IRC logs for #opendune on OFTC at 2010-01-18
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00:00:21 <Xaroth> hopefully with 0.2 we can get some proper attention
00:00:33 <tb2> that will slowly get there
00:00:42 <tb2> but we have a long road ahead ....
00:00:49 <Xaroth> and a full replacement to go :)
00:02:38 <tb2> but ... we are getting there :) Bit by bit ;)
00:04:21 <Xaroth> and we have some fun things ahead
00:04:43 <tb2> I am looking forward replacing the libEMU SDL calls with real SDL ..
00:05:13 <Xaroth> networking will be fun :P
00:05:22 <Xaroth> but we most likely have to replace just about everything for it :P
00:05:23 <tb2> that is far far far away :(
00:05:30 <tb2> adding lua will be fun too
00:05:35 <tb2> even more if we do that 'the right way'
00:05:44 <Xaroth> yeh, and somewhat 'doable' for people like me :P
00:06:03 <tb2> well, in OpenTTD my attempts so far are not 'the right way'
00:06:05 <tb2> too specific for one task
00:06:14 <tb2> it would be nice if it would be more general, and can be used for all kind of shit
00:06:28 <tb2> see .. if one would design a game now, one wouldn't even consider using a script engine for EACH AND EVERY UNIT
00:06:33 <tb2> as it would be VERY VERY slow
00:06:41 <tb2> you do that in the source language, for the speed
00:06:51 <tb2> but Dune2 already did it with a script engine .. and as such, it is limited in amounts of vehicles
00:07:03 <Xaroth> instead you do the interface with scripting, so people can cuztomize
00:07:03 <tb2> so we have a lot of playing ground here to extend that, keep it speedy, and still put something amazing
00:07:13 <Xaroth> (like wow, and supreme commander and many more)
00:07:20 <tb2> a nice idea, to do the interfacing in scripts
00:07:30 <tb2> with sufficient callbacks, that should be relative easy
00:08:11 <tb2> the most fun part about the current script stuff, is that it allows easy MMOing of Dune2
00:08:26 <tb2> you put up a cluster of units, where each communicate with a world server
00:08:41 <tb2> in OpenTTD I tried several approaches to allow mega-maps, but moving of objects was always a problem
00:08:53 <Xaroth> what would be fun, at some point, is what ottd did.. battle of the ais :)
00:08:57 <tb2> because units in Dune2 are 'separate' from the map, this is possible
00:09:06 <tb2> that would be the 'easy' job
00:09:07 <Xaroth> 1 big map, 20 players, 20 ais, have fun!
00:09:13 <tb2> we first need to 'hack' out all the current AI stuff
00:09:23 <Xaroth> that'll be a bitch to do though
00:09:25 <tb2> extend the max amount of houses (a lot)
00:09:31 <tb2> yeah .. there are tons of 'hacks'
00:09:33 <Xaroth> extend EVERYTHING.. a lot :P
00:09:37 <tb2> but then again, so had OpenTTD
00:09:41 <tb2> and I managed to remove all of them too ;)
00:09:53 <tb2> but okay .. baby steps .. baby steps ... first we still have 87% to do ...
00:09:56 <Xaroth> unit caps and building caps should be among the first to go too :)
00:10:12 <tb2> which means we need to have ALL the unit calls out of the decompiled/
00:10:27 <tb2> which most likely means we C-ified 90% :p
00:10:42 <tb2> although I like that I now have the GameLoop_Main in C
00:10:50 <tb2> as that really is a 'start' function
00:11:14 <tb2> but okay .. lots to do :)
00:11:26 <tb2> by the looks, I have free time these months ... so we will see ;)
00:11:35 <tb2> enjoy work .. I have to work too ... in 3 days we have to deliver a website
00:11:47 <tb2> estimate amount of work: 40 hours
00:11:54 <tb2> so I am going to take several shortcuts, I promise you that
00:12:01 <Xaroth> 5 days, 40 hours, you can do it! :P
00:12:26 <Xaroth> that's why if my boss asks how long something will take, I always add some 'margin'
00:12:43 <tb2> I always double the time I estimate
00:12:57 <Xaroth> especially if it's towards customers
00:12:59 <tb2> but my boss tends to 'forget' that
00:13:20 <tb2> so I tell him: it will take me 20 hours real time. So say: 40 hours for the customer
00:13:36 <tb2> then he goes there and says: 40 hours, but I am sure we can do it in 20 if you like? No, no extra charge
00:13:38 <Xaroth> and then he tells the customer 10 hours :P
00:13:57 <Xaroth> yeh, I just tell my boss a bit longer :P
00:13:59 <tb2> so I am now telling my boss: 40 hours, so say 80 to the customer :p
00:14:10 <Xaroth> if it's 20 hours, i tell my boss 30, and he tells the customer 40
00:14:15 <tb2> but 40 hours mean 40 WORKING hours
00:14:22 <tb2> not ... 5 days including a weekend
00:14:41 <Xaroth> fortunately my boss is smart enough to figure that one out
00:14:44 <tb2> (I work 60 hours a month on paper)
00:15:19 <Xaroth> I don't mind staying until 4am for something important
00:15:39 <tb2> but okay .. movie is extracted, so I wish you all a very good night :)
00:15:45 <tb2> Xaroth: it was a nice battle, I liked my loot :p
08:20:50 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs
10:31:02 <tb2> how is SmatZ doing today? :)
10:34:00 <tb2> I have like 30 minutes before I need to get to work ... read: do shopping, eat, go to work ;)
10:34:06 <tb2> so lets do some OpenDUNE stuff :p
10:36:39 <tb2> sometimes it uses Unit / Structure as if it is one type .. annoying ..
10:40:39 <Xaroth> does C have object inheritance?
10:40:51 <tb2> not in the way you mean it, no
10:41:06 <tb2> what we most likely have to do, is get the first part of the struct out, call it 'Common' or what ever
10:41:10 <tb2> and include that as first part
10:41:59 <Xaroth> btw, stop giving me crazy ideas :P
10:42:07 <Xaroth> i just spent half an hour mindlessly browsing the eve forums
10:42:17 <Xaroth> for API libraries for php :P
10:42:36 <tb2> I haven't yet, and I was proud on that fact ;)
10:42:47 <tb2> but I do wonder what the API gives, information-wise
10:43:29 <Xaroth> cache time, key requirement, uri, sample output
10:43:33 <Xaroth> everything you need, basically
10:44:00 <Xaroth> and links to every library and it's granny
10:46:28 <DorpsGek> SVN: truebrain (r820) -Add: C-ified GameLoop_Main()
10:46:42 <tb2> there, that should keep a few people busy ... 'guess the function' ;)
10:47:35 <tb2> there are like 20 unknown functions in there
10:56:02 <tb2> my decompiler starts to do weird shit
10:56:37 <Xaroth> doesn't love you anymore?
10:57:08 <tb2> it just introduced a new function, of which he claims is called, and I can't find it :p
10:57:35 <tb2> ah, chain reaction it seems ...
10:58:42 <DorpsGek> SVN: truebrain (r821) -Codechange: clean up r820 a bit
11:02:43 <tb2> LOL! Isanity: long cache style pages can only be requested once (!)
11:06:19 <tb2> yes, but so if you launch 2 applications, only one can fetch the data
11:06:25 <tb2> that is just insane, silly, and stupid
11:07:07 <Xaroth> but not much is on long style
11:07:29 <Xaroth> or at least, stuff that is on long you don't want to be pulled that much anyhow
11:07:49 <Xaroth> asset list for one, is most likely very heavy on the cluster
11:07:50 <tb2> hmm .. in the static dump are not listed the skills
11:08:06 <tb2> you can request it ingame all the time, so they should shut up :p
11:08:14 <tb2> either way, a cache I don't mind, I can understand that
11:08:20 <Xaroth> your client caches most stuff as well
11:08:22 <tb2> what I do mind, is that you can only request the file once ...
11:08:33 <tb2> which means: 1 application per user
11:08:59 <Xaroth> eve's one of few games who actually have a working api :P
11:09:04 <Xaroth> one that works, at least
11:09:08 <tb2> well, that does suprise me, yes
11:09:39 <tb2> there is a lot of information .. that is for sure
11:10:01 <Xaroth> though it's happened more than once that the cluster suffered from extreme performance hits due to the API
11:10:24 <Xaroth> they had to shut it down over the weekend a couple of times
11:10:50 <Xaroth> there's thousands of people constantly querying it
11:10:56 <tb2> but okay ... I managed to put a 80386 as a webserver with 6M hits a day ... running smooth ...
11:11:14 <tb2> just a good caching, and all was well
11:11:27 <Xaroth> I think 6m hits a day is a quiet day for the API :P
11:11:40 <Xaroth> i mean, every 5 minutes a status query
11:11:58 <Xaroth> every hour 1-2 queries per character
11:12:00 <tb2> a httpd like lighttpd can deliver cache pages in such a fast time .... you won't believe it ;)
11:12:19 <tb2> makes 100,000 request an hour
11:12:22 <tb2> that is absolutely nothing
11:12:31 <Xaroth> 50000 players is less than PCU :P
11:12:37 <Xaroth> i'd go for around 80-90k players
11:12:47 <tb2> makes 200k an hour ... makes 5M a day
11:13:02 <Xaroth> plus other stuff, like status queries
11:13:09 <Xaroth> 12 per hour per player
11:13:15 <tb2> openttd.org is handling 1M a day .. I mean .. come on!
11:13:35 <tb2> even with 100M a day, it is managable
11:13:35 <Xaroth> I agree that it's a bit silly
11:13:48 <Xaroth> but it -can- pose issues at some point :)
11:14:00 <tb2> I am going to do some shopping
11:17:12 <tb2> Xaroth: can you get me a ship? I want the Polaris Legatus ;)
12:02:48 <Xaroth> but that was ISD people showing off that we broke the 40k PCU or something silly
12:03:19 <Xaroth> you have the people who do the player-news, they fly around in them things
12:03:58 <tb2> they are claimed to be indestrucutable
12:04:19 <Xaroth> 99.99% resistances, that is, if you can lock them, as they are unlockable :P
12:04:20 <tb2> I was reading the skill set .. you need lvl5 Polaris skill ... but that skill depends on lvl5 Polaris skill
12:07:15 <Xaroth> yeh, unpublished skills ftw
12:07:48 <Xaroth> dunno, haven't checked the datadump lately
12:08:15 <Xaroth> you can do a query on all items in a specific item group (skillbook), with the published bit to 0
12:09:27 <tb2> hmm .. skillbook, of course
12:09:36 <tb2> you can query the skilltree via the live API
12:09:42 <tb2> which is a bit suprising to me
12:09:56 <tb2> (it is not like it changes all the time)
12:10:20 <Xaroth> the original api was made with evemon in mind
12:10:33 <Xaroth> seeing for a long while evemon was the only app that actually showed your character sheet
12:10:38 <Xaroth> long before ther ewas an api
12:11:40 <Xaroth> er, logging in on the website, going to 'my character', there's a link saying 'show xml'
12:11:49 <Xaroth> now it just links to your api
12:12:16 <Xaroth> bit dodgy, to say the least
12:15:28 <Xaroth> hm, reading all this i'm more interested in making a R&D application for eve
17:48:43 <Xaroth> stargate files corrupt
18:11:32 <Xaroth> 3 seasons, dvd edition
18:13:19 <tb2> was thinking about the game :p
23:27:37 <Xaroth> @calc (180 / 0.6) / 60
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