IRC logs for #opendune on OFTC at 2009-12-23
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08:35:06 <TrueBrain> the last commit canbe confusing the first time, when it doesnt' change when you change revision
08:35:19 <TrueBrain> and in the log, you can only press the revision .. I tried clicking the name, which failed :p
08:51:04 <Xaroth> the 'last' commit should change when you change the revision? :o
08:51:11 <Xaroth> that makes no sense :P
08:52:35 <Xaroth> I was tempted to add a link on the username in the log
08:53:06 <Xaroth> so that it would incrementally search the last 10 revisions for the changes that person made
08:53:10 <Xaroth> until it finds an X amount
08:54:36 <Xaroth> note that 'home' can be changed to either changelog, log, or devpatch
09:10:05 <TrueBrain> no, I didn't mean to change 'ast' commit when you change revision
09:10:21 <TrueBrain> I merely suggested that you don't expect that 'last' commit is there, and it gives more frustration then it adds to the interface :)
09:11:22 <TrueBrain> (walk a bit through revisions, and you will notice :)
09:21:45 <Xaroth> that can be fixable tho :)
09:22:11 <Xaroth> I'll make the block hidden by default
09:23:15 <TrueBrain> it is okay at a few pages .. just not all
09:25:25 <Xaroth> I take it you also noticed the strategic placement of the << and >> buttons in changelog?
09:30:41 <TrueBrain> didn't notice it, so I guess they are at a logic place ;)
09:31:03 <Xaroth> there's a pagination list at top and bottom
09:48:54 <Xaroth> their trailers are getting better and better :o
09:49:47 <TrueBrain> and reflect less and less the game itself
09:49:55 <Xaroth> true, but the eye wants something
09:50:09 <Xaroth> and they aren't using that much special stuff
09:50:18 <Xaroth> I mean, it's not Mr T with his night-elf mohawk
09:50:36 <Xaroth> and graphics on full settings does look that good :P
09:50:52 <Xaroth> maybe ana fter filter or two over it to give it a subtle extra effect
10:13:36 <TrueBrain> What 'module' gives you the stats about ships like that? In those white rectangles? :p
10:21:42 <Xaroth> I would kill to have that ingame tho
10:22:18 <Xaroth> the autocannon bullets you see is also filtered in
10:22:46 <Xaroth> but I think that's mainly because you can normally only see missiles and laz0rs, and not all other weapons
10:24:27 <Xaroth> well it makes combat rather unappealing, if you can only see 2 weapons :P
10:24:31 <Xaroth> when there's.. a lot more
10:47:39 <TrueBrain> one document done, one more to go ...
10:48:48 <TrueBrain> I dislike writing SADs :p
10:48:55 <TrueBrain> so ... over-the-top
10:49:00 <TrueBrain> Software Architecture Document
10:49:07 <Xaroth> good luck with that :P
10:49:12 <TrueBrain> so ... a very well documentation about a system
10:49:19 <TrueBrain> which, while implementing, turns out to be useless
10:49:32 <TrueBrain> it is good to think about something .. but you can go too far without really writing it :p
10:56:07 <TrueBrain> and it is so tempting to do NOTHING
10:56:10 <TrueBrain> as I want HOLIDAY too!!!!
10:56:21 <Xaroth> tomorrow afternoon it'l start for me
10:56:38 <TrueBrain> I will have on a Saturday .. and that is about it ....
10:56:56 <TrueBrain> I have so much work ....
10:57:22 <TrueBrain> I am going to make a xmas dinner on saturday .. the rest I will be working, working, working
12:10:52 <TrueBrain> second document also done for today .. that went relative quick
12:11:36 <TrueBrain> now first a bit of relaxing, before continuing with the other jobs ....
12:11:47 <TrueBrain> at least I can play EVE :p /me laughs at Xaroth :p
12:12:35 <TrueBrain> lol,a t night, 45k players .. now .. 10k players
12:17:50 <Xaroth> and my work pc is more than capable of playing eve :P
12:18:31 <Xaroth> ugh, stupid SIDN with their silly projects
13:15:38 <TrueBrain> with a bit of money, you can skip most missions :p
13:15:43 <TrueBrain> I even still gain money ...
13:16:00 <TrueBrain> yeah .. mine this, mine that
13:16:03 <TrueBrain> produce this, produce that
13:16:17 <TrueBrain> the time bonus is mostly of such size, it is easier to buy it from the market
13:16:21 <TrueBrain> at the local station :p
13:16:27 <Xaroth> btw, keep in mind that if you abort missions in progress you lose standing with that faction, if you do not accept 2 missions within 4 hours of eachother, you also lose standing
13:16:56 <TrueBrain> I just did 5 missions .. now on my way back .. dropoff missions sucks :p
13:23:17 <Xaroth> easy money if you compare risk/reward :)
13:23:25 <Xaroth> fly to a, then back, make money
13:23:37 <Xaroth> no need to shoot anything
13:23:41 <Xaroth> no need to get shot at
13:48:16 <TrueBrain> stupid mac, can't easily install Django
13:48:23 <TrueBrain> so ... I need to boot my linux machine :p
13:53:02 <TrueBrain> Reactivate your account for five days for free! Get five days of EVE Online, the Zephyr holiday ship and 9.95 for your first month when you resubscribe!
13:53:07 <TrueBrain> NOW they come with that ...
13:56:28 <TrueBrain> but now I am running with this trial account ..
13:56:39 <Xaroth> so? transfer the money :)
13:56:40 <TrueBrain> so I can now either continue an existing account of which I don't know the state ..
13:56:47 <TrueBrain> it might or might not contain the lovely goodies
13:56:50 <Xaroth> that is a question indeed
13:56:52 <TrueBrain> and I don't know how the training is ..
13:57:04 <TrueBrain> well, of course, it can't be worse ..
13:57:51 <TrueBrain> but it is also nice to follow those tutorials for once :p
13:58:36 <TrueBrain> on the other hand .. I can active the account for 5 days, and see what is in it ...
13:59:00 <Xaroth> i -think- you get the 5 days as soon as you resub
13:59:06 <Xaroth> ie, you get the month you pay for + 5 days
13:59:06 <TrueBrain> just activated it :p
14:02:28 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, my Bestower ...
14:06:38 <TrueBrain> nothing else, really
14:07:28 <Xaroth> stick with the one you like then :P
14:07:46 <TrueBrain> it has a lot of skills in the starship section
14:07:52 <TrueBrain> all lvl5, for most frigates
14:08:03 <Xaroth> er, and still just 1m sp?
14:08:06 <TrueBrain> (hence the capability to run a 10k m^3 cargo ship
14:08:15 <Xaroth> meh, industrial 3 isn't hard to train :P
14:08:29 <TrueBrain> but okay .. that account just sucks :p
14:08:32 <TrueBrain> I like my new more :)
14:08:37 <TrueBrain> just I want the ship :p
14:08:44 <Xaroth> then stick with the new :P
14:08:53 <Xaroth> get old account, get in ship, fly to where your new account is
14:09:10 <TrueBrain> is tha tpossible while one is offline?
14:09:29 <Xaroth> er, by contract, i think
14:10:15 <TrueBrain> I can't give me skills away, right? :p
14:11:51 <TrueBrain> well, maybe tomorrow I will see if I can get them both at the same place :p
14:11:56 <TrueBrain> dunno if it is worth the trouble ..
14:12:11 <TrueBrain> all I remember about that ship, is that one run gained 500k ISK for simple cargo ..
14:12:16 <TrueBrain> that is what I loved about it
14:13:05 <TrueBrain> never dared to enter space < 0.6 :p
14:14:56 <TrueBrain> oh well, a bit more work now first
14:16:59 <TrueBrain> I once went through 0.0 space, because I had to
14:17:26 <TrueBrain> I somehow was very scared losing that ship .. no wonder, as I had to pay a lot of of ISKs for it :p
14:17:51 <TrueBrain> then it took for ever to get enough money to buy enough to fill the whole cargobay
14:18:29 <TrueBrain> and then there is you, whom just randomly wastes a few ships in simple battles :p
14:18:50 <Xaroth> lost a 20m ship and a 130m ship
14:19:04 <TrueBrain> either way .. so far I still don't see what is fun enough in this game to play it daily .. it sounds rather dull after a while ..
14:19:35 <Xaroth> I don't play it daily :)
14:19:42 <Xaroth> i just play quite a bit :)
14:19:55 <TrueBrain> I don't get what you do all that time :p
14:23:38 <Xaroth> there are npc spawns at asteroid belts
14:23:50 <Xaroth> the lower sec you go, the higher average value of those spawns
14:24:20 <TrueBrain> that sounds like a fun thing to try ;)
14:24:30 <Xaroth> 0.0 can have tripple-battleship spawns worth >1.5m a piece
14:24:31 <TrueBrain> any place you can recommend?
14:24:40 <TrueBrain> haha, if you can defeat them ....
14:24:45 <Xaroth> er, start out in 0.7 space
14:24:56 <Xaroth> fly to random asteroid field, check for npcs, if none, check next
14:25:14 <Xaroth> fight a few, kill a few, once you get confident move down a bit, until you get to 0.5
14:25:37 <Xaroth> then it's a matter of upgrading your skills to be able to fly better ships
14:25:59 <TrueBrain> so many ships .. so many options ...
14:26:37 <Xaroth> for missions I would recommend getting a Drake.. they are caldari battlecruisers (won't take too long to train even as a non-caldari) with a passive shieldtank (meaning no active shieldbooster, just passive regen and a ton of it)
14:26:58 <Xaroth> I would also recommend staying away from pvp until you're trained up a bit
14:27:13 <Xaroth> mining you can do easily if you can equip mining lasers
14:27:33 <Xaroth> if you want to spec in that, there are 2 separate mining ship classes, the mining barges (tech-1), and exhumers (tech-2)
14:27:45 <Xaroth> they use strip miners, which require more skill, but are quite a bit more efficient
14:27:48 <TrueBrain> mining is boring :p
14:28:15 <Xaroth> yep, but it's a steady income, ish
14:28:35 <Xaroth> with fighting you can get a day where you only get shit spawns or shit missions
14:28:44 <Xaroth> and make almost no money.. mining is more steady in that way
14:28:49 <TrueBrain> isnt it more worth moving stuff from A to B?
14:28:51 <Xaroth> plus you can combine it somewhat with industry
14:29:10 <TrueBrain> those blueprints are driving me crazy, already ...
14:29:15 <Xaroth> moving stuff from A to B means you have to have a buffer to pay it from, and luck that by the time you get to B it's not dropped in price
14:29:19 <TrueBrain> N copies, N production, resitrction here, restriction there :p
14:29:38 <Xaroth> you have BPO's and BPC's, Originals and Copies
14:29:44 <Xaroth> Copies have a limited amount of runs
14:29:53 <TrueBrain> how many originals are there?
14:30:06 <Xaroth> for Tech-1 you can buy them on the npc market from the factions that make them
14:30:13 <Xaroth> aka, you can't buy amarr ships in minmatar space
14:30:29 <Xaroth> Tech2 BPO's are no longer available
14:30:43 <Xaroth> there used to be some kind of 'chance' based system where you could get one
14:30:56 <Xaroth> however, you CAN use invention to turn T1 bpcs into T2 bpcs
14:30:59 <Xaroth> takes time and money ofcourse
14:31:15 <Xaroth> around 700 million to get everything to get you going
14:31:26 <Xaroth> but the T1 market has a limited amount of profit margin
14:31:38 <Xaroth> IE, prices in empire are usually <cost to build>+1-5%
14:31:53 <Xaroth> and 1% on a 300k ship isn't a whole lot :P
14:32:06 <TrueBrain> so how you get T2 BPOs?
14:32:12 <Xaroth> er, buy them from other players
14:32:20 <Xaroth> but.. that's expensive :P
14:32:33 <Xaroth> there are T2 bpos that were traded back in the day for billions
14:32:46 <Xaroth> and some (like T2 rocket bpos) for not even 1 billion
14:33:23 <TrueBrain> so if you have a T2 BPO, you are rich? :p
14:33:37 <Xaroth> rich being relative, but you'll have money.. yes
14:33:45 <Xaroth> profit margin on T2 is usually >5%
14:33:54 <Xaroth> but T2 prices are often higher anyways
14:33:56 <TrueBrain> you can make a BPC from a BPO, I assume?
14:34:09 <Xaroth> you can take a BPO and create copies of em
14:34:10 <TrueBrain> so with a T2 BPO you have something unique, if I get you right?
14:34:30 <Xaroth> there are multiple of each type of T2 BPO, but yes, quite unique
14:34:53 <TrueBrain> how are new things created then? A select amount of people are given a T2 BPO?
14:35:12 <Xaroth> they changed that system when datacores were introduced
14:35:25 <Xaroth> Datacores you get from R&D agents
14:35:32 <Xaroth> which are agents from corps you need to get standing at
14:35:33 <TrueBrain> I have one .. no idea what to do with it :p
14:35:39 <Xaroth> at which point you can ask them to join your team
14:35:52 <Xaroth> while they are on your 'team' you gather research points every day
14:36:00 <Xaroth> 1 datacore costs 50 points
14:36:23 <Xaroth> ie, if you have 5 agents you have a steady income of money (technically, as you still have to pick them up and sell them)
14:37:15 <Xaroth> Mechanical Engineering datacores, for instance, are 300k a piece
14:37:25 <TrueBrain> my head spins ... tonight I will read a bit on the web .. too much info ..... :p
14:37:26 <Xaroth> iirc I have 2 or 3 agents each giving me around 50 points per day
14:37:30 <TrueBrain> too much complexity in this game :p
14:37:35 <Xaroth> so technically I make 1 million a day
14:37:44 <TrueBrain> but you never do anything with it? :p
14:37:52 <Xaroth> i just let them gather
14:38:09 <Xaroth> every now and then i pick them up and dump them in the corp hagnar
14:38:17 <Xaroth> so RaTTuS can do invention
14:38:23 <Xaroth> and make us pwetty T2 ships :P
14:38:30 <Xaroth> T3 is a whole different can of trouble, btw :P
14:38:37 <Xaroth> as that requires stuff from W-space
14:38:40 <TrueBrain> too much complexity .....
14:38:45 <Xaroth> (W-space being the active term for WormHole space)
14:38:54 <TrueBrain> and they are unstable ... lol :p
14:38:58 <Xaroth> well, this is EVE yer talking about, not WoW :P
14:39:12 <TrueBrain> yeah .. but what I really hate, is that there isnt a clear overview of such things
14:39:23 <TrueBrain> the ingame tutorials are fast, short, and not really explaining things you want to know
14:39:25 <Xaroth> the wiki (wiki.eveonline.com) has a lot of info
14:39:29 <TrueBrain> the knowledge base is insane ....
14:39:43 <TrueBrain> I like just someone explaining to me like you do :p That I can follow ;)
14:40:17 <TrueBrain> but okay .. I first work now .. tonight .. I play some more :p
14:40:34 <Xaroth> seeing i'm at work.. etc :o
14:40:35 <TrueBrain> I need to design a backend system for a XUL frontend
15:42:12 <TrueBrain> /* In case the above function failed and we are passed campaign 2, don't add the unit */ <- no longer a valid comment
15:42:58 <TrueBrain> are you sure it is & 0xC000?
15:43:02 <TrueBrain> a packed tile is 12 bits ..
15:43:08 <TrueBrain> so that should be 0xF000? :s
15:43:33 <glx> I think it checks it's not an encoded index
15:46:12 <glx> anyway dune2 does check in a strange order, like get tile "type", then check the position is valid
15:47:03 <TrueBrain> as long as we fix that ;)
15:48:14 <glx> then in the check for connected structure it doesn't check position validity at all
15:49:42 <DorpsGek> SVN: glx (r808) -Add: named and C-ified Map_IsValidPosition()
16:00:34 <Xaroth> them colours on the changelog diff display need to be slightly.. tweaked
16:00:43 <Xaroth> pink and light green O_O
16:01:55 <Xaroth> and I noticed the diffifier has some issues o-O
16:04:49 <Xaroth> and fixed the issue :o
16:16:00 <Xaroth> ugh, evidently, pink looks the least crap
19:17:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o TrueBrain
20:22:38 <TrueBrain> finally done with work
20:23:44 *** Xaroth sets mode: +o TrueBrain
20:29:49 <TrueBrain> now lets read stuff about EVE
20:30:21 <Xaroth> you can always ask in the rookie channel
20:30:23 <Xaroth> often useful info there
20:35:18 <TrueBrain> yeah, but also a lot of noise
20:35:30 <TrueBrain> I once tried to ask about T2 stuff .... answers were not useful :p
20:49:46 <TrueBrain> how often are warp jammers used?
20:51:39 <Xaroth> only way to make sure your opponent doesn't run off :)
20:51:53 <TrueBrain> damn, I hate reading white on black
20:51:56 <TrueBrain> it is the worst colour possible
21:05:37 <Xaroth> anyways, what say ye re: svndune? :o
21:06:04 <Xaroth> what say ye, re: svndune
21:06:10 <Xaroth> ye olde english, etc :P
21:06:45 <TrueBrain> still not following what you try to ask
21:06:54 <Xaroth> replace websvn or not :P
21:08:08 <TrueBrain> can you hide Last Commit when you are browsing through revisions?
21:08:14 <TrueBrain> or at least make it non-connecting
21:08:48 <TrueBrain> rest looks fine, so replace all you like :p
21:09:26 <glx> prev/next for diffs is more than enough for me ;)
21:09:37 <Xaroth> hah, you're an easy person to please, glx :P
21:09:55 <TrueBrain> I am going to play a bit of EVE :p
21:10:01 <TrueBrain> see if I can shoot down some ass :p
21:17:13 <TrueBrain> what use do certificates have?
21:19:12 <Xaroth> no, but you unlock them automatically if you have the prereqs
21:19:17 <Xaroth> you can then just claim all
21:19:54 <Xaroth> svn.opendune.org replaced
21:20:12 <Xaroth> added another cronjob in cron.daily to make sure smarty doesn't go nuts
21:20:19 <Xaroth> not that I expect it to do much, but still
21:21:53 <Xaroth> btw, made the rss feed link to changelog by default
21:22:07 <Xaroth> can be changed to log, ofcourse, but i see no reason for that
21:52:47 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: lighttpd error logs are crazy o_O
22:16:55 <Xaroth> 2009-12-23 21:40:22: (mod_fastcgi.c.2610) FastCGI-stderr: "" is not a valid magic thingie for "if"
22:17:01 <Xaroth> "" is not a valid magic thingie for "ifeq"
22:17:06 <Xaroth> and a dozen more of those lines
22:20:29 <Xaroth> btw, TrueBrain, so you know as well, the devpatch viewer turns the url into a local machine dir (/home/~<developer>/public_html/<file> (disallowing ../), and tries to parse that as a diff
22:20:34 <Xaroth> in case you see any odd errors
22:20:57 <Xaroth> it fitlers on ".." , so temp..patch will be ignored as well
22:21:05 <Xaroth> I rather have it more safe than less secure.
22:22:58 <Xaroth> and I see no way to turn a fopen into something harmful, especially with .. disabled
22:23:18 <Xaroth> I also changed the max mem usage for php back to 64mb
22:23:47 <Xaroth> which is still double of the max I ever used :P
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