IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-07-10
⏴ go to previous day
00:09:42 *** Marduuhin has joined #openttd
00:23:15 <rortom> joining and receiving commands/frames :)
00:35:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
00:49:00 <rortom> that knows the protocol?
00:54:27 <ccfreak2k> I can pretend to know.
00:55:12 <rortom> if a client is in the connection phase the game is unpause and the client performs all commands in its queue
00:55:35 <rortom> so what command is used to sent the server an "OK, im done" message? :|
00:56:10 <rortom> is sent all 74 frames i think?
01:01:02 <rortom> so whats happening now:
01:01:14 <rortom> then the server disconnects me :|
01:01:27 <rortom> i think there was somethink with random? :|
01:07:14 *** bowman^2 has joined #openttd
02:04:12 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
02:54:23 *** lobstah has joined #openttd
03:34:40 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
03:41:09 <rortom> i have a IRC -> openttd bridge running under python :D
04:00:13 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
04:20:48 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
04:29:38 *** welterde has joined #openttd
04:46:03 *** welterde has joined #openttd
05:11:39 *** Cyclonerotary has joined #openttd
05:36:22 *** Cyclonerotary has joined #openttd
05:36:39 *** Mirrakor has joined #openttd
06:09:31 *** Digitalfox_ has joined #openttd
06:11:47 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
07:05:54 *** pm|away is now known as planetmaker
07:11:29 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
07:13:15 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
07:14:57 *** SirBob_ has joined #openttd
07:19:22 *** SirBob_ is now known as SirBob
07:37:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
07:45:06 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
08:29:23 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
09:18:38 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
09:28:41 <MorgyN> that looks like america ;D
09:28:54 <MorgyN> prolly somewhere near LA
09:29:17 <Rubidium> looks way more photoshopped to me
09:29:38 <MorgyN> I've seen traffic like that on the m6 here in the uk =P
09:29:41 <MorgyN> just takes one accident
09:30:23 <LA> I dont think it's photoshopped
09:31:27 <Rubidium> LA: then please explain the exact string of 4 vehicles just at the hiehgt of the big house
09:32:12 <Rubidium> and that the highway starts in the forest at the top end of the image
09:32:28 <LA> the cars are all over it identical
09:36:11 <MorgyN> I blame it on the lack of dynamic sales of cars around moscow during that period \o/
09:36:19 <peter1138> the shadows are all wrong too
09:36:37 *** TiberiusTeng has joined #openttd
09:38:05 <MorgyN> was floodin on a motorway near me last year, and some friends had to spend overnight in the car =(
09:39:59 *** bowman^2 is now known as bowman
09:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i've never seen that bad kind of a traffic jam
09:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> cars suck anyway
09:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> drive trains ;)
09:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> hypnotic parallel lines ftw! ;)
09:46:29 *** |404NotFound| has joined #openttd
09:46:32 <MorgyN> if your not carefull it'll begin to moire and all the jammees will get headaches
09:50:45 <peter1138> lcd tv with a contrast ratio of 30000:1? i think not
10:11:31 <rortom> the openttd ingame bot is finally working :D
10:14:57 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:15:12 <dih> rortom: what in-game bot?
10:17:40 <Noldo> maybe something like Brianetta's autopilot
10:20:39 <rortom> dih: i could show you :)
10:21:30 <MorgyN> but you'd have to kill him?
10:27:41 <Brianetta> In-game bot, to me, speaks of AI
10:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> that would be kind of surprising, given the context
10:29:20 <rortom> no, its just like the autopilot, just different :)
10:29:57 <Brianetta> Eddi: I think in terms of other multiplayer games, where bots are players
10:29:57 <rortom> i coded a IRC bridge for it last night :)
10:32:05 *** Forked is now known as kjetil-
10:32:09 *** kjetil- is now known as Forked
10:33:08 <rortom> also that bot joins as a spectator
10:33:45 <Brianetta> You coded something
10:33:50 <Brianetta> You must have coded in a language
10:34:14 <Brianetta> Connecting as a spectator is impressive.
10:35:21 <rortom> it is working well now :D
10:35:29 <rortom> and the bot sees everything
10:35:43 <rortom> so lots more possibilities than coupling to the console
10:37:52 <dih> it joins the game as a spec?
10:38:14 <rortom> i emulate the ottd behavior
10:38:25 <rortom> means recoded the protocol in python
10:38:38 <rortom> so it works on any server
10:38:44 <MorgyN> interesting, could you easily knock up it mirroring the traffic to other connections?
10:39:00 <MorgyN> because then you have the first openttdtv =P
10:39:34 <rortom> lots of stuff possible with it :)
10:39:44 <rortom> like a client could connect to a proxy bot
10:40:27 <Rubidium> because you need to download the map, keep all changes since the download and then send that to the client
10:40:34 <Rubidium> the client has then to execute all that
10:40:47 <ccfreak2k> Isn't that why the game pauses when someone joins
10:40:51 <dih> how does it stay connected... you need to send the correct seeds....
10:40:54 <Rubidium> which for a map running like 12 months would take several minutes to join
10:41:21 <rortom> yes, the bot downloads the map and sends out ACK's
10:41:45 <Noldo> what about when the client connects to the bot
10:42:10 <rortom> it could be nice for coop play
10:42:20 <rortom> since one bot = one company
10:42:30 <dih> Rubidium: can a spectator not desync?
10:42:34 <Rubidium> still, after a few game days joining via the bot is going to be very annoying
10:42:47 <Rubidium> dih: clients themselves apparently check for desyncs
10:43:27 <MorgyN> You coudl do it like journals
10:43:56 <Rubidium> MorgyN: you only have the snapshot of the initial join of the bot
10:44:05 <Rubidium> and the journal are all commands that the bot has received
10:44:05 <MorgyN> take a savegame very 5 mins or so? then replay journals
10:44:30 <Rubidium> and the bot can't make a savegame because it doesn't run OpenTTD itself
10:44:43 <MorgyN> theres no reason that can't be coded tho
10:44:56 <MorgyN> it has all the data, to assemble a new savegame
10:45:03 <MorgyN> then just keep deltas between saves
10:45:28 <Rubidium> please write a piece of for example python that 'understands' the commands and does the right thing to the savegame
10:45:46 <MorgyN> I'll let rortom consider doing that =)
10:45:55 <Rubidium> then I'll change one line and you can start fixing your bot
10:46:25 <MorgyN> I'm just sayign it's feasable.
10:46:29 <Noldo> if that is the functionality needed it then it would be much more productive to make special client that is also a server
10:46:35 <rortom> im just trying to improve something with the bot
10:46:44 <rortom> like the irc bridge or stats logging
10:46:46 <Rubidium> MorgyN: it is possible, it is not feasible
10:47:16 <Ammler> what infos does a spectator get, which you can't have from the save itself?
10:47:39 <dih> Rubidium: i thought that check was done by the server, requesting a seed and the client responding with one, and if they dont match desync
10:47:52 <Brianetta> rortom: With rcon, you can basically make autopilot redundant.
10:47:54 <Rubidium> Ammler: the commands that normal clients send to the server
10:48:22 <Rubidium> and all internals of OpenTTD ofcourse
10:49:27 <Brianetta> Don't get me wrong, I would be over the moon to see something do what autopilot does, only better
10:49:37 <Brianetta> I'd probably run it myself
10:50:02 <Third> Hello fooks kan you help me?
10:50:34 <Noldo> Brianetta: you need a translation?
10:50:53 <Brianetta> Noldo: I think I might just obstinately misconstrue everything
10:51:20 <Brianetta> Third, you do not need to PM me
10:51:29 <Noldo> Third: not promising anything without knowing the question
10:51:33 <Brianetta> In fact, doing so is wasting your time
10:52:48 <Third> sorry... my english is not so good bat i wanted to ask you kan you help my to play TTD online?
10:55:51 <ln> don't ask if someone can help, just ask the question.
10:56:00 <ln> someone will either answer, or not.
10:56:04 <Noldo> you have to be a bit more specific about the problems you are facing
10:56:15 <Brianetta> Third: Be more specific. Tell us what you are trying to do, and what is happening.
10:59:46 <Third> ok... i'm playing the Open TTD and i wanted to play in internet bu i dont know how to make it work!!!
10:59:51 <rortom> mh so someone want to test the bot?
11:00:34 <Rubidium> Third: what version?
11:00:42 <Rubidium> did you click multiplayer and then list servers?
11:02:04 <Brianetta> Tell us where it goes wrong
11:02:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
11:02:54 <Brianetta> There might not be any servers for that version
11:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you should update to a current stable (0.6.1)
11:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> most servers use that
11:03:33 *** fmauNeko has joined #openttd
11:04:29 *** Tiberius_ has joined #openttd
11:04:32 <Brianetta> Third: www.openttd.org
11:06:27 *** Mirrakor has joined #openttd
11:06:36 *** Doorslammer|OTTD has joined #openttd
11:08:01 <Ammler> fmauNeko: that page needs registering...
11:10:23 <fmauNeko> packages for 10.2, 10.3, Factory, SLES 9 and SLE 10 are building too
11:12:45 <MorgyN> is there a build farm you're using?
11:14:46 <fmauNeko> hmm, i use the opensuse build system
11:14:57 *** fmauNeko has joined #openttd
11:16:13 <Ammler> fmauNeko: if I would install openttd with your repo, do I lose my installed stable?
11:17:10 <fmauNeko> yeah, they use yum repos
11:17:30 <fmauNeko> do you wanna me add fedora repos ?
11:17:44 <MorgyN> could do with a 9 on there
11:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> fmauNeko: maybe you should have openttd-nightly not interfear with openttd-stable packages, so you can have both installed
11:18:08 <MorgyN> Not for me, thanks tho =)
11:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i would install either...
11:19:27 <Third> hey kan somebody speak german?
11:19:38 <MorgyN> yeah seperate repos tbh, if you can afford the bw =)
11:20:03 <MorgyN> A repos of stable would be most welcome
11:20:41 <|404NotFound|> I would do that.
11:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd stable is available from packman repositories for suse, i believe
11:21:11 <|404NotFound|> Eddi|zuHause: Also apt-get for Ubuntu/deb
11:23:59 <Rubidium> but openttd is already apt-get-able for new ubuntus and (very) new debians
11:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> | Packman Repository 11 | openttd | 0.6.1-111.pm.1 | i586
11:27:18 <|404NotFound|> Rubidium: But old version.
11:27:32 <Rubidium> if 0.6.1 is old, then yes
11:29:05 <MorgyN> how do they get around having the graphics files
11:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need the graphics files to install it
11:31:19 <|404NotFound|> and there easily obtainable via google
11:31:54 *** Tiberius__ has joined #openttd
11:33:36 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
11:39:51 <fmauNekAway> Ammler: the most part is official packages for different suse revisions
11:40:45 <fmauNekAway> there are others :p
11:41:13 <fmauNekAway> pjoul is deprecated
11:41:17 <fmauNekAway> games is official
11:41:41 <fmauNekAway> and CobrA_SK is empty :)
11:56:54 *** Tiberius__ is now known as TiberiusTeng
12:01:28 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
12:06:06 <peter1138> openttd-0.7+svn-1.1 :o
12:07:06 <peter1138> if it is an stripped build then it should not be there
12:37:48 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
13:02:41 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttd
13:03:08 <DJNekkid> quick question to some dev, is callback 36 property 17 (purchise price) supported for wagons?
13:07:25 <Lakie> It might be in OpenTTD but is most defently notin TTDpatch.
13:07:32 <Lakie> The Wiki should have that information
13:11:35 <DJNekkid> it is not in patch, that i know
13:14:22 <DJNekkid> however, running cost factor, power, weight and cargo capacity is supported
13:14:33 <blathijs> If it would not be in OpenTTD, and is not in TTDPatch, then why does it even exist? :-p
13:14:46 <DJNekkid> it can be used for engines :)
13:15:53 <DJNekkid> for example could a cabless "b"-unit for an engine be cheaper then the one with a cab
13:15:54 *** SirBob_ has joined #openttd
13:28:58 <DJNekkid> peter1138: it is supported for wagons?
13:29:22 <peter1138> 14:25 @peter1138> it is
13:30:13 <DJNekkid> were just wondering if that were pointed at me, or something else :)
13:40:56 <fjb> Hm, there is no girl in here?
13:42:00 * Rubidium wonders whether a boy can already have a boy
13:42:20 *** DJNekkid_ has joined #openttd
13:42:34 *** DJNekkid_ is now known as DJNekkid
13:42:40 <Belugas> could very well be, Rubidium, depending on how old that boy is :)
13:42:56 <Rubidium> it probably can though, as a (small) girl can have an (even smaller) girl too
13:45:15 <DJNekkid> i think almost all of thoose cases had the word "rape" in them
13:49:43 *** teh_eekster has joined #openttd
13:51:45 <DJNekkid> well peter1138... are you sure that CB36 type 17 is supported for wagons, not just engines?
13:52:34 <DJNekkid> because it dont seem to work, but things like weight, power and capacity do :)
13:53:58 <DJNekkid> because, i cant really see why the callback should fail either, it's exactly the same syntax as the rest...
13:59:00 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
14:05:19 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
14:19:56 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
14:28:36 *** TiberiusTeng has joined #openttd
14:32:33 *** fmauNeko_ has joined #openttd
14:32:53 *** fmauNeko_ is now known as zz_fmauNeko_
14:35:38 *** zz_fmauNeko_ is now known as fmauNeko
14:38:02 *** fmauNeko was kicked by Belugas (Wrong channel)
14:38:12 *** fmauNeko has joined #openttd
14:41:12 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
15:11:53 <Mchl> why some entries are repeated in openttd.cfg ?
15:12:50 <Mchl> or is it possible, that if multiple ottd copies use one cfg file, they write their settings twice?
15:13:11 <Rubidium> yes, recent trunk and 0.6-ish will do that
15:13:31 <Rubidium> cause the format for trunk changed quite a lot
15:14:24 <Mchl> ok, so this might be due to my using both 0.6.1 and nightly and self compiled patched version
15:15:22 <Rubidium> and you've started 0.6.x-ish last
15:15:43 <Mchl> ...due to my using both... <- not both... more :P
15:16:02 <Mchl> yes, I guess stable was the last I started ;)
15:21:38 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
15:27:44 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
15:30:51 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
15:32:05 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
15:32:36 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
15:38:20 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
15:47:45 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
15:50:39 *** Osai is now known as Osai^awa
15:50:40 *** Osai^awa is now known as Osai^away
15:52:09 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:09:44 *** caladan has joined #openttd
16:21:17 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
16:29:38 <Belugas> "Start of game in 19th century (1892)"
16:32:17 *** Osai^away is now known as Osai
16:32:43 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
16:33:56 <fjb> Engine pools are giving the road vehicle development a real boost.
16:34:10 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
16:41:09 <Ammler> I assume nothing, just double saved...
16:41:50 <Belugas> description is different
16:42:03 <Belugas> one is on dos, the other on win fils
16:42:23 <Belugas> category specified on one, not on the other
16:42:40 <Belugas> download/discussion links not the same
16:43:13 * Belugas sends glasses to Ammler
16:44:00 <Doorslammer|OTTD> I want them back after youve finished with them ;)
16:45:15 <Ammler> the glasses don't help, you can have them :-)
16:46:09 <Ammler> imo, 227 is just a corrected 226 :-/
16:46:28 <Belugas> and it's why it's not a double saved :P
16:47:27 <Ammler> is there another update recently happen with GRFs I might have missed for the new GRFPack?
16:48:36 <Belugas> aren't they on a svn server?
16:49:20 <Ammler> but only, if I commit them :-)
16:49:28 <Ammler> or someone else from us.
16:49:51 <Ammler> sadly no GRFAuthor does commit them self :-)
16:51:19 <Ammler> you are very welcome !
16:51:33 <Ammler> I would really like to play your GRFs :-)
16:52:24 <fjb> Sad thing is I didn't make any yet.
16:52:51 <Ammler> I am already at ID 7 :P
16:53:09 <Ammler> but only very easy ones.
16:54:10 <fjb> My ideas are too complicated. And I can not draw.
16:54:39 <Ammler> ups, that remindes me of committing another GRF :-)
16:55:06 <Ammler> well, I would say, there are more guys, who like to draw for you, then coding.
16:55:14 <fjb> Better do it before it's too late.
16:55:47 <Ammler> like the modern stations, which XeryusTC disconntinued...
16:56:18 <fjb> I'm too lazy to type hex codes. If god wanted man to write hex codes he would have given hin sixteen fingers.
16:56:54 <Ammler> use the compiler from Eddi|zuHause
16:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you could always donate me some time to finish my compiler
16:57:31 <Ammler> did belugas get so much money?
16:58:08 <fjb> I'm thinking about my own kind of compiler. But not sure about the syntax yet.
16:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that's good, because you could put your syntax in mine, i have an outline for everything else ;)
17:00:20 <fjb> Hm, putting containers into containers...
17:02:01 <Ammler> we might need to think about trashing some...
17:02:13 <fjb> I bet somebody tries to load them all at once.
17:02:30 <Ammler> well, that is the most asked question :-)
17:02:40 <Ammler> how can I load them ALL
17:03:00 <fjb> Oh no... Could you install a stupidity test?
17:04:14 <Ammler> well, nobody is reading it anyway..
17:04:36 *** raimar3 has joined #openttd
17:04:54 <fjb> Write "No idiots allowed" on the download page.
17:06:02 <Belugas> [13:00] <fjb> Oh no... Could you install a stupidity test? <-- success garanteed!
17:06:33 <Belugas> plus, they don't even know what they are loading...
17:07:02 <fjb> Could you not make a fake grf that exhausts the sprite limit?
17:09:10 <Ammler> "Not all GRFs are used simultaneously on our servers." <-- maybe we should add: "because it is stupid!"
17:09:59 *** Doorslammer|OTTD has quit IRC
17:10:22 <Belugas> would not be a valid reason...
17:11:11 <Belugas> "Because during config interchange, only 62 different grf entries can be sent"
17:11:20 <Belugas> would be a bit more... constructive
17:12:01 <Ammler> Belugas: can I use that without credit? :-)
17:12:19 <Ammler> oh, well, I could quote a dev...
17:14:12 * fjb is at 43 grfs in the current game... Oh, oh...
17:15:07 <Belugas> you can, but i doubt it is well written
17:15:48 <Ammler> fjb: we already reached the limit at ps
17:16:05 <Belugas> "so to prevent reaching that limit, verify what each of the grfs do give you ingame and choose wisely"
17:16:07 <Ammler> I added all vehicle grfs :-)
17:16:11 <Belugas> that would even be better
17:16:17 <Ammler> but that didn't work :-)
17:17:10 <fjb> I'm using ECS, some of the OpenGFX stuff and some more vehicle grfs.
17:33:25 *** Mirrakor has joined #openttd
17:34:25 <fjb> Sebian tram set sets you currency to Dinares... :-(
17:35:05 <Belugas> yeah :D thatis called newcurrencies!
17:35:08 <TiberiusTeng> 62 at config interchange? is this easily hackable ?
17:35:32 <Belugas> TiberiusTeng, i cannot tell
17:35:44 <TiberiusTeng> seems another magic number ... :P
17:35:52 <Belugas> but i think it would be pretty much of a big job
17:36:15 <TiberiusTeng> I've hacked OTTD to use dynamically-allocated file slots to do something like 300 GRFs here ...
17:36:30 <Belugas> that number might be related to somehting somewhere with a structure
17:36:32 <TiberiusTeng> but if the file slots isn't the only bottleneck .....
17:36:53 <TiberiusTeng> (MSVC runtime hardcoded the open file limit at 2048 ...)
17:38:12 <TiberiusTeng> but plain CreateFile can easily do, say, 20k files
17:38:30 <Mirrakor> Therefore: Don't use MSVC
17:39:13 <TiberiusTeng> nah, just recompile your CRT, Visual Studio have CRT source included :p
17:39:30 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: that won't be network safe, I assume...
17:40:58 <TiberiusTeng> uint8: Amount of GRFs
17:41:26 <TiberiusTeng> easily hackable I think :P
17:41:44 <Rubidium> just need to add jumbo packets to the internet though
17:42:05 <TiberiusTeng> I think it's already using TCP ...
17:42:23 <Rubidium> but then, I could be wrong
17:42:35 <Belugas> i think Rubidium knows waht he's talking about
17:42:48 <Belugas> i'll trust him more than me, in fact :)
17:42:49 <TiberiusTeng> DEF_SERVER_SEND_COMMAND_PARAM(PACKET_SERVER_CHECK_NEWGRFS)(NetworkTCPSocketHandler *cs)
17:43:13 <Rubidium> that's a boring function
17:43:44 <Rubidium> and not the real interesting one in this case
17:44:18 <TiberiusTeng> IIRC the UDP's only used in server advertisement for now
17:44:45 <Rubidium> which occasionally sends the same set of NewGRFs
17:45:18 <Rubidium> and with a few more NewGRFs the packet overflows
17:46:19 <Rubidium> as if *anything* is written with no limit in mind
17:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 640k ought to be enough for anyone
17:46:51 <TiberiusTeng> hey, it even runs on a Nintendo DS! :D
17:47:13 <fjb> 640k ip packet size... :-)
17:48:05 <TiberiusTeng> I thought a 'server count' limit was mentioned few days ago ...
17:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that one is for the package reply to "list all servers", the grf limit is the reply for "get server info"
17:49:07 <TiberiusTeng> DEF_UDP_RECEIVE_COMMAND(Server, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS)
17:49:13 <TiberiusTeng> seems not so easily hackable, indeed ...
17:49:31 <Rubidium> getting it to work properly is something else
17:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> different nuances of "hack" ;)
17:50:19 <TiberiusTeng> ahh then I hope someone will hack it someday eventually :P
17:50:48 <TiberiusTeng> looks like it already considered SEND_MTU to a degree
17:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, you just need to add a packet count and a packet number to the packets, so the client can find out if it should expect more... if some go missing, the client needs to request them again, no need for a TCP stack that way
17:53:45 <TiberiusTeng> the comment for NETWORK_MAX_GRF_COUNT says it's related to number of handles OpenTTD can open
17:54:20 <TiberiusTeng> and the UDP GRF packet protocol already divides the list to comply with SEND_MTU
17:54:31 <TiberiusTeng> therefore it looks like a easy hack, after all ...
17:54:55 <Rubidium> good luck with getting your 80 GRF server to advertise
17:55:51 <Ammler> hmm, I would say, it is more difficulty to have 80 GRFs running together.
17:57:10 <TiberiusTeng> advertise only sends WELCOME_MESSAGE, Version, server_port
17:57:22 <TiberiusTeng> so it doesn't look like a problem ...
17:57:54 <TiberiusTeng> well, but I feel it's another 'unwelcomed'
17:57:58 <TiberiusTeng> patch after all :P
17:59:15 <Rubidium> TiberiusTeng: you have no clue how advertising works it seems
18:00:23 <Belugas> who cares about making it properly... MORE!!!!
18:00:33 <Belugas> that's all that counts, after all :)
18:01:25 <Rubidium> just a hint: on advertising the master server checks whether the server is online by fetching the game info of the server. If that fails the server won't be advertised.
18:01:43 <Rubidium> you want to add more info to the game info packet which is going to make it too big
18:02:45 <TiberiusTeng> if you mean PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO then it didn't send anything related to NewGRFs ...
18:03:23 *** DJNekkid_ has joined #openttd
18:03:53 <TiberiusTeng> Rubidium, I don't understand ... you don't want this kind of functionalty get implemented? I understand you know more about OpenTTD networking than me, but are you trying to help, or to discourage me?
18:04:00 <Rubidium> more the PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER packet
18:04:07 *** SpComb^_ has joined #openttd
18:05:36 <Rubidium> and the PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER packet can currently use up to 1441 bytes (SEND_MTU is for OTTD 1460 because of stupid routers and such) and sending data of a single NewGRF more is 20 bytes
18:05:43 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
18:06:11 <Rubidium> which leaves you with -1 free byte if you add a 63th NewGRF and max out the server name, map name and revision string
18:06:40 *** Cap_J_L_Picard has quit IRC
18:06:40 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
18:06:45 *** ArmEagle has joined #openttd
18:06:47 *** joachim has joined #openttd
18:06:49 *** DJNekkid_ is now known as DJNekkid
18:06:57 *** Cap_J_L_Picard has joined #openttd
18:08:54 <Rubidium> so I'm not discouraging you, I'm just telling that there's no space for it in the network protocol
18:09:10 *** SpComb^_ is now known as SpComb
18:10:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:10:25 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
18:10:25 *** Marduuhin has joined #openttd
18:10:40 *** egladil has joined #openttd
18:10:49 <ArmEagle> I'm looking at all those 32bpp sprites.. and I wonder where 'the' list with all objects and sprite IDs can be found.. :)
18:12:26 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
18:13:15 <TiberiusTeng> well, so it need to handle this with fragmented packets like PACKET_UDP_SERVER_NEWGRFS ...
18:14:40 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
18:20:06 <Rubidium> that'll make clients suspectible for DOS attacks
18:20:34 <Rubidium> as you need to have all server information before you may actually show it in the server list
18:20:41 <fjb> Fragmented packets don't pass every firewall.
18:24:00 <Rubidium> that'll make requesting server info even more floody and it'll get killed by even more firewalls
18:24:06 <MorgyN> you could argue that about any packetsize tho, if someone has the mtu down lower than expected anywhere in the chain you can get fragmentation, you have to assume it'll be handled correctly at the protocol level
18:24:20 * Rubidium is gone for the evening
18:26:27 <fjb> MorgyN: You could. But few connections have a MTU lower than 1460 bytes.
18:29:52 <SpComb> fjb: PACKET_UDP_SERVER_NEWGRFS uses user-level fragmentation
18:31:20 <fjb> Have fun with missing packets then.
18:39:26 <SpComb> fjb: looks like it doesn't really bother
18:41:22 *** Frostregen has joined #openttd
18:42:12 <SpComb> my coroutine-using C code is segfaulting when I call a function :<
18:42:48 <hylje> good luck finding the bug
18:42:50 <SpComb> in addition to things like accidentally freeing your own stack and then having libc segfault
18:43:20 <SpComb> and with "when I call a function" I mean "when I call a function", not "while a certain function is executing"
18:43:58 <Belugas> "Function, youhou... FUNCTION!!!"
18:44:15 <Belugas> "Hello? Is this Function?"
18:44:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
18:45:09 <fjb> No answer from Function...
18:45:21 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
18:45:55 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
18:46:15 <Belugas> and here is another function executed :(
18:47:16 <SpComb> starting to think that perhaps coroutines aren't really such a great idea after all
18:48:57 <SpComb> o right, I think I figured out why
18:59:14 * fjb votes for server advertizing via SCTP.
18:59:24 * Belugas wonders if there would be someone willing to grab all the infos about the "no more then 62 grfs" discussions and port it to the wiki...
19:09:12 <TiberiusTeng> I was thinking about a "GRF relinker" that merges many GRFs into one, with proper sprite ID relinking ...
19:11:10 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
19:11:26 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: problem will be distributing...
19:12:10 <TiberiusTeng> and complaints from GRF authors, etc ...
19:12:14 <TiberiusTeng> well, just thinking.
19:12:31 <Ammler> yeah, sadly but that will happen..
19:13:11 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
19:13:39 <Belugas> more or less violently indeed
19:22:46 <planetmaker> [21:09] <TiberiusTeng> I was thinking about a "GRF relinker" that merges many GRFs into one, with proper sprite ID relinking ... <--- is that something which could be done online by OpenTTD?
19:23:05 <TiberiusTeng> I don't think so ...
19:23:38 <TiberiusTeng> do you want your servers feeding the entire GRF set to clients, every time when they connected? :>
19:25:31 *** Slowpoke_ has joined #openttd
19:40:47 <fjb> Oh, oh, in versions and network games... :-)
19:40:56 * fjb is reading the german forum.
20:00:48 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
20:05:36 <SpComb> or you could just do server advertising by having each server keep a persistent connection open to the masterserver
20:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <TiberiusTeng> I was thinking about a "GRF relinker" that merges many GRFs into one, with proper sprite ID relinking ... <- that is insane... imagine a program-relinker that would merge TTD and SimCity (binaries), or Windows and Linux kernels...
20:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that has nothing to do with what he said
20:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and that would be totally possible...
20:39:44 <Belugas> night guys. happy hacking or whatever you're doing
20:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Raymonds Raving Rabbits :p
20:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> try to avoid Dragonball Z though ;)
20:56:59 <Wolf01> I'm blocked at mr.satan's vs c-18 match :(
21:08:30 *** Tiberius_ has joined #openttd
22:16:44 <ln> but i already have wii sports.
22:28:12 *** svippery has joined #openttd
23:03:32 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:26:05 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:35:09 *** lobstah is now known as lobster
continue to next day ⏵
