IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-03
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:09 <ln-> the better way would be to negotiate a reasonable price for things.
00:02:51 <gynterk> but does Chris hold (c) over graphics ?
00:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i can imagine that Atari does not completely want to clarify ownership because it might reveal some other dead bodies in their basement
00:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. in context with that lawsuit above
00:06:38 <ln-> who was the bonehead who contacted the graphics artist and asked if he'd like to draw new graphics for OTTD for free?
00:07:11 <Phazorx> ln-: he gots royalties from every copy of ottd sold?
00:07:28 <Phazorx> sounds like a ncie arangement for one who makes living of selling games
00:08:18 <ln-> i have no idea what kind of a deal sawyer and others have.
00:09:19 <Phazorx> ln-: i mean that can be an arrangement for ottd
00:09:39 <fjb> There are some really talented artists who make graphics for OpenTTD and TTDP. It would be better to convince one of the to do new graphics.
00:09:39 <Phazorx> and biggest offence i can uimagine would be not having his name on title screen of the game
00:10:10 <Phazorx> fjb: that does not change the fact of ottd being derivative of tt
00:10:19 <ln-> fjb: such graphics could still be considered a derivative work.
00:11:48 <fjb> We have the svn logs of the last years. Everything that was there before could be replaced an documentet in the logs. But that would be much work. The BDS people did the same thing. Now BSD is free from every Copyright.
00:14:16 <ln-> BSD is public domain now?
00:14:51 <ln-> fjb: and actually part of svn history has been lost.
00:15:09 <fjb> I should have said it's free from the UNIX copyright. They have their own copyright now.
00:15:42 <fjb> Every thing that was there before the svn got lost hast to be rewritten.
00:15:57 <ln-> it's still derivative work.
00:16:03 <ln-> it doesn't change anything.
00:17:20 <ln-> proof: every attempt to create an open-source TTD-style (not clone) strategy game has failed. qed.
00:18:44 <fjb> Why has it failed? I guess most parts are no new invention of Chris Sawyer.
00:19:24 <fjb> BSD ist like UNIX. It startet from UNIX source. It is not counted as derived work in any way.
00:20:00 <fjb> Isometry engines were there before TT.
00:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: there are lots of attempts to be found in the forum
00:20:37 <fjb> And look at empire, it was open source long before TT existet.
00:20:38 <ln-> failed probably because although there's nothing fundamentally new or complex in TTD, it is still hard work to build such a game, and so far no one has succeeded in the open source world.
00:22:18 <fjb> Sure it is hard work. I guess OpenTTDs new pathfinder was also a lot of work. And many other things there were rewritten for OpenTTD.
00:22:36 <ln-> fjb: it's a little like: you've seen a word processor such as Word or OpenOffice. no rocket science in them. still, would you be capable of writing one from scratch a) on your free time, b) even if you were paid?
00:23:49 <fjb> Much work for a single person. But there is more than one person working at OpenTTD. And look at BSD or Linux. That are whole operating systems. Most done in free time.
00:24:23 <ln-> e.g. Red Hat has a lot of paid employees working fulltime on Linux.
00:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: stuff [YAPF] gets so much easier if you already have a framework [OTTD] to test it in
00:24:35 <fjb> And word is far more work than OpenTTD. Or look at Scribus, a whole dtp system.
00:24:57 <ln-> fjb: ok, since it is that easy, why have all open source train game attempts failed?
00:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and that framework is and will always and forever be a derived work
00:25:31 <fjb> They have lot of people now. But look at the BSD people. Most parts were done in free time.
00:25:37 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
00:26:14 <fjb> I don't think that the framework is derived work when every line of the code is new.
00:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i would imagine that BSD stuff is a lot of students work
00:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> not so much free time work
00:27:04 <fjb> BSD ist far bigger than OpenTTD. Early Linus was done in free time.
00:27:17 <Brianetta> [01:19] <fjb> BSD ist like UNIX. It startet from UNIX source. It is not counted as derived work in any way.
00:27:55 <fjb> UNIX was copyrigted by AT&T at that time.
00:28:17 <Brianetta> AT&T has SysV, which was the other UNIX
00:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it does not suffice to just replace lines of code
00:28:40 <fjb> Berkley got the right to work on that code, but AT&T withdrew that licence.
00:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you also have to prove that you did not let you "inspire" by the old code
00:29:19 <Brianetta> fjb: What are you on about? UNIX is a trademark, owned by The Open Group
00:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> OTTD is tainted, and you will never remove that taint unless you start completely from scratch
00:29:30 <Brianetta> Not a UNIX-like, not a clone
00:29:45 <fjb> You don't have to prove that you don't know how the old code works. You just have to prove that your code is not identical to the old code.
00:30:18 <ln-> fjb: so copyright can be removed just by doing a few search-and-replaces for some variable and function names. how simple.
00:30:31 <Brianetta> It isn't so simple.
00:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and add a few +0 or *1 everywhere
00:30:46 <fjb> Not completel from scratch. The new pathfinder and other new things could stay in place. We have the logs that prove it is new.
00:31:26 <Brianetta> It would have to be a clean-room implementation in order to be untainted. There is no reverse engineering defence there.
00:31:48 <fjb> But starting over would not be that kind of a bad idea. We could get rid of C and C++ then. :-)
00:32:04 <Brianetta> If I were starting over, I'd be tempted to begin with C++
00:32:13 <Brianetta> and have a full OO design
00:32:31 *** Wezz6400_ has joined #openttd
00:32:37 <Brianetta> In fact, I'd start with a design
00:32:56 <fjb> Full OO would be great, but also not ObjectivC. Something readeble please.
00:33:19 <Brianetta> A design document, stating the objectives of the project.
00:33:32 <ln-> i'd suggest the improved version of Brainfuck that supports threads.
00:33:35 <Brianetta> That Which Does Not Exist.
00:34:33 <ln-> it may not have SDL bindings available
00:34:42 <fjb> Design is always good. Many limitations could be removed that way. The restricted number of slots for the vehicles could be removed. Just put a NewGRF compatibility layer on top of the new design.
00:36:18 <Brianetta> One could polymorph vehicle classes
00:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: part of the problem is that NewGRF was designed with those restrictions in mind
00:36:48 <Brianetta> Eddi: It might be, but it's extremely versatile.
00:37:57 <Belugas> [20:35] <fjb> Full OO would be great <--- why would be so great about it?
00:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there are more design constraints, like being able to load old [release] savegames
00:38:13 <fjb> You could map the slots internally to linked lists an translate the vehicle ids.
00:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and use the old graphics files
00:39:04 <fjb> Why do you need to load saved games. It's just a game and no importand documents.
00:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: "linked lists" do not have anything to do in such a level of development plan
00:39:44 <fjb> Just play a game with OpenTTD. But start a new game with a rewritten OpenTTD.
00:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: because you want people to migrate to the new platform
00:40:17 <fjb> How long do people play a game? Month? Years?
00:40:43 <ln-> i agree that being able to load old games is not important.
00:40:53 <fjb> Just make sure you can use the cool NewGRFs. That lavel of compatibility is nedded, not a saved game.
00:41:12 <ln-> and i also agree with eddi that "linked list" does not belong to a high-level architecture description.
00:41:25 <fjb> You can alway play your old saved game with the current OpenTTD.
00:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: it has been in the previous development, i see no reason to drop that policy, just because you are starting over with the codebase
00:41:54 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: new people, new policy.
00:42:11 <fjb> It was just an example how you could have a new design under the hood an stay compatible with the old interface with slots.
00:42:31 <Belugas> [20:43] <ln-> i agree that being able to load old games is not important. <--- it is very important, sorry to be against your opinion
00:43:36 <fjb> Ofcourse it is important when you make updates tp OpenTTD. But not if you start new. Is Locomotion able to read saved games of TT?
00:43:44 <ln-> fjb: aren't the "cool NewGRFs" limited to 256 colors and the sizes used in TTD?
00:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: is Locomotion as successful as OpenTTD?
00:44:44 <fjb> They are limited. But if the new games uses more colors, than sprites with 256 colos can still beused. It would be a problem the other way round.
00:44:52 <glx> ln-: they "can" use 32bpp colors
00:45:11 <ln-> semi-offtopic: has there been any USEFUL updates to Locomotion since it was released?
00:45:38 <fjb> I don't know how successfull Locomotion is. It think it look to much like candy.
00:45:40 <ln-> there was one update that fixed something as severe as "Insert CD" showing in english in the german version.
00:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a versioning system anyway, so it is not a huge work to allow a plug for old versions of the savegame structure
00:49:07 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: preferably a rewrite from scratch should be made by people who have not been at least main developers of OpenTTD.
00:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have an infinite source of developer candidates...
00:49:58 <ln-> it could be outsourced to india.
00:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that would require money
00:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and money vs. open source does not behave too well
00:55:16 <fjb> Could the authors of TTRS be convinced to do some graphics for a new game?
00:57:20 <fjb> Total town replacement set. A set that replaces all the houses in TTD with really nice new ones.
00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r11197 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf.cpp town_cmd.cpp):
00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix: It is not useful to reset the override of an entity every time a new grf file is been submitted.
00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: Since newhouses showed the way to newindustries(meaning I copied/adapted a lot of code and processes from it), the behaviour was there for newhouses too.
00:59:43 <fjb> I think about a rotatable map. But that would need houses with four sides, not just two.
01:00:23 <Belugas> the point is that Zimmlock is aiming at a different goal
01:01:57 <ln-> gezien de afwezigheid van restanten schijnen ze gecamoufleerd te zijn
01:02:14 <fjb> Industries would be better with four sides, too. :-)
01:08:27 *** goddamnit is now known as DeGhost
01:16:43 <Phazorx> err... what's 42's keyword for translating again?
01:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: i'm 99% sure it's just another random star trek phrase
01:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it ends with "appear to be cloaked"
01:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and says something about "lack of residue" or something
01:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just not sure what "gezien" is supposed to mean
01:27:30 <ln-> gezien: considering [kən'sɪd(ə)rɪŋ] preposition
01:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i just can't come up with a matching german word...
01:29:04 <ln-> says this multi-language dictionary
01:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well... ok... but that one is neither close to the dutch word, nor very commonly used
01:31:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
01:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i would not try to directly translate the word, but instead rephrase the sentence slightly
01:33:25 <Phazorx> !translate de_en "angesichts"
01:33:30 <Phazorx> !translate de_en angesichts
01:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> more like "Aufgrund der Tatsache, daß ..."
01:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> or simply "Da es keine Rückstände gibt, ..."
01:36:32 <ln-> actually the latter one doesn't suit for commander Data.
01:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that is quite some important context information for a proper translation :p
01:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have an episode number, so i can try to find the actual translation?
01:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Aus Rechtsgründen hat Google 1 Ergebnis(se) von dieser Seite entfernt."
01:42:13 <ln-> season 2, episode "134: a matter of honor"
01:42:30 <ln-> i don't know wtf is the 134 supposed to mean, but that's what it says in the dvd menu.
01:44:13 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: actually.. these dvds have german soundtrack so i could save your trouble and check it myself.
01:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that might be convenient ;)
01:47:57 <fjb> Why do railway stations tend to get that long...?
01:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: because trains are traditionally much longer than wide
01:51:38 <fjb> A better signal system would be of much help...
01:53:00 <ln-> "die zensoren können keine tromatein entdecken, daher ist angenehmen, daß die Pagh getannt wurde und sich noch in diesen region befindet." (i wrote what i heard, not necessarily correct spelling)
01:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> the spelling is way off
01:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> and what is "tromatein" supposed to mean?
01:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Die Sensoren können keine [...] entdecken, daher ist anzunehmen, daß die Pagh [shipname?] getarnt wurde, und sich noch in dieser Region befindet."
01:55:27 <ln-> here's what the subtitles say: "Die Sensoren orten keine Trümmer. Es ist anzunehmen, dass sich die Pagh tarnt und noch hier befindet." (but that's not 1:1 what's on the soundtrack)
01:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Trümmerteile"?
01:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that phrase sounds somehow familiar ;)
01:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> and like i said, that sentence is quite a bit rephrased
01:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> and "daher" is the matching word, so i was not that far off with "da"
01:59:18 <ln-> they've got quite good lip sync, which must have affected their choice of translation.
01:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's definitely a major factor
02:03:17 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
02:06:03 <ln-> must be quite much work to create all the background sounds from scratch whenever someone says something.
02:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure, i would assume they get some kind of sound library from the original post-production
02:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> they also need access to the background music etc.
02:11:18 <ln-> 5.1 soundtracks could almost be translated by replacing the center channel.
02:11:19 <fjb> Today the voices and the sound are on different track. Till the 70s every sound effect had to be redone.
02:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> today they also send a video stream without any text overlay... in older shows you often see a black frame around embedded subtitles, where they had to erase the existing subtitles first
02:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't need to be subtitles, also you often have location descriptions, or the episode title
02:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i noticed recently, that in american series, they rarely show the episode titles
02:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> but they always add them in the german translation
02:16:54 <ln-> some years ago Star Wars Episode 1 surprised people over here, the scrolling text at the begin was localized into Finnish, not subtitled.
02:17:17 <ln-> in Ep2 it was in English, and Ep3 again in Finnish, how logical.
02:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was always in german, as far as i remember
02:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, also in episodes 4-6 [new count]
02:18:33 <ln-> on DVD that was implemented using angles.
02:18:55 <ln-> (the angle feature used on a non-porn disc!)
02:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have any dvds
02:20:05 <fjb> I didn't know that anybody used it...
02:21:34 <ln-> i think angles were somehow utilized in the extras as well.
02:23:01 <ln-> another interesting thing with the Ep1 DVD was its price policy.
02:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's difficult to use such a feature for a film originally intended to be shown linearily in a cinema
02:23:54 <ln-> when it was new, the DVD cost something close to 40€.
02:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> are they insane?
02:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can rent an entire cinema for that price
02:24:41 <ln-> however, if you ordered it from Australia, you got it delivered to your mailbox for about 22€.
02:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i should go to bed
02:25:14 <ln-> and that Australian version *was* R2,R4, and it *did* have subtitles in scandinavian languages.
02:27:36 <ln-> same content for half the price if you order it from the other side of the globe. does that compute?
02:30:51 <fjb> Its all about transportation... :-)
02:32:07 <fjb> Shit, I have been cought bribing. :-(
03:31:18 *** gfldex_ has joined #openttd
04:05:16 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
04:05:32 *** Phazorx has joined #openttd
06:05:30 <mcbane> what happened to hydlaa?
06:17:34 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
06:35:42 *** Wezz6400_ is now known as Wezz6400
06:44:50 *** boekabart has joined #openttd
06:48:04 *** Mark|asleep is now known as Mark
07:22:57 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
07:53:40 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
07:55:34 *** Alltaken has joined #openttd
08:19:14 *** pPACO_BAN has joined #openttd
08:22:43 *** izhirahi1er has joined #openttd
08:24:48 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd
08:26:43 *** pPACO_BAN is now known as Phazorx
08:41:47 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
08:56:42 *** izhirahi1er is now known as izhirahider
09:02:50 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
09:10:21 *** Born_Acorn has joined #openttd
09:22:44 *** gfldex_ is now known as gfldex
09:31:53 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i have a little q for you...
09:32:25 <dihedral> is building "teleports" by making use of the station spread and removing the unused station parts inbetween considered a bug?
09:33:05 <Alltaken> dihedral: its a feature ;)
09:33:21 <TrueBrain> dihedral: its a feature ;)
09:33:55 <dihedral> just checking - just because it's done a lot on my servers, and some people get slightly annoyed because of it
09:38:19 <Rubidium> probably disabling non-uniform stations removes the option to do that
09:38:28 <Rubidium> s/option/possibility/
09:41:14 <dihedral> Rubidium: i dont want to stop people doing so - i just want to know if you guys were thinking of changing it at any time
09:42:42 <boekabart> couldn't he limit the max station spread on his server settings?
09:43:37 <Rubidium> unless you limit it to 1 or 2 you can still make those "teleports"
09:48:29 *** gynterk has joined #openttd
09:48:45 <gynterk> hey is there a status page for my ottd serveR?
09:48:51 <gynterk> like current companies and stuff
09:58:29 *** gynterk has joined #openttd
10:11:43 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
10:21:40 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
10:34:02 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:34:33 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
10:36:10 <SpComb> gynterk: there's various ways to do that, but nothing built into OpenTTD as such
10:40:25 <SpComb> a patch that has OpenTTD write out the info every month, querying with UDP or reading from the console are better, and exist in the current versions of OpenTTD
10:40:55 <gynterk> querying info each time when page refreshes ?
10:41:02 <gynterk> quite rape to game server
10:41:24 <SpComb> every time anyone ever opens up the ingame server browser, they query each and every server on that list for some info
10:41:45 <SpComb> although getting more detailed info on the companies etc may actually require something more intensive... not sure
10:41:56 <SpComb> and anyways, if that bothers you, you can implement caching yourself
10:42:32 <gynterk> web status page is the same as in game
10:43:14 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
10:43:33 <SpComb> the game uses UDP packets to get that info, which is what dihedral's openttdlib does as well (I assume it uses PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS)
10:43:43 <gynterk> i found that thread already from forum
10:43:50 <SpComb> it doesn't look identical to the ingame one, but it's the same info
10:44:03 <gynterk> but, is there a way to make statistics ?
10:44:13 <gynterk> that means writing data after each change
10:44:33 <gynterk> monthly data about finaces and running data about vechiles
10:45:00 <SpComb> historical data? Not sure if anybody's implemented that
10:45:24 <SpComb> it's possible, of course
10:46:24 <gynterk> but that would require somekind data structure and mysql is out question
10:46:51 <SpComb> depends on your needs, if I did it (as part of MyOTTD), I would definately use postgresql
10:46:52 <gynterk> and parsin those later
10:48:23 <gynterk> anyway, I'm gona write a stats page :P
10:48:27 *** boekabart has left #openttd
10:48:31 <gynterk> and not in PHP since I don't like it
10:49:49 <gynterk> since I don't like apache either
10:50:10 <gynterk> i use Cherokee myself :P
10:50:41 <SpComb> Linux + Lighttpd + Python/Pylons + Postgresql
10:50:52 <gynterk> haxe has excellent build in template engine
10:52:03 <SpComb> first time I've heard of it, sounds interesting, but I'm too deep in python to get out
10:52:40 <SpComb> not that I particularly want to get out, I'm slowly starting to get the hang of Pylons
10:52:49 <gynterk> Its easy to me since it's based on ecma and I have programmed Actionscript for 7-8 years now
10:53:56 <gynterk> and you have to compile web pages
10:54:20 <gynterk> again makes things faster
10:54:57 <gynterk> xml & socket support is excellent too, mysql, postgres, sqsLite
10:56:22 <gynterk> does anyone know good freeware socket workbench ?
10:57:22 *** raimar2 has joined #openttd
10:58:04 <gynterk> whats the address for master server anyway :P ?
10:59:17 <gynterk> and good thing about haXe is
10:59:25 <gynterk> it's compatible with flash
10:59:33 <gynterk> that means live stats graphs would be possible
11:01:12 <gynterk> what port it uses for those udp packets?
11:02:37 <_42_> Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
11:03:00 <gynterk> !openttd masterserver
11:03:47 <Ammler> hmm, why do you need masterserver?
11:03:54 <Ammler> i guess its master.openttd.org
11:04:48 <dihedral> gynterk: what kind of stats are you looking for
11:05:25 <gynterk> i wanna write ones in haXe
11:05:40 <gynterk> but is eol \r\n for each packet ?
11:05:59 <dihedral> each packet has a certain amount of data
11:06:28 <dihedral> you dont stop reading until you have that data
11:07:13 <dihedral> have a look at the code :-)
11:07:49 <gynterk> is it hard to say :D ?
11:09:09 <dihedral> it is the easiest way to find out :-)
11:09:20 <dihedral> and not that hard to read
11:10:06 <gynterk> btw about those packets, where should I get those constants, from source again :D ?
11:10:42 <dihedral> the constants resolve to integer values...
11:12:42 <gynterk> but about that history thing
11:12:53 <gynterk> anyone up to write a patch for it ?
11:13:07 <dihedral> what history thing? you mean keeping logs?
11:13:37 <gynterk> like when train reached to station, how much was profit and so on
11:13:54 <dihedral> you cannot get that data via udp packets
11:13:56 <gynterk> when train created what were settings etc, train changes, crashes and so on
11:14:17 <gynterk> that requires .patch to OpenTTD
11:14:34 <dihedral> well - i dont think you want to get that messy with OpenTTD code :-D
11:20:13 *** abraxa_ has joined #openttd
11:23:12 <SpComb> you could log all the network multiplayer actions, although I'm not sure if things like trains reaching a station cause those
11:28:28 <SpComb> you could rewrite the game engine in haxe...
11:28:40 <SpComb> then it could connect to any OpenTTD server as a spectator and log it :)
11:30:41 <dihedral> add additional output to the console and get autopilot to read that data :-D
11:31:22 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
11:31:30 <gynterk> the sent packet to server should just look like 0 ?
11:33:38 <dihedral> missing the packet length there
11:34:22 <gynterk> how should raw packet look then :P ?
11:39:22 <gynterk> size is first 2 bytes ?
11:46:25 <gynterk> can't find where size is set
11:59:29 <gynterk> i still can't get it :S
12:10:10 <gynterk> is this packet in hex?
12:10:21 <gynterk> like 000303 for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO?
12:23:33 <gynterk> if i send 000303 it says connection error..
12:34:25 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
12:34:57 <gynterk> i can't send any packets oo 3978
12:50:27 <SpComb> gynterk: it's a binary protocol
12:51:03 <SpComb> it's "\×00\x03\x03" for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO (is that the correct endian?)
12:51:29 <gynterk> at least WPE showed me this packed when i logged from game
12:59:04 <gynterk> when I make server in my machine, and use Socket Workbench to connect localhost:3978 it'll return error
13:00:42 <gynterk> server forefully rejects my connection
13:02:31 <gynterk> if i connect to 3979 i can see the chat :P
13:07:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
13:09:03 <gynterk> i have OpenTTD server running but script says 82.165.254.161
13:09:12 <gynterk> script says Failed to connect on localhost:3378
13:12:50 <gynterk> whats server_bind_ip = ?
13:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have multiple network devices
13:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can choose the one your server listens to
13:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should usually not need this
13:13:44 <gynterk> but still can't get data via 3078
13:14:01 <gynterk> windows firewall is turned off too
13:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you should turn windows off :p
13:14:28 <gynterk> communication via 3979 works
13:15:04 <Bjarni> <gynterk> i'm gona cry soon
13:15:04 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you should turn windows off :p
13:15:04 <Bjarni> I think Eddi|zuHause2 found a solution to avoid crying ;D
13:15:04 <Bjarni> <gynterk> windows firewall is turned off too
13:15:22 <Bjarni> looks like a line overtook another line
13:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> looks out of order here, too ;)
13:16:10 <gynterk> any solutions why I can't get data via 3978 ?
13:16:52 * Bjarni wonders how this happened
13:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you used TCP instead of UDP? or you block UDP packages?
13:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the fault must be on your end, Bjarni...
13:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you need to cry or something :p
13:19:24 <gynterk> how could i block UDP if i don't even have software to do it ?
13:19:48 <Bjarni> maybe those 3 lines were sent in a package of their own and the router decided on sending the last first (QoS is enabled)
13:20:13 <Bjarni> after all I don't have 1 GB/s internet access, so I can access the router faster than the router can send it
13:25:57 <Rubidium> gynterk: a socket tool usually cannot send to UDP sockets... it assumes the socket to be TCP
13:26:28 <Rubidium> and because there is not TCP port listening at port 3978, it'll receive a connection error.
13:36:17 *** Dark_Link^ has joined #openttd
13:40:15 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
13:42:26 <SpComb> ugh, parsing OpenTTD dates...
13:43:00 <Rubidium> what? They're simple ;)
13:43:17 <SpComb> anything that requires you to write your own date/time manipulation code is silly
13:44:02 <glx> no need to write it, just convert the OTTD one to the language you are using
13:44:14 *** Greyscale has joined #openttd
13:46:32 <Rubidium> SpComb: means python doesn't understand the format...
13:46:42 <Rubidium> but what could be more complex than days since "epoch"?
13:48:13 <SpComb> aha, datetime.date actually does have a .fromordinal() where 1 = Jan 1st 1AD
13:48:44 <gynterk> does the server send me binary data?
13:49:11 <SpComb> what does a value of 1 mean for OpenTTD?
13:49:18 <Rubidium> gynterk: depends on the kind of data
13:49:44 <Rubidium> 1th of January year 0
13:49:51 <gynterk> Rubidium: UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER
13:50:00 <SpComb> so I need to subtract some magic number from it to compensate for the first year
13:51:04 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
13:51:08 <SpComb> is year zero a leap year?
13:51:55 <SpComb> ln-: then why does OpenTTD have a representation for it? :/&
13:52:02 <Rubidium> ln-: really... the Gregorian calendar wasn't invented back then
13:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> apart from the fact that the calculation is 7 years off anyway
13:52:25 <SpComb> dihedral: trying to parse the date value using a python stdlib function that takes 1 = Jan 1st 1AD
13:52:40 <dihedral> at what times can i get a (kicked by server) message (apart from someone issuing rcon)
13:52:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: probably due to Julian calendar being changed to Gregorian
13:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the calculation when jesus was born was done by some monks in the 5th century
13:53:04 <Rubidium> dihedral: you cheating
13:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and it is known they were a few years off
13:53:21 <ln-> Rubidium: but the gregorian calendar does not have year 0.
13:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the julian->gregorian calendar thing just affected about 2 weeks
13:53:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: probably because they didn't want to affect it by 7 years and 2 weeks
13:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: depends when the country switched
13:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the julian calender was about 1 day off every 100 years
13:56:17 <dihedral> Rubidium: the copy and past patch... just found out
13:56:23 <dihedral> when spectating and trying to paste
13:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why the gregorian calender skips 3 leap years in every 400 years period
13:56:45 <Rubidium> poor soul... not my problem...
13:57:03 <dihedral> just thought i'd mention it :-)
13:57:49 <dihedral> i dont use it, someone else did and got kicked, and nobody was around who could have done that with rcon - so i was thinking perhaps someone got hold of the rcon pw
13:57:55 <dihedral> but that thankfully did not happen :-)
14:03:15 <SpComb> I asked eis_os about the API, so he implemented that today
14:06:45 *** abraxa_ has joined #openttd
14:08:22 <SpComb> nope, it's apparently not that simple
14:08:53 <SpComb> is "the proleptic Gregorian ordinal, where January 1 of year 1 has ordinal 1" the same kind of thing that OpenTTD uses?
14:10:29 <Rubidium> that is a good question
14:10:52 <SpComb> the dates are almost right, but not quite
14:11:57 <gynterk> is day speed changeable from config ?
14:12:14 <gynterk> but is it possible to make it changeable ?
14:12:16 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
14:12:35 <SpComb> 1960-01-01 is 715875 in the protocol, and date(1960, 1, 1).toordinal() is 715510
14:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there exists a daylength patch
14:12:58 <Rubidium> SpComb: what's the difference?
14:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: so you are 365 days off
14:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and that tells you?
14:13:18 <SpComb> closer than I thoguht, I must have typoed something when playing around with it earlier
14:14:06 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
14:19:06 <SpComb> heh, there's one server that's currently in May 12102
14:19:23 <SpComb> Python's date only handles years up to 9999, but I guess I'll be able to live with that
14:22:07 <Rubidium> ... where can I post bugreports for MyOTTD ;)
14:22:29 <SpComb> actually, there's a trac with a ticket management system, but I never look at it
14:22:48 <SpComb> and the 9999-12-31 thing isn't a bug, it's a documented limitation
14:22:52 <SpComb> 206.130.122.71:3979: 1950-2010 Hard !NoAir - 512x512 - 0.5.1 - date:[1950-01-01 @ 9999-12-31]
14:25:43 <Rubidium> it's a bug, because it doesn't obey OTTD's documented limitation!
14:26:24 * SpComb labels it wontfix, closes the bug report and blacklists Rubidium's IP range
14:27:26 <Rubidium> blacklisting as in ALL IP traffic?
14:27:28 <dihedral> SpComb: what is with that url?
14:27:52 <SpComb> dihedral: you can query GRFCrawler by GRFID and get back a bunch of info about those GRFs
14:28:05 <SpComb> useful for any kind of NewGRF listing
14:28:42 <dihedral> true - but i either query the game or a cache file....
14:28:49 <dihedral> or the other way round
14:29:40 <gynterk> does UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO send ending year ?
14:31:08 <SpComb> dihedral: GRFCrawler gives you screenshots, download URLs, Author info, etc
14:32:03 <dihedral> yes - ok - that might be worth it :-D
14:32:38 <dihedral> i'll get it into OpenTTDLib :-)
14:33:04 *** Deathmaker has joined #openttd
14:33:58 <Rubidium> dihedral: how does it handle "old" versions of the packets?
14:34:06 <Rubidium> or rather, does it handle them?
14:34:41 <SpComb> what are the different vehicle/station types? Train, Truck, Bus, Plane, Ship?
14:34:47 <SpComb> I mean, in what order are they?
14:53:09 <SpComb> ok, got DetailsInfo working, now for NewGrfsInfo
15:00:08 <dihedral> though i dont catch version in PacketServerDetailInfo
15:27:36 *** novotv6 has joined #openttd
15:28:48 *** novotv6 is now known as Vikthor
15:31:21 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:32:04 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:32:16 <SpComb> should contain full support for the UDP protocol
15:36:05 <dihedral> why are you hardcoding grf id's and md5sums?
15:36:14 <dihedral> i mean into the code itself?
15:39:00 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:39:54 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:41:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:41:26 *** FlowaPowa has joined #openttd
15:46:22 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:46:52 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:48:34 <Belugas> dihedral, who are you asking the question?
15:49:19 <Belugas> the code is in udp.py
15:49:24 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:50:11 <dihedral> right - then i was looking at the wrong thing
15:50:40 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
16:43:53 <SpComb> dihedral: the first site is just the output of the script, which is a bit python-ish
16:44:49 <SpComb> but roughly 300 lines of code to implement an asyncronous client for the OpenTTD UDP protocol
16:45:17 <SpComb> and it didn't take me very long either, although I did copy the detail and newgrf structure from your PHP code
17:12:51 * SpComb ponders some big changes to the MyOTTD code/structure/site
17:13:19 <SpComb> I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells
17:13:25 <SpComb> I was pondering some kind of tabbed interface
17:14:06 <SpComb> dihedral: where did you get the little icons/images that you use in OpenTTDLib?
17:15:12 <dihedral> i took a screenshot and edited them
17:15:17 <dihedral> feel free to take them :-)
17:15:23 <SpComb> how are they stored in OpenTTD itself?
17:15:31 <dihedral> i have no idea what so ever
17:15:51 <SpComb> I can't find any resource files, they must be stored as tables in the source code or something
17:18:28 <dihedral> read that line again to the end
17:18:55 <SpComb> I guess the images are stored in openttd.grf
17:19:01 <SpComb> what's the license on them?
17:19:25 <gynterk> [20:16:16] <SpComb> I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells
17:19:28 <SpComb> dihedral: can you give me a .zip/.tar.gz of the images?
17:19:41 *** Darkebie has joined #openttd
17:19:45 <gynterk> not the resource one :P
17:19:47 <SpComb> gynterk: indeed, I want to replace the tables with something else
17:20:08 <SpComb> yes, but it won't magically make itself look nice
17:20:10 <gynterk> fancy blinking buttons
17:20:21 <SpComb> besides, there's plenty of things that you still need tables for
17:20:28 <SpComb> like, I imagine, the list of companies
17:20:29 <dihedral> gynterk: tables are needed at times
17:20:50 <gynterk> tou can list companies in spans for example
17:21:03 <SpComb> in such a way that the various bits of info line up nicely?
17:21:06 <dihedral> all the "\d_vst_[dark|light].png"
17:21:21 <SpComb> at the point where you give each piece a class and set fixed widths for them all, you could just as well use a table
17:21:47 <dihedral> and tell me again you never need tables :-)
17:21:52 <gynterk> SpComb its possible to write css good as with tables
17:22:11 <dihedral> gynterk: you use tables when your are actually needing a table!!
17:22:20 <SpComb> I use divs for the whole-page layout, but things like a list of companies is best done with a table
17:22:30 <gynterk> dihedral: agree, and you need table there thou
17:22:33 <gynterk> would be the best way
17:22:48 <gynterk> tables on that stat page are good :P
17:23:03 <dihedral> you like talking before thinking - i do the same - i think Rubidium here could sing a song of that :-P
17:23:17 <gynterk> tables are ment to list data
17:23:23 <gynterk> and thats what they do there
17:23:25 <SpComb> and a list of companies is a list of data
17:23:28 <gynterk> not to design a web page
17:24:05 <SpComb> dihedral: but, an archive of the icons?
17:25:09 *** David_McMahon has joined #openttd
17:26:11 <dihedral> download a package of OpenTTDLib...
17:28:50 <gynterk> next version of openttd server inf packet should contain ending year too...
17:30:23 <Rubidium> it's not as if there's space for that
17:31:17 <dihedral> how much space is left Rubidium (i know it depends on server name etc...) but roughly?
17:31:44 <Rubidium> something in the order of a few bytes
17:32:28 <Rubidium> but that should be obvious the only "way" to consider it when wanting to add new stuff
17:32:45 <SpComb> what are the vst_light.gif's for?
17:32:55 <dihedral> but it seems like the DETAIL packet holds a lot more data
17:33:27 <dihedral> SpComb: one is for a light image one is a dark image, depending on your background etc
17:33:45 <Rubidium> the GRFs take quite a lot of data space
17:34:12 <dihedral> is there anyway grf could be moved completely to it's own request?
17:34:53 <Rubidium> that requires two queries to each server and *much* more code to handle dropped packets and such
17:38:17 <gynterk> how many status page scripts are there already :D ?
17:38:50 <Rubidium> at least 3, of which 2 are in PHP and one in Python
17:39:21 <Rubidium> then there's the masterserver (or rather the update component of the serverlist), which is written in C++ (so it's technically not a script)
17:39:37 <gynterk> I'll write that log patch if i get a time
17:39:51 <gynterk> in what openttd is writte in ?
17:40:09 <Rubidium> well... C+ is more like it
17:42:53 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:48:43 <gynterk> oh and it would be good if you could put signals in stations...
17:48:56 <gynterk> you can fit 2 trains on each long station lane
17:49:42 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
17:53:16 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: is because we switched back to Apache, as Lighttpd tends to get the server on its knees
17:53:50 <Digitalfox> ok TrueBrain, i didn't know you were aware :)
17:54:08 <TrueBrain> I am always happy if people report problems :)
17:54:26 <dihedral> did you look at the 0production stuff TrueBrain :-)
17:54:35 <TrueBrain> @kick dihedral go fetch :p
17:55:31 <Digitalfox> It's working again TrueBrain, thanks for fixing ;)
17:56:07 <TrueBrain> glx: and php in devs.openttd.org works also
17:56:46 <Digitalfox> One more question is newports brach being merged for 0.6 or the newairports aren't ready yet to be included in 0.6?
17:58:36 <TrueBrain> sorry it took so long ;)
17:59:05 <gynterk> is there a list of translators somewhere ?
18:02:49 <gynterk> oh and could it be possible to make train stop in station only if this station produces the materials which train has a FREE cargo space to carry
18:06:33 <dihedral> are any grfs known to (when loaded) be a bit of a cpu eater?
18:08:27 <Sionide> gynterk, you can put non-stop orders in so trains will go straight through stations not in their order list
18:09:58 <gynterk> but if TTDP nonstop handling isn't enabled in server
18:10:03 <gynterk> then this doesn't work for me
18:11:17 <Ammler> omg, there are server without set this option?
18:11:51 <Ammler> gynterk: speak with the admin...
18:12:32 <Ammler> first thing, when you join a server is checking the settings
18:13:05 <gynterk> but admin speaks only german
18:13:13 <Ammler> oh, and greetings the others...
18:13:54 <Ammler> say to him: "Schalt bitte TTDParch non-stop händling ein, danke."
18:15:13 *** abraxa_ has joined #openttd
18:16:21 <Ammler> not sure, but it could be "new_nonstop true"
18:16:23 <gynterk> I wonder how hard is to make that log patch
18:17:38 <Ammler> and most non-english guys do understand more then one language...
18:18:16 <gynterk> but speaking is a problem :D
18:18:59 <Ammler> oh yeah, I understand, same with me and my english
18:27:51 *** gynterk has joined #openttd
18:32:16 *** boekabart has joined #openttd
18:38:44 <SpComb> where could I dig up the RGB values of the various company colours?
18:39:56 <SpComb> although crap, the details packet doesn't include the company colour
18:48:20 *** Wezz6400_ has joined #openttd
18:48:52 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Guest802
18:48:52 *** Wezz6400_ is now known as Wezz6400
18:50:01 *** Greyscale has joined #openttd
18:55:22 <gynterk> whats screenshot shortcut?
18:58:46 *** boekabart has left #openttd
19:02:32 <glx> ctrl+g for a giant one :)
19:02:45 <glx> though I don't recommend to do it
19:13:08 <Ammler> glx: is there a shortcut for screenshot without toolbar?
19:13:46 <Nite> its written beside the screenshot option
19:17:33 <Ammler> Nite, thats with the toolbar etc.
19:18:15 <glx> there's a console command for the without toolbar one
19:18:41 <Nite> kk i thought without using the toolbar S:-)
19:18:58 <glx> and console commands don't have shortcuts
19:19:15 <Ammler> glx: yeah, thats why I was wondering if there is also a shortcut
19:33:02 *** Greyscale has joined #openttd
19:44:23 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
19:47:42 <dihedral> there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194
19:48:18 <SpComb> it's kind of a mix between the servers.openttd.org and dihedral's one
19:51:03 <dihedral> just mentioning it :-)
19:52:11 <Rubidium> like... way too late to fix
19:52:39 <SpComb> dihedral: so what's your layout for NewGRFs? Need to take a look at that as well :P
19:52:59 <dihedral> Rubidium: so you know of it or is it just too late in the day
19:53:06 <glx> <dihedral> there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194 <-- try 11196 :)
19:53:18 <dihedral> i went back to 11152
19:53:28 <dihedral> i'll try 11196 tomorrow
19:54:17 <dihedral> SpComb: NewGRFs are a little nasty :-)
19:58:18 *** UnderBuilder has joined #openttd
19:58:19 <SpComb> dihedral: do you have a layout for them?
19:59:26 <UnderBuilder> heh, I wanna see a remake of RCT, the one I own doesn't work on XP
20:00:48 <dihedral> be aware of the endiannes :-)
20:06:40 *** Dark_Link^ has joined #openttd
20:09:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
20:10:00 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
20:10:09 *** egladil has joined #openttd
20:29:31 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
20:41:01 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
20:45:54 *** egladil has joined #openttd
20:48:14 *** Desolator has joined #openttd
20:48:22 <SpComb> dihedral: I meant the HTML layout, but I've got that as well now
20:48:37 * SpComb is takeing a break from MyOTTD and actually, like, playing on his server
20:48:38 *** Desolator is now known as Guest812
20:48:52 <dihedral> i use pear's HTML_Template_Sigma
20:49:08 <SpComb> someone want to play with me? Info at terom.myottd.net :)
20:49:11 *** ActySofts has joined #openttd
20:49:28 *** ActySofts has left #openttd
20:50:17 <SpComb> need to add something that'll show you the difficulty/patch settings on the server
20:52:39 *** ActySofts has joined #openttd
20:53:55 <ActySofts> -NickServ- Desolatr is not online. The nickname may be freely used and does not
20:53:55 <ActySofts> -NickServ- require regain or ghost.
20:53:55 <ActySofts> * Desolator :Nickname is already in use.
20:54:32 <ActySofts> yeah, but it showed Desolator in the text box...
20:54:35 <Prof_Frink> Desolatr == Desolator 2.0 (beta)
20:54:43 *** ActySofts is now known as Desolator
21:00:41 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
21:13:07 <SpComb> someone really needs to optimize the way that the trucks go into a cargo depo thing to load
21:17:44 <Rubidium> that's called drive-through road stops
21:19:28 *** egladil has joined #openttd
21:50:35 *** Mark is now known as Mark|ASLEEP
21:52:22 *** peterbrett has joined #openttd
21:53:34 *** David_McMahon has joined #openttd
22:00:04 <ln-> 50 years since germans entered the space.
22:04:25 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_
22:08:39 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
22:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> germans entered a lot of things...
22:15:51 * peterbrett resists the urge to make one of several politically-incorrect replies
22:25:32 <Bjarni> hehe... Eddi|zuHause made it too easy with that sentence
22:25:59 <Bjarni> one could mention Poland, something sexual or something.... do think before talking :P
22:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i would really have liked to hear that...
22:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> of course i thought... that's why i made that statement so ambiguous ;)
22:27:06 <Bjarni> actually Poland wasn't the worst you guys entered
22:27:12 <Bjarni> it was worse with Norway
22:48:46 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
22:55:59 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
22:57:58 *** egladil has joined #openttd
23:06:58 <Phazorx> and stuardesses probably have cat years and mangesque uniforms...
23:08:25 <Bjarni> err.. what is mangesque?
23:09:27 <Phazorx> sometihng that looks like it came off anime screen themed
23:09:40 <Phazorx> he made different sense from what i had in mind tho
23:09:43 <Bjarni> you mean sort of like a maid cafe thingie? :)
23:09:55 <Phazorx> depends on manga i guess
23:10:09 <Phazorx> could be ghost in shell sci-fi
23:10:20 <Phazorx> or some super dolls or whatever
23:10:33 <Phazorx> not like i watch tv and enjoy sit com anime
23:10:48 <Bjarni> you only act like you do :P
23:10:59 <Bjarni> and then you make a point that you don't
23:11:04 <Bjarni> sounds like denial to me :P
23:11:28 <Phazorx> it's all aboit rpeception for you
23:11:35 <Phazorx> however i do know what point i was trying to make
23:11:42 <Phazorx> and it seems a bit different
23:11:55 <Phazorx> but i tihnk glx idea could fit fine there too
23:12:27 <Bjarni> do your keyboard lag once in a while?
23:12:32 <Phazorx> and they probably screem at highest peach of their voives once in a while as they start a fight with random passengers
23:12:55 <Phazorx> Bjarni: i ithnk i fail to read what i type quite often :)
23:13:09 <Phazorx> and keysrokes come kidna close to each other
23:13:34 <Phazorx> this is quite usual me
23:13:36 <Bjarni> are you on some sort of medication?
23:14:08 <Phazorx> i care to be comprehandlable only... order of letters matters only on some cases, just having them usual enough for bing able to understand :)
23:14:19 <Phazorx> heh nope, this is a "normal" as i ever get tho :)
23:14:29 <Bjarni> then maybe you should be
23:14:42 <Phazorx> wont help most likely :)
23:15:04 <Phazorx> thanks for caring btw :)
23:15:16 <Bjarni> sleeping pills would help
23:15:27 <Bjarni> then you wouldn't write garbled in the channel right now
23:15:51 <Phazorx> considering time zone and fact that i woke up 5-6 hrs ago that doea not make much sense
23:16:46 <Bjarni> you are on the other side of the Atlantic
23:16:53 <Bjarni> then you could be right
23:17:03 <Bjarni> this is normal spelling in your area
23:17:23 <Phazorx> "my area" actualy uses different language :)
23:17:39 <Bjarni> we don't call it English either
23:17:55 <Phazorx> i'd call it russian actualy :)
23:18:35 <Bjarni> and you woke up 5-6 hours ago...
23:18:55 <Bjarni> Are you in Kanchatka or something?
23:19:40 <Phazorx> kaMchatka then, but no i'm in continatal north america, hwoever where i am has little to do with "my area" :)
23:20:33 *** egladil_ibook has joined #openttd
23:21:09 <Bjarni> Russian in North America...
23:21:38 <Phazorx> i think it is called soemtihng else now
23:21:51 <Bjarni> you are supposed to say that
23:23:29 <Bjarni> you can already use two engines
23:23:33 <Bjarni> and you can turn them around
23:23:38 <Phazorx> i meant curved bridge
23:37:53 <Ammller> Phazorx: SmartZ is working on a patch for that
23:53:50 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
23:54:37 <huma> oh, curved bridge would be cool
23:55:37 <gynterk> waits for transporting
23:56:10 <Ammller> huma: there was a video and some screens some weeks ago
23:56:55 <gynterk> i'm laughing too at the moment
23:58:56 <glx> Ammller: that was for tunnels
23:59:42 <Ammller> glx, tunnel and bridges are almost the same aren't they?
continue to next day ⏵
