IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-22
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00:09:52 <Rafagd> first time i've saw a underflow
00:15:49 <Phazorx> it is the overflow of unsigned int :)
00:16:15 <Phazorx> i'm just recreating towns where that bug appears
00:16:21 <Phazorx> and not sure if it fixes the prob
00:17:42 <Rafagd> underflow, in this case
00:18:43 <Rafagd> TTRS is that tool to remove anything, including industries and cities?
00:23:48 <Phazorx> ttrs is total town replacement set
00:23:55 <Phazorx> a grf tha makes cities looks nice and vidid
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00:31:43 <Rafagd> Phazorx: i think its not so hard to patch this
00:32:18 <Rafagd> if (pop - hospital_pop > pop) { pop = 1; /* or 0 */ }
00:32:45 <Rafagd> not exactly with these names... =\
00:33:11 <Gonozal_VIII> q: is there some kind of trick to make road vehicles split into multiple lorry bays more efficiently?
00:33:44 <Gonozal_VIII> trick as in station design
00:34:21 <Phazorx> Gonozal_VIII: somewhat
00:46:27 <Rafagd> amazing grf, it kinda bug on turning but it's really good
00:48:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i tried with all pathfinders now but somehow the trucks seem to prefer a single bay and line up behind that, only sometimes a truck or two uses another bay
00:50:17 <Gonozal_VIII> does the distance of the route matter? this doesn't happen on the other routes and they are shorter
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00:59:47 <Digitalfox> After a big google search i'm confused.. Well emule supports gzip and uses it to compress transfers, but i can't find info on what about torresnt's with azureus or utorrent, if they support or use gzip... Can someone enlight me please.. :\
01:00:32 <Gonozal_VIII> torrents support any filetype afaik
01:00:54 <Digitalfox> no no my friend, i'm talking of transfer compression
01:01:05 <Digitalfox> not file compression :)
01:01:26 <Gonozal_VIII> then i don't know...
01:01:27 <Digitalfox> you see emule uses gzip for file transfer
01:01:40 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe some clients
01:01:43 <Digitalfox> but i can't get any info about torrents clients
01:02:21 <Digitalfox> i'll keep googling.. :\
01:05:18 <Rafagd> i think there is no compression
01:05:41 <Rafagd> at least they do not compress the saved file
01:06:20 <Rafagd> i think the only compression they may use on sending, and uncompress on receive...
01:08:01 <Digitalfox> Well emule uses TCP compression, so you want to download a 600MB file and you only have to download 500MB in some cases
01:08:36 <Digitalfox> But i'm not 100% sure on how this works, because i think and may be wrong that it was gzip on transfer
01:09:29 <Digitalfox> Since i'm no programmer, and don't know how the lib's of gzip work..
01:10:40 <Digitalfox> but never mind, i was only tring to find out if torrent's could use this kind of compression..
01:11:11 <Gonozal_VIII> most files are compressed anyways
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01:15:03 <Digitalfox> anyway time to sleep, work day tommorow..
01:15:13 <Digitalfox> good night everyone.. :)
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01:39:08 <alphax> Hi! I have a souce code question - how to get the cargo name?
01:40:23 <glx> cargo types have a name field
01:41:02 <alphax> I am try to get the cargo name by following code:
01:41:18 <alphax> for (int i=0; i<NUM_CARGO; i++)
01:41:33 <alphax> SetDParam(0, GetCargo(i)->name);
01:41:37 <alphax> GetString(buf, ?, lastof(buf));
01:41:53 <alphax> But, I dont known which string should be passed as 2'nd parameter for the GetString function. Can you tell me?
01:42:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i = NUM_CARGO; ?
01:42:12 <glx> just use GetString(buf, GetCargo(i)->name, lastof(buf))
01:44:49 <alphax> there are also something else in the loop which I am not listed
01:49:23 <alphax> Why the development team does not provide a more directly function like GetCargoName/GetTownName/GetStationName/GetVehName?
01:50:27 <alphax> Rather use GetString(buf, cargo->name, lastof(buf)); ?
01:55:14 <fjb> Hm, ist it possible to join arvs? I would like to make some longer trams.
02:05:28 <Belugas> alphax: one of the reasons is the lang that can change
02:05:55 <Belugas> plus, it serves no purpose to hold such a string regrading the logic of the system.
02:06:11 <Belugas> youcannot do anything with a string, other than display it
02:08:19 <Rafagd> GetCargoName(type cargo) { return GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf)); }
02:08:24 <Rafagd> or something like this?
02:09:30 <glx> why do you need cargo name?
02:10:38 <Belugas> ok, then, why does alphax need cargo name?
02:10:40 <alphax> I am making a management plugin into opentd (my private modification)
02:11:34 <Belugas> alphax, cool, but it does not tell us why you still need it
02:11:46 <fjb> glx: Thanks. Is that feature on the todo list, or is it not considered useful?
02:12:26 <alphax> display the cargo name
02:13:13 <Belugas> then, what glx told you is the way to go
02:13:20 <Belugas> GetString(buf, GetCargo(i)->name, lastof(buf))
02:14:13 <Rafagd> Belugas: he wants an alias function
02:14:17 <Belugas> that, or keep on using the "SetDParam(0, GetCargo(i)->name);-DawString system"
02:14:46 <Rafagd> define can do this, but it's so... define... =\
02:15:07 <Belugas> please, tell me what ou mean by "alias"
02:15:24 <Rafagd> GetCargoName(type cargo) { return GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf)); }
02:15:43 <glx> you need to manage the buffer
02:16:09 <Rafagd> this buf is the return string?
02:16:36 <Rafagd> if it is, he should use this instead of spamming GetString on the code anyway
02:17:31 <glx> GetString is only used when needed
02:17:39 <alphax> Not only I want to call this function, maybe others also want to call this function, we all use a GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf));
02:18:11 <glx> usually you just need to use DrawString
02:18:27 <Rafagd> i think i misunderstood what he wants...
02:18:48 <glx> I use GetString when I want to printf things
02:20:20 <alphax> I am "plugin" a delphi compiled dll into the openttd, because the window system used in the openttd is too difficlt to manipulate
02:20:30 <alphax> it just my private modification
02:20:57 <glx> window system is easy once you understand the logic behind it
02:21:35 <glx> but I agree it's not that easy
02:21:57 <Belugas> so within your own plugin wrapper, define the "alias" regarding the GetCArgoName you desire. would be enough
02:25:41 <glx> the hardest part in the window system is the window definition (the table)
02:26:42 <glx> but once you understand how it works it's easy
02:30:50 <Belugas> but i fail to understand the realtion between the cargo name and the window system... true, we do not have your code to evaluate ;)
02:31:14 <Belugas> btw, i do understand delphi quite well, since it is my language at work
02:33:38 <alphax> I can not use Drawstring in the delphi form, so I am want a cargo name return from openttd, and display in delphi form.
02:34:10 <Rafagd> Belugas: i think he is trying to make some cargo management window... so he wants to print the name on the window
02:35:19 <alphax> Not just cargo, also station, traffic
02:37:28 <glx> will be easier to add a window in ottd ;)
02:37:51 <Belugas> ho... ok... so, basically, you want some kind of management system, but since you do not nderstand the window system of ottd, you prefer to add a dll support to it, do it in delphi and have all hte strings exportable as strings...
02:38:22 <Belugas> glx is right, you should do it in ottd, a lot less headache
02:38:27 <glx> ottd uses strings only in display code
02:39:11 <glx> all the code uses StringID when doing "string" stuff internally
02:39:17 <Rafagd> and if you use delphi, i think it wont patch to linux
02:40:28 <glx> anyway it's time to sleep for me
02:43:19 <Rafagd> Belugas: give him "good night" when he join tomorrow... =\
02:43:51 <Belugas> as i know him, he will join at about the same time i will, so ;)
02:45:49 <Rafagd> Belugas: maybe he is just a bot running in your pc =(
02:47:32 <alphax> I want to working now, thanks for all help. Bye
02:47:36 <Belugas> very unlikely :) my irc client is on my work station at work
02:47:47 <Belugas> bye alphax, and good luck
02:48:07 <Belugas> i'm connected to it from home
02:48:17 <Belugas> so the ghost would be quite a network savvy one ;)
02:50:43 <Rafagd> Belugas: then he may be your long lost evil twin!
02:51:54 <Belugas> a good companion, that's for sure...
02:52:16 <Belugas> and on those notes, it is time for me to get to meet my bed
03:12:37 <DaleStan> Belugas: "0.6.0 (release) 0608000" EINSUFFICIENTDIGITS. Also, documentation says 80000h is "added", not "used instead".
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08:17:22 <Ammler> openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-public/src/town_map.h:168: bool IsHouseCompleted(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_HOUSE)' failed.
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09:03:38 <TrueBrain> very good, your first words
09:03:41 <TrueBrain> we are so proud at you
09:12:40 <dihedral> TrueBrain: would you be able to help me with this 'move clients to company' stuff?
09:13:34 <TrueBrain> good point you have there
09:13:44 <TrueBrain> and, if I may say so, an interesting one
09:14:08 <TrueBrain> always wanted to do that
09:14:12 <TrueBrain> now I finally was allowed
09:14:57 <dihedral> do i need to do a full PACKET_SERVER_<something> and PACKET_CLIENT_<something> ?
09:15:37 <dihedral> or am i going in the wrong direction there?
09:16:20 <TrueBrain> depends on what you want
09:16:30 <TrueBrain> do you want to be able to move a player mid-game?
09:17:02 <TrueBrain> or is it on-join only, that you want to force a company?
09:17:57 <dihedral> so it could also be used as 'penalty'...
09:18:05 <dihedral> moved to 255 for 5 mins or so :-P
09:18:19 <TrueBrain> would need a PACKET_CLIENT I guess
09:18:40 <dihedral> and a how to send, and how to receive
09:18:54 <TrueBrain> network_client.cpp :p
09:18:57 <TrueBrain> check an other packet
09:19:52 <dihedral> and why does NetworkUpdateClientInfo() not do the trick?
09:20:01 <dihedral> i though it sends the info to ALL clients
09:20:03 <TrueBrain> but feel free to try
09:20:18 <dihedral> no - just to understand why it does not work
09:20:34 <TrueBrain> ClientInfo doesn't do ANYTHING real in the game
09:21:00 <TrueBrain> you need to alter _local_player
09:21:17 <dihedral> heh - that is good to know
09:21:37 <TrueBrain> (of course you ALSO need to send the ClientInfo update packet)
09:21:42 <TrueBrain> but that is for all the other clients
09:22:23 <dihedral> ah - so the actual client being moved gets the PACKET_CLIENT command
09:22:32 <dihedral> and only that client
09:22:37 <TrueBrain> or find an other way
09:25:50 * dihedral greets Ammler _again_
09:26:28 <Ammler> uhm, have problems with my irc client
09:26:50 <dihedral> i am at school - working on the company pw thing
09:27:04 <dihedral> and then i shall have a look at moving clients around
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09:29:07 <Ammler> just that we don't loose the goal with all the ideas etc...
09:29:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:29:33 <Ammler> hmm, please edit/add/delete...
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09:44:49 <dihedral> Ammler: 5 loeffel :-P
09:46:18 <Ammler> hehe, hmm Gekz, what does 5L mean?
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12:09:15 <dihedral> i can fetch and set _network_player_info[index].password
12:09:28 <dihedral> yet not _network_player_info[index].company_name
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13:27:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: miham * r11337 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:27:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-22 15:25:18
13:27:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 128 fixed, 35 changed by TrueTenacity (163)
13:27:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 2 fixed by thetitan (2)
13:27:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
13:27:09 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
13:27:09 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
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13:29:19 <ammler> TrueBrain: your patch is awesom, I hope, you will sometime forgive my "whää".
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13:59:11 <dihedral> you asked a question yesterday i bl
14:00:26 <Osai> whether the effect of watching the thumbnails in your blog is a plugin or a feature of wp2.3
14:00:39 <dihedral> plugin is called lightbox
14:01:12 <dihedral> and the stuff that fetches live game data is OpenTTDLib :-)
14:01:57 <MiHaMeK> dihedral: what's your blog address :)
14:03:44 <Osai> dihedral: I had a look at OpenTTDLib
14:04:05 <ammler> Osai: take the dev version
14:04:29 <ammler> it has support for newgrfs too
14:04:46 <dihedral> i should find the time after wwottdgd to finish the documentation
14:04:57 <Osai> actually we use ottd_server_info
14:05:11 <dihedral> wich generates those images
14:05:36 <dihedral> i am going to include the image generation after the next release
14:06:22 <Osai> did you integrate the server info into the blog?
14:07:14 <dihedral> need to click on the server name
14:08:26 <dihedral> Osai: the grf's on that page are cached
14:08:55 <dihedral> basically OpenTTDLib checks in an xml file if the grf id and md5sum pair is stored in it..
14:09:08 <dihedral> if yes, it takes the name from the xml file, if no, it will query the server
14:09:20 <Osai> and the server info in the sidebar is cached as well?
14:09:24 <dihedral> after querying the server, it updates the xml file
14:09:40 <dihedral> osai: the grf's are the only things cached
14:10:13 <dihedral> as grf id and md5sum pairs to the corresponding names will never change
14:10:22 <Osai> because we had some problems with live server data in the sidebar at the openttdcoop blog
14:10:38 <Osai> I wrote a seperate update/cache script
14:10:50 <dihedral> there is no cache for that data
14:11:07 <Osai> because I took ages to connect and load data from the coop servers
14:11:20 <Osai> which meant in fact a website generation of more than 5 seconds
14:11:36 <dihedral> if it takes that long, something aint rigt
14:11:54 <Osai> therefor I cache the data now
14:12:11 <Osai> and update it every minute instead of every PI
14:12:15 <dihedral> the xml file has the structure to hold game data
14:12:22 <dihedral> though that has not been implemented
14:13:22 <Osai> OpenTTDLib looks really nice
14:13:28 <Osai> I like the server details
14:16:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
14:21:34 <dihedral> morons dont understand who they may slap and who not...
14:21:35 * Bjarni notes the first person to reply to a message given only to morons
14:21:44 <dihedral> hmmm... i did it again
14:22:02 <Bjarni> in an ideal world nobody would have replied at all since there wouldn't be anybody to greet
14:22:34 <Bjarni> by replying you openly admit to be morons :P
14:22:48 <dihedral> no - i just enjoy having an excuse to be slapping you
14:23:33 <Osai> dihedral: how do you integrate OpenTTDLib into a wp page?
14:23:50 <dihedral> i changed the templates
14:23:57 <dihedral> and added a custom template page
14:24:36 <dihedral> i edited the functions of the templates
14:24:50 <dihedral> one that only gets info for the sidebar
14:24:56 <dihedral> and one that gets everything
14:25:03 <dihedral> for the detail pages
14:25:42 <dihedral> then i define an array in the sidebar and loop over that (array contains host:port)
14:25:59 <dihedral> calling the function in a try catch
14:26:21 <dihedral> for the detail pages i have a template file that will split the title of the page
14:26:31 <dihedral> so the title of a detail page is host:port
14:26:52 <dihedral> and based on that it will fetch the data and a javascript replaces the title of the page with the name of the server
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14:29:13 <dihedral> Osai: you have a mac, right?
14:29:46 <dihedral> what ./configure arguments do you use for compiling ottd?
14:30:03 <dihedral> it always fails on mine with a midi issue
14:30:17 <Osai> which version do you have?
14:31:03 <Bjarni> the OSX port uses quicktime to play midi so midi issues from other platforms might not affect macs
14:31:07 <dihedral> the lovely 12" aluminum :-D
14:31:20 <Bjarni> you are saying that you have midi issues on mac?
14:31:30 <dihedral> no - it complains when compiling
14:31:35 <Bjarni> why haven't I been told?
14:31:52 <Bjarni> I fixed a midi issue yesterday
14:32:07 <TrueBrain> ammler: I am glad you like it ;)
14:32:12 <Bjarni> well... I fixed an issue where it complained in the midi player, but the problem was somewhere else
14:32:38 <dihedral> INT64_MAX' was not declared in this scope
14:33:16 <dihedral> well - this is 11333
14:33:28 <Bjarni> then it's another issue
14:34:44 <Phazorx> there are some building that have difference population costs when build/removed
14:34:45 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: and, was the desert any useful?
14:34:53 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: have not tried it
14:34:58 <Phazorx> dealing with this thing atm
14:35:07 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: that explains the negative values too, I guess
14:35:21 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: that explains how it get to be negatve
14:35:25 <Bjarni> maybe the citizen smells and makes everybody else run away as fast as possible
14:35:32 <Bjarni> leaving empty houses behind
14:35:38 <Phazorx> Bjarni: that's england not belgium :)
14:36:13 <Bjarni> maybe there is a new outbreak of myasma (or however you spell it)
14:36:36 <Phazorx> new game was released recently
14:36:48 <Phazorx> or soemtihng like that...
14:37:00 <Phazorx> obviously they went a bit trigger happy there
14:37:13 <Phazorx> but anwyay... since this is relevant to #wwottdgd would be nice to know the cure
14:37:18 <Phazorx> since i tried resetting towns
14:37:29 <Phazorx> ut they grew these building again after some time
14:37:56 <Bjarni> well, they had a problem in London where they thought that the smell of.. well.. poop combined with the fog made people ill so they built a sewer system to get rid of the smell and everybody got well so they had proven that theory
14:37:56 <TrueBrain> I can't really find what causes it
14:38:10 <TrueBrain> I guess you have to ask Belugas or Maedhros or maybe Rubidium or glx :p
14:38:26 <Bjarni> they later learned that the real reason why they got well afterwards was because they started to protect their drinking water from becoming contaminated
14:38:47 <Bjarni> anyway before the solution was found, everybody left London if they could
14:39:38 <Bjarni> dihedral: well... back to that midi issue... I can compile just fine in head revision. No midi issues
14:49:32 <Phazorx> is that one - default TTD building?
15:09:53 <dihedral> ich hier ich hier ich hier
15:10:58 <dihedral> me here me here me here
15:14:51 <Phazorx> Osai did you get midi thing resolved?
15:16:45 <dihedral> yep - worked for me too this time round
15:22:31 * Phazorx pings Belugas or Maedhros or maybe Rubidium or glx
15:24:22 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i get assert now when trying to join to #openttdcoop.dev server
15:24:55 <Phazorx> Vehicles: failed loading savegame: too many vehicles
15:25:05 <TrueBrain> are you all using the same patch?
15:25:21 <Phazorx> unless you chnaged it between 3 and 4 AM today - yes
15:25:31 <Phazorx> cuz 1st i updated serevr then my client
15:25:42 <TrueBrain> will check later what can cause it
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15:28:07 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: really, the only thing I can think up, is that the savegame is of an older patch
15:29:06 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i restarted the game
15:29:11 <Phazorx> and i played it before
15:29:31 <Phazorx> restarting meaning it is a new game with your v2.3
15:31:24 <Phazorx> i have way to many patched revisions
15:32:04 <dasy2k1> most of the time if you have loads of paches in its best to do a clean DL
15:32:16 <dasy2k1> then repach everything you want in again
15:35:08 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it here all works just fine
15:35:13 <TrueBrain> (with ONLY my patch applied)
15:37:03 <TrueBrain> funny side-effect: you can enter depots of the global company ;)
15:40:34 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: as long as one can exit them is fine
15:40:47 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: can uses use these depots tho?
15:41:12 <TrueBrain> they can only service in them
15:48:13 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: a feature request
15:48:41 <Phazorx> company should be only stop/reverse/bypass signals on it's own tracks
15:49:19 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: then nobody can control them on global track, so I guess that is a bad idea
15:50:20 <Phazorx> if you can stop/reverse = jam
15:50:36 <TrueBrain> but if something goes wrong on a junction, nobody can control it
15:50:48 <Phazorx> define something goes wrong on a junction ?
15:50:54 <TrueBrain> say a train gets stucked
15:51:04 <TrueBrain> you can't stop nor reverse such trains
15:51:09 <Phazorx> i'd really like to see that situation
15:51:21 <TrueBrain> if you played a bit coop, you should have seen plenty :)
15:51:28 <Phazorx> global company can deal with that with tracks
15:51:39 <Phazorx> i have seen stuck trains
15:51:45 <Phazorx> but i would not touch it to fix it
15:51:58 <TrueBrain> k, will see what I can do
15:52:22 <Phazorx> may be global should have some control?
15:52:39 <TrueBrain> would increase complexity with factor 2 to 3
15:57:36 <TrueBrain> non-global can't skip red, reverse, and something else I can't remember
15:58:14 <TrueBrain> when the owner of the train doesn't match the owner of the tile
15:58:35 <TrueBrain> this most likely means you can't get your train out of a depot :p
15:58:50 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: elaborate on that plz ?
15:59:01 <TrueBrain> you can't start/stop when the tile isn't the same owner as the train
15:59:04 <TrueBrain> depots tend to have that
15:59:08 <Phazorx> (by save-safe i mean prior saves can be reloaded
15:59:24 <TrueBrain> btw, it doesn't block on GUI
15:59:31 <TrueBrain> you get an error on pressing
15:59:48 <Phazorx> hmm... it says soemthing there tho ?
15:59:59 <Phazorx> i mean it is descriptive error
16:00:30 <Phazorx> can depots be controled a bit ?
16:00:38 <Phazorx> it would be nice to be able to release your trains
16:00:46 <Phazorx> or they are gonna stay there captured forever
16:01:11 <Phazorx> i guess no depots for global fixes that ?
16:01:48 <TrueBrain> k, I can't disable it for GUI
16:01:51 <TrueBrain> so you just get an error :p
16:02:03 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I think that is the only real fix ;)
16:02:35 <TrueBrain> k, found a simple way
16:02:53 <Phazorx> what about cargo ownership at global stations?
16:03:03 <Phazorx> does cargo actualy have an owner?
16:03:29 <TrueBrain> it only has 'transfer' information, per owner
16:03:39 *** Tino|Home has joined #openttd
16:04:03 <Phazorx> i'm trying to figure out what actualy happens when A unloads cargo at globa sttaion
16:04:12 <Phazorx> and B want to pick it up
16:04:15 <TrueBrain> cargo is then owned by global
16:04:34 <TrueBrain> and he 100% owns it
16:04:35 <Phazorx> what will be source to be payed for in that case?
16:04:50 <TrueBrain> from where A picked it up
16:05:02 <Phazorx> and if instead of unloading it trasnfers?
16:05:10 <TrueBrain> then everyone gets its share
16:05:16 <Phazorx> same origina but different transfer credit?
16:06:35 <Phazorx> heh so depots will stay off limits ?
16:06:50 <TrueBrain> if I update my diff that is
16:07:07 <TrueBrain> you can start/stop in depots now
16:07:16 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
16:08:28 <Phazorx> i guess it is a good idea to have signal right after depot
16:08:45 <TrueBrain> why? A depot has an internal signal
16:09:13 <Phazorx> but you can skip red as owner
16:09:31 <TrueBrain> not in depots of global
16:09:33 <TrueBrain> you can only start/stop
16:09:41 <Phazorx> in that case perfeoct
16:09:49 <Phazorx> i was thinking you still have all that functionality tied
16:12:41 <Phazorx> well... any more features coming?
16:13:04 <Phazorx> need a version bump then :)
16:13:30 <skidd13> Am I correct? UINT32_MAX == 0xFFFFFFFFU
16:13:43 <TrueBrain> skidd13: -1, yes :p
16:13:48 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i kidna like idea of changes to be reflected in name
16:13:51 <Phazorx> so it is less confusing
16:14:03 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: oh, like that. I just bumped it when the savegame changed :)
16:14:17 <Phazorx> there is a reason why it is r11337 and not v0.6beta
16:14:20 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: v3 is there
16:14:35 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: you are 100% right :)
16:14:52 <TrueBrain> skidd13: (uint32)((int32)-1) = 0xFFFFFFFF
16:15:09 <TrueBrain> which is UINT32_MAX
16:15:41 <TrueBrain> (computers work with two-complement, where (byte)-1 is defined as 0xFF)
16:16:32 <ammler> [18:16] <Phazorx> there is a reason why it is r11337 and not v0.6beta <-- hmm?
16:17:56 <Phazorx> ammler: that's why there are dozens of querstions about your updated updates
16:18:06 <Phazorx> you change content w/o chaging name
16:18:16 <Phazorx> so people who already ahve it assume they have it
16:18:32 <glx> ammler: you didn't try to draw bigger flags?
16:18:40 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I'm thinking over the syncronisation of mersenne. As far as I can see the pointer needs mostly to be synced. Only if the pointer runs out of the array we need to sync the seed (of cause at beginning and at save too).
16:19:04 <skidd13> ammler: I prefer the one without the whites
16:19:05 <ammler> I tried to take the flags from famfamfam, but doesn't look nice
16:21:30 *** |Bastiaan| has joined #openttd
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16:30:12 <TrueBrain> skidd13: remember you can't compare pointers, if that is what you mean
16:30:20 <TrueBrain> only content can be compared
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16:34:29 <skidd13> I meant the position of the pointer in the array.
16:36:00 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
16:36:38 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: works fine
16:37:07 <Phazorx> we already came up with a tactic if non global company trys to block SL with queue of traisn even
16:41:51 *** |Bastiaan| has joined #openttd
16:42:00 <Ammler> or helping him to build his SL right :)
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16:43:54 <Ammler> It would also be fun, if every region has a kind of industry missing and would need to get it from an other...
16:45:14 <Phazorx> Ammler: capture depot
16:45:35 <Phazorx> Ammler: if you can disable industry spawning - can be done
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16:45:46 <Phazorx> but that puts a lot more pressuire on global
16:45:56 <Phazorx> since they need to have global transport of everything
16:46:08 <Phazorx> but with PBI - will be very challenging
16:48:14 <Kommer> yes, but you will need a lot of ppl in the global company then to provide everything
16:48:42 <Kommer> or the global company will only supply connections between the regions, and only to the borders
16:49:12 <Phazorx> Kommer: that splits functionaliy of global then
16:49:20 <Phazorx> instead onf one unified network
16:49:41 <Phazorx> as well as one big for goods/pax (prtobably later and based on ice/transrapids
16:49:51 <Phazorx> hylje: we are talkign about shared patch for #wwottdgd game
16:50:07 <Phazorx> check #openttdcoop.dev
16:50:39 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:50:49 <Phazorx> dihedral told me to ask you how grf thing going
17:03:33 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11338 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1359]: water tiles not at sealevel (i.e. canals) should not be owned by water as that signals normal water.
17:04:02 <Phazorx> Rubidium: got TTRs/houses questions
17:04:58 <Phazorx> Rubidium: care to look at it?
17:06:16 <Phazorx> yes... and building that have mroe citizen in then when you delete them than when you build them
17:07:59 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
17:10:05 <Bjarni> city dwellers all act like zombies
17:13:34 <Ammler> not zombi, just children, that why there are more on demolishing...
17:15:20 <Ammler> whats a "Volkszählung" in english?
17:16:02 <Ammler> is needed after demolishing a house...
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17:56:09 * TrueBrain hates pings without reason
17:57:46 <Phazorx> 1st stopping takes time
17:57:58 <Phazorx> a player can stop a rtrain right before entering global tracks
17:58:06 <Phazorx> and it rolls in and stops in global
17:58:10 <Phazorx> so it can not be started again
17:58:48 <Phazorx> reason number relevant as well, a player can ignore 1st signal on global track
17:58:50 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: told you it wasn't a good idea ;)
17:59:20 <TrueBrain> it indeed can, the ignore penalty works for N ticks
17:59:23 <Phazorx> yeah well stopping trains on not owned tracks is still not a really good thing
17:59:30 <TrueBrain> the latter is unfixable for Saturday
17:59:33 <TrueBrain> the other I can fix
17:59:48 <Phazorx> signals can be dealt with if i put 2 of them
18:00:06 <Phazorx> so 2 signals on entry makes it more fool proof
18:00:21 <TrueBrain> or place the signal not on the first, but on the second tile
18:00:33 <Ammler> there is no reason for forbid trains to start on global track, is there?
18:00:41 <TrueBrain> Ammler: exactly that I just changed
18:00:44 <TrueBrain> starting can, stopping can't
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18:01:03 <TrueBrain> oh, it is him again
18:01:46 <dihedral> i really like your patch
18:01:53 <TrueBrain> that makes me happy :)
18:02:14 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: v4 is up, fixed the start/stop problem
18:02:15 <dihedral> when i stop a train in a shared block
18:02:31 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: let us find more issues 1st :)
18:02:53 <dihedral> TrueBrain: could you disable the 'ignore signal' button for train on shared tracks?
18:03:02 <TrueBrain> dihedral: you were telling me about the desync
18:03:10 <TrueBrain> and you were very unclear, I was hoping you continued
18:03:14 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: he cant compile really on his mac
18:03:37 <TrueBrain> really, this discusion isn't really clear
18:04:10 <Phazorx> that is "global" station
18:04:11 <dihedral> _my_ train in _Phazorx_ station
18:04:19 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I read you the first time
18:04:44 <dihedral> just being _clear_ :-D
18:04:53 <dihedral> my client will desync
18:05:00 <TrueBrain> and if you continue talking this slow, I just go and do my other work
18:05:06 <Phazorx> if Kommer does same he does not
18:05:10 <dihedral> actually my client in my company, and my other client as spectator
18:05:11 <TrueBrain> dihedral: can you stop your train on normal rail?
18:05:14 <dihedral> both desync at the same time
18:05:24 <TrueBrain> (shared normal rail)
18:05:31 <dihedral> i'll give that a try
18:07:46 <dihedral> but it takes a few seconds
18:07:53 <TrueBrain> okay, how am I going to put this nicely...
18:08:07 <TrueBrain> please, go away, and don't come back with any more 'bug' reports, until you all use the same patch version
18:08:11 <TrueBrain> this is just wasting my time :p
18:08:43 <dihedral> sorry - only knew of the one
18:08:57 <TrueBrain> yeah, no problem, but it is annoying :p
18:09:05 <TrueBrain> you just don't have v3 loaded :p
18:09:06 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you better change some stuff in rev.cpp.in each patch ;)
18:09:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, I guess... I was in the assumption they were clever enough ;)
18:09:36 <TrueBrain> but okay, that truly is my mistake, to think it would be that easy to use the same patch version. It simply isn't, not even for me :)
18:09:53 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: maybe compile the server with a postfix of the patch-version
18:10:26 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: he just failed to read the topic in channel
18:10:39 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: topics aren't the best reference :)
18:10:45 <Rubidium> Phazorx: people always fail to read what they should read
18:11:14 <TrueBrain> I myself complained (a lot) about the unreadability of wwottdgd, so I can understand dihedral makes this mistake :)
18:12:06 <Phazorx> we'll get to single binarey and single GRF pack when we have all ingridients
18:12:14 <dihedral> anyhow - i may manytimes learn that assumptions are BAD
18:12:38 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I will make a openttd.org news post by that time :p
18:12:39 <dihedral> and TrueBrain - i never mean to annoy you :-P
18:12:41 <TrueBrain> no way any sooner :)
18:12:50 <Ammler> hmm, maybe we could pack the grfs also in the ottd build?
18:12:54 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I know I know :) I just wanted it to sound a bit melodramatic ;)
18:13:07 <TrueBrain> Ammler: the compile-farm allows such actions
18:13:32 <TrueBrain> (the MiniIN worked via patches and addition grf-files before it was in SVN)
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18:17:17 <qkr> so I want to add a new setting to the patches section, what all files I need to edit?
18:17:28 <dihedral> TrueBrain: did you hear back from the guy who wanted to do a road ai?
18:17:37 <TrueBrain> qkr: pick a random other patch entry, and search the code
18:17:43 <TrueBrain> then it is just a matter of following the white rabbit
18:17:50 * dihedral was thinking the same
18:17:50 <TrueBrain> dihedral: of course not :p
18:18:07 <qkr> like say "ai_disable_veh_train" and search that?
18:18:14 <TrueBrain> qkr: as good as any other
18:18:53 <dihedral> of course one had to pick the longest one available
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18:19:25 <Phazorx> this will be very sad if for #wwottdgd we'll have towns with negative population :(
18:19:34 <Wolf01> oh, time to sell 50 vehicles with one click
18:20:11 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: a bit weird bug, if you ask me
18:20:42 <qkr> the AI is a bit weak in openttd so as a "fix" I'm gonna add a patch to allow setting modifier for AI vehicle price, like say 80%
18:21:08 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: tell me about it :|
18:21:17 <Ammler> but that is a known one, I remeber to see that some time ago...
18:21:45 <Ammler> Phazorx: did you check bugs.openttd.org?
18:22:29 <Phazorx> i dont ever recall us hitting any issues like that
18:22:38 <Phazorx> with ttrs and many towns we had in many coop games
18:22:39 <dihedral> Wolf01: how's your sprites coming along?
18:23:05 <Wolf01> you can see the last state in the topic :P
18:23:52 <qkr> will it break anything if I edit the patches file? like compability with the settings file
18:24:02 <qkr> edit the patches struct I mean
18:24:07 <Phazorx> this is not ChrisIN bug apparently
18:27:02 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: can you make a test-case, with the exact grf causing it, and on a 64x64 map?
18:27:42 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: no idea how to reproduce it realyably?
18:27:47 <Phazorx> it is TTRS most liekly
18:27:56 <TrueBrain> 64x64 map, and do like you did on the image
18:27:58 <Phazorx> since as can be seen on my screenshot
18:28:01 <TrueBrain> grow a town, and kill certain buildings
18:28:13 <Phazorx> problem is caused by removal of non ttrs buildings
18:28:33 <Phazorx> which means no default buildings
18:28:51 <Phazorx> i have a hinch though
18:29:00 <Phazorx> my map started one day before 1920
18:29:14 <Phazorx> ttrs may not have buildings for before time
18:29:29 <dihedral> i think it does, does it not?
18:29:43 <Ammler> Error: Vehicles: failed loading savegame: too many vehicles
18:29:43 <Ammler> openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-devserver/src/openttd.cpp:110: void error(const char
18:29:43 <Ammler> *, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
18:29:44 <TrueBrain> find it out, and report that ;)
18:30:16 <Phazorx> dihedral: ttrs era starts at 1920
18:30:31 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i will if 1335 gets reopen
18:30:34 <Phazorx> so i can comment there
18:30:37 <Phazorx> and post screens/saves
18:30:49 <TrueBrain> you know, make a new bug-report :p
18:30:53 <dihedral> Phazorx: well - then, that answers my question :-)
18:30:56 <TrueBrain> the summary sucks :p
18:37:19 <dihedral> TrueBrain: what if i stop a train on _my_ tracks, with enough waggons attatched to the train, so they reach into the _global_ tracks?
18:37:28 <TrueBrain> dihedral: ask Phazorx :)
18:37:52 <Wolf01> i can't understand one thing: i have 4 vehicles always stopped for loading at a coal mine, the power plant is 20 tiles away, so a vehicle should not take so much for the travel (always less than a month)... the production is low, 72 with 66% transported... why?
18:37:55 <dihedral> just thought perhaps you could add that check , as it's possible
18:38:00 <Phazorx> dihedral: nothing really
18:38:04 <Phazorx> if you create a pileup
18:38:11 <dihedral> it truns the signals red
18:38:18 <Phazorx> i'll remove one of global signals between your trains
18:38:23 <Phazorx> so they will all go into depot
18:38:28 <Phazorx> and you will HAVE to sel them
18:38:40 <Phazorx> that is a form of punishment for doing soemthing stoopid liek that
18:39:03 <Phazorx> i'll set a rul for global company
18:39:08 <Phazorx> to make dedicated hubs per company
18:39:19 <Phazorx> so you can only mess up your own SL and trains
18:39:20 <dihedral> just did not want it to go 'unthought of'
18:39:33 <Phazorx> and made a test for kommer :)
18:39:46 <Wolf01> Rubidium, vehicle still get value of 0 also when renewed ;_;
18:43:28 <Kommer> I have a 'bug' for the shared tracks patch
18:43:35 <Kommer> well. not 'for'. i found one
18:44:00 <Kommer> When a non-global train never leaves the global network, he never pays anything for the usage of the network
18:44:21 <TrueBrain> not a bug, but by-design
18:44:37 <TrueBrain> as for wwottdgd, that behavoir is fine
18:44:59 <Kommer> yes ok, but it is exploitable :)
18:46:46 *** Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|Work
18:48:40 <Phazorx> Kommer: it is also preventable
18:49:01 <Phazorx> actualy let me verify that
18:49:17 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: can global WPs be targeted by other companies?
18:49:25 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: don't think so
18:49:37 <TrueBrain> I hate waypoints, so I never tested them :p
18:49:50 <Phazorx> Kommer: in that case i put a WP on a way "global only" station
18:49:56 <Phazorx> and make that route undesirable
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18:50:09 <Kommer> well ok, but other companies can target the station itself
18:50:34 <Phazorx> unless it is on separated network
18:50:37 <Kommer> so the global company just shouldnt have any stations
18:50:54 <Phazorx> it should have only one kind of stations
18:51:06 <Phazorx> and not have any pickups
18:51:18 <Phazorx> so you can only drop at global stations
18:51:30 <Kommer> well. you need to pickup stuff there also..
18:52:13 <Kommer> so maybe the global company just should only facilitate a global network and nothing more.
18:52:40 <Phazorx> Kommer: you build your pickup if you need to pickup
18:54:11 <Phazorx> pickups are more tricking sicne they need waiting room and such
18:54:18 <Phazorx> so it better be out of globals hands
18:54:47 <Brandinger> i've got a little question: is it possible to automatically let trains loading in a station leave, when a parallel train arrives? so that not two trains load the same units and block the station?
18:55:08 <Phazorx> Brandinger: sounds like you have a layout issue
18:55:36 <Phazorx> but you can have trains leave when another enters if you use timetables and calculate presizely the schedule that does it
18:55:39 <Bjarni> Brandinger: yes if you place the signals correctly
18:56:15 <Bjarni> oh now I get what you mean.... make the train load until another one arrive so only one will be present at any time
18:56:20 <Brandinger> i think my signaling is quite good. but when i decide to use one more train because production rose
18:56:43 <Brandinger> or make the station serve the trains by the order of ther arrival and not justice :)
18:56:46 <Bjarni> maybe schedules can help you, but they will not do precisely what you ask for
18:58:15 <Brandinger> be back in a second...
18:59:44 <Phazorx> Brandinger: proper way is having only as many platforms as many trains need to be loading to deal with production
18:59:51 <Phazorx> also you might want to toggle improved loading
19:00:07 <Phazorx> so only one train gets cargo if there is less cargo than room for it on one train
19:02:04 *** Brandinger2 has joined #openttd
19:05:36 <Brandinger2> yes the situation would be, that i transport units from a to b with 2 train (shared orders). now production rises, i duplicate a third train. since the train could load more than the new overproduction the constant in-and-out of the trains gets irregulary (due to full load). a short while later i have three trains loading in the station, one nearly full, one have full and one nearly empty.
19:06:28 <Rubidium> enable improved loading; makes them load in a fifo manner instead of gigo
19:06:41 <Brandinger2> it would not be a problem if the station gives the units only to the earliest arriver till he is full.
19:06:55 <Brandinger2> is that a option?
19:07:05 <Rubidium> somewhere in the patches under stations IIRC
19:07:31 <Brandinger2> cool! :D i'll try that
19:07:34 <Prof_Frink> Brandinger2: And if there's enough cargo to fill two trains?
19:07:38 <Rubidium> though when you're playing with a stable (i.e. 0.5.3) improved loading and gradual loading do not play together
19:08:10 <Rubidium> well... it works, but it's getting slow with a lot of vehicles
19:08:29 <glx> better to don't mix these settings
19:11:47 <Wolf01> eeek i found some thiefs on a station
19:12:14 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11339 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Add: autoroad; same as autorail, but for road and trams and only on X and Y direction. Patch by Octopussy and skidd13.
19:12:18 <Bjarni> who would want to steal a station?
19:12:40 <Wolf01> no, somebody stole the 3% of a transferred cargo
19:13:10 <Bjarni> you mean in real life?
19:13:30 <Wolf01> do you measure cargo in % in real life?
19:14:05 <Wolf01> i always thought that transferred cargo don't disappear when left in a station
19:14:21 <Prof_Frink> Wolf01: 5% is usually about right.
19:19:18 <Brandinger2> hm .. probably people ask you that every day, but is there a way to upgrade you tracks automatically without rebuilding everything?
19:19:42 <Prof_Frink> track upgrade tool?
19:19:44 <Wolf01> there is a tool in every rail toolbar
19:20:01 <Prof_Frink> But no, there's no equivalent to cht:tracks
19:20:38 <Brandinger2> ok, stupid me. found it :)
19:20:56 <Brandinger2> its not automatic but still very useful ^^
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19:21:28 <Prof_Frink> The main annoyance is the inability to upgrade depots with trains in
19:21:30 <Wolf01> any chance to improve it?
19:23:07 <Brandinger2> ok, thanks again for your help. i'm off.
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19:32:40 <dyron> Hi, can i change the starting date after i start it?
19:33:02 <blathijs> You want to change the current date?
19:33:16 <Bjarni> only in the cheat menu, but then you will be marked as cheater
19:33:17 <dyron> I started at 1900, but can't build anything besides streets :/
19:33:35 <blathijs> why not just restart?
19:34:00 <dyron> Because i like the generated map...
19:34:25 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
19:34:25 <hylje> dyron: i think TGP keeps the old seed around
19:34:39 <Bjarni> disable full animation and resize the screen to something very small
19:34:44 <Bjarni> and fast forward for a while
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19:35:56 <dyron> Whatever.. i start again. Thanks for the info :)
19:39:30 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: station thingie carried over to airports and bus/tram and probably ports
19:39:41 <Phazorx> with only difference that airpots can not be landed at
19:40:09 <Phazorx> can we make global company to be the only one able to build airports and all companies be able to use them ?
19:41:04 <Phazorx> not sure about ports tho
19:41:15 <Phazorx> also, can there be a way to make "dedicated global" stations ?
19:41:29 <Phazorx> or that is complex thorugh the roof
19:42:03 <Phazorx> like only stations that are named in certain way are avaiable?
19:42:15 <TrueBrain> code-forcing that is harder
19:42:22 <TrueBrain> but I would make a 100% seperate lines for shared usage
19:42:43 <Phazorx> well, unified network for all is very nice idea
19:42:50 <TrueBrain> so, BuildAirport should only be available for company 0?
19:42:54 <Phazorx> only stations separated would be nice
19:43:30 <Phazorx> and stations - we dont want third party company vehciles using shared tracks between global stations and never leaving them to pay
19:44:09 <Phazorx> hence segregating some station not to be usable to other companies can prevent that
19:45:01 <Phazorx> name hack can be don ast stistr on first characters
19:45:41 <Phazorx> space folowed by capsed GLOBAL is selectable
19:45:51 <Phazorx> other stations can not be targeted
19:45:58 <Phazorx> sounds like a case of adding an if there
19:47:28 <Belugas> " GLOBAL" seems like a very bad scheme... why not add a bool to the struct? seems to be a lot safer and cleaner
19:47:43 <TrueBrain> Belugas: this is kind of on an other level ;)
19:48:12 <Belugas> ho... like... the thell i'm talking aout.... like... i should go back to work ASAP
19:50:35 <TrueBrain> I love segfaults :)
19:54:15 <Ammler> TrueBrain: will this patch ever go to trunk? :)
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19:56:58 <TrueBrain> I have difficulties telling OpenTTD what I want it to do
19:57:01 <Wolf01> is nice to see how the old ai abuses of the new bridges feature
19:57:15 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: anyway, my idea was to not allow other companies to pass waypoints of the global
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20:07:01 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: lol, trains don't pick a direction on global junctions.. or at leasT: not here in the situation I ahve :p
20:11:32 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I am suprised you didn't notice this bug yet...
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20:13:48 <qkr> what's the best place to add a modifier for vehicle's price?
20:16:22 * LN- è arrivato volver di channel de la openttd.
20:16:47 <Prof_Frink> ln-'s been capitalised!
20:17:31 <LN-> Prof_Frink: the caps lock day, and besides too many people think my nick is "In".
20:17:50 <TrueBrain> who btw thought up this idiot 'capslock' day?
20:18:28 <LN-> i vote for sacro or bjarni
20:19:33 <Prof_Frink> See, I'm obeying Capslock Day and making good use of Shift.
20:19:54 <TrueBrain> I forgot that a train without orders always goes straight
20:20:00 <TrueBrain> took me 20 minutes to figure that out :(
20:20:47 <Belugas> qkr, what do you mean?
20:21:00 <Belugas> what is a modifier, for you?
20:21:11 <qkr> a multiplier that I added to patches
20:21:17 <Belugas> have you heard of grfs?
20:22:05 <Belugas> you can change a vehicle's property quite easily this way
20:22:26 <Belugas> given that you are good enough to make it all up :)
20:22:31 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: v5 is up, 2 things changes: Global Waypoints are NOT accessable by any other player but the global company, and other companies can't build airports
20:22:50 <Belugas> like, reading and understanding the concepts of the nfo
20:22:53 <TrueBrain> so use waypoints to disallow access
20:23:19 <Rubidium> Belugas: only one issue... it doesn't allow for different costs between AIs and non-AIs
20:23:24 <TrueBrain> now I have to unlock the option to build airplanes I guess ;)
20:23:25 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: how exactly it will disallow acces?
20:23:38 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: waypoints are not accessable
20:23:39 <Phazorx> and can other companiy planes land at global airports?
20:23:50 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: but station behind them can be selected?
20:23:52 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: dunno :p But they can't buy airplanes ;)
20:24:00 <TrueBrain> but it can't get there, so...
20:24:04 <qkr> I don't know how these grf files work, but I'm looking for a solution that I could change in the code...
20:24:22 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: err... that wasnt quite the idea... i kinda suggested usable global airports, where other companies can do thing
20:24:32 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: really?! :p
20:24:33 <Rubidium> qkr: "easiest" way to let an AI pay less for (basically) everything would be modifying SubstractMoneyFromPlayer (or something names like that)
20:24:42 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I understood, but I just noticed that they can't yet :p
20:24:42 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: you didnt like name hack idea i take it ?
20:24:47 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: tricky and slow
20:25:15 <Phazorx> is there more than just one iff statetemnt when at sekection stage?
20:25:26 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: strings are stored a bit magicly :)
20:25:36 <TrueBrain> and personally I like this solution more ;)
20:25:40 <Phazorx> it alawys comes down to bytes and them being compared
20:25:54 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: well it is a bit hackish i guess
20:25:59 <Phazorx> since WPs arent the best tactic
20:26:04 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it is more clear :)
20:26:12 <Phazorx> requires stations have entries only one lane wide
20:26:23 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: why? Put them next to eachother
20:26:40 <Phazorx> but dont route trains through them explicitly?
20:26:49 <Phazorx> so they ownly act as blockers for other trains
20:26:56 <Phazorx> and these trasins have achance of getting stuck there?
20:27:18 <Phazorx> say there is a road work ahead or a jam
20:27:30 <Phazorx> and yapf desides that routing thorugh station is a godoe idea
20:27:38 <TrueBrain> it can't route past waypoints
20:27:39 <Phazorx> so these trins will get to tile right before the WP
20:27:40 <Belugas> Rubidium, how do you see a difference of cost between ai and non? Why should there be one? Just asking
20:27:54 <TrueBrain> (YAPF things the rail ends there)
20:28:08 <Phazorx> yapf ebhavses a bit weird whet it comes to "no route where i want to go"
20:28:09 <TrueBrain> it doesn't even detect it as WP
20:28:13 <Phazorx> and players still can selectr that station
20:28:16 <Rubidium> Belugas: that's whar qkr is trying to do
20:28:28 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: this is what I can do for you :) I still suggest to name stations like you said
20:28:30 <TrueBrain> and make it a policy
20:28:46 <Phazorx> policy will be there for sure
20:28:46 <Ammler> TrueBrain: I would trash the no airport building thing...
20:28:51 <Phazorx> but not really enforced it seems
20:28:55 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: for next time, I suggest to make a long long long long list with those things, and I am sure I can cook something better :)
20:29:13 <TrueBrain> then I might even have time to make nice GUI thingies for it :)
20:29:17 <qkr> rubidium: thanks for the tip, I'm looking for a slightly better solution where you will actually see the modified price in the "buy vehicle" screen etc
20:29:17 <TrueBrain> and do what Belugas suggested ;)
20:29:24 <Belugas> well... the question remains the same... why having two kind of cost ??
20:29:26 <Ammler> and just allow airplanes to land on global airports
20:29:35 <TrueBrain> Ammler: that already should be possible :)
20:29:52 <TrueBrain> Ammler: all I now need to do, is unlock the option to build airplanes at the global hanger
20:30:23 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: that would be great
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20:30:36 <Phazorx> Ammler: what do you think about global only stations and WPs ?
20:30:45 <Ammler> if that doesn't work, we make a simple rule for guys
20:32:02 <Ammler> I don't get for what you like to use a global only station
20:32:09 <Ammler> I like the WP thing better
20:32:18 <Ammler> so you could make something like a transfer
20:32:50 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> who btw thought up this idiot 'capslock' day?
20:32:50 <Bjarni> <LN-> i vote for sacro or bjarni <-- no I didn't
20:32:58 <Bjarni> besides my nick is Bjarni, not bjarni
20:33:17 <Phazorx> Ammler: only global stations will permit having some trains at choice of global company moving goods by global company only
20:33:36 <Phazorx> not having global stations permits having "always on shared" trains of any other company
20:33:46 <Phazorx> that never leave these tracks and hence never pay
20:34:03 <Phazorx> say we make steel transfer
20:34:08 <Ammler> yep but that wouldn't work with global stations
20:34:09 <Phazorx> between spain and poland
20:34:20 <Phazorx> so steel goes 1000 tiles all way accross europe
20:34:40 <Phazorx> iberia company delivers steel to terminal from somewhere on their territory
20:34:49 <Phazorx> golbal train takes it to poland and transfers there
20:34:55 <Ammler> anyway, you can do that with wps too
20:35:01 <Phazorx> and the baltic company trains do final delivery of steel there
20:35:20 <Ammler> so you can use it for both
20:35:28 <Phazorx> but with WPs you do not stop iberia compnay train targetiing warsaw steel terminal
20:35:33 <Phazorx> even though it can never get there
20:35:38 <Bjarni> Phazorx: what is the avg speed of that train though Europe?
20:35:41 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: they will notice sooner or later
20:35:43 <Bjarni> 16 km/h like in real life?
20:35:49 <Phazorx> so these trains can floood gkllobal net and always will be stuck soemwhere there
20:36:02 <Phazorx> Bjarni: probably a bit faster
20:36:25 <Ammler> they need more then a year to get from one to an other end
20:36:27 * Bjarni considers all the mandatory stops insane
20:36:36 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: noticing 500 random trains poluting global net is not soemthing where i'd like to get
20:36:42 <Bjarni> rails can never complete with lorries if they go that slow
20:36:45 <LN-> someone had better fix it then
20:36:51 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I doubt anyone will do it anyway
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20:37:21 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: have you evetr explored limits of human stu[idity that lies on the other side of " I doubt anyone will do it anyway" ?
20:37:34 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: this games runs for 48h, right?
20:37:52 <TrueBrain> hmm, aircraft flies
20:37:55 <TrueBrain> but refuses to land
20:38:03 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: we noticed that :)
20:38:23 <Phazorx> Ammler/TrueBrain in general i like idea of enforcing rules and rpeventing problems
20:38:46 <Phazorx> a solution "they will not ever do that" and "someone will noticer the problem eventualy" aer not quite acceptable
20:38:56 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it is the best I can do for you
20:39:09 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: name matching is totaly impossible?
20:39:16 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: no time for it
20:39:20 <Bjarni> player stupidity..... in Imperialism 1 they found a bug. In combat if you clicked the button to finish the battle on auto complete, then the computer would take over and finish the battle in no time. Clicking it twice didn't do anything... somebody reported that clicking it really fast more than 30 times would crash the game
20:39:29 <Ammler> TrueBrain: if the plane building thing is too hard, just remove the "notbuildingairport"
20:39:42 <Bjarni> they didn't want to fix this bug, but wrote that people should not do this because it makes no sense to do so
20:39:58 <Ammler> aircraft isn't really the most important thing...
20:40:08 <Phazorx> Bjarni: there is an old russian/jewish joke
20:40:14 <Bjarni> that software company is no more, but I don't think this bug had anything to do with that
20:40:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: it just annoys me I can't find it :p
20:40:42 <Bjarni> I still wonder who could be stupid enough to find that bug :P
20:41:05 <Phazorx> a patient comes to see a GP with a complaint - When i do with my hanads like that, it hurts here! doctor says - well do you ahve to do with your hands like that often? - not really - then dont do it!"
20:42:53 <Ammler> hmm, maybe we should start later will be loong to travel through 2048 tiles with 70kmh
20:43:03 <Bjarni> sounds somewhat like "a man goes to the doctor and says: when I press my finger against my forehead, it hurts. When I press it against my chest, it hurts, when I press it against my knee it hurts. I think I'm dying". The doctor takes a look and says "you fool. You hurt your finger"
20:43:26 <Bjarni> except your story fits the bug report better
20:43:35 <Phazorx> Ammler: and what kind of goods you wnt to take that far?
20:43:54 <Phazorx> Bjarni: in all fairness
20:44:00 <Phazorx> targeting wrong station
20:44:18 <LN-> Bjarni: what's your rank?
20:44:19 <AntB> has anyone got a GIMP palette i can use for TTD?
20:44:24 <Phazorx> is much more easy to make mistake than click the buttong 30 times to figure out if soemtihng is gonna crash afterwards
20:44:46 <Phazorx> Bjarni: well i'm talking about shared station patch
20:44:58 <Phazorx> and global dedicated stations that arent availabel to other companies
20:45:04 <TrueBrain> v6 is up, fixes airports
20:45:12 <TrueBrain> globals can build them, others can buy, service, and fly them
20:45:13 <Bjarni> <LN-> Bjarni: what's your rank? <-- master of my computer
20:45:20 <Bjarni> well, that's just one of them :)
20:45:38 <Bjarni> do you think I'm that stupid? :P
20:45:54 <Bjarni> <LN-> Bjarni: what's your rank? <-- operator
20:46:00 <qkr> where's the code to buy new vehicle?
20:46:06 <Bjarni> look at the client list and you should notice this
20:46:27 <Bjarni> qkr: in (vehicle_type=_cmd.cpp
20:46:58 <Bjarni> there is one for each vehicle type
20:47:02 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: the best solution would have been a switch on the global station which said: global or not. But, simply, no time
20:47:20 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: that is complex and best i agree
20:47:27 <Phazorx> which is a major overhaul of whoel thing
20:47:40 <Phazorx> and if done should be made expandale as bitmask
20:47:43 <Bjarni> qkr: commonly referred to as "the build vehicle commands", hence the function names ;)
20:47:44 <Phazorx> for all comanies usage
20:48:03 <Phazorx> however for this case - any way to signify that this station is global would work
20:48:03 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: really, sometimes I wonder which language you speak :)
20:48:26 <qkr> I can't even find that file
20:48:40 <TrueBrain> anyway, let me know any bugs
20:48:46 <TrueBrain> or if you have a server running with v6
20:48:48 <TrueBrain> I like to see it :p
20:48:54 <Bjarni> qkr: look for ship_cmd.cpp, road_veh_cmd.cpp and so on
20:48:59 <Phazorx> i ommit a lot of punctuation and mix letter orders since i type kidna fast
20:49:07 <Bjarni> there are 4 vehicle types, so it's 4 files you would have to look for
20:49:12 <Phazorx> i hope it is somewhat comprehendable in general though
20:49:25 * AntB pokes anyone who uses GIMP
20:49:48 <Bjarni> it's cpp in the svn checkout
20:49:55 <Ammler> AntB: now, I know, why the german flag was so ugly...
20:49:56 <Bjarni> .c is last stable release and is outdated
20:50:09 <LN-> isn't it true that there is only one german F1 champion?
20:50:14 <qkr> I'm using the 0.5.3 source
20:50:22 <Ammler> you need a palette for TTD
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20:51:04 <Bjarni> qkr: when you want to make new stuff for the game you should make an svn checkout and work on that source. If you code on old code like that it will not work with the current code the rest of us work on
20:51:04 <AntB> i thought it was UK flag you was having problems with anyway?
20:51:37 <TrueBrain> how is mersenna going?
20:51:52 <Ammler> AntB: I have just decoded flags.grf and overwritten the american flag and encoded it after
20:52:06 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I got the exit code: j--
20:52:41 <qkr> but does it matter which version I use if I just play around with it, I'm not planning to release it anywhere?
20:52:41 <skidd13> The style sucks. The author could have added the != 0
20:52:52 <AntB> do you have a GIMP TTD palete ammler?
20:53:14 <Ammler> thats why the german flag was ugly
20:53:15 <skidd13> AntB: search the forum I posted one onece
20:53:36 <AntB> skidd: already have, but i'll try again
20:54:06 <Bjarni> qkr: if you really don't want to make your great new feature publicly available, then you can use any version you like, but why limit your usergroup for your new feature to yourself?
20:55:19 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
20:55:28 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: slighty more ugly but better idea than names - how about tract direction - X vs Y ?
20:55:49 <TrueBrain> why are you so afraid
20:55:52 <TrueBrain> it will be okay, really
20:56:04 <TrueBrain> nobody is going to sent 1000 trains to a station it can't access
20:56:08 <TrueBrain> every dumb-shit-head will notice
20:56:31 <Phazorx> well i quite often start improving network by removing few hundredss of uneeded trains that just use network w/o getting to where they want
20:56:39 <Phazorx> and if that can be rpevented i think it should
20:56:51 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: so, make a penalty rule
20:56:55 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> nobody is going to sent 1000 trains to a station it can't access <--- watch and learn :P
20:56:55 <Phazorx> becasue global company will dedicate a lot of time to expanding the network to deal with trasin stream
20:56:59 <TrueBrain> make a mouse-catcher
20:57:13 <Phazorx> and if train stream is majority = lost trains that get no there, the task sounds kinda silly
20:57:17 <TrueBrain> you have: switch at end of station off?
20:57:21 <Bjarni> since the game is available on the internet then expect user stupidity
20:57:45 <TrueBrain> then make a piece of station everyone can access, make a closed circle at the end of it
20:57:51 <TrueBrain> and any dipshit sending its train there, is captured
20:58:09 <Phazorx> and how traisn that should get there avoid that ?
20:58:19 <Wolf01> bug! a bank appeared in the middle of nowhere
20:58:25 <TrueBrain> details, just details
20:58:26 <Phazorx> that soudbns like even more nasty than direcion based seelection
20:58:28 <qkr> bjarni: I don't know how to release any changes anywhere...is the svn just public?
20:58:42 <Phazorx> sicne it means each statioon needs to have "catch all lost trains" device
20:58:58 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I might think off something else
20:59:02 <TrueBrain> but for now, I am out of time :)
20:59:16 <Phazorx> well i'm looking at station struct
20:59:30 <Bjarni> qkr: there is public read only access to the svn server and if you want to release anything you made, then you just use the "svn diff > name.diff" command and upload the diff file
20:59:31 <Phazorx> in hope of figuring out that can be easily used to differenciate if not the name
20:59:33 <Ammler> AntB: how to you add this palette?
20:59:53 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I just hope it increases play-fun :)
21:00:03 <Phazorx> lost trains generaly dont :)
21:00:11 <Phazorx> but this patch has a lot of potential
21:00:12 <TrueBrain> the patch in general ;)
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21:00:17 <AntB> ammler: I've put it in GIMP's shared palatte directory, but how to apply it i've no idea. i'm playing with it now to find out
21:00:21 <TrueBrain> I really liked the total conversion of Korenn
21:01:51 <skidd13> AntB: Picture -> Mode -> Indexed
21:01:52 <TrueBrain> the maps mostly were impressive
21:02:27 <Phazorx> yeah that one was good
21:02:41 <skidd13> AntB: And don't forget: Do not drop the missing colors ;)
21:04:45 <qkr> I still can't find the buy vehicle thing in road_cmd.c
21:04:51 <Ammler> AntB / skidd13: its deactivated by me...
21:06:26 <skidd13> WOOT. pidgin shows hidden buddys :D
21:06:58 <skidd13> open-source ICQ, IRC, etc client
21:07:34 <skidd13> And I can see all the invisible buddys if I'm invisible too. Nice feature. :)
21:07:36 <Ammler> hmm, the german flag is still lila...
21:07:58 <skidd13> Ammler:Land of MILKA :P
21:08:32 <AntB> is there not a couple of didgy colours in the palette
21:08:33 <Ammler> and shouldn't gimp already use the right palette, if I load a decoded grf pcx?
21:08:57 * AntB remembers seeing something on the forums about using pink for grey, or something to that effect
21:09:15 <skidd13> Ammler: Depends on how you use grfcodec. I allways force it to use the win pal.
21:10:07 <skidd13> grfcodec -p 2 -d flags.grf
21:10:16 * AntB has CMD files set up for that :P
21:10:39 <skidd13> I noticed that the force of the win pal has better results.
21:11:34 <Ammler> hmm, yes looks nice now
21:14:12 <Ammler> skidd13: do I also need to encode in a other way?
21:14:39 <skidd13> grfcodec -p 2 -e flags.grf
21:15:15 <Ammler> but liked to be sure. :)
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21:22:41 <LN-> how to convince others that one doesn't know almost anything about bowling after starting the first round with a complete strike?
21:23:36 <TrueBrain> stackless python + sessionless websites really are useful :)
21:26:50 <TrueBrain> would be VERY slow :p
21:27:00 <TrueBrain> no, the session stays active on the server
21:27:11 <Phazorx> i guess depends on what are you storing
21:28:06 <Phazorx> LN-: bowling is a very strnge activity to start actualy... most belive it is a sport, while getting completely drunk playing it :)
21:28:32 <TrueBrain> so basicly, it makes the intigration between a real application and websites even easier :)
21:29:47 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: sounds like you need microkernel/dispatcher within webserver to make it efficient
21:30:05 <TrueBrain> stackless python, yes :)
21:30:06 <Phazorx> and i wonder how privat it would be in terms of guessing the key
21:30:21 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: add an IP checker, and as private as any other system
21:30:33 <TrueBrain> (normally, you send a session key anyway)
21:30:35 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: python is not quite within the webserver
21:30:45 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: this _is_ the webserver
21:31:09 <Phazorx> and you tell me the DB is gonna eb the slow part ? :)
21:31:11 <TrueBrain> most likely you can adjust it to work with Apache or lighttpd
21:31:17 <TrueBrain> haha, try benchmarking it :)
21:31:21 <TrueBrain> you would be suprised ;)
21:31:27 <TrueBrain> it outruns Apache for sure
21:31:35 <TrueBrain> (as it is 100% tuned for your application, and nothing else)
21:31:48 <Phazorx> but i tried benchmarking lighty, and these benhces are hard to beat event with LS or tux
21:32:06 <TrueBrain> for static pages it is slower than lighttpd
21:32:09 <TrueBrain> for non-static, it is faster
21:32:34 <Phazorx> i used lighty + fastcgi
21:32:52 <Phazorx> nice thing about that setup was linear scalability
21:32:58 <Phazorx> i wonder how .py one scales
21:33:02 <TrueBrain> basicly, a python webserver isn't that bad. It just doesn't allow you to run multiple sites on one port :)
21:33:24 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: if you get to a point of having a dedicated custom webserver
21:33:31 <Phazorx> you are not running multiple sites on a port
21:33:34 <TrueBrain> but benches show it outruns even lighttpd (via dynamic) for 1000+ simul clients :)
21:33:47 <Phazorx> in my case was running 20 boxes on same IP with HW loadbalancer even
21:33:49 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I never said it was useful for everyone :)
21:34:00 <TrueBrain> anyway, this also works just fine via lighttpd
21:34:06 <Phazorx> but idea of custom tuning is interesting
21:34:18 <TrueBrain> I just like the posibilities of microthreads
21:34:24 <TrueBrain> this means I can finally make a good AJAX handling
21:34:37 <TrueBrain> (as the server can now keep track of the site as on the client, else that was slow)
21:34:50 <TrueBrain> means I can finally make that 2d sprite engine for website I always wanted to make ;)
21:34:58 <Phazorx> not as much fun as global station availability recognition, but a bit of fun for sure :)
21:34:59 <TrueBrain> which means that it can work as frontend for OpenTTD :p LoL!
21:35:11 <TrueBrain> you found a way already? :p
21:35:25 <Phazorx> i'm not familair with data structures
21:35:32 <Phazorx> so i only came up with ugly ways so far
21:35:52 <TrueBrain> I might know a really dirty way
21:36:00 <Phazorx> more dirty than X vs Y ?
21:36:10 <TrueBrain> much more clean for the GUI
21:36:20 <skidd13> TrueBrain: FS1341 (first idea for syncing the mersenne twiseter)
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21:36:46 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i'm just sure there is a away to find a structure element that can be set in certain way by buulder
21:36:51 <Phazorx> and react upon it in selector
21:36:56 <Phazorx> name is not the best for sure
21:36:56 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: we just remove 2 buttons of the bottom right of their current function
21:37:01 <TrueBrain> hmm, I need network sync
21:37:04 <Phazorx> but there are other similar alternatives
21:37:04 <TrueBrain> no, that isn't going to work
21:37:31 <TrueBrain> skidd13: let me check
21:38:28 <TrueBrain> No, Phazorx, currently I don't see a simple way
21:39:39 <TrueBrain> + *insert++ = seed;
21:39:43 <TrueBrain> please avoid such statements :)
21:39:54 <TrueBrain> they are... doubtful in their result :) (okay, it can only do one thing, but it is unclear ;))
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21:40:32 <TrueBrain> just put them (all) on 2 lines, the compiler will optimize for you :)
21:40:55 <skidd13> TrueBrain: It's the first concept and its much more readable than the original
21:41:08 <TrueBrain> but I just tell you this already ;)
21:41:31 <TrueBrain> (Not multiplayer save)" <- 'safe' is the word :)
21:42:04 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I suggest before making it network safe, try first to make it to work for SP
21:42:07 <TrueBrain> that every time you load a map
21:42:09 <TrueBrain> the same thing happens
21:42:22 <DaleStan> skidd13, Ammler: grfcodec -p 2 -e flags.grf <-- No. -p is for decoding only, just like the help message says.
21:42:25 <TrueBrain> as long as that doesn't work, MP will never :)
21:42:38 <TrueBrain> anyway, got to go :) Nice job so far skidd13 :)
21:53:31 <Ammler> DaleStan: ok thank, will be ignored then...
22:06:43 *** MrRexxie is now known as Rexxars
22:40:06 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: still here?
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23:47:49 <AntB> Anyone know what they're doing with Action 4?
continue to next day ⏵
