IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-07
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00:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> err. aren't bus stops already in trunk?
00:34:26 <Sionide> heheh lol, magic bulldozer fucks up the AI
00:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> magic bulldozer fucks up everything... only ever use it while game is paused
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02:18:09 <glenster> hello everyone - I'm a newbie.... :O
02:27:52 <Digitalfox[Home]> Good Night everybody :)
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08:09:32 <lolman> All praise to the netsplit! :P
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11:24:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9805 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Use HASBIT() et al for display options bits.
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12:59:48 <TinoDidriksen> Quickly dealt with too. If only Blizzard would implement something like that...
13:04:30 <Zr40> it was automatically dealt with
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13:13:40 <RobertGrammig> will knowledge in c# help me to program stuff for open ttd?
13:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> only if you can adapt c# knowledge to c or c++
13:16:36 <Zr40> the only similarity between C# and C(++) are the control structures (in other words, basic stuff)
13:16:46 <Maedhros> nice opinion gradient there :)
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13:17:38 <hylje> something in me wants to implement python bindings for ottd
13:18:12 <Zr40> take a look at boost::python
13:19:10 <hylje> but havent dug deeper into it
13:22:44 <hylje> would be rather kewl to have python blobs taking part in ottd innards
13:23:16 <Patrick> what would be an application for it
13:24:06 <Patrick> yeah, what sort of functionality
13:24:24 <Patrick> if it was something that got executed every game tick it'd be too slow
13:26:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9806 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 support for purchase cost, for all vehicle types.
13:27:54 <DaleStan> And do you really want to add a second set of add-ons that have to be identical for MP safety?
13:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> he's insane, remember?
13:29:57 <hylje> the infrastructure for plugins like that is very much manageable
13:30:08 <peter1138> DaleStan: presumably it could have an advantage from the start that they could be sent to the client by the server
13:30:13 <peter1138> unlike grfs, with all their restrictions
13:30:42 <peter1138> i'm not doing it though :p
13:30:54 <hylje> and to prevent malicious use, clients could have the choice to only run peer-approved plugins, which are digitally signed
13:31:09 <hylje> i *might* be doing it, but thats not likely
13:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> and what kind of signing mechanism do you think is "open-source-safe"? (i.e. not easily forgeable)
13:33:08 <DaleStan> So you're going to willfully restrict the valid plugin licenses? That doesn't quite seem like the Open Source ideal.
13:33:28 <hylje> python as it is now cannot be sandboxed
13:34:09 <Maedhros> you don't have to restrict the licences - you could just have a "redistributable" variable in the plugin
13:34:10 <hylje> and the licencing part is just about free use, instead of the licence mess we got with newgrf
13:37:08 <DaleStan> And enforcing free use is not something you should be doing.
13:38:55 <DaleStan> No, it's not. It's about choice. Users, and programmers, should always have choice. We can hope that they will choose free, but enforcing it will merely give more ammunition to anti-free-use parties.
13:39:14 <eJoJ> and we have 4x1600*1200 openttd =D
13:39:22 <hylje> by that logic i suppose GPL is bad?
13:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> please don't go there...
13:40:31 <hylje> however, it is just silly to be able to have closed or restricted code in a GPL'd framework
13:41:05 <DaleStan> Oh? So it's silly for gcc to be able to compile, and glibc to be able to run, closed-source code?
13:41:20 <peter1138> yes, if you're RMS :D
13:42:24 <DaleStan> Fortunately, RMS doesn't seem to visit this channel too often.
13:44:14 <DaleStan> Or maybe better: "It's silly to have Linux releases of closed-source software?"
13:44:53 <hylje> okay, let me rephrase: have closed or restricted code linking to GPL software
13:45:03 <hylje> which is incompatible due to gpl
13:45:17 <hylje> unless private use iirc
13:45:51 <hylje> but in case of multiplayer-enabled plugins that's distribution
13:46:16 <DaleStan> I think you'll have a hard time arguing that a python script is somehow linked (in the preprocess/compile/assemble/link sense of the word) to the OpenTTD binaries.
13:46:42 <hylje> it can be argued, but it calls and uses resources provided by ottd
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13:47:12 <DaleStan> Does not newgrf do the same?
13:49:57 <peter1138> any ideas on the flooding?
13:50:24 <boekabart_> Yeah, but I've had my inlaws visiting until yesterday, so haven't touched the PC much
13:50:35 <boekabart_> just at work, and there i actually have to work a lot
13:51:05 <boekabart_> I just got the first grf file from leppka, first thing is to use it
13:51:50 <boekabart_> I'm actually not so sure that with the 'high sea level' patch, the river/lake support is such a good idea. The flooding danger is too big, that makes it useless in multiplayer, i'm afraid
13:52:16 <hylje> its awesome enough to be dealt with :-)
13:52:24 <boekabart_> Plus, it's out of scope: I just wanted to raise the water level by 1 so you'd be able to tunnel under shallow water
13:52:26 <hylje> rail beside river bank for instance
13:53:06 <boekabart_> I've been playing around with a more 'realistic' water patch, that actually works with sub-tile water levels
13:53:37 <boekabart_> it floods more realisticly... but the graphics part of it is a huge challenge
13:53:44 <boekabart_> hylje: yes, totally possible
13:54:03 <Belugas> on the diafonal patch
13:54:54 <boekabart_> it's not my work, but i like it enough to spend some cleanup time on it, to make it a more probably candidate for trunk
13:55:32 <boekabart_> like probably everyone, i've had the idea in my head for ages, but never got around to making it.
13:56:43 <peter1138> why does timidity use up 40% cpu?
13:56:47 <peter1138> playing midi isn't that hard...
13:57:05 <eJoJ> Can you add support for higher resolutions in some time not so far away? gonna get boring compile for every new game started at openttdcoop
13:57:46 <Patrick> higher resolutions in what way?
13:58:07 <Belugas> boekabart_, we all like that patch. on the conceptual side, of course. Code-wise, it's still not there yet
13:58:20 <Belugas> but it's (imho) a darn good candidate for trunk
13:58:21 <Patrick> it's just a window, can't you resize it as big as you want?
13:58:32 <eJoJ> it's hardcoded as max 2000*1900 or something
13:59:30 <eJoJ> dunno why they have maxed it at so low, now I compiled and played at 4 screens 1600*1200
13:59:40 <boekabart_> Belugas: I'm (and the original author is, I guess) willing to spend time on it, if I get the feedback on what's not OK yet.
14:00:09 <Patrick> "they" are right here, you could just ask :)
14:00:17 <boekabart_> eJoJ: and maximize/stretch window doesn't do it?
14:00:59 <eJoJ> nope, openttd.h #587 and #588
14:01:04 <Belugas> boekabart_, already started to work on that ;)
14:01:17 <boekabart_> damn he's right, stretch doesn't go bigger than 2000 or so
14:01:34 <boekabart_> an maximize doesn't want to on windows, it maximizes on 1 screen only
14:01:38 <Belugas> boekabart_: micomico and you have already cleaned up nicely :)
14:02:46 <boekabart_> eJoJ: I guess the reason is to save memory on the DIRTY array
14:03:37 <boekabart_> gfx.cpp line 62. 63
14:04:14 <eJoJ> boekabart_: how large would the difference be for lets say6400*4800
14:04:28 <boekabart_> 6*4=24 times as big :)
14:04:35 <boekabart_> sprry. 3*4=12 times
14:05:11 <peter1138> overall, not that big
14:05:17 <boekabart_> now:4800 items, then : 6000
14:05:18 <peter1138> 60000 bytes instead of 48000 bytes
14:05:40 <peter1138> both got it wrong :D
14:05:54 <boekabart_> change request to match 2007 situation?
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14:06:26 <boekabart_> any dev willing to risk his neck on this one? ;)
14:07:32 <Patrick> anything on-screen has to be drawn as well
14:07:37 <Patrick> much more cpu intensive
14:07:45 <Patrick> I don't see why that'd stop it from being drawn though
14:07:52 <hylje> usually people using a load of monitors also have the resources to draw it
14:08:12 <boekabart_> but that doesn't affect performance with constant screen size
14:09:01 <boekabart_> well actually... 60k might cause more cache misses than a 5k block
14:09:15 <boekabart_> so it may actually decrease performance
14:10:15 <boekabart_> isn't 3200 x 2400 an acceptable compromise? OR can the dirty array implementation be changed with dynamic size? (makes it a bit slower also)
14:11:19 <boekabart_> Belugas: just played around a little with the diagonal patch and there's something not quite right. it increases the size by too-big steps i think. You cannot get a 3-tile selection, for instance, only even numbers.
14:11:20 <eJoJ> The 6400*4800 was just an example, and that includes 8 monitors on 1600*1200
14:12:03 <eJoJ> right, should have walked to bed 14 hours ago or something
14:13:19 <eJoJ> but 3200x2400 should be enough for some years
14:13:58 <Frostregen__> why not make a "maxres" config setting and allocate memory accordingly once?
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14:24:17 <boekabart_> Frostregen: Good idea. Can you make a patch? ;)
14:24:58 <Frostregen> sure... if this has any chance of beeing accepted ;)
14:25:50 <boekabart_> there are devs here, ask them :)
14:26:24 <boekabart_> Anyway, I think eJoJ should open a topic on it on the forum first, it's his wish.
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14:26:30 <Frostregen> this was an implicit question
14:36:38 <peter1138> new services... hmm
14:36:53 <peter1138> less or more annoying, i wonder
14:40:46 <Zr40> other than nickserv identify, that is
14:44:21 <elmex> someone told me that transfering eg. coal with trucks will mess up my income - don't know why he said that ;/
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14:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> transfer has been fixed recently
14:50:05 <hylje> i wouldnt say fixed, rather "improved"
14:50:10 <Digitalfox> Damn it's hot 32ºC in Portugal..
14:51:05 <elmex> what was wrong weith transfer?
14:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was just broken...
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14:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> except for the most basic setups, transfer-money and point of origin were not propagated properly
14:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only thing that is still not possible is two way transfer systems
14:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you bring passengers with busses
14:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> and take away the passengers that arrive by plane
14:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> this will not work
14:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> this will need passenger destinations
14:55:46 <elmex> hm, because the airport wouldn't accept passengers in the firstplace? or hmm... weird
14:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, on the airport you mix passengers from the busses and passengers from the planes
14:56:46 <elmex> so you would first have to transfer them from the airport and then to
14:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> it will just not work at all,
14:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can either bring the passengers with busses, or take them away with busses, never both
14:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> the busses would take the passengers away that they just brought
14:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> same for the planes
14:59:14 <elmex> one would first have to completly transfer the passengers _from_ the airport and make it empty before transfering new passengers to it.. and thats not really possible i guess
15:00:18 <elmex> hm, it's good to hear thjat it works. extending station artificial to reach nearby producers is just .. well it sucks
15:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> for goods that only go one way, transfer should work correctly
15:02:38 <elmex> i;ve read about the passenger-destinations thingie in the forums i guess. would be awesome
15:02:56 <elmex> but i've also heard of voices saying that the game shouldn't become too complex
15:03:36 <hylje> the game will be simple to understand
15:03:48 <hylje> but the underpinnings can be very complex and elegant
15:04:23 <hylje> you can play paxdest games without caring about the passengers themselves that much
15:04:34 <hylje> they work mostly as you would expect in real life
15:04:51 <elmex> well, eg. when industries only accept certain amounts of stuff i have the fear that the micro-management will be too much
15:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> you will be able to switch off passenger destinations in difficulty settings
15:12:50 <elmex> that would be indeed nice
15:13:37 <elmex> i've played railroad tycoon (was it version 2? i dunno...) once, and higher difficulty levels brought more complexity with them. eg. you have to take care of amounts of cargo ...
15:36:47 <peter1138> 15:35 [oftc] -OFTC(stu@oftc.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all! OFTC is proud to announce that it is about to launch its new services.
15:39:00 <TrueBrain> this aint spam, this was very much needed information for everyone :)
15:41:07 <elmex> TrueBrain: thats interesting
15:46:14 <Sacro> hmm, this BUILDOTTD looks good
15:48:16 <TrueBrain> it has been a while that I have seen an idea this good and simple come around :)
15:49:40 <Sacro> i might look into it, and see if i can help it
15:52:32 <Sacro> does it? sounds fine to me
15:53:12 <TrueBrain> I am sure peter1138 can explain what I mean (if he understands :p)
15:54:37 <Sacro> hmm, with could be added
15:54:59 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I was more looking why this is wrong :) I can explain in Dutch, but not in English :p
15:55:27 <TrueBrain> bleh, languages are tricky :)
15:58:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9807 /trunk/src/ (ship.h ship_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: unify playing of sound when vehicle has been loaded and leaves the station.
16:04:02 <peter1138> "Normally people wait until binaries arrive (and then that is always too late because the testing has been done then)"
16:04:27 <peter1138> people can't be arsed to get the nightlies but will compile?
16:13:49 * Wolf01 prods Sacro, do something usefull, bring me a coke
16:15:47 <Wolf01> time to sync the drag&drop remove station
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16:21:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9808 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unify the Handle<VehicleType>Loading functions.
16:24:27 <Wolf01> how much would be usefull a set of station creation patches?
16:25:35 <Maedhros> hmm. if only gmail properly supported fixed-width emails...
16:38:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9809 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 properties to purchase lists and add running cost changing for ships.
16:48:46 <kaan> so i guess this is the zen idle moment?
16:54:04 <peter1138> Wolf01: drag 'n' drop removal?
16:59:32 <Patrick> yeah, I've wanted that for ages
16:59:58 <Wolf01> i've it done for a long time
17:04:10 <peter1138> bloody gui.h change
17:04:20 * peter1138 waits for half the source to recompile :p
17:05:41 * Zuu remembers when he wrote up globals on a paper and waited untill the list was long enough before he added them too save complie time. :)
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17:10:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9810 /trunk/src/ (gui.h rail_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Add drag and drop removal of station tiles (Wolf01)
17:11:13 <Wolf01> lol, quick, many thanks XD
17:12:29 <Maedhros> ooh, i was just thinking how useful that would be. fantastic!
17:13:31 <Maedhros> on an vaguely related note though, changing english.txt is not fun...
17:14:11 <peter1138> Wolf01: shit, sorry, i forgot we're supposed to sit on it for 12 months...
17:14:38 <Wolf01> don't bother, my next patch will make you to do it so
17:15:26 <Wolf01> my "next"... the adjoin stations patch of this night
17:15:37 <Maedhros> i'm just working on that :)
17:15:58 <Maedhros> ... i say working, i mean "waiting for it to compile again"
17:16:54 <Wolf01> this time you were quick as the TGV
17:18:14 <Maedhros> i've added a patch option and the ability to build over a station if it's adjacent to another one
17:18:39 <Wolf01> i hope it won't make the other station a ghost
17:19:40 <Maedhros> heh, how do you mean "a ghost"?
17:20:22 <Wolf01> i mean that if you cover an existent station with the new one
17:20:27 <Wolf01> the old station disappear
17:20:36 <Wolf01> and you can't destroy it
17:20:49 <Maedhros> ah. no, you can't build over more than one station
17:21:13 <peter1138> if allow adjacent is on, can you build over just one station?
17:22:10 <peter1138> so it's broken then :p
17:22:31 <Wolf01> you can replicate the "bug" by removing the if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
17:23:03 <peter1138> Wolf01: he has, heh
17:23:11 * peter1138 compilifies to test
17:23:19 <Wolf01> but you was the mind :P
17:23:48 <peter1138> besides, there are no bugs
17:23:57 <peter1138> that's just the way it's written :D
17:26:29 <peter1138> ah, no ghost stations
17:26:34 <peter1138> it just ignores ctrl
17:26:40 <peter1138> which imho is wrong
17:26:57 <Maedhros> hmm, what would you have it do instead?
17:29:23 <Maedhros> if it give an error you can never change the adjacent part of the station without removing it first...
17:30:28 <peter1138> you can't build up stations out of difference pieces
17:31:08 <Wolf01> and why not allow ALWAYS to change a part of a station also if there is an adjacent station?
17:31:10 <NukeBuster> NickServ REGISTER woutertje wouter@mailware.net
17:49:22 <Maedhros> i'm not sure i see what you mean about not being able to build stations out of different parts
17:51:17 <Wolf01> just avoid the check for "adjoins more than one station" if there is a station in all the tiles under the area
17:51:41 <Wolf01> and if is the same station
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17:52:23 <prophet> Hi why can't airplanes carry other goods then mail and passenger in 1960?
17:52:30 <prophet> was this allways like that?
17:52:36 <prophet> or can i change somehow
17:52:56 <Wolf01> maybe you need a grf set
17:53:19 <prophet> as far as i know this was possible without
17:54:18 <Wolf01> i know that standard airplanes aren't refittable to oil and another thing, maybe something broke it
17:56:38 <Wolf01> i don't know, i usually play with av8
17:57:08 *** prophet is now known as prophet05
17:57:48 <prophet05> and the planes in av8 can transport wathever i want?
18:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9811 /trunk/src/lang/ (american.txt danish.txt dutch.txt):
18:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-07 19:59:41
18:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 11 fixed by WhiteRabbit (11)
18:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 11 fixed by ThomasA (11)
18:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed, 2 changed by Zr40 (11)
18:00:06 <prophet05> Wolf01: no they cant transport goods of any kind...
18:00:10 <Wolf01> no, all seem to transport only mail, passengers, goods and valuables
18:00:30 <prophet05> i allready testet in 200 but thy cant there either
18:00:55 <hylje> soviet aircraft for coal transport \o/
18:02:13 <Zuu> IRL-question: Conventional highspeed trains can do 2 (or is it 4) degree of slope in full speed of 200 km/h. Now supose a Maglev can do 500 km/h and 10 degrees, will the G-force when going from 0 degrees to 10 degrees be to big to make it confertable to ride that Maglev?
18:03:24 <Zuu> I though I could calculate the G-force by: sin( slope ) * speed, but I guess I'm wrong because that gives 86 G for the MagLev and 6.9 G for conventional highspeed train.
18:04:23 <hylje> for all we know concordes have a few hundred G on deceleration :)
18:04:28 <prophet05> hylje: there are no sowiet planes that can
18:04:48 <Zuu> hylje: I was not thinking about OTTD, I was thinking about real world use of MagLev.
18:05:06 <hylje> prophet05: oh i heard rumours
18:05:32 <Zuu> Some claim that maglev can do 10 degrees and therefor we can save money as less tunnels are required and so... :)
18:06:42 <Zuu> But aparently my physics skills are not soo god when I get 7 G on a convetional train which is obviously wrong...
18:07:57 <prophet05> not on a calculator
18:08:00 <Zuu> Rubidium: sin can work with degrees on my calculator.
18:08:22 <Maedhros> and the result is unitless anyway, which means what you're actually measuring is the speed vertically
18:09:25 <Zuu> hmm.. F = ma, ... so I need vertical acceleration.. I suck on physics :)
18:10:32 <prophet05> what about the planes now?
18:10:55 * Zuu stops spaming #openttd with IRL-issues :D
18:13:57 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
18:14:55 <ln-> Zuu: are you trying to count the G force only with sin(angle) times velocity?
18:18:18 <peter1138> that seems a bit simplistic
18:18:36 <ln-> the unit of sin(x) * velocity is velocity (m/s), not m/s^2 as it should be, first of all.
18:19:15 <ln-> and second thing, you seem to be happily multiplying [km/h] and expect to get results that are sensible as [m/s].
18:19:38 <Zuu> But I relize that the track will not change angle on a single point but on say 100 meter and the length of this have to be translated to some vertical acceleration factor... (my guess)
18:20:26 <Zuu> ln-: Okay, many stupid things I've done :)
18:23:26 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
18:24:12 <ln-> you probably should be doing the calculation by using angular velocity/acceleration, or something.
18:25:32 <Wolf01> Maedhros, how's the work with adjoin stations?
18:26:16 <Maedhros> stalled for the moment, until i understand the issues peter1138 brought up...
18:28:42 <Wolf01> wait for some minutes to compile and set up the game cam
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18:50:46 <Wolf01> Maedhros, can you play wmv movies?
18:51:44 <Maedhros> hopefully, unless they're encrypted, or anything strange like that :)
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18:52:34 <Wolf01> i can't find a software to compress a little the .avi
18:53:37 <Wolf01> i have only windows movie maker and some other softwares, but they make only little videos where you can't see what's happening
18:54:00 <Wolf01> or at least they should make them well if i want to learn how to use them
18:55:58 <boekabart> Wolf01: xvid might be a free option to make avi's?
18:56:03 <Maedhros> ooh, my internet connection's pretty slow today
18:56:08 * Maedhros blames his housemates
18:56:18 <Wolf01> no, that's hosted on my server
18:56:34 <Wolf01> i have only 256kbps of upload
18:57:09 *** glx|away is now known as glx
18:57:22 <Maedhros> Wolf01: was this video made with your patch or mine, btw?
18:57:55 <Wolf01> if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
18:57:56 <Maedhros> you can't make ghost stations with my patch anyway...
19:00:16 <Wolf01> i should download virtualdub also on this pc
19:01:00 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
19:09:08 <peter1138> i'm so pleased for you
19:09:13 <Sacro> i think his utf-8 is broken
19:09:19 <peter1138> however, to really get your message across, use UTF8 :p
19:09:35 <peter1138> Sacro: russians seem to despise utf8
19:09:53 <Sacro> peter1138: well... how does he expect us to read it
19:10:35 <Sacro> Lex: you might wanna use utf-8, at least then we can read your spam
19:15:18 <Maedhros> peter1138: i'm still a bit confused. how would you want adjacent stations to work?
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19:18:00 <Desolator> i have a problem getting 2cc in ottd (using nightly)
19:19:49 <Desolator> i replaced the SH188 (or whatever the temperate DMU is called) with my 2cc dmu, but only the 1st is shown, the 2nd is shown as pure green
19:20:18 <Maedhros> heh, do you have a screenshot of that?
19:21:24 <RobertGrammig> I think using station spread to decrease arrival time of goods / increase distance reward is very lame, but I dont want to forbid building large stations in general
19:22:08 <RobertGrammig> is there a patch/grf that makes it that a) reward is based on the closest station tile distance b) effective arrival time penalizes for distance from industry to arrival station?
19:26:50 <Desolator> warning! big scheenshot (1280x1024)
19:27:32 <hylje> Desolator: iirc base grf doesnt support 2cc?
19:28:40 <hylje> because they're straight from ttd
19:28:43 <Maedhros> is this a grf you've made yourself? if not, what is it?
19:29:36 <Desolator> it's a hack to trg1r.grf
19:29:59 <Maedhros> then no, it won't support 2cc
19:30:02 <Desolator> will it work if i load it manually? i'm too lazy to go throguh all the nfo
19:31:26 <Maedhros> it'll only work if you set bit 1 of the miscflags using an action 0
19:35:36 <Desolator> so what are miscflags?
19:45:07 <peter1138> rubadub crumble in the oven :D
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19:45:54 <Sacro> peter1138: i got bramble crumble
19:46:21 * Maedhros needs some more flour :(
19:48:25 <peter1138> Wolf01: 19:31 < Mucht_> ah r9810 seems to be pretty important to us
19:48:34 <peter1138> just so you know ;)
19:48:46 * Belugas needs to call wife to see what's for supper
19:49:16 <glx> Belugas: you don't like surprises ?
19:50:16 <peter1138> maybe he has to purchase the ingredients to cook it for her :)
19:51:15 <Belugas> glx : those guys just gave me some cravings :) so if wife has not decided what to cook, i might give her some pointers :D
19:54:58 <Belugas> peter1138 : we have enough ingredients to satisfy even your needs !
19:55:34 <Belugas> except mint sauce and lamb.... but i'm not too sure you are a stereotype guy ;)
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19:57:06 <peter1138> hmm, no-newgrf game
20:17:53 <peter1138> apple & rhubard, yum
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20:19:45 <Belugas> vicious.. simply vicious :(
20:22:41 *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel
20:23:20 <peter1138> well, that was nice
20:23:27 <peter1138> there's another 4 servings left o_O
20:24:03 * Rubidium wonders whether DHL delivers in 4 game days and accepts OTTD's money ;)
20:25:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9812 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9679): Obiwan prevented proper display of last transparency button.
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21:30:26 <Patrick> kbrooks: 1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000
21:30:57 <kbrooks> Patrick, that the meaning of life?
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21:55:51 *** Digitalfox[Home]_ is now known as Digitalfox
21:58:22 <Digitalfox> I'm having a problem... Well my notebook is no longer abble to run my savegame ( too many trains, ships, airplanes, roadvehicles and stations spread ), the CPU is 100%.. So to try to avoid this next time, can i install openttd in my home server and run it like a multiplayer game, but just for me and make the CPU of my server run openttd, and everytime i want to play enter with notebook in...
21:59:10 <glx> client need the same CPU amount as server (they both do the same things)
21:59:10 <kaan> well, i dont know, but i dont think that would make much of a difference
21:59:35 <Patrick> you can delete all your ships
21:59:44 <Patrick> there was a thing about the ship pathfindering going v. slow
21:59:59 *** Digitalfox[Home] has quit IRC
22:00:09 <Digitalfox> ok.. Patrick: That's already disabled
22:00:41 <Digitalfox> I think i have my options already optimized, i'm not using any patchfinding or even sound and music
22:01:14 *** NLVF-Tealc has joined #openttd
22:01:25 <Patrick> I thought some pathfinders were more cpu friendly
22:01:50 <Digitalfox> Well my notebook is a P4 3.06 with bus 533... But with a map 1024*1024 and a lot of veghicles and stations, well... 100%
22:02:18 <Digitalfox> My Desktop P4 3.2 HT Bus 800 just uses 53
22:02:32 <Digitalfox> So right now i can only play in desktop
22:02:37 <Patrick> looks like you bought at the wrong time :)
22:02:45 <Patrick> go to someone's castoff amd64
22:03:05 <Patrick> play with a smaller windows.
22:03:11 <Patrick> that sounds crazy but it might help
22:03:24 <Patrick> are you running screen maximised in all cases?
22:03:29 <Digitalfox> Well the notebook runs at 1280*800 windows mode
22:03:50 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:03:56 <Digitalfox> I mean like a window maximez, not full screen
22:04:19 <Digitalfox> The desktop the same but at 1280*1024
22:07:02 <Digitalfox> So the CPU used in server and client is the same, theres no gain in the client by having a server running the server mode?
22:10:07 <Patrick> all that happens in network games is that everything gets synchronised
22:13:40 *** ammler_ has joined #openttd
22:14:37 <Digitalfox> ok, thanks for answering my question ;)
22:15:32 <RobertGrammig> i once got a page in the wiki that showed time sensitivity of cargo types but cant find it now someone got it?
22:15:43 <Rubidium> network games use slightly more CPU with YAPF than SP games
22:16:17 <Rubidium> Patrick: try turning off NPF and YAPF for ships to speed up your game
22:16:36 <Rubidium> and do not enable improved loading and gradual loading at the same time
22:16:55 <Patrick> it's not me who wants help
22:17:26 *** ammler_ is now known as ammler
22:17:27 <Rubidium> s/Patrick/Digitalfox/
22:19:02 <Digitalfox> Thank you Rubidium, well NPF and YAPF are off.. AI is also disabled, and improved loading agradual loading is disabled also :)
22:19:36 <Rubidium> what version are we speaking about by the way?
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22:20:04 <Digitalfox> The last before newgrf change in patch
22:20:58 <Digitalfox> Since i use a USB pen or flash drive", it gives diferent letter to the USB, so i still use this build
22:21:30 <Digitalfox> Oh and windows version :)
22:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> what was the reasonig behind the absolute paths anyway?
22:21:49 <Rubidium> can I assume you didn't compile it yourself?
22:22:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: preparations for 'multiple' paths, i.e. scanning home directory, shared user directory and installation directory for GRFs etc.
22:23:24 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: It's an oficial night build :)
22:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it should really be possible to use relative paths...
22:24:17 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: the problem is relative to what?
22:24:37 <Rubidium> working directory? home directory? directory where the application is in?
22:25:02 <Rubidium> *directory where the binary is in
22:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever would help with the varying drive letters thing
22:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> so probably working directory (which should default to the binary dir)
22:25:46 <Digitalfox> My problem is that i have openttd in my USB pen.. And i use it in some PC's, and the letter changes like, k:\openttdd, on another h\:openttd.. So the newgrf pach in config file gives error of not finding the newgrf
22:26:01 <Rubidium> working directory is not per definition the directory where the binary is in
22:26:30 <Rubidium> neither is the directory where the binary is in of any use when that's /usr/bin and the data is in /usr/share/data/games/openttd/
22:26:45 <Rubidium> and some other grfs are in ~/.openttd/data/mygrf
22:26:48 <Digitalfox> If it worked like this in config file, like \data or \negrf and not searching before it woruld work, but this way is complicated...
22:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but in windows, if you click on the application, the working directory gets set automatically
22:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i realise it will not be a complete solution
22:28:04 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: that would mean windows users CANNOT place their data files in $HOME/openttd when they have installed it in $PROGRAMFILES/openttd
22:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> why? you can easily divide absolute paths from relative paths
22:29:10 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: Could there some kind of asking question when starting openttd to select the patch of newgrf, this option would be cativated in options menu..
22:30:11 <Rubidium> newgrf data and non-newgrf data directories are not decoupled
22:30:56 <HMage> why not specify search directories in config files?
22:31:19 <HMage> and keep paths relative
22:31:43 <Rubidium> HMage: does not work in both OSX and linux variants
22:31:54 <HMage> Rubidium: but it did in quake 3
22:32:44 <Rubidium> maybe it works for user data, but for OSX when starting a binary by double clicking '.' equals '/'
22:33:06 <HMage> Rubidium: the default is hardcoded, which means it can be platform-specific
22:33:07 <Rubidium> anyway, we have also installed 'data' which is *also* in the data directory
22:33:35 <HMage> replace '.' with 'current directory symbol for that platform'
22:33:51 <glx> openttd.cfg contains only absolute path for windows
22:34:22 <Rubidium> HMage: for OSX '/' is the current working directory in some cases
22:34:48 <NLVF-Tealc> Is it possible to run openttd from an usb-stick?
22:35:00 <HMage> Rubidium: details, details. I am trying to tell the idea that there's no need to write whole absolute path for each newgrf.
22:35:36 <Rubidium> but it's basically a 'windows' bug that is stores the full path
22:35:41 <HMage> NLVF-Tealc: but you'll have to specify newgrfs anew each time you move openttd from place to place (or put it on different systems)
22:35:55 <Rubidium> because on my system it's still relative
22:36:12 * glx goes look the source about that :)
22:36:42 <Rubidium> NLVF-Tealc: what HMage tells you only applies when you play nightlies under Windows
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22:37:31 <HMage> NLVF-Tealc: right, sorry.
22:38:03 <NLVF-Tealc> OK Then I will try to play it on my work :-)
22:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: what about relative to the same dir, that contains openttd.cfg?
22:39:03 <Rubidium> that fails horribly when openttd is installed in %PROGRAM_FILES%/OpenTTD/
22:39:07 <NLVF-Tealc> An other question. When I try to play online I see some chatmesseges but I dont know how to respond
22:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> you know the location of openttd.cfg if you read it, from that point on it is not even platform specific
22:40:22 <Rubidium> openttd.cfg in your home directory and only using relative paths does not find the data in programfiles
22:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i see no reason to forbid absolute paths
22:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the files in data/ should be handled differently than newgrfs anyway
22:45:08 <Rubidium> but the whole issue currently rather is the fact that the windows port thinks it's necessary to prepend the whole current working directory before the path
22:57:38 *** mikk36 is now known as mikk36|zZz
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23:08:20 <kaan> im going to bed, night all
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continue to next day ⏵
