IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-25
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02:07:09 <Phazorx> how can i get gdb'ed version to work with network under windows?
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04:02:23 <mikk36> after downloading the 1341KB map, openttd just crashes
04:03:01 <Jerub> that's the kind of bug we all just love.
04:03:07 <mikk36> and there are players inside playing
04:03:20 <mikk36> the connection is 2Mbps, so not the slowest
04:03:39 <mikk36> ping to the server is ~10ms
04:04:30 <mikk36> pause on join is enabled as default
04:06:45 <mikk36> i will try again from my workplace, but will not place any hopes
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04:39:41 <Rubidium> mikk36: there should be a network_client.tmp or something similar in your save/autosave directory
04:40:11 <Rubidium> that might be used to reproduce your crash
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10315 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-25 06:40:44
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 5 fixed by WhiteRabbit (5)
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 11 fixed by t2t2 (11)
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 fixed, 2 changed by miham (8)
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
04:41:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 5 fixed by ickoonite (5)
04:52:04 <Phazorx> how can i get gdb'ed version to work with network under windows?
04:53:46 <Rubidium> no idea, it "just works" under linux
04:55:04 <Phazorx> Rubidium: any release i tried compiling with debug crashes on nay network related
04:55:55 <Rubidium> sounds like a broken gdb or gcc creating broken debug binaries to me
04:57:12 <Phazorx> and i have rpetty much most recent vanila mingw/msys
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04:57:43 <Phazorx> hmm... i should try to compile soemtihng esle simple and see if that crashes to
04:59:05 <Phazorx> is there something simiar to netcat, udp based
04:59:27 <Phazorx> which i can use as a test case
05:00:22 <Rubidium> a well, it's not OTTD's fault in general, maybe something todo with Windows and OTTD
05:00:39 <Rubidium> as it works for me when joining a server
05:00:48 <Phazorx> that's can be proven if a testcase fails as well
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06:26:13 <mikk36> there is NO save folder :/
06:26:39 <mikk36> although, autosave was on
06:26:57 <mikk36> for some reason, i don't see my conf either
06:27:16 <peter1138> or My Documents\OpenTTD heh
06:27:18 <mikk36> D:\Games\OpenTTD-r10295
06:27:56 <mikk36> and you want that tmp file ?
06:29:26 <mikk36> uploading to my server
06:33:46 <peter1138> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
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06:37:10 <peter1138> i'll leave this one to rubidium
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06:56:04 <Ailure> if we could have a donut-shaped world
06:56:05 <Phazorx> where is smooth economy behavior in cide?
06:56:48 <Phazorx> Ailure: i ithnk plane will do
06:57:29 <Ailure> I think it would make some big maps more intresting
06:57:43 <Ailure> you can have a railway line going around the earth
06:58:18 <Ailure> in TT, I get the illusion of being stuck on a island
06:58:22 <Ailure> isolated rest from the world
06:58:28 <Ailure> instead of it being it's own world
06:59:12 <hylje> Star Trek: the Animation. One season of lol, wut? ...IN SPACE!
06:59:16 <Phazorx> so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ?
07:00:07 <hylje> i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world
07:00:23 <hylje> not quite a round world but expanding over time
07:01:02 <Phazorx> where's the damn smooth economy?
07:01:37 <hylje> grep economy openttd.cfg
07:02:51 <Phazorx> i need the code not patch
07:33:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10316 /trunk/src/ (group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt strings.cpp): -Codechange: (consistently) use index to refer to group names. Also the group string_id is irrelevant unless it is a custom name, so don't 'waste' a savegame string id.
07:50:48 <mikk36> and the guys are still in and playing the game :P
07:51:13 <mikk36> world size has rose from 1300KB at 07:30am to 1900KB 10:50am :P
07:53:49 <Ailure> [08:56] <Phazorx> so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ?
07:54:15 <Ailure> although that's probably what makes it tricky to implement :p
07:54:55 <Ailure> the map would loop in all directions or something
07:55:09 <Ailure> although that can get a bit confusing :p
07:58:01 <Phazorx> isnt that what i just said?
07:59:28 <Ailure> [08:57] <hylje> i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world
08:00:06 <Ailure> I played with the idea of servers connecting to each and could send trains to each other
08:00:22 <hylje> net junctions in many senses
08:00:40 <Ailure> that would be potentiionally intresting
08:00:44 <Ailure> but also have it's problems :p
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08:02:04 <Ailure> what should the game do when a server goes down
08:02:21 <peter1138> disconnect, oddly enough
08:02:21 <Ailure> send the trains into a void?
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08:13:30 <hylje> and if the redundant world parts still go down
08:13:39 <hylje> it enters that void and is restored later
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08:24:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10317 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#786]: acceleration not calculated properly when a train goes up a hill between tunnels.
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08:39:53 <hylje> lol, wut? .. ON RAILS!!
08:42:05 <Ailure> the train dosen't slow down, when it should be
08:50:04 <Smoky555> hi ! How i can place different signal type on one tile? Is it possible?
08:50:59 <Rubidium> Smoky555: use a (fairly) recent nightly
08:51:44 <Smoky555> Rubidium : but in last SVN?
08:52:38 <Ailure> it's actually possible now?
08:57:34 <Ailure> most of the time, it was more of a cosmetically annoyance than gameplay :p
09:03:24 <dihedral> Rubidium: remember the smooth_economy patch i mentioned yesterday?
09:03:53 <dihedral> apparently it does not work for producing industries doing 24-30 T
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09:06:13 <Rubidium> I don't remember that
09:16:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10318 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
09:16:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-25 11:14:04
09:16:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 7 fixed by thetitan (7)
09:16:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed, 2 changed by arnaullv (4)
09:16:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 15 fixed, 5 changed by ThomasA (20)
09:16:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 fixed, 39 changed by Zr40 (45), webfreakz (2)
09:16:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 2 fixed, 2 changed by t2t2 (4)
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09:30:00 <Rubidium> mikk36: that savegame of yours is basically broken by a bug in trunk; trunk can store "only" 65535 references to cargopackets and you've got like 90000 cargopackets in the savegame, which means it wraps around at 65536 and that makes it use other packets which makes lots of things go haywire.
09:30:22 <Rubidium> What I can do is remove *all* cargopackets from the game so you can continue it, or you have to use an older savegame
09:30:37 <mikk36> the guys are still in and playing it
09:30:41 <Rubidium> anyhow, a fix will be coming
09:30:44 <mikk36> as long as they don't drop out, they're fine
09:30:55 <mikk36> although the cpu usage is high as hell
09:31:38 <mikk36> 1.6Ghz removing all cargopackets just removes all waiting cargo and cargo on the move ?
09:31:39 <Rubidium> mikk36: that's because there is a custom made leak checker for cargo packets running every tick
09:32:14 <mikk36> 1.6Ghz was about the cpu running it
09:32:16 <Rubidium> but that will be removed in a while
09:34:46 <Rubidium> what's the problem with that?
09:36:40 <peter1138> it's a random revision number :D
09:37:03 <Rubidium> peter1138: well, it did fix smooth economy with low productions
09:37:18 <dihedral> do productions at 24/30 T
09:37:40 <dihedral> so basically below 32
09:38:00 <dihedral> peter1138: and why would i post a random revision number?
09:38:06 <peter1138> "do productions at 24/30 T" does not parse
09:38:09 <dihedral> just for the sake of not making any sense
09:38:30 <peter1138> dihedral: well, ok, 30 minutes ago it would've made sense ;)
09:39:27 <dihedral> just thought i'd pass it on :-)
09:39:52 <dihedral> personally i ignore industies that are that low
09:40:04 <dihedral> but it's a shame if they dont recover
09:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> *mental note* simultaneously doing video encoding and playing openttd will not work...
09:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> i feel like i am back on my 386 ;)
09:56:44 <peter1138> dual core cpu required
09:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but i am fresh out of those :p
09:58:47 <dihedral> na - just a second computer and a kvm
09:58:50 <eekee> play agame with a tiny map. I was doing that yesterday while compiling, iirc
09:59:04 <dihedral> 64x64 is amazingly funny
09:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> and by my luck, the video encoding software is multithreaded, to fill out all cores ;)
09:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> i actually tried to play on my daylength x32 game...
10:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> i believe it's 1024x1024
10:00:08 <dihedral> renice -20 -p `pidof openttd`
10:00:10 <peter1138> 128x128 gives you a nice tricky game
10:00:25 <peter1138> enough to link up but you can't run long lines for mega-profi
10:00:51 <dihedral> 64x64 map: and try not to get the local auth pissed :-P
10:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't really care about profit...
10:01:08 <peter1138> and you have to be frugal with the amount of vehicles else you get constant lockups
10:01:12 <eekee> I'm playing 1 such game with freight um.. weight multiplication up at 15
10:02:05 <eekee> hilly too, it's interesting. Not too hard, maybe I shoul try it with the UKRS lol
10:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm running dual BR 38 with 30 ore wagons
10:02:40 <eekee> got another such game with tons of coal on a loop rail around the town
10:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, and i do daily autosave :p
10:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, yes, with x32 daylength, that is one original month :p
10:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> keeping it monthly wasn't exactly often :p
10:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> this is so funny, if i unpause the game, it runs smoothly for a few seconds, and then it slows down again :)
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10:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> could it be that the trams have a wrong offset?
10:13:34 <Rubidium> ofcourse it could be
10:14:23 <Rubidium> but most likely a problem with the newgrf
10:14:42 <Rubidium> let me guess, the "Hiro tram" looks wrong?
10:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know what tram it is... i only see the picture above
10:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the tram looks like it is going next to the rails, not on the rails
10:17:09 <eekee> Oh, the trams in that are all Serbian, All the passenger ones are the "Be" type, the frieght trams are the "Be" cloned into a new grk & made refittable
10:17:26 <Rubidium> then it's most likely the hiro tram
10:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> if i had to guess, the offset was "optimised" for right traffic side, and it looks odd with left (or "wrong" :p) traffic side
10:17:57 <Rubidium> that tram's first part's sprite is 7/8th of a normal tram, but the newgrf doesn't say so
10:18:00 <peter1138> eekee: ah, yes, i've not played a small game since the new bridges...
10:18:29 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: no, the offset is just wrong
10:18:41 <peter1138> uk tram set will have correct offsets :D
10:19:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10319 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r10266): the limit of 65535 references was not enough for cargo packets. Increase this limit to approximately 2^32, which noone should ever be able to reach on any normal system ;)
10:19:42 * peter1138 kicks CIA-1 for being so slow
10:19:45 <eekee> peter1138: they are convenient, but I think that layout would work with the old bridges
10:23:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10320 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_cmd.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix [FS#278]: one could only build a limited number of stations before one had to rename them.
10:23:44 <eekee> oh there would be a bit of trouble down by the oil refinery. Very slow trains under that bridge, & there used to be a slow oil train sharing the same tracks, I would have had some trouble there
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10:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i am not starting a new game until PBS is implemented :p
10:27:06 <eekee> I used timetabling a bit on a recent game. Was confusing, but I think it helped
10:27:07 <dihedral> does setting the day length influence the speed of vehicles?
10:27:14 <Gekkko`> how does time tables work?
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10:29:12 <eekee> Gekkko`: with cogs & steam clocks, for all I understand it
10:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: no, it just changes the amount of ticks until the day ends
10:29:37 <mikegrb> all the guys put their watch on a table and then one by one the girls pick up a random watch... oh wait that is something else
10:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> along with some controversial "fixes" what should be calculated per tick and what should be calculated per day
10:31:29 <mikegrb> elmex's client has comitment issues
10:33:03 <Gekkko`> eekee: I mean, on OTTD what does it prove
10:33:34 * eekee gives a big shrug, saying "I'unno!"
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10:41:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10321 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refer to sign text by index
10:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> what is all that indexing about?
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10:42:18 <peter1138> it's leading up to replacing the custom name array
10:42:35 <peter1138> == not limited to 32 chars each and not limited to 512 names
10:43:14 <hylje> quest to custom name array!
10:43:57 <peter1138> which is good for furriners (multibyte unicode sequences) and large games/scenarios
10:44:33 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
10:45:03 <peter1138> it's a little bit more useful than my opengl blitter ;)
10:49:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10322 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the timetable window smaller by default so it doesn't take up so much space on small resolutions.
10:50:18 <dihedral> just out of curiosity
10:50:34 <dihedral> why is the svn repository not served over dav_svn? and apache?
10:51:25 <eekee> I think that's a bit of a pain to set up
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10:52:00 <ln-> Maedhros: if you made it narrower, how will that affect on (translated) texts fitting in the buttons?
10:52:06 <Smoky555> grrrr... WT2 make big boom on {SIGN} phrase ... and big error ... :\
10:52:12 <dihedral> i would probably have to ask TrueBrain?
10:53:46 <peter1138> but we'll have to wait for MiHaMiX to fix it
10:54:12 <Rubidium> and MiHaMiX will be away for the day
10:54:19 <Smoky555> peter1138 : i can't translate this phrases into russian :( yes, i know about MiHaMiX
10:54:24 <Maedhros> ln-: i didn't. i just reduced the height of it
10:54:54 <peter1138> ln-: but if he did, over long strings will fall out...
10:55:38 <peter1138> clearly we need the magic cpp_gui to fix it ;)
11:01:01 <eekee> nuuuuuh! Can't build heliports
11:01:27 <eekee> local authority refuses another airport...
11:01:39 <peter1138> only 2 airports allowed per town
11:01:59 <eekee> but they're heliports, it's ridiculous that they be limited in the same way
11:02:26 <peter1138> there's "noise level" patch that works quite nicely iirc
11:02:56 <peter1138> each airport has a noise value and you can have up a certain limit per town
11:03:04 <peter1138> so that's 2 large airports or 4 small, or somesuch
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11:03:14 <dihedral> could someone do me a favour and join to a game , create a company and set a pass?
11:03:21 <eekee> how would I get hold of it?
11:04:13 <peter1138> but it's out there somewhere
11:04:54 <eekee> incidentally, can you reshape airports in grf? I'm thinking of autogyros with their short runways...
11:05:45 <dihedral> eekee: would you like to give me a helping hand?
11:06:21 <dihedral> whats the latest revision of trunk you have compiled?
11:07:38 <dihedral> openttd.dihedral.de:27030
11:08:05 <Vikthor> eekee: It is from begining of December, so if you are able to sync it...
11:08:17 <dihedral> i dont mind up/down grading
11:08:27 <dihedral> as long as its after 10306
11:08:38 <eekee> funnily enough I just synced a patch for Source Mage last night. That was a 1-liner though :d
11:08:55 <Maedhros> r10306 happened long after november :p
11:09:25 <dihedral> let me know which revision
11:09:35 <dihedral> just in case you are getting latest trunk/
11:09:42 <Maedhros> that patch should be pretty easy to sync though, looking at it
11:10:39 <dihedral> i would like to do the thing 2 times, once starting the server pw protected, and once not
11:10:52 <dihedral> althouth it should not make a diff at all!!
11:11:17 <eekee> what company does your thingy join as?
11:11:22 * dihedral is tired and might be blabbling rubbish
11:11:52 <dihedral> just like your client shows stats on games
11:13:21 <dihedral> if i joined as a company or spectator i would have to probably download the map??
11:14:02 <dihedral> or could i just send a MAP_OK packet :-P
11:14:51 * dihedral wonders how far eekee is with compiling r10318
11:16:13 <eekee> ok loaded up, what was the server?
11:16:39 <dihedral> openttd.dihedral.de:27030
11:17:03 <dihedral> before you ask: "test"
11:18:58 <eekee> stuck at "preparing to join"
11:19:13 <dihedral> it already closed your connection...
11:20:54 <eekee> whoa, what happened to 2nd company color?
11:22:24 <dihedral> autopurge_protected = true
11:22:38 <dihedral> does it in the mean time mean
11:22:49 <dihedral> protected companies are not made unprotected/purged
11:23:52 <dihedral> Brianetta: was hoping to see you around :-)
11:23:52 <Brianetta> If you have any form of auto-purge on, all companies will be purged in 254 months or less.
11:24:20 <dihedral> but autopilot can do that right?
11:24:20 <Brianetta> Why were you hoping to see me?
11:24:28 <Brianetta> autopilot can't do anything time based
11:24:36 <Brianetta> unless you want it real time
11:24:45 <Brianetta> as in, by the clock, not by the game date
11:25:11 <dihedral> well - check every 5 mins if companies are unprotected
11:25:21 <dihedral> warn if a player is in that company with a say command
11:25:33 <dihedral> remember which player has received how many warnings
11:25:39 <Brianetta> It oculd be done, if I put the UDP code into autopilot
11:25:43 <dihedral> after 3 warnings kick
11:26:00 <dihedral> i dont like unprotected companies !
11:26:26 <dihedral> Brianetta: you would not need the udp code
11:26:38 <Brianetta> Well, you can put that code into autopilot yourself. It's free software, after all.
11:26:53 <Brianetta> dihedral: How else would you suggest I determine whether a company is passworded?
11:27:07 <dihedral> last word = (un)protected
11:27:41 <peter1138> and the "date" command
11:27:43 <Brianetta> No wonder autopilot keeps screwing up on that release
11:27:52 <dihedral> you added the date command?
11:28:03 <Brianetta> ERROR: command or variable not found
11:28:03 <Brianetta> Apparently not in 0.5
11:28:18 <dihedral> well - is in the forums :-D
11:28:23 <dihedral> i always had to add it myself
11:28:38 <peter1138> stupid date format :o
11:28:53 <Brianetta> dihedral: The dedicated server console is badly documented, mostly ignored and lacking many important features. autopilot is always playing catchup, which is made harder when trying to maintain backward compatibility.
11:29:30 <Brianetta> ERROR: command or variable not found
11:29:59 <peter1138> once i get my time machine working...
11:31:30 <dihedral> Brianetta: there are chat commands for irc to autopilot right?
11:31:47 <dihedral> are there chat commands for ingame to autopilot?
11:32:13 <dihedral> should it work with !fish?
11:32:22 <stillunknown> Why do cities refuse food when they reach a certain size?
11:33:50 <eekee> stillunknown: food's place is taken by goods in building accepts
11:34:06 <dihedral> are the say commands then hardcoded for ingame to autopilot?
11:34:16 <eekee> put a station in the suburbs & it'sll take food
11:35:10 * dihedral things Brianetta aint very talkative :-)
11:35:30 <Brianetta> I'm a bit frustrated with autopilot
11:35:42 <Brianetta> Servers running in autopilot tend to quit
11:35:53 <Brianetta> where servers not running in autopilot do not
11:35:56 <Brianetta> and I have no idea why
11:36:27 <Brianetta> All I know is that autopilot receives an EOF from openttd, and the process exits.
11:37:11 <Brianetta> It resists all attempts to debug
11:37:19 <Brianetta> especially as it's relatively rare
11:37:28 <Brianetta> but if my Standard Server isn't running, it's because that happened.
11:37:43 <dihedral> is it when autopilot restarts the game or when te game restarts itself?
11:38:08 <Brianetta> autopilot doesn't restart games
11:38:21 <Brianetta> and my server doesn't restart itself
11:38:26 <Rubidium> Brianetta: what commands are you really missing?
11:38:27 <Brianetta> admin intervention, every time
11:39:40 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Information. Most of the stuff that's available through the UDP protocol would be nice, although backwards compatibility will make it harder to capitalise on new things appearing.
11:40:13 <Brianetta> autopilot supports 0.4.8, but the companies command in IRC just blanks out
11:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> what about doing an autopilot snapshot for each version, and screw backwards compatibility?
11:40:36 <Brianetta> so none of the internal code depends on it
11:40:56 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause3: People miss the new features.
11:40:57 * dihedral likes Eddi|zuHause3's idea
11:41:17 <dihedral> but one cannot have trunk/ features in an 0.4 game
11:41:28 <Brianetta> I don't specifically support trunk
11:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean, provide a 0.4(.8) version, but stop developing it
11:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> and do a 0.5 version that is backwards compatible only for 0.5.x servers
11:42:00 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause3: Nobody would use it, unless I fixed bugs
11:42:06 <Brianetta> and I do often have bgs to fix
11:42:27 <Brianetta> I'd rather have one base of code to maintain on teh bugs front
11:42:58 <Brianetta> as modular as can be
11:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, then i can't help you any further :)
11:43:16 <dihedral> i mean in a way that the !companies command
11:43:24 <dihedral> has a plugin for 0.4.8
11:43:24 <Brianetta> unfortunately, the event loop is handled by Expect
11:43:47 <Brianetta> dihedral: Should I assume that the user will put the correct version in?
11:44:10 <dihedral> just needs to be documented
11:44:22 <Brianetta> Have you read the documentation?
11:44:23 <dihedral> or autoload plugins depending on the version configured
11:44:59 <Brianetta> Well done. You, DaleStan and me are the only ones I know of.
11:45:01 <Maedhros> Brianetta: what would need to be changed before timetables became useful to you?
11:45:32 <Brianetta> Maedhros: Interesting question. There needs to be some way of anchoring the timetable.
11:45:43 <Brianetta> That is, the timetable needs an external point of reference.
11:46:14 <dihedral> Brianetta: i would love to see the console of ottd become more powerfull!
11:46:27 <Maedhros> would being able to set the date that the timetable should start for each vehicle help?
11:46:31 <Brianetta> Maedhros: I have an idea
11:47:05 <Brianetta> Put a command in a timetable which, when the train reaches it, sends a "signal"
11:47:12 <dihedral> Maedhros: it would be great if the timetables showed the average time taken on the last round
11:47:17 <Brianetta> The player can put this into one timetable
11:47:31 <Rubidium> Brianetta: quite a lot of information is passed via the UDP packets
11:47:48 <Brianetta> Then make other vehicles' timetables "depend" on this signal by making them wait until that signal is sent
11:48:00 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I am very aware
11:48:01 <Rubidium> and just dumping exactly what those UDP packets sent is probably not "the right thing"
11:48:09 * dihedral is liking Brianetta's idea
11:48:19 <Maedhros> Brianetta: hmm, challenging :)
11:48:23 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I have the UDP code written in Tcl, and I intend to embed it in autopilot at some point
11:48:55 <Rubidium> but as I don't have any experience with running (especially managing) a server, I wouldn't know what useful commands would be
11:49:00 <Brianetta> Maedhros: So, ebd result is that you can start a train, but it won't move (or increment its late counter) until the master train reaches a certain point on its journey
11:49:32 <dihedral> Rubidium: anything that gives power to admins :-)
11:49:35 <Brianetta> Rubidium: To make it useful, you have to treat it as a screen reader (:
11:50:00 <Brianetta> Being able to list signs and their locations would be excellent
11:50:18 <Brianetta> Being able to list stations, vehicles, towns
11:50:44 <Brianetta> Of course, interpreting the output with autopilot is a separate challenge (:
11:51:12 <dihedral> make it human readable
11:51:27 <Brianetta> dihedral: It always will be
11:51:28 <Rubidium> yeah, but dumping all signs or *all* vehicles
11:51:35 <Brianetta> Rubidium: With filters
11:51:51 <Brianetta> Signs are coloured by company (or world)
11:52:16 <Brianetta> Also, the admin can't ask the server directly what the landscape is, what newgrfs are running, etc
11:52:38 <dihedral> being able to send a raw message would be nice too
11:52:51 <dihedral> ie. excluding the [All] Console:
11:52:54 <Brianetta> dihedral: That doesn't make an awful lot of sense...
11:53:08 <Brianetta> Oh, like a global echo
11:53:22 <dihedral> when people from IRC chat to autopilot
11:53:32 <Brianetta> autopilot chats back, yes
11:53:43 <dihedral> autopilot can do a message "[All] autopilot:" out of it
11:53:45 <Brianetta> Bridging two chat protocols using a wrapper is always like that
11:54:04 <dihedral> then sending a raw message is usefull
11:54:08 <Brianetta> There's a bridge between FreeNode's #Tcl and a Jabber chat channel
11:54:27 <Brianetta> and everybody just has to get used to seeing the bridge's nickname at the start of each line
11:54:51 <Brianetta> Anyway, autopilot's IRC module is completely optional
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11:54:55 <dihedral> does not mean it has to be the same for ottd
11:55:18 <Brianetta> We should be suggesting things which are useful to admins, not to me as a script dev
11:55:28 <dihedral> welcome messages, add a reason message for kicking
11:56:04 <Brianetta> autopilot was written to *overcome* shortcomings in the dedicated server, not to demand enhancements
11:56:15 <dihedral> Brianetta: autopilot is a sort of admin
11:56:22 <dihedral> it's an admins helper :-P
11:56:37 <Brianetta> TO begin, it was only there to greet players and to pause the game
11:56:46 <Brianetta> Those tasks are no longer necessary
11:56:59 <dihedral> but there are other tasks that it can do
11:57:19 <Brianetta> It was also used to backport fixes
11:57:30 <dihedral> like having it handle a map list and load the next scenario to the next game
11:57:35 <Brianetta> For example, you can set net_frame_freq in openttd.cfg for 0.4.8 with autopilot
11:57:43 <Brianetta> it parses the config and sets the variable
11:57:50 <Brianetta> openttd does that itself now
11:58:17 <Brianetta> dihedral: autopilot would need a radical overhaul to be able to reset itself for a new game
11:58:17 <dihedral> the same way ottd grows autopilot can have new administrative features
11:58:24 <Brianetta> CUrrently, you exit it and start a new one
11:58:34 <dihedral> would autopilot have to restar itself?
11:58:47 <Brianetta> It'd have to reset a whole load of internal state
11:58:57 <Brianetta> and be wrapped in some sort of loop
11:59:22 <dihedral> the trigger could be an echo in scripts/on_dedicated.scr
11:59:34 <Brianetta> It'd also have to be able to archive off the current saved game, so that it wasn't overwritten
12:00:07 <stillunknown> Brianetta: Who still uses 0.4.x?
12:00:16 <dihedral> Brianetta: if i put an echo "next scenario" in scripts/on_dedicated.scr
12:00:35 <dihedral> and the game reaches the end game date
12:00:41 <dihedral> and starts a newgame
12:00:51 <dihedral> it would output next scenario on the console
12:01:07 <Brianetta> dihedral: Can you code in Tcl?
12:01:10 <dihedral> when that happens autopilot could run load blah.scn
12:01:21 <dihedral> Brianetta: unfor not yet
12:01:39 <Brianetta> Learn it, and you can have SVN access
12:01:59 <dihedral> autopilot is your baby :-P
12:02:07 <dihedral> emphasis on your :-D
12:02:28 <Brianetta> As its owner and maintainer, I don't *have* to accept all patches supbmitted
12:02:35 <Brianetta> and it'll always be GPL
12:02:37 <stillunknown> Why not put effort into improving openttd?
12:02:57 <dihedral> stillunknown: because openttd does not have to handle everything autopilot does
12:02:59 <Brianetta> stillunknown: Still working on the Tk interface, and trying to suss out why it causes dedicated servers to quietly quit
12:03:01 <dihedral> would not make sense
12:03:22 <dihedral> Brianetta: you know php?
12:03:30 <Brianetta> dihedral: Unfortunately
12:03:50 <dihedral> how about i learn some tcl and help you out and you help me out :-D
12:04:01 <Brianetta> What do you want help with?
12:04:38 <Brianetta> Well, I wrote a UDP parser for OpenTTD, and I have written several PHP applications
12:10:03 * SpComb has a ottd.py that does master-server server listings and server-info
12:10:07 <dihedral> Brianetta: would it be too hard to include?
12:10:40 <Brianetta> It'd markedly increase the requirements
12:10:55 <dihedral> i did not mean the py script
12:11:01 <dihedral> i ment the loading scenarios
12:11:22 <Brianetta> It'd be difficult to include right now
12:11:28 <Brianetta> but anything's possible
12:11:41 <Brianetta> At the moment, autopilot is written with one presumption
12:11:43 <dihedral> if there was a unique something to be retrieved from the games (unique to each round)
12:11:48 <dihedral> then i would do some data mining
12:11:53 <Brianetta> that there's one game, after which everything quits.
12:12:19 <Maedhros> Brianetta: i've been looking at this, and setting a time for a vehicle to start the timetable is a lot easier (to code) than your idea about emitting signals
12:12:22 <Brianetta> The MySQL module uses this assumption most of all
12:12:27 <Rubidium> dihedral: how can we add something "unique" to a game?
12:12:28 <Brianetta> and the startup sequence
12:12:45 <Maedhros> Brianetta: will that be enough to make them useful though, do you think?
12:13:03 <Brianetta> Maedhros: Depends how the time thing works. I'm not aware of a clock in the game, as such
12:13:26 <Maedhros> well, currently you tell it to start the timetable on a specific date
12:13:31 <dihedral> Brianetta: a timestamp of when the current map was started would suffice
12:13:31 <Brianetta> I posted a suggestion somewhere, or wrote here on IRC once...
12:14:08 * Brianetta does a quick search
12:14:20 <dihedral> would be also interesting if games are paused when nobody is playing
12:14:30 <dihedral> and one could show since when the game was running
12:14:59 <Rubidium> dihedral: primarily because you don't know whether something is unique, you can't store the last "id" in openttd.cfg and then you would need to store the id in the savegame too
12:15:04 <Brianetta> Maedhros: My original suggestion involved a clock
12:15:18 <Rubidium> but what if the savegame gets loaded in another server that already has used that "unique" ID for another game
12:15:24 <Brianetta> which could be shown in the corner of the screen
12:15:49 <Brianetta> which ran at one minute per day, or there-abouts
12:16:05 <Brianetta> or five minutes per day, I think I suggested
12:16:08 <dihedral> i dont think you understood me correctly
12:16:09 <Brianetta> It was a long time ago
12:16:22 <Brianetta> but you could timetable a train by time, to the nearest 5 minutes
12:16:36 <Brianetta> and that time would be constant across the game
12:16:42 <dihedral> just the timestamp of when openttd started the map
12:17:00 <Maedhros> Brianetta: well, you can basically do that with days now, as long as you know when the timetable starts, no?
12:17:02 <Brianetta> If a train took more than a timetable-day to reach a destination, then the next time should simply be assumed to be the next instance of that time
12:17:16 <Brianetta> Maedhros: You can. When does the timetable start?
12:17:57 <Brianetta> A clock is easiest, I think. Especially when you're trying to make a slot to insert one train into a route containing several tens of trains.
12:18:14 <Brianetta> Stopping all trains and restarting the timetable isn't practical
12:18:55 <Brianetta> but if that train won't leave before 6:15, then it'll wait there until the clock says 6:15
12:19:10 <Brianetta> and if it's more than 6 hours late, make it wait for the next 6:15
12:19:21 <Rubidium> maybe some button with "spread evenly"?
12:19:29 <Brianetta> no automatic spreading
12:19:37 <Brianetta> timetables are timetables
12:19:46 <Brianetta> not traffic smoothers
12:19:50 <dihedral> a train needs a certain time 'at least' to get from a to be
12:20:01 <Brianetta> dihedral: That's all that's implemented
12:20:14 <dihedral> just remember the last average of all trains in the shared order
12:20:36 <Brianetta> A timetable should allow you to predictably create a traffic gap
12:20:37 <dihedral> so one can at least see am i entereing a reasonable valo or not
12:20:45 <Brianetta> into which a slow vehicle could be inserted, to schedule
12:20:53 <dihedral> yes, but you dont want to underestimate
12:21:07 <dihedral> and that will happen
12:21:20 <Maedhros> Brianetta: the timetable starts when you tell it to - e.g. 1st of June 1954, and is different for each train
12:21:24 <Brianetta> Maedhros: A good start would be to time existing journeys, so that the player can see how long that vehicle too to make the journey last time
12:21:25 <dihedral> + late trains should let your station rating go down :-P
12:21:37 <Maedhros> Brianetta: yeah, i'm going to try to add that as well
12:21:49 <Brianetta> Maedhros: Would you have to recalculate this each time you tweaked the timings?
12:22:13 <Maedhros> recalculate the start date? yes... how else would it work?
12:22:31 <Brianetta> To be honest, I'm not even sure what resetting the late counter does. Does it make the current order's travel time become 0? Does it make the next order start at 0 on arrival?
12:22:53 <Brianetta> Does it remain at 0 until you start the train? It should...
12:23:10 <Maedhros> yes, it makes the next order start at 0 on arrival
12:23:33 <Brianetta> See, that's not very precise
12:23:41 <Brianetta> You can't know when that train will arrive, exactly
12:24:49 <Brianetta> I want to be able to say, "this train leaves at 5:30. This is just before the 4:15 from Sundingham is due to arrive, and the platform will be cleared fo rthat train."
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12:28:40 <Maedhros> Brianetta: hmm, ok. would you be able or willing to test a few patches if i send them your way?
12:28:48 <dihedral> i still want to do some datamining and need some constant data :-D
12:28:55 <Brianetta> Maedhros: This evening.
12:29:00 <Brianetta> It's 1:30pm her enow
12:29:26 <Maedhros> i know. being a student has skewed my sense of when people are around though ;)
12:29:55 <Brianetta> I'm at work now. Much as I probably could do some testing, I'd probably find myself having a quiet word from the boss...
12:31:00 * dihedral wants to go to his bed
12:31:02 <Brianetta> I'm reading about lightweight backpacking tents
12:31:24 <dihedral> doing some php online configuration app of appliances
12:31:32 <Brianetta> Hilleberg Akto or Terra Nova Laser Competition?
12:32:06 <Brianetta> Perhaps just a tarp and a bivi bag?
12:33:00 <dihedral> those things are nice
12:33:50 <Brianetta> We just have Pix and stuff
12:35:55 <dihedral> Brianetta: those things look nasty - cannot even get changed in there decently
12:36:11 <Brianetta> They're not bad, actually
12:36:22 <Brianetta> The Akto is big enough to sleep two if you leave your kit outside
12:36:50 <dihedral> depend on the kitti :-D
12:48:02 <Phazorx> Brianetta: may i suggest something for autopilot?
12:49:30 <Phazorx> a per player counters of their presence within particular game
12:49:45 <Phazorx> based on login/logout times
12:49:47 <Brianetta> You're going to have to clarify that
12:50:34 <Phazorx> well some array key'd on player IDs, keepign track fo how much time they spent playing
12:50:43 <Phazorx> resetting at every game reset
12:51:08 <Phazorx> probably stored in a file, sinced every once in a while
12:52:02 <Brianetta> [13:53] <Phazorx> resetting at every game reset
12:52:06 <Brianetta> There's that word again
12:52:15 <Brianetta> autopilot doesn't do game resets at the moment
12:53:06 <Phazorx> of cource it does not, but it knows when it happens
12:53:17 <Phazorx> so if a new game is started it writes different file
12:54:42 <Brianetta> No, it doesn't know when it happens
12:55:07 <dihedral> OpenTTDLib could do that
12:55:23 <dihedral> you get the join date of a client
12:55:49 <Phazorx> Brianetta: strange, it reports game start saying it is engagad and stating map conditions
12:56:09 <Brianetta> It does that when you start it
12:56:14 <Brianetta> Most of that info is read from openttd.cfg
12:56:40 <Brianetta> If you load a saved game, it says nothing about map conditions
12:56:44 <Brianetta> because it has no way of knowing
12:57:32 <peter1138> until we add the console commands you need
12:57:51 <Phazorx> Brianetta: that can be used as trigger ebtween newmap/reload
12:58:20 <Phazorx> dihedral: i think it would be nice if it implemented in both monitoring tools
12:58:37 <Gekko> i was offended by exit to Unix again
12:59:17 <Gekko> isnt monorail enabled in 1999 on arctic climate?
12:59:20 <Maedhros> Gekko: heh, which os are you really using then?
12:59:35 <dihedral> Phazorx: autopilot and OpenTTDLib get their data through different methods
12:59:56 <peter1138> "Hi, the name's Linux... GNU/Linux..."
13:00:34 <dihedral> if you have the right Desktop environment you can also have a kate along with it
13:01:17 <dihedral> i knew a kate write in sweeden once
13:01:38 <Gekko> isnt monorail enabled in 1999 on arctic climate?
13:02:08 <Phazorx> dihedral / Brianetta: so you guys gonna think about doing it?
13:02:21 <peter1138> it is randomized...
13:02:36 <dihedral> Phazorx: i cannot do any datamining if there aint a constant to referense a single game with
13:02:41 <eekee> There's more KDE software than GNU software on a typical KDE box. Not to deny the fact that the GNU s/w is more essential to a Linux system, but their attempts at insisting on GNU/Linux seems a little arrrogant to me
13:02:44 <Brianetta> Phazorx: I can add it to the wish list
13:03:17 <Phazorx> well resetting can be done per admin requist for time being
13:03:36 <dihedral> Phazorx: i dont mean resetting the data
13:03:55 <dihedral> i mean knowing that game a is really game a and that game b really is game b
13:04:03 <dihedral> from one and the same server
13:04:34 <dihedral> then being able to keep track of who created the company and what performance history it had , etc.
13:04:39 <eekee> there's not that many different game going on on any one server. You chould be able to get a reasonable idea from company name
13:05:03 <dihedral> eekee - if a server runs for a week non stop
13:05:09 <dihedral> has a restart date of 2051
13:05:20 <Noldo> eekee: it comes down to the definition of operating system, is it just kernel or kernel + some userland tool that are essential or all the stuff up to the window manager
13:05:27 <dihedral> until the next game starts
13:05:38 <dihedral> you will have 5 different games in one week
13:06:10 <dihedral> if there were a $something that was consistent for one of those games
13:06:17 <dihedral> but differed from one game to another
13:06:31 <eekee> Noldo: yeah, it does, & to be level with the Windows & OS X folks I think you'd need to include the desktop in the OS
13:06:38 <Phazorx> consistency of timeline?
13:06:39 <Brianetta> It'd be easiest to get autopilot to close down the dedicated server and start it again
13:06:49 <Brianetta> or issue a new gameitself
13:06:59 <Brianetta> rather than lettinng openttd reach a date and restart itself
13:07:06 <eekee> That's where the KDE or Gnome becomes important, they're KDE or Gnome machines with GNU & Linux in the back-end
13:07:10 <Phazorx> Brianetta: that is basicaly same - admin action
13:07:21 <Brianetta> Phazorx: Except without an admin
13:07:51 <Phazorx> Brianetta: why would it restart by iotself, based on what conditions ?
13:08:10 <Brianetta> If the date reaches the rester_date
13:08:25 <dihedral> Brianetta: i dont quite follow
13:08:40 <dihedral> all my games restart once they reach a certain date
13:08:47 <Brianetta> exactly what I'm saying
13:09:01 <Brianetta> Phazorx asked what conditions lead to it restarting itself
13:09:02 <Phazorx> dihedral: enforcement method
13:09:10 <Phazorx> cirrently it is ottd itself
13:09:22 <Phazorx> Brianetta: inpmlyes that will be Autiopilot's responsibility
13:09:35 <Brianetta> If you want autopilot to knwo about it, it had better be
13:09:55 <eekee> Gekko: NOT my point! IceWM can't remotely compare with Windows for application integration, nor can any other of the literally thousands of other window managers out there. KDE & Gnome are merely the most developed examples of desktops, XFCE isn't quite in the same league of integratoin & power that Windows offers
13:10:02 <dihedral> Brianetta: you could base it on the seed - roughtly
13:10:19 <dihedral> as it could happen that it is the same
13:10:42 <Brianetta> Doesn't help you at all if you use the same seed
13:10:46 <dihedral> though loading a savegame will provide the same seed
13:10:52 <Gekko> eekee: Windows come with... notepad
13:10:59 <Phazorx> dihedral: loading save game should not restart counter
13:11:20 <Brianetta> Phazorx: Loading a saved game and loading a scenario are the same operation
13:11:31 <dihedral> gan the gameseed be fetched with upd?
13:12:00 * dihedral asks for everyone to disregard my last question
13:12:19 <Phazorx> is date available to autopilot or openttdlib?
13:12:25 <eekee> Gekko: Windows comes with the ability to copy and paste images or word processing data or WHATEVER between applications that don't even deal with the same formats. That is some HEAVY back-end work, and afaik the only things that even begin to let you do that in unixy operating systems are KDE & Gnome
13:12:55 <Phazorx> in that case it can not be used for determining different game start temporary
13:13:19 <dihedral> hence i want a timestamp added :-D
13:13:46 <dihedral> when was the map load
13:13:53 <Phazorx> peter1138, btw brianettsa box, comparing performance with 500 trains before r10000 and now... has gain up to 20% performance but not any more
13:14:08 <eekee> Alright, I'm out. Have fun all
13:14:12 <Phazorx> is the networking part more demanding than pathfinding?
13:14:45 <peter1138> your sentence doesn't parse
13:14:46 <Phazorx> hash optimization affected cooper's box much less than it affects single games
13:14:49 <peter1138> and "now" is not a revision
13:14:57 <valhallasw> btw; what's the reason openttd is not using SF.net svn?
13:15:12 <Phazorx> now bei9ng current, past hash optimization patch, release
13:15:24 <peter1138> current is not a revision either
13:15:51 <dihedral> Brianetta: would you think a timestamp would make sense?
13:15:54 <Phazorx> peter1138: it doesnt matter which one 10170-10295
13:16:01 <dihedral> for the sake of building statistics
13:16:10 <dihedral> should not be more than a uint32 right?
13:16:47 <Phazorx> my point is, where i saw 100-400% improvement on single player i see 20% on multuplayer
13:17:03 <valhallasw> peter1138: yes, but anything specific in mind?
13:17:22 <peter1138> valhallasw: we have our own perfectly decent hosting. why would we need sf?
13:18:26 <peter1138> Phazorx: with profiling? (not that it's very easy in multiplayer)
13:18:46 <Rubidium> Phazorx: from r10266 trunk has become quite a bit slower (due to a little stress testing of cargopackets, which will be removed)
13:19:19 <dihedral> cargo packets will be removed or the stress testing?
13:19:50 <Phazorx> peter1138: with RL experience only
13:20:04 <Phazorx> and i can not either debug or profile anything network related on my box
13:20:15 <Phazorx> it segfaults trying to do anything udp related
13:20:33 <Phazorx> if built with debug simblos
13:20:48 <peter1138> so what are you saying, it just "feels" slower?
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13:21:03 <Phazorx> peter1138: 80% is a tad more than "it feels"
13:21:09 <orudgetest> #openttd is now available on the tt-forums applet
13:22:29 <dihedral> which tt-forums applet?
13:22:42 <orudge> because OpenTTD newbies would constantly come into #tycoon and annoy people
13:22:56 <Phazorx> 80% as in it consuming 80% CPU rather than close to 100% before
13:25:53 <peter1138> so it's less and you still complain? :p
13:26:32 <dihedral> peter1138: some people have a bad day if they have nothing to complain about
13:26:39 <Phazorx> i'm poiting out that it it quite different amount of "less" than has been proven by local tests
13:27:08 <Rubidium> Phazorx: and MP was always much slower with YAPF than SP with YAPF because YAPF had to ditch it's caches every game tick
13:27:48 <Phazorx> hmm... i'm not too in-depth with structure of ottd networkign mdoel
13:28:02 <Phazorx> but isnt it based on synchrocity between all clients and server?
13:28:32 <Rubidium> yes, and YAPF wasn't completely desync free, but it should be since around r10300 IIRC
13:29:01 <Rubidium> YAPF without the trashing of it's caches that is
13:29:10 <Phazorx> hmm... so at that point maintaining cache would become network safe?
13:29:45 <Phazorx> that cpuld explain mych lower yield of optimization in case of network...
13:30:55 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
13:31:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10323 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 4 dirs):
13:31:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: reference company name, number and player (president) name
13:32:17 <peter1138> "19 files in 4 dirs"
13:33:03 <orudge> hmm, tt-forums has had 141863 more posts in 2006 than it did in 2001. Which isn't surprising, really, as it only had 4300 posts in 2001.
13:33:18 <orudge> a nice 6088 spamb^H^H^H^H^Husers signed up in 2006, too.
13:33:41 <Rubidium> !calc (141863 + 4300)/4300
13:33:42 <_42_> Rubidium: 33.9913953488;
13:33:49 <dihedral> how is the bandwidth of that tt-forums orudge
13:33:53 <Rubidium> ooh, 34 times more ;)
13:35:04 <orudge> dihedral: 120GB or so per month, iirc
13:35:24 <Phazorx> 'im trying to digest how CHANCE16I works
13:35:34 <dihedral> orudge: you have a good offer or is it funded?
13:35:41 <orudge> We have a good hosting solution
13:35:42 <Phazorx> being as simle as CHANCE16I(a, b, v) ((uint16)(v) <= (uint16) ((65536 * (a)) / (b)))
13:35:53 <orudge> 202GB in the past 30 days
13:35:59 <orudge> 2.21TB in the past year :)
13:36:10 <Phazorx> v is a the essential output in this case ?
13:36:21 <dihedral> orudge: may i ask what the hosting solution is?
13:36:33 <orudge> A dedicated server colocated in Amsterdam
13:36:34 <Rubidium> Phazorx: no it "returns" a bool
13:36:39 <orudge> advertising and donations cover most of the costs
13:36:55 <dihedral> what is the cost - if you dont mind
13:37:13 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i see (i guess i did not phrase it correctly)
13:37:43 <peter1138> Phazorx: no, it's input...
13:40:12 <dihedral> orudge: 202GB is that web traffic or total traffic
13:40:24 <orudge> total traffic for Gandalf
13:41:51 <orudge> as for how much it costs, the base cost is around €170/month
13:42:13 <orudge> advertising and sponsorship helps cover most of that, though.
13:42:16 <dihedral> base = including all bandwidth?
13:42:20 <orudge> but there's sometimes still a shortfall
13:43:04 <orudge> could be changed to 1Gbps if need be, but we don't need ;)
13:43:22 <orudge> it's only around 1Mbps bandwidth we use, by the 95th percentile system
13:43:28 <orudge> but that still adds up to a bit
13:44:07 <dihedral> would it save money if you had a mirror of some stuff?
13:44:14 <orudge> not much can be mirrored really
13:44:18 <orudge> everything's in hand, anyway
13:44:21 <orudge> although donations are appreciated
13:44:29 <orudge> but advertising will generally cover the cost
13:44:35 <orudge> what isn't covered is paid for by me/my company
13:44:39 <dihedral> i have nothing to donate - hence i asked about mirroring :-)
13:45:09 <dihedral> as i pay nothing for my colocated server :-)
13:45:15 <dihedral> also 100Mbit no bw limit
13:45:24 <orudge> no bandwidth limit? at all?
13:45:27 <orudge> How did you wangle that one, then?
13:45:34 <orudge> Well, in all, I have some 5 servers scattered across the globe, anyway
13:45:38 <dihedral> we resell to others for 180 euro/month
13:45:54 <dihedral> the company does :-P
13:46:09 <dihedral> every employee may setup his own server here :-D
13:46:31 <dihedral> i would be happy if there was anything i could do :-)
13:46:42 <orudge> I'll keep that in mind, cheers
13:47:06 <Phazorx> <dihedral> every employee may setup his own server here :-D << that being limitted to web server?
13:47:33 <orudge> Where are the servers located?
13:47:35 <dihedral> guess where my games run :-)
13:47:47 <orudge> got an IP to ping/traceroute, just out of curiousity? :p
13:47:50 <dihedral> in the room next to my office
13:48:20 <dihedral> not sure it responds to icmp packets
13:48:35 <dihedral> what ip from - i can open the port
13:48:49 <orudge> I was looking from pc.owenrudge.net and phoenix.zernebok.com
13:49:20 <orudge> but only from pc.owenrudge.net
13:49:25 <orudge> (which is also located in Germany)
13:49:34 <orudge> was just curious, anyway :)
13:50:20 <dihedral> seriously - if you want anything let me know :-D
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13:51:21 <orudge> Again, will keep it in mind :)
13:51:46 <dihedral> i had 7 hops to phoenix.zernebok.com
13:51:51 <orudge> would it be hypothetically possible to ship a server to you to connect up, or is that not possible?
13:52:05 <dihedral> i have one in the rack already
13:52:22 <dihedral> dont think they would allow it
13:53:44 <dihedral> who does not ask never gets anything :-P
13:54:02 <orudge> Heh, I was just wondering, I don't have a server to put in a rack at present
13:54:08 <orudge> but just to keep in my mind should it arise
13:54:40 <Phazorx> dihedral: how beefy is the box?
13:55:31 <dihedral> currently running 4 ottd games, apache2 php5 mysql 5.0 and svn1.4
13:56:10 <dihedral> seeing as we have all the hardware here as we build appliances an outage is never very long :-D
13:56:14 <Phazorx> probably small ottd games :)
13:56:21 <dihedral> it it's due to a hw failure
13:56:38 <Phazorx> small in amount of action rather than mapsize
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13:56:41 <dihedral> Phazorx: check openttdlib.dihedral.de/example2.php
13:57:32 <dihedral> the games are not 'that' unpopular...
13:57:38 <dihedral> sometimes it seems a little too quiet
13:58:18 <dihedral> FP3 should do well today
13:58:23 <Phazorx> i'm just looking at number of vehicles
13:58:47 <dihedral> for some reason i get a lot of noobs
13:58:53 <dihedral> which is quite a pain up the rear end
13:59:01 <dihedral> and the settings a close to hard
13:59:13 <Phazorx> "Ilm\'now", magicquotes :)
13:59:46 <dihedral> i will remove that from the class
13:59:49 <orudge> where it all started ;)
14:00:31 <orudge> I wonder if I should upload the original 0.1 source to SourceForge
14:00:33 <orudge> as SF only has 0.1.1 IIRC
14:00:37 <orudge> just for posterity, you know.
14:01:59 <dihedral> would be nice for sentimental reasons :-D
14:02:12 <mikegrb> what? 0.1 isn't the latest?!
14:02:19 <orudge> I even have some of Ludde's pre-OpenTTD code
14:02:21 <orudge> but I won't release that
14:02:24 * mikegrb dls 0.1.1 to see what great new stuff
14:02:27 <orudge> as officially, that code isn't under the GPL I guess :p
14:03:03 <orudge> something I did have in the 0.1 code, or at least, the 0.1.1 code that never got released (ie, someone else made an 0.1.1 and that became official)
14:03:07 <dihedral> Atari never got back to me
14:03:07 <orudge> was headers in every source file, hmm.
14:03:18 <dihedral> i wonder if i should give them another call or just drop the mater
14:04:17 <orudge> Maybe worth trying again
14:05:07 <Phazorx> what do u want from atari?
14:05:09 <dihedral> i would give kirk prindle a call and see if there is anything to get from him
14:05:29 <dihedral> that they make their ttd grf files freeware
14:05:44 <dihedral> so that openttd can distribute them
14:06:20 <dihedral> it's been months since i lasst called him :-P
14:08:16 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
14:08:57 <Maedhros> i can't imagine them doing that
14:09:24 <dihedral> well - then at least i expect atari to give a no as an answer
14:09:31 <dihedral> and not no answer :-P
14:10:33 <Brianetta> dihedral: Not just the grf files - the program code, too
14:10:55 <Brianetta> openttd began as decompiled code
14:11:10 <dihedral> so it would have to be made opensource or freeware?
14:11:10 <Brianetta> which means that the GPL might not be legal
14:11:36 <Brianetta> There would have to be a complete waiver of liability from whoever owns copyrightr
14:11:45 <Brianetta> This might or might not even be Atari
14:11:55 <Brianetta> Last time anybody asked them, they couldn't be arsed to find out
14:12:23 <dihedral> last time i asked i was not redirected to the department dealing with it
14:12:34 <dihedral> i only spoke to the leagal department
14:12:48 <dihedral> some senior director
14:25:42 <dihedral> orudge: if you buy an NSA 2189 and give me a virtual host on that i would take out my server here and have that thing in instead :-D
14:26:00 <orudge> How much would that cost, then? ;)
14:27:31 <dihedral> 2 750GB hdd's in raid 1 using 3ware 9550 with bbu
14:27:59 <dihedral> that would be around 3000$ i think
14:28:13 <dihedral> oh - missing the network cards :-D
14:29:21 <mikegrb> heh that is close to the hosts we use
14:30:04 <dihedral> you can add another 4GB if you like :-)
14:30:09 <mikegrb> 16 gb on the current ones ;)
14:30:29 <dihedral> the quadcore xeons have 16mb 3rd level cache
14:30:42 <stillunknown> peter1138: are you around?
14:30:54 <mikegrb> not sure the exact hard drive size but we use 3ware0 9550s with bbu and raid 1
14:31:35 <mikegrb> yes, they are /very/ nice
14:31:40 <dihedral> if you want to - you can add up to 24 1Gbit net cards
14:31:52 <dihedral> and have service ip addresses :-P
14:32:03 <dihedral> i'll do the iptables rules for ya :-P
14:32:08 <mikegrb> well you don't need multiple cards for multiple ips
14:32:25 <dihedral> no - but it's more fun ;-P
14:32:29 <mikegrb> we use ebtables for handling the routing rules
14:32:58 <stillunknown> Anyone know how fast a vehicle must go to travel one game unit in one tick?
14:33:01 <dihedral> it can to mac address matching
14:33:25 <dihedral> but it also can make use of ipp2p
14:33:44 <mikegrb> seems 60 is the most ips on a host
14:33:49 <dihedral> mikegrb: why do you have to?
14:34:04 <mikegrb> we do some special low level stuff
14:34:40 <dihedral> as an example - not exactly what you do :-P
14:35:22 <mikegrb> well some arp stuff and what not
14:35:29 <mikegrb> we do virtual servers ;)
14:35:40 <mikegrb> gotta make sure people can't arp for someone else's ip
14:35:50 <mikegrb> well, preventing arp poisening ;)
14:36:12 <mikegrb> also prevent rouge dhcp servers and what not though that bit I'm sure could be done with iptables
14:36:13 <dihedral> sounds like i already like your job
14:36:53 <mikegrb> well there are also the customers who should be with a managed provider and ask silly questions every day ;)
14:37:07 <dihedral> yeah - i dont like that job
14:37:19 <dihedral> i like having my hands on a servers commandline :-D
14:37:42 <dihedral> i miss my job in england
14:40:00 <dihedral> i get to do some sad php processing user enties and saving to a db
14:40:25 <dihedral> just not processing webforms
14:40:41 <hylje> enjoy your raw way of doing forms
14:41:25 * dihedral smiles like he did not do anything
14:41:40 <dihedral> from one ear to the other
14:42:14 <stillunknown> Anyone know how big tiles are supposed to be in comparison with real life?
14:42:52 <Rubidium> there is no 1:1 comparison with real life
14:43:34 <stillunknown> I'm trying to figure out how fast a vehicle should go, to move one unit in one tick.
14:44:01 <dihedral> that information is still unknown
14:44:13 <Rubidium> when looking at the width of tracks it would be like 4 meters, when looking at the length of wagons it would be like 50 meters, when looking at houses it would be like 30 meters, when looking at ships it would be like 500 meters, when looking at aircraft 70 meters, when looking at busses (lengthwise) ....
14:45:06 <stillunknown> I'm considering improving the train controller, but i would like to know certain relations.
14:45:16 <peter1138> there are no relations :)
14:45:30 <dihedral> you may look but aint gonna find
14:46:07 <stillunknown> I just want to know what's behind that strange UpdateTrainSpeed function, and how it decides how many moves it should do each tick.
14:46:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10324 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: reference engine names by index
14:47:06 <dihedral> peter1138: can getdate be packported to the next stable release?
14:48:02 <peter1138> will it? i've no idea
14:48:22 <dihedral> is there no list of things to backport?
14:50:38 <dihedral> and could the DMY format be turned into the standard YMD?
14:52:43 <peter1138> no confusion with DMY or MDY then
14:52:48 <peter1138> unless it's sql server 2005
14:52:54 <peter1138> which thinks YDM is a valid format :O
14:55:28 <stillunknown> Internal speed in the game, is it mph or kph?
14:55:54 <Rubidium> arbitrary distance unit per arbitrary time unit
14:56:23 <stillunknown> How are they related to displayed units?
14:56:59 <peter1138> the newgrf spec lists what they are
14:57:21 <peter1138> mph / 3.2 for ships & rvs, mph / 1.6 for trains, and something else for aircraft
14:58:51 <stillunknown> Wow, that means that a train moving at a speed of 160 mph, calls the move code 100 times :-|
15:00:57 <stillunknown> Rubidium: You would guess lower or higher?
15:01:08 <stillunknown> Because it is possible i missed a factor 2.
15:01:24 <peter1138> correct, it's not right
15:01:45 <Rubidium> rather something like once per 100 >> 8 times per tick
15:02:20 <stillunknown> But spd is in subspeed units.
15:02:33 <stillunknown> The bitshift is to get to normal speed.
15:03:20 <Rubidium> stillunknown: no, the amount of game units to move
15:04:36 <stillunknown> You were right, the order is 2^2 for fast trains.
15:05:24 <stillunknown> So speed is game units to move divided by 256?
15:05:34 <stillunknown> Normal speed that is.
15:07:01 <Rubidium> what is "normal speed"?
15:07:15 <Rubidium> just another arbitrary speed unit?
15:07:47 <stillunknown> The unit of cur_speed, but i was wrong
15:08:39 * dihedral updates his mac os x
15:09:33 <dihedral> poerbooks never had a g5
15:09:46 <dihedral> g5 was server processor only
15:12:51 <dihedral> the mac rescued me yesterday, after i was not able to build pre signals in a nighly mp
15:13:21 <dihedral> nor could i scroll using the arrow keys :-( was quite frustrating
15:14:39 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler
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15:21:54 <oxygene__> am i the only one getting a lot of warnings when compiling from scratch?
15:24:34 <peter1138> you'll get a shed load of string warnings
15:25:12 <oxygene__> that's what i meant
15:25:26 <peter1138> yup, that's perfickly normal
15:26:43 *** oxygene__ is now known as oxygene_
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15:58:34 * dihedral is going to have a BBQ :-D
16:00:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10325 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Fix (r10323): Missed 3 company name references
16:05:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
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16:41:45 <bubersson> Hi all, I have a small question: I'm trying to compile trunk with codeBlocks and when linking executable I have this warning: "cannot find -lzlibstat" (by ld.exe). Don't you know what I'm doing wrong or where's the problem?
16:43:30 <oxygene_> looks like you are missing a library
16:44:47 <bubersson> whole error looks like this: -\Dev-Cpp\mingw32\bin\ld.exe: cannot find -lzlibstat
16:45:17 <bubersson> so maybe its bad version of ld.exe or something...
16:45:20 <oxygene_> i'm not using windows so i can't help you here
16:45:31 <oxygene_> ld is the linker. it's not its fault
16:45:41 <oxygene_> do you have zlib installed?
16:46:03 <bubersson> a thought so, but will have a look at it...
16:48:44 <Phazorx> is recent naightly still have cargo stress test stuff ?
16:50:45 <Phazorx> grr... and yapf is still not using cache beyond current tick?
16:51:18 <Rubidium> Phazorx: YAPF does so since around r10300
16:51:59 <Phazorx> Rubidium: so it should be a bit faster compared to 295?
16:53:20 <Phazorx> hmm... why wouldnt it be faster if it does less work now ?
16:53:37 <Rubidium> did I *ever* say that it does less work?
16:54:07 <Phazorx> i assumed that if it does something less often it would result in less work
16:54:34 <Phazorx> like if you do sometihng once a a year compared to once a day normally a factor is number of days in year.. isnt it ?
16:55:30 <Rubidium> well, *if* you assume that only the code trash the cache is removed, then it results in less work... but it does cache slightly less information now
16:55:30 <Phazorx> /home/alanin/OpenTTD/bin/data/ottdc_grfpack/def/pb_av8/
16:56:46 <Phazorx> what i assumed is that it was disregarding tile cache every tick before and it doesnt have to that anymore
16:57:24 <Phazorx> imo maintaining static information rather than rebuilding it every tick shoud result in significatly less amount of work... or there was no point of caching to start with
16:58:39 <Rubidium> Phazorx: the cache was still used for pathfinding of all vehicles during that tick, so it did help
16:59:14 <Rubidium> the "issue" is that with the new non-trashing behaviour *less* information could be cached
16:59:33 <Rubidium> i.e. in worst case the new version is slower than the old one
17:00:05 <Phazorx> so we do it less often but also lost cache efficency
17:00:11 <Phazorx> heh cant get 'em all eh?
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17:03:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10326 /trunk/src/lang/ (34 files): -Update: change to new string codes used in english.txt
17:03:36 <ln-> why does the sea advance so slowly in the scenario editor?
17:03:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
17:06:07 <hylje> he wasnt asking for a workaround
17:06:24 *** mikk36 is now known as mikk36|away
17:06:25 <Rubidium> ln-: because it uses the "normal" game engine to flood
17:06:27 *** mikk36|away is now known as mikk36
17:10:05 <ln-> isn't it immoral that towns and industries get built on sea-level, and they are destroyed as soon as the game starts?
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10327 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp:
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r10236) [FS#934]: Vehicles wait at stations when they arrive early even
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: if they haven't been timetabled to wait, so make sure the lateness counter gets
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: updated as well.
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17:29:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10328 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp ship_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Close the timetable window when closing the vehicle window.
17:36:00 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: how is lego going? :)
17:39:45 <TrueBrain> Yesterday you trashed your work and started over :p
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17:40:54 <Wolf01> today i'll trash my work and i'll start it again :)
17:41:10 <Wolf01> i think i need to redraw only 4 tiles
17:41:14 <TrueBrain> Ah :p It might be easiest if you take the original image and draw over it :)
17:41:26 <Wolf01> but they look ugly in the new version
17:41:48 <TrueBrain> (original image as in original TTD image :))
17:42:44 <Wolf01> that is not really a problem, the problem is that i missed a step in 4 tiles
17:43:03 * Sacro is fleeing his house D:
17:43:31 <TrueBrain> ah :) Wolf01: you should also post (small) ingame screenshots :p
17:44:10 <Wolf01> i posted one, i'll post another when i have all the 4 base terrain types done
17:44:37 <Wolf01> the cleared-dirty-grassy-grass
17:46:06 <TrueBrain> I posted an in-game screenshot, not you :p
17:47:45 <TrueBrain> oh, you updated it! :p
17:47:56 <TrueBrain> anyway, depth-perspective is still unclear :(
17:48:06 <Wolf01> nah, i'll update it soon
17:48:21 <Wolf01> the new depth perspective is more clear
17:48:39 <TrueBrain> and next time try tomake a shot without those stupid chessboard tiles :p
17:48:43 <TrueBrain> (remove them, fast forward :))
17:48:50 <TrueBrain> I forgot it too btw, but it is annoying :)
17:55:35 <skidd13> Is the inclusion of the random town layouts likely?
17:55:44 * stillunknown is trying to improve the train controller, digging through the usual compile problems atm
18:13:05 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away
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18:21:25 <Ammler> has someone here admin rights to brians standard?
18:22:02 <Bjarni> AFAIK only brianetta has that, but he isn't here right now
18:22:59 <valhallasw> unless it runs under ottdcoop's account, which is pretty unlikely... only brianetta
18:23:21 <Ammler> no, it runs under "autopilot"
18:23:35 <Bjarni> that's brianetta's script
18:23:44 <valhallasw> and possibly a user on sarah
18:23:45 <Ammler> no, I mean the unix user
18:24:15 <Ammler> thats why I know its the standard and not our public
18:24:25 <valhallasw> it's using 75% cpu
18:24:42 <Ammler> yes, and nobody is playing
18:24:57 <Ammler> only one is logged in but afk
18:25:14 <valhallasw> and our openttd is niced higher than autopilots
18:25:48 <oxygene_> how many servers are you running on a physical server?
18:25:54 <Ammler> yes, thats suprised me too
18:26:04 <valhallasw> three, 2 coop and one nightly
18:27:07 <oxygene_> i could offer you my box if you like
18:29:04 <valhallasw> that's not the problem
18:29:39 <oxygene_> just in in case you need an idle box NOW ;)
18:32:34 <Phazorx> we can use alanins for actual game
18:32:50 <Phazorx> however that's an overkill
18:33:03 <hylje> dont you think we should be strolling by #openttdcoop
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18:46:16 <peter1138> those slopes look weird :p
18:46:31 <Bjarni> not the toyland ones... they are just plain weird :p
18:47:01 <Bjarni> the slopes takes some time to getting used to
18:50:24 <Wolf01> about the slopes, if i keep the first step of the same color you'll see a square around the plain tile when you raise 4 corners
18:50:40 <glx> there are some lighting bugs it seems
18:51:16 <Wolf01> is hard to do a very good lightning with steps when all the tiles (top-central-bottom) use the same graphic :P
18:52:20 <Wolf01> once i tried to draw round-shaped corners, but they looked very weird when i put them close
18:56:16 <Wolf01> it would be very cool if we can have 3 different graphics, not for all the tiles, like corner-corner, straight-corner and corner-straight and the same for slopes
18:57:46 <Wolf01> but that is only for lightning, or maybe to help drawing round-shaped corners
18:58:08 <Wolf01> and round shaped roads over an hill instead of a ^
19:01:26 <Wolf01> we have something more weird here, too bad i can't show it to you because google maps doesn't have a close viev of that area
19:02:01 <Wolf01> is a 5 way roadcross with a single railway in the middle
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19:08:46 <Wolf01> i know one guy of my same age died there, is bad to die at 20 years because you don't see a train in the middle of a roadcrossing :/
19:14:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10329 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
19:14:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature [FS#812]: (patch) option to select the "default" rail type when you
19:14:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: start a new game or load a game. This is done either static, i.e. rail,
19:14:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: electrified rail, monorail and maglev, or dynamic which takes either the first
19:14:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: or last available railtype or the railtype that is used most on the map.
19:20:31 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
19:24:44 <Bjarni> <Wolf01> i know one guy of my same age died there, is bad to die at 20 years because you don't see a train in the middle of a roadcrossing :/ <-- that's bad
19:26:23 <Bjarni> a 5 way crossing is always bad, but to add the railroad is just... oh well. If the crossing is made correctly, then it shouldn't be a problem, but it's my experience that generally railroad crossings lacks the safety build into the Scandinavian ones (most likely due to cost. They cost a fortune here)
19:28:05 <Bjarni> yeah, crossings are expensive, but I'm pretty sure that you can can build a a crossing in USA for less than you can in Scandinavia, basically due to less safety
19:29:35 <Smoovious> what's different about Scandanavian ones?
19:31:04 <Prof_Frink> LCs are basically safe, barring: a) breakdowns and b)morons
19:31:23 <Prof_Frink> And there's not much you can do about either
19:31:49 <Bjarni> they activate when the train reaches a certain location. The crossing then close the barriers and stuff, checks that everything works correctly (that's a whole lot of sensors) and then report back to the train if something is wrong. The train will then be told in time to stop in front of the road in case of a failure
19:32:24 <Smoovious> could put a bunch of big spikes o n the front of all engines, so they look like their sole purpose on the track is to kill someone... like, they're gunning for you
19:32:38 <Bjarni> failures can be anything from failure to activate to broken lightbulbs, jammed barriers or stuck bells
19:33:13 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: What's really needed is a system to check the track's clear
19:33:38 <Bjarni> don't give the safety guys any new ideas
19:33:48 <Prof_Frink> 'cause if someone breaks down between the barriers, they'd be forked
19:33:49 <Bjarni> they are expensive enough as it is
19:33:51 <Smoovious> catapult launchers to fling anything sitting on the crossing, away, right before t he train gets there
19:34:08 <Prof_Frink> And then there's morons who dodge round the barriers
19:34:28 <Prof_Frink> Or, to give them their full title
19:34:37 <Prof_Frink> Darwin Award Volunteers
19:34:40 <Smoovious> yeah, well, they deserve to get hit imho... take em out of the gene pool
19:35:10 <Bjarni> if anything is stuck on the tracks due to a breakdown, the trains can usually stop in time as it will be visible in decent time. Most crossings are at 75 km/h or 100 km/h lines
19:35:11 <Maedhros> yes, but the passengers of the train that hits them don't deserve to die...
19:35:12 <Prof_Frink> It's a shame though
19:35:34 <Bjarni> then again once in a while there is a curve or poor visibility and then... oh well
19:35:35 <Prof_Frink> Tends to break the train, and cause the driver to have a mental breakdown
19:36:13 <Smoovious> deaths on trains, from hitting a road vehicle, are extremely rare... most of the time, passengers don't even realize it until someone is asking for witness statements
19:36:18 <Prof_Frink> What's needed is a Big Red Button to hit if you break down
19:36:25 <Smoovious> hell, a city bus I was on hit a car... didn't even feel i t
19:36:37 <Bjarni> Japan has that big red button (but I think it's yellow)
19:37:02 <Prof_Frink> Obviously, with some form of anti-tamper to stop drunken studens causing chaos
19:38:05 <Bjarni> Maedhros: sounds bad for the HST... it fails to clear the track as intended
19:38:23 <Bjarni> trains really has devices to clear the track for whatever they hit
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19:44:41 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> hell, a city bus I was on hit a car... didn't even feel i t <-- I once reversed with like 12 cars to connect to another one. I didn't feel when I hit it. I just got the message over the radio that it was hit (at low speed... I knew it was there)
19:45:18 <Bjarni> if it's possible to hit a train car without feeling it, then what about a road car of around a single ton... I don't see the huge danger
19:45:56 <Bjarni> looks like he didn't like us talking about railroad crossing safety
19:46:29 <Bjarni> if mikk36 is going to leave now, then it's a dangerous topic :P
19:46:52 <mikk36> just removed my clients hdd from my machine
19:46:53 <Bjarni> well, it still is though
19:46:58 <mikk36> and put it back to his machine
19:47:40 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
19:48:07 <mikk36> now installing windows :)
19:48:31 <mikk36> ok, i'm going to leave now :D
19:49:04 <Bjarni> <mikk36> now installing windows :) <-- you live dangerously
19:52:04 <mikk36> i like living dangerously :)
19:54:22 <Bjarni> that's why my robot software can make the robot find the way to the goal every single time
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19:55:04 <Bjarni> eekee: quit copying me >_<
19:55:19 <|ReNZoR|> Just wonder, I used to play tt a couple of years ago
19:55:35 <|ReNZoR|> now yesterday I downloaded it
19:55:41 <Bjarni> I think that's a common thing in here
19:55:46 <Bjarni> the used to play TT, that is
19:55:51 <|ReNZoR|> And i remember that it used to be alot more maps
19:56:10 <|ReNZoR|> bf, but now there is only a few
19:56:22 <Bjarni> we can't help you with missing files from your pirated version
19:56:43 <|ReNZoR|> its the Openttd thingy
19:57:04 <Bjarni> oh you mean you downloaded OpenTTD and request more scenarios in OpenTTD?
19:57:05 <Biff> i have the original boxed transport tycoon deluxe cd somewhere
19:57:47 <|ReNZoR|> and i miss like bigger cities
19:57:52 <Bjarni> I read it as you just confessed to pirating TTD to get the data files :s
19:58:14 <|ReNZoR|> I even have the cd somewhere
19:58:26 <Bjarni> "I used to play TT and I just downloaded it yesterday"...
19:59:03 <SmatZ> latest builds are o lot bugged :( wrong budged window, YAPS asserts, cargo rating at unload stations :(
19:59:12 <Bjarni> well, some people do show up here and ask us to help them with their pirated versions because whoever they got it from didn't include all files.... it's rare, but it happens
19:59:19 <eekee> I just realised I'm very good at understanding what people mean to say
19:59:49 <|ReNZoR|> anyways what im wondering is, is there a way i can download scenarios?
19:59:49 <Bjarni> 0.5.2 should be pretty stable
20:00:01 <eekee> I'm much less good at making myself understood, but ya, carry on
20:00:23 <Biff> eekee: you havent been on irc long?
20:00:31 <Bjarni> nightly builds are defined as "unstable" so expect them to break your computer, burn your house and make your girlfriend leave you.... issues in them are likely less severe than that though
20:00:35 <peter1138> SmatZ: you know we have a website for that...
20:00:56 <SmatZ> peter1138: well... I do not want to open 3 bugs - maybe it is better to say here, isn't it?
20:01:33 <Bjarni> because if you open 3 new bug reports, then I would have less than 50% of the bugs assigned to me again :p
20:01:35 <SmatZ> is the displayed rating at unload stations intended?
20:01:41 <Biff> eekee: ah, you lose the ability to understand what people mean in a few years then
20:05:38 <|ReNZoR|> Is its possible to spec an online game?
20:05:41 <Maedhros> opinion gathering time - should pressing an "Autofill" button for timetables clear all the current timings?
20:06:14 <peter1138> by joining it as... a spectator
20:06:46 <peter1138> rocket science i guess
20:09:36 <Smoovious> also known as watching a game
20:10:55 <Smoovious> there's also a pretty decent manual online via the web page that a lot of people put a lot of effort into putting together... might not be a bad idea to take a look at it
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20:32:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10330 /trunk/src/lang/ (35 files): -Fix [FS#939]: budget window used wrong param for loan repay/borrow amounts
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20:36:29 <peter1138> and fucked up vehicle lengths :o
20:38:37 <peter1138> heh, 14MB of vehicles
20:42:29 <SmatZ> peter1138: a tough one for a path finder :)
20:42:33 <peter1138> ah, it's an old save :o
20:42:43 <peter1138> so it wasn't override my newgrf config, hehe
20:42:56 <peter1138> using TGVs for freight :(
20:43:29 <peter1138> how long does it take to die?
20:43:33 <SmatZ> :( it was the fastest one ...
20:43:48 <peter1138> TGVs are passenger trains!
20:44:36 <SmatZ> I am using 64bit compiler
20:44:48 <SmatZ> I will add as a comment
20:46:46 <peter1138> because it's an old save, it's no doubt picking up your settings from the config
20:46:49 <peter1138> so they're different
20:48:21 <SmatZ> I didn't use YAPF in 0.4.8 , maybe it was not even present there ... I am using some strandard config for the trunk
20:48:46 <SmatZ> but it worked with YAPF in older versions, like rev 10200
20:48:55 <peter1138> sure, but it works for me too
20:49:01 <peter1138> i suggest you load it, then save it
20:49:14 <peter1138> then we'll be testing it with your settings
20:49:46 <SmatZ> I am compiling it at 32bit machine to test it... moment please :)
20:49:47 <Rubidium> SmatZ: KUDr has made some (fairly fundamental) changes around r10300 to YAPF
20:50:12 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I know, I am reading the svn log often :)
20:50:41 <SmatZ> I will test rev before those changes
20:55:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10331 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
20:55:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Add the possibility of automatically filling in timetables based on
20:55:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the times from the first (or subsequent) run-throughs.
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21:08:56 <mikl> argh, tiMiDity doesn't crash when ottd does...
21:09:22 <mikl> so now I have the title track playing in three different instances
21:10:07 <peter1138> SmatZ: maybe you'd like to donate a 64bit machine to me? ;)
21:10:13 <prakti> I've taken another shot in extending the german town-name generator.
21:11:12 <SmatZ> peter1138: if I had enough money, I would donate 64bit machines for the whole dev team ;)
21:11:45 <mikl> argh, it's really hard to find out whether you are using too many sprites before the game crashes...
21:13:26 <peter1138> what is this "too many sprites" of which you speak
21:13:52 <mikl> peter1138: the dreaded "Error: Tried to load too many sprites (#16383; max 16383)"
21:13:57 <Rubidium> somebody still using 0.5.x ;)
21:14:11 <peter1138> oh, yes, people still use that version
21:14:13 <Rubidium> mikl: try to reach the sprite limit in trunk ;)
21:14:34 <mikl> Rubidium: I'd rather not - I'm not sure I have enough memory for that ;)
21:14:41 <peter1138> i only have 27000 sprites loaded
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21:15:11 <peter1138> how much memory do you have?
21:15:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10332 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#940]: ratings where also shown on drop-off stations.
21:16:00 <mikl> yeah, but Firefox eats most of it, the greedy badger...
21:17:22 <mikl> Heh, I love the danish names...
21:25:08 <Bjarni> <mikl> Heh, I love the danish names... <-- so do I. They are understandable :)
21:25:28 <mikl> Bjarni: Okssø seems to be a bit of a blooper, though
21:25:37 <mikl> but they are quite good, otherwise
21:26:00 <mikl> but ok, if you see the strange names cities have in southern Denmark...
21:26:23 <Bjarni> reminds me of the remark from the guy, who got a English town name of "Cunttown" xD
21:26:32 <Bjarni> now it can't make that one anymore
21:26:46 <mikl> I suppose that's for the best
21:27:24 <Bjarni> it's a combo of 4 strings or so and until this guy got it by pure randomness (or playing a zillion times), nobody would have noticed
21:27:45 <Bjarni> because it was hidden very well in the code
21:28:12 <mikl> Bjarni: so someone had done it on purpose?
21:29:36 <Bjarni> it was a random combo of strings and all other combos using those strings (with other strings) appeared to be sane
21:29:52 <mikl> so, simply the law of large numbers, then :)
21:29:54 <Bjarni> In August 2005 the road signs were replaced with theft-resistant signs welded to steel and secured in concrete to make the signs harder to take <-- some people read that as a challenge
21:30:07 <Bjarni> mikl: something like that
21:30:14 <mikl> I wonder where I would hang a sign like that...
21:30:29 <Bjarni> how about... over your bed?
21:30:36 <mikl> I can't imagine having it hanging somewhere a random guest might see it :)
21:30:56 <Bjarni> I guess you don't live in a dorm then
21:36:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10333 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#943]: News messages were shown on top of the endgame screen and high score chart.
21:37:11 <Bjarni> it's Japan... sometimes you see stuff there where you think "only in Japan"
21:37:25 <Bjarni> however I would say that USA could have produced this story as well
21:37:52 <Bjarni> except for the last part. The TV stations wouldn't care for a dead 14 year old student
21:37:58 <stillunknown> Does anyone what part of the train code is responsible for creating an initial distance between cars when they leave a depot?
21:38:22 <Smoovious> <Bjarni> except for the last part. The TV stations wouldn't care for a dead 14 year old student <--- they'd care a lot... makes for good rating
21:39:11 <stillunknown> peter1138: how funny, or were you being serious?
21:39:22 *** Nickman^Away is now known as Nickman
21:39:24 <peter1138> i tried to find it before
21:39:38 <Bjarni> it's a balance issue. If they can win more viewers by showing stuff like that than they lose by such incidents, then I think they are willing to do it
21:40:20 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> peter1138: how funny, or were you being serious? <-- to tell the truth, I'm not even sure where I should look for it so it could take a while to find
21:41:57 <peter1138> stillunknown: it must involve cached_veh_length (for shorter wagons) but that's only used by AdvanceWagons() which is called for reversing a train
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21:50:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10334 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#937]: with smooth scrolling enabled, the viewport destination was not clamped to the map
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23:14:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10335 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix (r10331): Increment the current order index *after* using it in UpdateVehicleTimetable.
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