IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-15
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00:01:29 <fjb> But I didn't test if it different in TTDP yet.
00:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> now i need shunting, to only have to electrify the relevant (steep) sections of my rail network, and still let the trains drive through the entire network
00:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: conversion from electric to normal rail should give money
00:04:53 <ln-> why would anyone want to do it that way?
00:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> to regain the copper used in the catenary?
00:06:38 <Ihmemies> ages ago max year was 2050....
00:06:42 <Ihmemies> is there any limit nowdays?
00:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> in 1914, all central german catenary was removed to get the copper for "war relevant" stuff
00:06:43 <fjb> I will only electrify the mainlines now.
00:06:55 <Ihmemies> openttdcoop's year is now 2148
00:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ihmemies: something like 5 million or so
00:07:22 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11266 /trunk/src/ (table/sprites.h water_cmd.cpp): -Documentation: Add a few comments. Parts of BigBB's work on shores
00:08:56 <Phazorx> Belugas: got an NI/GRF question
00:10:19 <fjb> Shunting would be great. But it would not be that easy to implement, I guess.
00:11:02 <Ihmemies> hmpf, double mode (ctrl+d) doesn't work on win32 vista :|
00:11:37 <Ihmemies> build11235. is it supposed to still work? :D
00:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: apart from the way trains are composed of sub-trains instead of simple wagons, you need a big GUI/Order rewrite, to have them sensibly programmed (from gamer's point of view)
00:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm thinking of that way: i have 200 ore wagons, two ore stations, and one steel station
00:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i tell 100 ore wagons to go to ore station A, and 100 to go to ore station B, then gather at hub station C
00:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> then i have 2 small engines with orders "take 5 wagons from A/B to C"
00:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> and one engine that says "take 15 wagons from C to steel station D"
00:15:12 <Phazorx> Belugas: estimated capacity in pbi
00:15:25 <fjb> Hm, yes, but would it be possible to add an engine to the train just to pull them over a hill?
00:15:26 <Phazorx> then it goes beyound 200%
00:15:30 <Phazorx> then ity gets to 255%
00:15:52 <Phazorx> does that number mean anything, and should it overlap like that?
00:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: yes, you would tell the train "go to A, wait there for engine"
00:16:41 <Belugas> i have no clue. you should ask pikka himself what is the intended and effective behaviour
00:16:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the helper engine you say "go to A, join with train, goto B, split off train"
00:17:05 <Belugas> Phazorx: have you tested it in ttdpatch ?
00:17:21 <glx> Ihmemies: ctrl-d has been removed
00:17:25 <Phazorx> Belugas: nope, kinda takes a while :)
00:17:39 <Belugas> well... nothing i can say either :(
00:18:14 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: that sounds great. When will you implement it? :-)
00:18:18 <Ihmemies> so it's coming back (or something like it)...
00:18:24 <Phazorx> Belugas: it just looks like data bits limitation.... which is probably more engine related than grf
00:18:41 <Belugas> Phazorx, keep noticing the behaviour and try to give a save game. it is possibly a bug, but since it is a new feature, it's hard to tell
00:18:45 <glx> but every try failed for now
00:18:51 <Ihmemies> probably when everyone has those 3000x2000px displays
00:18:54 <Phazorx> i have savegame and screeny
00:19:29 <Belugas> Phazorx, anything is possible. But i doubt it is related to a limitation of data
00:19:47 <Phazorx> you wanmt the savegame by any chance?
00:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of double mode (ctrl+d) you should have separate GUI x2 zoom, and another map zoom in level
00:20:03 <Belugas> Phazorx: but if you can debug it and eventually propose a fix, more than welcome ;)
00:20:04 <Belugas> anyway, i have to go to sleep. rough day tomorrow
00:20:51 <Phazorx> glx: i got a dfesync hint that my worth investigating if you are interested
00:20:59 <Phazorx> not sure if it worth a bug report tho
00:21:12 <fjb> I used a screen magnifier sometimes. :-)
00:21:31 <glx> Phazorx: I'm not in a desync hunting mood
00:22:34 <ln-> why does desync abort the whole game?
00:22:42 <ln-> that WAS NOT the way it was in TTD.
00:23:11 <ln-> in TTD you could have two different realities running on different computers.
00:25:55 <Phazorx> i dont think ttd behavior is correct
00:26:55 <Phazorx> with how desync events are tracekd right now - it is not possible to say what exactly is different aside of the fact it is
00:27:57 <Phazorx> synchronization can be achieved by reDLing whole data set, which is identical to relogin
00:42:08 <SmatZ> two different games, different things are happening, commands issued by one player may have different results in the other game...
00:42:39 <SmatZ> I think the way desyncs are detected is very elegant
00:53:24 <ln-> SmatZ: are you saying multiple concurrent realities wouldn't make the game more exciting?
00:54:39 <ln-> on one world you destroy an unused piece of rail, on the other one that click destroys your most important airport.
00:55:34 <ln-> also trains jumping between worlds could cause interesting signalling challenges.
00:56:39 <fjb> Everybody should have his own alternate reality. :-)
00:57:23 <SmatZ> different patch settings, different modifications to ottd...
00:57:30 <SmatZ> yeah, that would be interesting
00:58:43 <fjb> Help. How do I build this station without PBS. :-/
00:59:23 <SmatZ> this is the fun, designing hubs and stations without PBS!
00:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> i really don't have fun there...
01:00:08 <fjb> It would be more fun if you could build above a tunnel entrance.
01:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are situations that really don't work...
01:00:22 <fjb> Diagonal bridges would also help.
01:00:41 <SmatZ> hmmm 3am, good night all
01:01:07 <Sacro> OpenTTD needs more realistic signalling
01:01:11 <fjb> The presignal blocks are really stupid sometimes...
01:01:18 <Sacro> though how I'd like it is probably too realistic for most
01:01:34 <fjb> Yes, it does. But who does the coding?
01:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the current presignal system is just too simple
01:02:48 <Sacro> i think trains should be allowed to go past 1 reverse signal
01:02:57 <Sacro> so long as it can route to a same facing one
01:03:02 <Sacro> this should allow for bidi track
01:03:10 <fjb> I'll try it anyway. But I should remeber to build bus stops in that town first.
01:03:11 <Sacro> and trains should be routed from junction to junction
01:03:41 <Sacro> junction to junction on bidi
01:03:46 <Sacro> signal to signal on sidi
01:04:22 <Ihmemies> i'm fine with signals ;P
01:04:40 <Ihmemies> now when there's this "press ctrl to fill track with signals" feature
01:04:40 <fjb> Some day I will find out how the pathfinder translates signals and junctions into nodes.
01:04:48 <Ihmemies> signaling isn't annoying anymore as it was before
01:05:13 <Ihmemies> altough some kind of priority signal would be nice
01:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never used that autosignalling
01:05:31 <Sacro> fjb: YAPF and the signals are independant
01:05:39 <fjb> Sacro: How else does it work?
01:05:47 <Sacro> fjb: the signals use OPF
01:06:22 <fjb> YAPF looks only for junctions?
01:07:09 <fjb> Ofcourse it does... now I'm thinking about it.
01:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPF caches long rail sections without junctions
01:07:51 <fjb> Signals only put weight on the paths betwenn the nodes.
01:07:52 <Sacro> the signals are not at all intellegent
01:08:11 <Sacro> all they do is see if they can go to the next without hitting a train
01:09:17 <Sacro> i should stop playing MSTS
01:09:27 <Ihmemies> of course it would be awesome if trains could find their way and not collide with each other without signals :D
01:09:46 <Sacro> that'd not be realistic
01:10:43 <|fjb|> I hate it when my IP number ist forced to change...
01:11:09 <bruce89> perhaps they should have walky talkies instead of signals
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01:11:58 <|fjb|> bruce89: Go to wikipedia and look for train crashes... :-)
01:12:23 <bruce89> TGVs don't use signals
01:12:28 <bruce89> they're too fast for it
01:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not entirely true
01:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> they don't use VISUAL signals
01:13:33 <bruce89> just a wee blue light
01:14:02 <Sacro> thats not a signal per se
01:14:14 <bruce89> seems to work for them anyway
01:14:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
01:14:57 <Sacro> given the fact they're using tokens
01:14:58 <bruce89> in fact, there used to be no signals and they just used big token things
01:15:02 <|fjb|> The signals are in the computers today. The show up on the display.
01:15:11 <Sacro> thats an electronic token thingy
01:15:32 <bruce89> one nice railway though
01:28:46 <fjb> Why does the newspaper always tell me that something will close down when it already has been closed down?
01:30:24 <bruce89> papers always have yesterday's news
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01:32:25 <fjb> But it should tell what will have been closed down, at least.
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07:48:21 <asure> Hello people, I bet you're all sleeping.. Infact I don't even know why I come here to ask a question.. hehe
07:49:12 <Noldo> now that's a great start
07:49:27 <asure> So people are awake at this hour?!
07:49:33 <boekabart> rest asure-d, some people are awake :)
07:50:01 <boekabart> asure: 'this hour' doesn't mean anything on a world
07:50:22 <asure> Would you mind if I asked you guys for some insight into a little problem I'm having with OTTD?
07:50:32 <dihedral|work> you just asked a question
07:50:50 <asure> Ah I did indeed, but it does not pertain to OTTD specifically.. Right?
07:50:54 <asure> Atleast I think so, anyway..
07:51:10 <dihedral|work> just ask - if nobody answers, ask again in 10 hours
07:51:21 <asure> I'm having an issue with the vehicle replacement button, I really don't see it. I only see a manage vehicles button (Send to depot, etc) What's going on here, is there some patch or mod I have to enable to see it first?
07:51:41 <boekabart> asure: first of all , what version do you use?
07:52:25 <asure> I think that is the latest version, but it might not be
07:53:13 <dihedral|work> vehicle list, button on the right hand side ('manage v') where v is a arrow pointing downwards
07:54:31 <asure> Oh wow, I'm an idiot then I suppose..
07:54:36 <asure> Sorry for such a simple question ;)
07:54:59 <asure> for answering such a simple question*
07:55:18 <dihedral|work> * for showing you that you are.... just kidding :-P
07:56:11 <asure> Oh, I'm well aware of how thick I can be sometimes. :)
07:58:45 <dihedral|work> same here, same here :-)
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08:18:12 <dihedral|work> asure: enjoy the feature :-P
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09:46:48 <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: for pisg are you using the cache dir option?
09:50:19 <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: it doesn't have any, so no
09:50:56 <dihedral|work> command line option -cf CacheDir="/path/to/config/dir"
09:51:06 <dihedral|work> works for me :-)
09:51:16 <dihedral|work> saves to a file called -
09:51:32 <TrueBrain> maybe I should update pisg then :p
09:51:39 <dihedral|work> so each channel should get a config dir
09:51:43 <dihedral|work> which version do you have?
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09:52:30 <dihedral|work> it's in the 0.70 documentation
09:53:37 <kampasky> Hey guys, any chance to restrict openttd-svn to a closed list of senders? it's not like anyone other than the bot should ever send stuff there...
09:54:19 <TrueBrain> kampasky: it is; only the bot is allowed to send via it
09:54:30 <TrueBrain> strangly enough, some spammer found a way to act like the bot...
09:54:45 <kampasky> it should also restrict envelopesender then
09:55:08 <TrueBrain> the headers of the spam and real email are identical
09:55:13 <kampasky> Received: from [213.255.219.54] (helo=81.171.98.110)
09:55:13 <kampasky> by nl.openttd.org with smtp (Exim 4.67)
09:55:13 <kampasky> (envelope-from <catherinenoamack@gmail.com>) id 1IhMMM-0004ev-82
09:55:13 <kampasky> for svn@openttd.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:35:41 +0000
09:55:27 <TrueBrain> it should check on that.....
09:55:37 <TrueBrain> it can be so annoying
09:55:41 <kampasky> of course even that protection is not perfect, but should cut off the spam rate a bit at least
09:55:53 <TrueBrain> I wish mailman had an IP filter for this
09:55:56 <TrueBrain> but I couldn't find it...
10:10:42 <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: so what version of pisg do you have?
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10:24:00 <TrueBrain> argh, I need a upnp av client for linux..
10:24:04 <TrueBrain> djmount keeps giving: out of memory
10:24:30 <dihedral|work> has a linux client
10:24:40 <TrueBrain> and how does a virus scanner going to help me?
10:25:16 <dihedral|work> perhaps i should read every word you say (was missing the upnp)
10:25:24 <dihedral|work> just read av and linux :-P
10:27:01 <TrueBrain> k, CacheDir works, tnx a bunch dihedral|work
10:28:23 <dihedral|work> otherwise pisg does use a bung and a gob
10:29:02 <dihedral|work> i was having pisg runn every hour for 2 channels, and all games just started laging
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10:40:26 <Phazorx> tb so it does do caching it seems...
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10:56:03 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: clearly, hidden, but it does :p
10:57:08 <TrueBrain> stupid djmount keeps giving: out of memory
11:06:39 <dihedral|lunch> irc-stats back up :-) found the caching feature :-P
11:06:50 <dihedral|lunch> just for the fun of it :-P
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11:28:15 <WITTU> I cant figure out what i should write to the ttd patch and to get it work right
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11:37:24 <TrueBrain> wow, joining a channel for 4 minutes, asking a question after 3 minutes, and not waiting any reply be leaving after 1 minute
11:37:28 <TrueBrain> people still amaze me
11:37:48 <dihedral|work> and asking a question in the wrong channel :-P
11:37:53 <TrueBrain> pff, the things you have to do to get your patch accepted by ffmpeg...
11:38:06 <TrueBrain> I had to show tcpdumps to proof I was right...
11:38:21 <dihedral|work> things one has to do to get patches into ottd
11:38:26 <dihedral|work> heh - there is nothing one could do
11:38:52 <dihedral|work> appart from being patient and let devs work in their own time :-P
11:40:08 <TrueBrain> well, if you think ottd sucks, try ffmpeg :p
11:40:51 <dihedral|work> i never said anything along those lines
11:40:58 <dihedral|work> i think ottd is great
11:41:16 <dihedral|work> for being at 0.x release versions :-)
11:41:25 <dihedral|work> and you guys put a lot of work in
11:41:40 <dihedral|work> yet i somtimes miss some more admin features
11:41:51 <TrueBrain> there simply are no admin functions :p
11:42:02 <TrueBrain> NoAI should be finished, so Squirrel can be added as console script
11:42:09 <TrueBrain> that opens up a lot of posibility :)
11:42:23 <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: it's still stuff like setting company passwords from the console
11:42:44 <dihedral|work> and stuff like the 'reload config' patch :-)
11:43:11 <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: which is much easier to allow via Squirrel, yes
11:43:54 <dihedral|work> the reloading of the config?
11:44:22 <dihedral|work> #openttdcoop uses it IIRC or at least the #openttdcoop.dev game
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13:50:45 <dihedral|work> 12 mins late, who cares :-)
13:50:53 <dihedral|work> oh - it's just 2 ;-P
13:51:06 * dihedral|work should learn to read the time correctly
13:51:25 <dihedral|work> /s/the time// :-)
13:51:30 <TrueBrain> time is all relative
14:03:49 <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: from your point of view, would i in any way be able to help with implementing squirrel?
14:04:21 <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: finish NoAI
14:04:56 <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: i dont have the skills
14:05:08 <TrueBrain> finishing NoAI doesn't require skills, just a lot of time
14:07:46 <dihedral|work> i shall have a snoop around the code
14:08:57 <dihedral|work> and see if i find anything that i could possibly be of any help at
14:09:23 * Sacro wants a bottle of vodka and commit rights!
14:09:40 <TrueBrain> Sacro: proof your worthyness :)
14:10:40 <Sacro> not as much a failure as him ^^
14:11:37 <Sacro> that was almost "special"
14:17:15 <dihedral|work> you get tired from too much fun?
14:17:26 <dihedral|work> your parents must have had a very easy life with you
14:17:42 <Ailure> Actually I just had a exam and studied like hell
14:17:54 <Ailure> and only slept two hours last night
14:17:58 <Ailure> almost wrote that as two horses
14:18:08 <TrueBrain> It's the... EYE of the tiger (8)
14:19:58 <Ailure> Trying to decode that smiley
14:20:01 <Ailure> is screwing with my head
14:20:40 <dihedral|work> it's not a smily - it's an 8 wrapped in brackets
14:35:21 <Ammler> grf2html for 4LV takes long...
14:37:51 <Ammler> there are also Linux gurus here, how can I run a command for every grf in the pack? (wine grf2html.exe <grf>)
14:38:04 <Ammler> I would also have a list, if that would help
14:38:08 <TrueBrain> for i in `ls *.grf`; do wine grf2html.exe $i; done
14:38:58 <Ammler> TrueBrain: they are in subfolders, does that work too?
14:40:20 <dihedral|work> find . -type f -name "*.grf" -exec wine grf2html.exe '{}' ';'
14:40:25 <glx> find and grep can manage recursion too
14:41:06 <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: find sucks for those jobs, as the syntax sucks ass
14:41:25 <dihedral|work> was just a thought
14:41:30 <TrueBrain> find * | grep ".grf$" | xargs -n 1 wine grf2html.exe
14:41:43 <Sacro> glx: yay, another person who uses find | grep
14:41:56 <Ammler> I made the list with tree
14:41:58 <TrueBrain> but I like fors, as you can alter the $i value ;)
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14:43:06 <TrueBrain> cat <list> | xargs -n 1 wine grf2html.exe
14:43:06 <TrueBrain> lol, many options :p
14:43:07 <Ammler> tree -if ottdc_grfpack | grep -i "GRF$" > ottdc_grfpack.cfg
14:43:29 <TrueBrain> tree -if ottdc_grfpack | grep -i "GRF$" | xargs -n1 wine grf2html.exe
14:44:09 <Ammler> hmm, nice, thanks very much guys
14:45:29 <TrueBrain> too tricky for such simple tasks
14:47:38 <frosch123> Ammler: Try grf2html --nodata <- that is a lot faster :)
14:48:05 <Ammler> then, I have no images?
14:48:15 <Ammler> thats enough for reading nfo :)
14:48:31 <frosch123> depends, if you have generated the images before.
14:48:34 <Ammler> seems to be a cool tool frosch123
14:48:48 <frosch123> nice, if it is useful for you.
14:49:06 <Ammler> yeah, I just try to understand some grfs
14:49:58 <Ammler> frosch123: has it something to do with the grfmaker?
14:50:08 <Ammler> or do they just share same svn repo
14:50:33 <Belugas> only sharing plus both written in Delphi
14:53:15 <Ammler> ok, 4lv is a litte bit too big for it, 50% done in about half an hour.
14:53:25 <frosch123> Note: If you decode a station, industry or house grf, you should not use the --nodata switch. It will skip the bounding box preview :) <- that is my favorite feature
14:53:45 <frosch123> err, that does not sound correct.
14:53:51 <fjb> Hm, maybe you could compile grf2html on Linux using Free Pascal?
14:53:55 <Ammler> is it because of wine?
14:54:18 <frosch123> No grf is big enough to take longer than a minute or two.
14:54:38 <Ammler> ok, I try it on windows then....
14:55:05 <frosch123> I am very sure, that I also testes 4LV with wine.
14:55:33 <Ammler> Sysinfo for 'inspiron-suse': Linux 2.6.18.8-0.7-default running KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.4", CPU: Intel(R) Core 2 CPU T5600 @ 1.83GHz at 1000 MHz (3657 bogomips), HD: 80/141GB, RAM: 1976/2026MB, 152 proc's, 2.13h up
14:55:59 <Ammler> so the hardware couln't be quilty
14:56:04 <frosch123> much bigger machine than mine :)
14:56:41 <frosch123> Yes that could be, it creates a lot of files.
14:57:31 <frosch123> Under windows there is a big speed up, if you run grf2html a second time, when the files allready exist and only get overwritten.
14:59:56 <Ammler> frosch123: Action 10 would be nice with seeing the char, if possible
15:00:16 <frosch123> fjb: I already tried to compile it using lazarus, but it kept printing stupid errors I did not understood. I guess there are some subtle differences in "class" syntax.
15:00:20 <Ammler> and of course, Action 7/9 too then...
15:00:40 <frosch123> What do you mean with "char"?
15:02:41 <frosch123> Interessting, who encodes label IDs with characters?
15:03:04 <frosch123> I.e. which grf does that?
15:03:29 <Ammler> my first try to fix the aircraft speed has that
15:04:20 <Ammler> 35 * 14 10 "Running costs"
15:04:39 <Ammler> 23 * 6 07 01 01 02 FF "R"
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15:10:00 <frosch123> Ok, 4LV takes three minutes over the network here. one second with --nodata :)
15:11:07 <Ammler> my "fileserver" is a really old maschine
15:19:22 <fjb> I have the strong feeling that the combi presignals have some bugs...
15:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, they just have poor semantics
15:21:27 <fjb> Why does a train choose the occupied platform and not the free one? It can reach both. :-(
15:21:59 <hylje> is a switch-based pathing mechanism feasible?
15:22:07 <hylje> rather than train-based
15:23:33 <Sacro> hylje: yes, thats what tekky was working on
15:24:25 <fjb> Anyway, the train should choose the free platform. There is a switch betwenn the train and the two platforms. In front of both platforms are block end signals. In front of the switch is a combi presignal.
15:24:51 <fjb> Will Tekki ever come back...?
15:25:05 <hylje> fjb: that works great, you're doing something wrong. the coop people do huge stations based on that all the time
15:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume it's poor signalling on your part, fjb
15:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i have to catch a bus now...
15:26:56 <fjb> Ok, I'm also away for about half an hour.
15:27:07 <Ammler> fjb: provide us with screen or save
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15:43:21 <skidd13> Can I set defines via Configure/Makefile?
15:49:51 <Progman> which one do you want to set?
15:52:52 <skidd13> Progman: MERSENNE_TWISTER
15:53:32 <skidd13> I'm thinking of something like "./configure --enable-mersene"
16:00:14 <Ammler> ah, I see, you are using Action10 only with labe E0..., hmm, why?
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16:03:36 <Ammler> hmm, just for downwards compatibility
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16:23:52 <Progman> can you confirm this? If you buy and engine and add a waggon which supports different cargos the "change cargo type" button get not updated (only half by a MarkDirty call from the money raising in the trains viewport)
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16:29:11 <skidd13> I've to leave for now. See you later.
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16:54:19 <UnderBuilder> heh it is nice to see patch developers helping ottd
16:54:57 <UnderBuilder> and will be even better if it also happens viceversa
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17:14:11 <Ammler> SpComb: Is it possible to delete or stop Server on myottd.net?
17:14:30 <Ammler> my tests are still in the official list
17:14:53 <Ammler> I stopped them many times, but seems not working
17:16:28 <SpComb> the servers.openttd.org list?
17:16:53 <SpComb> do you mean the 1/2/3 servers?
17:18:20 <SpComb> hmm... Stop works fine on my servers
17:18:26 <SpComb> what happens after you hit Stop?
17:18:39 <Ammler> but maybe after some days
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17:18:55 <Ammler> I find them on the list and have to stop them an other time
17:19:19 <SpComb> I recently changed it such that stopping a server should cause it to not start up anymore
17:19:26 <SpComb> there's no way to delete servers, you can only stop them
17:19:44 <Ammler> maybe last time I stopped, was before your changes
17:20:46 <Ammler> Possible you could add #openttdcoop there?
17:21:49 <Wolf01> Channel not online: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getHighestFlag' «
17:22:16 <Wolf01> i really like this log :D
17:23:40 <Wolf01> uhm.. i should enable javascript sometimes
17:24:01 <Wolf01> (but the error is there)
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17:28:16 <UnderBuilder> what is wwottdg?
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17:40:59 <UnderBuilder> what is is? a openttd mod?
17:41:19 <glx> they raised the client limit
17:41:44 <UnderBuilder> but not the company limit
17:42:46 <UnderBuilder> will be hard to raise it to 16?
17:43:06 <UnderBuilder> (16 = total number of CC
17:43:21 <glx> may lack of free space in map
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17:51:26 <Ammler> hmm, I guess the limit of companies is much harder, then the limit I patched.
17:51:36 <Ammler> was only changing a constant
17:52:31 <glx> client number is just a memory thing :)
17:54:33 <Ammler> YouTube link == Ban <-- serious?
17:54:55 <LionsPhil> Is bankrupcy supposed to actually sell off your assets, as the news report claims?
17:55:15 <Ammler> I am wondering which movie was the source to make this rule
17:55:41 <LionsPhil> Might just have been influx of "hey dudes check out this cool vid" ;)
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17:56:18 <Ammler> but sometimes I say really nice videos here
17:56:26 <Ammler> releated to trains specially
17:56:40 <UnderBuilder> www.youtube.com/notalink :)
17:57:21 <LionsPhil> Good job it's not triggered automagically by the bot.
17:57:46 <UnderBuilder> noone understands my sense of humour
17:59:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: miham * r11267 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:59:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-15 19:58:13
17:59:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by fukumori (1)
17:59:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 12 fixed by thetitan (12)
17:59:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 118 fixed, 32 changed by jhsoby (150)
17:59:17 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: swedish - 1 fixed by ChrillDeVille (1)
17:59:17 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 22 changed by mad (22)
17:59:22 <Sacro> @kick UnderBuilder posting youtube links
18:03:29 <UnderBuilder> heh the wwottdgd binary's version is 0.5.99.0
18:04:14 <Ammler> oh, only this Rabigram
18:04:19 <DorpsGek> bruce89: Belugas was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Belugas> only sharing plus both written in Delphi
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18:21:55 <Wolf01> [information] i finished the curved road tiles for the brickland
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18:32:49 <Sacro> [information] i want some tea
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18:33:27 <Sacro> boekabart: i like this idea
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18:36:32 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11268 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix[FS#1336]: Call IsSlopeRefused whenever it is required. Looks like there was one spot missing. Thanks frosch
18:40:09 <Belugas> bruce89, you requesst re-opening of FS1331 can yu expand?
18:40:49 <bruce89> there is no music on start now
18:41:08 <Belugas> can you activate the music afterward?
18:42:45 <bruce89> yes, when playing, there is music
18:42:56 <bruce89> just the main screen on first start has none
18:44:24 <Belugas> anyone that confirms/infirms this?
18:46:54 <Wolf01> i can hear the music only during play
18:47:05 <Wolf01> or when i return to main title
18:47:13 <Wolf01> but not when i run openttd
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18:58:04 <bruce89> how do I build a debug version?
18:59:17 <Noldo> don't remember the exact syntax so you should check it
18:59:44 <bruce89> ./configure --enable-debug
18:59:55 <Belugas> bruce89, i cannot reopen fs1331. i fear you should open a new one (which would make sens since it's not the same bug) or wait for Rubidium to be online
19:03:07 <Belugas> it is shown on #openttd.notice
19:07:26 <SmatZ> bruce89: do you have this problem on both windows and linux?
19:07:41 <bruce89> I don't know about the no music problem
19:07:56 <bruce89> certainly the old random music one was on both
19:12:31 <bruce89> in the else, it only resets the music, it doesn't play it
19:12:39 <SmatZ> music doesn't work for me under linux...
19:12:57 <SmatZ> and I have this problems for so long time
19:13:10 <SmatZ> do I even forgot I could report this bug
19:14:25 <peterbrett> The sound & music are annoying anyway
19:14:38 <peterbrett> I always use the null sound device *shrug*
19:16:29 <SmatZ> but the music - maybe is something wrong in my system
19:17:20 <glx> do you have timidity++ installed?
19:17:29 <SmatZ> yes, and timidity use flag
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19:26:51 <SmatZ> how can I use timidity ?
19:27:20 <SmatZ> extmidi: External MIDI Driver ; null: Null Music Driver\
19:29:11 <glx> the external midi program, like timidity :)
19:31:08 <SmatZ> but I cannot hear music in ottd
19:31:15 <SmatZ> looks like ottd problem...
19:33:54 <bruce89> I've done a bit of investigation
19:34:13 <bruce89> ResetMusic() is called a huge number of times on first start
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19:37:12 <Digitalfox> I don't understand much about codecs and encodings of videos.. But i just convert an 178MB AVI ( codec divx 5.0 ) to a 111MB AVI ( codec Xvid 6.0 ) and i don't see loss on image quality.. Is this normal shouldn't i see some image quality loss??
19:37:56 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: there is image quality loss, *but*
19:38:07 <Rubidium> computers usually display about 16 million colours
19:38:23 <Rubidium> humans can only distinguish about 2 million colours
19:38:49 <Rubidium> computers (or rather the displays) cannot display all of those 2 million colours
19:39:04 <bruce89> there will be a loss if you recompress an already compressed file
19:39:05 <Rubidium> and the image is moving, so you won't notice small changes either
19:39:50 <Digitalfox> Oh ok Rubidium i never thought about that point, and it does have logic.. So i guess i may reencode my videos collections.. If i gain 65MB on a file, then on GB of videos i'll win also GB of space :)
19:42:38 <UnderBuilder> hehe I remember that I managed to run ottd on a p1 with 32mb of ram
19:43:09 <SmatZ> I was running TTD on 486/33 with 8MB :)
19:43:36 <SmatZ> bruce89: nice investigation
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19:43:59 <bruce89> really, it's only 2 printfs
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19:44:28 <SmatZ> but you was the first to do that 2 printfs :)
19:46:31 <bruce89> now all I need to do is fix it
19:46:36 <Sacro> we should s/^/printf $linenumber;/
19:46:42 <Sacro> that'd be useful for debugging
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19:56:48 <SmatZ> glx: are you using Linux and music is working for you?
19:57:25 <glx> SmatZ: I'm not using linux
19:58:58 <bruce89> what's msf.playing supposed to be
19:59:52 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11269 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: user customisable faces. Patch by BigBB.
19:59:54 <bruce89> is it supposed to be true when starting
20:02:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
20:08:03 * Prof_Frink awaits the inevitable
20:08:10 <Wolf01> uhm, assertion failed on faces.h
20:08:34 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: why did you wait for that?
20:09:01 <Prof_Frink> You haven't kicked me...
20:09:29 <Prof_Frink> Well, it would effectively hide you from me.
20:09:34 * Rubidium slaps Wolf01... you should've tested it more!
20:09:43 <Rubidium> before I committed it ;)
20:10:00 <Prof_Frink> Now, you have so socially engineer me to type /ignore Bjarni
20:10:18 <Prof_Frink> Except, as we know, engineers are not social creatures
20:10:43 <Bjarni> then you haven't met me
20:11:24 <Prof_Frink> Yes, engineers, as a rule, don't sing very loudly, very badly in Scottish pubs.
20:11:27 <Bjarni> well, some engineers aren't really social, but it's not a general thing
20:11:45 <Bjarni> well, I don't go to Scottish pubs
20:11:56 <Bjarni> and I don't sing very loudly either
20:12:02 <Bjarni> so I guess you have a point
20:12:26 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I take it you've heard the joke "What's the difference between an introvert engineer and an extrovert engineer?"
20:12:32 <Bjarni> but then again wouldn't it be bad to declare how engineers are based on a single engineer?
20:13:11 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: But to solve that, you'd have to find a group of engineers
20:14:43 <Wolf01> for what unknown reason exists the face setting variable on openttd.cfg?
20:15:25 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: An introvert engineer looks at his feet when talking to you. An extrovert engineer looks at *your* feet.
20:16:37 <SmatZ> bruce89: I found, where the problem is for me - I can use one of sound or music, but not both of them
20:16:39 <Wolf01> assert: /foo/bar/player_face.h, line 102, val < _pf_info[pfv].valid_values[ge]
20:17:01 <glx> SmatZ: use a sound "server"
20:17:07 <bruce89> SmatZ: I was working on a different problem
20:17:22 <bruce89> the fact that music doesn't start on OpenTTD starting
20:17:42 <Wolf01> it occurs on new game generation, but not every time
20:17:48 <Bjarni> SmatZ: known issue on certain issues. I can't remember how to solve it though, but it looks like glx knows
20:18:04 <Wolf01> so i think is caused of a randome face generated on new game
20:18:15 <Bjarni> it has something to do with not allowing more than one app to talk to the sound card or something like that
20:18:16 <glx> there are some program to "share" a sound device
20:18:42 <SmatZ> Bjarni: most likely my system has some problems ... it happened some time ago, and I cannot use two programs with sound output :-/
20:18:53 <SmatZ> glx: thanks, I will try to solve it
20:19:33 <SmatZ> glx: what about alsa or oss?
20:20:10 <SmatZ> it doesn't work for me neither :)
20:20:19 <Rubidium> Wolf01: can't reproduce it with like 20 tries
20:23:02 <bruce89> should the music change when you go into a game from the menu?
20:25:21 <SmatZ> bruce89: it should start to play random/first song of your playlist
20:26:25 <SmatZ> openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/player_face.h:102: void SetPlayerFaceBits(PlayerFace&, PlayerFaceVariable, GenderEthnicity, uint): Assertion `val < _pf_info[pfv].valid_values[ge]' failed.
20:26:35 <Wolf01> Rubidium, tried on debug?
20:26:40 <SmatZ> after loading first savegame I come to...
20:27:15 <Rubidium> Wolf01: I virtually never run without debug
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20:30:32 <SmatZ> buggy patches are accepted, but my are not :-/ that really decreases my mood
20:31:59 <Rubidium> SmatZ: as if every one of your patches has been absolutely bug free...
20:33:23 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11270 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix (r11269): black people only have one eye colour.
20:33:46 <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: Reread the Patch Acceptance regs
20:33:58 <Prof_Frink> Specifically the "Sexual favours" section
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20:39:46 <skidd13> I asked earlier today but didn't get any satisfying answer. Am I able to set defines by Configure or Makefile? (I'm thinking of the mersenne twister)
20:40:25 <Rubidium> yes, via CFLAGS you are
20:40:42 <Rubidium> but I wonder why you want to use mersenne
20:41:41 <skidd13> Rubidium: Why not. I like to try "hidden" parts of OTTD. ;) How is the syntax for the CFLAGS stuff?
20:42:11 <Rubidium> either after ./configure or make
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20:44:42 <skidd13> Rubidium: Checked the update of the update of FS1338?
20:45:01 <skidd13> Hmm one update too much :(
20:45:31 <Wolf01> Rubidium, it continues to assert
20:48:10 <Rubidium> Wolf01, rule 1: make it easily reproducable for a dev, or easy to see where changes are needed.
20:49:00 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, does Rule 34 apply to openttd?
20:49:24 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11271 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix [FS#1333]: some (very) old games (TTD original scenarios for example) would give a new vehicle spree, even though the vehicles were introduced decades ago.
20:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Progman> can you confirm this? If you buy and engine and add a waggon which supports different cargos the "change cargo type" button get not updated (only half by a MarkDirty call from the money raising in the trains viewport) <- i can confirm that
20:49:41 <Wolf01> more easy than this... it asserts every sin(3*pi) mod 5 times i try to make a new random game
20:51:14 <SmatZ> is OTTD supposed to load all old ttdpatch games?
20:51:30 <Wolf01> but i think that one of the four kinds of faces trigger the assertion
20:51:42 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: load: yes; load correct: not yet
20:52:56 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: ok... I am having an assert for some games... maybe the problem is somewhere else, too... openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/oldpool.h:113: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Vehicle]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
20:55:44 <Rubidium> SmatZ: line 1234 of oldloader.cpp I presume?
20:56:22 <dihedral> can i anywhere find text on what the aim of noai is and what still needs doing?
20:56:59 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I am recompiling... maybe I used ttdalter for these games, too
20:57:19 <bruce89> Ben_1: something funny has happened
20:58:13 <Ben_1> bruce89: whats that then?
20:58:59 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_
21:02:04 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, 1234 ... is it because of multiheaded trains?
21:02:12 <dihedral> Rubidium: that is documentation on how to write an ai using squirrel
21:02:40 <dihedral> i was more interested in finding out what still needs doing
21:02:49 <Rubidium> SmatZ: no, more TTDPs "lot of vehicles" thingy
21:03:24 <Rubidium> by default a few hundred vehicles are allocated, but now it needs more and by accident a vehicle references to another vehicle with a way higher index.
21:04:07 <SmatZ> Rubidium: so the number of "vehicle arrays" was not stored in ttdpatch games?
21:17:08 <SmatZ> GetVehiclePoolSize() <= _old_next_ptr
21:17:14 <SmatZ> except this direction of comparison
21:17:20 <SmatZ> I was trying other savegames
21:17:38 <SmatZ> so if I didn't lose some after loading
21:21:50 <SmatZ> but probably not a 'perfect' patch
21:22:01 <SmatZ> one train seem to be missing its tail
21:23:14 <Ailure> r11265 maedhros 2007-10-14 23:20:12 +0200 (Sun, 14 Oct 2007) 2 lines
21:23:15 <Ailure> -Feature: Make more advanced rail types more expensive to build.
21:25:13 <Ailure> was just gonna compare ingame
21:25:22 <Ailure> I guess monorail is inbetween :P
21:26:45 <Ailure> so now there's fnally a cost diffrence between regular and electrical railway
21:27:07 <Ailure> thaht was something I always thought was silly
21:27:41 <SmatZ> DaleStan: nice piece of text :)
21:27:42 <Bjarni> but... how do you get out? :)
21:28:03 <Ailure> ...I think that's a tesla coil at least
21:28:31 <Bjarni> hint: the domain name is "tesla down under", so it's a tesla coil guy in Australia
21:28:35 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Not really
21:28:46 <Ailure> it so remind sme about the idea of a forcefield
21:28:53 <Prof_Frink> A couple of Prism Tanks and *boom*
21:28:54 <Ailure> excpet it's probably not strong enough to stop bullets
21:29:00 <Ailure> living things however :)
21:29:21 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: usually this will scare away car thiefs.... they know shit about electricity
21:29:44 <Ailure> it reminds me about a car in a bond movie actually
21:29:52 <Ailure> which zapped some people who tried to mess with Bond's car
21:30:23 <Prof_Frink> What was he doing with a German car anyway??
21:30:43 <skidd13> I remember a guy in mexico who added a few flamethrowers to his car to protect him against robbery.
21:30:53 <Ailure> the car is basically a faraway cage
21:31:12 <Prof_Frink> skidd13: Was South Africa iirc
21:31:26 <Ailure> although the bolts only seem to touch the car on the front
21:34:48 <Bjarni> maybe he should find a safer hobby...
21:35:19 <Ailure> After seeing that picture, I don't think it's a hobby anymore
21:35:39 <Bjarni> find a safer fetish then :P
21:38:06 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: See, I'm in two minds.
21:38:07 <Ailure> mountain climbing maybe?
21:38:21 <Ailure> there's always some danish falling down the mountains
21:38:29 <Prof_Frink> Tesla coil... railgun... tesla coil... railgun...
21:38:39 <Ailure> which is north of Hgans
21:38:58 <Ailure> almost became a little joke within our family
21:39:02 <Bjarni> now I go for the fetish explanation
21:39:37 <Bjarni> "Wetting my hand beforehand reduces the sensation to a mild prickle"
21:39:45 <Prof_Frink> Ailure: Not as much as...
21:40:16 <Bjarni> <Sacro> i want a tesla coil <-- no there is no doubt that it's a fetish thing
21:40:48 * Prof_Frink wants to build a railgun and mount it on a hovercraft
21:41:34 <Bjarni> but it's already full of eels...
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21:41:41 <Prof_Frink> Shoot stuff and run away at the same time!
21:41:49 <Sacro> a nailgun would be good against a hovercraft
21:41:50 <skidd13> Once we build a cheap railgun in physics lesson :). Shoot range was 1m.
21:41:57 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: That's the power supply
21:41:59 <Sacro> or maybe it'd just go PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT and accelerate away
21:42:31 <Bjarni> yeah a modern nailgun is likely better than a modern railgun against a hovercraft :D
21:44:16 <Prof_Frink> He should build another personcage
21:44:29 <Prof_Frink> then he'd have a ZOMG MIND CONTROL DEVICE
21:44:42 <Bjarni> it's some sort of spinning wheel with glass of different colours in front of the lens... gives a nice result
21:45:10 <Bjarni> yeah... we should write an Email telling him to do a mind control picture
21:45:24 <Bjarni> but.... it's possible that he can't get anybody to join him in his fetish :P
21:45:28 <glx> <Ailure> the car is basically a faraway cage <-- Faraday
21:45:52 <Bjarni> far away cage.... not really the same as a Faraday cage :D
21:49:18 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Well, if he wants to sends me plane tickets
21:49:58 <bruce89> it is pretty far away
21:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's funny about that movie is that "Schreck" is actually a german word (meaning "scare")
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21:57:12 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: and you don't think they knew that when they decided on that name for a scary character?
21:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: i think they explained once that they took the word from jiddish, which has a lot in common with german
21:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> so yes, i am pretty sure they knew what the word meant :p
21:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> you trying to touch your nose with your tongue?
22:00:10 <Bjarni> I think he wants to quit vim or something
22:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> would have made a poor smilie anyway :p
22:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> (and of course i know how you quit vim)
22:01:58 <Prof_Frink> Ah, but do you know how to quit ed?
22:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> what he said :p
22:02:21 <Ailure> [23:40] <Sacro> or maybe it'd just go PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT and accelerate away
22:02:38 <Ailure> my mind inserted a 0x before PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT
22:02:48 <Ailure> then I started to wonder when hexdecimal numbers had P and T
22:02:52 <Sacro> Ailure: that's not valid HEX :p
22:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> you want to read mail really fast? type rm -rf /
22:04:31 <Ailure> that so reminds me when I set up a box of some NIX
22:04:37 <Ailure> and I let friends of mine log into it
22:04:45 <Ailure> one of them tried rm -rf /
22:05:06 <Ailure> didn't really do much damage though :)
22:05:16 <Ailure> I don't give out root randomly
22:05:19 <Bjarni> that would have caused damage
22:05:36 <Bjarni> this is a reason why I don't give out ssh access to random people
22:05:50 <bruce89> it would just kill out their ~ surely
22:05:51 <Ailure> it wasn't a exactly bright NIX user
22:05:57 <Ailure> he thought it would delete all files
22:06:27 <Ailure> he actiually complained
22:06:35 <Ailure> he didn't have many files in his own home folder
22:07:09 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, you should write a script that, if someone tries rm -rf / it removes them from /etc/passwd and logs them out
22:07:55 <Ailure> since there's more than one way
22:07:58 <Ailure> you can just go down to root
22:08:02 <Ailure> and type rm -rf * instead
22:08:32 <Prof_Frink> or dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda
22:09:15 <Ailure> filling the harddrive with random bytes
22:09:25 <Ailure> I seen variations on that
22:09:28 <Prof_Frink> or, for nondestructive annoyance, chmod -R -x /
22:10:26 <Phazorx> if if not all tiles of foodplant
22:10:35 <Phazorx> that accept grain also accept livestock is that normal?
22:10:36 * Prof_Frink smiles. :(){ :|:& };:
22:11:59 <SpComb> grab a linuxzoo.net and try it out
22:12:26 <SpComb> /dev/kmem is kind of amusing in sick way
22:12:44 *** BigBB_afk is now known as BigBB
22:14:36 <SpComb> a virtual linux box, root access and at least 20 minutes
22:14:39 <SpComb> you even have network access
22:14:53 *** UnderBuilder_ has joined #openttd
22:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: what's the point? you just grab the next knoppix cd, and restor all the x'es
22:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, all the ones in a "bin" directoryy
22:16:43 <skidd13> and all dir x'es of cause
22:17:07 <SpComb> and all of the other random x'es in e.g. /etc/init.d/ or such
22:17:15 <SpComb> it would cause a bit of pain
22:17:41 <Sacro> Ailure: as we pointed out to a uni lecturer rm -fr / won't do much
22:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can easily walk all files beginning with #!
22:17:56 <Sacro> or will it remove all files and just leave dirs
22:18:07 * Sacro ponders over his putty window
22:18:30 <SmatZ> would be nicer, if you have rm aliased
22:18:33 <Prof_Frink> Or fix enough for your package manager to run, then reinstall from there
22:18:45 <Ailure> last time I tried it, I destroyed the system :)
22:18:47 <Ailure> well I ran it from root
22:18:55 <Ailure> so I didn't really care too much
22:19:22 * SpComb plays with linuxzoo.net
22:19:24 <SmatZ> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1024
22:19:31 <Ailure> it's even more fun with Windows though
22:19:45 <Sacro> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/core
22:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> that'll be fun... replace ldd with rm -rf /
22:19:54 <Ailure> I keep forgetting the windows equilant of rm -rf though
22:19:59 <Ailure> but it's much slower in Windows
22:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> good luck installing any package :p
22:20:06 <Prof_Frink> Ailure: del /F /S /Q *
22:20:10 *** UnderBuilder_ is now known as UnderBuilder
22:20:10 <Ailure> deltree dosen't exist in Windows
22:20:23 <Sacro> del doesn't exist in windows either
22:20:35 <Bjarni> why not solve the real problem
22:20:47 <Ailure> Which Win 9x is based on yeah
22:20:51 <Bjarni> why delete files rather than go buy a bigger HD?
22:21:07 <Ailure> Win 9X is basically DOS hacked to run with GUI ;)
22:21:23 <SmatZ> once I had 6 IDE ports used...
22:21:34 <Prof_Frink> and Win ME is basically Win 9x hacked not to run.
22:21:38 <SmatZ> there is no way to buy more HDDs forever
22:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never had 6 ide ports (in the same computer)
22:21:44 <Tefad> someone using archlinux?
22:23:40 <Ailure> I only seen one computer
22:24:05 * Prof_Frink shows Ailure his parents PC
22:24:34 <Ailure> hell I can name lots of other OS's
22:24:38 <Ailure> I seen more of than Windwos me
22:24:43 <Prof_Frink> Also, James' PC runs ME2.0
22:25:04 <Ailure> or what about OS WARP?
22:25:27 <Ailure> that's is probably one of the funniest experiences I had at a bank
22:25:31 <Ailure> I was going to withdraw money
22:25:34 <Ailure> I walked up to the ATM
22:25:38 <Ailure> ...which showed Win 4.0 GUI
22:26:06 <Ailure> I probably would try if I could mess around lol
22:26:12 <Ailure> but it's hard with the keypad of an ATM
22:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had a scary meeting with an ATM also
22:26:23 <Tefad> where's ctrl alt or del ; )
22:26:27 <Prof_Frink> Ailure: Undo the four screws to the right
22:26:29 <bruce89> I didn't think Windows needed hacking to not run
22:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> i wanted to check my bank account, put my card in
22:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> the terminal said something like "internal error"
22:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> showing a Win2k boot screen
22:27:09 <SmatZ> what happened to the card?
22:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> still having my card in it
22:27:16 <Ailure> I remember seeing Win NT 4.0 booting screen
22:27:22 <Ailure> at another time though
22:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it spit it out after a while
22:27:40 <Tefad> winnt is rather common for embedded crap
22:27:46 <Ailure> if I should trust the bank using Win NT
22:27:58 <Ailure> sometimes they apparently run really old computers on that stuff
22:28:04 <Ailure> but I wonder why they don't use specialized stuff
22:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think the terminal is really embedded
22:28:13 <Tefad> uh yeah.. P166 32MB for the win
22:28:13 <Ailure> I can program a ATM quickly on a microcontroller
22:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean it has a keyboard to type in bank transfer data and stuff
22:28:23 <Ailure> it would be more power-saving and secure
22:28:27 <Tefad> Ailure: easy upgrade path?
22:28:31 <Ailure> than programmig a Win NT application
22:28:33 <Prof_Frink> Or, go up to the machine, withdraw £10 and stuff a knoppix disc into the cash dispenser
22:28:35 <SpComb> hmm... why would dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/ubd/0 kill my ssh connection?
22:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm pretty sure it runs a normal x68 PC inside it
22:29:00 <Ailure> ATM's usually use old computers
22:29:05 <Ailure> since they don't need anything more powerful
22:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the sad thing, the terminal is missing the most important keys to use windows :p
22:29:12 <Ailure> sometimes refurbished even
22:29:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: CTRL+ALT+DELETE, indeed
22:29:24 <Prof_Frink> Tefad: How do you know what hardware I'm running?
22:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd be so fun to see them catch anyone playing solitaire on a bank terminal :p
22:30:25 <Ailure> whenever someone asks about my hardware
22:30:30 <Ailure> I just point them there
22:30:37 <Ailure> sadly that would get them so nto trouble
22:30:43 <Ailure> ignore my network devices
22:30:50 <Ailure> some bug always causes it to have screwy values
22:30:53 <Prof_Frink> Tefad: "P166 32MB"
22:31:05 <Ailure> Device Received Sent Err/Drop
22:31:05 <Ailure> NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller - Packet Scheduler Miniport 1.67 GB -240136.01 KB 0/0
22:31:18 <Ailure> I sent a negative amount of bytes
22:31:24 <Prof_Frink> That's what "this" computer is.
22:31:53 <Ailure> the stats are way off too
22:31:57 <Ailure> I have downloaded much more than easily
22:32:08 <SmatZ> RX bytes:5242383144 (4999.5 Mb)
22:32:09 <Ailure> so it probably have rolled over a few times
22:32:15 <SmatZ> 5000th anniversary coming :)
22:32:57 <TrueBrain> Aug '07 194,970 MB | 1,558,276 MB | 1,753,246 MB
22:32:57 <TrueBrain> Sep '07 17,592,186,002,452 MB | 17,592,185,515,890 MB | 35,184,371,518,343 MB
22:32:57 <TrueBrain> Oct '07 128,948 MB | 1,279,165 MB | 1,408,113 MB
22:33:01 <TrueBrain> talking about bugs in stats collectors
22:33:21 <SmatZ> nice traffic at September
22:33:36 <SmatZ> anyway... 1,5TB is a lot, too
22:33:43 <Ailure> did you download the whole internet
22:33:54 <Tefad> he downloaded an internet.
22:33:57 <TrueBrain> haha, okay, but the 1.5 is real :p
22:34:24 <Prof_Frink> What happened? Get /.ed?
22:34:27 <Tefad> i think i've got 1.25TB transfer since may on home connection
22:34:39 <Ailure> terabytes is getting more and more common
22:34:45 <Ailure> once upon a time, a gigabyte was actually alot
22:34:45 <TrueBrain> what happened? a 100 mbit, that happened :p Never give students 100 mbit connections
22:35:02 <Tefad> i remember my first computer upgrade
22:35:15 <Ailure> download 10 movies at once or something
22:35:15 <Tefad> 8MB RAM was killing me too though
22:35:30 <Ailure> my first computer upgrade
22:35:38 <Ailure> was a harddrive around that size
22:35:44 <TrueBrain> Ailure: you need more then 10 movies to get this volume of bandwidth :p
22:35:48 <Ailure> boy it felt like a huge improvment from my measly 300 MB drive
22:35:50 <Tefad> sadly i think my two first disks are near death
22:35:54 <bruce89> hope you've got a 64 bit OS there
22:35:58 <TrueBrain> /dev/sdb1 298G 241G 58G 81% /data/extern
22:35:58 <TrueBrain> /dev/sdc1 466G 418G 48G 90% /data/extern2
22:35:58 <TrueBrain> /dev/sdd1 466G 124G 343G 27% /data/extern3
22:36:25 <SmatZ> /dev/hde1 196015808 115221152 80794656 59% /mnt/200gb
22:36:25 <SmatZ> /dev/hdg1 288451232 278109776 10341456 97% /mnt/300gb
22:36:25 <SmatZ> /dev/hdc1 480719088 248254596 232464492 52% /mnt/500gb
22:37:00 <Tefad> i use -xtmpfs -h for good measure
22:37:14 <Tefad> silly udev shm nonsense
22:37:36 <Prof_Frink> /dev/hda2 28G 12G 15G 45% /
22:37:36 <Prof_Frink> /dev/hda1 89M 9.7M 74M 12% /boot
22:38:49 <Ailure> I already showed my discs earlier with my system utility
22:38:55 <Ailure> really need to get around migrating to Linux
22:38:59 <Ailure> already did that on my laptop really
22:39:08 <SmatZ> Distro Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
22:39:15 <Ailure> I really have no excuse staying with Windows anymore
22:39:37 <Ailure> I didn't notice that earlier
22:39:49 <Ailure> but it's a bit Linux-biased utility I guess
22:40:00 <Ailure> like how it refers the discs as "mounted filesystems"
22:40:02 <Prof_Frink> Dammit, refused uplink to the umcr
22:40:20 <Ailure> which even is correct, mount is something Windows NT would avoid to use ;
22:42:34 <Tefad> Ailure: if you like ubuntu, you can easily give it a whir using "Wubi" installer
22:43:00 <Ailure> seems intresting, but perfomance concerns me
22:43:07 <Ailure> still, I am slightly afraid of repartioning
22:43:12 <Tefad> Sacro: just to make you worry.
22:43:16 <Ailure> even if I succefully did that on my laptop
22:43:27 <Tefad> Ailure: wubi doesn't suffer much from performance
22:43:31 <Sacro> not too many pax trains at 00:30 :(
22:43:34 <Tefad> it's like maybe 5% overhead if that
22:43:47 <Ailure> kinda funny how it works though
22:43:56 <Ailure> it creates a virtual disk image within Windows
22:44:01 <Tefad> you can even access your windows files easily from within ubuntu
22:44:21 <Ailure> the inbuilt NTFS driver in Ubuntu
22:44:32 <Ailure> is read-only by default, but there's other you can get
22:44:34 <Tefad> ntfs-3g is quite stable, i think it's even possible to use it as rootfs in linux
22:44:36 <bruce89> which gusty has by default
22:44:55 <Tefad> bruce89: i think so. initrd.
22:45:03 <bruce89> symbolic links wouldn't work in NTFS anyway
22:45:26 <Tefad> i use them all the time at work
22:45:27 <Sacro> bruce89: ntfs *has* symbolic links
22:45:30 <Ailure> I thought it have symlinks
22:45:45 <SmatZ> I wonder how I can redirect ONE HTML file to another computer in the network..
22:45:53 <Ailure> reason they implemented symlinks
22:45:57 <bruce89> I was sure it was a Vista thing
22:46:04 <Ailure> was mostly for POSIX complience
22:46:07 <bruce89> anyway, permissions wouldn't work
22:46:07 <Tefad> aka Interix, aka Services for UNIX, or Subsystem for Unix Applications
22:46:25 <Ailure> since it's rather hidden away from most WIndows users
22:46:32 <bruce89> the installer wouldn't let you install on a NTFS partition
22:46:33 <Sacro> they had "junction points" since ntfs 3
22:46:33 <Ailure> the commandline in Windwos isn't exactly nice
22:46:53 <Ailure> so I didn't know about it for the longest time either
22:47:07 <Tefad> cygwin is crap compared to SFU : \
22:47:17 <Ailure> but he always manage to counter-attack
22:47:19 <Tefad> meh, i guess Interix is the generic term
22:47:36 <Tefad> (OpenNT Interix SFU SUA .. erghaspdoflkajsd)
22:48:16 <Tefad> bruce89: permissions work fine.. NTFS has ACLs
22:48:40 <bruce89> try installing a Linux on NTFS then
22:48:56 <bruce89> there would be no advantage, if it were possible
22:49:36 <Sacro> this train is actually an engineering trains
22:49:41 <Tefad> actually NTFS performs better than ext3 : \
22:49:42 <Sacro> that hogs the line for 4 hours D:
22:49:50 *** egladil has joined #openttd
22:49:51 <Tefad> and is competitive with other linux FSs
22:50:10 <Ailure> NTFS isn't exactly a bad filesystem
22:50:15 <Ailure> it just have a bad OS inbetween ;)
22:50:30 <bruce89> WUBI looks like a nasty hack to me
22:50:45 <Ailure> I think WUBI is a neat hack
22:50:57 <Tefad> Wubi is an unofficial ubuntu installer
22:50:57 <Ailure> File I/O in Windows is a bit slow
22:51:01 <Ailure> but it seems to be becuse of Windows itself
22:51:17 <Ailure> takes lots longer time in Windows
22:51:43 * bruce89 formats drive to NTFS
22:51:58 <Tefad> there are some corner cases to watch out for
22:52:12 <Tefad> most of the time they rear their head when the FS is near capacity
22:53:07 <Ailure> never heard of that one D:
22:53:26 <glx> it's faster for me to compile openttd in vmware running mandriva64 on XP than using mingw :)
22:53:40 <Tefad> glx: that's a threadding problem i think
22:54:00 <Ailure> NTFS-3G will be useful
22:54:08 <Ailure> hell I gotta get around using it on my laptop
22:54:15 <glx> Tefad: I'd say it's a windows problem :)
22:54:17 <Ailure> kinda sucks with my NTFS parittions being read-only
22:54:33 <Tefad> glx: well you're not using the accepted UNIX environment for the platform.
22:54:39 <Tefad> you're going to run into problems : )
22:54:57 <Tefad> not saying that interix is the end all be all, but it performs rather well
22:57:16 <Tefad> i think you can compile mingw under interix, then use it to create binaries from there
22:57:47 * bruce89 thinks there are too many *ixs
22:57:57 <Tefad> i think there isn't a proper OS yet.
22:58:01 <Tefad> and there probably will never be
22:58:11 <Tefad> the POSIX standard is nice to have though
22:58:23 <glx> well I don't make win32 builds in the VM :)
22:58:25 <Ailure> Most operating systems are based on POSIX
22:58:42 <Ailure> although it's probably the one being the most diffrent from it
22:58:42 <Tefad> most operating systems were designed with posix in mind, maybe
22:58:51 <glx> NT miss a lot of POSIX stuff
22:58:58 <Tefad> glx: interix fixes that
22:58:58 <Ailure> Windows NT only did enough to cover the most obligatory stuf
22:59:40 <Tefad> bare minimum to statisfy government contracts requiring posix compliant OS...
23:00:15 <Ailure> stupid how goverments can be fooled so easily
23:00:30 <Ailure> can see right away that Win NT is hardly anything like POSIX for the most part
23:00:44 <Ailure> It derives so much that it's almost useless
23:16:32 *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
23:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... i believe i found a time warp or something
23:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> the steel mill is converting steel from ore that has not been fully unloaded yet
23:42:22 <SmatZ> the iron ore was duped_
23:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's just counted when the train arrives, not when it actually unloads
23:45:46 <SmatZ> sometimes trains don't unload whole cargo, because it stops being accepted
continue to next day ⏵
