IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-17
âī go to previous day
00:17:07 <TallTyler> Also added variants and tunnel underlays ð
00:20:17 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd
00:22:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
00:22:23 <petern> Oops, VS Code has been eating any free CPU for the past... several hours.
00:23:08 <petern> It's a lot quieter now.
00:24:01 <petern> I should have just released the spacebar.
00:25:23 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
00:25:23 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra
00:45:15 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd
00:49:35 *** karl[m]1234 has joined #openttd
01:27:31 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
01:28:59 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd
01:29:10 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd
01:29:16 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd
01:30:03 *** aperezdc__ has joined #openttd
01:32:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:32:18 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
02:05:10 *** patrick[m] has joined #openttd
02:06:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:06:45 *** lezzbehonest[m] has joined #openttd
02:06:51 *** citronbleuv[m] has joined #openttd
02:23:19 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd
03:34:11 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
03:53:28 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:56:31 *** _aD has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
04:01:44 <Pruple> oh hey, I remember this from when I was doing pineapple landscape
04:02:32 <Pruple> the groundtile on a foundation isn't simply moved up like the building sprite is, it's attached to the foundation sprite in a really wonky way which, among other things, requires cropping off the leftmost couple of pixels of the foundation :/
04:04:23 <Pruple> or otherwise, possibly, nocropping and extending every single groundsprite two pixels to the left.
05:29:05 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
05:33:51 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd
05:34:45 *** Tirili has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
05:40:21 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
05:40:21 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra
07:17:01 <Pruple> they look to be the same (logical) length to me, you can see that the gap between them is less.
07:25:54 <pickpacket> Pruple: count the highlighted verticals. There's 10 of them on my carriage, as well as the sprite in the github repo. There's only 9 on the goods vans in the game
07:26:34 <Pruple> sure, it's a different sprite.
07:27:03 <Pruple> but the vehicle is the same logical length, there are bigger gaps between the vans that appear shorter
07:27:08 <pickpacket> but why? the sprite in the repo hasn't changed for more than a decade and I'm using the OpenGFX package
07:27:28 <pickpacket> It should be the same sprite, shouldn't it?
07:30:19 <Pruple> there's a temperate_railwagons_28px,png which I guess is the sprites used in the grf
07:36:47 <pickpacket> I'll try basing it off of that instead
07:37:33 <pickpacket> Do you know how I should calculate the offsets? Right now I'm just trying changing one pixel at a time here and there and it really doesn't work out well
07:42:57 <Pruple> if you're basing your sprite on the opengfx template, and you stick with the offsets in the ogfx code, it should all line up
08:02:19 <pickpacket> Pruple: I was thinking more if there's a general rule for sprite offset
08:02:47 <pickpacket> it's one of those things that always takes a lot of time
08:03:42 <Pruple> if you're using the same template each time it shouldn't do, you shouldn't have to change the offsets at all
08:03:58 <Pruple> also this is a subject I have opinions on which may not be useful to you at this time ð
08:09:11 <pickpacket> not just for this time :D Making new industries, vehicles, whatnot. Just in general, like if I make a sprite that's 20 pixels on the x axis and 20 on the y axis, what should the offset be?
08:10:02 <pickpacket> If I want to move the sprite to the left, is that a positive or negative x offset? If I want to move it up, is that a negative or positive y offset?
08:14:48 <Pruple> position it on a template, then you can use the same offsets every time, mostly.
08:14:48 <Pruple> there is a sprite aligner in-game for moving things around and seeing how far you need to adjust them, if you haven't found it yet. It's under the last button, the ? - you might have to have newgrf_developer_tools turned on
08:16:05 <Pruple> you can also press ctrl-b to turn the bounding boxes on, useful for lining sprites up against ð
08:17:00 <pickpacket> Oh! I've forgotten how to turn the developer tools on
08:17:20 <Pruple> "set newgrf_developer_tools 1" in the console
08:21:15 <pickpacket> turns out the sprite aligner is available without it :)
08:46:32 <pickpacket> I don't understand how to use it though...
08:48:18 <Pruple> you can pick a sprite, move it around until it lines up where you want it, then use the relative numbers to see how far you moved it.
08:49:11 <pickpacket> But it apparently ends up waaaaaaay down and to the right
08:49:17 <pickpacket> makes absolutely no sense
08:50:49 <andythenorth> nice to have you with us
08:57:16 <Pruple> it's how far you moved it, I think you have to divide it by 4 for 1x zoom. then you add that to the offset in your nml. easy, right? ð
09:04:24 <pickpacket> I have the maximum zoom... should I divide by 16 then? ðĪŠ
09:05:20 <Pruple> no, it's moving it in px at maximum zoom, so if your sprites are 1x you divide by 4 ð
09:05:49 <Pruple> my sprites are 2x so I only have to divide by 2 ð
09:06:36 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:19:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:26:46 <pickpacket> Sprites all lined up now!
09:34:45 <petern> Oops I forgot I was waiting on adding a screenshot.
09:44:11 <andythenorth> best PR in last 10 years
09:44:21 <andythenorth> since original grf dev tools were added
09:47:41 <petern> Oof, that's exactly how a tall building is constructed.
09:47:48 <petern> I've added a screenshot now andy
09:49:02 <petern> (My only concern is "Sprite Sprite" could be taken as a command)
09:50:31 <dP> yeah, construction stages are quite silly
09:50:48 <dP> especially annoying when I tried to make 3d model of that xD
09:51:44 <dP> also some buildings are weirdly aligned in opengfx
09:52:06 <dP> including clipping column of pixels on some
09:55:43 <petern> OpenGFX is... not great. Far better than zBase but still.
09:58:34 <andythenorth> petern: sentence case on 'Center Sprite' ð
09:59:16 <andythenorth> this is the #1 thing I get nitpicked for at work, so am happy to share the love ð
10:04:15 <petern> I changed english.txt. :sadface:
10:04:33 <petern> How do I build AL code from the command line?
10:12:15 <petern> Rivers don't really like mountainous terrain ðĶ
10:12:30 <andythenorth> Centre sprite ð
10:12:53 <andythenorth> no typography nitpick will be error free ð
10:13:06 <petern> I've made it toggle "Centre sprite" then "Centre offset"
10:13:10 <petern> However, I need to redo it.
10:13:15 <petern> Because the labels are the wrong way around lol
10:13:18 <andythenorth> Center vs centre, I blame css ð
10:14:02 <petern> Oh, didn't notice ð
10:14:26 <petern> Oh! I miss wrote what I've done ðĶ
10:14:37 <petern> I've changed it to "Offset centred" and "Sprite centred"
10:14:44 <petern> So that no longer looks like an action.
10:17:15 <petern> I should use a different colour.
10:17:24 <petern> All-grey is so Windows 95.
10:19:20 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
10:21:46 <petern> [build] LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib 'LIBCMT' conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library [I:\src\OpenTTD\build\openttd.vcxproj]
10:21:51 <petern> I should figure out how to fix that :p
10:22:14 <petern> Is the solution to install Debian instead?
10:22:55 <petern> I just saw a yellow window.
10:22:56 <andythenorth> if I point out the vertical alignment of the sprite numbers in the list, will you be able to unsee it?
10:24:01 <petern> andythenorth: the width also doesn't expand to allow 100,000+ sprites.
10:25:20 <petern> "What does the colour mean?"
10:25:29 <petern> Does not add anything useful without a convention.
10:27:26 <petern> -resize->height = FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL + WD_FRAMERECT_TOP + WD_FRAMERECT_BOTTOM;
10:27:26 <petern> +resize->height = FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL + padding.height;
10:27:54 <petern> It's a matrix, so the padding now is matrix not framerect.
10:33:00 <petern> That offset doesn't look quite right tho ð
10:38:46 <petern> There's a marker for that right?
10:54:08 <andythenorth> wonder what the longest USB-C power delivery cable I can buy is
10:54:23 <andythenorth> 4m would be better
10:55:11 <petern> I see 4.5M on the rainforest.
10:55:33 <petern> Oh, it's A to C, oops.
10:56:09 <petern> > uni USB C to USB C Cable 4.5M/15ft for Phone Laptop Switch (100W 20V/5A)
10:56:30 <andythenorth> or I could move the power brick to the socket next to me
11:00:02 <petern> I wonder if that is fixed in scaling.
11:03:13 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that would be too easy
11:03:31 <andythenorth> it doesn't involve shopping, shopping is fun
11:03:38 <andythenorth> owning stuff is less fun
11:03:46 <andythenorth> we should invent inverse shopping
11:04:44 <andythenorth> I've tried selling, it's fun for a bit
11:07:15 <andythenorth> eBay 2022: ÂĢ1,799.55
11:07:35 <andythenorth> a high % of that goes to charity
11:07:52 <andythenorth> but it's a lot of packing and boxes and stuff
11:17:35 <pickpacket> I'm going to playtest a bit, but I'll probably release new version of my NewGRF after Christmas. Should I replace the one I have on bananas or just upload the new version alongside the old?
11:23:38 <petern> Is the same NewGRF isn't it? So it should replace it.
11:24:06 <petern> The content system automatically keeps old versions around in case they're needed.
11:27:44 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
11:35:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
11:44:39 <petern> Timberwolf delved into Test Drive 3 and... now I want the open-source port...
11:54:15 * andythenorth found an Amiga games archive
11:57:29 <andythenorth> found Lotus Turbo Challenge...
11:57:48 <MnHebi> had the 3000T at one point just loaded chock full of games
11:57:53 <andythenorth> was so influential
11:58:40 <andythenorth> the music, the art style
11:58:50 <andythenorth> basically the Blue Monday of computer games
11:59:44 <MnHebi> I remember there was some switching yard game..
12:00:25 *** esselfe has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
12:17:29 <pickpacket> I tried spacing trams out evenly by fiddling with time tables, but it seemed utterly impossible. If I adjust the time table so that a vehicle should stay, I dunno, ten days at a station, does that mean it can stay for ten days at most before being late or that it stays ten days before moving on?
12:17:49 <andythenorth> JGRPP -> autoseparate ð
12:18:03 <pickpacket> is that in a NewGRF?
12:23:31 <andythenorth> pickpacket: no, it's in JGRPP patch pack ð
12:23:48 <andythenorth> I don't use it, except to see how it works
12:23:55 *** esselfe has joined #openttd
12:24:09 <andythenorth> but if you believe certain people, 'everybody has switched to JGRPP' ð
12:25:24 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Variants
12:33:15 <petern> Hmm, shame webfinger can't be used for authentication.
12:33:26 <reldred> Just a vocal minority andythenorth ð
12:39:42 <petern> Funny how fediverse uses ostatus, which references ostatus.org in the schema, but that domain is now something completely different.
12:41:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v orudge
12:59:51 <petern> Ooh, Debian 11.6 released.
13:00:15 <andythenorth> meh did a plague test
13:00:19 <andythenorth> still got plague
13:01:56 <petern> Maybe I should have tested. Oh well.
13:02:19 <petern> Maybe I should test before tonight.
13:02:39 <petern> Supposed to be having an xmas curry with the cycling crew.
13:03:20 <petern> Just been tired and a bit bunged up for the past week tho
13:05:24 <petern> (Late nights not helping the tired :))
13:11:54 <petern> I guess I should wait the required time heh
13:15:26 <pickpacket> petern: which part of the fediverse uses Ostatus? I thought that was completely abandoned in favour of AP
13:49:13 <andythenorth> feels like lunch
14:04:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:05:30 <FLHerne> pickpacket: for vehicles, offset is where to place the top-left corner of the sprite relative to the one corner of the bounding box that you can't see
14:05:52 <FLHerne> (there's a setting to show bounding boxes)
14:06:42 <FLHerne> so it's usually negative, and a bit less than half the sprite size
14:11:27 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
14:14:49 <petern> If you use PR #10249 it's a lot easier to see the position ð
14:15:40 <petern> Vehicles are a bit wonky as the bounding boxes themselves aren't 100% right in terms of where the sprite should be (sprite sorting is an awkward beast)
14:23:19 <petern> Nothing actually USES WWT_TEXTBTN_2 except the code I just wrote...
14:24:24 <petern> The landscape generator buttons use WWT_TEXTBTN with STR_JUST_STRING and a SetDParam()
14:27:36 <petern> Autoreplace wagon removal is a toggle that doesn't stay down, but has On/Off text instead.
14:29:15 <petern> Face window has multi-choice toggles instead. Hmm.
14:29:29 <petern> Apart from Simple / Advanced which doesn't stay down.
14:29:35 <petern> Who needs consistency?
14:48:33 <andythenorth> it is over-rated in UIs
14:48:40 <andythenorth> it's not a bad aim though ð
14:50:10 <petern> I'm wondering if I should change it here now.
14:50:29 <petern> The wagon removal one is... odd.
14:50:50 <andythenorth> FWIW, I often miss the state
14:50:58 <andythenorth> leading to disappointment ð
14:51:13 <andythenorth> my proposal to fix that button would be....throw it all out and do templates ð
14:51:20 <petern> In this case it's arguable which mode should be lowered and not lowered ð
14:51:35 <petern> on/off is obvious enough
14:52:37 <andythenorth> petern: look at 'Show hidden' in autoreplace though
14:53:11 <andythenorth> what does wagon removal do?
14:53:52 <petern> That's what a I meant. Show hidden is an on/off toggle, i.e. it's obvious
14:54:51 <petern> This is lowered to show the state but lowered doesn't mean much.
14:55:50 <petern> Same on the landscape generator window tbh.
14:57:51 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
15:18:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
15:25:10 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
15:29:39 <petern> Do we have any windows with buttons-as-tabs?
15:30:02 <petern> (Other than train details window)
15:32:11 <petern> Detailed performance rating
15:32:16 <andythenorth> some of the charts
15:32:26 <petern> Those are filter buttons rather than tabs.
15:33:14 <petern> Hmm, not really. Kinda but not quite/.
15:34:42 <andythenorth> wonder where my kindle went ð
15:35:31 <petern> Can you play OpenTTD on it?
15:36:41 <petern> I suppose not if you can't find it.
15:43:58 <petern> 13 gets all the features
15:45:25 <andythenorth> 13: the cursed number
15:45:30 * andythenorth was born on a 13
15:45:36 <petern> Makes it easier to see the bad offset of all the default grounds sprites, eh?
15:45:55 <andythenorth> variants was merged yet? ð
16:00:18 <petern> How is it 4pm already?
16:04:00 <andythenorth> I didn't do variants yet
16:24:10 <andythenorth> FML covid coding is harder than usual
16:32:32 <petern> ^ This one is actually TTD behaviour, maybe I was too hasty ð
16:34:28 <kamnet> andythenorth: TBH this is one of the main reasons I play almost exclusively with JGR
16:57:58 <newbthenewbd> if it gets shot down again, at least I found a quick workaround that lets me play lol; turns out that in this case it's only the separately set deployment targets that stain the binary itself for the .app
16:59:04 <newbthenewbd> how did the 10.12.6 folks from the crashes run it
16:59:21 <newbthenewbd> if that deployment target was supposedly already set :p
17:07:24 <glx[d]> of course cached vcpkg packages are for 10.14
17:08:03 <newbthenewbd> it probably works anyways lol
17:08:08 <newbthenewbd> like the 12.2 does
17:10:05 <newbthenewbd> ya been closely patrolling that myself :)
17:13:32 <glx[d]> but it seems to build and run fine on the CI
17:14:37 <newbthenewbd> the problem mentioned in limitations would be more likely to pop up on Friday afternoon on some angry dev's computer :)(
17:15:35 <newbthenewbd> unless even Apple decided that it's artificial by now
17:17:07 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:21:07 <Timberwolf> petern: There's so much you could do with that game if you had a workable codebase. It's got potential.
17:21:46 <petern> I loved it when I was little.
17:23:13 <petern> System Shock is harsh. You die, you die.
17:23:28 <petern> Load from last save is order of the day. At least there are saves.
17:25:42 <petern> (That already has a modern refresh though :))
17:26:14 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Quit: A toaster's basically a soldering iron designed to toast bread)
17:28:10 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd
17:29:18 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC ()
17:39:56 <petern> I thought we didn't enable HW accel on macOS?
17:41:54 <andythenorth> we debated it a lot
17:42:24 <andythenorth> there's a ticket
17:42:32 <glx[d]> I think it's off now, but it might have been on at some point
17:43:25 <glx[d]> and it's an intel integrated
17:44:06 <glx[d]> most opengl issues we had are intel related
17:58:51 <glx[d]> newbthenewbd: you should be able to try the next nightly build
18:00:18 <glx[d]> it's not the exact same workflow (nighlies also build for arm64)
18:01:06 <glx[d]> while CI only tests x86_64
18:12:01 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:19:02 <petern> Hmm, maybe it was just the default setting.
18:19:32 <petern> vsync is hidden for macOS but hw_accel is not. I'm sure I remember a big discussion about it not being allowed...
18:21:02 <petern> Hmm, I wish I had some alcoholic beverage. Maybe I should break in to the box I got to give to my dad...
18:30:07 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
18:30:11 <newbthenewbd> now for something funnily different, went reading the openttd news archive and noticed
18:31:10 <petern> Might have been when that was first put up
18:31:26 <newbthenewbd> should've tried that version before bugging y'all they added the stub themselves for sure
18:40:33 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
20:36:28 *** TROILUS5 has joined #openttd
20:41:03 <glx[d]> newbthenewbd: you can now try nightly build
20:42:13 *** TROILUS has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
20:42:13 *** TROILUS5 is now known as TROILUS
21:08:07 <petern> Jesus Discord, stop highlighting the stupid Gift Nitro button every time I look a way for a second.
21:08:52 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
21:13:29 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
21:27:41 <petern> ffs, my dogs decided to have fight over food and sliced my finger as I split them up. Dogs ðĶ
21:57:34 <newbthenewbd> glx[d]: ain't no arm64, but works as intended here ð
22:05:35 <petern> Fixing a bug that manifests with OpenGFX, and got carried away...
22:06:38 <petern> Also these 'tabs' are definitely illegal
22:19:36 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:23:01 <andythenorth> we have tabs in company colour UI ð
22:24:50 <andythenorth> ones I drew years ago
22:25:17 <andythenorth> if they're pane-switching tabs, they should connect into a single block, ideally ð
22:25:32 <andythenorth> oh Rage Against the Machine on random play
22:28:26 <petern> I split them deliberately, lol
22:29:14 <petern> (To see what it's like)
22:33:20 <andythenorth> oh the edge is weird on company colour UI ð
22:33:24 <andythenorth> never noticed before
22:33:38 <andythenorth> I guess it's just this
22:34:25 <andythenorth> it's as though the window is unframed
22:34:46 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:34:59 <petern> Not sure what you mean
22:35:38 <andythenorth> it's not very big deal, but when the first button is in the down state
22:35:47 <andythenorth> the window loses the left edge highlight
22:35:54 <andythenorth> so it looks weird
22:36:14 <petern> Windows don't have left edge highlight.,
22:36:16 <andythenorth> there's no correct answer, moving the button in would create a double highlight in other cases
22:37:20 <petern> What we have now is the correct answer.
22:38:33 <andythenorth> well this is the first time it looked weird to me since 2008
22:38:49 <andythenorth> so I'll just unsee that
22:39:51 <andythenorth> refactoring Horse variants is going well...
22:46:00 <petern> One UI issue we have is a mix of buttons right up to the end, buttons with spacing at the edge but stuck together, and buttons with spacing at the edge and between each other.
22:46:28 <petern> Like on the intro menu. Buttons joined horizontally but not vertically.
22:46:43 <petern> We're used to it, but it doesn't make sense.
22:47:39 <andythenorth> weird, but used to it ð
22:47:55 <glx[d]> there's now a line with 3 buttons
22:48:02 <andythenorth> I picked a random openttd locally ð
22:48:17 <andythenorth> got a grf test open in the latest beta ð
22:48:31 <petern> Don't look at the NewGRF window.
22:50:34 <petern> At least the joined buttons are mostly related in the original, except Tutorial / Quit.
22:50:51 <glx[d]> 2 Players over null modem ?
22:52:15 <andythenorth> do we think that will work? Amiga emulator running on macOS ð
22:52:33 <andythenorth> not even sure how Amigas connected ð
22:52:50 <glx[d]> manual/auto gears ð
22:53:04 <petern> I did have that patch to manually control trains...
22:53:48 <andythenorth> wonder if null-modem can be emulated over wi-fi ð
22:54:13 <glx[d]> just need a virtual driver
22:54:29 <petern> I played a game of something serial over the network a while ago.
22:54:34 <petern> I think it was Indycar Racing.
22:54:53 <petern> Not network, internet.
22:55:24 <andythenorth> remember when computers were the future?
22:55:29 <petern> We should embed a browser and use it to render UIs.
22:55:52 <petern> Fill it with bootstrap classes lolz
22:56:02 <glx[d]> TB has a CSS UI renderer
22:56:17 <andythenorth> hey look the Amiga DOS font clips the window bar top
22:56:53 <andythenorth> the word gets abused for 'no padding'
22:58:09 <andythenorth> hmm .... stay up too late refactoring Horse variants?
22:58:09 <andythenorth> or sleep off some more covid
22:58:36 <petern> I hope my group had a good curry.
22:58:53 <andythenorth> that would fix matters
22:59:13 <andythenorth> was going to have curry yesterday, but it was a child's birthday so they chose burgers
23:35:21 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
23:44:36 *** bryjen has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
23:47:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
continue to next day âĩ
