⏴ go to previous day
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02:44:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: egladil * r11498 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [FS#1411]: [OSX] Added support for using Quartz instead of Quickdraw in windowed mode on OS X 10.4 and higher. Based on a patch by blackis.

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04:18:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11499 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11144): mul/div factor were wrong (off by two)

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08:09:19  <dihedral> morning

08:10:38  <hylje> morning!

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08:17:48  <dihedral> @seen skidd13

08:17:49  <DorpsGek> dihedral: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <skidd13> dihedral: please be patient and stop asking me all the questions you'll see!

08:18:23  <dihedral> :-S

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08:40:52  <dihedral> SpComb: which file of yours parses settincs.cpp?

08:40:59  <dihedral> for myottd that is

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09:18:18  <dihedral> @seen Bjarni

09:18:18  <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight

09:18:46  <dihedral> well - then one could assume he is up by now :-P

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11:08:37  <lino> I'm not really sure if my question is foolish: Is it only me that a couple of strings of my translation of OpenTTD do not fit with the space available?

11:08:39  <lino> I'm slightly confused about this, because it is like that for a really long time now and some dialogs are really barely useable.

11:08:40  <lino> I wonder if it is just a lack of translation or if i can change this by myself (another font, screen resolution, ...)

11:10:04  <lino> Em, sorry! The translation I am talking about is the German one - an affected dialog is the replace vehicles dialog for example.

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11:10:24  <fjb> Moin

11:10:30  <dihedral> huhu

11:10:56  <fjb> :-)

11:10:58  <dihedral> lino - i think that has already been fixed in later revisions

11:11:26  <fjb> I saw the games of yesterday already ended. Is there a way to see who won?

11:11:53  <dihedral> you could possibly find a sav in pub.dihedral.de/openttd/FP1

11:12:40  <lino> dihedral: later than what? It's in the most recent nightly... using r11499 atm

11:12:48  <fjb> dihedral: I'm curious if my company was set up good enough for the time I was sleeping.

11:13:40  <fjb> dihedral: When did the game end?

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11:13:44  <dihedral> lino: thought you were refering to another version ;-0

11:13:51  <dihedral> fjb: i have no idea

11:15:12  <fjb> dihedral: Ok. Did the modified buildig cost grf change?

11:15:42  <dihedral> we took it out for now

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11:15:59  <dihedral> but perhaps move the questions regarding my servers to another channle

11:16:03  <dihedral> :-

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11:19:03  <lino> hm, so there is nothing i can do?

11:21:31  <lino> ...beside joining web translator

11:21:43  <SpComb> dihedral: trunk/openttd/openttd.py

11:23:08  <dihedral> lino: perhaps talking to someone here :-)

11:23:14  <dihedral> thank you SpComb

11:23:23  <lino> Is there a discussion place or something like that? Perhaps there are some reasons that some translations are like they are.

11:23:45  <dihedral> tt-forums.net bugs.openttd.org

11:24:49  <lino> hm, is something like this a bug?

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11:37:41  <dihedral> BigBB: the TextColor enums in gfx.h dont work...

11:37:48  <dihedral> they will change the color on the console

11:38:03  <dihedral> but not the text color displayed in the chat shown in the game directly

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11:44:55  <lino> Sure German often needs more space than English, but the current translation is a little bit intricate... double phrases... just wonder no German speaking user is bothered by this.

11:44:56  <lino> But ok, i will sum up what i notice and change it for myself first... if I'm happy with my changes i try to contact the right person (whoever this may be)

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11:45:10  <lino> thank you dihedral

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11:59:00  <Ammler> flag bug fixed?

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12:02:20  <dihedral> Ammler: what flag bug?

12:02:37  <Ammler> dihedral: the english flag was a american

12:02:50  <dihedral> and now it's not?

12:03:06  <Ammler> no, now its uk :)

12:03:11  <dihedral> lol

12:03:22  <dihedral> or is there another language one can set

12:04:09  <Ammler> maybe its possible to set now american too, no idea

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12:09:15  <Ammler> dihedral: why do you need to change the order of grfs?

12:09:54  <dihedral> are not some grf combinations sensitive to order they are loaded at?

12:10:13  <Ammler> yeah, thats why our pack is so cool

12:10:35  <Ammler> because the orders should have be aware of that...

12:11:54  <dihedral> ...

12:12:14  <dihedral> you mean that they are named like that to satisfy dependancies?

12:12:17  <dihedral> and order?

12:12:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11500 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Smooth economy fine-tuning, making industries more responsive. Patch by Sirkoz.

12:12:46  <dihedral> nice

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13:00:17  <SmatZ> hello

13:00:26  <Gonozal_VIII> hi

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13:33:44  <dihedral> Rubidium: could 'building on slopes' bo _not_ affected by rais/lower land base cost, but by the 'miscelaneous' one ?

13:34:25  <dihedral> or anyhow separated from 'rais/lower land' in any way?

13:46:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: egladil * r11501 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (wnd_quartz.mm wnd_quickdraw.mm): -Fix: [OSX] This remedies a problem with right click scrolling that was introduced in r11492.

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15:24:27  <prophet> hi!

15:24:40  <prophet> i've just installed openttd 6.0 beta

15:24:52  <dihedral> well done

15:25:17  <prophet> but for some reason i can't use the trams. I allready treid inserting the generic tram set but it doesn't wan't to be displayed in grf list

15:25:21  <prophet> :P

15:25:46  <dihedral> well... then may i assume you just might have done something wrong :-P

15:25:48  <Ammler> how did you do that

15:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> in what directory did you put them?

15:25:58  <dihedral> you put the generic tramset.grf into data?

15:26:31  <prophet> no in /home/username/.openttd/grf

15:26:51  <prophet> and then i tried adding it in game with the list but he doesbn't even shows ist

15:26:54  <dihedral> try /home/username/.openttd/data

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15:26:56  <prophet> s/ist/is

15:27:07  <dihedral> i sense a german speaker ;-P

15:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean "it" :)

15:28:02  <prophet> yes i'm typing to fast

15:28:33  <prophet> well thanks that works fine in data, but why does it not work in the grf folder? All other grfs work in there to!

15:29:11  <glx> no grf can be found if not in data tree

15:30:21  <prophet> but asll others in the grf tree are found!

15:31:12  <dihedral> perhaps they are in ./data

15:31:49  <dihedral> where . = the directory where openttd resids in or depending on the options you configured it with before compiling

15:32:11  <prophet> oh your right tha are in data...

15:32:17  <prophet> i just had a cody in grf

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15:32:56  <dihedral> :-)

15:33:27  <prophet> well thx and a nice evening

15:33:28  <prophet> bye

15:34:05  <Ammler> prophet: you can have as much directories as you like as long as they are in ./data :)

15:34:15  <prophet> :D

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16:27:59  <Belugas> Anyone working with Verifone 1000Se PINPad?

16:28:20  <dihedral> hello there Belugas :-)

16:28:47  <Belugas> hey dihedral

16:35:27  <Belugas> looks like a big "no"

16:35:39  <dihedral> well... more like a pretty silent one :-D

16:40:23  <Belugas> i had very littlehope of a yes, to be honest

16:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11502 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:

16:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r11144): don't do standard production change if callbacks 29/35 failed

16:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r11144): disable smooth economy for industries using callbacks 29/35

16:52:31  <dihedral> glx: what are those callbacks?

16:53:00  <glx> random/monthly industry production change

16:53:26  <dihedral> so if they use monthly they are not smooth?

16:53:36  * dihedral is probably getting something wrong :-P

16:54:06  <glx> without any callbacks, smooth is done monthly

16:54:35  <Belugas> there are two different production scheme : traditionnal and smooth.  Only traditionnal is allowed while using grf

16:54:51  <dihedral> oh...

16:55:01  <dihedral> btw. i saw you commited a patch by SirkoZ

16:55:01  <Belugas> if they are specifying any kind of prod callback, that is...

16:55:25  <dihedral> that will probably make him all happy bunnies :-P

16:55:25  <Belugas> sharp eye ;)

16:55:37  <dihedral> yes - i have a highlight for that name

16:55:54  <Belugas> Sirkiz

16:56:00  <Belugas> Sirkoz

16:56:04  <dihedral> thanks

16:58:25  <Belugas> Sirkoz

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17:00:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11503 /branches/noai/ (279 files in 22 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r11308:11502.

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17:37:45  <Unknown_Entity> what could be the reason that the sprites from openttdw.grf aren't loaded at all? even though the md5 check runs fine.

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17:59:43  <Ammler> Unknown_Entity: maybe because there is no openttdw.grf. (w)

18:00:59  <Unknown_Entity> Ammler: of course there is, otherwise the md5 chek would complain

18:02:13  <Ammler> hmm, which version do you play?

18:02:31  <Ammler> or dd you like to

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18:03:39  <Unknown_Entity> latest svn, the code only changed recently. this is on my (not yet fully working) ds port

18:05:46  <Unknown_Entity> now louding the openttd sprites is done with LoadNewGRF() instead of LoadGrfIndexed() and there's the problem somewhere

18:05:57  <Unknown_Entity> *loading

18:07:05  <Ammler> ok, I have no idea, I only can say there is none openttdw.grf

18:07:40  <glx> Ammler: check better

18:07:52  <Ammler> :)

18:07:54  <Ammler> I did

18:08:04  <Ammler> and there is now, lok

18:08:39  <Ammler> glx: what are they for?

18:08:50  <Ammler> I hope, not windows and dos

18:09:27  <glx> openttd[wd].grf replaces openttd.grf, flags.grf, ... using action 5

18:10:26  <glx> and the correct palette

18:10:51  <Ammler> but for what is the dos version needed?

18:11:05  <glx> for people using dos ttd files

18:11:10  <Ammler> ah, ok

18:12:05  <dihedral> the dos grf's are ugly

18:12:15  <dihedral> i used them and only realized _after_ wwottdgd

18:12:16  <dihedral> :-P

18:12:49  <glx> dos grfs are ok if you use dos version of newgrf

18:13:22  <Ammler> glx: but does it make sense to support both palette with openttd?

18:13:36  <Ammler> is that not just waste of time for you?

18:14:08  <Ammler> or did you do that all the time, and we didn't recognize it :)

18:14:10  <glx> we always supported them, just our grf had only windows palette

18:14:49  <Ammler> so know, you can also use a dos grf, doesn't matter?

18:15:08  <Ammler> no lila colors...

18:16:47  <Ammler> but you will make different release for final 0.6?

18:18:56  <glx> no, why?

18:19:50  <Unknown_Entity> the download is 370kb bigger :P

18:21:19  <Unknown_Entity> but back to my problem... so it'i action 5 that should load the sprites?

18:21:35  <glx> yes it's a newgrf

18:23:21  <Unknown_Entity> i do get debug output, but it's mostly like "Skipping n sprites"

18:24:22  <Ammler> glx: I don't like redundancy

18:24:51  <Ammler> hmm, for such things

18:25:51  <Ammler> I have still no clue, why someone should need the dos version...

18:26:43  <glx> because some people only have dos version CD

18:28:11  <glx> Unknown_Entity: redirect "openttd -d grf9" output to a file (stderr is enough)

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18:30:47  <Unknown_Entity> glx: unfortunately that's not possible. ds development sucks in those regards. i could only makl screenshots xD

18:31:40  <glx> can you use -l ip[:port]        = Redirect DEBUG() ?

18:33:25  <Unknown_Entity> nah, i don't have any netork code on it :(

18:34:04  <Unknown_Entity> is the grf replacing done in stage 5 only?

18:35:14  <glx> yes

18:35:15  <Ammler> glx, me too, but there are enough download links on the web

18:35:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> but they are of questionable legality

18:35:41  <Ammler> omg

18:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> not "omg", this is an issue for some people

18:36:12  <glx> Ammler: you can't force the owner of a dos version to get the windows version

18:36:18  <Unknown_Entity> hmm, i's only doing stages 0,2,3 and 4

18:37:35  <Ammler> of course, I understand, but... hmm, I check the size of the revision now), It was a nice 2 mega zip before

18:40:52  <Ammler> yeah, forgot my comments, it doesn't really matter. :)

18:41:16  <glx> Unknown_Entity: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/grf9.txt <-- that's the loading of openttdw.grf for me

18:41:48  <glx> Ammler: yes different files may give better compression :)

18:42:02  <Ammler> hmm, maybe a openttdl.grf :P

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18:43:22  <Unknown_Entity> glx: thanks. apparently it's doing most of it, except for stage 5

18:43:30  <Ammler> serious, this w isn't needed, imo

18:44:09  <glx> Unknown_Entity: using clean trunk?

18:45:09  <Unknown_Entity> glx: not clean, no. it has my modifications to run on the ds of course

18:45:26  <glx> maybe one of this modification broke it

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19:04:50  <SpComb> verb noun

19:05:21  <hylje> verbing of nouns weirds the language

19:05:37  <Gonozal_VIII> is weirding the language

19:05:46  <SpComb> has weirded the language

19:06:10  <Gonozal_VIII> has been weirdening the language for too long!

19:06:32  <Gonozal_VIII> weirdening is cooler :-)

19:09:37  <Gonozal_VIII> you know what's weird? our numbers... we say two and thirty instead of thirty-two

19:09:46  <Gonozal_VIII> our (german)

19:11:19  <hylje> i took up a book on ++c

19:12:09  <hylje> maybe ill hack a patch or two for ottd too

19:12:19  <LordAzamath> dtto

19:12:25  <LordAzamath> :D

19:12:26  <Gonozal_VIII> nice :-)

19:16:18  <Belugas> don't hack. do it right

19:17:05  <SpComb> hack in PBS

19:17:11  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe

19:17:21  <SpComb> copy-paste in the asm from TTD Patch and then runtime monkey-patch it into OpenTTD

19:17:37  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf?

19:18:13  <Rotonen> not everyone is as well versed in reverse engineering and backhacking.. :)

19:18:28  <Rotonen> so should not really count as an universal solution, even if it is one per se

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19:19:33  <Gonozal_VIII> daylength patch :-)

19:19:43  <Gonozal_VIII> i miss that one in the trunk

19:20:23  <Rotonen> train speed limit removal would also be nice to have for some games

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19:22:53  <Gonozal_VIII> for very busy lines that can slow the trains down instead of letting them go faster

19:23:39  <Gonozal_VIII> a train is a little bit faster than the one in fromt, hits a red light, stops and has to accelerate again...

19:23:55  <Gonozal_VIII> chain reaction back

19:24:41  <Rotonen> that's just a sign of poor design

19:25:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gonozal_VIII> i miss that one in the trunk <- then go through the code and decide for each variable if it should depend on days, ticks or both (patch setting)

19:25:04  <Gonozal_VIII> not really... how would you avoid that?

19:25:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i just want a day to take more ticks, rest should stay the same

19:26:40  <Gonozal_VIII> (assuming production, movement... is based on ticks)

19:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gonozal_VIII> you know what's weird? our numbers... we say two and thirty instead of thirty-two <- actuall that's not weird, it's a remnant of them being arabic numbers

19:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> arabs read from right to left

19:27:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but we don't so it's always annoying when you have to write down numbers when somebody says them that way

19:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: this is not about what _you_ want, this is about how it could work for >90% of the people

19:28:17  <Gonozal_VIII> i know, but i don't know what other people think

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19:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> for example, some people would like to have the running costs based on days, so they are independent from the daylength setting

19:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> to balance that, the time based income of cargo should also be lowerd

19:30:58  <Gonozal_VIII> sounds complicated

19:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is exactly why it has not been done...

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19:39:52  <Gonozal_VIII> daylength 10 = divide every income/10?

19:40:58  <Gonozal_VIII> should balance everything, even the fact that an engine can make more trips in its lifetime

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21:17:32  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm there is 5times the ip 66.74.155.152 in the server list when i click find server and the grey marker line jumps around between them

21:20:23  <glx> added by hand?

21:20:41  <Gonozal_VIII> no they appeared after i clicked find server

21:20:53  <Gonozal_VIII> they are not in the cfg

21:23:03  <Gonozal_VIII> now they're gone

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21:48:24  <djal> hi

21:48:29  <djal> somebody there ?

21:48:50  <MrBrrr> Hey there!

21:48:54  <djal> :)

21:49:39  <djal> are there graphists here?

21:49:41  <Belugas> ther's a lot of "somebody" in here

21:49:46  <djal> :)

21:49:54  <MrBrrr> By the way, great job on the beta release!

21:50:11  <MrBrrr> There are two little possibles "issues" I would like to mention.

21:50:24  <Gonozal_VIII> don't ask if xyz is here, just say what you want to say

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21:53:42  <djal> are there officials programmers ?? here :)

21:53:47  <glx> MrBrrr: then just mention them

21:53:55  <MrBrrr> Well, if a train busts it's service interval, it's order won't change if it's set at "Go to Depot X" and it does enter said Depot X.

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21:55:31  <Gonozal_VIII> you mean you can't change the order manually then?

21:56:02  <Gonozal_VIII> or it wants to enter the depot again?

21:56:21  <MrBrrr> It's order stays the same, it doesn't move on.

21:56:27  <MrBrrr> So, yeah, it still wants to enter the depot.

21:56:39  <MrBrrr> And you can't make it "skip" it's Depot order using the "Go To Depot" Button.

21:57:08  <Gonozal_VIII> use service at instead of go to depot

21:57:35  <glx> with go to depot it stops in the depot

21:57:42  <glx> and you must restart it

21:57:46  <MrBrrr> Yup.

21:58:08  <glx> that's intended

21:58:09  <MrBrrr> But putting that aside, it won't automatically change order.

21:59:05  <MrBrrr> If the train busts it's service interval, it won't change order after entering Depot X.

21:59:18  <Gonozal_VIII> once or never?

21:59:56  <MrBrrr> As far as I can tell after testing, never.

22:00:08  <Gonozal_VIII> if it's once, then one depot visit is for service and the other is because the depot is in its orders

22:00:29  <Gonozal_VIII> then using service at would fix it

22:01:03  <Gonozal_VIII> then the train only enters if it needs servicing and also doesn't service anywhere else

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22:02:44  <MrBrrr> Still, doesn't feel right at all.

22:03:20  <Gonozal_VIII> go to depot is like go to waypoint or station, it goes there no matter what

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22:04:43  <MrBrrr> What should happen when a train busts it's service interval for any reason?

22:05:18  <Gonozal_VIII> if it has no depot in its orders, it will search for the nearest one and service there

22:05:30  <MrBrrr> If it does have a depot in it's orders?

22:06:10  <Gonozal_VIII> if the order has service at, the train will service there

22:08:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i just tested, yes, the order doesn't change the first time it enters

22:08:48  <MrBrrr> Yup.

22:09:00  <MrBrrr> But it seems to only affect the Go to Depot order.

22:09:10  <hylje> i think a "chance to go in depot" order would be good

22:09:14  <hylje> for optimization

22:09:30  <Gonozal_VIII> chance to go in depot?

22:10:44  <Gonozal_VIII> if you click service at a depot order, it only enters if it needs service and then moves on to the next order

22:11:19  <MrBrrr> Hmmm.

22:11:20  <Gonozal_VIII> regular go to depot order is more like a waypoint thing

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22:11:32  <MrBrrr> Still.

22:11:38  <chu_> hi

22:11:47  <Gonozal_VIII> at first it enters the depot because it needs servicing...

22:12:02  <Gonozal_VIII> then it moves on to its next order which is to enter the depot

22:12:33  <MrBrrr> I understand the concept.

22:12:44  <MrBrrr> But it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't behave like that.

22:12:53  <Gonozal_VIII> use service at and your problem is solved :-)

22:13:19  <MrBrrr> But I want to force it to go in it's little Depot, every time.

22:13:45  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm

22:14:23  <MrBrrr> Worst than that, even if I disable service intervals, it still "hangs" on it's Go to Depot order.

22:14:39  <Gonozal_VIII> then you could add another optional depot, that way it will not choose the forced depot for random servicing

22:15:00  <Gonozal_VIII> well, you order it to go there

22:15:14  <MrBrrr> Right, but it's not it's only order.

22:19:24  <Gonozal_VIII> you could set its service interval to a very high value, then it will most likely not look for random service and your forced depot order will work...

22:21:08  <MrBrrr> True.

22:21:26  <MrBrrr> But it doesn't work when I disable the thing, odd :)

22:22:25  <Gonozal_VIII> how do you disable servicing? that only works with breakdowns set to none and then it wouldn't make sense to force the train into a depot

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22:23:06  <MrBrrr> default service interval set to "disabled"

22:23:21  <MrBrrr> Oh wait, what does that do anyway?

22:23:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know^^

22:23:57  <MrBrrr> lol ;)

22:24:27  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm 0 days

22:24:32  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't notice that before

22:25:14  <MrBrrr> Also, why aren't there any Forests being generated in the "sub-arctic"?

22:25:43  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm map too flat?

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22:25:49  <hylje> MrBrrr: they require high hills

22:26:00  <MrBrrr> True.

22:26:05  <MrBrrr> But I use Mountainous setting.

22:26:19  <MrBrrr> And no matter how many time I re-generate said map, it won't generate any forest.

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22:26:54  <MrBrrr> Nevermind.

22:27:00  <MrBrrr> That was in some trunk revision.

22:27:06  <MrBrrr> Seems to work in beta.

22:27:30  <Gonozal_VIII> with ecs vectors?

22:27:50  <MrBrrr> Nevermind about my Forest comment buddy.

22:27:58  <Gonozal_VIII> ok...

22:28:43  <MrBrrr> heh

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