IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-07-04
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00:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> templates are fun
00:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> if classes are runtime virtualisation, templates are compiletime virtualisation
00:12:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10423 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [YAPF, r10301]: INVALID_TRACKDIR causing buffer overrun leading to desync in MP game (many thanks Rubidium)
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00:49:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10424 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h:
00:49:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix : Toy shop seems to be working exactly like power stations, water tower and banks, i.e: they require cargo but do nothing with it.
00:49:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: So, make it an INDUSTRYLIFE_BLACK_HOLE, exactly like the above mentioned industries.
00:49:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks to glx who spotted, and Csaboka who confirmed it could very well be a CS bug.
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00:54:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10425 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10418): do not compare bitmasks with HASBIT. Strike two. Forgotten code :)
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01:34:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10426 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: Activate the reset of industry/tiles mapping upon initialization or new game.
02:36:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10427 /trunk/src/misc/str.hpp: -Fix: snprintf behaves differently in gcc than in VC causing unreadable artifacts in output. Now CStrT::AddFormatL() should behave correctly also when compiled by gcc (Rubidium)
02:38:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10428 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: some more VC code analyzer warnings disabled
02:44:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10429 /trunk/src/rail.h: -Fix: VC8 Code Analyzer warning: buffer overrun
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04:20:57 <Smoovious> it hasn't been invented yet
04:21:05 <Noldo> it's hanging in the air
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04:48:06 <Gekko> when will you complete it
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05:49:01 <Dutchtransporttycoon> hello polks
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06:38:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10430 /trunk/src/newgrf_town.cpp: -Fix: Too many town rating entry lookups (KUDr)
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07:27:33 <_42_> dihedral, Chris82 (~chris@p579E1FC0.dip.t-dialin.net) was last seen quitting #openttd 13 hours 2 minutes ago (03.07. 18:25) stating "Quit: Mathwork =Oxxx" after spending 5 hours 10 minutes there.
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07:43:14 <Maedhros> oh joy. my FOR_EACH_OBJECT patch is 40kb...
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09:09:58 <peter1138> { { { { have some more } } } }
09:24:26 <Gekkko`> not those braces nublet
09:24:32 <Gekkko`> the ones in your mouth
09:24:52 <peter1138> nope, none in my mouth
09:26:08 <Gekkko`> screw you technicality boy.
09:27:32 * Sionide draws a { on peter1138's cheek in permanent marker pen and a } on the other one
09:33:02 <Maedhros> i'm not sure if stations should work this way though; the specs are a bit vague about it...
09:34:06 <peter1138> well i can think of one problem
09:34:17 <peter1138> if you're defining multiple properties...
09:34:26 <peter1138> and it goes 'past the end'
09:34:35 <peter1138> if it continues you'll be reading the wrong data
09:35:31 <Maedhros> true, although that's already a problem
09:36:21 <peter1138> we need to know how to skip each property :p
09:36:46 <peter1138> and i need to know how to access access databases from linux :/
09:38:36 * Maedhros wonders whether moving the for loop outside the switch statement would be a good idea
09:40:17 <peter1138> i wondered about that last night too
09:40:36 <peter1138> would seem to remove a lot of duplication
09:41:01 <Gekkko`> peter1138: MS Access Databases?
09:41:07 <Gekkko`> OpenOffice I'd presume.
09:41:15 <peter1138> Gekkko`: no such luck
09:41:30 * Gekkko` goes to the Googlemonster for assistance
09:41:48 <peter1138> no, mysql cannot access an access database, heh
09:41:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10431 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: constness on static array
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09:43:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10432 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use existing function instead of data duplication
09:43:10 <Gekkko`> Kexi is a Free/Libre and Open-Source integrated data management application, a long awaited Open Source competitor for products like Microsoft Access. Kexi can be used for creating database schemas, inserting data, performing queries, and processing data. Forms can be created to provide a custom interface to your data. All database objects - tables, queries and forms - are stored in the relational
09:43:27 <Gekkko`> dunno if it loads access dbs though
09:43:41 <peter1138> kexi-mdb-plugin - MS Access (MDB) driver for Kexi
09:44:09 <peter1138> but then i have to install kdelibs ;(
09:44:44 <Gekkko`> that makes it like 15mb
09:47:14 <peter1138> Maedhros: if you move it out of the loop then i don't think you need any FOR_EACH_OBJECT macro...
09:47:24 <peter1138> move the switch into the loop. yes.
09:47:51 <peter1138> buggered if i'm self compiling :p
09:48:36 <Gekkko`> " If you want a minimal Qt too, then you can quite easily compile Qt with minimal dependencies. Here's my configure line:
09:48:42 <Gekkko`> -release -fast -thread \
09:48:42 <Gekkko`> -plugin-imgfmt-mng -qt-imgfmt-jpeg -qt-imgfmt-png \
09:48:42 <Gekkko`> -system-libpng -system-libjpeg -system-zlib -system-libmng \
09:48:42 <Gekkko`> -no-exceptions -no-tablet -no-cups -no-ipv6 -no-xinerama -no-stl -no-nas-sound \
09:48:44 <Gekkko`> -no-style-motif -no-style-cde -no-style-motifplus -no-style-platinum -no-style-sgi
09:51:37 <peter1138> i'm installing it anyway...
09:51:43 <peter1138> finished downloading...
09:51:53 <peter1138> made a note of the packages so i can remove it easily
09:52:04 <peter1138> no, self-compiling stuff brings me to a world of pain
09:52:37 <peter1138> KCrash: Application 'kexi' crashing...
09:52:37 <peter1138> Could not find 'drkonqi' executable.
09:52:38 <peter1138> KCrash cannot reach kdeinit, launching direc
10:02:53 <Maedhros> and now i have another 7 action 0 handlers to do :)
10:08:21 <peter1138> Maedhros: 0x21's broken
10:08:48 <peter1138> 0x27 doesn't need the { }s
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10:30:40 <dihedral> someone was offered a vehicle a year early in the forums... check it out gusy
10:32:43 <dihedral> this is rather sad - but amusing :-)
10:32:50 <hylje> dont vehicles have +-2 year margin in introduction?
10:33:51 <Rubidium> hylje: so? there's always one company that may use the verhicle one year before the others
10:35:21 <Rubidium> that's what dihedral meant
10:52:56 <Gekkko`> that's one screwed up bored dude
11:04:06 <dihedral> was that your autobiography?
11:04:18 <dihedral> "one screwed up bored dude" :-P
11:09:05 <Gekkko`> and I just remember you're an ass.
11:17:49 <Sacro> all that work and you misspelt the filename... start again :p
11:18:26 <peter1138> +cs->label = BSWAP32(grf_load_dword(&buf));
11:18:35 <peter1138> it's separate for a reason :)
11:18:54 <peter1138> unless BSWAP32() is no longer a macro
11:18:55 <Maedhros> ok, i was going to ask you about that one anyway :)
11:19:13 <peter1138> it will call grf_load_dword(&buf) four times :)
11:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe you should use an inline function instead :9
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11:47:45 <Maedhros> ok, i've update the "resuffle" with various minor changes
11:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> a "lost terminal", does that only let you enter "4 8 15 16 23 42"?
12:17:50 <caladan> i like most the strip with guy being struck by lightning after touching lever
12:18:41 <caladan> and it's the same with debbuging code - will it happen again? :D
12:24:25 <SmatZ> caladan: oh no, another comics site, now I will waste whole day looking at all ofthose strips :D
12:26:34 <toresbe> you haven't heard of xkcd before?!
12:29:51 <caladan> SmatZ: not a whole day, they have like 250 strips
12:30:15 <caladan> xkcd is a damn geek comic :D
12:30:20 <hylje> in contrast long-running daily comics are approaching like 2000
12:30:22 <Sacro> but don't forget to read all the mouseovers
12:30:28 <hylje> see toothpaste for dinner (dot com)
12:30:57 <caladan> ah, yeah, megatokyo... haven't read it in months...
12:31:08 <hylje> but i have read dramu about it
12:31:22 <Sacro> whats the one with the murderer
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12:53:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10433 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
12:53:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove FOR_EACH_OBJECT by moving the for loops in the Action 0
12:53:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: handlers outside the switch statements. This allows ignoring only the invalid
12:53:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: IDs when changing the properties for many objects, rather than ignoring the
12:53:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: whole block if one ID is invalid.
12:53:34 <Maedhros> Phazorx: that fixes your infinite loop, by the way :)
12:57:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10434 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r9315): When setting multiple house overrides in one Action 0, don't override them all with the first ID.
13:02:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10435 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r9315): numinfo starts from 1, not 0, so make it possible to define a house with a local id of 255.
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13:30:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10436 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Cleanup: Doxygenise some comments, update others, and make a few statements more consistent with everything else.
13:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> someone's on a roll :)
13:33:36 <Maedhros> when you start out there are so many other things you (or other people) notice :D
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13:46:39 <SmatZ> caladan Sacro thanks, I am just reading it - now I got a problem - http://xkcd.com/c197.html - if you can hardly distinguis those two colors (red/green), the strip has a different meaning :)
13:48:15 <SmatZ> yes, just a graph with two the same colors with the same colors at legend ... takes some time to understand those colors have to be different :)
13:49:01 <Sacro> i've just ran it through visicheck
13:49:05 <Sacro> and it isn't very clear
13:54:50 <peter1138> but they're totally differen t;p
13:56:12 <SmatZ> those filters are not perfect... as everyone has a different amount of red and green cones :)
14:21:03 <hylje> how long can signs nowadays be?
14:22:36 <XeryusTC> or 255 pixels wide IIRC
14:22:49 <XeryusTC> that's for the sign edit window
14:22:53 <hylje> why cant the gui concatenate them? :-)
14:23:03 <XeryusTC> the sign renderer has a max amount of width it can render
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14:28:46 * Sacro just tried to delete a peice of road
14:29:14 <Sacro> IS_INSIDE_1D(i, PLAYER_FIRST, lengthof(_players))
14:30:10 <Sacro> but its 2 nightlies ago
14:36:20 <stillunknown> Is it stored in the map if a bridge ramp is level or not?
14:36:45 <glx> Sacro: try with r10145 :)
14:37:01 <Sacro> glx: i have to wait for orudge to update his server
14:41:17 <dihedral> hylje: i wonder if those waggons spinned as much as the ones in ottd do when there is a crash :-)
14:48:19 <peter1138> stillunknown: i think it isn't
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15:11:18 <_42_> skidd13, Hum... don't you think this nick is a bit long? ^_^
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15:21:05 <peter1138> !seen some long nicks that can be used on irc
15:21:06 <_42_> peter1138, some? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember some.
16:01:01 <Phazorx> Maedhros: thanks, so TTRS is absolutely safe to use even forcing certain gae?
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16:09:31 <Maedhros> Phazorx: unless you find any other bugs in it, yes ;)
16:10:33 <Sacro> can someone join this server, its hilarious ><
16:10:47 <Sacro> KuDr: i *might have a slight pathfinding issue
16:12:26 <Phazorx> Maedhros: it's bound to happen sometimes, i'm glad that one is gone though... was kinda anoyying since i cant debug even
16:12:51 <Sacro> KuDr: seems i was missing a bit of track
16:13:02 <Sacro> i had a train going round a 4 90 degree turns
16:26:46 <Sacro> the timetable window seriously needs more redraw commands
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16:37:53 <Sacro> peter1138: there is a bug
16:38:05 <Sacro> Johnmit has -29K Max Income
16:38:14 <Sacro> and its underflowed when drawing the box on detailed perf rating
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16:43:40 <peter1138> i don't see it in the list of bugs
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16:58:48 <UnderBuilder> hey is someone from the franchise game here?
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17:12:55 <Tlustoch> Please can you tell me what's the maximum size of train station?
17:13:07 <Sacro> it depends on the station spread setting
17:14:19 <Tlustoch> What's some useful size? (For passenger transport)
17:14:33 <Tlustoch> Is it meaningful to build extra large stations in the city?
17:14:44 <Sacro> it all depends on throughput
17:15:51 <Tlustoch> Well, the city can generate only certain number of passangers so I guess it would be meaningless to build something extra large.
17:16:42 <hylje> the city grows over time
17:17:08 <Tlustoch> But the station can cover only limited area.
17:17:57 <UnderBuilder> Sacro: its because I wanted to join but seems that team is full :(
17:17:58 <hylje> you can "walk" it if you liek huge stations
17:18:08 <Sacro> UnderBuilder: indeed... no more companies :(
17:18:31 <Digitalfox> Tlustoch: Why not build more than one station...
17:19:05 <Digitalfox> Even if the city grows you can always build more stations, even if they are trains, buses or planes
17:19:21 <Tlustoch> Sure. I was just asking if there's some _optional_ size of station in the city.
17:19:47 <hylje> it really depends. theres no magic bullet.
17:20:52 <Tlustoch> Btw does anyone want to play online with me?
17:21:17 <Digitalfox> Tlustoch: What you have to keep in mind, is that you should build or a big one ( witch in a big city will never cache all the buildings ) or use more small ones that can catch a lot more
17:21:23 <UnderBuilder> but can I spectate or is that private?
17:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10437 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp rail_gui.cpp):
17:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Automatic signal completion, enabled by pressing ctrl when dragging
17:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: signals. Signals will continue following track until an existing signal,
17:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: junction or station are reached. This currently replaces the existing use of
17:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ctrl-drag for changing existing signal type.
17:22:06 <hylje> damn you peter1138 for making me do it again >:)
17:22:59 <Phazorx> peter1138: briges and tunnels are ignored?
17:31:13 <Tlustoch> And how do you handle rails in the city? Do you build underground or in the city?
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17:32:44 <Tlustoch> When you have enough money, you can build underground without problems
17:32:55 <Tlustoch> So you save space for houses :-)
17:34:56 <Tlustoch> By the way is there some advanced player here?
17:35:07 <Tlustoch> I would like to see save of some really good game.
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17:36:04 <hylje> i just added some newgrf halfway into a game
17:37:19 <stillunknown> Tlustoch: openttdcoop keeps an archive of their games
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17:46:27 <Tlustoch> You didn't try to "build" city all over the map?
17:46:35 <Tlustoch> Or something extraordinary?
17:52:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10438 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
17:52:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-04 19:52:16
17:52:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 20 fixed by WhiteRabbit (20)
17:52:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 21 fixed, 1 changed by ThomasA (22)
17:52:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 10 fixed by izhirahider (10)
17:52:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changed by xbddc (2)
17:54:08 <Thomas[NL]> what does this exactly mean?: ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 116 sprites; try changing NewGRF order
17:55:04 <peter1138> it means you're trying to load multiple vehicle sets
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17:55:53 <Thomas[NL]> the grf giving the error is ttrs3
17:57:02 <peter1138> sorry, i can't read :)
17:57:06 <peter1138> it means what it says
17:57:14 <peter1138> it could allocate some sprites
17:57:32 <peter1138> GRM sprites currently have to be below the old 16384 sprite limit
17:57:41 <peter1138> so... just move ttrs3 further up the newgrf list
18:02:30 <Thomas[NL]> hmm strange DBsetXL overrides the road/rail crossing with the original sprite :/
18:02:48 <peter1138> because it changes the crossing graphics
18:03:02 <peter1138> it tells you how in its readme file
18:03:19 <glx> I though it was a donotreadme :)
18:03:39 <peter1138> glx: don't be silly... nobody would read that ;)
18:06:09 <Thomas[NL]> I never actually played long with dbxl so didn't really look for the parameters
18:06:56 <Thomas[NL]> And these semaphores where different looking, I wasn't confused :)
18:21:32 <stillunknown> peter1138: Why keep the limit for that?
18:22:39 <peter1138> because GRM is a nasty horrible hack which i can't do anything about
18:23:22 <UnderBuilder> someone wants to play on a server?
18:23:59 <peter1138> stillunknown: it has to 'write back' the grm data to the grf, where it is still limited to 14 bits for sprite ids
18:25:25 <peter1138> fortunately all action 1/2/3 stuff (vehicles, houses, industries, stations) does not have that limitation
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18:27:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10439 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: initial steps for customized industry productions.
18:42:32 <stillunknown> I hate it when i get these segfaults that don't let themselves be traced.
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19:02:05 <SteamWilly> is there any way to disable the 'cash-bubbles' and the 'cash-sound'
19:03:21 <Rubidium> make a newgrf that replaces them?
19:04:07 <peter1138> yeah, transport no cargo :D
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19:05:31 <Belugas> they are right, SteamWilly. You cannot disable individual sounds. UNless you do nothing to produce them (transpoet cargo) or you replace them with a newgrf, for quiet sounds or even guitar chords :)
19:05:44 <Tlustoch> Do I have to set pre-signals manualy? In ttdpatch, pre-signals were set automatically.
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19:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember the "automatic" presignals of ttdpatch were a really ugly feature...
19:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but that was like 5 years ago :)
19:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i was using ttdpatch 1.7 or something
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19:45:00 <peter1138> ah, presignals, not automatic signal completion
19:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> no, something entirely different :)
19:55:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
20:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> your house, your pool, your neighbourhood?
20:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (loosely based on a commercial here in germany :p)
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20:43:01 <sHELL> im downloading insurgency
20:43:11 <sHELL> my bandwith is being raped
20:43:31 <sHELL> can't even listen to my radio
20:46:24 <Tlustoch> What vehicle breakdown option do you use?
20:50:55 <Tlustoch> hylje, what breakdown option do you use?
21:15:06 <UnderBuilder> WTF the franchise game server is using UKRSI
21:17:30 <sHELL> ln-, hows the weather in finland?
21:18:00 <hylje> gteborg is not quite finland
21:18:58 <sHELL> ln- is lauri@ksenos.fi * Lauri Nurmi <<< just asuming -_-;
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21:28:00 <UnderBuilder> lol jasper wants to join the franchise game
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21:51:03 <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen smoviou.
21:51:07 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Smoovious was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 30 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Smoovious> it hasn't been invented yet
21:52:20 <Smoovious> I don't talk much in #tycoon
21:53:01 <Smoovious> past several days I've been doing support for T tho... a stable is due out in a few days
21:53:15 <Sacro> ooh, i wonder if it'll stop whinging about my firewall
21:57:07 <stillunknown> Why would you support non-free software?
21:57:48 <Smoovious> what's non-free about it?
21:58:15 <Smoovious> nobody has ever charged a penny for it... (not legitimately anyways)
21:58:24 <glx> the source is not free, but the software is
21:58:49 <stillunknown> Multiple definitions of free exist.
21:59:18 <stillunknown> Usually referred to as "free as in free beer" and "free as in free speech".
22:00:26 <Smoovious> well, speech is also free as in free beer
22:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "the freedom to charge money for it"?
22:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> or quote from a famous geman movie: "free beer is 5DM"
22:02:26 <stillunknown> Let's be more specific, it does not give you the ability to modify the source code under a certain type of license.
22:02:46 <Smoovious> its ludde's code, he can do with it as he pleases...
22:02:57 <Smoovious> it is BTInc's code now
22:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought he sold it
22:03:25 <Smoovious> so i nstead of shaping how T was being developed, like b efore, now we're basically trying to keep t he new devs from doing stupid things
22:03:54 <stillunknown> The problems of closed source software ;-)
22:03:58 <Smoovious> we still have input tho... and we're also the dev/alpha testers like before
22:04:43 <Smoovious> I'm not getting into a debate about open/closed source... your bias is pretty clear already... but neither is better thhan t he other... they each have their own unique strengths and weaknesses... and that's as far as I'm going to get drawn into it
22:04:54 <hylje> wait, ludde was behind microtorrent?
22:05:16 <Smoovious> yes... Torrent was 100% written by ludde
22:05:30 <Smoovious> (well, unless you wanna count the 1 line I contributed :P )
22:05:37 <UnderBuilder> @seen jasperthecat1
22:05:37 <DorpsGek> UnderBuilder: jasperthecat1 was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Jasperthecat1> (I'm underbuilder :P)
22:05:51 <Smoovious> in fact, talking to ludde, was how I found out about openttd
22:08:36 <stillunknown> Is this the reason ludde stopped developing for openttd?
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22:09:12 <Smoovious> he just got tired and wanted something d ifferent after a while... same thting with him selling T
22:09:29 <Smoovious> vurlix was with him early on tho (I think it was vurlix... haven't seen him in ages)
22:09:44 <hylje> so hes developing killer app after killer app..
22:09:52 <stillunknown> Except that he apparently promised to open source it once he got tired of utorrent.
22:10:01 <stillunknown> Or something like that.
22:10:11 <Smoovious> what he's doing now is joining with a group working on a music service
22:10:19 <Smoovious> it wasn't a promise...
22:10:28 <Smoovious> it was only a possibility
22:11:04 <Smoovious> we were looking forward to it, but can't fault him for selling it instead... he needed income... and disability assistance only goes so far
22:13:53 <stillunknown> At least he did the right thing for openttd.
22:14:00 <stillunknown> Which i'm glad off.
22:14:12 <Smoovious> well, openttd was i ntended to be open source from t he start
22:14:46 <Smoovious> T, on thhe other hand, had different goals... like keeping th he code tighht and compact... old school techniques...
22:14:58 <Smoovious> he d idn't intend to sell it when hee started
22:15:19 <Smoovious> the offer just came at the right time when he was looking to move on to something else
22:16:16 <stillunknown> It remains to be seen what happens now.
22:16:45 <Sacro> i thought it was orudge who released the source after ludde had left
22:16:52 <Smoovious> don't blame him either... all of the virtiol from the piracy crowd who thought mistakenly that he owed them something... what a bunch of jerks...
22:17:27 <Smoovious> I don't know about that, Sacro...
22:18:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10440 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp): -Fix: CBM_IND defines bits to be set, not bitsets.
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22:22:16 <stillunknown> rubidium: That commit doesn't compile.
22:22:24 *** Apocalipsys has left #openttd
22:22:44 <stillunknown> rubidium: I think the if statement with nothing else is not interpreted correctly.
22:24:07 <stillunknown> economy.cpp line 1243 btw
22:25:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10441 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix (r10440): something went wrong "porting" fixes from one place to another; like compiling the wrong checkout.
22:25:49 * Sacro reads the source for OpenTTD 0.1
22:26:12 <stillunknown> Sacro: Must be very scary.
22:27:17 <Smoovious> should try and compile the earliest version off of svn one of these d ays for the hell of it
22:27:34 <Sacro> well i think this is pre r1
22:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ther are versions before r1
22:27:58 <Smoovious> naw, I don't need to go back that far
22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: version != revisions
22:28:06 <Smoovious> the earliest one on svn is plenty
22:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> !openttd commit 1
22:28:54 <_42_> Commit by truelight :: r1 /trunk/ (200 files in 10 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
22:28:56 <_42_> Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
22:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i am too grateful :)
22:29:30 <Sacro> well this is 2004-05-06
22:29:33 <stillunknown> Sacro: easier how?
22:29:46 <Sacro> stillunknown: i can't follow the trunk code, it hurts my head
22:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> stillunknown: current trunk is much more complex
22:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ever tried to read through YAPF code?
22:33:14 <stillunknown> I admit YAPF is complex, too complex for most (including me).
22:33:35 <stillunknown> But the rest seems doable, except gui code which is strange imo.
22:34:15 <stillunknown> Although i do get tendencies to rewrite parts i don't understand.
22:35:08 <stillunknown> I must admit i've only seriously dealt with the vehicle movement code.
22:36:51 <stillunknown> Sacro: The newgrf code is a bit strange to me as well, but that's because i don't know newgrf.
22:36:57 <Sacro> actually, i can follow that
22:37:39 <stillunknown> What are your problem areas? (just curious)
22:40:25 <Sacro> stillunknown: was trying to dissect the signal code
22:40:54 <stillunknown> I admit not having gone trough that.
22:42:15 <orudge> Sacro: I have the code for various pre-OpenTTD versions :P
22:42:20 <orudge> ie, before it was public
22:42:24 <orudge> the earliest code released to the public was 0.1
22:42:26 <Sacro> orudge: well release them :p
22:42:34 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:42:45 <orudge> For a start, it wasn't licenced under the GPL until 0.1
22:43:06 <orudge> and I'd want to seek Ludde's permission to do so. So I shall keep it for myself until then. :p
22:46:00 <orudge> As for how OpenTTD came to be released
22:46:19 <orudge> Ludde spoke to me sometime over a year before OpenTTD was made public, and told me about the project
22:46:24 <orudge> it was fairly complete back then
22:46:32 <orudge> but he worked on it slowly over the rest of the year
22:46:42 <orudge> he didn't want to release it for legal reasons
22:46:56 <orudge> but due to nobody being able to get in touch with Atari, and their apparent disregard for TTD
22:47:03 <orudge> he decided that maybe it'd be possible
22:47:30 <orudge> then Ludde came back when he saw how popular it was
22:47:44 <orudge> and coordinated the next few releases
22:48:29 <Smoovious> btw... is there still no word from them? (Atari) I know someone had spoken to someone there a couple months ago... .. .
22:49:04 <Sacro> "...Melbourne City Council last night decided against resuming its former policy of paying private investigators to have sex in illegal brothels..."
22:49:06 <orudge> Various people have tried
22:49:14 <orudge> nobody's got anything back yet
22:49:23 <stillunknown> What makes me wonder is why ludde didn't structure openttd more from the beginning, like putting all the map accessor's in header files.
22:49:48 <Smoovious> Sacro... gotta hate politicians... they think they're they only ones allowed to nookie on the state's tab
22:50:14 <Sacro> i wonder if i can get it on the nhs...
22:50:21 <Smoovious> maybe he wasn't looking at things that way early on...
22:50:54 <Smoovious> I know my code for myself is sloppy as hell... nothing I'd want anyone else to see... but code I know others will deal with i s a lot neater
22:52:05 <stillunknown> I have trouble reading bad code(poor indenting for example), so i tend to make reasonably code.
22:53:24 <Smoovious> I just use maybe only a quarter to a third as many lines :)
22:54:04 <Smoovious> and all in the same file
22:55:02 <stillunknown> I have never done a project (except an overgrown script) from scratch.
22:55:08 <Smoovious> in no particular order... new stuff, goes at the bottom
22:55:43 <stillunknown> Except a few algorithms i had to write as "school" assignment.
22:55:48 <Smoovious> it runs... but it isn't pretty... and not user-friendly either
22:56:04 <Smoovious> hate doing UI's... tend to just make commands instead
22:56:44 <stillunknown> I dislike UI code too.
22:58:21 <Smoovious> if I can do something by hitting 2 or 3 keys, works for me
22:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i like point-and-click kind of UI development
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22:59:55 <stillunknown> My first programming language was C, delphi doesn't make much sense on a gnu/linux system.
23:01:23 <stillunknown> I started about 2 years ago, i had the desire to make a small fix, which ended being a modified printf statement.
23:01:34 <stillunknown> Didn't make much sense back then.
23:03:05 <Sacro> caladan: start at the bottom and work up :p
23:03:10 <caladan> asm was my third language
23:03:39 <caladan> people start woth pascal or C, not with asm :D
23:03:53 *** lolman is now known as Guest442
23:03:53 *** lolman_ is now known as lolman
23:04:02 <Sacro> then i taught myself C, PHP
23:04:07 <orudge> caladan: people start with BASIC!
23:04:20 * orudge started with Locomotive BASIC 2, on his AMSTRAD 1640
23:04:26 <orudge> and MS-DOS batch files
23:04:36 <orudge> moved onto QBASIC when I got a 386 with MS-DOS 6.2
23:04:50 <orudge> and it went on from there.
23:05:54 <caladan> kk, i thought *.bat dont count :D
23:06:11 <caladan> do you remember clipper?
23:06:13 <orudge> when they're the most advanced things you know at the time, sure they do ;)
23:06:18 <caladan> that was awesome language :D
23:06:25 <orudge> also, some batch files can be fairly complex :p
23:06:47 <caladan> i remember, when i was in primary school, someone was deleting my directory over and over again :D
23:06:57 <caladan> then i added some lines to autoexec.bat :D
23:07:18 <caladan> if not exists my_dir deltree /Y C:/Windows :D
23:08:35 <orudge> In my day, we didn't have DELTREE
23:08:40 <orudge> hidden files were hidden, you couldn't see them at all
23:08:48 <Sacro> orudge: you are younger than me, stfu
23:08:48 <orudge> and floppy disks came in the 360KB variety!
23:09:01 * stillunknown only learned coding after my windows phase (actually the phase were i lacked my own computer)
23:09:01 <Sacro> lowest we had in 1989 was 740k
23:09:05 <caladan> attirb -h -s filename
23:09:26 * orudge 's first computer was just about as old as (if not a bit older than) himself
23:09:41 <peter1138> 23:47 < stillunknown> What makes me wonder is why ludde didn't structure openttd more from the beginning, like putting all the map accessor's in header files.
23:09:44 <caladan> i remember as i hid my directiries
23:09:50 <peter1138> errr cos it didn't *have* map accessors...
23:09:51 <caladan> like alt+225 or something like that
23:10:14 <orudge> caladan: you couldn't do that in MS-DOS 3.2 :p
23:10:21 <orudge> You could set the archive and read-only attributes
23:10:27 <caladan> sorry, i dont remember that old dos :D
23:10:28 <orudge> hidden and system files were truly hidden :p
23:10:30 <Frostregen> oh, batchfiles... anyone want to help? i never could code something: delete all occurences of a given directory name, including all files within them, recursively down a directory tree
23:10:36 <orudge> I guess you could get at them programmatically
23:10:58 <orudge> Frostregen: hmm, some sort of FOR command in a recursive batch file
23:11:32 <Frostregen> hmm, recursively...i gave the answer myself =)
23:12:20 <stillunknown> peter1138: Then i meant to ask, why he didn't make them.
23:13:57 <orudge> he was working from a decompilation of TTD, basically
23:14:04 <orudge> so certainly, the code wasn't a literal translation
23:14:10 <orudge> but it probably wasn't all that much abstracted
23:14:39 <caladan> hmmm, what was used to disasseble TTD?
23:15:09 <orudge> the original versions of OpenTTD had a pile of IDA scripts
23:15:24 <orudge> I imagine Marcin's database helped a lot, too
23:16:13 <caladan> IDA is a great tool, used it maaaany times... but mostly not on x86
23:16:43 <orudge> Marcin Gryzsomethingorother
23:16:44 <stillunknown> Ludde must have had some desire for code aesthetics, or is that just my flaw for wanting pretty code.
23:17:43 <caladan> kk, wondered about his name
23:18:48 <orudge> I just can't quite remember how to spell it :p
23:20:15 <caladan> oh, i imagine, it could be a lot worse :D
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23:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <caladan> do you remember clipper? <- that was my father's favourite language :)
23:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i never have seen him program in any other language
23:45:56 <_42_> Phazorx, Maedhros (~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net) was last seen quitting #openttd.notice 36 minutes ago (04.07. 23:08) stating "Quit: good night" after spending 16 hours 57 minutes there.
23:46:15 <Phazorx> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10433 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: << is not fixed still
23:51:00 <Phazorx> hmm... actualy NM i think it is grf issue now
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