IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-14
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02:13:03 <kyevan> How does ottd look for newgrf files?
02:13:26 <kyevan> If two people have the same file, named differently, can they share saves, for instance?
02:14:29 <DaleStan> kyevan: It looks at GRFID and MD5 sum.
02:15:07 <kyevan> DaleStan: That's what I thought, thanks :)
02:17:06 <kyevan> And I'm guessing when it says it loads a 'compatable' set, it's the same ID but a different hash?
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07:26:37 <blathijs> Noldo: I still have your expenses type patch open in my browser, but I can't seem to find the time to look at it right now :-)
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08:16:25 <phryx> ok something is VERY wrong here. :S
08:16:41 <phryx> anyone that can cut and paste my quit?
08:17:30 <Wolf01> [09:52:49] * Quits: phryx (~phryx@c-ada5e355.1811-6-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
08:18:15 <phryx> noone else on my server quitted. :S
08:19:05 <Wolf01> i else get most of the times "software caused connection abort"
08:19:22 <Wolf01> with no apparent reaseons
08:19:40 <phryx> well, it happened on all the networks i was connected to, and i have 5 shellusers on my machine atm and none of them quitted
08:19:48 <phryx> just my account was affected
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09:23:02 <SmatZ> why the channel's topic starts with "0.5.2 ..." ?
09:23:28 <alex_> version number of stable
09:24:30 * SmatZ feels a bit dumb now :-x
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10:46:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10886 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp settings.cpp):
10:46:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: modify the "start network server" GUI so it can actually handle
10:46:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: more than 10 clients/companies/spectators in a nice way, i.e. without making a
10:46:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: combobox with 100 players and add 90 new strings to be able to do so.
10:47:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10887 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove the strings that were removed from english.txt in r10886.
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11:17:26 <Nameeater> I use it all the time
11:17:36 <Nameeater> only a genius would use 'mom' tho hah :)
11:17:49 <peter1138> but people using "mom" by itself on a line bug me
11:18:12 *** peter1138 changes topic to "0.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | mom is not an appropriate abbreviation for moment, but mo is."
11:21:08 <Nameeater> yea, its an extra character off an acceptable abbreviation
11:23:20 <Nameeater> I'm guessing its ok to ask in here, do you really get more money if you transport coal further?
11:24:02 <Ammler> Ask yourself, why not?
11:25:34 <Nameeater> because like all the other goods it goes downwards on the cargo payment chart
11:26:17 <Nameeater> mind you, I think just re-reading that graph I may have been understanding it wrong
11:26:31 <peter1138> the graph is constant distance
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12:09:01 <SmatZ> Rubidium: seems latest commit broke build for me...
12:09:09 <SmatZ> /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp:50: error: size of array 'a' is negative
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12:09:31 <Rubidium> the wonders of 64 bits ;)
12:10:20 <Rubidium> does it help when you move line 40 before the two pointers in the struct in network_gui.cpp?
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12:11:41 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, it helps
12:13:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10888 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10886): 64 bits alignment made a struct too big.
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13:59:55 <SmatZ> the behaviour of the always_build_infrastructure patch seems a bit strange for me...
14:01:05 <SmatZ> when I have open windows with build tools
14:01:17 <SmatZ> i can build rail/airports
14:01:40 <SmatZ> I though it works in multiplayer, that when this patch is enabled, nobody can build rail
14:01:58 <SmatZ> but it just disables some buttons in the menu
14:02:07 <SmatZ> so I am a bit confused :)
14:05:16 <Rubidium> some people were 'annoyed' by the fact that the infrastructure building windows were available when they could not build vehicles for that type of transport (when for example road vehicles are disabled)
14:05:40 <Rubidium> so you can choose whether you want those buttons to be disabled/greyed when you can't build the vehicles
14:06:10 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes ... I just expected different behaviour, thanks for explanation
14:06:12 <Rubidium> *but* when you already have a vehicle of the type that you may not build (anymore), you can still build that infrastructure
14:07:18 <SmatZ> the only thing you cannot do, is to Remove (not Demolish) railroad track when you have some
14:07:35 <SmatZ> that check would be expensive...
14:08:23 <Rubidium> by the way, the GUI description of the patch is more clear as it's a little longer
14:09:38 <SmatZ> is it in the source code?
14:11:01 <SmatZ> btw - I can build (with a modified client) tramway track, even when it is grayed out for others ... no matter how the patch is set
14:11:27 <SmatZ> it doesn't cause desync
14:11:48 <Maedhros> it only affects the gui, afaik
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14:13:34 <helpttd> i cant see any vehicles
14:13:41 <Sacro> According to Wikipedia 10.6M people are Portuguese
14:13:52 <Sacro> what year is the game set to?
14:14:27 <helpttd> my brother changed option
14:14:38 <Priski> there is no actual initial, game keeps the last used date
14:14:51 <Priski> unless you play it first time
14:15:43 <SmatZ> yes, the tramtrk.grf file is present, but everybody has it disabled in the menu, so nobody can build it ... maybe it should be checked, like nobody can build monorail before it is available - I can build (electrified) tramway track in 1900
14:15:49 <Rubidium> helpttd: ever heard of NewGRF?
14:16:29 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you can modify your client to build monorail in 1900
14:16:47 <Rubidium> helpttd: the standard vehicles only start to appear from 1920
14:16:48 <SmatZ> Rubidium: really? I tried it, but it desynced
14:16:58 <Rubidium> and in some climates even later
14:17:33 <helpttd> WHERE I CHANGE THE YEAR
14:18:04 <peter1138> ooh, cruise control
14:18:23 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you're right; there's some hidden check somewhere
14:18:23 <SmatZ> helpttd: you can choose the year while generating the game or in the scenario editor ... or using cheats, Ctrl+Alt+C
14:19:08 <Rubidium> though I don't see a real problem in being able to build tram tracks when you don't have trams (yet)
14:19:16 <Priski> helpttd, ctrl+alt+C or ctr+shift+c ingame, bring up cheats menu
14:19:30 <Priski> there you can change date ingame
14:19:44 <Rubidium> they're technically the same as normal road, which you can always build
14:20:04 <hylje> i dont care if it is feasible or not
14:20:13 <Priski> no wonder you dont see trains, they were invented 430 years later ;)
14:20:17 <Belugas> bring us a patch, we'll see
14:20:46 <Priski> bring cargo with horse wagons
14:20:58 <hylje> or, rather, historic ttd
14:20:59 <Priski> would that be nice idea for new features :D
14:21:22 <hylje> unless its years are 1900-origin
14:21:25 <Priski> yeah but is there such newgrf anywhere?
14:21:38 <hylje> the ideas have been thrown
14:22:22 <helpttd> I CANT SEE ANY VEHICLES
14:22:33 <Maedhros> please stop abusing your capslock key
14:22:43 <Maedhros> and no, you probably won't see any until 1940
14:23:33 <helpttd> 1 more question: i cant modify the End Of Game...
14:24:01 <glx> it's only for network games
14:24:12 <glx> for single player it's fixed
14:24:25 <helpttd> so the game will not end at this date?
14:24:54 <Priski> thats because game keeps scoreboard for games
14:25:17 <helpttd> the game will not end at this date?
14:25:33 <glx> it will show you the score
14:25:42 <glx> but you can continue to play after
14:25:42 <Priski> game "ends" at 1.1.2051 where score is get and but in hiscore list, but you can keep playing forever after that
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14:26:41 <Priski> sometimes i start my single player games in 2051, since i hate upgrading huge networks from rail->monorail or maglev
14:27:27 <Belugas> hylje: newgrf cannot define introduction date lower then 1920. There is a thread about that on the forum about a possible fix/hack but it's not done yet.
14:27:45 <Rubidium> Belugas: they can...
14:27:48 <Priski> i have waited for moment when that could do with fev clics but I can imagine that such feature would be hard to make "properly"
14:28:18 <Maedhros> Belugas: long format introduction dates :)
14:28:56 <Ailure> ah yeah gotta love tha corny image someone made of a horse-driven wagon somewhere
14:29:17 <Ailure> some 19th century trains would be intresting to play with though
14:29:38 <Rubidium> Ailure: serbian narrow gauge
14:30:02 <Ailure> guess I should check it out
14:30:14 <Ailure> I actually kinda ignored all narrow gauge sets for now, but maybe I should check them out.
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14:32:03 <Belugas> Rubidium true. hylje, my apologies
14:32:17 <Belugas> but houses do not have it!
14:32:32 <Belugas> it's still based on standard 1920
14:35:24 <Ailure> if Chris Sawyer designed Unix
14:35:35 <Ailure> zero time would be Januari 1, 1920
14:36:32 <Xintron> Wiee, just sold my moped. Gave 6000swedish crowns for it and sold it for 7000 :)
14:36:44 <Priski> times with 8 bytes would be enough
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14:37:41 <Priski> if i remember correctly current timestamp is 4bytes (32bits) and when it starts 1970 it ends somewhere 2030
14:38:55 <Ailure> especially wen you consider how stuff usually decreases in value over time
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14:39:16 <Priski> 4.29 billion seconds...
14:39:55 <Priski> talking about 32bits, when does ipv6 comes to at larger use
14:40:11 <Priski> nothing seems to be going forward on that issue
14:40:56 <Ailure> most newer hardware and OS's supports it
14:41:16 <Ailure> but there's no push for it from the political side or anything
14:41:27 <Priski> Ailure, yeah but ipv4 are running out, but natting technologies help a lot
14:41:43 <Ailure> NAT is a pain in the ass
14:41:49 <SmatZ> Priski: what does ipv4 and 32bit time have in common?
14:41:58 <Priski> but still machines that needs internet connection continues to rise
14:42:05 <Ailure> NAT was only made to solve some problems of ipv4
14:42:10 <RichK67> skidd13: do you know how to put together a palette sprite?
14:42:19 <helpttd> how i put the helicopter and other
14:42:36 <Priski> SmatZ, it can contain only 4.29 billion different ip:s
14:43:08 <SmatZ> Priski: well.. I just don't understand the connection between ipv4 and time measurement... the only connection is that both uses 32bits, okay :)
14:43:36 <RichK67> i want a green version of the red/blue selection sprite palette, but dont know what to change (sprite 772 of trg1r.grf)
14:43:43 <SmatZ> helpttd: click on the hangar and build some
14:44:03 <Priski> SmatZ, i know it's far fetch thing but my own hyperactive brains runs with far fetch things all times
14:44:04 <skidd13> RichK67: give me 10 min. I need to have to have coffee first.
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14:44:47 <Priski> SmatZ, and since I am a programmer I view all things bit differently than commoners...
14:45:01 <Priski> a nerd you would maybe say...
14:45:34 <SmatZ> Priski: 2^32 seconds ~ 136 years
14:45:35 <Priski> "welcome to the MATRIX"
14:45:59 <SmatZ> hmm I though you were talking about some 32b timestamp in the ipv4 header I didn't know about
14:47:52 <Priski> SmatZ, yeah i did notice that but i did not know why does so many places say that it "runs out" at 2030, or maybe it was counted from 1900 actually...
14:48:38 <RichK67> 1/1/1900 was base for several opsys
14:49:27 <Priski> most things that I say are factually unaccurate or completely incorrect
14:49:45 <Priski> so dont take me too seriously :)
14:49:47 <SmatZ> Priski: because you are a programmer? :-)
14:50:05 *** skidd13|away is now known as skidd13
14:51:11 <Priski> SmatZ, i'm not sure why, i tend to think things too fast and I can only consentrate only when i really am intrested...
14:52:06 <Priski> SmatZ, as way i see it, I am not what i tend to tell people, peole are what they do, not what they say...
14:53:19 <Priski> maybe i think too "out-of-box" like some people has said to me, so out that i dont even see the box anymore...
14:54:28 <Rubidium> the (unix) timestamp is a 32 bits signed integer (AFAIK)
14:54:43 <Rubidium> and the unix wrap is in January of 2038
14:57:06 <Priski> and we have someone that says thing accurately and factually... thank you :)
14:57:20 <RichK67> DaleStan: not really... i read it, but in the grfcodec decodes, it sometimes runs together some of the values as their ascii equivalent string, and it gets *really* hard to read them
14:58:20 <DaleStan> renum can fix that if you turn the beautifier on, or decode with -t, and grfcodec will write everything in hex.
15:00:20 <RichK67> ok, cool... ill run nforenum on it... i want to have the overlay placement mask for land/water showing as green/blue... it would be cool :)
15:01:38 <DaleStan> You do have to explicitly turn the beautifier on, either with -b+ (globally) or with the //@@BEAUTIFY commands.
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15:32:55 <skidd13> RichK67: Sorry I dissappeard so fast (real life). Do you still need this recolor sprite?
15:35:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10889 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: Colour of highlight for FSMs with placement masks shows Green for land tiles, and Blue for water tiles.
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17:05:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10890 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1125]: removing road with the road removal tool would also work with a negative bank account, making the bank account even more negative than it was.
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17:17:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10891 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
17:17:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Added ramp and 2 jetties to seaplaneport.grf. (Thanks to 0004tom).
17:17:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change: modified movement to move around jetties, and FSM for better block handling.
17:17:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change: Modified prop 20 (temporarily) to allow all small aircraft, for testing.
17:20:49 <Sionide> must not get sucked into qdb.... -_-
17:21:01 <Sionide> got... other.. stuff to do... arrrggghhh
17:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> the dark side it is :p
17:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's quite new
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17:31:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10892 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1127]: trains would not get flooded when they are at the lower part of a tile that would become a coast tile after flooding. Patch by frosch.
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19:26:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10893 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/airport_gui.cpp:
19:26:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Ensure coloured & masked selections disabled on exit of airport_gui.
19:26:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: If no airport is selectable on change of airport class, ensure highlight is only a 1x1 square.
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20:10:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r10894 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
20:10:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-08-14 22:08:16
20:10:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 5 fixed, 1 changed by arnaullv (6)
20:10:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 5 fixed, 1 changed by Hadez (6)
20:10:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 fixed, 1 changed by habell (6)
20:10:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 5 fixed, 1 changed by glx (6)
20:10:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 5 fixed, 1 changed by miham (6)
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21:25:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10895 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Only visually leave the hangar if the aircraft can successfully move to its chosen destination. Enables the decision to proceed to based on block reservations in the hangar commands, not in code.
21:28:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10896 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (seaplaneport.grf sprites/seaplaneport.nfo):
21:28:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Redesign of seaplaneport.grf to allow access to terminal 1 even when runway is in use.
21:28:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Changes can also be ported to Small Airport.
21:30:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10897 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/newgrf.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Cleanup: Removed superfluous comments.
22:02:10 <Wezz6400> not supporting ftp is rediculous if you ask me
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22:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "Not setting a password on your company anytime before you disconnect from the server." <- again, people should rather create passwords on creating the company
22:07:04 <Ameecher> is peter1138 actually active in this channel?
22:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> rather unlikely at this hour... although not impossible
22:07:37 <Wezz6400> I've seen him active on this channel, could be a couple of days ago though
22:07:48 <Ameecher> Eddi|zuHause, has he been today?
22:07:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 49 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <peter1138> ooh, cruise control
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22:27:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10898 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (7 files in 4 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: replace GetAirport and GetValidAiports by GetAvailableAirports which gives a list of available airports that (primarily) AIs can iterate over.
22:54:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10899 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/fsmblockmap.h: [NewGRF_ports] -Add: Added BlockCopy function to fsmblockmap.h.
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22:58:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10900 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/realworldairports.grf:
22:58:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: LaGuardia now only releases the taxi-runway crossing on arrival at the next location. This prevents the near-misses... I hope.
22:58:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: San Francisco is buildable, but not finished state machine. Will declare as Feature when ready for beta testing.
22:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "i hope" does not sound particularly convincing :p
23:00:38 <RichK67> well... im pretty sure it does, but if someone finds one elsewhere....
23:06:04 <Digitalfox> Hum, i want to try newports branch, but still have the same problem, the crash even after deleting opntitle.dat has some people told..
23:06:29 <RichK67> its a warning not a crash
23:06:42 <RichK67> ignore it and continue
23:06:44 <Digitalfox> no rich it crashes after the warning
23:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Digitalfox: then you have another opentitle.dat (e.g. in ~/.openttd)
23:07:09 <RichK67> opntitle.dat will be found somewhere on your system then
23:07:24 <RichK67> ottd does quite a clever search for it
23:07:54 <Digitalfox> so if i have c:\games\pc\openttd it will look even in c:\games ?
23:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not, but for example in documents&settings
23:13:55 <Digitalfox> so and can i block that search?
23:14:08 <Digitalfox> because i have more directorys with openttd games
23:14:39 <glx> it searchs in current dir, document&settings and "install" dir
23:14:57 <glx> it doesn't search in others openttd dirs
23:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there is probably a configure option that disables that search
23:16:03 <RichK67> ive got about 25 installations, and it only looks in my current one
23:16:04 <glx> run "openttd -d misc4" to see where it searchs
23:17:30 <glx> anyway for me it doesn't crashes, it just fails to load the intro game
23:17:53 <Digitalfox> Well i'm compiling the last version and will try again
23:18:33 <Digitalfox> Would it be possible to add a command to disable hash checking?
23:18:43 <glx> I use a --enable-debug=3 build
23:19:01 <glx> hash checking is not the problem I think
23:19:54 <RichK67> damn... i need to do some housecleaning... 30 copies ... 20 of svns!
23:20:40 <RichK67> nope, the hash check is just a warning... it should be fine
23:21:02 <RichK67> opntitle.dat is an expected catastrophic fail
23:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Digitalfox: you can just calculate the md5 yourself, and replace it in the code...
23:22:05 <Digitalfox> I could if i did know how ;)
23:22:06 <RichK67> except im still changing airports.grf, so it will be... err... dynamic ;)
23:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Digitalfox: probably in src/table/files.h
23:28:51 *** Ammlller has joined #openttd
23:41:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10901 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Aircraft that failed to exit the hangar should unreserve any terminal reservations they made.
23:42:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: richk * r10902 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Updated ramp & jetty graphics (thanks to Skidd13). Planes wont exit hangar until entering aircraft has gone in.
23:43:57 <Digitalfox> Well using the command glx gave me, it says in portuguese it something like Fail to open game, impossibility to read file!
23:44:24 <glx> yes I get the same message
23:45:21 <glx> and if you run openttd -g ?
23:47:21 <Digitalfox> glx it opens the game :)
23:53:32 <glx> nice I just tried release build and it crashes
23:54:54 <RichK67> it wont load an old game with better than a city airport
23:55:39 <glx> but I'm trying to find why debug build doesn't crash
23:56:04 <RichK67> what is location it gives in crash?
23:56:31 <glx> openttd.exe caused an Access Violation at location 77c0554a in module msvcrt.dll Reading from location 00000008.
23:56:46 <glx> and as it is a release build, they are no symbols
23:57:24 <RichK67> hmm.... msvcrt.dll ... had that with other apps
23:58:02 <Digitalfox> msvcrt.dll, yes that was the error it gave before :)
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