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> AKiS: if it is telling about sprite limit, that should be fixed in 0.6.0-beta2
19:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> but really, you should copy the __complete__ error message (in english)
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19:14:02 <Gonozal_VIII> not titanic again...
19:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could watch "Der Nussknacker" on 3sat instead ;)
19:15:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll watch "der flug des phoenix" :-)
19:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i watched that in the cinema...
19:16:46 <Gonozal_VIII> 20:15 Der Flug des Phoenix bis 22:25 rtl
19:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> with the actress that played "Eowyn"
19:16:56 <Gonozal_VIII> 20:15 Der Flug des Phoenix bis 21:55 orf 1
19:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, 30 minutes of commercials ;)
19:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you need a decoder to get orf
19:17:54 <AKiS> there are some tools for ottd?
19:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> over satellite, they have to restrict it to people who actually pay fees in austria
19:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> for terrestric, they don't need to, as it is restricted by sender range
19:19:00 <Gonozal_VIII> why would you need a tool for music inside the game? there are enough music players
19:20:01 <AKiS> so u sugest that i listen winamp while playing ottd?
19:20:51 <AKiS> do you know another game just like ttd?
19:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but if we told you, we would have to kill you
19:22:24 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know other games that are as good as (open)ttd
19:23:11 <AKiS> oh, and why i don't have any trams in the game
19:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> trams are not available in 0.5.x
19:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you need to load a tram grf also
19:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> note: trams are a type of roadvehicles, so they are not shown in the rail dropdown, but in the road dropdown
19:26:26 <AKiS> soo ... ok kill me... any game?
19:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on your definition of "just like"
19:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's the "ChrisIN" build of openttd, with "extended features"
19:28:10 <Gonozal_VIII> isn't the chrisin still broken?
19:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> then there are tales and rumors of a "TTDPatch", which is said to be more ancient than openttd
19:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> then there is "Locomotion", which is from the creator of TT
19:30:29 <AKiS> any site for locomotion?
19:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, there is "Roller Coaster Tycoon", which is kind of a successor to TTD, but with a different playing concept
19:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> then there are various transportation simulations like "Transport Giant" or "Trucks and Trains Tycoon" (also called TTT or Transport Tycoon 3D)
19:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> which might or might not be worth the trouble
19:34:49 <AKiS> transport tycoon 3d????? it's real???
19:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it's kind of an unfinished product, it's not really good...
19:35:51 <Gonozal_VIII> i gave you a link, everything else is there :P
19:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> scroll to the bottom, there is a section like "any other transportation game"
19:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> is simutrans actually being still developed?
19:39:06 <AKiS> the only "interesting" one is Transport Unlimited
19:39:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't now... that's kind of memory hungry iirc
19:40:23 <AKiS> or you have the link to download?
19:40:32 <Gonozal_VIII> and why is transport unlimited the only interesting one?
19:41:13 <AKiS> cuz i didn's saw the 3DTT
19:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> most of the games are not for free
19:42:21 <pieb0> hello, what does the "cargo accepted" in the land area information window mean?
19:42:47 <Gonozal_VIII> what's your guess?
19:42:53 <AKiS> what's with www.gidf.de ?
19:43:04 <pieb0> well, I read the manual, but it's still not very clear...
19:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> pieb0: means "if the station has this tile in its acceptance radius, you accept this cargo"
19:43:35 <pieb0> how big is the acceptance radius of a station?
19:43:47 <Gonozal_VIII> you can turn that on while building the station
19:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> pieb0: you can turn on the radius when building a station
19:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> pieb0: some tiles have a ratio, like "2/8 Goods", which means, all such tiles in your radius get added together, and you accept goods if you get at least 8/8 in total
19:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> AKiS: it says something like: "someone is annoyed because you ask him questions you could find out on your own"
19:48:45 <AKiS> there is no damn download,just a presentation
19:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> the german version of TTT was included in one of the Gold Games collection
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20:11:10 <pieb0> why does the landscape continually change shape? earthquake, erosion???
20:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> usually the AI trying to build a station in the town
20:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the AI is bad...
20:12:28 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden
20:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with AI for 10 years now
20:14:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but i think that will improve a lot when noai is in trunk and different ais are available
20:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "when", do you have any kind of reason to support that optimism?
20:15:22 <pieb0> Is it possible to disable AI when playing alone?
20:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> set number of opponents to 0 (custom difficulty)
20:15:45 <Gonozal_VIII> just set the number of opponents to 0
20:26:24 <AKiS> does anybody know how to change the menu?
20:26:38 <Gonozal_VIII> change the menu?
20:27:13 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a savegame
20:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the background game is a savegame renamed to opntitle.dat
20:27:23 <Gonozal_VIII> renamed to opentitle.dat
20:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you can replace it with any of your savegames
20:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it will open on the place you saved it
20:28:16 <AKiS> and the tutorials are really f***ed
20:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> we have tutorials?
20:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> we have demonstrations?
20:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure you are talking about openttd?
20:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> images, where each pixel represents a height
20:30:18 <Gonozal_VIII> a map with shades of grey that represent height and can be used to have real world terrain in the game
20:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> good if you want to scan real maps into a game map
20:30:51 <Gonozal_VIII> look in the forum
20:30:59 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a sticky topic
20:31:13 <Gonozal_VIII> how to generate superb heightmaps (or something like that)
20:34:31 <AKiS> where can i download some cool savegames?
20:34:58 <Gonozal_VIII> look in the forum
20:35:20 <Gonozal_VIII> there's even a title page competition going on
20:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have said from openttdcoop.ppcis.org
20:37:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i think he wants it for a title page... and i don't think the coop games are ideal for that
20:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but for a beginner it can be quite insane to look at them :p
20:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> especially if you unleash them on an unsuspecting newbie with a <500MHz PC ;)
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20:47:01 <Ciobby> how can i make really big cities?
20:47:24 <Gonozal_VIII> he didn't ask for a boolean answer
20:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> open the scenario editor, and click on "expand" several (hundred) times
20:47:55 <Gonozal_VIII> scenario editor, click expand until it's big...
20:48:26 <Ciobby> yeah but on a random scenario?
20:48:56 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on game version
20:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> some random towns are bigger from the start, and have higher growth rates
20:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> cities tend to grow really fast if you have more than 5 stations in them
20:49:34 <Ciobby> but how can i improve them>
20:49:45 <Gonozal_VIII> nightlies and beta have initial city size multiplir and growth speed settings in the economy tab in configure patches
20:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> like a bus or tram service
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21:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder how many nicknames he will come up with
21:03:11 <pv2b> the UFO bomber is pretty slow now, compared to the new aircraft speeds in 0.6.0
21:03:31 <pv2b> you'd expect it to... ehhh.... be fast *<:-)
21:04:02 <Gonozal_VIII> you wouldn't see it much then...
21:05:24 <pv2b> still, it's cfruising around at like 250 kph or something... i response to a fucking UFO landing.
21:06:13 <Gonozal_VIII> but it makes sense to throw bombs on alien visitors?^^
21:06:34 <pv2b> they're obviously hostile
21:06:44 <pv2b> otherwise they wouldn't bomb them
21:07:01 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ nice circular logic there
21:07:17 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: my favorite kind *<:-)
21:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and the iraq has WMD, otherwise they wouldn't invade them
21:07:35 <pv2b> i really like timetables in ottd 0.6.0
21:07:52 <pv2b> it's very nice to finally be able to operate aircraft long distance low capacity in a sensible way
21:08:00 <pv2b> not to mention passenger trains
21:08:16 <pv2b> though the interface could be a bit unfriendly, and there could be auto-seperation.
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21:08:54 <Gonozal_VIII> aircraft purchase and running cost still need to be changed... they're missing at least one 0 at the end
21:09:18 <pavel1269> btw, hi, i am back again :)
21:09:33 <pv2b> one extra zero would work
21:09:58 <pavel1269> i vote for 100x - 500x :)
21:10:08 <pv2b> that'd make it possible to turn a profit on good lines, but it'd cut it in 1/3 or smth
21:10:36 <Gonozal_VIII> for standard aircraft pavel... newgrfs are better, 10x could be enough there
21:10:37 <pv2b> but really, i don't think the operating cost needs to be changed ... rather... the ticket prices need to go down for aircraft
21:11:17 <pavel1269> once game i bought some airplane for 500K ... it loaded and on next station (first it's land) it made 3M ... :/
21:11:30 <pv2b> in fact, all ticket prices should be based on the *logarithm* of the distance, not the distance
21:11:40 <pavel1269> till then i dont use airplanes soo much
21:12:10 <Prof_Frink> pv2b: Never mind that, bulk goods should be distance-independant
21:12:35 <Gonozal_VIII> based on distance is ok but everything should have fixed destinations
21:12:37 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: not independant... it really costs more to move something 2000 km than 20 km
21:12:51 <pv2b> fixed destinations, like in simutrans.
21:12:53 <Prof_Frink> pv2b: But is it more valuable?
21:13:10 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: not neccessarilly. we just deliver them, though *<:-)
21:13:13 <pv2b> the value isn't in the cargo
21:13:25 <Gonozal_VIII> the money you get is not what they pay for the cargo, it's only for transportation
21:14:35 <pv2b> by the way, sending mail from china etc internationally is really cheap *<;-)
21:15:03 <Gonozal_VIII> but some kind of buy-sell system could be nice too... coal mine sells you coal for x per tonne and different powerplants pay different prizes for that based on their supply
21:15:11 <Sacro> pv2b: not if you're in England
21:15:52 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Then you wouldn't be sending mail *from* china
21:16:00 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: could do via
21:16:47 <pv2b> anyway, this is apparently because of how the IPU agreements work
21:16:53 <pv2b> (international postal union)
21:17:18 <pv2b> basically, for international mail, you don't pay for what you send out, but you agree to deliever all international mail sent to you
21:17:40 <pv2b> this works out pretty well for countries, like taiwan, which send a lot of mail, but receive very little *<;-)
21:17:59 <Gonozal_VIII> with that buy sell system it wouldn't matter for the payment how long it takes you to transport the cargo but it's your capital that's lying around useless in that time
21:18:01 <pv2b> net result? taiwanese web sites can offer crap for a few dollars each with free shipping
21:18:18 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: that works for nonperishable goods.
21:20:21 <Gonozal_VIII> you should find crap there
21:20:48 <pv2b> austria is not in taiwan yet.
21:21:13 <Gonozal_VIII> he didn't say that he wants to buy taiwanese crap
21:21:56 <pv2b> plenty of counterfeit electronics there *<:-)
21:22:45 <pv2b> anyway, one more thing about shipping stuffl ong distances in the real world
21:23:02 <pv2b> i live a few kilometerrs away from a coal power plant, one of the cleanest ones in the world apparently
21:23:20 <pv2b> at least in terms of local air quality
21:23:37 <pv2b> apparently they have special low-sulfur coal shipped in from australia among other things
21:24:49 <ln-> counterfeit electronics is so... i wouldn't buy
21:25:07 <pv2b> i dunno. sometimes the counterfeits can be better than the originals *<;-)
21:25:26 <pv2b> though for most counterfeits, they most certaiinly have not much going for them, except that they're cheaper
21:26:29 <ln-> cheap crap is ok, but it doesn't have to be counterfeit
21:30:35 <pv2b> ln-: it could, if the conversion electronics are inside the contact
21:31:03 <pv2b> a friend of mine actually made a vga/composite converter and put all the electronics inside the db15 contact
21:31:13 <pv2b> the circuit is actually pretty simple...
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21:33:37 <pv2b> actually, i misremembered
21:33:48 <pv2b> it's actually a vga/scart connector that uses RGB
21:34:18 <ln-> yeah, that one is a lot simpler..
21:35:02 <pv2b> that's clearly not scart -- it's composite. but if you can homebrew electronics to convert an RGB signal
21:35:33 <pv2b> i don't think using a custom IC to convert RGB->s-video in that small foramt
21:35:50 <pv2b> s-video->composite is really easy, i don't think you even need any electronics for that...
21:44:37 <pv2b> ln-: seriously, how hard could generating a colour signal from RGB be?
21:46:05 <pv2b> luminance signal is just a weighted sum of the R, G and B components
21:46:25 <pv2b> and chrominance is just a difference signal between the luminance signal and the R and G signals... i think it should be pretty easy
21:46:59 <pv2b> the hardest part should therefore be generating the luminance signal
21:47:09 <ln-> and that'll work with any resolution, too?
21:47:44 <ln-> the simple device that does all this
21:48:35 <pv2b> does it say it'll work with any resolution?
21:49:27 <ln-> as far as i can tell, it doesn't say anything about anything.
21:49:43 <pv2b> sure, i bet they cut a lot of corners, but i don't doubt it's possible to make a $3 vga->s-video converter
21:49:49 <pv2b> it'll prolly suck, but i bet it's possible
21:51:41 <pv2b> not sure, i think you can do rgb->luminance with just one opamp and a few resistors come to think of it.
21:53:18 <pv2b> not one opamp, i mean one quad op-amp ic
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22:11:03 <pv2b> the russians used to use lower frequency FM broadcast bands, i think the japanese still do
22:11:08 <Gonozal_VIII> brain control waves
22:11:09 <ln-> at least we were using military radios that operated at above 80MHz
22:11:36 <pv2b> "In most of the world, the FM broadcast band, used for broadcasting FM radio stations, goes from 87.5 to 108.0 MHz. In Japan the FM broadcast band is 76–90 MHz, unlike any other country in the world. The old OIRT band in Eastern Europe was 65.8–74 MHz."
22:12:05 <Tefad> channel 5 is below 88MHz and 6 is above 108MHz
22:12:11 <Gonozal_VIII> brain control waves!
22:12:14 <Tefad> though i could be slightly wrong
22:12:26 <Tefad> ln-: somewhere around there
22:12:30 <pv2b> Tefad: they don't have to be allocated over there
22:12:48 <pv2b> over here, we have some police band frequencies around 70-80 MHz
22:12:54 <pv2b> mostly outside of metropolican areas
22:13:02 <pv2b> inside metropolitan areas they're up at 400-ish
22:13:32 <Tefad> 27/49 MHz are used for low power remote control devices ; )
22:13:45 <pv2b> 27 MHz is also for CB radios
22:14:14 <pv2b> low power remotge control and such stuff is typically at 443 MHz over here
22:15:23 <Tefad> i think radios are more efficient at lower frequencies (power input vs range) but require more bandwidth to transmit the same data, iirc
22:15:41 <pv2b> Tefad: more bandwidth in terms of percecnt of the frequency yes
22:16:03 <pieb0> sorry, s it possible to rotate the map, or temporarly hide trees and buldings?
22:16:08 <pv2b> there is more bandwidth in a single analogue tv channel than in the entire shortwave radio band
22:16:13 <Tefad> this is why the higher frequency FM stations have more fidelity eh?
22:16:22 <pv2b> well... ok... slight exaggeration... maybe two analogue tv channels
22:16:24 <Tefad> pieb0: yes hide. use "x" iirc
22:16:39 <Tefad> there's also the menu stuff
22:16:58 <pv2b> Tefad: higher frequency doesn't automatically mean higher fidelity for FM band--- they're all prety much the same bandwidth
22:17:08 <pv2b> depends on the country though
22:18:01 <pv2b> italy for example can put stations on every 50 kHz step -- they use narrower channels
22:18:06 <pv2b> prolly means crappier fidelity
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22:20:03 <pv2b> higher frequencies usually mean more bandwidth and shorter range
22:20:05 <Tefad> ah, 2-6 TV is 54-88MHz, 7-13 is 174-216
22:20:18 <pv2b> (weird al yankovic *<;-)
22:20:31 <Tefad> well shorter range for a given power
22:25:01 <pv2b> assuming line of sight, yes
22:25:41 <pv2b> the frequency also determines if a signal will pass through or be reflected by a material
22:25:52 <pv2b> oh, and higher frequencies mean you can make smaller antenna
22:26:16 <pv2b> not just atmosphere -- terrain
22:26:28 <Tefad> AM freaks out at night ; )
22:26:38 <pv2b> i find i can hit repeaters on the 70 cm band easier than on the 2 m band if i'm in the city
22:26:47 <pv2b> though longer distances the lower attenuation of 2 m works better
22:27:46 <pv2b> yeah, at night, the D layer in the ionosphere which normally absorbs frequencies, nnot allowing them to skip on the ionosphere fades away
22:27:53 <pv2b> it's generated by sunlight with some weird reaction
22:30:18 <Gonozal_VIII> short question...
22:30:40 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: please make question longer.
22:30:52 <Gonozal_VIII> you're a little bit offtopic there ;-)
22:31:09 <Tefad> at least we're not on the youchoob
22:31:11 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: offtopic is the new ontopic
22:32:56 <Gonozal_VIII> and you obviously forgot about the brain control waves
22:36:03 <Gonozal_VIII> what exactly qualifies a film to be a free-tv-premiere?
22:36:33 <Gonozal_VIII> if it hasn't been shown for at least a year on the same station?
22:55:27 <Gonozal_VIII> that was a heavy pong
22:56:59 <Gonozal_VIII> i killed the conversation
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23:00:00 <pieb0> hello, how do subsidies work? I had a subsidy on offer for taking passengers between two towns, that expired, even if connected the towns using two bus stations on time... should I do something to accept the subsidy?
23:00:50 <Gonozal_VIII> it is activated when the first passengers/cargo reaches the destination
23:00:51 <Rubidium> build stations in both towns within 8 (or 9?) tiles from the center of the town, i.e. the town sign
23:03:00 <pieb0> mmmh, prittu strange, I have the bus stations right under the town signs.
23:03:28 <pieb0> Does it make a difference in what town the bus stops first?
23:03:36 <SmatZ> pieb0: subsidies will expire after some time
23:04:22 <Gonozal_VIII> they will also expire after they were activated
23:04:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11704 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: remove another bunch of useless includes.
23:05:30 <Gonozal_VIII> nothing good lasts forever ;-)
23:13:06 <pv2b> i'd like to mess with a simple little server browser thing to perform searches for potentially interesting games, and would like one of two things -- some documentation of how to talk to master servers and to the game server itself to get details, or some kind of read-only access to the server.php
23:13:27 <pv2b> err... not the servers.php... the database underlying servers.openttd.org
23:13:48 <kyevan> pv2b: The Ultimate Documentation is available, you know
23:14:12 <kyevan> The only documentation 100% correct and up to date with the source... is the source.
23:14:54 <Rubidium> not to mention that the server concerning the network stuff pv2b wants is a little overdocumented'
23:15:12 <pv2b> which is another reason why getting some kind of read only access to the servers.php database is a good thing. it means i don't have to work to keep my program updated to the latest openttd protocol whenever i upgrade *<:-)
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23:16:13 <pv2b> Rubidium: overdocumented as in well-commented, or overdocumented as in... there's doc in some place i haven't thought to look?
23:16:56 <Rubidium> the exact layout of the most used packet for game information is specified in great detail
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23:22:38 <pieb0> hello, how should I set up the orders for a bus that stops in different towns? Should I unload the passengers in each town? Should I order it to stop in each town also on the way back?
23:23:17 <Gonozal_VIII> with the unload order the bus will leave the station empty
23:23:37 <pv2b> making a bus that stops in multiple towns doesnt work very well
23:23:50 <pv2b> making *anything* that stops in multiple towns actually doesn't work very well
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23:24:57 <pieb0> what does this mean? If I have a street that connects three towns I have to buy three busses?
23:24:57 <pv2b> that's because there are only two options really -- unload, which means you drop all your passengers off at the stop, and pick up any passengers that were waiting that you can fit, and transfer, which means you pick up new passengers without dropping the old ones
23:25:00 <Hendikins> Whuff. New Years Eve is going to be a disaster.
23:25:22 <pv2b> passengers don't really have a concept of where they want to go, they're happy to hop off wherever you take them
23:25:34 <pv2b> which will be the first opportunity you let them hop off
23:27:07 <pv2b> pieb0: if you make a route that goes A-B-C-B, passengers from A will get off directly at B
23:27:12 <pv2b> no passengers from A will go to C
23:28:18 <pieb0> the route is A-B-C-D with one bus travelling back and forth. How should I set the orders? Full load in A, stop in B and C, unload in D?
23:28:35 <Gonozal_VIII> full load everywhere
23:28:51 <Gonozal_VIII> is a possibility...
23:29:10 <pv2b> sure, but that'll drop off passengers from A to B
23:29:19 <pv2b> so any passengers going to C will be from B
23:29:31 <Gonozal_VIII> you could also use transfer and take cargo together as "transfer and take cargo"
23:29:39 <pv2b> sure, but then no passengers will get off at point B
23:29:48 <Gonozal_VIII> transfer and load...
23:30:01 <pv2b> transfer and load if you start with full load will do nothing at point B
23:30:32 <Gonozal_VIII> yes that would only work without full load at a
23:30:40 <pv2b> it's quite simple really, on a mutli-stop route, you either dump all the cargo that's accepted, or you dump none.
23:30:52 <pv2b> (or you use unload which dumps everything even that which isn't accepted)
23:31:23 <pieb0> Is there a way to monitor how passengers step on and off the bus?
23:31:33 <pv2b> the only way is to look at the passenger count
23:31:53 <pv2b> i mean, i can see one scennario where a multi stop line would be useful
23:32:10 <pv2b> even then i'd probably to A-airport-B-airport
23:32:32 <pv2b> then discover in a few years that the capacity sucks and add dedicated buses for all lines
23:33:23 <Gonozal_VIII> my suggestion would be that: 1. a without additional orders 2. b transfer and take cargo 3. c transfer and take cargo 4. d without any other orders 5. c transfer and take cargo 6. b transfer and take cargo
23:33:51 <pv2b> that'd kinda work, except nobody could ever get off at B and C
23:34:01 <pv2b> so if you're aiming for growth, it wouldn't be symmetrical at all
23:34:08 <pieb0> how would that work with trains? Would it be the same?
23:34:22 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think towns care about where you drop the passengers
23:34:35 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: i think they care *if* you bring any passengers there
23:35:03 <pv2b> in essence you'd be only taking passengers from that town
23:35:32 <pv2b> also, it'd ruin your profits, openttd doesn't support in buses that some passengers are from station B and some from station C for ex.
23:35:41 <Gonozal_VIII> right... but without passenger destinations that or full load everywhere is the best you can do
23:35:44 <pv2b> so all passengers would appear to be from the stop closest to your ultimate destination
23:36:05 <pv2b> so you get less profit from your line
23:36:09 <Gonozal_VIII> or no orders at all...
23:36:19 <pv2b> heh. yeah. just let the buses roam around mindlesssly *<:D
23:36:27 <Gonozal_VIII> if it's about profit then point to point is the only way to go
23:36:43 <pv2b> simutrans has a nice feature called destinations.
23:36:55 <pv2b> so any carggo has a specific destination it wants to go to, just as in "real life"
23:37:02 <pv2b> so you can have a multi-stop train route for example
23:37:18 <pv2b> now, simutrans sucks in other ways, but destinations is nice *<:-)
23:37:34 <Gonozal_VIII> passenger destination patches for openttd are there
23:37:57 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: haven't heard of them. nice.
23:38:12 <Gonozal_VIII> still lots of problems
23:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are probably reasons why they are not in trunk...
23:38:38 <pv2b> i bet, or it'd be in the trunk
23:39:32 <pv2b> pieb0: if you're happy to transport passengers between A-B and C-B, you can use just one bus.
23:42:27 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess you'll need lots of busses anyways
23:43:29 <pieb0> They are expensive!!! 10K for a bus is a lot!
23:44:01 <pv2b> lol. a car costs less than that *<:-)
23:44:11 <Gonozal_VIII> well... try to buy a bus in rl for 10k euro ;-)
23:44:29 <pieb0> I think the trains cost less
23:44:42 <pavel1269> eh ... i dont have 10K euro :/
23:44:50 <Gonozal_VIII> czech black market doesn't count :P
23:46:10 <Gonozal_VIII> you could make 10k euro fast with smuggling cigarettes over the border ;-)
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