IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-05-27
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00:04:22 <zirkon> I have an issue with music, I can't manage to get pipewire to set up the midi port to fluidsynth. Version is 13.1
00:04:31 <zirkon> Any help is appreciated
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04:51:24 <pickpacket> glx[d]: what was added to nml?
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08:18:06 <GeorgeVB> May be I should provide more informaton (wich one?) to get this fixed?
08:27:52 <andythenorth> GeorgeVB: the zip attached to 10763 doesn't use variant groups?
08:28:51 <andythenorth> nvm, needed to rescan grfs
08:29:30 <andythenorth> ok so the parent vehicle isn't buildable?
08:29:32 <andythenorth> how is that done?
08:32:23 <TrueBrain> that exception name .. lol .. `DecompressionBombError` ... just perfect ๐
08:33:35 <GeorgeVB> andythenorth: unbuildable vehicle with a separate id
08:34:33 <andythenorth> unbuildable = unavailable for climate?
08:34:36 <TrueBrain> grrr, I should run the CI before I approve stuff ๐
08:35:24 <andythenorth> ok yeah Horse has a specific variants problem also
08:35:32 <andythenorth> didn't notice until I tried xUSSR
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08:36:41 <Ahyangyi> TrueBrain: Perhaps I should squash my commits? Since the commit message checker checks each commit message...
08:36:50 <TrueBrain> you can; I can do that on merge too
08:37:10 <TrueBrain> honestly, it is becoming more and more annoying that we are this strict during PRs about commit messages .. I wonder if there isn't a better way .. but okay
08:37:21 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD's policy says you should squash and force-push, yes
08:37:38 <GeorgeVB> andythenorth: Yes, for all of them
08:37:41 <Ahyangyi> Oh, `bananas_api/new_upload/readers/heightmap.py:9:1: E402 module level import not at top of file`
08:38:57 <andythenorth> GeorgeVB: my guess is that autoreplace menu handles 'unavailable' differently to purchase menu
08:40:51 <GeorgeVB> It's a bug, difenitly
08:40:53 <Ahyangyi> "Dismissing reviews" seems to be the side effect of force pushing ๐
08:41:09 <TrueBrain> no, of any change ๐
08:41:17 <TrueBrain> we like an approval on the actual PR, not on some former version of it ๐
08:42:36 <Ahyangyi> Indeed; just get flake8 running locally as well, it should make further PRs* smoother
08:43:04 <TrueBrain> would be nice if someone (hint hint) could add the ability to update heightmaps, instead of creating a new one ๐
08:53:48 <jfs-> so re. the meetup, is it finally confirmed to happen on the 10th in Brussels?
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09:15:03 <andythenorth> hmm it's almost like we might want to expose variant level context to purchase menu sprite chain
09:15:29 <andythenorth> it makes sense to have compound groups with engines and coaches
09:15:54 <andythenorth> but when the group is closed, it's harder to spot the engine
09:16:00 <andythenorth> coaches just look like coaches
09:38:12 <TrueBrain> pff, I think I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel for the infra changes .. this was far more complex than I was hoping for. But, also a lot simpler, meaning less weird GitHub Actions scripts ๐
10:02:55 <glx[d]> pickpacket: Switch optimisations, a long time ago
10:56:24 <TallTyler> jfs-: Yes. I need to post something official and make an event here on Discord too. No use restricting it to only people who read GitHub discussionsโฆ
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11:12:48 <michi_cc[d]> So, this poses the question on who would be in Brussels in the evening, too. I canโt stay all Sunday, so I either have to whatever the latest flight on Saturday is back or stay the night and then return in the morning. Obviously the cost of a hotel night only make sense if enough people would be around in the evening.
11:35:31 <jfs-> I will probably take a bus arriving at 11:30 and then fly home at night
11:35:44 <jfs-> I think 21:30 flight or there about
12:20:33 <TallTyler> I could also stay the night, but will more likely take Thalys back to the Cologne area after dinner
12:23:25 <andythenorth> petern: shades of Doom 1?
12:42:02 <andythenorth> rust grf compiler when?
12:42:09 <andythenorth> (but it ingests nml) ๐
12:44:35 <andythenorth> ugh, maybe I can just improve the Horse compile
12:44:45 <andythenorth> it's spending 5s just rendering sprites
12:45:06 <andythenorth> 6.5s templating nml is even worse
12:48:32 <andythenorth> I can't trivially multi-process the nml because there'll be contention writing to a single nml file
12:48:42 <andythenorth> could fix that, but it's probably not worth the overhead
12:54:24 <andythenorth> well it's not IO
12:54:36 <andythenorth> looks like the first time a template is used there is a huge overhead compiling it to bytecode
12:54:58 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: I will be driving home after dinner too; and I guess that means 2 other dutchies will too (given I am driving them :D)
12:58:14 <TrueBrain> I didn't even ask for their opinion ๐ฎ that is evil .. I should first ๐
12:58:21 <TrueBrain> so let me rephrase: I plan to drive home after dinner too ๐
13:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so there's a direct flixbus trip, 9:30 each direction over night...
13:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd be arriving 8:55 and leaving 20:55
13:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure whether i want to commit to that
13:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, someone could pick me up at a place somewhere near the german border
13:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> all train journeys in that direction are completely weird
13:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and triple the price
13:45:13 <petern> andythenorth: on OSX when using Truetype fonts, does the `font` console command show the font style or just the font name?
13:46:53 <petern> That seems to be included. Is "Lato Bold" an option you could test?
13:46:53 <andythenorth> lol I never tried non-pixel font
14:04:16 <michi_cc[d]> TrueBrain: Okay, looks like staying doesnโt make much sense. Last flight for me would be 20:50 (thanks to the BER night curfew). No idea how busy/how much time you need to have for Brussels airport, but that would be 18:30 to 19:00 Iโd guess.
14:11:42 <TrueBrain> so early dinner, you say?
14:15:31 <michi_cc[d]> Somewhat. Iโm usually cutting it close on flights, but I have never flown from Brussels, so I donโt know if one can risk just one hour beforehand.
14:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> flying seems to make even less sense than train
14:17:07 <TrueBrain> michi_cc[d]: never flows from Brussels myself too, so can't help you there. Seen many airports, but that is not one of them ๐
14:18:43 <TrueBrain> but given you also have to travel to the airport, might be a bit tricky .. maybe better for you to dinner at the airport; just a bit sad that you can't join us in that case ...
14:19:25 <TrueBrain> either way, I wouldn't have any issues with an early dinner, where people who have to go, go ๐
14:19:37 <TrueBrain> no clue what TallTyler has in mind here ๐
14:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> is anyone travelling by car from anywhere within germany?
14:28:40 <michi_cc[d]> TrueBrain: City train station to airport is like 20 minutes according to Google.
14:29:16 <TrueBrain> dinner at 1600, you leave at 1800, should be fine? ๐
14:29:22 <michi_cc[d]> And deal is done. Not really a cheap day in Brussels, but YOLO and stuff ๐
14:29:50 <TrueBrain> these meetups are never cheap ๐
14:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the 25k party didn't cost me anything...
14:30:29 <TrueBrain> although this time it shouldn't cost me that much, given I have an electric car I can charge up with my solar panels ...
14:31:44 <TrueBrain> I could even drive back and forth without recharging .. but I think I will pick up some people, making that less likely ๐
14:32:13 <michi_cc[d]> I have no problem cutting it close. Iโll do some more research, but 1900 at the train station might be fine. So dinner not too far outside and it should be good.
14:32:58 <TrueBrain> well, Train World itself is next to .. a station. Shocking, I know right ๐
14:33:40 <michi_cc[d]> Just apparently not the one with the airport train.
14:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> probably easier to get someone to drive you to the airport
14:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> does the world end if it reaches 100%?
14:45:18 <andythenorth> didn't the last 50 times or so
14:56:10 <Wolf01> Funny, this morning I saw a train with only the engine and the tail coach... shortest train ever
14:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to have this kind of train regularly
14:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> quite a rare sight now since the switch to mainly multiple units
14:57:41 <glx[d]> mostly on low capacity lines
15:08:46 <jfs-> that sounds like exactly the situation where a railcar or MU makes more sense
15:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it was mostly a case of "we have this ancient rolling stock anyway". it's mostly gone now since contracts require new or almost new rolling stock now
15:11:55 <glx[d]> ok it seems to be "painful" to do GHSA stuff, the workflow is not very compatible with our usual workflow
15:13:01 <glx[d]> the PR doesn't run the checks
15:16:15 <TrueBrain> I would say, in this case, just PR it against master like normal
15:17:32 <glx[d]> I also feel the green "merge pull request" button in the advisory report won't squash nor rebase
15:18:09 <TrueBrain> It is very .. unclear indeed
15:18:31 <TrueBrain> It tries to keep all this code very private
15:19:03 <glx[d]> which is nice, but also complicated
15:29:04 <glx[d]> and of course now the hidden PR checks are started (it's the same run because same commit)
15:30:08 <petern> Whatever it is, this bug is so severe I don't get to see it :p
15:31:46 <glx[d]> you don't have access to security tab ?
15:32:06 <TrueBrain> I don't understand anything about that code or the fix .. so yolo? ๐
15:32:42 <glx[d]> basically squirrel use the upper bits as flag, and overflowing into the flags is bad
15:32:57 <andythenorth> yolo security fixes ๐
15:33:17 <petern> I can see the tab, but only Code scanning or Dependabot stuff.
15:33:46 <glx[d]> ah maybe only admins can see it without adding extra people
15:34:04 <glx[d]> well and andy as he reported it ๐
15:35:22 <TrueBrain> Do we need to check uploads to see if anyone misused it? I doubt it, but...
15:35:53 <glx[d]> they might have trigger memory limit first ๐
15:36:00 <TrueBrain> And realise that this means we should push 13.2 soon ๐
15:36:32 <andythenorth> do I get a cookie for guessing that squirrel would be our most likely RCE? ๐
15:36:37 <andythenorth> I mean...it's not hard to guess
15:36:38 <TrueBrain> Yeah, last time Squirrel had something like this, our memory management made it impossible to abuse ๐
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16:03:49 <TrueBrain> We talked enough about it already ๐
16:07:29 <glx[d]> but you detected some PushWord usages
16:11:14 <TrueBrain> Out of the ~5000 ๐
16:11:38 <TrueBrain> Didn't check if it is an active grf or anything btw; just wanted to know if the script worked ๐
16:11:55 <glx[d]> wondering if you could extract the strings to see what they do
16:12:17 <glx[d]> because I don't really see how to use pushword
16:13:52 <TrueBrain> I will see what I can do for you
16:16:04 <petern> Remove push word too did you say? :p
16:36:11 <TrueBrain> right, so I have 4 hits on pushword .. all 4 in dutch transets
16:36:28 <TrueBrain> `544d0201:f3e710b4`, `544d0201:85886ca3`, `5f5f0400:c2b9a6f5` and `fbfb0601:e167e847`
16:37:32 <TrueBrain> all 3 GRFs are active on BaNaNaS, so it is even activelly used ๐
16:41:59 <TrueBrain> ugh, I forgot how terrible NFO was to read ๐
16:42:51 <TrueBrain> best I can do for you glx[d] is tell you it is a string like this: `\xc3\x9e\xee\x82\x98Peso por Eje: \xee\x82\x90\xee\x82\x80\r\xee\x82\x98Tiempo de carga: \xee\x82\x90\xee\x82\x9a\x03 \xee\x82\x86\xee\x82\x86\xee\x81\xbb\xee\x82\x85 d\xc3\xada\xee\x82\x9a\x15\x82\xee\x82\x9a\x10\x01\xee\x82\x9a\x11s\xee\x82\x9a\x12\r\xee\x82\x98\xee\x82\x80`
16:43:06 <TrueBrain> I am sure it makes sense to someone ๐
16:43:58 <glx[d]> well you can blame utf8 on this one ๐
16:44:46 <TrueBrain> weirdly enough, it only seems to be in translated strings ๐
16:45:11 <TrueBrain> `๎๎emps de chargement : ๎๎ ๎๎๎ป๎
jour๎๏ฟฝ๎๎s๎` if you want to see it decoded ๐
16:45:42 <TrueBrain> all 3 GRFs are a copy of these strings
16:46:15 <TrueBrain> so that is the story of ext-ctrl-codes 0x03 ๐
16:47:19 <TrueBrain> the English string it seems to translate is `Loading Time: `
16:47:39 <glx[d]> yes translation seems fine
16:48:02 <TrueBrain> but where that is followed by 09 9A 03, these strings are followed by `"รฎ" 82 90 EE 82 9A 03`
16:48:05 <TrueBrain> I have no clue what this all means ๐
16:48:46 <TrueBrain> the german translation is fine
16:49:09 <TrueBrain> I have absolutely no clue what happened here, but it seems this is not intended to actually use pushword ๐
16:50:03 <TrueBrain> and make no mistake, this could be an error in our decoding ๐
16:50:43 <TrueBrain> `EE 82 98 "Temps de chargementร : รฎ" 82 90 EE 82 9A 03 20 20 EE 82 86 EE 82 86 EE 81 BB EE 82 85 " jourรฎ" 82 9A 15 82 EE 82 9A 10 01 EE 82 9A 11 73 EE 82 9A 12`
16:51:03 <TrueBrain> `98 "Loading " "Time: " 90 9A 03 20 20 86 86 7B 85 " day" 9A 15 82 9A 10 01 9A 11 73 9A 12` is the english variant
16:51:32 <TrueBrain> so yeah, encoding issue, it seems ๐
16:52:00 <TrueBrain> Private Use Character
16:53:04 <petern> We use E000 to E2FF but not EExx.
16:53:15 <TrueBrain> no, it seems someone saved these strings weirdly ๐
16:53:28 <TrueBrain> and the UTF-8 encoding took our lovely codepoints and made them in shit ๐
16:54:13 <TrueBrain> and as the strings are not marked as unicode, they are decoded as ascii
16:54:17 <TrueBrain> that is why the detection triggered ๐
16:54:34 <TrueBrain> so I would guess the translations also don't actually work ... ๐
16:54:44 <TrueBrain> so yeah, remove push-word? ๐ At least, there are no valid uses on BaNaNaS, it seems ๐
16:55:15 <glx[d]> oh that's why online utf8 decoder didn't like \xee
16:56:02 <TrueBrain> it is also UTF-16 .. so it is just weird
16:56:02 <glx[d]> BTW 98 is {BLACK} in newgrf world
16:56:20 <TrueBrain> but even grfcodec doesn't really know what to do with it
16:56:49 <glx[d]> grfcodec has an option to not try to print ascii
16:57:00 <TrueBrain> the whole French translation is like this btw
16:57:34 <TrueBrain> completely FUBAR (nice new Netflix serie btw :P)
16:57:46 <glx[d]> yeah I intend to watch it
16:57:56 <TrueBrain> it is surprisingly better than I expected
16:58:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, the whole translation is littered in EE 82 ๐
16:58:55 <TrueBrain> over a 1000 hits .. lol
16:59:05 <TrueBrain> 2660 hits, to be more exact
16:59:05 <glx[d]> hmm do they have a public repo ?
16:59:21 <TrueBrain> seems to hit 4 languages ๐
16:59:48 <glx[d]> let's see ingame, just for the fun
17:00:12 <glx[d]> dutch trainset you said ?
17:00:33 <TrueBrain> lol, made by FooBar, that is funny, sorry ๐
17:00:45 <TrueBrain> Dutch Trainset 2, is an example, yes
17:00:57 <TrueBrain> or Dutch Trainset 3XL
17:01:34 <TrueBrain> it is hosted on devzone .. so yeah ....
17:01:52 <glx[d]> so it most likely used eints
17:02:01 <TrueBrain> maybe frosch has the source ๐
17:02:07 <glx[d]> could be an nml bug too
17:02:32 <TrueBrain> it appears to be an UTF-16 encoding; I don't see a world that can be blamed to either tool honestly
17:03:26 <glx[d]> for some reason it seems to be fine
17:04:47 <glx[d]> let's try in debug with a breakpoint on 9A 03
17:04:50 <TrueBrain> on one hand could be how the Python decodes the strings .. on the other hand, could be luck ๐ I don't know enough about this stuff ๐
17:04:50 <frosch> i have some dutch trainsets, not sure which version
17:05:40 <petern> Weird that the French translation has a space before the :
17:06:02 <TrueBrain> the French are weird ๐
17:06:50 <glx[d]> space before and after stuff with 2 elements
17:07:11 <petern> > In French, exclamation points, question marks, colons, and semi-colons (all forms of "high" punctuation(opens in a new tab)) should always have a space preceding them.
17:07:38 <frosch> TrueBrain: sorry, you have to give me a grfid, i have no idea which of the 5 dutch trainsets you mean
17:07:41 <glx[d]> I use {NBSP} in ths case ๐
17:07:55 <glx[d]> else it can have weird effecrs
17:07:57 <TrueBrain> TrueBrain: you used to read up frosch .. getting lazy? ๐
17:08:42 <petern> Hmm, station classes on a dropdown is a bit awkward ๐ฆ
17:08:49 <TrueBrain> basically we wonder who introduced those EE 82 .. was that already from the source?
17:08:53 <TrueBrain> does NML? Does eints?
17:09:04 <glx[d]> in theory we also need to use ยซ and ยป
17:09:07 <petern> As it's two clicks to select instead of one. But it does take up less room.
17:10:05 <TrueBrain> I am kinda surprised it renders fine in-game honestly ๐
17:10:29 <glx[d]> that's why I'm starting the debugger
17:10:46 <TrueBrain> which one did you end up trying?
17:10:46 <glx[d]> to make sure it's not a false positive on 9A 03
17:11:26 <frosch> the newest one of them
17:11:55 <glx[d]> it's really using 9A 03
17:12:05 <TrueBrain> so it renders it properly purely by luck ๐
17:13:57 <TrueBrain> frosch: nothing weird in those source files at least ๐
17:14:14 <frosch> nml's grfstrings.py inserts push_word for alignment
17:14:46 <frosch> when translations reorder parameters, nml has to do some weird rotate-parameter struff
17:15:33 <TrueBrain> but why all those EE 82? ๐
17:16:05 <glx[d]> so it's not really using 9A 03 based on the strings
17:18:14 <TrueBrain> at least that is what is inserted here, so NML is to blame for it ๐
17:18:52 <glx[d]> grf limitations most likely, forcing nml to do nasty stuff
17:18:54 <TrueBrain> still no clue what those EE 82 are doing in front of all those entries ๐
17:19:21 <TrueBrain> well, once again, I am convinced that NewGRFs are pure evil and just exists to mess with us ๐
17:19:57 <TrueBrain> anyway, the detection script frosch wrote works as advertised ๐
17:20:33 <glx[d]> openttd just puts the index before/after the control code, as it should be in normal world
17:21:06 <glx[d]> but as newgrf is abusing registers as an array of variable size values
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17:25:09 <glx[d]> "BLACK": {"unicode": r"\UE098", "ascii": r"\98"}, <-- that's for 98
17:25:15 <frosch> TrueBrain: ee 82 is the unicode user range
17:25:32 <glx[d]> "PUSH_WORD": {"unicode": r"\UE09A\03", "ascii": r"\9A\03", "deprecated": True},
17:25:47 <frosch> U+E0xx is a user-defineable range in unicode, and that's where the string code live
17:26:17 <frosch> the push_word stuff is needed by nml to do things like "{1:NUM}{0:NUM}", i.e. reorder parameters
17:26:47 <frosch> newgrf have only one command for reordering parameters, and that is a rotation of 8 bytes (fixed value)
17:26:59 <glx[d]> yeah we need to upgrade the spec to be simpler for users
17:27:37 <glx[d]> and proper index marking in the strings
17:27:40 <frosch> that means (1) you cannot rotate more, so there is a limit on how far parameters can be moved, and (2) if you want to remove less, you have to PUSH_WORD junk on the stack, rotate, use want you want, and drop the junk again
17:29:17 <frosch> a SetDValue does not help here to remove the push_word. the push_word is used for reordering, so you need different NUM/FORCE/STRING codes, which accept offsets
17:29:53 <frosch> but at that point, you replace basically everything :p
17:30:15 <glx[d]> with SetDValue and proper index in the string you don't need to reorder ๐
17:30:34 <glx[d]> it's more like openttd does it
17:30:58 <frosch> yes, the index stuff ๐
17:32:03 <frosch> you could probably add a new string prefix (like the unicode prefix), and then just write the lang-file string with all the {} into the newgrf
17:32:13 <frosch> so the string is compiled inside ottd, like with gs
17:34:31 <glx[d]> authors would like that, more commands available for strings in openttd
17:36:37 <frosch> the "text stack" at register 100+x is mostly already a setdparam, if you declare all new string-codes to use 32bit
17:37:07 <frosch> but the excel people usually want more than 15 string parameters, and register 10F is already used for other struff
17:37:26 <glx[d]> might be simpler to add a \2 operator for that
17:37:41 <frosch> or use register 200+x ๐
17:37:57 <frosch> it's write-only in both cases
17:38:18 <frosch> and newgrf only can do 32bit, so no 64bit currencies and refitmasks
17:38:24 <petern> Does using tooltips to show details about the thing being hovered over break our "UI guidelines"?
17:39:16 <frosch> i used that in the depot window, to show loaded cargo and capacity
17:44:33 <andythenorth> what shall I set the search strings to for Horse vehicles?
17:44:41 <andythenorth> name handling is all via callback
17:44:49 <andythenorth> but I need to set the action 0 prop
17:45:00 <andythenorth> shall I use keywords for SEO optimisation ๐
17:45:14 <petern> Is it a bug that searching doesn't use the callback?
17:45:29 <andythenorth> possibly it should be a specific callback context?
17:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still contemplating the bus option... but i'll be dead...
18:40:47 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> say i spend the night in brussels at the cheapest place i can find... what to do the next day?
19:11:22 <jfs-> spend the entire day getting home via 6 different trains
19:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> probably more like 8 :)
19:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> or pay a fortune
19:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> if i'm willing to spend 100โฌ+ i can probably do it in 2
19:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ignoring some local bits at the beginning and end
19:15:45 <petern> Maybe it's not important information anyway.
19:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that look in smaller gui zoom?
19:46:10 <TallTyler> TrueBrain: I have nothing in mind. An early dinner sounds great to me. Iโm not officially planning dinner because I donโt know how to internationally (canโt exactly call a restaurant to make a reservation) and because I donโt want to be responsible for choosing a venue.
19:46:44 <TrueBrain> Well, I am sure we can manage ๐
19:48:32 <TrueBrain> Trying to figure out if and where I can charge my car there is an interesting problem ๐
19:48:52 <TrueBrain> We have much more infra for that over here ๐
19:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> would surprise me if they don't have that
19:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> different question... why does cities:skylines crash during startup? (probably a mod)
19:53:53 <petern> You probably don't have enough memory.
19:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that may also be true... but it used to work(-ish)
19:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and that would probably show during game load, not on launch
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20:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> recently i have a lot of totally weird errors where things don't work which worked before
20:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> like this one game in dosbox, where i can load savegames, but not start new games
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22:44:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
23:52:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
continue to next day โต