IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-22
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00:00:37 <Chris82> oh many depots can cause lost trains?
00:01:02 <Phazorx> Rubidium: how woudl that be a problem?
00:01:18 <Phazorx> Chris82: iare breakdowns enabled?
00:01:28 <Chris82> breakdowns are off and so is servicing
00:01:47 <Phazorx> in that case unless you force trains to depots
00:01:51 <Rubidium> Phazorx: train going to nearest depot and then there's no route from that depot to it's next destination except a huge detour through several stations blablabla
00:01:53 <Chris82> I build depots only near the main station but he has them all over the place
00:01:54 <Phazorx> they can not really be buggeed by them
00:01:58 <Chris82> maybe that is the problem
00:02:24 <Phazorx> Rubidium: with breakdowns i can see that as a problem, but w/o - no
00:02:54 <Chris82> also in the latest trunk versions I didn't see any such problems even with breakdowns on
00:02:56 <Rubidium> and *if* we've had a savegame we would've probably already given you the correct answer instead of this guess work
00:03:05 <Phazorx> and that is true - in case of multiline networks service areas should be at same spot for all lanes and all directions
00:03:09 <Chris82> Those "bugs" are gone for me since the late r9xxx branches
00:03:49 <Phazorx> Chris82: with breakdowns it is not really a problem it is bad design as Rubidium says
00:05:57 <Chris82> I don't know if that save helps tho since I made it with my company and not his
00:06:42 <Chris82> there's only one other company
00:06:48 <Rubidium> and what magic savegame is it? Won't load here
00:06:49 <Chris82> I am yellow and he is brown I think
00:07:04 <Chris82> ahhh bugger totally forgot
00:07:19 <Chris82> you won't be able to load it because I increased the savegame version to 67 and I think 66 is the trunk version
00:07:57 <Chris82> hmmm then it's probably due to the patches I have in there like reduced air crashes, better graphs etc.
00:10:36 <Chris82> well I just try to find a way to reproduce it
00:10:43 <Chris82> that's the best way to find the cause ;)
00:11:18 <Rubidium> in a game without all those patches I hope, otherwise it is a useless waste of effort because screenshots are rarely enough
00:11:50 <Chris82> he had the problems in unpatched versions as well yeah
00:12:04 <Chris82> I have no patches installed which have any effect on pathfinding etc.
00:13:23 <Rubidium> I've seen those statements before, so don't get mad when I don't trust them
00:13:51 <Chris82> I don't get mad don't worry
00:14:00 <Chris82> especially because I have no such problems with my networks
00:14:16 <Chris82> so there is still a chance that he has some bogus layout with seldom but occuring errors
00:18:16 <Chris82> I am off to bed now too, 2 a.m. hell time flies by :D lol
00:18:49 <Chris82> :p my lecture starts at 8 am
00:18:53 <Chris82> I need my beauty sleep ;)
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00:56:47 <Hendikins> So, what is that $600 you lose each year?
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01:02:41 <SmatZ> but I would like to know
01:06:41 <SmatZ> I see memmove() is used everywhere in the code ... memcpy() would be faster as the areas usually don't overlap
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02:22:49 <mic> hello again :) i released "build under slopes" patch against trunk :)
02:23:11 <benc_> whoo! i'm all over that
02:23:23 <mic> will appreciate if somebody will see it :)
02:23:53 <benc_> suggestion, edit the first post to link directly to the patch
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02:27:37 <benc_> got a couple compile errors in VS 2005 express
02:28:30 <benc_> clear_cmd.cpp(215) : warning C4800: 'int' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
02:28:30 <benc_> clear_cmd.cpp(230) : warning C4305: 'initializing' : truncation from 'int' to 'bool'
02:28:30 <benc_> clear_cmd.cpp(393) : warning C4806: '!=' : unsafe operation: no value of type 'bool' promoted to type 'int' can equal the given constant
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02:41:12 <mic> i made new version without warnings
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02:43:03 <benc_> yes, playing around with it
02:44:23 <benc_> industry graphics apparently weren't meant to ever be on foundations :(
02:44:24 <mic> try to terraform purchased land )
02:44:31 <benc_> yeah, i noticed that, very cool!
02:45:24 <mic> yea, some grid on industries
02:47:52 <mic> try to start 7 AI and speedup game, then try to lower their constructions
02:48:25 <mic> you can give 10millions each AI optionally
02:48:37 <mic> to let them build more crap )
02:49:05 <benc_> nothing's better for building crap than old ai :)
02:49:34 <benc_> if you havent seen it already
02:55:23 <benc_> nah, getting the logic right is the hard part ;)
02:55:35 <mic> is it necessary to rename variables?
02:55:35 <benc_> still trying to crash it
02:56:07 <benc_> anything that doesnt conform to the style guidelines will be done before it hits the trunk
02:56:15 <benc_> either by the patcher (you) or the devs
02:56:38 <mic> is it necessary to rename variables from OneTwo to one_two?
02:57:10 <benc_> for style consistency, yeah, but dont take my word for it, i'm just a minion
03:09:18 <mic> is oneway roads in trunk?
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03:32:45 <mic> thr only problem that time for operations like "flooding map" may increase
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05:53:43 <Hendikins> Ah, Sydney. Where else would you have trains called "The Fish" and "The Chips"? :P
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07:47:03 <dihedral> i found out where the overflow of the php integer occures
07:48:01 <dihedral> 128 << 24 is the first one that fails...
07:49:03 <dihedral> that aint 32 bit to me :-)
07:49:33 <eekee> Not sure, but Python puts the result into one of it's long ints
07:49:45 <dihedral> php only has int and float
07:50:13 <dihedral> php has auto type casting
07:50:33 <eekee> I expect the reason is that it uses the upper bits are used to specify the data type
07:51:05 <eekee> ah, for auto type casting.. ugh, are you doing any math on the numbers?
07:51:25 <dihedral> i am working on OpenTTDLib, just want them to display
07:52:42 <roboboy> grr that serej guy or whatever it is has returned
07:52:46 <eekee> Reason I asked is because if you're doing something like var * 2 changing that to var * 2.0 should make php give you a float back
07:52:50 <dihedral> lol 128 << 32 gives me 128 :-P
07:53:35 <dihedral> i am overflowing the integer!!
07:54:09 <eekee> grr, you should have been doing 1 << 24 etc, that would have made that immediately obvious :)
07:55:28 <dihedral> anything above 127 << 24 overflows
07:55:56 <dihedral> ^ result from 1 << 31
07:56:01 <Rubidium> dihedral: and 128 * 16777216 (i.e. calculating the << manually and then multiply)
07:56:34 <dihedral> that did not overflow!!
07:56:45 <eekee> thought so. 1 << 31 should be 2147483648, which is 1 greater than the maximum positive number a signed 32-bit interger can display
07:57:46 <dihedral> doing 1 << 31 did overflow eekee
07:58:24 <Rubidium> because (1 << 31) - 1 is the maximum value for a int32
07:58:27 <eekee> Ah, I said "1 << 31 shouldn't" and you said "it does!" so I thought you meant it did work, as in workign properly, lol
07:59:28 <dihedral> eekee: ^ thats a diff :-P
08:01:56 <dihedral> never made it to a standard... it "dihed" :-P
08:02:40 <dihedral> if i use a dec2bin convertsion, and just concaternate the parts
08:02:54 <dihedral> i should have a 64 bit long binary string
08:03:02 <dihedral> representing the value i need
08:03:10 <dihedral> could that bee an approach?
08:04:12 <Maedhros> i wonder if you could cast the variable to long in php
08:04:49 <eekee> dihedral: what's the original data format? Long int?
08:05:18 <eekee> err.. long long int, whatever 64 bit is
08:05:18 <Rubidium> Maedhros: even then, aren't longs not always 64 bits?
08:06:07 <Rubidium> but as far as I could find, the only reference to int64 of anything php related is a bug in the mysql reading of int64 variables from the databased
08:06:52 <dihedral> php is not able to handl 64 bit integer variables
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08:07:08 <dihedral> and only has 2 numeric variable types
08:07:31 <eekee> Get an account on a 64-bit webserver :)
08:07:31 <dihedral> due to automatic type setting
08:07:45 <dihedral> eekee: this should work on 32 bit machines
08:08:13 <dihedral> then $str will becom int
08:08:14 <eekee> dihedral: what are the datatypes of the data you wish to display?
08:08:39 <dihedral> it's the money variable from openttd, sent in the udp packet
08:08:45 <dihedral> it's a 64 bit integer!
08:09:26 <dihedral> and it fails reading that packet data when this value is heigher 127 << 24
08:10:31 <eekee> damn, even if you rea it as 2x32 bits, the second one would still need to be an unsigned int for the math method to work...
08:10:59 <eekee> can you convert integers to a hex string?
08:11:51 <eekee> (gettign desperate here, lol)
08:12:33 <dihedral> if i have a binary string, i can convert it to a float
08:12:47 <dihedral> i.e. $str = "111111111111111111111111111111111111111111";
08:12:55 <eekee> ah cool, will it work on a 64 bit binary string?
08:13:15 <eekee> oh yeah that's cool ^_^
08:13:18 <dihedral> well - i just tried it with more than 32 ones in the string
08:13:30 <dihedral> and got float(4398046511100)
08:13:49 <eekee> reckon that's the way to go then
08:14:59 <dihedral> though i would have to start with the heighest uint8 fetched from the packet
08:15:08 <dihedral> and do a decbin() on it
08:15:23 <dihedral> then go to the uint8 before that
08:15:28 <eekee> yeah, slow, but seems to be the only way
08:15:33 <dihedral> and concaternate them all to a string
08:16:13 <Maedhros> and suddenly i remember why i don't particularly like php ;)
08:16:52 <dihedral> when not dealing with a 64 bit integer it's great :-P
08:17:02 <dihedral> or let me rephrase that
08:17:11 <eekee> I'm sure it is, for it's purpose
08:17:13 <dihedral> when dealing with stuff php can handle it is great :-D
08:17:33 <dihedral> now that was wisdom in is purity
08:18:23 <eekee> Honestly, as a thing for displaying dynamic web data, I think it's a little odd that it doesn't handle 64-bits.. ooh wait, is there some kind of arbitrary-precision math module for it?
08:20:27 <eekee> pear-math_binaryutils <-- try that module
08:20:56 <eekee> might need to look up pear-math_basex too
08:28:15 <dihedral> for some reason i dont believe 9.22337203685E+18 is a very valid income :-P
08:30:12 <dihedral> and that was a 63 bit "111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110001010011110000101"
08:31:06 <eekee> >>> 0xb111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110001010011110000101
08:31:06 <eekee> 80089528389143701834636597964342469598511739393734723455588795450022655164673L
08:31:36 <dihedral> i could use pack() Pack data into binary string
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08:32:14 <Maedhros> eekee: that's hex, not binary :p
08:32:49 <hylje> there was a binary literal somewhere
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08:33:00 * eekee hasn't slept last night, & barely slept Wednesday night :J
08:39:34 <dihedral> eekee should not play as much :-)
09:13:26 <dihedral> eekee: you feel like playing around with that php stuff? :-D
09:14:05 <dihedral> while( $answer === false ){ askQuestion() }
09:14:59 * eekee howls plaintivly like a wolf puppy
09:16:19 * dihedral calles a doctor for eekee
09:16:57 * eekee hides in the forest =o.o=
09:17:36 <peter1138> does php support gmp?
09:17:42 <eekee> I think you should stick with the binary thing, sorry if I made it more complicated by sugestign those modules
09:18:59 <dihedral> yes, if compiles --with-gmp
09:19:30 <dihedral> i am just at work so i cannot do ~that~ much atm
09:22:10 <dihedral> peter1138: would using gmp help?
09:22:26 <peter1138> gmp supports arbitrary length numbers
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09:34:08 <dihedral> gmp is not included as default
09:34:20 <dihedral> perhaps perhaps bcmath
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09:53:42 <MVV> i guess, i have a bug... i'll try explain...
09:55:45 <TheJosh> i have too...but i leave traps out with cheese in them at night time
09:56:23 <TheJosh> perhaps MVV needs some flyspray
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10:04:22 <[BDS]-Klaus> hat jemand paar tips in sachen linux server ott?
10:04:30 <[BDS]-Klaus> gibt es da scripts oder so?
10:05:00 <TrueBrain> [BDS]-Klaus: this is an english channel; please try again
10:06:22 <[BDS]-Klaus> hi... i need information about useful scripts for ott for linux server
10:06:51 <[BDS]-Klaus> i have 2 root servers and have 1 dedicated ott server
10:07:34 <[BDS]-Klaus> and now i search for scripts there are make the play easylier... usefull... or better
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10:08:42 <oxygene_> search for "autopilot"
10:09:56 <oxygene_> just search somewhere ;) i don't know the web page but i'm sure google will come up with something if you search for "openttd autopilot"
10:11:00 <[BDS]-Klaus> i think this is ok... i test it... thx
10:12:06 <TheJosh> peer resetted someone again. he is so nasty
10:12:17 <TheJosh> going around resetting people all the time
10:12:44 <TheJosh> i had better get off before he hacks _me_!
10:22:27 <[BDS]-Klaus> can anyone tell how to run server with autopilot?
10:22:40 <[BDS]-Klaus> i have read the maual but i didnt know what they mean
10:23:00 <[BDS]-Klaus> i have run a server... but what must i do now
10:23:07 <[BDS]-Klaus> to run this script
10:23:21 <[BDS]-Klaus> with no sql and irc support
10:24:47 <dihedral> i believe the docs and the readme state the exact commands that need to be executed
10:25:55 <[BDS]-Klaus> this time i start the server with this: openttd -D
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11:15:47 <KSiimson> latest nightly crashes
11:15:50 <KSiimson> listopenttd: /compile_farm/openttd/nightly/compile_dir/src/news_gui.cpp:278: void AddNewsItem(StringID, uint32, uint, uint): Assertion `_total_news == 30' failed.
11:17:34 <KSiimson> xd i downloaded it 30 minutes ago
11:18:02 <SmatZ> KSiimson: nightly is built once a day, at 23 UTC or so
11:18:07 <Rubidium> which was made 17 hours ago
11:18:24 <KSiimson> okay, time to browse the archive :p
11:23:11 <KSiimson> 235 doesn't even start up
11:24:50 <KSiimson> can't wait for next stable :)
11:27:26 <Jerub> .. I just saw the weirdest thing.
11:27:34 <Jerub> I saw a monorail train loop back on itself.
11:28:00 <Jerub> literally pass through itself.
11:28:05 <SmatZ> Jerub: trains cannot crash themselves
11:28:08 <dihedral> with 128 * pow( 2, 32 ) i dont even get a problem
11:28:36 <dihedral> if only i could get rid of these 2.81474976711E+16 thingies
11:29:00 <Rubidium> floating point doesn't have that much precision
11:29:30 <dihedral> but should 128 * pow( 2, 48 ) not be something with a bunch of trailing zeros?
11:29:53 <Rubidium> as I said, floating points don't have that kind of precision
11:30:11 <Rubidium> it'll just give you the floating point "value" closest to the given value
11:30:24 <Rubidium> and 2^whatever never gives you lots of trailing zeros
11:30:59 <SmatZ> double has 52 bits for mantisa, float has 23 bits
11:31:17 <SmatZ> long double has ... 63?
11:31:18 <Sacro> How does OpenTTD use different fonts under Windows? Does it use Freetype?
11:33:31 <dihedral> 75 * pow( 2, 48 ) = 21110623253299200 ??
11:34:07 <Sacro> peter1138: i don't see it
11:34:55 <eekee> dihedral: Python agrees *shrug*
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11:43:12 <dihedral> i have got to be doing something wrong...
11:43:22 <dihedral> i mean - i get half way decent values using bcmath now
11:44:05 <dihedral> the last server (appologies for querying a server that aint mine)
11:44:16 <dihedral> 2 income values seem strange
11:44:30 <Rubidium> they have a negative income
11:44:47 <dihedral> hence the 255 for << 24 and bejond?
11:45:10 <[BDS]-Klaus> can anyone tell me how to build trains on a road... as a tram
11:45:43 <Rubidium> [BDS]-Klaus: what version of OpenTTD?
11:46:47 <dihedral> would i be wrong to assume that if the value to be moved << 24 is 255
11:47:01 <dihedral> i treat them all as 0 and do a *-1?
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11:47:52 <eekee> ehhh... generally if the MSB is 1, it's negative
11:48:55 <dihedral> [BDS]-Klaus: there aint no trams for 0.5.2
11:48:58 <Rubidium> [BDS]-Klaus: then there is no way to get trams
11:49:20 <eekee> oh hey, I think that means that if the value to be moved << 24 is > 127, then it's negative
11:49:21 <dihedral> [BDS]-Klaus: get a nightly
11:49:52 <[BDS]-Klaus> what must i do to use tram?
11:50:02 <dihedral> eekee: for 64 bit integers?
11:50:09 <[BDS]-Klaus> what you mean with nightly... i have now installed original 0.52 of the website
11:50:19 <dihedral> the MSB is 128 << 24
11:50:30 <dihedral> :-) thought that sounded odd :-P
11:50:31 <SmatZ> dihedral: you use 64 bit values?
11:50:32 <Rubidium> [BDS]-Klaus: 0.5.2 is the newest stable version, "nightlies" are development snapshots that lead to 0.6.0. 0.5.3 will not have any new features, only bugfixes (so no trams in 0.5.3 either)
11:50:46 <dihedral> i am trying to at least
11:50:56 <dihedral> currently using the bc math extention to php
11:51:08 <dihedral> and that is looking quite promissing
11:51:08 <Rubidium> SmatZ: php doesn't have "native" 64 bits variables
11:51:23 <Rubidium> so he has to do all the trickery himself
11:51:25 <dihedral> bc math works with strings :-D
11:51:27 <SmatZ> dihedral Rubidium too bad I don't know PHP :(
11:51:48 <dihedral> you got me all suspended there :-P
11:51:55 <dihedral> getting my hops high
11:52:06 * dihedral is dissapointed in SmatZ
11:53:06 <SmatZ> if the highed doubleword is negative
11:53:14 <SmatZ> then the whole number is negative
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11:53:26 <dihedral> and what is the highed doubleword?
11:53:36 <eekee> that's it. Same goes for highest byte
11:53:39 <SmatZ> the more significant 32 bits
11:53:52 <Rubidium> ohoh, we're going to make dihedral crazy with bytes, words, dwords, qwords and nibbles ;)
11:54:12 <dihedral> as long as it fixes it i dont care :-)
11:54:18 * eekee throws some quarks into the mix & stirs
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11:54:37 * dihedral adds some strawberries
11:55:08 <Rubidium> dihedral: if "value" > pow(2, 63) "value" -= pow(2, 64) should solve it
11:55:36 <dihedral> is there a * somewhere
11:58:18 <dihedral> Rubidium: you are a genious :-D
11:59:16 <dihedral> now i only need to test it against a server where someone has a few billion money or value
12:00:02 <dihedral> i am at work, and cannot really open a game to check myself :-D
12:00:27 <eekee> I could run one, load up & old single-player game of mine
12:00:39 <Rubidium> maybe one of the ottdcoop games?
12:02:12 <eekee> ok mine shuld be up: eekee's tester
12:03:39 <eekee> $10920146574 btw, £5460073287
12:04:01 <dihedral> yeah - not doing any multiplication yet
12:04:08 <dihedral> the euro is misleading i know
12:04:31 <dihedral> i took that out (multiplying) to see the retrieved values
12:04:32 <SmatZ> dihedral: maybe you could add the alt attribute to img tags
12:04:48 <SmatZ> i dont know what do those icons mean
12:05:10 <dihedral> same icons as on openttd.org/servers.php
12:05:19 <SmatZ> maybe because it is a dedicated server
12:05:19 <dihedral> dedicated and nondedicated
12:05:54 <SmatZ> just a suggestion :) I started moving my mouse over those images and waited for some text
12:05:55 <dihedral> the dark background aint all that helpful
12:06:18 <dihedral> alt is only displayed if the image cannot be retrieved
12:06:50 <dihedral> thank you very much eekee Rubidium and SmatZ
12:07:21 <dihedral> what a pain... :-) but i think i shall document it for others
12:07:37 <dihedral> others = other php users who run into trouble with 64 bit integers
12:08:12 <SmatZ> dihedral: yes, you are right :)
12:09:44 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 10264
12:09:44 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by truelight :: r10264 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2007-06-22 09:44:21 UTC)
12:09:44 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 10265
12:09:44 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 10266
12:09:45 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: forgot to add texteff.hpp to the project files
12:09:46 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by truelight :: r10265 /trunk/src (4 files) (2007-06-22 10:57:53 UTC)
12:09:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Feature: allow double-clicking on certain places: build-vehicle and town-action
12:09:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r10266 /trunk (31 files in 4 dirs) (2007-06-22 11:58:59 UTC)
12:09:50 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Codechange: keep track of the origin, time of travel and accumulated feeder share (transfers) of individual pieces of cargo. This means that cargo isn't thrown on a big pile when it's put in a station or unloaded at a station, however the GUI does not reflect these changes yet so you will not actually see it.
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12:14:14 <eekee> Yay we getting cargo packets?
12:15:10 <eekee> Sacro: currently, when you have a transfer station with multiple feeders, the cargo gets mixed up. I think it all seems to come from wherever the last train came from
12:15:32 <Sacro> eekee: yes, it gets set to the destination station
12:15:42 <Sacro> so if cargo from a, b and c gets dropped at d
12:15:50 <Sacro> when the train to e comes, it all looks like it started at d
12:16:36 <Rubidium> and now it still looks (gui-wise) similarly, but the game backend handles it properly
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12:20:32 <Phazorx> has a bug for screewed up end of game picute been submitted already?
12:21:17 <Rubidium> afaik it's already fixed
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12:23:15 <Phazorx> Rubidium: just checking, have not seen that ebfore
12:27:47 <SmatZ> I looked at it, it is an interesting bug
12:29:10 <Rubidium> SmatZ: 119 is also interesting ;)
12:30:39 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, it is a really interesting bug :) I found problems with trains under bridges in trunk, too
12:31:08 <Rubidium> SmatZ: yes, but those are different (though maybe related)
12:31:59 <Rubidium> in your patch any train going under a bridge shows through, whereas in trunk only strange things seem to happen when a train goes over the bridge at the same time (IIRC)
12:32:59 <SmatZ> Rubidium: there many problems with heights - one level has height 8, tunnels have height 12, electrified railways have also some strange height, maybe even trains are higher than 8
12:33:38 <Rubidium> SmatZ: yes, it's one big mess :(
12:38:16 <SmatZ> Rubidium: http://88.146.45.107/ttd/lost_island - with trunk, this savegame is from one other bugreport - tiles 51x167, 48x173 and surrounding - unpause the game and watch, or move the Query tool around these tiles
12:38:53 <SmatZ> problem is how should all of it be rendered fast and correctly :)
12:39:43 <SmatZ> the track fence is drawn over the bridge's entrance, bridges have glitches
12:53:40 <Jerub> just made my first billion
12:54:11 <SmatZ> Rubidium: catenary is drawn even when it is disabled - if (_patches.disable_elrails) return; should move from line 406 to 398 in elrail.cpp
12:55:16 <SmatZ> Rubidium: * catenary at bridges ... but even after removing catenary, the glitches in the save remain :( buhehehehe :(
13:03:44 <dihedral> if only work was as interesting as ottd :-D
13:07:13 <Rubidium> SmatZ: the "problem" are the "magic" bridges themselves
13:15:28 <Sionide> hrm i still can't compile from svn
13:17:00 <SmatZ> Rubidium: in openttd, is is some magic all over there :)
13:17:18 <Smoovious> Sionide... what isn't working?
13:17:30 <Sionide> Smoovious, just trying again to get some errors
13:19:27 <Sionide> all is fine, till clear_cmd.cpp
13:20:21 <glx> search the lines with <<<<< >>>>> or =====
13:23:20 <Smoovious> ya... unresolved conflict perhaps? ... if so, svn couldn't decide how it should be merged so gotta do it manuallly
13:28:57 <Sionide> what if i just deleted my /svn/ directory and downloaded the source again, would it work then?
13:29:48 <peter1138> easier to just revert
13:30:53 <Sionide> i wanna have a try with timetables and stuff
13:32:55 <SmatZ> peter1138: please, how do I revert using svn? I have tried a lot of things and I feel really dumb now :)
13:34:00 <peter1138> to recursively revert everything
13:35:05 <Sionide> svn: Not enough arguments provided; try 'svn help' for more info
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13:36:08 <SmatZ> peter1138: I feel even more dumb now, thanks :D I can't understand how could I miss that
13:36:25 <Maedhros> Sionide: you need the full stop at the end
13:36:26 <SmatZ> I was reverting at openttd directory, not in trunk directory...
13:36:44 <SmatZ> so I got 'svn' directory skipped, oh...
13:42:39 <SmatZ> sometimes the TAB key doesn't work ( I am using linux ) - is it problem in my system or in openttd?
13:44:03 <TrueBrain> what do you think it should do?
13:44:31 <SmatZ> it makes the game run faster
13:44:41 <Maedhros> in debug mode that's shift instead
13:45:00 <Maedhros> (which is pretty annoying when typing, or trying to estimate the costs of things...)
13:45:11 <TrueBrain> I totally agree with Maedhros
13:45:16 <glx> because alt-tab to switch to debugger ?
13:45:44 <TrueBrain> that always has been the main argument
13:45:50 <TrueBrain> which I still think sucks :p But oh well :)
13:45:52 <TrueBrain> you get used to it :p
13:46:15 <SmatZ> well, Alt+Tab doesn't work for me anyway when if fullscreen mode...
13:46:16 <eekee> are the keybindings configurable anywhere?
13:47:12 <eekee> wonder if they can be read in from a file
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14:09:01 <mic> patch build_under_slopes against trunk is available :)
14:09:48 <mic> will appreciate a lot if somebody will try to play with it :)
14:14:02 <SmatZ> mic it is a nice patch, but there is a graphical glitch when you lower the land under some factory
14:18:36 <SmatZ> mic : got segfault, I don't know if it is because of your patch
14:19:20 <SmatZ> I tried to lower some land
14:19:28 <SmatZ> i will run with debugging enabled
14:19:40 <mic> yes try debug_level map=5
14:19:54 <mic> i need a way to reproduce bug :)
14:22:42 <SmatZ> 0x00000000004d308d in GetSlopeTileh_Track (tile=22422, tileh=SLOPE_SE) at /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp:1787
14:22:42 <SmatZ> /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp:1787:55644:beg:0x4d308d
14:23:26 <mic> it is better screen with what you tried to lower
14:27:12 <peter1138> - if (valid & rail_bits) return _price.terraform;
14:27:12 <peter1138> + if ( valid & rail_bits)
14:27:12 <peter1138> + return _price.terraform;
14:27:47 <peter1138> - default: NOT_REACHED();
14:27:47 <peter1138> + default: return -1;
14:29:29 <peter1138> ok, strange defines all over the place...
14:30:43 <mic> it run into NOT_REACHED(); sometimes and got crash
14:30:55 <mic> or may not run, at least it runned before
14:31:04 <peter1138> it's like that for a reason
14:31:28 <glx> it shouldn't go into NOT_REACHED()
14:31:40 <mic> a lot of functions crash on incorrect input
14:31:41 <peter1138> ok, all the defines have got to go
14:32:02 <mic> i feed incorrect inputm i should get error, not crash
14:32:02 <peter1138> GIGO: don't give them incorrect input
14:32:31 <peter1138> big problem: DC_EXEC isn't checked
14:33:10 <peter1138> you do the tile changes even if it's just estimating the cost
14:33:21 <mic> but it does not do anything actually
14:33:51 <SmatZ> what I tried - the white dot
14:34:36 <mic> it does not change any height actually - it return all back
14:35:32 <Thomas[NL]> there is something wrong with the stations rating in the latest nightly; every cargo gets rated
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14:36:35 <mic> about NOT_REACHED(): i think i can return it back and test, because (as i hope) i dont have incorrect input anymore
14:36:51 <Thomas[NL]> every cargo's rating is 69% except the one you're actually using
14:37:35 <mic> SmatZ: excuse me, but where is white dot? :)
14:37:53 <peter1138> i see lots of SetTIleHeight()... so clearly it does change heights
14:38:22 <SmatZ> mic :) the little white dot next to the just lowered piece of land at the end of the tubular bridge with train
14:39:30 <mic> it sets heights from cache, measure several values, then set it back --- the function does nothing itself except returning 0/1, cost and error_message
14:39:33 <SmatZ> you may download the savegame and try to lewer whole screen, it will hang
14:41:01 <peter1138> if it doesn't set any heights, how does it ever do anything?
14:42:21 <mic> eh :) i meant it sets, and then sets it back :)
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14:46:38 <mic> SmatZ: you lower before it only tile to left?
14:48:10 <SmatZ> mic the other side of the entracne, x-1
14:49:24 <peter1138> i still think that is bad, though
14:49:36 <peter1138> no way to determine it without changing the map?
14:50:03 <mic> all functions i use see requires real cell (TileIndex)
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14:51:20 <mic> SmatZ: x-1 from what cell?
14:51:53 <SmatZ> from the lowered cell at the end of the bridge
14:53:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
14:53:46 <mic> still dont understand what you lowered :) you lower 2 cells?
14:55:49 <mic> sorry, but lowering white dot, you lowered *only* cell at x-1?
14:56:01 <mic> *before lowering white dot
14:56:25 <SmatZ> when I try to lower the white dot
14:56:48 <mic> ok thanks for explanation :)
14:57:33 <Sacro> how does OpenTTD do color remapping?
14:58:35 <mic> it says "would result in incorrect track", it means i need find bugs in GetSlopeFoundation
15:01:41 <peter1138> Sacro: it remaps colours
15:02:00 <mic> peter1138: i think it will not produce errors, except if openttd is multitheaded there several threads will do something with the map
15:02:45 <peter1138> it has a load of tables that state what colour index should be mapped to what colour
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15:13:15 <Brianetta> Maedhros: You live about £5 away from me on the train.
15:13:32 <peter1138> Are you some kind of... stalker!?
15:14:48 <Brianetta> I wonder if he's coming to the meet
15:14:55 <Brianetta> We could have such a party on the train
15:15:04 <Brianetta> and Maedhros makes four
15:15:36 <Sacro> lolman: you should get an earlier train
15:16:05 <Brianetta> Helen and I will be staying overnight in Birmingham
15:16:35 <Brianetta> Train tickets, hotel reservation, the works
15:16:55 <Sacro> I have my train tickets sorted
15:17:06 <Brianetta> You'll need a packed lunch
15:17:20 <Brianetta> It's that or go hungry, because the train's shop isn't cheap
15:18:04 <peter1138> Why, are you staying in the train all day?
15:18:19 <Brianetta> Have you even tried getting to noon without snacking?
15:18:31 <Brianetta> That's what a packed lunch is for: Eating over the course of a morning
15:18:40 <Brianetta> You go to a shop at about lunch time for a top-up
15:19:15 <Sacro> i was gonna get something at the stations
15:19:18 <Brianetta> Travelling. It makes one hungry
15:19:26 <Sacro> snack before i leave home
15:19:37 <Sacro> snack again at Sheffield
15:19:39 <Brianetta> Pop to the supermarket for a pasty and a Mars bar
15:19:50 <Brianetta> Station shops? Not cheap
15:20:09 <Sacro> i'll try and see if they do ex staff discount
15:20:11 <Brianetta> They're authorised to discount you?
15:20:53 <Brianetta> The only thing we buy from the station is a pasty from The Pasty Shop
15:21:07 <Brianetta> Might be pricey, but there's nowhere cheaper for a lamb & mint pasty
15:21:34 <Brianetta> Oh, and the trains down through Newcastle are always out of change
15:21:55 <Brianetta> because all the English coming home from Scotland are desperately trying to dispose of Scottish banknotes
15:22:35 <Sacro> i dunno if there will be anywhere much open at that time in town for food
15:23:40 <Brianetta> At what time? Half ten?
15:24:43 <Brianetta> There will be plenty of places open from 8
15:25:27 <Brianetta> I need to make sure I have a recent nightly on my laptop
15:25:36 <Brianetta> I only have 0.5.2 on there at the moment
15:25:41 <mic> peter1138: is it ok that it changes height? if it is not multithread it cannt break anything i think
15:25:44 <Brianetta> and I want to give timetables a whirl
15:31:13 <Sacro> Brianetta: i will try and rememer to do an svn up
15:33:36 <dihedral> Brianetta: thanks a lot for that thread post
15:33:46 <dihedral> that is a pretty huge compliment :-)
15:34:34 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
15:36:04 * Smoovious thinks the last patch he posted probably has the best chance of the ones he posted, of actually getting comitted. :D
15:36:25 <Smoovious> kept small, littlle room for tweaing. :P
15:37:49 <dihedral> Brianetta: though i would not agree with the "more useful" as comparing the 2 is not doable - they both have their place and do different things
15:38:07 <Smoovious> dihedral... which thread?
15:38:36 <dihedral> OpenTTDLib will never be able to do anything near what autopilot does
15:39:26 <Brianetta> dihedral: Well, mine's mostly used to do things like ppcis.org/nightly
15:39:32 <Brianetta> so yes, they're comparable
15:39:45 <Brianetta> although mine's usefully embeddable into tcl/tk applications like autopilot
15:40:14 <Brianetta> That page is written in Tcl and is a CGI script
15:40:51 <dihedral> The requested URL /nightly was not found on this server.
15:41:01 <Brianetta> that was th eold url
15:41:18 <Brianetta> I forgot when I was for a moment
15:42:16 <peter1138> Out of date av8w :D
15:42:19 <dihedral> though - a though that i think is amazingly interesting (as usual admin side thinking)
15:42:35 <dihedral> would be a rcon socket (udp or tcp - dont care)
15:42:42 <Brianetta> peter1138: I know, I know. I don't update the grfs often.
15:42:54 <peter1138> Indeed. People would only complain.
15:43:25 <dihedral> so that one could telnet to (for example only)
15:43:41 <dihedral> have the output there and be able to execute rcon commands
15:44:03 <Brianetta> dihedral: You can use telnet and screen...
15:44:27 <Brianetta> Making an rcon socket a you suggest is trivial
15:44:43 <Phazorx> that would be nice actually
15:44:50 <Brianetta> in fact, the IRC interface of autopilot has it
15:44:55 <Phazorx> cuz access to your personal server Brianetta is too much power
15:45:23 <Brianetta> Touqen: Personally, I'm an SSH user, but I was explicily describing a telnet-like interface, and telnet is most telnet-like
15:45:59 <Brianetta> You can quite easily shoce a dedicated server into inetd
15:46:02 <Touqen> I just kind of jumped in in the middle of the conversation without knowing anything about what is actually being discussed.
15:46:09 <dihedral> if openttd would provide such a vulnerability?
15:46:16 <Brianetta> then you telnet to the port, and the dedicated server is started.
15:46:26 <Brianetta> You stay on there, because when you disconnect, the dedicated server quits.
15:47:06 <dihedral> Brianetta: that aint exactly a good thing :-D
15:47:07 <Brianetta> Great in a LAN environment where you jump on and off testing games out.
15:47:40 <Brianetta> dihedral: The interface you want would be best done with expect
15:47:52 <Brianetta> which means that the easiest way to do it is to modify autopilot
15:48:06 <Brianetta> have it listen to a socket
15:48:16 <Brianetta> make an event handler identical to the IRC one
15:48:36 <Brianetta> well, the IRC one offers no fedback to rcon
15:48:55 <Brianetta> because telling which lines of server output were the output of a specific command isn't trivial
15:49:28 <dihedral> a lot of other games have the possibility of accepting rcons over udp
15:50:22 <Brianetta> autopilot is currently getting a Tk interface
15:50:23 <dihedral> any specific reason openttd does not?
15:50:41 <Brianetta> I might expand that to some tcp client
15:50:53 <dihedral> now that sounds amazing
15:50:56 <mic> peter1138: i have restored NOT_REACHED()
15:51:14 <Brianetta> I'd have to write a simple protocol
15:51:34 <Brianetta> Probably just dumping all of the text flow to/from the dedicated server
15:52:27 <mic> dont mess up with my conspiracy :)
15:53:01 <dihedral> would it not be an idea to grab the souce of screen
15:53:17 <dihedral> and modify it to do what you do with tcl?
15:53:44 <dihedral> just a comment from someone who does not know
15:54:46 <stillunknown> Rubidium: lot's of spare time recently?
15:57:31 <Brianetta> dihedral: It's good
15:57:45 <Brianetta> Writing the parsers for the UDP protocol will save a lot of people a lot of work.
15:57:51 <Brianetta> I know how tedious it is
15:57:57 <mic> i suggest commit every existing patch stupidly and find bugs upon impact %)
15:58:03 <Brianetta> Especially if you support numerous versions of the protocol
15:58:13 <Brianetta> because the docs ain't that hot
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16:03:29 <dihedral> on my way home... shall be with you in about an hour again :-)
16:08:46 *** Chris82 has joined #openttd
16:09:01 <Chris82> once again I have a compiling error question ;) *g*
16:09:08 <Chris82> if (v->cargo.Count() >= v->cargo_cap / 2) base += _wagon_full_adder[img];
16:09:13 <Chris82> on this line and two others
16:09:28 <Chris82> I get the error: signed/unsigned mismatch (warning treated as error)
16:09:50 <Chris82> r10267, didn't change anything in this line from trunk
16:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> then one variable i unsigned and the other one signed...
16:10:23 <Chris82> yeah that's what I can see from the message but why do I get it?
16:10:31 <Chris82> is this error in the trunk?
16:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> try a clean checkout?
16:11:54 <Sug> should the station ratings window be displaying all cargoes, even though it has never had them?
16:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a feeling it's related to r10266
16:12:47 <Chris82> the error is also in a clean checkout
16:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sug: you were not meant :)
16:13:19 <Chris82> 3>..\src\economy.cpp(1589) : error C2220: warning treated as error - no 'object' file generated
16:13:19 <Chris82> 3>..\src\economy.cpp(1589) : warning C4018: '<' : signed/unsigned mismatch
16:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: then try to revert to r10265 and check that
16:13:29 <Chris82> is the complete error
16:13:56 <Maedhros> it's one of those things that msvc bitches about and gcc doesn't. most of us use gcc, so we don't notice ;)
16:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sug: it's probably a bug
16:14:33 <Ev> why "signed/unsigned mismatch" is treated as error?
16:14:42 <Chris82> but can't I set MSVC to ignore warnings or don't treat them as errors?
16:14:48 <Sug> thought so, but never hurts to check. I cant be the only one to see that
16:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ev: because MSVC is set to treat all warnings as errors
16:14:57 <Chris82> r10265 compiles fine btw
16:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sug: you're not :)
16:15:15 <Chris82> I use Visual Studio 2005
16:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: workaround: add typecasts in the if()
16:16:53 <Chris82> I'm just checking if there's a fix for MSVC don't want to change the OTTD code
16:17:09 <Ev> but it does not treats warnings as errors
16:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, remove the flag at "treat warnings as errors"
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16:17:42 <Chris82> So if you have as example : "int <= unsigned int" condition you must replace with : "int <= (int) unsigned int" < pfff :(
16:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: more correctly it would be if(v_int < 0 || (uint) v_int <= v_uint)
16:20:49 <Chris82> Eddi: Where is an option "Treat warning as errors" can't find it?
16:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: i have no idea, but it is definitely there...
16:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: the problem is the representation of (int) -1 is the same as (uint) 0xFFFFFFF, so a literal check for < will fail on those two
16:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... an F missing
16:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> (assuming int being 32-bit)
16:24:04 <Ev> can i build trams in trunk?
16:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ev: yes, if you have a tram grf
16:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> mostly because trams were not part of TTD
16:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> i also do not know of a generic tram set that would fit with the default vehicle set
16:30:03 <Chris82> VC++ won't warn on int == unsigned int comparisons, but GCC will. IMO, GCC is right on that one, but it's a close call.
16:30:09 <Chris82> I don't understand that line from a posting
16:30:19 <Chris82> according to this I should get this warning in MSVC but in GCC
16:30:28 <Chris82> but you told me otherwise before or do I understand something wrong?
16:30:48 <SmatZ> put comparisons into brackets
16:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was like the most unqualified comment i heard in a while...
16:31:35 <Chris82> I wouldn't call it wtf, but putting comparisons in brackets doesn't change the sentence' meaning
16:31:42 <Ev> Chris82: simply disable option "treat warnings as errors" and forget about anything other
16:31:55 <Chris82> well if I would just find that option somewhere :p
16:32:32 <Ev> "options -> compilation" something like that
16:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: that is totally different...
16:33:14 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: there is a defined C++ operator priority
16:33:27 <SmatZ> so MSVC shouldn't care in that case
16:33:31 <Chris82> I checked Tools > Options and like any submenu couldn't find it, either I'm blind or I don't know
16:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: like i said already, change the if(v_int <= v_uint) to if(v_int < 0 || (uint) v_int <= v_uint)
16:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: a) i know there is a operator precedence, and b) there is only one operator in Chris82's case
16:35:48 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: okaaaay i though you are talking about this -> more correctly it would be if(v_int < 0 || (uint) v_int <= v_uint)
16:35:48 <Chris82> that's a bad solution though, I don't want to change the original code just because of my compiler :p
16:36:02 <Chris82> I want to create a .diff file from the version I created so my daypatch gets added to trunk :p
16:36:09 <Chris82> I don't want MSVC "hacks" in there :D
16:37:09 <Chris82> the joke is, I find 1000s of posts saying something about a "treat warnings as errors" switch, but nowhere they write where that switch is
16:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, a) the "hack" is definitely correct, b) some kind of change will be done anyway and c) the msvc project is part of the source code also
16:37:32 <Chris82> and replies like "ah I found it" without saying where it is, is something I totally dislike lol
16:37:59 <Chris82> well ok I'll change it then, I need to test my patch with the modifications I made
16:40:35 <Ev> it is first google's result
16:40:53 <Chris82> just asked my bro and he sees the same warning/error
16:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe gcc 4 automatically replaces it with something like i did...
16:41:22 <Ev> To treat all compiler warnings as compilation errors
16:41:26 <Ev> With a project selected in Solution Explorer, on the Project menu, click Properties.
16:41:32 <Ev> Select the Treat all warnings as errors check box.
16:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> or it proves that the int var cannot be negative...
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16:47:08 <Chris82> I am blind today where the hell is there a compile tab lol :D
16:48:21 <dihedral> perhaps under c/c++?
16:49:39 <Chris82> thanks you saved my day :p
16:54:18 <Sacro> and i don't know how to use gdb
16:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: gdb openttd, run, bt
16:56:27 <Sacro> don't i have to compile it with a flag?
16:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> ./configure --enable-debug=1?
16:57:30 <Sacro> and now it's stopped making binares
16:57:55 * Chris82 missed the shudder party ;)
16:58:16 <Sacro> hmm, 0x090496a0 in CSpriteBase::init()
16:58:31 <oxygene_> disable optimization, add -g flag
17:00:36 <Sacro> 0x0804951b in CSpriteBase::init (this=0x804c34c, dir=0x804ad62 "data/ship")
17:00:36 <Sacro> 41 if(!mW) mW = mAnim[count].image->w; if(!mH) mH = mAnim[count].image->w;
17:01:12 <Touqen> I have 2800 in total assets!
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17:06:28 <Chris82> does anybody know where the initial value of industry production when starting a new game is calculated in the source?
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17:14:02 <Chris82> I think industry_cmd.cpp around line 1630
17:19:31 <stillunknown> Are aircraft linked vehicles?
17:20:07 <Rubidium> aircraft -> shadow -> rotor (when helicopter)
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17:22:51 <Ev> is it possible non-flat rail tracks combination?
17:23:14 <Smoovious> Chris82... yeah, I was gonna say that file too... was still looking for the exact spot, but it looks right
17:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ev: no, only straight tracks can be on slopes
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17:33:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10268 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: some old savegames could have the wrong bits unset (follow up of r10147)
17:34:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10269 /trunk/src/ (station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#912]: station ratings were shown for all cargos instead of only the cargos that have been transported.
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18:23:41 <Ailure> Is the nightly (somewhat) stable tonight? :)
18:24:01 <TrueBrain> if you want stable, use 0.5 :p
18:24:22 <Rubidium> Ailure: want to know, tomorrow we can probably tell you more ;)
18:24:43 <Ailure> I see that the assertion errors was fixed
18:24:50 <Chris82> I have a large game running with it
18:24:51 <Ailure> which was the problem with yesterdays nightly <<
18:25:17 <Chris82> r10269 with lots of patches
18:26:29 * Ailure runs the game at fast-forward with full animation off
18:26:54 <Ailure> seems like the memory corruption is fixed alright
18:27:16 <Ailure> kinda amusing looking at the game now
18:27:24 <Ailure> it spends most of the time at autosaving
18:28:21 <Chris82> btw is it allowed to post a kind of an integrated build (like MiniIN) on the forum?
18:28:28 <Chris82> I would ask the patch authors before of course
18:28:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10270 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: prefixed the loading indicator with an arrow, up meaning vehicle is loading, down meaning vehicle is unloading
18:29:06 <Ailure> I think you're allowed as long the source code is vaaible somewhere
18:29:26 <Chris82> I'd post a .diff file anyway, not the .exe
18:29:43 <Chris82> but the .diff containts patches not coded by me as well
18:30:11 <Chris82> another thing btw.... the loading indicators are not visible with transparent buildings
18:30:16 <Chris82> I don't really like that behaviour
18:30:18 <Ailure> Well the patches should come under same license as openTTD itself
18:30:28 <Ailure> Or at elast, from what I understand
18:30:33 <Chris82> if at all I'd lock it to transparent station signs
18:30:40 <Rubidium> Ev: look at the wiki for the coding style
18:30:48 <TrueBrain> Chris82: open up the transparency option dialog, and switch is off
18:31:09 <Ailure> jesus christ on a bike
18:31:18 <Ailure> I forgot what atrocity the orginal TT AI is
18:31:22 <TrueBrain> Chris82: it is the most right icon
18:32:18 <Ailure> especially with how it's unable to recycle existing infrastructure
18:32:22 <Ailure> leading to ugly road layouts in towns
18:34:21 <Ailure> hmm 20 years without a crash
18:34:24 <Ailure> that's stable enough for me
18:34:40 <Chris82> hehe did you have crashes on the previous versions?
18:34:49 <Chris82> I played the build from last night for around 35 years with no problem
18:34:51 <Ailure> yesterdays nightly was unstable
18:35:04 <Ailure> due to random memory corruption
18:35:17 <Ailure> which is unusual though
18:35:25 <Ailure> openTTD is one of the few open source projects
18:35:30 <Ailure> where the nightly is actually usable :p
18:35:57 <Chris82> hehe I love the nightlies :D easy to compile and great new features not in the "release" version
18:36:08 <Hendikins> That said, I find the SeaMonkey nightlies pretty usable.
18:36:22 <SmatZ> yes, trunk is now a bit MiniIN, taking some experimental features :)
18:36:39 <Rubidium> SmatZ: I do not agree with that statement
18:36:52 <TrueBrain> comparing trunk with MiniIN, auch...
18:37:01 <TrueBrain> talking about saying the wrong thing ;) Hehe :p
18:37:03 <Ailure> miniIN is a nightmare to play
18:37:11 <TrueBrain> not only to play :p
18:37:13 <Ailure> but also easy to crash
18:37:21 <Rubidium> in MiniIN all and every patch you would give would go in without proper review
18:37:29 <Ailure> nightmare to maintance
18:37:32 <Ailure> which is why it was abondened
18:38:07 <Chris82> I added all of the cool miniin features to the current nightly, there is a lot of buggy and not very useful stuff in miniin tho
18:38:28 <Chris82> but Daylength and the Distant Station Patch are really useful in my opinion
18:38:44 <Ailure> which why i'm glad that the strict guidelines are there
18:38:56 <Ailure> I seen open source projects which is very happy to take in every patch in existance
18:38:58 <Chris82> probably a reason why the nightlies are so good :)
18:39:02 <Ailure> such as some private server project
18:39:06 <Ev> about the coding style again:
18:39:14 <Ailure> where the people behind it didn't even think of bugtesting before commiting
18:39:22 <Ev> unclear where condition ends
18:39:37 <Ailure> there are bugs that are obvious within five seconds of gameplay
18:39:52 <TrueBrain> should have been dear
18:40:13 <Chris82> well now you killed him already ;)
18:41:25 <SmatZ> please excuse my words about miniin :) just I think there are many new things integrated - higher bridges, loading indicators, trams, timetables, cargo packets
18:41:54 <Ailure> higher bridges been around for awhile
18:41:59 <Ailure> unless i'm missing something
18:42:16 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you meant to say that all those features we not in MiniIN, right?
18:43:11 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, but there is not MiniIN anymore
18:43:32 <Chris82> I just write to a few patch authors if I may post an "integrated" build with their patches
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10271 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt main_gui.cpp): -Fix r9563: move the Transparency Option menu item to the place it should have been in the first place: Option Menu, not Map Menu (go figure :p)
18:43:41 <SmatZ> so thigs get earlier tested in the trunk, don't they?
18:43:44 <Chris82> I'll just post a .diff file but it will containt quite a few nice patches
18:43:46 <TrueBrain> finally I am no longer annoyed by looking my ass of for this menu-item :)
18:44:06 <Chris82> haha thanks for that ;)
18:44:07 <Ailure> haha why wasn't it moved earlier?
18:44:12 <Chris82> I just looked my ass off myself
18:44:12 <Ailure> I actually forgot that it was in the wrong place
18:44:38 <Ailure> I remember that in orginal TT
18:44:39 <Rubidium> SmatZ: MiniIN was something of a non-official OTTD developer (absolutely not comparable with the -mm linux kernel)
18:44:50 <Ailure> options stuff was under the help symbol
18:44:54 <Chris82> damn that menu rocks =O =O
18:44:58 <Chris82> I didn't even see this before
18:45:20 <Ailure> the About openTTD window
18:45:24 <Ailure> scrolls faster if you move around your mouse
18:45:39 <Chris82> I just noticed the same
18:45:51 <Chris82> it starts quickly, and when I stop doing anything it's like freeze-frame-view
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18:48:50 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: great news, I didn't know about that option till now :)
18:50:11 <SmatZ> wow, there is a Extra viewport thing under the map menu
18:50:43 <Ailure> I almost only use that to keep track of UFO's that have landed
18:50:58 <Ailure> the few times I have disasters on
18:51:04 <Ailure> I usually turn off sa the huge ufo's appear
18:51:10 <Ailure> as that's the only disaster I find annoying
18:51:11 <Sacro^> since when was that transparency gui there?
18:51:19 <Ailure> mostly becuse it can take lots of time between announcment of UFO landing
18:51:22 <Ailure> and the explosion related to it
18:51:34 <Ailure> due to that bomber taking it's time
18:51:48 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 9563
18:51:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by peter1138 :: r9563 /trunk (23 files in 4 dirs) (2007-04-05 07:49:04 UTC)
18:51:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Feature: Add more finer control to transparency options, including a new toolbar, accessible from the map menu or Ctrl X. Patch by Wolf01.
18:52:11 <Chris82> whoa =O and I didn't see that before
18:52:15 <Chris82> should read the log more closely
18:54:19 <Sacro^> TrueBrain: do you just memorise the logs?
18:54:31 <stillunknown> Anyone familiar with the two tick train system?
18:54:46 <TrueBrain> Sacro^: did you notice the -Fix rXXXX in my commit?
19:01:17 <Smoovious> <Chris82> r10269 with lots of patches <--- network game?
19:01:55 <Chris82> I test patches and grfs with my brother there
19:02:03 <Chris82> single player is no good way to test patches in my opinion
19:02:30 <Smoovious> not in the later stages of a patch anyway
19:03:06 <Chris82> and except for the grass, industries and non-passenger trucks there are no original grfs used in that game I think
19:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: you happen to have an updated version of the PBS patch?
19:04:05 <Smoovious> ah, IN... yeah, don't have that one
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19:05:03 <Smoovious> will pass on the game... I tend to use road vehicles heavily, and the mismatched vehicles bug me. :)
19:06:05 <Chris82> the HOV UK trucks are nice :) I prefer them to the original busses
19:06:30 <Chris82> and I primarily use the DB SET and AV8 set to improve realism
19:06:42 <Chris82> especially trains become a lot more expensive with this set and they look awesome :D
19:07:50 <Smoovious> always try to use av8... it is a must-have for all my games... (I tend to use vtol craft heavily too :) )
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19:10:00 <Prof_Frink> Vertical Take Off & Landing
19:12:04 <Chris82> oh I never ever use helis in the game :D
19:12:20 <Smoovious> got some issues with the vehicle queueing in the helistation tho
19:13:01 <Ailure> usually VTOL is used for aircraft that acts like planes in the air but lands and starts like helicopters
19:13:59 <Prof_Frink> I'd rather have a Harrier, personally
19:14:06 <Smoovious> yeah, but it still covers helicopters... and since zepps are in t he game too, saying helis will still be the wrong term... vtol is the most approriate
19:14:31 <Smoovious> that one plane that takes off vertically would be good to have in the game
19:14:35 <Ailure> I didn't know there was a term for aircrafts with short landing and takeoff
19:14:35 <Chris82> that thing looks funny :D
19:14:43 <Smoovious> not t he harrier, but ... osprey?
19:14:53 <Ailure> which would describe all "small" aircraft in the game
19:15:25 <Prof_Frink> There's also VSTOL
19:15:42 <Touqen> violently short takeoff and landing :D
19:16:06 <Smoovious> yeah... like old NASA before the shuttle
19:16:30 <Touqen> Like 87 degree ascent angle
19:16:35 <Chris82> can I add a tram grf to the game load a savegame and then use trams in it
19:16:40 <Chris82> or do I need to start a new game for that?
19:17:04 <Touqen> You'd probably have more luck activating the grf while in the game
19:17:18 <Ailure> just open newGRF settings during the game
19:18:18 <Ailure> might work, might crash
19:18:49 <Ailure> might require you to type "resetengines" after you applied the changes too
19:18:59 * Touqen personally has never had a crash as a result of a midgame grf change
19:19:03 <Touqen> but i'm just awesome like that
19:19:13 <Ailure> it probably depends on the GRF I guess
19:20:15 <Ailure> It can break a game in some cases at least
19:20:25 <Ailure> such as removing a trainset from a game that uses it
19:20:41 <Ailure> I seen trains turning into trains without a... engine.
19:20:56 <Ailure> kinda amusing, but also means they won't move at all
19:21:11 <Ailure> but a rather stupid one
19:21:53 <Chris82> do Trams replace some Trains actually? or are they completely added without replacing anything?
19:22:03 <Touqen> Chris82: Depends on the grf
19:22:25 <Touqen> TTDP grfs replace vehicles but openttd can have them be completely separate
19:23:01 <Ailure> opened a game that used the UKRS
19:23:12 <Ailure> then removed UKRS from it's newGRF settings
19:23:17 <Ailure> the results weren't pretty :)
19:23:34 <Ailure> trains got their engines replaced with a grain hopper
19:24:02 <Touqen> They are some fast non moving trains.
19:24:17 <Ailure> it was kinda funny too
19:24:25 <Ailure> they all started to slow down slowlyh
19:24:34 <Ailure> so there was a nice glide effect too
19:24:43 <Touqen> yay realistic acceleration
19:25:04 <Chris82> what is the x3 at the end of the waggons?
19:25:24 <SmatZ> well, this is the case when wagons out of a depot don't have any loco
19:25:31 <Touqen> Chris82: wait multiplier
19:25:35 <Ailure> it's a weight modifier
19:25:49 <Ailure> makes the cargo in the tran
19:26:07 <Touqen> So it makes for more "realism"
19:26:28 <Touqen> And makes multiple head units more purposeful
19:26:45 <Ailure> more challange at least
19:26:52 <Chris82> oh ic :) with the DBSet you have the same effect due to trains whith much lower hp
19:27:04 <Touqen> Yea. It depends on the set though.
19:27:05 <Chris82> you can't build 50 waggon trains anymore :D unless you put 6 engines on them
19:27:27 <Ailure> I sometimes make really big goods trains with two engines in UKRS set
19:27:46 <Ailure> though you can get away with one engine with one of the futuruistic engines
19:27:54 <Chris82> unfortunately the UKRS changes some things I don't want changed, that's why I don't use it
19:27:58 <Chris82> but there are also cool features in it
19:28:52 <Chris82> I think the most powerful engine (for non passenger transports) is 9500 PS in the DB Set
19:28:58 <Chris82> but most trains are way below 5k
19:29:53 <Ailure> usually sets have the more powerful trains for freight
19:30:01 <Ailure> while faster trains are for passengers
19:30:10 <Touqen> just like... real life
19:31:00 <Chris82> the transrapid in the set is almost 20k hp I think :D lol
19:31:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10272 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (FS#916): remove more invalid characters from savegame names
19:32:51 <Ailure> I think it was 10K hp as well
19:33:50 <Ailure> the cargo maglev is 14,000 HP though
19:34:05 <Ailure> I remember reading on Transrapids page
19:34:12 <Ailure> that maglev is unsuitable for bulk cargo :)
19:34:21 <Chris82> I am back at play now :D just added a few new patches
19:38:41 <Ailure> Says that goods containers are fine
19:39:08 <Ailure> but bulk cargo like coal, ore, steel and oil isn't suitable
19:40:41 <SmatZ> hmm, why do we use trains in ottd, when oil pipeline would be more efficient?
19:41:01 <Ailure> Well, some of friends complained as soon they couldn't use maglev to transport coal. :)
19:41:01 <Chris82> hmm why do they say it's not reasobable to transport oil at 500 kmh ?
19:41:03 <peter1138> because you can't build an oil pipeline
19:41:15 <Chris82> I mean it's too heavy ok, but if it would be possible why shouldn't it be reasonable
19:41:29 <dihedral> OpenTTDLib update is done :-)
19:41:31 <Ailure> pipelines wouldn't always be suitable though
19:41:50 <peter1138> heh, simutrans has powerlines you can build, iirc
19:42:08 <Ailure> I belive crude oil is transported by ship from oil rigs
19:42:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10273 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt ukrainian.txt): -Change: remove the strings removed in r10270 from the translations
19:42:36 <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: You can build simulated pipelines if you're cunning
19:42:37 <Ailure> though there's oil rigs with pipelines as well
19:43:11 <SmatZ> Prof_Frink: :-) funny idea, professor :)
19:45:50 <stillunknown> Anyone familiar with the UpdateTrainSpeed function?
19:50:10 <stillunknown> I changed the train handling from the two calls per tick, to only one.
19:51:10 <stillunknown> And i reduced the final bitshift in that function from 8 to 7.
19:51:14 <peter1138> now you've got half speed trains
19:51:27 <stillunknown> So the amount of calls to the movement code is doubled.
19:51:55 <stillunknown> Only side effect is, that some trains (not all) appear to go faster, little slower, faster, etc
19:54:55 <stillunknown> And it seems to happen on trains that go slower than 90 km/h.
19:54:57 <peter1138> yeah, cos UpdateTrainSpeed is called less often
19:55:02 <peter1138> that's how realistic it is :D
19:56:51 <stillunknown> I think it's more likely that the UpdateTrainSpeed is giving slightly different speeds every call.
19:57:37 <peter1138> no, updatetrainspeed keeps track of fractions internally.
19:57:56 <peter1138> therefore when you modify its return result, something doesn't match up
19:59:24 <stillunknown> if (!(v->direction & 1)) spd = spd * 3 >> 2;
19:59:34 <stillunknown> is this viewport geometry related?
20:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10274 /branches/0.5/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9961, r10023, r10028, r10030, r10038, r10147):
20:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Some bits were unset when loading old TTD savegames when they shouldn't be unset (r10147)
20:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Sprite resulting from '?' substitution was reloaded into the cache entry
20:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: for SPR_IMG_QUERY instead of the original sprite cache entry. This resulted in
20:01:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: unaccounted missing sprite cache memory, and was exacerbated because the
20:01:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: original missing sprite was not cached, so it did it again and again and again.
20:02:20 <dihedral> Brianetta: check this out (IE will work better): nice example of autopilot & OpenTTDLib :-D
20:02:49 <peter1138> white text, white background!
20:03:18 <Ailure> not on IE 6.0... though you should really make it work on other browsers.
20:03:26 <Chris82> I see blue background
20:03:46 <Prof_Frink> Chris82: That's 'cause you're using Windows ME
20:03:50 <Ailure> yeah it's supposed to be blue
20:04:17 <peter1138> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
20:04:18 <Chris82> why don't you simply put the bgcolor in body?
20:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10275 /branches/0.5/ (6 files):
20:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10048, r10068, r10075, r10082, r10085, r10087):
20:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: "Deactivate Electrified Railways" did not work [FS#836] (10083)
20:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Memory leaks in the networking code [FS#846, FS#844] (r10082, r10075)
20:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Coverage area highlight was still show when it was turned off for docks [FS#835] (r10068)
20:04:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not use override engine type for articulated wagon parts (r10048)
20:04:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10276 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
20:04:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: made a counter based on milliseconds and independent of the game-state to base double-click and TGP Generation Process on
20:04:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: renamed _timer_counter to _palette_animation_counter, as that is what it is
20:04:36 <dihedral> once you look at the source you will know why
20:04:38 <SmatZ> in Links it displays great - even the title icon is centered!
20:05:25 <stillunknown> peter1138: Then what is it?
20:05:44 <Chris82> <link href="/styles/global-sbc-2007-style.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" /> < at such a line to the <head></head> section
20:06:02 <Chris82> and make a css file with body { bgcolor:#xxxxxx} xxx being your color in hex
20:06:15 <Chris82> that'll work with every normal browser
20:07:07 <peter1138> mmm, html comments inside css
20:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10277 /branches/0.5/ (9 files):
20:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (10116, r10128, r10130, r10131, r10137, r10138):
20:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Feature: console command to get the current game date (r10137)
20:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When you got a sufficiently small resolution, there is a possibility for a division by zero when a sound is played (r10138)
20:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When removing a dock, a ship will always try to reach the old location of the dock even when it cannot anymore because it the old location of the dock is now land instead of water [FS#810] (r10131)
20:07:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: SetCurrentGrfLangID returned the wrong language ids for most languages (r10130)
20:07:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10278 /trunk/src/video/ (cocoa_v.mm sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10276: make the _realtime_tick less demanding on the CPU
20:08:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10279 /branches/0.5/ (5 files): (log message trimmed)
20:08:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10139, r10153, r10154, r10155, r10165, r10187):
20:08:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not make a 270 degree turn on the international airport when a 90 degree turn is enough (r10187)
20:08:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when trying to get the aircraft movement state of an aircraft going to a just deleted airport [FS#874] (r10165)
20:08:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Airports did not flood when there are aircraft on the airport [FS#601] (r10155)
20:08:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Some vehicles were not drawn when having a high resolution and a high zoom-out level [FS#870] (r10154)
20:08:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicles disappear when crossing certain tiles [FS#869] (r10153)
20:09:10 <SmatZ> dihedral: the <img ... / > are not displayed, the <img ... > (without slash) are displayed
20:09:41 <SmatZ> maybe I have broken browser :)
20:09:44 <peter1138> basically the html is fucked. but never mind.
20:10:16 <dihedral> as it aint my website and aint my file there aint anything i could do about that blue / white page
20:10:26 <SmatZ> dihedral: at your page, only the screenshots are displayed
20:10:41 <Chris82> <img with a / is xhtml not html
20:10:43 <dihedral> like i said - aint my page :-)
20:11:38 <SmatZ> dihedral: sorry then :)
20:11:54 <dihedral> no - thank you for wanting to help :-)
20:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10280 /branches/0.5/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10109, r10219, r10222, r10230, r10246, r10258):
20:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not look in every direction for tunnels when building one, one direction is enough (r10258)
20:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Take the age of the front vehicle for station rating (r10246)
20:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Terraforming wipes out canals. Now you always have to remove the canal before terraforming, instead of "just" removing the canal [FS#594] (r10240)
20:12:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Only 2 trains could crash at one time as collision checking stopped on the first hit. This could technically cause desyncs in network games as the collision hash order is not guaranteed [FS#892] (r10222)
20:12:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Land under foundations was terraform when it shouldn't be terraformed [FS#882, FS#890] (r10219)
20:12:59 <dihedral> is there a standard time as in microseconds one game tick lasts for?
20:13:19 <Chris82> 74 TICKS = 2,22 seconds
20:13:41 <Rubidium> dihedral: there isn't
20:13:45 <Chris82> so 0,03 secs per ticks if you wanna know exactly
20:13:58 <dihedral> contradicting eachother...
20:14:18 <Rubidium> ok, it's about 30 ms per tick *if* you're not playing fast forward and *if* your computer doesn't run at 100% CPU
20:14:53 <Chris82> I was assuming that your PC can handle OpenTTD without full load
20:15:01 <peter1138> ~ 27ms per tick if you're playing TTD
20:15:07 <dihedral> i am more thinking of a cronjob
20:15:12 <dihedral> query games every 3 months
20:15:38 <kaan> ok, i go to work for a week and you guys make a mad amount of commits while im away :D good job guys :)
20:16:20 <peter1138> 16942 peter 25 0 95388 31m 7308 R 87.4 6.2 0:29.07 openttd
20:17:00 <Chris82> 87.4 is the CPU usage?
20:18:09 <peter1138> everything goes really slow when i have the company info window open
20:19:18 <dihedral> peter1138: any ships?
20:19:31 <dihedral> i find cpu usage goes up a mile once just a few ships are around
20:20:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10281 /branches/0.5/ (landscape.c video/win32_v.c):
20:20:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10186, r10229, r10251):
20:20:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] Do not mess desktop when using ALT-TAB [FS#876] (r10251, r10186)
20:20:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Cleanup: removed duplicate include (r10229)
20:21:18 <dihedral> anybody here fit with rrdtool?
20:21:24 <Chris82> what CPU do you have actually?
20:22:19 <Chris82> hmmm isn't 80% cpu with 550+ trains normal then?
20:24:15 <Chris82> hmmm no it can't be, I have 1% cpu with 600 trains
20:24:35 <Chris82> and that 1% is just shown once in a while, mostly it's 0
20:24:45 <dihedral> settings such as number of towns/industries
20:24:52 <Smoovious> <SmatZ> hmm, why do we use trains in ottd, when oil pipeline would be more efficient? <--- cuz we can't build pipelines in ottd?
20:25:20 <peter1138> Chris82: yes it's normal
20:25:29 <peter1138> i have no idea how you manage to have 1% cpu usage with 600 trains
20:25:45 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Run it on a soupercomputer
20:26:06 <peter1138> maybe you run 1 wagon trains or something
20:27:46 <Chris82> well they all have like 10 waggons on avarge I guess
20:27:52 <Chris82> I build no super long trains
20:28:00 <Chris82> and also most of my stations aren't very spread out
20:28:24 <Chris82> I just started a new game with my brother before and we plan on building 2000+ trains for stress testing the dedicated server
20:29:56 <stillunknown> Chris82: What kind of magic do you use?
20:30:05 <stillunknown> 1% cpu usage is impossible
20:31:04 <Hendikins> I call BS on it for obvious reasons.
20:31:07 <TrueBrain> nothing is impossible; it only takes a bit longer
20:31:22 <Chris82> it's what task manager tells me
20:31:44 <Chris82> maybe it's because we share these trains over two companies?
20:35:22 <Chris82> we don't have too many vehicles yet tho
20:35:48 <Hendikins> So what is chewing the 36%?
20:36:17 <Chris82> that's a bug in TortoiseSVN
20:38:10 <Chris82> just refresh the .png was to lazy to change the name
20:38:26 <peter1138> well 162+180 != 552
20:39:00 <peter1138> stillunknown: can you provide Chris82 with a link to the EvL savegame?
20:39:00 <Chris82> I know I said we just started a new game
20:39:07 <Hendikins> On a side note, I'll make sure to run 2048x2048 on dedicated.
20:39:26 <Chris82> I'll need to upload the game .exe and grfs as well unless the savegame won't work
20:41:21 <Phazorx> are you testing performance of something?
20:41:52 <Phazorx> peter1138: EvL is too close to "evil" btw :)
20:42:01 <Phazorx> peter1138: use SML test istead
20:42:05 <peter1138> Chris82 appears to have UBER PCs
20:42:10 <Phazorx> it has mroe tracks and trains
20:42:17 <Phazorx> ahh well let's slow it down a bit :)
20:42:26 <Phazorx> with 20 year old game :)
20:43:13 <Chris82> well it's a C2D E6600
20:43:16 <Chris82> that's not an uber PC
20:43:22 <Chris82> my brother has the same CPU
20:43:24 <Phazorx> 1 sek i'll give you the link
20:43:30 <Phazorx> i asume you have grfs?
20:43:39 <Chris82> and the dedi server has an X2 3800+
20:43:45 <Chris82> all PCs have 2 Gig Ram
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20:44:10 <Phazorx> sheer power of single core only
20:44:19 <Chris82> oh just found something interesting
20:44:33 <Chris82> when I start a 2048x2048 game CPU usage is 0 obviously after generating the map
20:44:37 <Hendikins> Which is why using a dedicated server for single player games on a dual core or CPU machine makes sense.
20:44:42 <Chris82> but when I hit fast forward it's 40$
20:45:14 <Chris82> well the dedicated server cpu usage is 1% with this game right now tho
20:45:15 <Phazorx> Hendikins: multiple games yes
20:45:45 <Phazorx> Chris82: thay that and go to south end station, and zoom out a bit :)
20:45:57 <kaan> Chris82: thats probably because windows is calculation the cpu usage a bit strangely on multi core
20:45:58 <Hendikins> Phazorx: If I'm doing a big game, it makes sense to separate it since ottd isn't multi-threaded.
20:46:02 <Hendikins> (for the most part)
20:46:16 <peter1138> Chris82: fast-foward is 'as fast as it'll go'
20:46:30 <Phazorx> kaan: btw... can i ask mingw question?
20:46:35 <kaan> peter1138: yes, on one core ;)
20:46:37 <Hendikins> Windows would be calculating that as "40% of 2 CPUs"
20:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> Hendikins: you have kind of an unconventional definition of "sense" :)
20:46:42 <Chris82> oh ic, I thought it's a fixed amount of fast forward
20:46:55 <Chris82> 40% is almost full load on one core
20:47:00 <Chris82> 50% is full load on one core
20:47:01 <Phazorx> kaan: i'm wondering if it is possible to do profiling within mingw
20:47:05 <Hendikins> Eddi|zuHause2: Not really. Each process can chew up a CPU to itself.
20:47:27 <Phazorx> Chris82: really, try that savegame
20:47:40 <Phazorx> it does require quite some power to run
20:47:42 <Hendikins> And given the jump in CPU use when I do scrolling on a 2048x2048 map, obviously there is a perf gain from separating it.
20:47:45 <kaan> Phazorx: I dont know, but probably yes.
20:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but one process chewing up one core, or two processes chewing up two cores with exactly the same calculations...
20:47:49 <Chris82> that savegame doesn't load
20:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is not really a lot of "sense" in there...
20:48:00 <Chris82> found unknow tag in savegame
20:48:10 <Phazorx> kaan: i'm inetresting in doing that, but not sure how to procede
20:48:11 <Chris82> wait I need to compile a standard exe I guess
20:48:24 <Phazorx> also not sure about validity of results
20:48:47 <Chris82> nope unknown tag in savegame
20:48:53 <Chris82> did you save it with an unpatched version?
20:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. some dual core processors have the ability to overclock one core if the other core is idle
20:49:07 <Phazorx> Chris82: it's regular 10170
20:49:09 <kaan> Phazorx: well you got me there, I dont even know how to do profiling on linux ;)
20:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> only that feature will never work in windows, because it constantly switches the processes between the cores
20:49:22 <Phazorx> kaan: i see, thanks anyway
20:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a funny unoptimisation :)
20:49:57 <Phazorx> wait, why would you switch procces ebtween cores?
20:50:02 <Chris82> Eddi: The EIST feature of the C2D downclocks the CPU to 1.63 GHz, it's only at full speed when I hit fast forward or generate a map for example
20:50:09 <Chris82> generating a map fully loads one core
20:50:11 <Phazorx> what happens to I/D level1 cache?
20:50:16 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: even windows can set processor affinity
20:50:45 <Chris82> yes that can help a lot if you want to run two performance hungry apps at the same time
20:50:51 <Phazorx> i'm surprized that game doesnt load for you Chris82
20:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> windows can do a lot of things... but the average user will never be able to enable those features
20:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i think they meanwhile provided a patch for the above...
20:53:10 <Chris82> I just compile a nightly without patches Phazorx
20:53:29 <Phazorx> patches shouldnt really prevent you from loading vanilla saves
20:53:45 <Phazorx> vice versa it wont work tho
20:53:58 <peter1138> they will if the patches aren't applied correctly, or just not updated
20:53:58 <Chris82> maybe I should've disabled grfs ?
20:54:11 <glx> Phazorx: you can do profiling using -pg and gprof
20:55:28 <glx> configure --enable-profiling does that
20:56:03 <Phazorx> and what about validity of results?
20:56:48 <glx> function calls should be the same in all env :)
20:57:09 <peter1138> and of course, only compare like with like
20:57:35 <Phazorx> i meant mingw, being sort of emulated environemnt
20:57:36 <Chris82> missing grf files have been disabled
20:57:43 <Chris82> that shouldn't be a problem Phazorx right?
20:57:43 <Phazorx> and gprof running withi it
20:57:50 <glx> mingw is not an emulated env
20:58:04 <kaan> let me see if i got this right, profiling is compiled into the exe? does it display in the console then?
20:58:04 <glx> mingw built exe are native exe
20:58:06 <Phazorx> Chris82: not sure, i tihnk iy is not critical tho
20:58:33 <Phazorx> i'll give you link for cooper's grf oack
20:58:56 <peter1138> kaan: depends on the profiling implementation, i guess. with -pg it saves it to a binary file which is processed later
20:59:43 <kaan> peter1138: ok, then what is processing it later then?
21:00:02 <Phazorx> glx: i could be wrong then even to worry about that
21:00:16 <Phazorx> since the point is that profiling isnt realtime
21:00:21 <peter1138> a program that analyses the data. gprof in this case
21:00:44 <peter1138> i imagine MS VS will have a totally different method of profiling
21:00:55 <kaan> i guess thats a linux program, and that could probably run well under mingw
21:01:12 <Phazorx> Chris82: looking at a station i presume?
21:01:22 <peter1138> looking at a town, heh
21:01:30 <glx> kaan: gprof is included in mingw IIRC
21:01:30 <Chris82> oh no just at the place where the viewport started
21:01:39 <Chris82> I find a station with some trains
21:01:45 <Phazorx> Chris82: south end :)
21:01:48 <peter1138> well, i guess i need to go and get that E6600 or something, then
21:02:05 <kaan> nice, thanks for the details :)
21:02:25 <Chris82> Train 445 is lost *g*
21:02:47 <Phazorx> Chris82: yapf borks due to weird mainline
21:02:56 <Phazorx> it is too long and has too much stuff in it
21:02:57 <peter1138> frankly i'm disgusted
21:03:16 <Chris82> with fully zoomed out at that location I get almost full load on the CPU
21:03:19 <Phazorx> that's Osai's stylefor ya
21:03:20 <peter1138> i mean, admittedly my pc is over 6 years old, but still...
21:03:32 <Phazorx> Chris82: almost full = full
21:03:47 <Phazorx> windows can not give you 100% unless you set priority
21:04:00 <Chris82> 50% is the max openttd can have anyway
21:04:16 <Phazorx> i suggest give it priority
21:04:27 <peter1138> Phazorx: dual core. it'll use the other cpu for the stuff would normally consume 10% on a single core cpu
21:04:36 <Chris82> when I set priority to high of openttd.exe it's 47-50%
21:04:44 <Chris82> with normal it's 42-45%
21:04:44 <peter1138> (simplified. it's all spread over of course)
21:05:04 <stillunknown> Is the speed difference between buses and trains also removed?
21:05:13 <peter1138> stillunknown: there is no speed difference
21:05:30 <stillunknown> previously buses went 2x as trains
21:05:34 <stillunknown> for their speed rating
21:05:36 <Phazorx> Chris82: realtime priory will show you what it actualy is
21:05:55 <peter1138> for rating, yes, but not actual speed.
21:05:56 <stillunknown> a few months ago
21:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: no, it was just an internal difference, they effectively went same speed
21:06:41 <Brianetta> dihedral: How did you prepare your webcam?
21:07:06 <peter1138> the internal difference is still there. but the speeds are the same
21:07:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10282 /branches/0.5/ (intro_gui.c main_gui.c players.c strgen/strgen.c):
21:07:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Fix: compilation without networking support.
21:07:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Fix: crashes with subsidy messages when using Korean as language.
21:07:38 <Chris82> hmmm very interesting
21:07:41 <Brianetta> IE doens't run in Linux
21:07:51 <Chris82> when I don't select the openttd window the process only uses around 20% cpu with your game
21:08:05 <Chris82> the trains don't move slower when I select another window
21:08:17 <Chris82> at least they don't seem slower when watching them
21:08:42 <dihedral> but it does have a downside: get the bundled vulnerabilities of windows on linux :-D
21:09:01 <Phazorx> Chris82: it is priority management
21:09:14 <Prof_Frink> More importantly, I'm allergic to IE
21:09:22 <dihedral> if you are using firefox and have the webdeveloper plugin, simple edit html and remove the second <head> and <body> tags
21:09:37 <Chris82> so what does your game tell me?
21:09:42 <Chris82> OTTD needs multi core support :D:D
21:10:06 <Phazorx> Chris82: go into NE crner and disable animation plz
21:10:16 <Brianetta> Can anybody give me the current trunk SVN URI?
21:10:22 <peter1138> svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/
21:10:27 <Phazorx> then i'd like to know how much CPU used for logic/pf
21:10:41 <Chris82> turning off animation and/or full detail doesn't change anything
21:11:02 <Phazorx> i think about half of CPU load goes to sprite managem,ent
21:11:13 * Brianetta checks out the trunk
21:11:14 <Phazorx> esp on that gam,e with a lot of fast moving trains on screen
21:11:32 <Phazorx> Chris82: zoom in max, look at water in NW corner
21:11:34 <Brianetta> I'd update, but my checked-out copy is pre-Makefile-shift
21:11:35 <dihedral> turn off all details and set resolution to 1,1 :-D
21:11:44 <Phazorx> scroll so nothing in the screen
21:12:05 <Chris82> 24% with and w/o animation and detail
21:12:08 <Brianetta> Reduce resolution for increased performance
21:12:20 <Chris82> still doesn't change anything
21:12:23 <Phazorx> that means game can have 2x trains
21:12:38 <Phazorx> and half of power goes to gfx
21:12:48 <dihedral> run a desert game :-D
21:13:04 <Chris82> ah when I resize the window from maxed to tiniest possible there's about 5% CPU difference
21:13:16 <dihedral> run a 64x64 map for 8 companies :-D
21:13:22 <Chris82> but the full animation and detail settings don't change anything only window sized changed cpu load
21:13:30 <Rubidium> Brianetta: you can just svn up from before the makefile changes
21:13:37 <dihedral> btw Brianetta i had a though
21:13:38 <Chris82> 1280x1024 is full size window
21:13:49 <Phazorx> Chris82: try look at station and play with detail animation
21:13:56 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Last time I tried that I had hundreds or orphaned files
21:13:57 <peter1138> Rubidium: it's painful though
21:14:02 <Chris82> yeah I did, didn't change anything
21:14:03 <Brianetta> Many of them newgrfs, etc
21:14:15 <Chris82> it didn't matter if I was at a station or at water
21:14:21 <dihedral> you could add a trigger so that a screenshot is made when a certain output appears right?
21:14:26 <Rubidium> oh, yes, that could happen
21:14:28 <Phazorx> Chris82: strange usualy it does
21:14:31 <Chris82> overall load at water was lower but it didn't change with the settings only because no trains were in the viewport
21:14:52 <Phazorx> Chris82: details i couldnt care less
21:14:56 <Phazorx> but water has animation
21:14:56 <dihedral> Brianetta: how about creating a screenshot when a ack packet comes from the masterserver?
21:15:28 <dihedral> Brianetta: then the line "advertising on masterserver" or something similar is printed to stdout
21:15:31 <Phazorx> wont be a major factor but for sake of experiment it would be nice to compare apples to apples
21:15:38 <Phazorx> here i have it at 80-90%
21:15:42 <Chris82> going from 640x480 to 1280x1024 noticable increases CPU load
21:15:47 <Phazorx> looking at water with 10200
21:15:49 <Chris82> but I see no difference with animation changed
21:15:53 <Chris82> no matter where I am on the map
21:16:18 <Brianetta> dihedral: Don't get too enthusiastic about screenshots. Dedicated server won't have them forever.
21:16:36 <dihedral> Brianetta: as that ack packet is a udp packet, OpenTTDLib could request autopilot to make a new screeny
21:16:39 <Chris82> I quickly need to build a few trains
21:16:44 <Chris82> my brother has twice as many as I already :D
21:16:45 <Phazorx> hmm.. btw... is it easy to expand server to 16 ppl ?
21:17:13 <dihedral> Brianetta: not forever means probably at least as long as 0.7 has not been released
21:17:28 <dihedral> thats another year :-D
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21:18:14 <Rubidium> uhm, trunk already has a "null" blitter for dedicated, so it won't draw anymore. However, you can override the blitter to something that still does draw.
21:18:17 <Brianetta> dihedral: It's there until the dedicated server is cleaned up
21:18:37 <Brianetta> Phazorx: Something to do with many assumptions in the code
21:18:45 <Phazorx> btw... interesting... ottd comes up as 1st link on googling "mingw setting up svn" :)
21:19:02 <Phazorx> Brianetta: so it is not global constant?
21:19:15 <Phazorx> i guess some cleanup is needd then
21:19:41 <Phazorx> i can see where need for bottd comes from tho :)
21:20:27 <kaan> its way more popular that i would have ever imagined :)
21:20:45 <kaan> I thought that i was pleasing maybe 20 people with it
21:20:58 <Phazorx> ahh well... assumptions :)
21:21:36 <Phazorx> Brianetta: sad, reason i asked - we had a few cases on cooper's public when there was more than 10 ppl interested at same time
21:21:49 <Brianetta> Phazorx: Yeah, it's a problem.
21:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Phazorx> hmm.. btw... is it easy to expand server to 16 ppl ? <- i think there was a 16 players patch once upon a time...
21:24:26 <stillunknown> Is it normal that cargo packets consumes so much cpu?
21:24:51 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: i'd like to see soemtihng like that trunked
21:25:12 <Phazorx> aside of cleanup - it's hard for me to believe that it is a challenging coding job
21:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> that lies not in my powers :p
21:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> "cleanup" in itself is usually very challenging
21:26:48 <Phazorx> peter1138: , how were you profiling it btw?
21:29:08 <Phazorx> as server? all output to null?
21:32:12 <Rubidium> 16 companies... that's now impossible to have without major changes
21:33:13 <stillunknown> Rubidium: Is it the resource comsumption of cargo packets normal?
21:33:16 <Phazorx> i am fine with companies
21:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> but for coopers, the amount of companies does not really matter, the amount of clients matters, and i believe 10 is a pretty arbitrary number
21:34:07 <Rubidium> stillunknown: it makes you use a little more memory and a little more CPU; not much as far as I could determine.
21:34:32 <stillunknown> Were was the cpu usage "hidden" previously?
21:34:51 <Rubidium> what cpu usage would be hidden?
21:35:07 <stillunknown> Were would it have been when profiling?
21:35:26 <Rubidium> in lots of locations
21:35:39 <Rubidium> but the most called would be loadunloadvehicle I guess
21:35:46 <peter1138> that's where it's hidden
21:36:19 <stillunknown> That can't be it, it only represents 0.5% cpu usage.
21:36:39 <Rubidium> stillunknown: why can't that be it?
21:36:39 <stillunknown> While cargo packets consumes 15% (including leak check).
21:36:52 <Rubidium> how much does the leak check take?
21:36:59 <peter1138> 18.75 4.34 4.34 1000 0.00 0.00 CheckCargoPacketLeaks()
21:37:19 <peter1138> but that's temporary
21:37:23 <Rubidium> well, that's only meant to be temporary anyway
21:37:50 <stillunknown> AllocateRaw takes more than 5%,
21:37:50 <Phazorx> dont temporary things go as "patch" ?
21:38:19 <stillunknown> Temporary as a new feature, and making sure it's not broken.
21:38:21 <kaan> you mean that you are going to do something else for cargopackets?
21:38:26 <Rubidium> Phazorx: not when you want something to be tested good
21:38:29 <stillunknown> By doublechecking some things.
21:38:56 <Rubidium> stillunknown: so AllocateRaw + leak check == 14.95 % ?
21:39:49 <Rubidium> but the rest is negligable?
21:39:54 <stillunknown> Although i'm not being fair, i'll check a trunk copy, to get proper numbers.
21:39:56 <peter1138> the rest is nothing
21:40:08 <peter1138> AllocateRaw is slow because it loops every existing packet
21:40:20 <stillunknown> CargoList:Packets is 1%
21:40:47 <Rubidium> stillunknown: loading an old savegame?
21:41:37 <stillunknown> Is that bad, if so why?
21:41:40 <Rubidium> then it's probably mostly saveload conversion stuff
21:41:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
21:42:48 * stillunknown has unified all vehicle tick functions into one
21:43:10 * peter1138 profiles with new savegame
21:43:15 * oxygene_ has rewritten viewport.cpp, but don't tell anybody
21:44:26 <peter1138> AllocateRaw() drops down to 1.93%
21:44:43 <Phazorx> ughm... are mingw compiled binaries do not use global GRF path?
21:45:20 <Phazorx> i dont see it in -d misc=4 output at all
21:45:51 <Rubidium> Phazorx: what version?
21:46:05 <peter1138> 3851 vs 8362 calls to allocateraw
21:46:36 <kaan> stillunknown: nice, when do we see the pacht? :D
21:47:07 <Bjarni> it has been like a week
21:47:56 <Rubidium> Phazorx: it should show in the top of the log
21:48:10 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i see it in precompiled binaries
21:48:19 <Phazorx> but dont see in mingw one i made
21:48:30 <kaan> hold on: Im testing video conferencing equipment for Tandberg and Cisco
21:48:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10283 /trunk/src/elrail.cpp: -Fix [FS#913]: catenary was drawn on bridges when elrail was disabled. Patch by B. N. SmatZ!.
21:49:34 <SmatZ> wooohooo I feel so good when my patch is commited ^_^
21:49:49 <stillunknown> kaan: patch updated
21:50:01 <kaan> so my education is officially useless now, im working as "ufaglært"
21:50:12 <kaan> stillunknown: thanks, ill take a look
21:50:55 <kaan> i dont know the proper english translation, but its a job that requires no previus skill or education
21:51:03 <Bjarni> ufaglært = uneducated (like only mandatory schooling)
21:51:30 <stillunknown> And you did have non-mandatory education?
21:51:40 <Phazorx> Rubidium: any ideas why it behaves liek that?
21:51:57 <Rubidium> have you tried make mrproper
21:52:03 <kaan> i have a minor education in computer science
21:52:11 <Rubidium> and what does svnversion tell you?
21:52:30 <stillunknown> kaan: define minor
21:52:37 <benc_> kaan: what'd you do before?
21:53:00 <kaan> 2½ years, one bit too short for being a bachelor
21:53:01 <Phazorx> $ svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.com/trunk
21:53:01 <Phazorx> U trunk\src\elrail.cpp
21:53:01 <Phazorx> Checked out revision 10283.
21:53:09 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
21:53:13 <Phazorx> is that supposed to make sense?
21:53:21 <kaan> I have run my own business and lately i have been working as a temp
21:53:25 <stillunknown> kaan: but at what "level"?
21:53:27 <Rubidium> well, it means you have r10075 with modifications
21:53:49 <Phazorx> Rubidium: isnt checkot = full checkuout ?
21:54:13 <Rubidium> well, I *never* do checkout after an initial checkout, I always do an update
21:54:24 <peter1138> Phazorx: cd trunk; svnversion ...
21:54:57 <Bjarni> hey that company ain't that far from Nørup... you are in luck :)
21:55:06 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i did some weird stuff there and was trying t override that
21:55:20 <kaan> I know, its darn great job too
21:55:29 <Bjarni> btw I was in Ny Nørup last weekend
21:55:38 <Bjarni> and I came to think about you
21:55:38 <peter1138> Phazorx: so you did do svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.com/trunk; cd trunk; svnversion ?
21:55:46 <stillunknown> kaan: (supposedly) around here only higher level computer is worthwhile
21:56:01 <stillunknown> Not that i know very well (i don't do computer science).
21:56:03 <Bjarni> however... it was kind of late, like after 10 O'clock in the evening and I was heading home
21:56:04 <kaan> you get to sit down with a factory full of nerds and talk about HiFi and stuff like that all day ;)
21:56:12 <Phazorx> i svnupped from trunk
21:56:18 <stillunknown> kaan: higher level computer science i meant
21:56:43 <benc_> there's always professional certs
21:56:48 <Bjarni> <kaan> you get to sit down with a factory full of nerds and talk about HiFi and stuff like that all day ;) <-- you aren't supposed to do some productive work?
21:57:12 <Brianetta> Speeding up the game breaks the timetables
21:57:15 <kaan> stillunknown: well I was unlucky enough to graduate right after the IT bubble burst so my whole class is having very muchj trouble ever getting a job
21:57:24 <Brianetta> All my trains started at once, and crashed into each other ):
21:57:51 <Brianetta> Timetables are a tad useless when there's no fixed reference point
21:58:10 <Brianetta> Getting the trains to sync with each other is very nearly impossible
21:58:15 <kaan> Bjarni: yes of course, we test both audio and video of the equipment, oh and then the computer runs a few tests too and then we register it :D
21:58:32 <Phazorx> Brianetta: s-bahn like network, for loading only portion of passengeers from every station
21:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, there should be like absolute times (e.g. first of a month/year)
21:58:44 <stillunknown> kaan: I'm glad i'm not computer science.
21:58:45 <Brianetta> Phazorx: That was random
21:59:02 <stillunknown> kaan: not doing (i'm skipping words today)
21:59:08 <Phazorx> i meant that as a usage case for timetables
21:59:25 <Brianetta> I want to use timetables for the same reason as real train companies
21:59:32 <oxygene_> computer science is fine for me ;)
21:59:34 <kaan> stillunknown: my experience tell me that it is much better as a hobby than it is as a job ;)
21:59:56 <Brianetta> which is to ensure that a train doesn't get in the way of others
22:00:11 <Bjarni> kaan: that depends on the job
22:00:21 <benc_> IT's really a very wide industry
22:00:34 <Brianetta> unfortunately, because the timetables are only relative to the time that this particular train was last reset, it's not useful
22:00:37 <stillunknown> I suppose university level computer science is decent.
22:00:45 <kaan> Bjarni: true, but at this point in time im not going to get a great job anymore, unfortunatly
22:01:14 <Brianetta> I had two trains serving a single line, time separated
22:01:34 <Brianetta> it was a taxing job getting them timed so they'd miss each other predictably
22:01:43 <Brianetta> I've no idea how I'd cram a third one in
22:07:25 <Brianetta> Had any fun with timetables?
22:08:12 <Smoovious> <Brianetta> All my trains started at once, and crashed into each other ): <--- sounds like a signalling issue. :P
22:09:48 <benc_> r10266 causing some warnings-as-errors on MSVC8
22:09:53 <benc_> train_cmd.cpp(466) : warning C4018: '>=' : signed/unsigned mismatch
22:09:53 <benc_> roadveh_cmd.cpp(100) : warning C4018: '>=' : signed/unsigned mismatch
22:09:53 <benc_> economy.cpp(1589) : warning C4018: '<' : signed/unsigned mismatch
22:10:17 <Phazorx> [SRC] Compiling openttd.cpp
22:10:18 <Phazorx> C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/openttd.cpp: In function `bool AfterLoadGame()':
22:10:31 <Phazorx> C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:2066: error: expected prima ry-expression before '<<' token
22:10:41 <peter1138> you can your conflicts
22:11:31 <Sacro> hey Brianetta, a bit yeah
22:13:24 <Phazorx> and how do i resolve that automatically?
22:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> svn revert -R .
22:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> removes all custom patches you have applied
22:15:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10284 /trunk/src/players.cpp:
22:15:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#899]: in the unlucky event 2 clients join at the same time to start a
22:15:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: new company while there is only one spot left, all clients became spectator. Now
22:15:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: only make either one of the joining clients spectator (much more game-friendly
22:15:06 <Smoovious> conflicts are differences that couldn't be merged automatically...
22:15:42 <Rubidium> *WHY* does MSVC complain about uint >= uint / uint
22:16:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10285 /branches/0.5/players.c:
22:16:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10284):
22:16:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: don't make everyone spectator if 1 joining client failed to create new company (r10284)
22:16:25 <Rubidium> benc_: that's another issue
22:16:39 <benc_> for the one you're talking about, try 2U?
22:16:56 <benc_> yes, ms is silly like that
22:17:09 <Rubidium> well, I can't try because I don't own Microsoft stuff
22:18:26 <Rubidium> and cargo_left is meant to be int
22:20:40 <Rubidium> hmm, on the other hand cargo_left could be cast to a uint there as it's always positive
22:21:36 <benc_> er, cargo_left looks like it should be uint to begin wih
22:21:45 <benc_> it's getting set from a uint in LoadUnloadStation
22:21:46 <Rubidium> benc_: no, it shouldn't
22:22:24 <benc_> for (uint i = 0; i < NUM_CARGO; i++) cargo_left[i] = st->goods[i].cargo.Count();
22:22:30 <glx> Rubidium: we were saying the same :)
22:22:45 <benc_> uint CargoList::Count() const
22:22:49 <Rubidium> hmm, I'm messing with those signs again
22:22:59 <Rubidium> benc_: we're substracting from it a lot
22:23:19 <Rubidium> basically cargo_left becomes: cargo in station - free places for cargo in all loading vehicles
22:23:20 <dihedral> this timetable stuff - does it influence the cargo rating at the station?
22:23:28 <glx> cargo_left[v->cargo_type] -= cap; <-- like this
22:23:38 <oxygene_> whats the warning of MSVC?
22:24:28 <benc_> sorry, hadn't fully grokked that part of the code yet, really just meant to report the compile warnings:)
22:25:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10286 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix r10284: nice typo (tnx glx)
22:28:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10287 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r10266): some surprises from that (almost always) complaining compiler...
22:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm still sad about veronica mars...
22:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, here they are still in the middle of S2... and they're showing it during the night...
22:32:33 <glx> they showed all dubbed episode they had
22:32:45 <glx> now we are waiting for the next
22:33:17 <Sacro> is there a better way to check for a file in a folder than using "echo * | grep openttd*.pkg,tar,gz" ?
22:33:43 <stillunknown> glx: What are you talking about?
22:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> dubbed is almost always worse...
22:34:12 <Sacro> actually, rm -f will do the trick on its own...
22:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> especially when they are heavily playing with words in the original
22:34:43 <Brianetta> Sacro: Most people use ls instead of echo * because ls puts each file on a separate line
22:34:50 <stillunknown> Talking about some tv show?
22:35:06 <Sacro> Brianetta: but ls fails with an error when nothing is matched
22:35:22 <Brianetta> You also don't need to grep
22:35:52 <Brianetta> you could try echo *tgz *pkg *gz etc
22:36:02 <Sacro> i actually don't need to echo
22:36:10 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: ls openttd<tab><tab>
22:36:10 <Sacro> which doesn't fail with an error
22:36:18 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: not in a shell script :p
22:36:35 <Brianetta> Well, you started by asking how to check for a file, not how to just delete one
22:36:49 <Sacro> rm -f openttd*.pkg.tar.gz && versionpkg && pacman -U openttd*.pkg.tar.gz
22:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: i found that german translations were good until i actually watched things in original
22:36:57 <Sacro> Brianetta: yes, cos rm failed with an error
22:37:22 <Brianetta> Well, you didn't tell us that until later
22:37:28 <valhallasw> what is the cosine of remove?
22:37:33 <Sacro> i was gonna check for it existing and then remove it
22:37:41 <Sacro> but -f does it without problems
22:38:11 <Brianetta> another way would be: if [ -f file ] rm file
22:38:17 <Sacro> yes, that was what i was heading for
22:38:22 <Sacro> and then realised it was a silly idea
22:38:40 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: or replace the && with ; and screw the error ;)
22:38:49 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: that won't help
22:39:48 <Sacro> if there are 2 packages, then the upgrade command will fail
22:42:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10288 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#202]: also age engines that aren't front-engines (based on a patch by kaan)
22:43:38 <Rubidium> benc_: are you able to do that review of the inflation calculation code?
22:43:42 <kaan> so it was useful after all :)
22:46:15 * Sacro plans some l33t shell scripting
22:47:43 <Sacro> Brianetta: is it if [-f file] rm file fi ?
22:49:08 <kaan> LOL its one line of code :)
22:49:14 <Phazorx> hmm.. i like how it takes weeks gametime to load unload cargo on station but in depots, when wagons are changed it is instant :)
22:50:33 <benc_> depots are magical places to begin with
22:50:47 <Phazorx> hmm... how do i limit gametics for profiling ?
22:51:04 <Phazorx> and do i need to sync randoms for comparing apples to apples?
22:53:37 <Phazorx> Sacro: i have limited experience, why ?
22:53:59 <Sacro> i have a line ^PKGREL=$number
22:54:09 <Sacro> i want to be able to alter $number using a sed statement
22:54:34 <Sacro> is it simpler than just s/^PKGREL=*/^PKGREL=$number/
22:54:35 <Phazorx> alter as in replaced with fixed string for all occurences ?
22:55:13 <Sacro> no, it will be under $1
22:55:53 <Phazorx> i mean is the pattern for target replacemtn fixd or not ?
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22:56:39 <Sacro> if [ $# -eq 1 ] sed -i s/^pkgrel=*/^pkgrel=$1/ fi
22:57:00 <Sacro> actually, i need to replace the whole line
22:57:04 <Phazorx> ^ matches start if line
22:57:13 <Sacro> yes, i need to match the start
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22:57:30 <Sacro> otherwise it will also alter the line that does svn up -r $pkgrel
22:58:06 <Phazorx> it looks right on sed part but i'm not sure on quotting necessary for bash
22:58:13 <Phazorx> to make $1 actualy work
22:58:26 <Sacro> hmm, you think it will use $1?
22:58:45 <Phazorx> suggest echoing it 1st
22:59:24 <Phazorx> s/^pkgrel=*/pkgrel=$1/ tho
22:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> enclose with '.'
22:59:56 <Brianetta> because $ means end of line
22:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> to prevent bash from evaluating anything
23:00:02 <Sacro> Brianetta: an excellent point
23:00:06 <Phazorx> Brianetta: $1 is for bash
23:00:09 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i *want* bash to evaluate
23:00:20 <Phazorx> as intended, $1 will be replaced by string
23:00:23 <Sacro> i want bash to evaluate, but not sed
23:00:29 <Brianetta> So what's this script doing?
23:00:32 <Sacro> if i backspace escape it
23:00:40 <Sacro> then might that stop bash from parsing it too
23:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, yeah, it gets evaluated before sed is called
23:01:01 <Phazorx> Sacro: sed also likes quotes i'm not sure how bash would get around that that's what i meant
23:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> but can you be sure that "$1" will not contain characters that have special meanings for sed?
23:01:28 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: it's a number looks like it
23:01:39 <Sacro> how do you get sed to replace the whole line?
23:02:14 <Sacro> it seems to be appending
23:02:15 <blathijs> That would be all the matches on the line
23:02:17 <Brianetta> this was this good -> that was that good
23:02:21 <blathijs> not the whole line per se
23:02:47 <Brianetta> whole line: s/^.*$/something/
23:02:57 <blathijs> was this really good -> that
23:03:24 <blathijs> add ^$ to flavour :-)
23:03:26 <Sacro> now it prepends it after the =
23:03:26 <Brianetta> Sacro: What's the script doing?
23:03:40 <Sacro> Brianetta: its to autobuild an ArchLinux package
23:03:42 <Brianetta> I can't even picture what you have, let alone what you mean by appending
23:03:46 <Sacro> if i don't specify a revision
23:04:08 <Sacro> it will use HEAD, which works, but if i specify a revision, it has to modify the pkgrel=... line
23:04:21 <Brianetta> basically, a variable
23:04:22 <Sacro> which then gets called as svn up -r $pkgrel
23:05:09 <blathijs> what was wrong with the line you posted earlier?
23:05:12 <blathijs> s/^PKGREL=*/^PKGREL=$number/
23:05:18 <blathijs> only that * should be .*
23:05:33 <Brianetta> Why not just use $PKGREL
23:05:45 <Brianetta> Default it to *, and change it to $1 if $1 is set
23:05:53 <Sacro> i don't think i can do that
23:06:05 <Sacro> the package builder isn't that dynamic
23:06:08 <blathijs> good luck, I'm off to bed
23:06:15 <Brianetta> What is the package builder?
23:06:22 <Sacro> i was going to do that to automatically generate the pkgrel for head
23:06:47 <Phazorx> why did i muted myself :/
23:06:49 <Brianetta> To be honest, this looks like a job for if / then / else
23:08:20 <Sacro> the script that autobuilds head might be able to be hacked
23:08:54 <Brianetta> I don't even know what this script looks like
23:09:13 <Sacro> it sources the PKGBUILD
23:09:18 <Sacro> grabs the $pkgrel in it
23:09:36 <Sacro> and then does s/^pkgrel=$pkgrel/^pkgrel=$newpkgrel/
23:09:55 <Phazorx> ^ in replacement looks unneeded
23:10:06 <Sacro> but it makes me feel better
23:10:13 <Phazorx> it will put that char there
23:10:38 <Phazorx> question about profiling - how do i limit ticks?
23:10:57 <Sacro> hmm, i wonder if this will work
23:11:34 <Rubidium> Phazorx: limit ticks in what sense?
23:11:50 <Rubidium> make them take longer, or just "only do 1000 ticks" ?
23:12:45 <Rubidium> what are you testing? Graphics or some backend code?
23:13:19 <Rubidium> -v null limits to 1000 ticks
23:13:43 <Rubidium> i.e. it fast forwards 1000 ticks and then stops
23:14:01 <Phazorx> that makes it aufully simple
23:14:20 <Phazorx> do i need to take special precaution, if i use special config
23:15:09 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i know how to do that question is if it is need
23:15:55 <Rubidium> if you load a savegame the random seed will be the same
23:15:55 <Phazorx> will i get identical result if i run it twice with save save and save config?
23:16:03 <Rubidium> for new games you need -G XXXX
23:24:20 <Phazorx> Rubidium: will that unpause the game as well?
23:24:32 <Phazorx> and how long do 1000 ticks last in game time ?
23:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> one day is 74 ticks or so
23:26:08 <Phazorx> am i wrong about doing dedicated serverr profiling tho?
23:26:37 <Rubidium> that won't stop automatically
23:28:07 <Phazorx> <Rubidium> i.e. it fast forwards 1000 ticks and then stops
23:28:21 <Phazorx> apllies only to client?
23:28:24 <Rubidium> well I think -D overrides -v
23:28:28 <Rubidium> well I think -D overrides -v null
23:28:45 <Sacro> i just realised something
23:28:46 <TrueBrain> -D only doesn't override -b
23:28:58 <Sacro> versions pre the makefile rewrite won't work :(
23:30:05 <Sacro> right, it checked out rev 10000 nicely
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23:30:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: and that is a problem, why?
23:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> now see what you did! :p
23:30:46 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i wanted to do "versionpkg --revision 1" and it build and install nicely
23:31:07 <Sacro> i'll have to rewrite the PKGBUILD to handle the older svn revisions
23:31:29 <Sacro> DATA_DIR=/usr/share/openttd-$revision
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23:34:24 <ln-> patrouille de france was nice.
23:35:13 <Sacro> does anyone here understand using shift with getopts?
23:39:32 <Sacro> [INSTALL] Cannot install. Not compiled with installation paths
23:41:02 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
23:41:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10289 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix [FS#735]: {COMPANY} takes two arguments. As this was not properly accounted for the plural rule used the second argument of {COMPANY} instead of the later {COMMA}.
23:52:54 <Ordep> you know where its this file sample.cat
23:52:58 <Rubidium> eekee: what keyboard layout has the w and l near to eachother
23:53:02 <Sacro> /usr/share/openttd/sample.cat
23:53:06 <Rubidium> Ordep: on your TTD CD rom
23:53:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10290 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: with smooth_economy, when industry production hit 32, it stayed there for ever. Give it some chance to get out of that uber-lowness (although it is a very slim chance, at least it has one)
23:55:25 <Sacro> in one day i had to use qwerty, qwertz and azerty
23:55:41 <eekee> Used to confuse me, but somewhere around the time I switched from ST to PC I had to get used to such changes
23:55:59 <Sacro> i am english, hence i shouldn't have to change
23:56:06 <eekee> Actually, I say "get used to", but if you're always switching keyboards you will type slower, I find
23:56:32 <eekee> Sacro: Would you prefer British or American keyboards? I have both, right now, lol
23:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was always fun when you had to find all special keys if you had a boot disk without "keyb" on it to change to german layout
23:57:14 <Sacro> american confuses me too
23:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> where typing "kezb gr" was usually the easiest version :)
23:57:43 <eekee> # is shift-3, ~ & ` are all mixed up...
23:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you got insane if you had to search for characters like ':', '\' or even '+'
23:58:39 <eekee> that dates from waaay back where some printers actually replaced # with £ in their character encoding, I think
continue to next day ⏵
