IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-09-21
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00:01:44 <Digitalfox> Is the feature daylenght something the developers would like to see in trunk?
00:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> celestar wanted to introduce a similar feature in the gamebalance branch, but he disappeared
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00:35:35 <Sacro> Brianetta: todays fish is trout a la creme, enjoy your meal.
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01:52:09 <Nite> balancing (rising) of running costs in us set would be great ... balancing bla bla
01:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> Nite: tell that to the author of USSet
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05:56:00 <dihedral> a chance of splitting rcon up a little?
05:56:23 <dihedral> i.e. specifying which commands can be run?
05:57:18 <dihedral> or an operator rcon, only allowing kick, ban, pause, unpause, newgame, unban, and not allowing setting of patches, or network vars?
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06:00:25 * dihedral slaps Gekko .... just for the fun of it
06:01:06 * Rubidium as mathematician says: there always is a chance, even though the chance might be 0 or 1.
06:01:29 <dihedral> seriously, what you think of it?
06:02:45 <Rubidium> doesn't that imply that there are more passwords to be managed?
06:03:37 <Rubidium> and a whole ACL system because person A does not want his operator to pause/unpause a game whereas person B wants it
06:04:07 <Gekko> referee, that's what it's called.
06:04:13 <dihedral> was thinking more like spliting up between settings, and game play
06:04:27 <Gekko> admin, referee, player are the levels
06:04:46 <dihedral> admin, referee, player, garbage, Gekko :-D
06:05:12 <dihedral> i dont wanna know what you shake
06:05:18 * Gekko falls upon weight of own fist
06:06:36 <Rubidium> dihedral: there are still people that want referees to have pause/unpause "capabilities", whereas there are people that do not want to give referees that ability
06:06:54 <Rubidium> and again, you need a whole user management system for this to work
06:07:41 <dihedral> just 2 different passwords
06:07:55 <dihedral> and a patch setting, op_include_pause
06:10:05 <Rubidium> and then someone that does not allow referees to unban people
06:10:17 <Rubidium> ergo... you need a ACL system
06:11:22 <Gekko> what's wrong with an ACL system
06:11:40 <Rubidium> I didn't say there's something wrong
06:11:50 <Rubidium> it's just a hell of a lot of work to implement
06:12:52 <dihedral> yes - i agree with that
06:13:12 <dihedral> but until then - spliting up into 2 rcons is a start, is it not?
06:14:09 <dihedral> or is it more like something you'd never want to go to?
06:16:33 <Rubidium> dihedral: it's like with increasing the number of clients
06:16:54 <Rubidium> either do it GOOD or don't do it at all, don't do it in some "bad" manner
06:18:02 <dihedral> totaly understand that
06:18:24 <Rubidium> i.e. don't take the quick "fix" way when that "fix" is going to be "not enough" in a few weeks
06:19:09 <dihedral> yes, but even if it aint going to be enough in a few weeks, developing the ACL would take more than just a few weeks, and therefore could be at least a beginning :-)
06:19:22 <Rubidium> and about the fetching of newgrf names... it does not always return all names in a single packet because they might not all fit in a single packet.
06:19:33 <Rubidium> you just have to rerequest the ones you did not get the name of
06:20:10 <dihedral> will i get a name for everything, or could it happen that one of the grfid's is left out as an 'unknown'
06:20:25 <Rubidium> dihedral: and WHO cares about those few extra weeks; it's not like it's going to be on 0.5.4 and 0.6.0 isn't *that* near either
06:20:51 <Rubidium> dihedral: an efficient way to get the grfids quicker is just locally caching them with grfid + md5sum
06:20:53 <dihedral> well - i was hoping for something towards 0.6 :-D
06:21:10 <dihedral> Rubidium: was thinking of including a cache :-)
06:21:39 <dihedral> but first i want it to work on #openttdcoop :-)
06:22:06 <Rubidium> did the server crash or so?
06:22:36 <Rubidium> as you describe it as work on ...
06:23:23 <dihedral> i want to be able to query #openttdcoop successfully :-)
06:23:37 <dihedral> i.e. the amount of loaded newgrfs is what i am looking at
06:25:35 <dihedral> does the server *have* to send back the md5sums in the UDP_SERVER_NEWGRFS packet? are the grfid's not enough,
06:25:46 <dihedral> freeing enough space in the packet to send a bunch more grf names?
06:26:44 <Rubidium> it's technically possible to load several GRFs with the same GRFID (though the current GUI disallows that)
06:26:46 <dihedral> Rubidium: why are you actually up this early ?
06:27:01 <dihedral> that is good to know
06:27:08 <Rubidium> cause I went to bed early
06:27:13 <dihedral> i was using the id as the index in an array :-P
06:27:20 <Rubidium> (and I'm having an internship at the moment)
06:27:26 <dihedral> still, it's like 7.30 in the uk
06:27:49 <dihedral> you're in the uk right?
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08:54:00 <gfldex> is there a monospace font in OTTD?
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09:01:39 <Rubidium> your OS' fonts or a newgrf to replace the fonts
09:06:10 <gfldex> would the font system allow to have a 2nd font?
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09:41:56 <dihedral> Ammler: getting there
09:42:22 <dihedral> but if you want the banner system in there too, it'll take a little longer :-D
09:42:58 <Ammler> hmm, split it for next version, you need something for 0.4 :)
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11:37:38 <mcbane> yay munich getting overrun by tourist (oktoberfest starts in 2 days)
11:42:18 <skidd13|UNI> Anyone in here who can tell me how to be able to use svn behind a proxy?
11:44:34 <Rubidium> run a http svn server
11:47:43 <skidd13|UNI> I meant I want to use the svn client behind our UNI proxy.
11:47:43 <skidd13|UNI> Tefad: I changed the config already at my notebook, but does not work.
11:47:55 <Sacro> skidd13|UNI: ssh tunnel it?
11:48:07 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I think if he can use ssh, he can use svn too ;)
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11:49:07 <skidd13|UNI> TrueBrain: What do you have in mind with SOCKS?
11:49:21 <TrueBrain> skidd13|UNI: if the proxy supports SOCKS5, it allows everything
11:49:42 <TrueBrain> as you have simple applications that route an internal port via SOCKS5 to the internet
11:49:48 <TrueBrain> at least, on windows you had ;)
11:50:13 <TrueBrain> skidd13|UNI: and we don't have http svn, so... either setup a mirror somewhere which does support http svn
11:50:16 <TrueBrain> or wait till you are home ;)
11:50:31 <TrueBrain> or use a HTTP-tunnel
11:50:58 <TrueBrain> I wonder about the lag a http tunnel would create :)
11:51:21 <TrueBrain> if it supports https, it would be easier to set up a https tunnel
12:08:18 <skidd13|UNI> only plain http. That sucks.
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12:52:04 <dihedral> uh - TrueBrain - long time no... chat :-)
12:56:31 <TrueBrain> lol, saving your modifications mostly helps to test new things :p
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13:07:23 <boekabart> is http server users.tt-forums.net down ?
13:10:40 <TrueBrain> boekabart: is it still?
13:12:05 <boekabart> sometimes i get something
13:13:43 <boekabart> the main page sometimes opens - the set2 page - no success so far. Is it in a different location than the forum / svn lalala servers?
13:14:10 <TrueBrain> forums != svn != users.forums, server-wise
13:14:37 <boekabart> i know, that's why I asked about location not server :)
13:16:39 <boekabart> your servers DO work, his don't? ;)
13:17:23 <TrueBrain> his servers work too
13:18:01 <boekabart> anyway - don't think there's anything interesting to download about dutchset yet, is there?
13:21:22 <TrueBrain> boekabart: how is it working now?
13:25:43 <boekabart> but - nothing interesting there - the forum seems more up-to-date
13:26:05 <TrueBrain> pff, ondankbaar kreng :p :p :p
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14:13:33 <dihedral> hmm... i dont get a response when sending the second UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS packet
14:14:04 <dihedral> * after sending... :-)
14:14:16 <dihedral> anybody with any ideas?
14:15:07 <dihedral> perhaps Rubidium or TrueBrain ?
14:26:04 <dihedral> dont even get the first response from #openttdcoop
14:26:44 <dihedral> then when i query my game (only 1 newgrf loaded) there is no prob...
14:42:06 <dihedral> i get info on 5 grf's, then it conks out...
14:44:24 * dihedral does not know what's going on...
14:48:33 <dihedral> any reason why only certain newgrf's are returned by the game server?
14:50:09 <dihedral> Rubidium ? you around ?
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14:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%208.%20Mai%201931.png <- a rheingold express at a river bank :)
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15:44:37 <Rubidium> dihedral: you know what UDP is? Might well be the "cause" of your packets not being delivered
15:45:29 <dihedral> i somehow doubt that if i lower the packet contents to only request 2 grf's
15:45:45 <dihedral> that i only get answers when certain grf's are requested
15:45:53 <dihedral> and they seem to be the same time... all the time
15:46:19 <dihedral> i.e. openttdcoop server will respond if i at least request info for the new bridges thing
15:46:22 <_minime_> dihedral: why not make a queue of grfid/md5 combinations you need to resolve, transfer one request for each, and once you receive results remove it from the queue
15:46:31 <_minime_> keep going until queue is empty
15:46:42 <dihedral> that is what i am doing
15:46:52 <dihedral> though i am bundeling a few grf's together
15:47:14 <dihedral> i have tried with only 1 grf in each packet
15:47:52 <dihedral> though again, as soon as it hits a certain one, it does not respond
15:48:01 <_minime_> what if you try it on a local server... does that work better?
15:48:19 <_minime_> is it always the same one?
15:48:47 <dihedral> next thing to test :-)
15:55:11 <dihedral> and why would a game respond with only 1 grf in a file if 26 have been requested, and no - the packet size was not exceeded
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15:58:59 <dihedral> i do understand the nature of UDP Rubidium
16:00:30 <dihedral> though if so far _all_ the other udp packets got there, and responses got back...
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16:21:09 <dihedral> Rubidium: i am fairly sure the udp packets are getting there
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16:46:46 <dihedral> Rubidium: as far as i have understood network_udp.cpp if FindGRFConfig returnes null, the grf requested is ignored
16:47:05 <dihedral> would it be an idea to at least let the client know that it's not known by the server?\
16:51:25 <dihedral> not there again... :-(
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16:55:51 * SpComb has succesfully managed to parse settings.c and settings_gui.c
17:01:48 <Rubidium> dihedral: invalid requests should *always* be ignored (IMO)
17:03:09 <dihedral> if i sent a udp packet with grf id's and md5 sums which i received from the server, i at least expect the server to somehow acknowledge what i asked
17:03:24 <dihedral> rather than waiting for ever for a response, and that way timing out
17:08:44 <Rubidium> dihedral: so if I flood you system with UDP packets with faked source destination, you are going to flood the faked source with "invalid packet" messages?
17:08:53 <Rubidium> s/you system/your system/
17:09:22 <dihedral> but then the same is the case for the detail packets :-)
17:09:48 <Rubidium> yup, but only valid requests and that is something you cannot stop
17:10:07 <Rubidium> but me sending random garbage to random ports is much easier that constructing valid packets
17:10:32 <dihedral> well - at least say if the ones that were sent in the info packet and now requested are unknown
17:10:57 <Rubidium> the ones sent in the info packet should not be unknown
17:11:06 <dihedral> but i found some that are
17:11:29 <dihedral> or - more likeley i am constructing something wrong
17:11:46 <dihedral> but then it seems to work for some grf id's and md5 sums but not for others
17:12:12 <Rubidium> well, what grf ids for which server?
17:12:27 <dihedral> i added a debug message for unknown grf's, i.e. FindGRFConfig returning null
17:13:06 <dihedral> ottdc_grfpack/7_stations/ae_city/ae_cityw.GRF on a nightly
17:13:07 <Rubidium> that means you are doing something wrong
17:13:19 <dihedral> i love hearing that :-)
17:13:26 <Rubidium> because FindGRFConfig returns something for all GRFs the server knows
17:13:41 <Rubidium> and the server cannot not know a GRF and use it at the same time
17:13:55 <dihedral> f = FindGRFConfig(c.grfid, c.md5sum);
17:13:56 <dihedral> if (f == NULL) continue; // The GRF is unknown to this server
17:14:21 <dihedral> lines 218, 219 in network_udp.cpp
17:14:24 <Rubidium> I suspect the handling of the data you receive is faulty
17:14:45 <Rubidium> dihedral: yeah, I know those lines
17:15:05 <dihedral> hey - at least i have a chance to bother you and at the same time learn something :-D
17:15:08 <Rubidium> OTTD will even return something when it even isn't using the newgrf in the current game
17:15:37 <dihedral> i shall go on a 10 minute hunt
17:15:44 * dihedral hunts for his mistakes
17:16:01 * Rubidium knows the problem though ;)
17:16:10 <dihedral> thanks for letting me bother you as much though :-)
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17:24:37 <Rubidium> dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting: start by dumping the GRF IDs and MD5 checksums that OTTD sends you (in OTTD), the "this are my settings and grfs used"-reply and the ones you receive from your tool in OTTD,the "get newgrf information"-query
17:25:40 <dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting> i checked my hex values against those listed on the master server (servers.openttd.org)
17:25:45 *** dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting is now known as dihedral
17:26:03 <dihedral> and the md5 sums, they are correct
17:26:19 <Rubidium> but WHAT does OTTD receive?
17:26:24 <dihedral> when i send a grf request to the server, and the server does not know it, it dumps that grf id to the console too
17:26:43 <dihedral> in dec- i get a 1380275200, and the server got a 1380275200
17:26:58 <Rubidium> dihedral: it's not in the GRF IDs
17:27:34 <dihedral> i'll check that one :-)
17:27:40 <Rubidium> at least, that's what I gather from the information I got from you
17:27:53 <Rubidium> and I acquired myself from the GRF you gave as example
17:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> GRF IDs are probably more meaningful in hex...
17:29:01 <Rubidium> printing the whole MD5 as a single decimal would be nice though ;)
17:29:22 <Rubidium> dihedral: you can't do that (easily)
17:29:48 <Rubidium> it's like a 256 bits variable you want to print as decimal
17:30:13 <Rubidium> and printf only goes till 64
17:30:21 <Rubidium> so you have to make a biginteger class first
17:30:24 <dihedral> but at least that is a good hint
17:30:33 <Rubidium> you can ofcourse loop the array and dump the hex for each byte
17:30:36 <dihedral> i am either way off, or not at all
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17:41:03 <dihedral> i am missing a 0 for 00 or things like 0e i then only get 0 or e!
17:41:17 <dihedral> :-P how silly is that
17:41:28 <dihedral> that would explain why it worked for some and not for others :-D
17:41:43 <dihedral> i love blaming others for my mistakes... :-P
17:42:08 <Rubidium> printf("%02x", <byte>)
17:42:57 <Rubidium> '\0'-terminated strings
17:43:27 <dihedral> what's wrong with \0 terminated strings?
17:43:53 <Rubidium> you know what the MD5 checksum of that city station is?
17:44:01 <Rubidium> 1600687C50C5AB1E72EDD487CAD50E2A
17:44:16 <Rubidium> guess what, the second byte is 0, i.e. '\0'
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17:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> that should rather be a fixed size array, or?
17:51:39 <dihedral> does that mean that i have to also sent a \0 instead of 0 for the second byte?
17:53:40 <dihedral> Rubidium: how can i get from c.md5sum to the actual hex value? so i can output that on the console
17:54:18 <Rubidium> for (uint i = 0; i < sizeof(c.md5sum); i++) printf("%02x", c.md5sum[i]); printf("\n");
17:54:40 <Rubidium> or something like that
17:58:10 <dihedral> well - then the server just got a 1600687c50c5ab1e72edd487cad50e2a and still sais its unknown
17:58:57 <Rubidium> does the server actually have that newgrf?
18:00:25 <Rubidium> 'cause it will *only* return something when it actually knows the newgrf
18:00:57 <Rubidium> and knowing means same GRFID + MD5
18:01:34 <dihedral> i am getting that info in the info packet
18:01:41 <dihedral> and yes - it's loaded
18:02:04 <dihedral> i am gonna output the grfid along witht the md5 sum just to make sure
18:03:52 <dihedral> ok - what i intend to send is actually getting there
18:04:13 <dihedral> everything is matching now
18:04:40 <Rubidium> then dump the whole list of newgrfs it compares it to too
18:04:45 <SpComb> if I'm letting users change the patch settings on a dedicated server that runs on my machine, are there some settings that I'd want to lack down, that effect e.g. CPU useage?
18:05:18 <Rubidium> autoslopes, build on slopes
18:06:12 <Rubidium> *all* pathfinding patches
18:06:29 <SpComb> well, map_x, map_y need to be able to be changed, but I mean stuff that would stick OpenTTD into a ~infinite loop or such
18:06:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11134 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1238]: vehicles got removed twice from the group list when selling whole trains.
18:06:33 <dihedral> Rubidium: i shall load the gertram set, as it works with that
18:06:38 <dihedral> and see if i can find a diff
18:06:56 <Rubidium> SpComb: infinite loop -> bug
18:07:14 <SpComb> I don't need to disable everything that raises CPU/mem use by 1%, but stuff like setting some kind of pathfinder recursion depth to five million or whatever
18:07:30 <Rubidium> you just wanted to know what patches affect CPU usage
18:07:39 <SpComb> I didn't word my question well enough
18:07:46 <blathijs> Rubidium: He said ~infinite, meaning probably near-infinite
18:08:04 <Rubidium> yeah, knowing the quality of computers, they won't last for infinite length
18:08:05 <blathijs> ie, asking OpenTTD to do practically impossible things would give you a practically infinite loop :-)
18:08:28 <SpComb> just to stop users from breaking my server
18:14:59 <dihedral> Rubidium: the server only outputs messages for the first 2 grfid/md5sum pairs in the packet
18:15:53 <Rubidium> why does it terminate the loop?
18:18:01 <Rubidium> well, only you can tell as I haven't had that problem before
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18:19:13 <dihedral> forget that last one
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18:35:39 <dihedral> looks like the server sends the grfid with a different endianness than it reads it :-P
18:39:51 <dihedral> or to put it even better, what i outputed on the console for the grfid was ... hehe ... what can be seen on servers.openttd.org, not what the server wanted
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18:49:07 <dihedral> Rubidium: thank you ever so much for your help
18:50:17 <dihedral> it finally worked to fetch newgrf lists from #openttdcoop
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19:17:43 <dihedral> TrueBrain: do you know why the masterserver shows a new grf as not yet known?
19:18:45 <Ammler> dihedral: can you catch the infos about that GRF anyway?
19:19:13 <dihedral> just uploading a demo for you
19:20:06 <Ammler> hmm, caching is something you should think about too...
19:20:35 <Ammler> else traffic to masterserver will grow...
19:20:54 <dihedral> i dont query the master server
19:21:26 <dihedral> still needs some optical work but functionality is there :-)
19:22:45 <dihedral> + a link to grfcrawler
19:23:14 <Ammler> about traffic, I thought you need to ask Masterserver about name
19:24:03 <dihedral> i ask the game for the name
19:24:44 <dihedral> for that list of 26 grf's i think its about 3 - 5 separate requests
19:26:26 <Ammler> hmm, pb_viaduct has no "proper" name
19:26:47 <dihedral> if the server cannot determin a name, it sends a filename
19:27:01 <Ammler> its the same in the ottd client
19:27:08 <dihedral> though once there is a cache in place (which i am planing on doing) you could specify a name yourself
19:27:27 <Ammler> yeah, its like a client :)
19:27:41 <dihedral> it does exactly the same as a client
19:28:25 <dihedral> also need to add to the documentation before releasing
19:29:58 <Ammler> these PEAR Template isn't needed, its just for your example?
19:42:56 <dihedral> Ammler: i am used to using pear's HTML_Template_Sigma
19:43:22 <Ammler> SpComb: lol, some guys already played on the testservers, I created at your server. :)
19:43:31 <dihedral> of course you can use any templating system you like, or whatever
19:43:43 <SpComb> http://zapotekii:9160/me/servers/1/config <-- contents of page generated almost entirely from settings.c, settings_gui.c and lang/english.txt, only some things related to the difficulty settings (some strings and the std_id starting offsets) are hardcoded
19:44:00 <SpComb> Ammler: yeah, there tend to be random groups of people choosing a server and playing onit
19:45:32 <SpComb> it renders pretty nicely in links as well
19:47:10 <Ammler> SpComb: many options to set :)
19:47:24 <SpComb> Ammler: more than the ingame OpenTTD GUI lets you
19:49:10 <Ammler> SpComb: but its like usual, changing doesn't affect running game?
19:49:46 <SpComb> nope, implementing the changes doesn't exist yet
19:50:01 <Ammler> it "just" writes the cfg
19:50:52 <SpComb> the displaying's pretty much finished, I'll write that bit next
19:50:55 <Ammler> Cool idea to parse source code....
19:51:18 <SpComb> it'll break if anyone changes the structure of the OpenTTD source in a significant way, though :/
19:51:27 <SpComb> but the code seems to work fine on 0.5.3 and 0.5.2
19:53:05 <dihedral> what do you mean with 'parsing the source code' ?
19:53:26 <SpComb> I can show you the code in a sec
19:53:37 <SpComb> regexps on the output of gcc -E/the file itself
19:54:33 <SpComb> I guess I could write some C code that included settings.c and then wrote out the values there
19:54:41 <SpComb> but then I'd have to compile that and all that
19:55:27 <SpComb> I'll link you to openttd.py once the page loads...
19:56:16 <dihedral> you query the master server?
19:56:26 <SpComb> no, udp.py's part of a seperate project
19:57:10 <SpComb> marttila.de's having some serious performance problems, not sure wha
19:58:09 <dihedral> check the running games :-)
19:59:03 <dihedral> or map generation of everybody in here trying your page :-P
20:00:19 <SpComb> myottd runs on a seperate server
20:02:20 <dihedral> liking this more and more
20:02:28 <Ammler> SpComb: I did never activate advertise, but the servers are on the public list
20:02:42 <SpComb> I don't think the advertise setting works
20:02:50 <dihedral> aint nothing going over good testing :-D
20:02:59 <SpComb> (yes, it remains, like, very, very, alpha)
20:03:36 <Ammler> thats why I was wondering before, I saw the server on the list. :) )
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20:11:57 <Ammler> SpComb: do you also handle limits?
20:13:19 <Ammler> hmm, and is it possible to see which options are changeable on clientside
20:13:57 <Ammler> Brianetta: do you like to install python on your server? :)
20:14:04 <SpComb> Ammler: on the page itself? Not yet, no
20:14:14 <SpComb> the daemon code handles the limits when setting stuff
20:14:55 <SpComb> I intend not to do any checking on the web page yet, I'll just feed them in and catch any errors caused by my config value checking code and/or openttd itself
20:16:05 <Rubidium> dihedral: that GRF has some "magic" GRF ID (I think)
20:16:22 <dihedral> i can see the id though
20:16:42 <Ammler> Rubidium: possible, th_gergo just took random ids
20:17:42 <SpComb> what are you working on now? Something to do with GRFCrawler?
20:17:59 <dihedral> it's the Cantilever Bidge Renewal 83320111
20:18:15 <dihedral> SpComb: added newgrf support to OpenTTDLib
20:18:47 <dihedral> i.e. the CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS and SERVER_NEWGRFS udp packets
20:18:59 <SpComb> I've been told that newgrf crawler offers some kind of API for querying that kind of stuff, but I haven't got a chance to ask eis_os about it yet
20:20:49 <Ammler> btw, is grfcrawler opensource?
20:21:06 <Rubidium> for some "strange" reason there are quite a few NewGRFs with grfid 0 it seems (all unknown though)
20:21:36 <dihedral> why then do i get information on that grf, and the master server says 'unknown'
20:21:41 <Ammler> hmm, then you could have a look on the source for the API
20:21:48 <dihedral> what is the master server doing to get the names?
20:22:08 <Rubidium> but apparantly it sometimes got bogus data replied or so
20:22:36 <Rubidium> on the other hand...
20:22:45 <dihedral> does it have a cache?
20:22:47 <Rubidium> the number is > int32
20:23:42 <dihedral> if it were > int32 i would be getting similar results, no?
20:24:55 <dihedral> but then again - if it were that, would the server send the id correctly?
20:25:38 <dihedral> would the server not have the similar issue when sending out the info packet?
20:25:55 <Rubidium> if the bug is in the MYSQL writing part
20:32:43 <Ammler> Rubidium: should it be UNSIGNED INT32?
20:34:29 <Ammler> GRFID is 4Bytes, so INT32 should be enough, shouldn't?
20:36:09 <Rubidium> printf("%d", int) isn't
20:38:36 <Ammler> (don't unerstand cish)
20:39:16 <Ammler> and more sadly, don't speak english well. :)
20:40:24 <Rubidium> Ammler: that "assumes" the number is signed
20:42:09 <Ammler> so it could be the bug for "not known"?
20:48:05 <dihedral> but that hast to be on the master server right?
20:48:13 <dihedral> or is that in the game server?
20:52:00 <Ammler> yeah, because your script works!
20:53:05 <dihedral> and is that when the master server writes to the sql db or not
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21:12:11 <Rubidium> dihedral: looks like the masterserver has the right info too ;)
21:12:20 <Rubidium> and it's soo much prettier ;)
21:13:42 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
21:13:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11135 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: do not write GRFIDs as if they are signed integers.
21:14:02 <Rubidium> I wonder whether you perform the amount of caching we do ;)
21:15:55 <Ammler> Rubidium / dihedral: is it possible to ask masterserver about infos of GRFs where aren't active in current game?
21:16:21 <Rubidium> what info would the masterserver give you?
21:16:38 <dihedral> Rubidium: caching is to come before i release it
21:16:48 <Ammler> hmm, at least Name and ID
21:16:54 <Rubidium> and it isn't going to log/query all newgrfs a client has
21:17:52 <Ammler> hmm, its more for dihedrals script
21:18:15 <dihedral> why - what do you need to query the master for?
21:18:59 <dihedral> for the viaduct thing?
21:19:05 <Ammler> hmm, we would need infos about every GRF (file) on the server
21:20:00 <dihedral> once a cach is in place, load up to 55 into a game, query (that then gets cached ) and load the next set
21:20:00 <dihedral> until all is cached :-D
21:20:46 <Rubidium> what's wrong with the viaduct thing?
21:20:53 <Ammler> he listed all GRFs, active with green, inactive with red
21:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11136 /extra/website/server_detail.php: [Website] -Fix: for some reason PHP does not handle unsigned integers as it should.
21:22:34 <dihedral> the server does not say which grf's are not loaded
21:22:34 <dihedral> only the ones loaded are also mentioned in the server info
21:22:42 <Phazorx> php has very strange concept about what inegers are... as well as any loosly typed sctripting language
21:23:07 <Brianetta> [21:13] <Ammler> Brianetta: do you like to install python on your server? :)
21:23:17 <Brianetta> Ammler: I wouldn't describe it as a hobby...
21:23:38 <Phazorx> Amdish > English would you care to install....
21:23:49 <dihedral> Brianetta: i got newgrf stuff working :-)
21:24:01 <Brianetta> dihedral: Anything in particular?#
21:24:05 <Ammler> Brianetta: Did you see the alpha from SpComb?
21:24:36 <dihedral> that thing SpComb is working on is really great :-)
21:25:14 <dihedral> yet if you use SpComb's MyOTTD you would not be able to use autopilots irc interface...
21:25:27 <Ammler> dihedral, your app doesn't need any additional things on Briannettas server, I guess
21:25:44 <Brianetta> yep isn't what I was hoping for
21:25:58 <SpComb> the two overlap quite widely, but since the autopilot's in TCL, I'll have to reimplement all the functionality in python
21:26:34 <Brianetta> SpComb: Python has an Expect implementation
21:26:48 <Brianetta> I originally chose Tcl because it had Expect
21:26:49 <Ammler> Brianetta: oh, I guess, MyOTTD could also be used on a more restrictive way
21:27:13 <Brianetta> Expect began as a Tcl extension, but has been ported to perl and Python
21:27:34 <Brianetta> It is asynchronous, yes
21:27:44 <Brianetta> which can be a bit of a pest, frankly
21:28:26 <Brianetta> For example, you can send a command to the server from IRC with the rcon command in autopilot, but can't see the output because autopilot has no way of knowing which output was from which command.
21:28:51 <SpComb> Brianetta: guess what I have 12,000 lines of code sitting around in spbot.irc for :)
21:29:07 <SpComb> oh, well, that way around, still
21:29:32 <Brianetta> Feel free to rip off autopilot's features. You can directly rip the code if you're going GPL
21:29:47 <dihedral> Ammler: i have no idea if Brianetta has php installed on his server
21:29:52 <SpComb> the way the daemon code works is that it sends the command, and then `echo "some-unique-string"`, gathers lines until it gets the unique string, and then goes into the callback chain with those lines
21:30:13 <Brianetta> dihedral: You should have an idea, if you ever wondered wtf ppcis.org was
21:30:48 <dihedral> i dont really that often pay attention to thee file name endings in the location bar
21:30:52 <Brianetta> SpComb: I use that trick once
21:30:55 <SpComb> the callback stuff comes from Twisted
21:30:56 <Brianetta> for the players command
21:31:24 <dihedral> Brianetta: but i shall assume that your have php installed - but which version ?
21:31:46 <Ammler> dihedral, #openttdcoop is on his server...
21:31:50 <Brianetta> trouble is, autopilot is so asynchronous that if I used that trick twice, I could easily get two start markers and two stop markers, and not know which data from the intervening lines was associated with which block.
21:31:56 <SpComb> I use it for all commands, commands(cmd, *args) returns a deferred which callbacks with a list of the lines you get out
21:32:33 <Brianetta> autopilot has had one complete rewrite already
21:32:36 <dihedral> Ammler: figured that in the mean tiME :-P
21:32:37 <Brianetta> it could do with another
21:32:41 <SpComb> I only run one command at a time, currently raise an error if there's one going on already, but if the need arises, I can simply add a queue
21:33:02 <Brianetta> That's not a bad idea, but the server is also pumping out its own output
21:33:18 <Brianetta> and that doesn't respect your markers
21:33:39 <SpComb> I have the callback functions filter out stuff they don't recognize, the debug output may well sneak in between when you write echo and read the result
21:33:44 <Brianetta> In my case, any chat lines that appear int he middle of a players command are lost.
21:33:52 <Brianetta> Haven't seen that happen yet, but it could...
21:34:20 <SpComb> I don't parse "events" at all yet, but the callback functions would pass any unrecognized lines to some function which extracts the events
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21:35:01 <Brianetta> You've probably put more effort into extensible code than I did
21:35:03 <dihedral> Brianetta: php4 or 5?
21:35:08 <Brianetta> dihedral: 5 probably
21:35:11 <SpComb> does openttd have the player command stuff in the same thread as the network stuff?
21:36:02 <Brianetta> _SERVER["SCRIPT_FILENAME"] /home/ottdcoop/website/info.php
21:36:19 <Brianetta> revealing your real file locations
21:36:22 <dihedral> Ammler: i cannot give you the 'not used' grf list, only a list of grf's which are loaded
21:36:50 <SpComb> argh, fullscreen popups on the second monitor, that's evil
21:37:00 <Brianetta> Ammler: Depends whether there's some exploit which is made easier by knowing that
21:37:31 <Ammler> Brianetta: I mean, was it bad to publish that?
21:37:43 <Brianetta> If anybody wants the source code to my standard server's web page, I'll happily send it
21:37:56 <Brianetta> Ammler: It's your web site.
21:38:02 <Ammler> Brianetta: but you did that handish?
21:38:28 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
21:40:00 <Brianetta> Just talking about server control programs
21:40:27 <Jango> what kind of control? what kind of servers?
21:40:37 <Jango> i use ssh to control mine :)
21:40:59 <Brianetta> SpComb seems to have thought his through rather more fully than I did mine
21:41:00 * SpComb is writing something that could be used as a web interface for OpenTTD dedicated servers
21:41:39 <Jango> what's the main requirement?
21:42:01 <Jango> i notice on the CIA rss feed that Rubidium is the one making all the changes recewntly
21:42:02 <SpComb> but it's also a software-as-a-service model, so you can create your own server and run it there
21:42:17 <Brianetta> Rubidium is the current lead maintainer, I believe
21:42:48 <Brianetta> Thanks, Bjarni. Now I have bash.org open in a browser.
21:42:48 <Bjarni> but I wonder why Dutchovia's country code is .nl
21:43:05 <Bjarni> Brianetta: you are welcome
21:43:05 <Jango> that's a site i haven't been to in a while
21:43:25 <Jango> i quit facebook again yesterday too
21:43:31 <SpComb> Brianetta: I assume that you query localhost for info like the starting date?
21:43:58 <SpComb> or is the start date hardcoded into the page?
21:44:00 <Jango> a social networking site that's quite popular in uk
21:44:09 <Brianetta> SpComb: The web site has the date, and that's through UDP. autopilot doesn't know about dates.
21:44:25 <Brianetta> The web page and autopilot are separate. They only communicate, if at all, though MySQL.
21:44:47 <SpComb> there's a getdate console command which I use, but no way to get the start date (or current climate, map size, etc) on the console
21:44:48 <Jango> is that the most efficient way?
21:44:57 <Brianetta> getdate is newer than 0.5
21:44:58 <Jango> wouldn't you have to poll mysql for changes?
21:45:11 <Brianetta> The console is lacking a great many things
21:45:17 <Brianetta> Jango: It's a web page.
21:45:24 <Brianetta> It polls if you refresh.
21:45:24 <SpComb> I have a daemon process and a web process, they share a postgres db and the web process also makes HTTP requests for JSON to the daemon for quite a lot of things
21:45:39 <Jango> but presumably the autopilot is a daemon?
21:45:44 <Brianetta> Jango: It's a wrapper
21:45:58 <Brianetta> parses the output, types in input
21:46:12 <SpComb> (the daemon process spawns multiple openttd subprocesses and communicates with them all)
21:46:23 <Brianetta> To be honest, SpComb is reawakening my interest
21:46:38 <Rubidium> Brianetta: getdate is in (branches/)0.5
21:46:57 <Jango> you appear to be doing a lot of work recently
21:47:00 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Ah. Well, since I have no code that needs the date, it remains moot
21:47:13 <Rubidium> some Australian person I presume?
21:47:31 <Rubidium> then morning is still far far away
21:47:31 <Jango> i just say morning whenever
21:47:47 <Brianetta> one hour and then some
21:48:00 <Brianetta> One h our rounded to the nearest hour
21:48:05 <Jango> yeah, i think my clock's a bit fast
21:48:05 <Rubidium> well, morgen maybe, but morning?
21:48:21 <SpComb> I use getdate for savegame names and the status info
21:48:21 <Brianetta> That's a precision of not even 4%
21:48:44 <Jango> i work in banking - we don't do accuracy
21:48:55 <Brianetta> accuracy != precision
21:49:05 <Rubidium> oh, they certainly do
21:49:08 <Brianetta> Banks are always precise
21:49:21 <Brianetta> but accuracy can be way off
21:49:42 <Jango> however, i wasn't even accurate
21:49:47 <Jango> hence the slackness of terms
21:49:56 <Bjarni> they once failed to inform me about a huge fee :(
21:50:03 <Brianetta> That's not imprecision
21:50:12 <Brianetta> I bet the fee was carefully calculated to the nearest penny
21:50:33 <Bjarni> I had to pay 25 to be allowed to pay a bill of 69
21:51:34 <Jango> i think that's almost illegal
21:51:43 <Jango> a lot of people in uk are claiming back those kinds of fees
21:52:15 <Bjarni> but I was informed once this guy had run it though the computer and stamped "paid" on the bill
21:52:22 * SpComb is behind a NAT for the first time in two years :(
21:52:43 <Bjarni> and if I should make a fuss about it, I would have missed a lecture :(
21:53:02 <Brianetta> High precision, low accuracy
21:53:12 <Bjarni> but it was the last time I used that particular bank
21:53:33 <dihedral> that is great Brianetta
21:54:39 <Bjarni> oh and the ISP, who sent out those bills of such minor amounts... they are out of business
21:55:01 <Brianetta> SpComb: You parse the source code?
21:55:22 <SpComb> Brianetta: yes, to get info on patches, settings and difficulty settings
21:55:40 <Jango> i like the irony t-shirt
21:56:23 <SpComb> so I get all the strings from the language files, min/max values, types, selectable values, etc
21:56:59 <Brianetta> Perhaps I should finally learn Python
21:57:29 <Brianetta> SpComb: Mine has "has joined the game" hard-coded in )-:
21:58:47 <SpComb> well, I don't handle the *** events yet, but I'd probably just assume I'm running on american.lng and so on
21:59:13 <Bjarni> english.lng is default
21:59:17 <Brianetta> I was going to make mine multi-lingual
21:59:22 <Brianetta> It already has language files
21:59:23 <Rubidium> SpComb: you can assume it runs with that language variable that people configured in ;)
21:59:43 <Rubidium> you can just parse the other language files to get the correct strings :)
21:59:49 <SpComb> does the server's language have any effect on the language of the clients?
21:59:53 <dihedral> i am so happy i dont have to mess around with that :-)
21:59:59 <Brianetta> SpComb: I don't believe so
22:00:05 <SpComb> I'd rather just pick one language, run the server on that and hardcode the strings into my source
22:00:27 <Brianetta> Actually, I started writing a Tk interface to autopilot
22:00:35 <dihedral> what if you have someone who does not know english and wants to use your app?
22:00:55 <Brianetta> dihedral: They don't need to know English. The app does.
22:01:06 <Brianetta> The app's own output can be internationalised.
22:01:10 <dihedral> and how is the config then displayed :-)
22:01:12 <Rubidium> that person has a big problem cause half of the website is in English and untranslateable
22:01:16 <SpComb> dihedral: I mean the stuff that happens internally on the console, I could change openttd.py to use some other language file, as long as it uses the same {STRING1} {COMMA}% stuff as english
22:01:21 <Rubidium> the configuration page at least
22:01:40 <SpComb> (changing the language in openttd.py would change what's displayed on the config editing page)
22:01:55 <SpComb> the only hardcoded strings on there are "Difficulty" and "Difficulty level"
22:02:23 <Rubidium> SpComb: *and* all those strings that aren't in *.lng
22:02:39 <Rubidium> rather variable names, but still
22:03:19 <SpComb> not very much I can do about those
22:14:29 <Brianetta> how do you get a Cisco Certified Network Administrator off your porch?
22:14:43 <Brianetta> pay for your pizza...
22:14:46 <Jango> tell him that you are a CCIE?
22:23:23 <Sacro> Bjarni: do you have a mac with a tilt sensor?
22:27:07 <Bjarni> Sacro: why do you want to know that?
22:29:06 <Bjarni> I'm not a tilt expert if that is what you want to know :p
22:30:36 <Ailure> and to think that's used to put the head on the HD in a safe position whenever the laptop is dropped
22:30:53 <blathijs> That was the excuse for putting it in
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22:36:45 <Bjarni> looks like those squirrels outsmart Sacro
22:37:06 <Ailure> What kind of animal is Sacro?
22:37:26 <Bjarni> never really thought of that
22:37:36 <Bjarni> he just Sacro, our channel pet
22:39:57 <Ailure> bet people start making similar spoofs though
22:40:15 <Bjarni> not as funny as the tetris one
22:40:27 <Sacro> i think that;s a spoof of the x-box live one
22:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have seen something similar a while back...
22:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i think it was about xbox
22:42:30 <Ailure> I alwayws wanted to do some kind of doom/openTTD crossover :P
22:42:40 <Ailure> only becuse it would be so dumb
22:44:13 <Bjarni> took me a while to find it... I first found it with Japanese subtitles only
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22:49:34 <Sacro> ITS 2 BLOBS FROM DR ROBOTNIKS MEAN BEAN MACHINE :D
22:51:10 <Bjarni> I like how he looks below his gaming device for the block, that fell though
22:51:28 <Bjarni> like it would fall into his lap
22:57:17 <Ailure> so hey I hadn't paid attention in the last 500-700 revisios or so
22:57:25 <Ailure> and apart from autoslopes, anything new? :P
22:57:42 <Bjarni> like 500-700 other commits
22:58:08 <Ailure> I did skim through the commits, but there's lots of them :P
22:58:13 <Ailure> So I might missed something
22:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> svn log --limit 700
22:58:41 <Ailure> I already checked the log
22:58:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> who uses more anymore?
22:59:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> more is so 25 row screen...
22:59:17 <Ailure> wish I was using Linux right now
22:59:26 <Ailure> was cursing earlier today over the limited command line in Windows
22:59:34 <Ailure> and missed using Linux right away
23:00:04 <Prof_Frink> Cygwin makes it suck less
23:00:34 <Bjarni> the only issue I have with more is that I should not resize the window while more is in progress... otherwise it works just fine and gets the job done
23:00:37 <Prof_Frink> But I have not used Windows at home in ages
23:01:40 <Ailure> and I was unable to learn my grandpa to play Super Mario bros
23:02:38 <Ailure> his reactionn-time have a bit to wish sometimes
23:02:58 <Ailure> he seems to get distracted now and then
23:03:16 <Bjarni> any naked girls at your place?
23:03:18 <Ailure> when Pac Man is staring into the wall for a few seconds
23:04:36 <Bjarni> heh... disregard my last line... I read it as YOU were distracted now and then :P
23:05:08 <Ailure> Well there are naked girls
23:05:13 <Ailure> ...not real ones though. :P
23:05:27 <Ailure> and they're hidden away in my computer
23:05:35 <dihedral> well - good night ladies
23:05:51 <dihedral> and thank you Rubidium, really appreciate you helping me out :-)
23:05:52 <Ailure> I think they're in that truc set rofl
23:06:00 <Bjarni> dihedral: they are on Ailure's HD and can't answer you :P
23:06:01 <Ailure> and I don't like that set D:
23:07:29 <Sacro> my new mobile has a usb port
23:07:36 <Sacro> and no instructions on how to acutally remove the cover
23:07:43 <Sacro> and now i think i've just bent the cover D:
23:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> no problem that cannot be solved with sufficent violence
23:08:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: they usually call that "child protection"
23:08:38 * Sacro might have to go back into the store tommorow and get a new unbent cover
23:08:42 <Sacro> and complain for the lack of instructoins
23:10:07 <Ailure> so what's the danger of
23:10:51 <Bjarni> at least if they follow the standard
23:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> err, i think you missed the joke...
23:10:55 <Ailure> You can probably make a zapper with a really strong capacitor
23:10:58 <Sacro> now i have damaged my phone
23:11:04 <Sacro> havong had it... about 8 hours
23:11:18 <Ailure> it was worse for my dad
23:11:23 <Ailure> he owned a phone for a whole minute
23:11:29 <Ailure> saw the screen was scratched
23:12:58 <Sacro> either way, its not suitable for purpose
23:13:06 <Sacro> so i should be fine going back into the store tommorow
23:13:10 <Sacro> not that i'm happy with that idea
23:13:23 <Bjarni> how did you manage to get that phone?
23:13:33 <Bjarni> who is looking for it right now? :P
23:14:51 <Bjarni> who is looking for his wallet then?
23:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> i am looking for my wallet
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23:21:10 <ln-> has anyone travelled through the eurotunnel?
23:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> i only went by ferry (once in each direction)
23:25:02 <ln-> i went twice, first on finnair and about 10 years later on ryanair.
23:26:11 <Bjarni> I will never use Ryanair
23:26:34 <ln-> because you think they can't fly?
23:26:56 <Bjarni> because they sucks at cleaning the planes and crew education
23:27:59 <Bjarni> not to mention minimal maintenance
23:29:14 <ln-> 35 passengers had refused to stay in a sterling.dk plane last week, because the air conditioning was broken and the door didn't close properly.
23:29:26 <ln-> so they exited before takeoff.
23:30:30 <Bjarni> I didn't say sterling was any better :P
23:30:42 <ln-> i've flown on sterling once.
23:32:00 <Bjarni> being Danish isn't always the same as being top quality
23:32:10 <Bjarni> we wish it to be like that, but it isn't
23:32:22 <ln-> so what is the top quality airline?
23:32:28 <Bjarni> there are some good companies and then some not so good ones to spoil the reputation :(
23:32:35 <ln-> or one that is good enough for you to fly on
23:32:51 <Bjarni> you know... I usually go by train
23:35:12 <Bjarni> I have a story about flying INTO a pub (or rather, a not so nice drinking place)
23:35:31 <ln-> so what airline have you flown on?
23:35:58 <Bjarni> the window was smashed and the drunk people in there called the police telling them that "somebody throws knives at us"
23:37:08 <Bjarni> turned out that it was a diesel locomotive that malfunctioned and the power produced from braking went to the fan in the roof instead of the resistors. The fan gained speed and lifted itself up into the air and started throwing metal around
23:38:03 <Bjarni> <ln-> so what airline have you flown on? <-- SAS, Maersk Air and Icelandair
23:38:51 <Bjarni> Icelandair is actually decent
23:38:59 <Bjarni> or at least it was a few years ago
23:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> i went to USA in icelandair
23:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> that was back in 2000
23:40:51 <Bjarni> I once encountered an overbooking issue with them and I was relocated to first class
23:43:55 <ln-> Bjarni: and after the recent events can you say SAS's maintenance is in full shape?
23:46:12 <Bjarni> well... Bombadier claimed the part to be durable and should live the whole lifetime of the place. The issue is that the bolt in question is inside the hydraulic system and isn't checked, so it's a flaw for all airlines owning the plane type in question "Q8-dash 400" (or something like that)
23:46:45 <Bjarni> I didn't claim SAS to be good either. I just said I tried to fly with them
23:48:24 * ln- has flown with Finnair, SAS, Iberia, Ryanair, Spanair, Sterling, Finncomm
23:49:11 <Bjarni> ever considered settling down?
23:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> and never once had a plae crash?
23:49:45 * Belugas has flown on the wings of a dream, now he knows his father's betreat, now his wings turn to hashes his grave
23:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> 't understand a single word Belugas says
23:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> must be some kind of language barrier
23:51:06 <Belugas> naaa... just the pressure's getting out
23:51:16 <mcbane> br glad ya didnt fly with oget turs (turkish airlines)
23:51:32 <Belugas> in fact, it was a little part of Iron Maiden, Flight of Icarus :D
23:52:09 <Bjarni> mcbane: I wouldn't do that... they likely don't connect me with my destination
23:54:14 <mcbane> well i flew severel times with SAS and it was always quite flight (well one time we hit a storm that wasnt fun)
23:54:15 <Bjarni> well... since I rarely leave Scandinavia, I have little use for Turkish airlines ;)
23:54:34 <ln-> Bjarni: for example, this year i've only flown seven times, and i only have two booked flights waiting. (flight = take-off + landing, not a return trip)
23:55:00 <Bjarni> ln-: so far I have flown 0 times this year
23:55:17 <Bjarni> which is a change of 0 compared to last year
23:55:58 <ln-> Bjarni: but between years (1998,2005) i didn't fly even once.
23:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> i flew once to USA, and once to Portugal
23:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> and one time i did a sail-flight roundtrip
23:58:03 <Bjarni> ok, I have some coding to do so I will not talk about planes anymore
23:58:15 <Bjarni> in fact I will go to bed
23:59:54 <Bjarni> wow... SmatZ was lurking
continue to next day ⏵
