IRC logs for #openttd.dev on OFTC at 2012-10-22
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17:09:23 <planetmaker> Purpose is to try split down the task into smaller tasks which preferentially also could be addressed independently
17:09:38 <planetmaker> But to also give an idea what to think about when addressing one of the issues
17:37:15 <Zuu> planetmaker: Below "AI settings" there seem to be a borken heading.
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17:53:03 <planetmaker> I didn't want to put all that on our todo page (yet)
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17:56:15 <planetmaker> (I'm starting to repeat myself :D )
17:57:56 * Alberth misses the link to the FS by hackalittlebit
17:58:55 <planetmaker> good point. Do you know it (or its title)?
17:59:18 <Alberth> I am not even sure you want to touch "Window Re-arangement" at all, it's a very deep can of worms
18:00:18 <Alberth> FS#5147 - Consistent window style
18:00:40 <planetmaker> uh, there's still vehicle, frosch123 ? I thought I changed all to "local"?
18:01:12 <planetmaker> oh, yes. Forgot to remove those two. Yes, frosch123
18:01:44 <frosch123> planetmaker: i just wondered about the big red error message at the bottom :p
18:03:06 <frosch123> planetmaker: the difficulty profile setting is more important for ai/gs, less for newgrf (only ecs)
18:04:16 <frosch123> i don't think splitting user/map/company settings is feasible
18:04:22 <frosch123> i would rather add filters to the tree
18:05:29 <frosch123> but even then i don't see why one would want to distinguish them...
18:05:45 <frosch123> what is the goal of separating map and user settings?
18:05:51 <planetmaker> hm, yes. Care to formulate that? You can better write what you think than I ;-)
18:06:02 <planetmaker> separating map and user settings... we have game options
18:06:25 <frosch123> well, i assume we are talking about different things then :p
18:06:26 <planetmaker> game options could become a general user settings. To set sound, music, base graphics, UI behaviour. Possibly UI size
18:06:49 <planetmaker> And in another part of it maybe also signal density, signal type date or so
18:06:58 <planetmaker> (i.e. the UI part of the adv. settings)
18:07:04 <planetmaker> but... I'm not sold on moving that)
18:07:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, signals is a good example
18:07:38 <frosch123> if you look at current adv. settings there is a subtree for signal settings
18:07:43 <Alberth> the only thing I can sensibly see as something to distinguish is the set options stored versus not stored in a game
18:07:46 <frosch123> some of them are client, some company, some savegame settings
18:08:02 <frosch123> i don't think it makes any sense to split them, they feel correct in a "signal" category to me
18:08:16 <frosch123> i don't understand the intention of splitting client and savegame settings
18:08:35 <planetmaker> well. It makes sense for configuring new games
18:08:45 <planetmaker> but filtering serves the same purpose
18:09:12 <planetmaker> and might serve (much) more versatile
18:09:34 <Alberth> I have no idea what option is stored and what not in a game. Some form of distinguishing would however be fine, eg some marker somewhere
18:09:58 <Alberth> filtering is the only way to make it work for many, imho
18:10:27 <planetmaker> good evening Yexo :-)
18:11:03 <frosch123> Alberth: we already have a hint in the adv. settings help page
18:11:25 <Alberth> frosch123: what are you doing wrt filters, have a 'visible' flag attached to each option?
18:11:51 <frosch123> leafs have a filter state
18:12:03 <Alberth> frosch123: oh, must read that then, maybe I can learn to remember :)
18:12:11 <frosch123> branch nodes are shown only if at least one child is shown
18:12:30 <frosch123> if the branch node name is hit by the text filter, it will force all childs to be shown
18:13:40 <Yexo> will it be possible to have multiple filters at the same time?
18:13:54 <Yexo> ie text filter and "basic" filter?
18:13:55 <frosch123> the string filters behave different to other filters
18:14:13 <frosch123> yes, i want dropdown filters and a text filter
18:14:24 <frosch123> the text filter has the same multi word search as in other places
18:14:33 <planetmaker> I modified the page a bit now. Anyone please feel free to amend / change / ... :-)
18:14:42 <frosch123> the text filter will likely scan the setting name, the branch node name and the help texts
18:15:08 <planetmaker> wrt map / user / newgame / ingame settings: those could possibly be done by extra buttons which can be checked independently. Makes sense IMHO
18:15:58 <Alberth> planetmaker: I just wanted an indication :p
18:16:17 <planetmaker> we have the indication partially(?) in the helptext
18:16:29 <planetmaker> but... I'd like a clearer one. without clicking a setting
18:16:44 <frosch123> i am still looking for an idea, when to trigger the "expand all" automatically
18:17:11 <frosch123> something like, "if the filter restricts the settings to such a low number, that all fit on one page, auto expand all"
18:17:19 <frosch123> but i am not sure when to auto collapse again
18:17:45 <planetmaker> oh, auto-expand/collapse on such condition
18:18:48 <frosch123> you then want to type in a filter term, and then you want to see the resutls
18:19:05 <frosch123> moving the mouse from the top of the editbox to the bottom to the expand buttons, feels bad
18:19:53 <planetmaker> hm.... expand all when using the search button. Always, I'd say
18:20:13 <frosch123> yeah, but what shall happen when the user clicks the minus button then?
18:20:22 <frosch123> revert whenever changing the text string again?
18:20:30 <planetmaker> collaps that one. And ^^
18:21:04 <Alberth> auto expand on every change is the easiest to explain imho
18:21:06 <frosch123> also "collapse all" when emptying the filter box?
18:21:21 <planetmaker> I don't think it should auto-collapse then
18:21:21 <frosch123> i.e. collapse all on disabling filtering?
18:21:42 <frosch123> it feels weird to insert a single char, hit backspace, and then everything is expanded :p
18:22:13 <planetmaker> oh, it expands automatically, not when I press 'enter'?
18:22:22 <frosch123> "enter" might also be an option
18:22:23 <Alberth> it's the only sane option imho, the fully expanded list is useless when you have all options
18:23:03 <Alberth> you can collapse when above some treshold
18:23:32 <frosch123> so, expand when changing the filterterm and all hits can be shown
18:23:34 <planetmaker> honestly, not sure I like auto-collaps. When I (re)view settings, I want to see them ;-)
18:23:42 <frosch123> collaps when changing the filtererm and not all hits can be shown?
18:24:17 <Alberth> yeah, but 1 line too few looks so silly too
18:24:36 <Alberth> you could do 2 screens of settings or so as tresholds
18:25:01 <planetmaker> but... what's the reason to not show all settings and keep it collapsed?
18:25:13 <planetmaker> the user then will click all + icons to actually see the filter results
18:25:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: that's like opening the window with everything expanded
18:25:40 <planetmaker> frosch123, yup. Would find it useful ;-)
18:25:59 <Alberth> easy selection of a section further down is the main reason not to expand all
18:26:29 <Alberth> makes you wonder whether the tree is useful at all :p
18:26:39 <frosch123> well, filtering is more modern :p
18:26:46 <planetmaker> Alberth, by default often the then expanded view doesn't fit the window either. So I have to scroll anyway
18:27:00 <planetmaker> little gain there, I think. I could scroll right away to the proper place in those cases
18:27:46 <frosch123> ok, maybe something like this: expand all only once when typing the first char into the box
18:27:51 <Alberth> if only we could right-click on scrollbars to go to that position :p
18:28:05 <frosch123> after that allow expanding/collapsing manually, but never do it automatically again
18:28:20 <planetmaker> frosch123, so when I unfilter, I have to click 'expand all' to set the one setting I didn't filter for?
18:28:29 <frosch123> that allows both, navigating without using the filter, and keeping user-expansion/collapsion while changing the filter
18:28:45 <planetmaker> yes, that's what I'd like :-)
18:29:47 <Alberth> make planetmaker happy then :)
18:30:05 <planetmaker> :D of course I only defend the way *I* use the adv. settings ;-)
18:30:44 <Alberth> the filter functionality itself is much more important imho, if the list is too long type more words :)
18:30:45 <frosch123> i am working as software developer, i am all for lame compromises :p
18:31:24 <frosch123> it's totally inconsistent, but it fits all typical usecases
18:32:36 <planetmaker> hm, I like consistency, but... yes :-)
18:32:45 <planetmaker> I guess I'm not consistent myself :-P
18:33:31 <Alberth> it's normal human behavior :p
18:41:43 <frosch123> hmm, did we stop sorting the changelog alphabetically?
18:42:26 <frosch123> for 1.3 it all seems to be by date, while for 1.2 and older it is alphabetical
18:42:39 <Zuu> I had no idea it was alphabetically and assumed new entries was added to the bottom.
18:43:02 <frosch123> maybe it's different for game an ai :p
18:44:10 <Alberth> yeah, let's have different policies to confuse everybody :)
18:44:22 * planetmaker would intuitively sort by whatever categories I could find ;-)
18:44:51 <Zuu> Well, it's sorted, but by date :-)
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20:53:07 <frosch123> planetmaker: expanded on the gui page
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