IRC logs for #opendune on OFTC at 2009-11-30
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00:26:52 <Xaroth> i'm off to bed as well, gnight glx
05:04:48 *** Xaroth_ has joined #openDune
08:46:03 *** Xaroth_ is now known as Xaroth
13:24:47 *** boekabart has left #openDune
16:03:53 <DorpsGek> SVN: glx (r641) -Add: named and C-ified Tile_GetDistanceRoundedUp()
16:27:16 <DorpsGek> SVN: glx (r642) -Cleanup: function_names.txt still contained some functions no longer in decompiled
17:59:00 <TrueBrain> please make it House *h
17:59:03 <TrueBrain> makes more sense in my opinion :)
17:59:44 <TrueBrain> missing newline in emu_structure.c btw :)
18:15:12 <Xaroth> they removed discovery from the non-digital broadcast list
18:15:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Xaroth
18:22:13 <DorpsGek> SVN: glx (r643) -Add: C-ified Structure_GetStructuresBuilt()
20:10:42 <TrueBrain> "Tomorrow is today yesterday" "Today is tomorrow yesterday" .. I love such sentences :)
20:34:33 <Xaroth> that would be counterproductive :P
20:52:45 <TrueBrain> lol, reading through hacks for xbox360, hardware hacks, like having your own OS on it and stuff
20:52:56 <TrueBrain> solution: cut the data bus from southbridge to nand, and put your own nand there :p
20:53:00 <TrueBrain> genious in its simplicity
20:53:56 <SmatZ> you replace nand by nand and it starts working?
20:54:01 <TrueBrain> you just had to cut a busline .. which is less nice to do (6 tin wires, you need to cut one)
20:54:05 <SmatZ> like, was that old nand really nand?
20:54:14 <TrueBrain> well, you add your own nand, which takes over the old nand
20:54:20 <TrueBrain> only in your case the nand is a SSD :p
20:55:15 <SmatZ> I wonder how people come to these solutions :)
20:55:24 <TrueBrain> people with very indepth PCB knowledge
20:55:34 <TrueBrain> and good hardware knowledge
20:55:38 <TrueBrain> and A LOT of Xboxes to test on :p
20:55:46 <TrueBrain> some guys have 200 xboxes to test their stuff on ....
20:56:31 <TrueBrain> sadly, Microsoft fixed up this specific hack
20:56:57 <TrueBrain> yes ... I want to be able to play mkv on my xbox360 if you don't mind! :p
20:57:08 <TrueBrain> strangly enoguh, the hack was fixed by a software update
20:57:26 <SmatZ> [21:56:36] <TrueBrain> sadly, Microsoft fixed up this specific hack <== zomg, I added word "never" in your sentence
20:57:32 <SmatZ> "sadly, Microsoft never fixed up this specific hack"
20:57:46 <TrueBrain> nope, was no 'never' .. latest MS kernels fixes the problem :'(
20:58:36 <SmatZ> "I'm a PC" "And I'm Xbox" ... "You suck, Xbox" "I know xD"
20:58:52 <SmatZ> that's why I have PC ;)
20:59:03 <TrueBrain> I love that I don't have to upgrade my PC to play a new game
20:59:08 <TrueBrain> new games just work, as they are made for my xbox
20:59:21 <TrueBrain> and I love the wireless controls, and the easy access
20:59:30 <TrueBrain> but that you need to pay to go live, that just sucks ....
20:59:32 <SmatZ> somehow I don't miss it :)
21:00:23 <Xaroth> [@TrueBrain]: new games just work, as they are made for my xbox << that's because the games are frozen to the hardware/tech of when it came out :P
21:00:29 <Xaroth> whereas pcs are bleeding edge
21:00:37 <TrueBrain> which I dislike about PC games
21:00:43 <TrueBrain> I don't have an advantage video card
21:00:47 <SmatZ> just buy 5 years old games
21:00:47 <TrueBrain> so I can't even play CoD4 MW2 :(
21:00:53 <SmatZ> you don't have to do expensive upgrades
21:01:01 <TrueBrain> you read too much xkcd :)
21:04:14 <TrueBrain> all those exploits in fact are based on the idea that most chips allow writing to their instruction via certin ways
21:04:22 <TrueBrain> like a dvd, can be flashed when send the right code at boot
21:04:28 <TrueBrain> CPUs can receive microcode updates
21:04:33 <TrueBrain> Southbridges even do
21:04:49 <TrueBrain> this is to make development of hardware (much) easier, but also allows a whole range of exploits :p
21:06:16 <TrueBrain> no, MW2 is very good, the multiplayer even more
21:06:27 <TrueBrain> very nice XP tree, much better than MW1
21:06:30 <Xaroth> meh, I don't like their multiplayer concept
21:06:52 <TrueBrain> much much better than most games out there
21:06:58 <TrueBrain> it makes you want to play more and more and more :)
21:07:08 <TrueBrain> played with my roommates yesterday, I had so much fun
21:07:19 <TrueBrain> (I did .. they didn't :p)
21:10:20 <Xaroth> haha, jack black is awesome
21:10:24 <Xaroth> (watching enemy of the state)
21:15:40 * Xaroth goes try Dragon Age: Origins :o
21:15:54 <TrueBrain> reading through xbox specs
21:16:07 <TrueBrain> amazing how it differs in respect to security
21:16:26 <TrueBrain> the CPU has memory and ROM on die to decrypt (with a CPU key, unique for every machine) a piece of memory (from the NAND)
21:17:37 <TrueBrain> After that, the external (512MB) memory will be initialized and usable. 2BL
21:17:39 <TrueBrain> then decrypts the 4BL into this memory. Memory encryption will already be
21:17:40 <TrueBrain> enabled - no executable code is *ever* written unencrypted.
21:18:50 <Xaroth> android phones use it as well to prevent 'hacked roms' ..
21:19:17 <Xaroth> though in a somewhat different way
21:19:25 <Xaroth> and what the hell.. dragon age has G15 support :o
21:19:32 <TrueBrain> but this is just insane ... instead of a 3-stage boot what normal computers have, an xbox has 7 :s
21:20:33 <TrueBrain> I am really suprised the lengths they went through to ensure security
21:20:38 <TrueBrain> from the CPU on everything is protected
21:22:09 <TrueBrain> the CPU key is really a brilliant move
21:22:20 <TrueBrain> but I like most that kernel updates are not OS kernels, but really deep kernels
21:22:22 <TrueBrain> like the CPU one :p
21:22:32 <TrueBrain> it blows a fuse, and updates to a newer version
21:22:39 <TrueBrain> the blown up fuse ensures no older kernel can be booted
21:23:08 <Xaroth> as in, real hardware fuses?
21:23:27 <TrueBrain> real things that blow
21:23:32 <TrueBrain> that is an old old trick
21:23:40 <TrueBrain> mostly gave more trouble, but okay :p
21:24:09 <Xaroth> trouble my ass, it works and there's not much you can do against it :)
21:24:29 <TrueBrain> other fun facts: very first kernel did not encrypt everything with CPU key. The second did. They made it impossible to read a few things. But because they knew the CPU key from the first (and second via a stupid way), they could .. if that never happened, it would not have been broken :p
21:24:37 <TrueBrain> no, some consoles have troubles with it
21:24:42 <TrueBrain> a fuse blows where it shouldn't
21:24:46 <TrueBrain> leaving your console dead
21:25:00 <TrueBrain> either the xbox1 or the playstation2 had this problem, can't remember
21:25:23 <TrueBrain> hell, even the NES has the idea of fuses :p
21:28:37 <TrueBrain> haha, based on kernels they couldn't decode, the one below that they could, the hash the decoded should give, the size it should give, and some good guesses, they recovered newer kernels
21:28:42 <TrueBrain> some people are genious :)
21:35:43 <glx> I mean can this fuse stuff be the cause for some RROD (red ring of death)
21:35:53 <TrueBrain> xbox360 fuse system is pretty solid
21:36:04 <TrueBrain> I have not read any reports about fuses being blown which shouldn't have
21:36:33 <TrueBrain> most RROD without console modification come from bad connections
21:39:50 <TrueBrain> "Although there have been numerous software updates for Microsoft's gaming console in the past, this is the first one to overwrite the vital boot block. Any failure while updating this will break the Xbox 360 beyond repair. Statistics from other systems have shown that about one in a thousand bootloader updates goes wrong, and unless Microsoft has a novel solution to this problem, this puts tens of thousands of Xboxes at risk. "
21:42:30 <TrueBrain> still, PS3 did a good job allowing Linux ... PS3 is used more than often for his vector calculations
21:42:43 <glx> looks like one of the recent WII update
21:43:01 <TrueBrain> but okay ... the first bootloader is now crypted too, so those newer versions are not (yet) exploitable ..
21:43:04 <TrueBrain> just a matter of time, I guess
21:43:38 <TrueBrain> basicly, they left a 'debug' mode in the first bootloader .. now patched, it is time to find another way ;)
23:17:06 <Xaroth> and that's two dune references I found in the game so far
23:17:16 <Xaroth> one of the gray wardens, a close friend of the king, is called Duncan
23:17:31 <Xaroth> and they speak of Reverened mothers
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