IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-11-14
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00:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> who said that _i_ had such a weapon?
00:06:06 <ln-> "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Eddi's personal weapon in the military in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings."
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14:04:36 <dihedral> LeviathNL: pocking webdune?
14:07:45 <LeviathNL> dihedral, pocking ?
14:10:34 <dihedral> i only saw you show up and dissapear again
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15:07:43 * Belugas submerges into the music of Underworld
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15:20:36 <De_Ghosty> how i creat dynamic array in c++?
15:23:40 <dihedral> anybody in here plays ET?
15:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty: you reallocate memory
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15:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> C has no such thing as arrays
15:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> just pointer arithmetics
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15:34:26 <strongfrakk> hi how can i build railroad bend ?
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15:35:28 <strongfrakk> how can i build a railroad bend?
15:36:18 <Belugas> ho... do one direction, then choose the other road direction. the curve willbe made automatically
15:36:38 <Belugas> just make sure the first road part is done on half a tile
15:37:07 <Belugas> and start the other direction on the opposite upper half tile
15:37:14 <Belugas> or something like that
15:37:26 <strongfrakk> how can make half tile:)
15:38:01 <Belugas> roads are always constructed on half tiles
15:38:02 <strongfrakk> when i made them then i had not half tile
15:38:55 <LeviathNL> he's talking about railroad
15:39:29 <strongfrakk> i did not get half tiled raildroad
15:40:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's because they don't exist, belugas was talking about roads
15:40:05 <LeviathNL> there are 4 directions railroad, if you build 2 against against each other in a way the angle is 45 degrees trains will be able to drive over it
15:41:38 <Gonozal_VIII> use the fifth rail building tool with the crossed rails on it, you can build any direction with that
15:43:01 <strongfrakk> oh yeah when i have moved the mouse over the current place it offers to variations
15:43:42 <Belugas> sorry strongfrakk... i've got confused... indeed, i though you ment roads, truck and bus roads...
15:46:34 <strongfrakk> i does not matter my first railroad have already started
15:47:30 <Gonozal_VIII> leviath, what's that in the bottom right corner of your screenshot?
15:47:38 <strongfrakk> ups something wrong
15:47:51 <strongfrakk> it must be turn back:)
15:48:10 <strongfrakk> it can be turn back:)
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15:51:04 <Gonozal_VIII> ah ok thanks... so it's a rail station, not really a dock
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16:17:33 <De_Ghosty> how do i get c to terminate all the mallocs?
16:19:27 <De_Ghosty> i mean when i get an error i wanna exit
16:19:34 <De_Ghosty> and i want it to free everything
16:19:39 <glx> pointer = malloc(); free(pointer)
16:20:24 <De_Ghosty> errrr isn't there a call to something to free everything?
16:20:38 <Gonozal_VIII> make it a function
16:20:40 <glx> you need to do it yourself
16:21:18 <Gonozal_VIII> garbage collector ftw^^
16:21:19 <Belugas> read it, it will help you, i'm sure
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16:23:27 <De_Ghosty> i donno how to signal or terminate properly
16:26:12 <Gonozal_VIII> a game where you have to phone home?
16:26:57 <Vikthor> No, I presume he means Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
16:27:14 <LeviathNL> I have the demo if you mean ET:Quake wars
16:28:00 <Vikthor> Well I had been playing, but I cant get my mouse to work correctly with ET
16:29:33 <Vikthor> Well it is since I upgraded to Xorg 7.3
16:30:02 <Vikthor> I cant turn mouse accel off
16:30:24 <Vikthor> Anyway I have to go, bye
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16:44:55 <De_Ghosty> is there anyways to beak from a if ?
16:45:41 <Gonozal_VIII> another if inside...
16:46:55 <De_Ghosty> if(asdf){if(fail)break;}
16:47:01 <De_Ghosty> i only wanna end the if
16:47:58 <De_Ghosty> i though it's bad to use goto
16:48:19 <BigBB> an extra function and return;
16:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to "else"?
16:48:53 <Belugas> it is indeed bad to use goto..
16:50:04 <Gonozal_VIII> if(asdf){if(!fail) {do the rest} }
16:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if(asdf){x; if(fail){y;} else {z;}}
16:51:07 <De_Ghosty> big if are hard to read
16:52:06 <Belugas> or split in smaller functions
16:53:40 <Gonozal_VIII> if(asdf){if(!fail) {do the rest} } <-- that's not bigger than break just the other way around
16:57:41 <Gonozal_VIII> if(asdf){do something; if(!fail){do the rest;}} makes more sense^^
17:00:05 <skidd13_UNI> Anyone tried the Intel Linux C++ Compiler?
17:00:24 <dihedral> you tried playing ET?
17:02:00 <skidd13_UNI> dihedral: yes... but ... I stopped playing shooters ;9
17:02:52 <Gonozal_VIII> ah yes.. those buggers are fast
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17:20:52 <De_Ghosty> when i free something
17:20:56 <De_Ghosty> it become null right?
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17:21:14 <Rubidium> free(x) doesn't make x null
17:21:17 <glx> it's safer to do free(pointer); pointer = NULL;
17:22:00 <Gonozal_VIII> why does that matter?
17:23:32 <De_Ghosty> do i crash if i free something twice?
17:24:12 <SmatZ> may happen, especially when the memory has been reallocated for some other data
17:24:38 <Gonozal_VIII> free(pointer); pointer = NULL; <-- you change it after you freed it?
17:26:10 <Rubidium> a pointer is technically a int-like type that contains the memory address of something
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17:26:46 <Rubidium> so you change the 'thing' that points, not the stuff that it is pointing to
17:27:56 <Gonozal_VIII> had nothing of that in java...
17:32:26 <De_Ghosty> so i should null it whenever i free it?
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17:41:30 <Sionide> anybody had ottd working on a symbian s60 3rd edition device?
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18:39:08 <De_Ghosty> how i malloc 2d arrays?
18:41:42 <Gonozal_VIII> big 1d array and calculate 2. dimension :-)
18:46:39 <Bjarni> we kind of knew that ;)
18:46:45 <Belugas> say that again :) it feels good :D
18:47:02 <Bjarni> we kind of knew that ;)
18:47:43 <Bjarni> I knew it would make you happy :)
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18:55:24 <De_Ghosty> how i creat a **matrix with malloc?
18:56:32 <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: malloc(m * n * sizeof(unit))
18:56:32 <glx> malloc(xsize) then malloc(ysize) for each one
18:56:48 <De_Ghosty> but i can't use matrix[i][j] with that
18:57:03 <Bjarni> you can if you are wise
18:57:10 <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: well... you could override the operator []
18:57:16 <De_Ghosty> share some wisdom please
18:58:04 <De_Ghosty> so **matrix = malloc(xsize) malloc(ysize)
18:58:27 <Gonozal_VIII> that would be lots of mallocs
18:59:06 <Bjarni> I just wonder... wouldn't it be possible to malloc the array and then make a pointer which knows the [][] and make the pointer point to the newly allocated memory. That should do it
18:59:12 <SmatZ> uint **matrix = malloc(xsize * sizeof(uint));
18:59:15 <Bjarni> the question is how to make the pointer
18:59:38 <SmatZ> for (uint i = 0 ; i< xsize ; i++) matrix[i] = malloc(ysize*sizeof(uint));
18:59:38 <glx> uint **matrix = malloc(xsize * sizeof(uint*)); I think
19:00:12 <exe> first malloc should be xsize * pointer size
19:00:13 <Bjarni> int *a[2][2] = &malloc; <-- I wonder if a simple line like that would work
19:00:41 <Bjarni> well, you would have to use malloc into a normal pointer and then use that pointer, but the basic idea...
19:00:44 <SmatZ> you are storing address of a function into some array?
19:01:09 <Bjarni> I think the idea in my psedo code went missing :(
19:01:57 <Bjarni> the idea is to make a pointer to the 2D array then store the pointer to the allocated memory in that pointer
19:02:40 <Gonozal_VIII> pointer to a pointer of a pointer pointer pointer :S
19:03:06 <Bjarni> sounds like multiple road stops
19:03:45 <Bjarni> it could likely be simplified by call by reference
19:03:51 <Bjarni> but it's from the C era
19:05:22 <glx> I can't find **** in source
19:05:52 <Bjarni> maybe somebody simplified it
19:06:14 <Bjarni> or maybe it was only ***
19:07:04 <Rubidium> *** is (usually) a Bjarniism ;)
19:07:42 <glx> vehicle list use *** and that's the only place in code
19:08:29 <Bjarni> maybe somebody cleaned up the vehicle stop code
19:08:46 <De_Ghosty> int ** create2dDynamicMatrix(int row,int col){
19:08:46 <De_Ghosty> int *arry = malloc(col * sizeof(int*));
19:08:46 <De_Ghosty> int **matrix =malloc(row*sizeof(arry));
19:09:16 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: it would work, but it won't give the expected result
19:10:19 <Rubidium> T** arr = malloc(col * sizeof(T*); for (uint i = 0; i < col; i++) arr[i] = malloc(row * sizeof(T)); return arr;
19:10:44 <Rubidium> *but* you have to be precise with freeing it too
19:10:58 <De_Ghosty> ahhh that is painful lol
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19:11:46 <Rubidium> so you at least need to remember the value of 'col' too if you intend to properly free it's memory
19:11:55 *** Bjarni sets mode: -b *!*Sacro@*.karoo.KCOM.COM
19:12:28 <Bjarni> maybe he will come back and NOT copy paste sick stuff in other languages again
19:12:36 <Bjarni> and then again... it's Sacro
19:13:01 <Sacro> you mean i was still banned?
19:13:19 <Sacro> someone could have told me...
19:13:23 <Bjarni> now I wonder why you were here while being banned
19:13:33 <Sacro> nobody told me i was banned :\
19:13:45 <Bjarni> you logged in using your real name, not Sacro
19:14:02 <Bjarni> we should have banned the ISP
19:14:04 <Rubidium> Sacro: nobody told you were banned? My logs says the contrary
19:14:05 <Sacro> Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM
19:14:12 <Sacro> Rubidium: i got kicked and banned
19:14:21 <Sacro> but then my bnc died, when it restarted it joined fine
19:14:24 <Rubidium> no, you got banned and kicked
19:15:18 <Rubidium> with banned then kicked the kicked person knows (s)he is banned, with kicked then banned the kicked person does not
19:15:37 <Sacro> it tells me i cannot join #openttd (you are banned)
19:15:46 <Bjarni> if A and B are matrices...
19:32:35 <De_Ghosty> for (int i = 0; i < (int*)sizeof(matrix); i++)
19:32:44 <De_Ghosty> free( sizeof(matrix[i]))
19:33:14 <De_Ghosty> what does sizeof (matrix) get me?
19:33:18 <SmatZ> i < (int*)sizeof(matrix)
19:33:20 <Rubidium> yes, but it least a lot of allocated memory
19:33:45 <De_Ghosty> errr how i get number of rows?
19:33:47 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: sizeof('pointer')
19:33:53 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: you don't
19:34:17 <Rubidium> that's why I said you have to keep track of it yourself
19:34:28 <Gonozal_VIII> you made the matrix, you know the size
19:34:29 <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: generally you have to remember it somewhere
19:34:45 <SmatZ> yes, you are the God of that matrix
19:35:16 <Gonozal_VIII> you are the chosen one!
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19:41:07 <De_Ghosty> void freeAllocatedIntPtr(int num_row, int num_col,int**x){
19:41:07 <De_Ghosty> for (i=0;i<num_row;i++){
19:41:07 <De_Ghosty> for (j=0;j<num_col;j++);
19:41:26 <De_Ghosty> is the j counter redundent?
19:41:32 <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: there is paste.openttd.org, you know
19:42:43 <De_Ghosty> i though it was extra
19:43:08 <Rubidium> freeing ints isn't the safest thing to do
19:43:10 <dihedral_> Enemy Territory game at openttd.dihedral.de (/connect openttd.dihedral.de) server name: #Openttdcoop.ET all required files at http://pub.dihedral.de/ET
19:43:27 <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: your code ~ would free a 3D array
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19:44:14 <dihedral_> feel free to join #openttdcoop.et
19:45:35 <dihedral_> what was that De_Ghosty ?
19:46:38 <De_Ghosty> what happen if i cast int** into int*
19:47:02 <De_Ghosty> can i cast int** into int*?
19:47:25 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know what ** and * means so no idea
19:47:47 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: you can cast anything into everything in C
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19:48:00 <Rubidium> whether it works as expected is something completely different
19:49:18 <dihedral_> Gonozal_VIII: De_Ghosty just showed up on #openttdcoop.et for one second and was gone again
19:51:00 <De_Ghosty> so if i cast int ** into int*
19:51:15 <De_Ghosty> i can reference it like a 1 dimension rigt?
19:51:18 <De_Ghosty> or does it break down?
19:51:32 <De_Ghosty> i'll do it the safe way
19:54:08 <SmatZ> you can, but then it will be array of int, not array of int* ... int* and int can have different sizes
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19:57:42 <De_Ghosty> so it wouldn't break?
19:59:15 <Noldo_> what is it taht you need to do?
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20:11:21 <Wolf01> LeviathNL, i see you edit the post about the who.. shores, i was thinking if that word might had another mean, but i found nothing ;)
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20:30:34 <Rubidium> anyone in here know how to start TTDP in for example Russian?
20:32:38 <DaleStan> set LANG=ru first, I believe. Note that this only controls TTDPatch (ttdpatch[w].exe), not Patched TTD (TTDLOAD[W].OVL).
20:34:29 <glx> I tried that, I get russian in ttdp console, but I fail change language in ttdp
20:35:28 <DaleStan> Like I said. That's for ttdpatchw.exe, not TTDLOADW.OVL. For the latter, you need an appropriate translation grf file.
20:36:29 <Rubidium> but shouldn't some NewGRF like ECS Machinery use Russian in that case?
20:37:41 <DaleStan> Maybe it should, but it is as designed that it does not.
20:37:55 <LeviathNL> Ammler, that is a new game
20:41:21 <Ammler> ok, added your screen to the wiki
20:44:41 <De_Ghosty> null pointer is NULL right?
20:48:44 <Gonozal_VIII> null is german for zero :-)
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20:49:35 <Rubidium> shouldn't the first letter be capitalized?
20:50:00 <Gonozal_VIII> that's irc... i don't capitalize anything here
20:50:30 <Rubidium> well null != Null in C
20:51:07 <Rubidium> gonozal_viii: really?
20:51:08 <Gonozal_VIII> but yes, it should be N
20:51:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have to type my nick often
20:53:15 <Gonozal_VIII> else it would probably be something like gonozal8 or gono
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21:12:20 <Belugas> [15:39] <DaleStan> Maybe it should, but it is as designed that it does not. <--- what do you mean? That George made some errors in ECS?
21:12:57 <Belugas> or better yet, what should he had done in order to make it right?
21:13:11 <Belugas> or even better, do you think he knows?
21:13:14 <DaleStan> No. That the setting of LANG was never intended to have an effect on TTD's in-game language.
21:13:53 <DaleStan> LANG only affects the messages emitted by ttdpatch[w].exe, not TTDLOAD[W].OVL.
21:17:11 <Belugas> so, in order to get ECS in TTDP to have russian strings, there is a required grf that needs to be included
21:17:23 <Belugas> if i understand it correctly
21:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: why type any nick if you can use tab-completition?
21:19:29 <Rubidium> because gonozal_viii only talks in lowercase
21:20:16 <Prof_Frink> Pfft. Gonozal_VIII is not asiego.
21:24:27 <Gonozal_VIII> that's something spanish?
21:26:58 <LeviathNL> Ammler, you might wanna check out the action 10 labels in Basecosts.grf, you didn't define a label so the first byte of the first character is the label. some action7 might jump to a Action 10 instead of the number of sprites you declared
21:31:42 <DaleStan> Belugas: Yes. Any GRF that sets var 9F to the correct value.
21:35:06 <LeviathNL> Ammler, if a parameter is set to 255 should it ignore all the modifiers behind it?
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21:35:52 <cybermage> I may have stupid question :)
21:36:11 <cybermage> Do you know about any scripts which will build OpenTTD server statistics?
21:36:15 <Gonozal_VIII> there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
21:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a common misconception...
21:36:54 <Gonozal_VIII> i know but i always wanted to say that :-)
21:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a lib that interfaces with ottd
21:38:36 <Bjarni> <cybermage> I may have stupid question :) <-- the most common stupid question in here is "may I ask a question?"... specially since it's a question so answering no will make an issue with rule violation :P
21:38:37 <cybermage> google did not provide any answer
21:39:22 <cybermage> You see, I did not ask if I can ask :)
21:39:37 <cybermage> I just commented out, that I will have stupid question:)
21:40:22 <glx> cybermage: it is openttdlib indeed :)
21:40:36 <cybermage> that may be the problem, thanks
21:45:00 <cybermage> hmm, interesting :)
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21:46:15 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Hence why blitzed/#linux has "Don't ask if you can ask, just ask! (Then be patient)" in the topic
21:48:02 <Bjarni> we cleaned up our topic because it contained too much info so people didn't read it, but this is something we would like to use
21:48:23 <cybermage> Have you ever worked at IT support?
21:48:51 <Bjarni> "my computer can't start"... I plugged it in and it booted just fine
21:49:18 <Bjarni> kind of like kindergarten :s
21:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: in my experience, that does not help
21:49:56 <cybermage> I think you should never tell something like "There are no stupid questions"
21:50:25 <Prof_Frink> "Hello IT, have you tried turning it off and on again? Are you sure it's plugged in?"
21:50:54 <Rubidium> sounds like "The IT Crowd"
21:52:08 * Prof_Frink hands Rubidium the prize
21:52:12 <Ammler> [22:35] <LeviathNL> Ammler, if a parameter is set to 255 should it ignore all the modifiers behind it? <-- no, it does
21:52:13 <cybermage> Most of it is based on a true story
21:52:31 <Bjarni> the best thing is that he was aware that it was unplugged, but somehow he had the idea that the battery would last forever
21:53:09 <Ammler> only ignore that one and will set defaults to not set
21:55:15 <cybermage> anyone who has experience with openttdlib?
21:55:27 <cybermage> I have problem with
21:55:43 <cybermage> PHP Fatal error: Call to undefined function bcadd() in /home/openttd/openttdlib/OpenTTDLib-0.3/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php on line 266
21:56:01 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: you only missed the distinct sound of the recorder starting ;)
21:56:03 <cybermage> php is compiled with '--enable-bcmath=shared'
21:56:20 <Rubidium> s/recorder/'tape player'/
21:57:07 <dihedral> and search the page for 'bc'
21:57:08 <cybermage> '--enable-bcmath=shared'
21:57:20 <dihedral> did you compile it as such yourself?
21:57:31 <cybermage> no, that's CentOS default build
21:58:36 <cybermage> I am just running example
21:59:17 <dihedral> where can i see available rpm's to centos5?
22:00:09 <cybermage> what should I look for?
22:00:46 <dihedral> sometimes they are seperated over multiple packages
22:01:22 <SpComb> with shared you still need the .so
22:01:43 <cybermage> that's the problem, thanks m8
22:04:30 *** Guest684 is now known as dihedral_
22:11:16 <cybermage> I think I am going to create stats :)
22:12:55 <cybermage> Guys, how is it with patches?
22:13:02 <cybermage> I found no info anywhere
22:13:08 <cybermage> If I am running server
22:13:28 <cybermage> I think I have to install patches there
22:13:35 <cybermage> but what about clients?
22:13:43 <cybermage> do they need to install patches too ?
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22:14:50 <dihedral> if you run a server, you do not _have_ to patch the source
22:15:00 <dihedral> if you do patch the source, it depends what you patch
22:15:21 <dihedral> if it's related to the game directly (i.e. calculations) then all clients will need a patched binary too
22:15:45 <cybermage> I am a little bit slow in the evening
22:16:02 <cybermage> If I want to have some new buildings and wehicles on a server
22:16:10 <cybermage> what should I basically do with the server ?
22:16:58 <Gonozal_VIII> you need only some newgrfs then, no patches
22:17:29 <cybermage> and what about clients?
22:17:37 <cybermage> where will they download these?
22:17:37 <Gonozal_VIII> they also need them
22:17:59 <cybermage> How do they know that they will need some patch ?
22:18:46 <Gonozal_VIII> they see it in the server selection screen
22:19:34 <dihedral> the game will tell them that either they have a missmatch or it's ok
22:20:03 <cybermage> One of my servers seems to be very bussy ;)
22:20:09 <cybermage> planning to implement new one
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22:22:16 <Gonozal_VIII> you could try a nightly server, there are not many of them
22:23:23 <cybermage> actually I don't care so much
22:23:32 <cybermage> OpenTTD does not consume much traffic
22:23:38 <Gonozal_VIII> not if i want... you don't have to do what i say^^
22:23:41 <cybermage> and even not so many system resources ;)
22:24:10 <cybermage> There is no difference for me if I run stable one or nightly build one
22:24:51 <Rubidium> the biggest problem with servers is that virtually none of them are properly monitored
22:26:12 <cybermage> what does that mean?
22:26:56 <Rubidium> that people start a server, that some 'bad' people join the server and bully everyone from that server
22:26:57 <Gonozal_VIII> there are some people that like to ruin the game for others
22:27:05 <Rubidium> and that there is noone who stops them
22:27:54 <Gonozal_VIII> only if you see them
22:28:00 <cybermage> but I need some support for log
22:28:19 <cybermage> I need to log -> Nick, IP ....
22:28:26 <cybermage> then I will get it :)
22:28:49 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not difficult to get a different ip
22:28:50 <Rubidium> IPs and Nicks are generally useless for banning :(
22:29:03 <cybermage> IP's are very usefull
22:29:21 <cybermage> Block range of his provider ;)
22:29:52 <cybermage> Iptables is a very good invention ;)
22:29:57 <Rubidium> done... no people ruining your game
22:30:27 <cybermage> iptables -I INPUT --source x.y.z.a/b -j DROP ;)
22:30:43 <Rubidium> start by adding 81.171.98.111 ;)
22:30:55 <cybermage> that is already blocked I think
22:31:34 <Rubidium> it is *the* most effective way of making no harmful people join
22:32:13 <Gonozal_VIII> is that the advertise server?
22:32:17 <Rubidium> as that is the IP of the masterserver
22:32:25 <cybermage> my current banlist: 213.98.80.75 88.73.240.144 89.178.252.148
22:32:32 <Rubidium> and dropping input from the masterserver means you'll never be on the masterserver
22:32:46 <cybermage> I am advertising my server
22:32:54 <Rubidium> and thus nobody will see your server in the serverlist
22:32:57 <cybermage> no issues with bad guys as I know ;)
22:34:02 <cybermage> Once I find out how to log nick and IP's
22:34:10 <cybermage> I will have everything :)
22:34:16 <Gonozal_VIII> i only play with some friends, so no avertise and a pw
22:34:27 <cybermage> I advertize my server :)
22:34:35 <cybermage> I have no issue with it :)
22:35:03 <cybermage> what to increase to see who is joining ?
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22:37:04 <cybermage> I am using mostly linux console
22:37:11 <cybermage> I need to increase net verbosity
22:37:26 <cybermage> to see what's the source address of player, which is currently connecting
22:40:25 <cybermage> debug_level net=1 :)
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23:13:31 <Rubidium> DaleStan: would it be a problem (for TTDP) when I use the 7th bit of the Action 5 type to tell whether there is an extra byte with offset from where to start replacing sprites (I would like to support changing a subset of sprites for some types). The bit will only have meaning for some types that I want to add for making replacing OpenTTD's sprites easier.
23:14:04 <Rubidium> so for the current types the bit must not be set
23:22:59 <dihedral> is it possible to kinda 'ban' a certain user in tt-forums from certain threads?
23:23:47 <dihedral> this maartena guy is p****** me off
23:23:56 <Rubidium> with a decent browser and some decent script you can I think
23:25:04 <Rubidium> you'll always have people who want other people to do the thinking work...
23:25:53 <dihedral> if i could i'd slap him left and right and send him to mars
23:25:53 <Rubidium> like people buying a computer, going home with the box and calling the support desk asking "what do I do now?"
23:26:21 <Gonozal_VIII> 5 posts in a row :-)
23:26:39 <Rubidium> be happy your lib is only a niche product and you only have one such user
23:27:06 <dihedral> i responded at one ocation with
23:27:10 <dihedral> compare it to: you phoning microsoft because thunderbird is unable to contact the mail server due to a router misconfiguration!
23:28:01 <Rubidium> dihedral: the person did not even open the box!
23:28:17 <dihedral> no - and is still complaining
23:28:25 <Rubidium> it's like calling microsoft so they can help you downloading thunderbird
23:29:03 <dihedral> he posted an error message, that clearly states what is wrong, and is described in the docs
23:29:14 <dihedral> and even sent me a mail about it saying it was buggy
23:29:31 <dihedral> all because he seems unable to understand 'cannot read from ...'
23:29:38 <dihedral> and set the premissions correctly
23:32:17 <Rubidium> and begin your (donot)readme with often occuring errors before even mentioning reporting bugs
23:33:29 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, you rtfm'd him :-)
23:33:30 <Rubidium> btw: there is an inconsistency between the about in the readme and the about in the user guid about the origin
23:34:09 <Rubidium> but still... mention common bugs in the (donot)readme and not in some userguide
23:34:43 <dihedral> if there were common bugs
23:35:12 <Rubidium> bugs/issues... all one big pile of bogus
23:36:08 <dihedral> unless you define 'bugs' as "users, who seemingly believe they are totally capable of doing anything, (un)pleasantly surprise you with the fact that they actually have no idea whatsoever of what is going on around them. in some situations they may also prove to be incapable of reading manuals and/or error messages"
23:36:38 <dihedral> hey - i like that ;-D
23:37:11 <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: yes - i did rtfm him - and now i am actually curious to see his reaction towards that :-P
23:37:21 <dihedral> much nicer than saying 'you p me off'
23:37:37 <Rubidium> dihedral: it is a fact that people do not read a userguide for reasons why something doesn't work.
23:38:09 <dihedral> i _always_ read what i find...
23:38:19 <Rubidium> dihedral: have you read docs.openttd.org?
23:38:43 <dihedral> seen it on more than one ocation
23:39:10 <Rubidium> but have you completely read it?
23:39:23 <Rubidium> that's my point. Nobody will have completely read it.
23:39:29 <dihedral> i had no need to so far :-)
23:39:45 <dihedral> and yes - i read parts
23:40:12 <dihedral> but must say - grep and less seem more intuitive
23:40:45 <SmatZ> hundreds of thousands of lines to read...
23:41:27 <dihedral> Rubidium: is that not the way you read manuals - you pick the stuff that suits your current situation
23:41:48 <dihedral> you only read one man page if you need help on iptables
23:41:52 <dihedral> and not all man pages :-D
23:42:45 <Rubidium> one manpage about iptables?
23:42:50 <Rubidium> that doesn't cover everything
23:51:38 <dihedral> just some new kid :-D
23:51:57 <dihedral> who thought my post was 'offensive'
23:55:51 <dihedral> i'll see what a forum admin has to say to it
continue to next day ⏵
