IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-12-05
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00:00:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i get ~320 kb/s with torrents
00:00:25 <mikl> I'm quite lucky with torrents - I almost always find a seeder with a phat pipe
00:00:30 <glx> ln-: it may still work, but I don't have a phone line to check
00:00:50 <orudge> I find Usenet best for checking my downstream
00:00:53 <ln-> glx: it's still used by people who have phone lines?
00:00:55 <orudge> tends to take up my full connection speed
00:01:10 <Bjarni> I decided to try speedtest and it looked ok with a nearby server so I decided to try long distance. I picked Okinawa (don't ask why) and I got a ping of 666. Is that an indication that I did something wrong?
00:01:39 <mikl> I also have my webserver with a 100mbit connection if I want to play...
00:01:48 <glx> ln-: maybe, some people still not have a computer and internet
00:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> <mikl> kB or kiB? <- which one is which?
00:02:50 <Gonozal_VIII> why would such people (people with no life) need a phone then?
00:02:51 <Bjarni> Interesting... I only have a ping of 206 to Wellington
00:05:29 * Bjarni wonders why he can upload faster to California than to Portugal
00:06:00 <Bjarni> while I download faster from Portugal and I have a better ping in Portugal
00:06:30 <mikl> the internet is like that...
00:06:41 <Gonozal_VIII> because there is a fast fiber optical cable through the atlantic and lots of short connections after one another through europe
00:06:46 <Prof_Frink> the internet is for porn.
00:07:23 <Bjarni> I have faster upload and download to London... but twice the ping
00:07:34 <Gonozal_VIII> there is a song about "the inernet is for porn"
00:07:40 <Bjarni> upload is almost like the nearest server
00:07:45 <orudge> Gonozal_VIII: indeed there is
00:08:29 <Bjarni> <orudge> tis from Avenue Q <-- you made a typo. It's spelled "tits"
00:08:41 *** Prof_Frink was kicked by Bjarni (not again)
00:09:11 <mikl> bleh, Cmd+W in the wrong window :(
00:09:58 <Bjarni> mikl: not as funny as "who decided to put the X (close channel window) next to where you click to switch to the channel?"
00:10:29 <Bjarni> hmm... where is the command sign?
00:10:35 <mikl> I love the Firefox-extension that removes the close button from tabs
00:10:43 <Bjarni> I mean what keys should I press to get it?
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00:11:24 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Dave2. Dave2: Bjarni.
00:11:26 <Bjarni> mikl: answer the question
00:11:33 <Gonozal_VIII> [01:10:34] mikl: I love the Firefox-extension that removes the close button from tabs <-- ff 2 default
00:11:53 <Gonozal_VIII> no wait... the other way around
00:12:07 <Gonozal_VIII> old ff has the x outside the tabs
00:12:38 <Bjarni> btw I managed to crash firefox today
00:12:49 <Bjarni> I typed in an URL and it didn't like it
00:13:01 <mikl> I don't know if there's a way to produce it with keyboard only
00:13:02 <SmatZ> my firefox crashes often... because of flash player
00:13:04 <Bjarni> then I realised that my keyboard was still set to hiragana
00:13:08 <Bjarni> no wonder it fucked up
00:13:24 <glx> <mikl> I don't know if there's a way to produce it with keyboard only <-- it is always possible
00:14:03 <mikl> the unicode-code for it is 2318, but I can't just do Alt+2318 like in Windows
00:14:48 <Bjarni> mikl: but it's mandatory to know this key:
00:14:53 <Bjarni> it's on the keyboard... somewhere
00:14:58 <Bjarni> try to figure it out XD
00:15:07 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm i can't understand sacro... is that a good or a bad thing?
00:15:34 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: he goes to read something else than this channel..... that's a good thing
00:15:40 <mikl> Bjarni: good thing I have the Keyboard viewer
00:15:46 <Sacro> yeah well, i can do many strange things
00:15:55 <mikl> one of the small pieces of brilliance by Apple
00:16:04 <Bjarni> Sacro: I thought you were going to look up dirty words on wikipedia
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00:16:15 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (you can even get kicked)
00:16:26 *** DorpsGek was kicked by orudge (so can you!)
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00:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11574 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: flood train stations when there are no trains on border tiles too (when non-uniform stations are OFF)
00:16:57 <glx> orudge: nopt fair to kick the bot
00:17:45 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (kick the baby)
00:17:59 <Sacro> one day i won't come back
00:18:05 <mikl> Ah, I miss beeing a BOFH
00:18:12 <AntB> don't tell them that >.>
00:18:28 <Bjarni> Sacro: is that a threat or promise?
00:18:44 <mikl> the olden Quakenet days, running a big channel and having a bouncer with a l33t vhost
00:18:44 <Prof_Frink> mikl: Keep an eye on lws1984's blog then.
00:19:04 <Prof_Frink> mikl: Are you Jolteon?
00:19:36 <mikl> Prof_Frink: no, Pokémons exist only in your imagination.
00:19:54 <mikl> Sorry that I had to be the one to tell you ;)
00:19:56 <Prof_Frink> mikl: No, the #tycoon-ite
00:20:14 <Prof_Frink> On quakenet, with a lame bouncer and lamer vhost.
00:20:22 <Bjarni> pokemon is banned in here.... it gives anime a bad name
00:20:48 <mikl> Prof_Frink: no, haven't been on Quakenet in ages, and I've never been in that channel
00:20:48 <Prof_Frink> -!- Jolteon [105Adam@Take.my.Penis.in.your.hand.if.you.wanna.be.myfriend.info.tm] has joined #tycoon
00:21:07 <Prof_Frink> That one was just... disturbing
00:21:12 *** mikl was kicked by Bjarni (<mikl> kick the ops!)
00:22:23 <mikl> Prof_Frink: I had vhosts like 'storm@er.med.i.foreningen.af.togtosser.dk' and lame stuff like that
00:22:49 <Bjarni> I want that domain name XD
00:22:51 <mikl> I knew a couple of guys that rented out gameservers
00:23:03 <orudge> I have vhosts like orudge.users.quakenet.org, and pc.lan.owenrudge.net!
00:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> in #mathe we once introduced a ban on *.*.*.*.*.*
00:23:07 <orudge> yoda.zernebok.com is another!
00:23:09 <mikl> Bjarni: I actually own brushane.com :)
00:23:13 <orudge> Eddi|zuHause: good thinking
00:23:20 * Prof_Frink just uses the standard users.quakenet.org cloak
00:23:37 <Prof_Frink> [23:17:48] <+Prof_Frink> Can you at least ban *!*@*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* ?
00:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> we later had to increase the number of . though, because some provider used that many
00:24:15 <mikl> I once had snapsgryden.dk and managed to get TDC to bind my IP to bor.i.snapsgryden.dk :)
00:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was tiscali
00:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it used the normal ip, and then added .tiscali.de to it, or something
00:24:51 * Bjarni wonders if mikl is drunk
00:25:04 * orudge 's ISP lets him specify his own reverse DNS
00:25:07 <mikl> Bjarni: nono, not this early :)
00:25:53 <mikl> so when I IRC'd from home I'd be storm@bor.i.snapsgryden.dk :D
00:25:54 <NarkSlap> Bjarni, Is OpenTTD swedish from the start?
00:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> also, we have a ban on *xx0r* for all the lamers...
00:26:22 <orudge> the project that became OpenTTD was written by a Swedish author
00:26:28 <orudge> in Sweden, as far as I know
00:26:35 <orudge> but it wasn't know as OpenTTD until it was released to the public ;)
00:26:37 <Bjarni> NarkSlap: basically if your system is set to Swedish then yes
00:26:37 <NarkSlap> How old is that guy now?
00:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> he is still alive, if that is what you ask :p
00:28:08 <Bjarni> I once spoke with a Dane who had Swedish windows on his laptop and Swedish keyboard... then he said that it was impossible to install anything but Swedish windows on it... he tried to install the Danish version but it detected his language change and rejected him
00:28:10 <NarkSlap> Eddi|zuHause, mja, Its a guy on an other net that claims that his brother started OpenTTD
00:28:16 <Gonozal_VIII> curry and chocolate?
00:28:18 <mikl> he retired from OTTD after destroying the SVN repository, if memory serves
00:28:44 <NarkSlap> And this guy should now be 26years
00:28:55 <mikl> or was it his brother that trashed it - don't remeber
00:28:56 <Bjarni> the guy who started OpenTTD?
00:29:06 <mikl> can't spell, it's too leate...
00:29:21 <Bjarni> I can remember the incident... the question is...
00:29:28 <Bjarni> NarkSlap: what is the real name of this guy?
00:30:08 <Bjarni> I meant the brother :p
00:30:42 <NarkSlap> His brothers name is Ludvig he says
00:30:53 <Bjarni> Ludvig's brother's brother's brother
00:31:07 <NarkSlap> The guy Im chatting with?
00:32:28 <Bjarni> either you find a well informed infiltrator or the real thing
00:32:44 <glx> NarkSlap: ask him who wrote µtorrent :)
00:32:47 <NarkSlap> He claims that he owns the openttd.org/.com, so
00:33:22 <NarkSlap> Bjarni, his nick is wiggo^ btw and lives in Gothenburg
00:33:28 <Bjarni> this is not like the time when a guy from Australia turned out and claimed to be friends with Ludvig and that they did drugs together and were heavy drinkers and active on the dancefloor
00:33:57 <Bjarni> if you know ludde/Ludvig then you will understand how far out this one is
00:34:12 <Bjarni> specially the dancefloor part
00:34:45 <mikl> I wish OS X had edge resistance ...
00:34:55 <Bjarni> basically ludde is stuck in a wheelchair
00:35:11 <glx> NarkSlap: whois says it can be true
00:35:11 <NarkSlap> It can be hard to dance then
00:35:18 <Bjarni> makes it rather hard to imagine him being an active dancer, a heavy drinker and wandering from bar to bar
00:36:06 <Gonozal_VIII> there is a blind programmer at my uni...
00:36:33 <Bjarni> <mikl> he retired from OTTD after destroying the SVN repository, if memory serves <-- actually it was an external guy who gained access somehow and wrecked the server
00:36:33 <AntB> thats gotta be a pain when debugging
00:36:40 <Bjarni> we never figured out how :(
00:36:40 <Gonozal_VIII> that's kind of like dancing with a wheelchair
00:36:57 <mikl> Bjarni: oh - damn crackers...
00:37:23 <Bjarni> we never figured out who did it
00:37:49 <Bjarni> so you are all suspects
00:38:24 <glx> I can't (I didn't even know about OTTD at that time)
00:38:39 <mikl> joy is to post false statements on IRC
00:38:40 <orudge> woo, I may be working at Apple next summer :D
00:38:45 <Bjarni> mikl: you are in the clear... you wouldn't be able to log in even if it didn't have a password :P
00:38:58 <Sacro> i might do GSOC over summer
00:39:06 <Bjarni> sounds like something exploded outside
00:39:32 * mikl skulks around Bjarnis house
00:39:46 <mikl> or is it skulks around around?
00:41:16 <Gonozal_VIII> it was a nuclear bomb, you are dead now... you've gone to hell, you have to stay in this channel forever and look at goatse links and you can never log out
00:41:41 <Bjarni> if this was hell then I wouldn't be op
00:41:52 <Bjarni> then I had to decide who to kick
00:41:55 <Bjarni> which can be a real pain
00:41:58 <orudge> Born_Acorn released the virus
00:42:21 <Bjarni> was it also Born_Acorn who placed a bomb on the school last week?
00:42:38 *** AntB is now known as Guest281
00:42:44 <mikl> good thing one isn't Born_Acorn
00:43:18 <mikl> I suppose it's better to be a crazy foo than to be a crazy bar
00:43:49 <mikl> man, I really should go sleep before I get eaten by a raging mob
00:44:22 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm bed... i have to get up in 5h...
00:44:36 <Bjarni> mikl: I have a tip for you then.... stay up
00:44:48 <Bjarni> so sleep during the day
00:45:04 <mikl> I would. No matter what I do, I'll be tired for work tomorrow
00:45:23 <Bjarni> do you operate chainsaws and stuff?
00:45:49 <Bjarni> chainsaws are more fun if you are sleepy
00:45:53 <Bjarni> for the rest of us that is
00:46:25 <mikl> and I have to install the latest version of Microsoft Navision... Oh joy
00:46:55 <AntB> its microsoft, nuff said :D
00:47:14 <mikl> I think the new official name is Microsoft Business Solutions NAV 5.0
00:47:34 <Gonozal_VIII> bed... night all
00:47:56 <mikl> my employer has chosen it for our finances, sadly
00:48:30 <Bjarni> what did you do to make him so upset with you?
00:49:08 <mikl> It's actually not bad...
00:49:24 <mikl> I haven't seen the new version yet, though
00:49:46 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:49:54 <glx> well, knowing MS, it can be worse than the previous one ;)
00:50:05 <mikl> it's mainly a glorified spreadsheet
00:50:33 <mikl> but the bugs I've found in a few years of use are only on nuisance-level
00:50:53 <mikl> like the binding of the same accelerator-key for different purposes
00:51:19 <mikl> in some windows, Alt-N means two different things at once
00:51:52 <Bjarni> and their beta testers didn't figure this out?
00:52:43 <mikl> Bjarni: apparently not. And it did not get fixed in SP1 or SP2
00:52:56 <mikl> we hope it's been done in 5.0
00:53:11 <mikl> we reported it to our "partner"
00:53:41 <mikl> i.e. Microsofts partners that handles customers for them and charges an extortionate amount of money for it
00:54:09 <glx> and don't do anything escept taking money :)
00:54:45 <mikl> the only fix is to delete your preferences file...
00:55:06 <mikl> which means you'll have to set up all your personal config once over
00:56:00 <mikl> "Hmm, what if we made the sidebar super wide - like 300% the window size - wouldn't that be fun?"
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01:26:26 * orudge closes Sacro's connection remotely
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01:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... why is there a "for (;;)" in IsRoadAllowedHere (town_cmd.cpp around line 713)
01:33:38 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: turing completeness testing
01:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> but "for" does not indicate turing completeness, usually you need "while" for that
01:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> of course in the case of C, "for" is simulated with "while"
01:36:14 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: it's claimed that some compilers generate faster code with "for(;;)" than "while(1)"
01:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> in theoretical computer science, a "for-language" can describe primitive-recursive functions, a "while-language" can describe partial-recursive functions
01:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> the latter ones are turing complete
01:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that in theoretical computer science, "recursive functions" are partial-recursive functions that terminate on all inputs
01:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: that function also uses a goto
01:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i can see absolutely no reason for the loop...
01:39:01 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: let me guess: it was that way in the original game.
01:39:48 <ln-> Sacro: with setjmp/longjmp you can achieve even more bizarre code.
01:39:57 <Sacro> ln-: i don't think C# allows that
01:40:04 <Sacro> it makes me use /unsafe on the compiler :(
01:41:10 <glx> ln-: we removed most setjmp/longjmp
01:41:24 <glx> the remaining are needed by libpng
01:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... in GrowTownInTile, line 993, why is there an unconditional LevelTownLand(tile) before placing a road?
01:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> removing that produces much nicer towns...
01:49:18 <ln-> Sacro: you aren't using Microsoft-only languages, are you?
01:49:34 <Sacro> actually, no, all my code so far compiles using Mono
01:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i can't seem to access grfcrawler...
01:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> orudge is sitting on the cable i assume :p
02:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> everything seems extremely slow...
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03:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... this is weird...
03:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i loaded PBI and the Brick Chain as industry grf
03:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> and DBSetXL with the ECS Extension
03:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> this added Lumber and Gravel to the refit options for the low side wagon
03:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> but there is no way to transport clay...
03:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> <sarcasm>I DEMAND A FIX FOR THIS IMMEDIATELY</sarcasm>
03:31:30 <Tefad_> i don't think ECS and PBI mods play together
03:32:00 <Tefad_> you need DBSetXL with PBI extension ; )
03:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not an ECS grf, it's the grf that adds ECS goods to the refit options of DBSetXL
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13:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i can't get warm with UKRS...
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14:16:55 <BiA|pavel-css> english please :)
14:20:04 <De_Ghost> hey uatx should mean micro atx right
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14:23:13 <De_Ghost> would a micro atx board fit in a normal atx slot?
14:24:40 <De_Ghost> i mean there is usally screw holes right?
14:24:51 <glx> everything smaller than ATX should fit in ATX
14:26:21 <glx> but of course you may have problems with PSU and CPU positioning ;)
14:26:40 <De_Ghost> i don't think so as long as there is screw holes
14:27:00 <HerzogDeXtEr> there shouldnt be a problem with the cpu
14:27:34 <glx> some cases are badly designed, but it's very rare
14:28:12 <HerzogDeXtEr> yeah oki :) in normal cirumstances it should work :)
14:29:09 <HerzogDeXtEr> but why do you want a µATX board?
14:34:36 <De_Ghost> ahh i'll find a case later
14:34:40 <De_Ghost> let me grab all my parts :D
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15:21:16 * Belugas just had the occasion to browse forums. Why does it have to be so freakingly depressing???
15:24:01 <Belugas> stupid requests, stupid interventions, narrow minds etc etc etc...
15:24:45 <Belugas> I have not enjoyed a topic for a long time
15:26:13 * frosch123 recently enjoyed a topic in the german forums, when there were 10 narrow minds discussing.
15:26:56 * frosch123 thinks OTTD/TTDP wars in german forum are art
15:27:34 <Belugas> the war is raging even out of the tt-forums??? wow!
15:28:09 <frosch123> You have luck, there are mainly people, who cannot speak english well enough.
15:29:33 <frosch123> You know MB. In the german forums there are at least 3 of that kind.
15:29:58 <Belugas> but do they enjoy the war?
15:30:10 <Belugas> like... giving good arguments?
15:30:16 <frosch123> Nearly noone there has played both games.
15:30:33 <Belugas> that's a bad situation indeed :)
15:30:52 <frosch123> So if the other party has a nice feature, the other say, it is not needed, or they cannot immagine that it may be useful.
15:32:29 <frosch123> Oh, I forgot the MiniIn and the ChrisIn parties, which throw their non-trunk features into the discussion :)
15:32:58 <Belugas> surely, i would not want to be even near them :D
15:33:05 <Belugas> both sides, in fact...
15:35:09 <frosch123> Well I would never have a heart to join the discussion, because it would be some kind of damaging a artwork.
15:35:12 <Belugas> that's anyway a big problem with these wars: it's always a matter of personnal taste. This feature is good, this one is useless etc etc...
15:36:23 <frosch123> If you take a look at the server list. There is exaktly one MiniIn server :) There were even attemps of a OTTD vs. MiniIn war.
15:38:50 <Belugas> MiniIN has been the seed of so many confusion...
15:39:16 <Belugas> some said it was a lab for devs to see how new features would behave, before trunk inclusion
15:40:39 <glx> some says the same about ChrisIN
15:41:58 <Belugas> it's even not on svn !!!
15:45:56 * frosch123 thinks that is caused by the "added to trunkXXX" behind a lot of patches in the first post of the ChrisIn topic
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15:48:23 <LordAzamath> anyone in a mood for a mp game?
15:49:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
15:53:26 <Belugas> LordAzamath, do not count me in. My boss will crucify me
15:56:45 <Bjarni> what are you guys talking about?
15:56:53 <Bjarni> going against the Romans?
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16:01:25 <BiA|pavel-css> <LordAzamath> anyone in a mood for a mp game? --- hmm? :)
16:01:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i opened my curtains and shutters today to see how those "trees" look in rl... but they don't look like the .grf trees at all, most of them don't have any of that green stuff on them...
16:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean the world is not realistic enough? :p
16:02:35 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, lots of bugs!
16:03:18 <BiA|pavel-css> primary under kitchen's sink :)
16:03:33 * BiA|pavel-css has never seen any
16:03:46 <BiA|pavel-css> but in every film, there are some :)
16:04:04 <Gonozal_VIII> you have to look faster
16:04:32 <LordAzamath> pavel, which server?
16:04:46 <LordAzamath> and any other guys?
16:04:46 <Gonozal_VIII> that's like most people never see the guy little guy that lives in your fridge and switches the light on when you open the doof
16:05:14 <BiA|pavel-css> LordAzamath: sooo let's play in same company and rule the map/others? :P
16:05:40 <LordAzamath> I'll go look for a good fine server
16:05:46 <BiA|pavel-css> i can't create server since it's giving an error when sameone attempt to join :(
16:06:12 *** BiA|pavel-css is now known as pavel1269
16:08:12 * pavel1269 is donwloading beta1
16:08:23 <LordAzamath> what about dihedral's fair play one? I'll go check out how far are the
16:08:59 <Gonozal_VIII> i only play nightlies with tons of newgrf :-)
16:09:47 <LordAzamath> Pavel, it's basically empty
16:10:02 <pavel1269> well, same here, but if i have oportunity i accept :)
16:10:09 <pavel1269> LordAzamath: so, we are in? :)
16:10:30 <LordAzamath> btw can you access the server dihedral fair play one
16:10:38 <LordAzamath> I mean do you have grfs?
16:12:23 <pavel1269> i don't see any password there :)
16:13:31 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm he uses grfs without name
16:13:58 <LordAzamath> download #openttdcoop grf pack
16:14:12 <LordAzamath> I have this and can do everything there :D
16:14:35 <pavel1269> i copyed all my grfs and only half of them :)
16:15:22 <LordAzamath> btw, the company name is Eesti Raudtee
16:15:39 <LordAzamath> and join #openttdfairplay on irc too
16:15:48 * LordAzamath is searching far a link
16:15:50 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: grf without name means you miss them
16:16:21 <Gonozal_VIII> normally i see the names of the missing ones
16:16:46 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: with no grf, i saw them
16:17:04 <Gonozal_VIII> but there are some where i only see id and md5sum
16:17:53 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
16:18:14 <Gonozal_VIII> the first, the last and second to last ad the one after north american roads set
16:19:12 <pavel1269> lol, my grf pack is now 55MB big
16:20:10 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm now the names are there
16:23:37 <Belugas> i really hope you willnot find a bug and ask us to tack it with a savegame :S
16:26:40 <Gonozal_VIII> btw... i started to modify some grfs yesterday.. i wondered, how are the pcx files with the blue spritenumbers and such generated?
16:27:43 <Gonozal_VIII> i put the numbers there manually but that doesn't seem to be the right way
16:28:49 <Belugas> those are generated by grfcodec upon decoding
16:28:51 <glx> blue numbers in pcx are just cosmetic
16:29:20 <Belugas> specifying those numbers on pcx file is useless. it is defined by the position on the nfo file
16:29:37 <Belugas> or the number of the nfo line, rather...
16:29:54 <glx> yes you can use sprite x in line y if you want :)
16:29:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i noticed that because i edited the nfo files too...
16:31:07 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm i must do something wrong with the encoding
16:31:23 <pavel1269> Belugas: if i found a bug, i will delete that save :)
16:33:42 <Gonozal_VIII> the files before encoding shouldn't be the same as after decoding?
16:34:01 <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, depends if you modidied it ;)
16:36:27 <Gonozal_VIII> so... seperate file for every sprite would be the normal way to go?
16:37:48 <Belugas> it's up to you to decide
16:37:51 <glx> you can do it if you want :)
16:38:08 <Belugas> but for sure, the decoding will make it one file only
16:38:43 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm decoding adds the numbers... so all the work i did yesterday with adding numbers..... lalalala
16:40:20 <Belugas> it's better to have a good maintained nfo source file
16:40:26 <Belugas> and always work with this one
16:40:32 <Belugas> not the generated one ;)
16:41:01 <glx> yes working in your own commented nfo is easier
16:41:09 <Gonozal_VIII> there's something else for that too :O
16:42:05 <Belugas> don't rely on tools when a good text editor does the job even better ;)
16:42:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i used notepad... but on the file that starts with: // Automatically generated by GRFCODEC. Do not modify!
16:43:23 <Gonozal_VIII> i noticed that^^
16:43:33 <glx> but you can then add your own comments in your nfo
16:43:37 <Gonozal_VIII> encode didn't work after i removed those
16:44:38 <glx> and unless you use action 0C they are removed if you encode/decode
16:45:10 <Gonozal_VIII> actions are scary
16:45:33 <Gonozal_VIII> but i like action 7 :-)
16:45:49 <glx> 0C "blah" is not the hardest :)
16:46:48 <pavel1269> <Belugas> good pavel, good :D --- :o) ... lol
16:47:44 <Belugas> actions are scary only when you do not know them
16:48:01 <Belugas> taking the time to play with them and you start liking them
16:48:08 <Belugas> to a certain extend, but still :)
16:48:25 <Belugas> the rule is to follow as close as possile the specs
16:48:42 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, it doesn't look too hard with the documentation on the patch wiki
16:49:05 <pavel1269> LordAzamath: what now?
16:49:20 <glx> indeed it's harder for us to implement them in ottd using only the wiki
16:50:14 <LordAzamath> I think that we sh....Ooohh..What is that glistning in the ground? a patch
16:53:00 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm the stuff in action c could also be done with action 7...
16:53:10 <pavel1269> need help :( with setting my server, it just don't work in almost al ways :)
16:53:47 <pavel1269> i have public ip, i forwarded 3979 to my pc
16:54:15 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: I don't think so, action 7 is skip if, action C does nothing
16:54:35 <pavel1269> and noone can't join him, its giving some error which i am trying to find atm
16:55:00 <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
16:55:30 <Gonozal_VIII> you can choose the if as something that is always true
16:55:31 <pavel1269> so forwarding 3978 might help? :)
16:55:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11575 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1502]: widget numbers of StationViewWindow were incorrect at some places
16:55:55 <glx> not needed, master server see it :)
16:56:12 <pavel1269> so why noone can't join or see it
16:56:59 <pavel1269> but openttd.org see my server :)
16:57:00 <Belugas> i know why, pavel1269 : too many grfs ;)
16:57:01 <glx> from outside or from lan ?
16:57:16 <pavel1269> glx: from lan it work
16:57:57 <pavel1269> LordAzamath can't :)
16:58:11 <pavel1269> and thats worse ... someone can, someone can't
16:58:24 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: try to connect ... it will give some wierid error
16:58:38 <Gonozal_VIII> can't version mismatch
16:58:58 <glx> you formarded UDP and TCP?
16:59:01 <Gonozal_VIII> don't have beta only nightlies
16:59:30 <pavel1269> glx: i forwarded only 3979, which others do i have to?
16:59:49 <Gonozal_VIII> but i can see it without problems... temperate 128^2 czech, jan 1920....
17:00:40 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:01:13 <pavel1269> how i choose which? there is only Port No.
17:01:37 <Gonozal_VIII> udp and tcp together is default setting on my router
17:01:48 *** NarkSlap has joined #openttd
17:02:07 <glx> but it's strange MS see it while I can't
17:02:16 <pavel1269> just because i cant choose tcp/udp
17:02:44 <pavel1269> ms, you mean microsoft?
17:03:29 <pavel1269> i have 3:2 odds that you will see server and 1:(unlimited) to connect :(
17:04:30 <pavel1269> glx: should i try to forward all ports? if it should help?
17:04:54 <glx> hmm high ping (more than 90ms) but should not be a problem
17:05:08 <pavel1269> hmm, but i allower openttd
17:05:24 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid windows firewall asks again everytime i upgrade to a new nightly
17:05:35 <pavel1269> that's pernamently off
17:05:45 <pavel1269> glx: can you see me now?
17:06:55 <pavel1269> gonna try forward all ports except www,ftp and telnet
17:07:39 <glx> but if MS can see it, everybody should
17:07:55 <pavel1269> i forwarded all ports
17:08:05 <Gonozal_VIII> other ports shouldn't be a problem
17:08:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11576 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: enumerize and comment station GUI
17:08:40 <pavel1269> weird things ask for wieirds solutions :)
17:09:16 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
17:10:13 <pavel1269> so ... -> router(nat) - nothink -> fw - nothink -> openttd error :)
17:10:33 <glx> maybe an internet problem :)
17:10:40 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm sometimes i had to establish a hamachi connection to a friend, only for some seconds, to get openttd to find him... but that didn't happen since long ago...
17:11:01 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: same, we play over hamachi
17:12:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i would ask if you forward the hamachi ports... but since you forward all ports now...
17:13:16 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: i dont have forwarded hamachi ports
17:13:38 <Gonozal_VIII> but the situation is not very normal now
17:16:01 <Rubidium> about "when the MS can see it, everybody should": this does not hold when the server specifically drops traffic from your range
17:18:30 <pavel1269> 5big thanks to man who find my problem :)
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17:19:22 <Gonozal_VIII> your problem is that nobody can connect to your server :-)
17:20:33 <pavel1269> *5big thanks to man who find solution of my problem :)
17:27:03 <pavel1269> |Jeroen|: almost! :P
17:27:55 <Gonozal_VIII> how far are you away from the austrian border?
17:28:26 <pavel1269> <- Brno, Czech republic
17:29:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i know that name but i don't know where that is exactly
17:30:23 <pavel1269> GPS on map told me that 44km :)
17:30:39 <pavel1269> what it tell to you? :)
17:30:40 <Gonozal_VIII> you could supply me with cheap czech stuff :D
17:31:07 <Gonozal_VIII> much cheaper than here
17:31:24 <pavel1269> you must be richier
17:31:48 <Bjarni> <pavel1269> you must be richier <-- that's a myth
17:32:22 <Bjarni> it's not like we are way richer in the west if you consider the price for stuff in stores and so on
17:32:44 <Bjarni> not to mention that I bet your current month income is higher than mine :(
17:33:23 <Bjarni> in fact I'm pretty sure you get more money than me
17:33:48 <Gonozal_VIII> i thought you drive trains
17:34:26 <pavel1269> from part time jobs i get 1500kc =~ 80$
17:34:55 <pavel1269> and 1/3 go to internet because parents said if i want it i must pay it :(
17:36:16 <Bjarni> railroad operation is surprisingly enough a cheap hobby if you do it right. There is nowhere else that you can do anything like it without paying a fortune for fuel
17:37:10 <pavel1269> just, help me with that problem :(
17:40:21 <Bjarni> I stopped responding to helping people on the internet with their issues
17:47:27 <Gonozal_VIII> the weird message i get when trying to join is "wrong password"
17:49:43 <pavel1269> i guess ... glx have that problem on his machine :D
17:50:03 <glx> no the server is offline for me
17:50:41 <Gonozal_VIII> i can join as spectator or in the existing company... works without problems
17:51:08 <pavel1269> try to create your company :)
17:51:11 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't try to crea...
17:51:18 <pavel1269> i think it will ... :/
17:52:47 <pavel1269> glx: you are not alone, one of my friends cant joint too
17:52:50 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't do anything special
17:53:10 <pavel1269> and one friend is getting wierid error ...
17:53:40 * pavel1269 searching chat history
17:55:43 <pavel1269> 1) server didnt anser to reques
17:55:49 <Gonozal_VIII> btw 1920 doesn't make sense without grfs
17:55:58 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: just trying
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18:04:00 <Gonozal_VIII> the server didn't answer the request^^
18:04:33 <Gonozal_VIII> but i still see it
18:04:42 <Gonozal_VIII> and the companies... but without names
18:05:54 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm there was a new game for some seconds and now i can't see the server anymore
18:06:31 <Gonozal_VIII> aaah different server name
18:07:06 <pavel1269> MS cant see me now ...
18:07:17 <pavel1269> FW off, all port forwarded
18:07:49 <Gonozal_VIII> i found it without ip
18:08:21 <pavel1269> i am not using dedicated
18:08:47 <Gonozal_VIII> advertise and dedicated is something completely different
18:10:12 <Gonozal_VIII> you can choose connection LAN/Internet or Internet(advertise)
18:11:08 <Gonozal_VIII> but i find it with find server
18:12:01 <pavel1269> <- still using advertise ... but MS cant see me now? :/
18:12:23 <glx> that's why I don't even see the ip in the list
18:14:40 <pavel1269> any idea why it is broken more on fresh install? :)
18:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> most likely, you drop UDP packages
18:16:46 <glx> but not all as it worked before
18:16:55 <glx> looks like a network issue
18:17:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm currently on his server without problems
18:21:54 <pavel1269> :-O svchost.exe error
18:22:12 <pavel1269> ahh, nothink, jsut my pc collapsing :)
18:23:12 <glx> svchost.exe manages the network :)
18:23:34 <Gonozal_VIII> windows shuts down when svchost is terminated
18:23:57 <pavel1269> who terminate me? :D
18:24:12 <Gonozal_VIII> blaster does that :-)
18:24:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess... somewhere...
18:24:56 <Gonozal_VIII> i had mine when it was fresh :D
18:25:05 <Prof_Frink> Good ol' shutdown -a
18:25:26 <glx> my brother got it while downloading antivirus and firewall
18:25:27 <Gonozal_VIII> took me some.. lots.. of reboots to find that information
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18:26:01 <pavel1269> any idea or you are just kidding of me?
18:28:37 <Gonozal_VIII> if you did windows update somewhen in the last years it shouldn't be blaster
18:29:03 <pavel1269> 2years no update :)
18:29:21 <glx> updates are vital for windows
18:29:46 <pavel1269> i know my win is broken but i have no hope it will repair it :)
18:29:56 <glx> even non genuine windows can be updated (at least security updates)
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18:30:29 <pavel1269> glx: so i should try it?
18:31:12 <Ikarus-70> where can I find the words which were written here yesterday?
18:31:25 <Gonozal_VIII> just don't install the genuine advantage notification thingy...
18:31:48 <pavel1269> <- brb in year ....
18:32:43 <pavel1269> lol ms didnt know about me, but my server sended to it sth when i exited :)
18:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... i have a truck waiting in front of a full station, and it cannot turn around, even if i tell it to...
18:33:15 <Gonozal_VIII> why would anyone want to install that anyways? if you have a licenced copy it doesn't do anything and if you don't, you don't want to have a thing that bugs you to get a licence all the time
18:33:43 <Gonozal_VIII> there are some situations where they can't turn around
18:33:47 <pavel1269> automatic updates??
18:34:48 <Gonozal_VIII> set them to inform you of updates but not install them automatically
18:35:39 <Gonozal_VIII> but it also works that way without licence... they don't seem to care much
18:35:56 <pavel1269> they care, but its strategical
18:36:14 <pavel1269> you used to do things at win, and at work you must have licensed
18:36:44 <Gonozal_VIII> people that don't pay for windows are better for them than people that don't pay for linux
18:36:46 <Ikarus-70> I cant scroll down on this page
18:37:10 <Gonozal_VIII> use the other link
18:38:10 <pavel1269> can i force win to update? :P
18:38:42 <Ikarus-70> can someone explain to me what "blocked intertubes" are?
18:38:52 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i think the update page only works with licence, without that you can only wait for automatic update
18:39:01 <Ikarus-70> It seems to make my multi games slow
18:39:32 <Ikarus-70> I was told this here yesterday as I had a problem with ottd
18:40:00 <SmatZ> [19:38:44] <Ikarus-70> can someone explain to me what "blocked intertubes" are?
18:40:48 <SmatZ> Ikarus-70: errr ... like the network is under too heavy load so it cannot handle your traffic
18:41:20 <Ikarus-70> can I do something to cure this problem?
18:41:38 <pavel1269> get better server/ internet connection?
18:41:47 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, block access to p0rn servers
18:42:05 <Ikarus-70> isnt DSL2000 not good enough?
18:42:13 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: yeah, i must w8 :(
18:42:33 <pavel1269> or .. i think so :)
18:42:36 <SmatZ> Ikarus-70: maybe someone was making fun of you
18:42:51 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on how many other people are on that connection and what they/you do
18:43:15 <Ikarus-70> I had lags on a ottd server and the other players had not.
18:43:24 <Ikarus-70> I have this problem often
18:43:36 <glx> browsing is very slow for me right now because my upload is too high
18:43:55 <SmatZ> Ikarus-70: maybe you were playing on too distant server where others have better connection
18:44:17 <Gonozal_VIII> distance doesn't matter much
18:44:38 <Gonozal_VIII> unless it's a server on the moon or something...
18:44:39 <pavel1269> what if server is on mars?
18:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is getting even more weird... my plastic loading trucks don't load any plastic
18:45:05 <Gonozal_VIII> don't play toyland to mars grf then!
18:45:50 <Gonozal_VIII> is there plastic at the station? do you supply the industry? are they refittet to plastic?^^
18:46:19 <pavel1269> my problem is more interesting :)
18:46:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> the fuel oil trucks do load stuff from that same station
18:47:05 <Gonozal_VIII> plastic producing tiles in the catchment area?
18:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> there was never a differentiation on what tiles produce anything
18:48:15 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i thought too but it could be possible...
18:49:09 <Gonozal_VIII> waaaaait a minute
18:50:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i think it can only produce one product at a time :-)
18:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> indeed, increasing catchment area helped
18:51:03 <Gonozal_VIII> but i read about some industry that only produces one product somewhere
18:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> but there is absolutely no indication of that anywhere...
18:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> now it's getting even more weird... i got 1000 liter of plastic, but nothing more...
18:53:44 <Gonozal_VIII> back to the one product theory... better rating there?
18:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the algorithm that assignes loading slots is... suboptimal...
18:54:19 <pavel1269> it looks now like, if i turn off FW, MS dont see me ... lol!
18:54:38 <Gonozal_VIII> and the algorithm that assignes loading slots is... suboptimal... <-- what do you mean? always worked fine for me
18:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> it often sends trucks to the full station, when there are free slots at the other station...
18:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it does not always take the nearest slot
18:55:57 <Gonozal_VIII> there are some tricks to let them load better
18:56:05 <Gonozal_VIII> i tried around a lot
18:56:07 <pavel1269> ms cant find me now anyway
18:56:55 <Gonozal_VIII> there has to be a possibility to enter the stations from both sides... and the ways have to be different length
18:57:12 <Gonozal_VIII> if they are symmetrical, they will always choose the same
18:57:48 <pavel1269> :-/ now wait and hope :(
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19:01:00 <Gonozal_VIII> that should balance them well
19:01:30 <Gonozal_VIII> they will use all 12 bays :-)
19:14:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11577 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: invalidate 'list trains/roadvehs/ships/planes' widgets when station part is added/removed
19:16:18 <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: at least 2 but propertly, not all to one :)
19:17:26 <pavel1269> that, vehicles will not go all to one but at least to your two ways :)
19:18:23 <Gonozal_VIII> if multiple drive through stops are connected after one another, they will always stop at the last possibility not the first
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19:24:02 <pavel1269> something is broken ... no sound at all :(
19:24:17 <pavel1269> thats that svchost.exe i guess :)
19:25:53 <Gonozal_VIII> oh and look at the trees in my screenshot... tiny trees :-)
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19:31:38 <BiA|pavel-css> and "smart" win is gonna update :)
19:37:40 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the modification on the stolentrees grf i made yesterday @ belugas
19:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> nice... the plastic production got running properly now...
19:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: the grass looks ugly...
19:40:14 <Gonozal_VIII> that's newterrain
19:40:22 <Gonozal_VIII> no grass on the trees
19:40:36 <Gonozal_VIII> and i like it :-)
19:42:14 <hylje> the grass needs a larger texture
19:42:30 <Gonozal_VIII> it loops every tile...
19:42:46 <hylje> the old grass loops well
19:43:22 <Gonozal_VIII> but i see what you mean
19:43:35 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe that will be my next modification...
19:44:40 <hylje> its harder than it looks
19:45:00 <hylje> and besides, a more versatile grass texture (from the behalf of the engine) wouldnt be all bad either!
19:45:16 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. i can't do that
19:47:52 * Belugas would like very much hylje to show us his talents ^_^
19:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> it shouldn't be too hard to get a different grass texture for adjacent tiles
19:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> based on x%2 and y%2 (or possibly (x+y)%4)
19:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a similar algorithm for the pylon positioning
19:50:33 <Gonozal_VIII> would be nice for rocks too...
19:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> random is more difficult, because you have to make all tiles fit
19:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> with the modulo calculation, you can be sure which tiles are next to which
19:51:06 <Gonozal_VIII> different rocks with grass-rock transition if there is grass or full rock tile if there is another rock
19:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> also you don't need to save the random bits
19:51:25 <hylje> spilling types of terrain?
19:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, even the forests and hills in civ 1 did that... it shouldn't be very hard
19:52:44 <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: one wouldnt need to save the texture bits
19:52:55 <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: it could very well be generated when one sees it :O
19:52:56 <Belugas> right now, there is no code that allows to specify a different kind of grass tile
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19:53:49 <Belugas> i don't know how difficult it wold be do to so, not in position to verify
19:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the first suggestion would be the easiest, have 4 different grass sprites, and choose them depending on x%2 and y%2
19:55:06 <Gonozal_VIII> a grf would need an action 7 that checks for adjecent tile type
19:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> i wouldn't necessarily implement that in grf...
19:55:48 <Gonozal_VIII> (i like action 7, that's the only one i read much about)
19:56:02 <Belugas> action 7? not related at all, sorry to say
19:56:17 <Belugas> if you want grass tile to be loadable, you need something else
19:56:27 <Belugas> like maybe actions 1,2,3
19:56:32 <Gonozal_VIII> well it can skip the grass-rock transition sprite if there is no rock
19:56:35 <Belugas> althougn there is no specs at all for that
19:56:44 <Belugas> maybe a new action A...
19:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> if i understood stuff right, action 7/9 decide on static information on grf load if something is to be skipped or not...
19:57:47 <Belugas> and the grass tile willhave to be assigned at generation, otherwise, pretty much screwed with over calculatin on each tile loop...
19:57:50 <Gonozal_VIII> static? ok.. bad thing then
19:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean like wether "wagonspeed limits" is on, and then load additional wagons
19:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> or skip them, if it's off
19:59:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i used it in the modification i did to the water on map edges grf to skip newwater sprites if newwater isn't loaded
19:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> or you could do stuff like the railway fences, i believe their position is stored in the map
19:59:48 <Belugas> [15:01] <Eddi|zuHause2> i wouldn't necessarily implement that in grf... <--- maybe, maybe not. it depends...
20:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you can calculate the grass layout during the tile loop
20:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then use the stored layout for display
20:01:14 <Belugas> [15:06] <Eddi|zuHause2> so you can calculate the grass layout during the tile loop <--- beurk :(
20:01:28 <Belugas> i fear may too much calculations
20:01:33 <Gonozal_VIII> tiles could stay rock/grass/hill even if you bulldoze them or build something else there or flood them... therefore the sprites will stay the same through the game
20:01:34 <Belugas> making system crawling
20:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> why? you calculate grass growth and stuff there anyway
20:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not much more to calculate
20:02:03 <Belugas> therefor, static data, like forest/desert stuff
20:02:25 <Belugas> with tha amont of tiles, yes, it is a lot more...
20:02:37 <Belugas> well... that's my opinion anyway...
20:02:42 <Belugas> no hard data yet to prove it
20:03:13 <Belugas> [15:07] <Eddi|zuHause2> why? you calculate grass growth and stuff there anyway <--- grass growth? only from bare land to grass, that's it
20:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i think you can make it in a way that the effect is insignificant
20:03:26 <Belugas> and it's not on every tile
20:03:33 <Belugas> on ly those that require it
20:03:43 <Belugas> wel... once more, i think...
20:03:55 <Belugas> no hard evidence, shoul I repeat myself...
20:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly, grass does not constantly need to change, this can most likely be handled for growing grass
20:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then stays that way, unless that or a neighbouring tile is changed
20:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> which you can handle in the command that changes it
20:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. if you clear a tile, you walk through the adjacent tiles
20:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you grow a grass tile, you walk through adjacent tiles
20:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> there shouldn't be much more than that needed
20:06:35 <Gonozal_VIII> how does the game know that a grass tile needs growing?
20:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a counter
20:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> stored in the tile
20:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> decreased on each tile loop
20:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> if it hits 0, the next growth step is reached
20:07:09 <Gonozal_VIII> it ignores all tiles that have counter on 0?
20:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it ignores all tiles that are fully grown
20:08:09 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't have the counter then?
20:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> like: "if (not fully grown) { if (counter==0) { grow tile, reset counter } else { decrease counter } }"
20:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can find such counters in many different tiles
20:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> like houses under construction
20:11:27 <Belugas> fancy -> "fancying" == good english?
20:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should ask that to a native speaker ;)
20:12:36 * Belugas hopes there would be at least one around...
20:12:49 <Belugas> like a silent Sacro...
20:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: it could very well be generated when one sees it :O <- this needs a O(1) function for random access
20:13:42 <Sacro> Belugas: in what context?
20:14:20 <Sacro> I fancy -> I am fancying
20:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> typical random functions tend to be O(n), where n is the position in the number sequence
20:14:41 <Belugas> like ... working on a layout, and trying to be too picky, too fancy about it
20:14:56 <Belugas> thus fanying over a layout ?
20:15:18 <Sacro> fancying over a layout doesn't make much sense
20:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> fix my bug first ;)
20:15:38 <BiA|pavel-css> my is speacial :)
20:16:22 <Belugas> trying to make too many non-important and unnecessary requests on the layout
20:16:26 <Gonozal_VIII> his server only works for me
20:16:30 <Belugas> want a really shorter term
20:16:58 <Sacro> you could fancy one layout over another
20:17:01 <BiA|pavel-css> SmatZ: my pc is now slow ... and is trying to opne web browser for 2mins, momtnt
20:17:02 * Belugas is at work and does not give too much importance about a OTTD server...
20:17:11 <Sacro> but hmm, we tend to use "fancy" in a sexual kind of way
20:17:13 <Belugas> ok, Sacro, not too bad
20:17:33 <Belugas> hem... indeed, not too work related hehee
20:19:14 <Belugas> BiA|pavel-css, don't wnat to be rude, but if it was a bug of OTTD, everyone would be on same situation. So I suggest checking every network component on your system
20:19:30 <BiA|pavel-css> Belugas: i did :(
20:19:41 <BiA|pavel-css> router(nat),FW ...
20:19:46 <Belugas> i agree it's not normal, but the answer can only come from your system
20:19:59 <BiA|pavel-css> with this i must agree :(
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21:34:50 <Wolf01> uhm, i noticed that somebody played again with the transparencies
21:36:22 <Wolf01> now i must set all the transparencies by hand to toggle them all
21:38:33 <SmatZ> Wolf01: when did it change?
21:39:05 <Wolf01> ah, i don't know.. i just updated the nightly after some time
21:39:21 <Wolf01> last time the transparency was not saved between games
21:40:52 <Wolf01> if somebody wants saved transparencies well, no problem, but make it a patch setting, or like my patch, with a widget on the transparency toolbar
22:19:29 <Bjarni> fjb: what do you mean by that word anyway?
22:19:41 <Bjarni> you use it whenever you enter the channel
22:19:56 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a form of morning
22:19:58 <Bjarni> yet I know it as "good morning"
22:20:03 <fjb> It is the usual greeting in northern germany.
22:20:05 <Bjarni> and it's not morning right now
22:20:18 <fjb> It is used everytime of the day.
22:20:44 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. don't expect rational thought in northern germany :-)
22:20:50 <Bjarni> <fjb> It is the usual greeting in northern germany. <-- interesting... in Denmark it's used only in southern Jylland
22:21:19 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> well.. don't expect rational thought in [...] germany :-) <-- I knew that
22:21:25 <fjb> Southern Denmark begins where northern Germany ends...
22:22:26 <Bjarni> and I know that the current border is from 1920. We got some of the land back that you stole in 1864.
22:22:43 <Bjarni> and surprisingly we didn't get any after WW2
22:22:56 <fjb> Only the winners got some land...
22:23:19 <Bjarni> you win the war in 1864 and take our land. You lose in 1945 and we get 3 used locomotives
22:23:31 <Bjarni> talk about being fair :P
22:23:43 <fjb> Don't speak bad about german locomotives.
22:24:04 <fjb> A kingdom for a german locomotive.
22:24:09 <Bjarni> in fact those 3 locomotives wasn't really war compensation... it was more like they remained here when the Germans moved out
22:24:39 <fjb> Norway got some used airplanes.
22:24:40 <Bjarni> well... it was actually 4 but the last one was a switching engine that was beyond repair
22:25:03 <Bjarni> I'm not really sure if we should count that one
22:25:31 <fjb> Bjarni: I thought you would be happy about every locomotive.
22:27:29 <Bjarni> that was the German name of the 3 operational locomotives left behind
22:27:32 <fjb> And we never got any compensations for what the wikings did to our towns.
22:27:56 <Bjarni> and we never got compensation for what the Hansa union did to us
22:28:05 <fjb> BR 38 was a good locomotive, it was the last steam locomotiver used by the DB.
22:28:44 <Bjarni> yeah... they were good but for some reason they were all scrapped.
22:28:59 <Bjarni> might be that somebody in DSB didn't like the Germans
22:29:44 <fjb> Oh, sorry, BR 23 was the last one used. But BR 38 was good too. A prussian design.
22:30:24 <fjb> BR 38 was used all over Europe even before WWII
22:30:45 <Bjarni> Belgium got 16 BR 50. We bought 12 of them and used them for heavy freight
22:31:07 <Bjarni> but don't ask me why DSB decided to change the boiler pressure from 16 to 12 kg/cm^2
22:31:17 <fjb> BR 50 was far mor powerfull then BR 38.
22:31:25 <Bjarni> they became less efficient and couldn't pull as much anymore
22:31:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i want back what we lost in ww1 and ww2
22:31:44 <Bjarni> BR 50 is a true heavy freight engine
22:31:48 <fjb> Maybe they didn't have spare parts strong enough for the higher pressure.
22:32:11 <Bjarni> that sounds like a lame reason for the extra coal
22:32:50 <fjb> The boilers of the late German steam engines were high technology at their time.
22:33:29 <Bjarni> if you have a boiler pressure at 10 kg, then you can fill the firebox with coal and still not be able to increase the pressure while driving. If the pressure is 12 then you can keep the pressure and use way less coal even at higher power output
22:33:57 <Bjarni> so the difference between 12 and 16 has to be really big
22:34:05 <fjb> That is why they were designed for the higher pressure.
22:35:06 <Bjarni> in fact the first point of where higher pressure makes less sense is 25 km/cm^2 because at that pressure water can turn into steam without using energy
22:35:29 <Bjarni> at 12 kg/cm^2 1/3 of the energy is used to heat the water and 2/3 is used to change water into steam
22:36:12 <Bjarni> so higher pressure means way less costs for making one litre of steam while one litre of steam at higher pressure can do more work
22:37:45 <Bjarni> ever wondered why steam locomotives tend to have a leaking safety valve while driving? It's because they have their peak efficiency at the point where it starts to open but isn't fully opened yet
22:38:14 <Bjarni> the minor leak wastes less energy than the gain from the high pressure
22:38:48 <Gonozal_VIII> then why not make the safety with a little bit more pressure?
22:39:09 <fjb> The german steam engines were really efficient.
22:39:44 <Bjarni> there is a reason why Germany built steam locomotives for all of Europe
22:40:26 <Gonozal_VIII> you could heat passenger wagons with the steam, then there wouldn't be much wasted :-)
22:40:36 <Gonozal_VIII> at least in winter...
22:40:36 <Bjarni> I learned today (or yesterday) that they even exported steam locomotives to Japan
22:40:48 <fjb> German locomotives got fames when they designed steam engined for the alpine region, where english locomotives where not usable.
22:41:14 <fjb> Yes, just look at the japan set for TTD. :-)
22:41:21 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: err... what?
22:41:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't know that the alpine climate set was that old
22:41:37 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: heating steam is taken directly from the boiler... it's not a waste product
22:42:21 <Gonozal_VIII> after it expanded to normal pressure it's still warm... or not?
22:43:02 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: heating steam was invented to replace the need for burning coal in every car. In case of derailment then only the fireman and driver will be hit by burning coal and there was a fair chance that the wooden cars wouldn't catch fire
22:43:20 <Bjarni> they did that a lot when the burning coal fell out on the wooden floors/walls
22:43:33 <Gonozal_VIII> oh they actually did that?
22:43:54 <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that was my idea just now^^
22:44:24 <Bjarni> imagine your model railroad. Something gets stuck while the locomotive moves on and all the cars falls over on the side
22:44:35 <Bjarni> imagine heating in the cars using coal
22:44:54 <Bjarni> the coal will also fell over and set fire to whatever they touch
22:45:11 <Bjarni> that's not a good thing with cars full of now injured people
22:45:19 <Bjarni> possibly with not quick way out
22:45:22 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm wouldn't touch anything from inside the oven...
22:46:49 <fjb> In the early years of railway the pessengers were locked inside the cars, to prevent them from accidently falling out of the cars.
22:47:12 <Gonozal_VIII> passengers are still locked inside the cars?
22:47:40 <fjb> They are again locked inside the cars. That is new since about two years.
22:48:00 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm no.. that's much longer here
22:48:17 <Gonozal_VIII> second generation of locked cars on my small sideline
22:48:30 <Bjarni> I can't find anything about this online
22:48:40 <Bjarni> I know what it looks like
22:49:03 <fjb> It's really new in germany. And many old locomotives lost their licence to drive on german railroads because they have no ability to lock the passenger cars.
22:49:04 <Bjarni> and I have pictures in my head on what it looks like
22:49:35 <Gonozal_VIII> the most recent wagons have buttons to open the doors
22:50:36 <fjb> But what happens in case of an accident. Look at the the german ICe accident. They had a hard time to free the injured people from the the crashed cars.
22:50:40 <Gonozal_VIII> before that there were/are the cars with a metal lever thingy... you can hear a "click" when it unlocks
22:50:58 <fjb> The fireman were not able to break the windows of the ICE.
22:51:24 <Gonozal_VIII> they should break easily when you hit them on the marked areas
22:51:54 <Gonozal_VIII> and there is always emergency unlock for the doors
22:51:56 <fjb> The new ICe has windows that break when you hit a certain point with a sharp thing.
22:52:34 <fjb> You could only break the windows from the inside, not the outside.
22:52:39 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i think you could pull the rubber out of the frame
22:52:50 <Bjarni> and then it's a diesel :P
22:52:59 <fjb> But the people in the crashed train were barely alive, impossible for them to free themselfs.
22:53:29 <fjb> The ICE has no rubber around the windows, they are glued.
22:53:52 * Bjarni will no longer have ICE in Denmark
22:53:55 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm some train windows have that
22:54:29 <Gonozal_VIII> you can pull that rubbery stuff out and the window falls out
22:54:42 <fjb> Oh, yeah. Diesel locomotives for passenger trains used to have a genrator for heating steam.
22:54:45 <Gonozal_VIII> or in... and smashes you :-)
22:56:17 <Bjarni> <fjb> Oh, yeah. Diesel locomotives for passenger trains used to have a genrator for heating steam. <-- well... the issue was that they had a whole lot of cars designed for heating steam. Then they replaced steam locomotives with diesel and then to ensure that they could still heat the wagons they installed heating steam boilers in them
22:56:36 <Bjarni> but they were semi automatic and used diesel as fuel instead of coal
22:58:20 <fjb> Some used the main diesel engine to generate that steam.
22:58:52 <fjb> So the locomotived hat not the full power when also heating passenger cars.
23:00:29 <Bjarni> I mean how would the engine itself produce steam?
23:00:57 <Gonozal_VIII> you mix water into the diesel :-)
23:01:56 <fjb> Hm, maybe I'm wrong here. I have to read about it again.
23:02:17 <fjb> I guess i mixed it with electric heating.
23:02:40 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't use steam for that^^
23:04:36 <Bjarni> I once saw a picture of one with the safety valve open... looked kind of strange from an electric engine
23:05:05 <Bjarni> yeah... diesel locomotives can supply power for electric heating in the cars
23:05:42 <fjb> I guess every passenger Diesel or electric locomotive build in the 1950s had a heating boiler.
23:06:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i steal power from the railway company :D
23:06:36 <Prof_Frink> I steal rails from the railway company.
23:06:39 <Gonozal_VIII> i unplug my laptop some hours before i take the train home and load it in the train
23:06:59 <Bjarni> I even heard of a diesel locomotive with a prime mover and a heating engine. The sole purpose of the heating engine was to produce power for electric heating. They were refitted into the engines when it turned out that they had problems climbing a certain hill when they had the heat on
23:07:41 <Bjarni> <fjb> I guess every passenger Diesel or electric locomotive build in the 1950s had a heating boiler. <-- no... our diesels lack heating steam and to make it fun we need it next weekend so we actually had to borrow one with heating steam :/
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23:08:30 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> I steal rails from the railway company. <-- not even funny. I know a driver who had to make an emergency stop because somebody had stolen the rail
23:08:40 <Prof_Frink> Pfft, my nuculer train heats itself!
23:08:59 <Bjarni> just one of them and just one but it's still reason enough to make an emergency stop
23:09:39 <Bjarni> but... what group of moronic people goes to a forest to steal a single railroad rail
23:09:44 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I'm not stupid
23:09:53 <Prof_Frink> I steal them from *behind* the train!
23:10:09 <Bjarni> and carries it away though the forest by hand (since there is no access for vehicles other than trains)
23:10:43 <fjb> They sell the steel. You get much money for metal today.
23:10:51 <Gonozal_VIII> the rail wasn't stolen
23:10:51 <Bjarni> I don't know if they ever figured out whatever actually happened to that rail
23:10:58 * Prof_Frink rings up train company
23:11:05 <Gonozal_VIII> there was obviously an ufo on the rails that got blown up
23:11:08 <Bjarni> <fjb> They sell the steel. You get much money for metal today. <-- it was 20+ years ago
23:11:13 <Prof_Frink> "Hi, I hear you need a new rail"
23:11:36 <Prof_Frink> "It just so happens I've come into possession of one *just the right length*"
23:12:05 <Bjarni> funny thing is... the rail was actually broken and it should be replaced so not only did they steal a rail, they stole a broken one
23:12:17 <Bjarni> at least I think it was broken
23:12:30 <fjb> I bet that rail got sold. They are even steeling the cables for the electric power supply of the locomotives. Some thieves died when doing that.
23:12:50 <Bjarni> I can't imagine anybody being stupid enough to carry a whole rail... it had to be one of those that was already broken into pieces
23:13:00 <Prof_Frink> fjb: Well, the cables are generally stolen for the copper
23:13:16 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Just do what everyone else does.
23:13:19 <Gonozal_VIII> there are many metal stealers with darwin awards^^
23:13:23 <Prof_Frink> Blame the bloody students
23:13:32 <Bjarni> <fjb> I bet that rail got sold. They are even steeling the cables for the electric power supply of the locomotives. Some thieves died when doing that. <-- some guy in South Africa died when he tried to steal copper from the catenary while the power was on
23:14:01 <Prof_Frink> Well, he'd be fine until he tried to get down
23:14:05 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Blame the bloody students <-- that would backfire as I'm a student :P
23:14:16 <Prof_Frink> Blame the bloody students from Hull then.
23:14:29 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Well, he'd be fine until he tried to get down <-- the pylon is connected to the ground...
23:14:38 <Gonozal_VIII> they even steal iron columns and get smashed by the roof that was supported by them
23:15:00 <Prof_Frink> Damn you, spoiling all my cunning plans
23:15:09 <Prof_Frink> Maybe it was a plastic pylon.
23:15:09 <Bjarni> it was only a 3kV catenary
23:15:31 <Bjarni> would have been more fun if it were their 50 kV catenary :P
23:15:49 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: I read that as well XD
23:16:00 <Bjarni> Some years ago in South Africa, a driver working an electric train on a early morning trip across the open country south of Johannesburg discovered a burnt body lying across the overhead catenary. The man had been trying to cut the wires so he could steal the valuable copper cable. Of course, he had been fried by the current, which unknown to him, was switched on at 3000 volts DC.
23:19:07 <Prof_Frink> Last time I checked, *voltage* was measured in volts.
23:20:09 <Prof_Frink> Voltage in volts, wattage in watts and ampage in amps :)
23:20:26 <Gonozal_VIII> wattage and ampage? :D
23:21:16 <Prof_Frink> bunnies make observations on what a C2D would be like if it were made of discrete transistors
23:21:43 <Bjarni> it reminds me of a description of a device. It was a closed alu box with a piece of wood in it (cut to fit). A power cable was attached into the wood and the other end was plugged directly into a power outlet.... that was an air cleaner and it was great because it didn't hurt your electric bill at all because it didn't use any volts
23:21:55 <Bjarni> but it cleaned the air in the entire room in just a few minutes
23:22:46 <Gonozal_VIII> i read that everyday :-)
23:23:42 <Bjarni> On day while working a train into a station, I saw two East Indian gentlemen on the platform with an large floor rug stretched out between them. They were beating the rug with a wooden stick. When I'd stopped in the station, I asked them, "What's the matter fellas, won't it start?" Contribution sent in by Steve Tammy, January 2001.
23:23:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i have my own system
23:24:14 <Gonozal_VIII> (don't click on "Alle")
23:24:36 <Gonozal_VIII> it opens every link
23:25:03 <Prof_Frink> Oh, now you tell me
23:25:16 <Gonozal_VIII> could cause problems if your browser is not set to open every link in a tab...
23:25:39 <Bjarni> Girl Genius makes a 404
23:25:54 <fjb> Clicking on "Alle" does nothing. :-)
23:25:59 <Gonozal_VIII> some links are broken... not very up to date
23:26:08 <Gonozal_VIII> enable javascript then^^
23:26:14 <Prof_Frink> Well, it opened all in tabs... then I deployed c-a-esc on konqui
23:26:45 <Bjarni> hmm... Girl Genius looks a whole lot like fiction. I guess some people can get a kick of of that statement
23:27:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i even managed to make the page generate cookies with the dropdown 0-5 stuff :-)
23:27:18 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: No SA
23:31:25 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll add that the next time i update the page
23:32:22 <Bjarni> Sacro: done "reading" your hentai?
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23:36:05 <Gonozal_VIII> aaaand.. sequentialart can only be read in sequence? how do i reach page 1 there?^^
23:38:07 <Prof_Frink> look at the image URL.
23:38:44 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but then it's only the image without the next buttons..
23:38:55 <Gonozal_VIII> don't want to change numbers all the time^^
23:39:59 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Get with the < then
23:40:05 <Bjarni> create your own frame then
23:40:16 <Bjarni> with a next button and get the URL
23:40:52 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm too lazy to change numbers in the url but i will write my own frame... sure...
23:41:11 <Gonozal_VIII> that html source is weird
23:41:19 <Bjarni> alternatively you can make your own cartoons
23:42:18 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Like I said. <
23:42:41 <Gonozal_VIII> i won't click that < 354 times
23:43:05 <Bjarni> make a script to click automatically once you are done reading
23:43:20 <fjb> Why do people always try to reinvent the browser buttons...?
23:43:24 <Bjarni> make your webcam follow your eyemovements
23:43:25 <Gonozal_VIII> how should the script know when i'm done reading?^^
23:43:39 <Bjarni> so if you look away then it forwards until you look at the screen and looks away again
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23:43:55 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> how should the script know when i'm done reading?^^ <-- I just told you :)
23:44:18 <Bjarni> alternatively you can do as they did in the metro in Copenhagen. Use a timer and hope that it works
23:44:40 * Bjarni has yet to see a metro train leave the busiest station where people were done getting in and out
23:45:03 <Bjarni> even though they doubled the time at that station it's still not enough
23:45:27 <Bjarni> that is what you get for running on the timer instead of actually checking if people are getting in or out
23:46:23 <Gonozal_VIII> they have a timer here too but it only prevents the doors from opening, it doesn't shut them if they're already open
23:46:47 <Bjarni> here they close the doors then time is up
23:46:53 <Bjarni> hitting people if they have to
23:46:54 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: How about 35?
23:47:24 <Prof_Frink> The < works not like you think.
23:49:56 <Bjarni> always nice to get feedback telling what in the code that fucks up
23:50:04 <Bjarni> instead of the usual "this doesn't work"
23:55:03 <Sacro> !calc -7 / ( 5 * sqrt(2) )
23:56:00 <Sacro> @calc -7 / ( 5 * sqrt(2) )
23:56:00 <DorpsGek> Sacro: -0.989949493661
23:56:24 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: now would be an excellent time to demand your school money back
23:57:08 <Gonozal_VIII> for big 2 and small 5 :-)
23:58:35 <Bjarni> during a math lecture a few months ago the professor asked a rhetorical question. "Is there a number that's both equal 5 and -5 at the same time". Somebody yelled "42"
23:58:54 <Bjarni> the point was to prove that the equation had no solution
23:59:40 <Bjarni> yeah but sqrt(25) wasn't in our pool of numbers for the solution
23:59:54 <Bjarni> you know... N, Z and so on
continue to next day ⏵
