IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-06-05
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00:06:51 <supermop_home> now I need to figure out how to stack sprites in different orders depending on rotation
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04:01:09 <Vadtec> its not possible to replace say monorail trains with maglev trains via the replace vehicles interface?
04:10:46 <debdog> you'll need some sort of unversal rail thingy for that
04:11:49 <debdog> like newgrf UniversalRail Type 2.0.1
04:12:05 <Vadtec> it would be nice if you could upgrade across rail types, then just have to convert your rails over
04:13:14 <debdog> yes, hence the said newgrf
04:14:16 <Vadtec> cept im in a long running game right now...
04:16:25 <debdog> hehe, hope you don't have too many trains running
04:18:58 <Vadtec> i just dont have any way to build a maglev network alongside my other rails
04:19:09 <Vadtec> some of these stations are hard core land locked
04:20:10 <debdog> hmm, there is a way to convert.
04:20:23 <Vadtec> yeah, i can covert the rails no problem
04:20:30 <Vadtec> its the trains thats the issue
04:20:46 <debdog> but each train separately and preferably one train per depot
04:21:03 <debdog> it's somewhere in the wiki, let me check....
04:24:01 <Vadtec> if i didnt have 6-8 trains per grouping that might work
04:25:23 <Vadtec> im thinking ill clone each train in the new depot, then convert the track and hook the depot up to the new track
04:32:58 <Vadtec> well thats going to be tedious....
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04:45:40 <Vadtec> does anyone have a set of instructions on how to build the dual-tetrathorp? im building it, but i keep coming up with mismatches and its pissin me off
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10:46:40 <nekomaster1> today would be a great day to finish up my narrow gauge stuff :P
10:47:21 <nekomaster1> ONly thing I hate is that I have this feelling I have something important to do but I know I have nothing to do today (other then maybe dishes and have a shower)
10:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> we call this "holiday"
10:58:30 <nekomaster1> Mondays are not holidays :P
10:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but this monday is.
10:59:03 <nekomaster1> And part of this feeling I have makes me anxious because I know if I dont get shit done then someone is going to get pissed off
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14:47:56 <__ln__> was Volkswagen the only Volks* in the west?
14:48:16 <nekomaster1> As far as I know, Theres only one Volkswagen in North America
14:49:05 <__ln__> haha, only an american could respond like that to my question
14:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: no, there's also "Volksbank"
14:49:56 <__ln__> ah, yes, i've certainly seen their name and logo
14:50:11 <nekomaster1> ALso I'm not american
14:50:35 <__ln__> i didn't say you're unitedstatesian
14:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the fun thing about "amercia does (not) equal the united states" argument is that you can arbitrarily go back and forth on it to support whatever you tried to say
14:52:35 <nekomaster1> HOnestly, My arguement is that if we're going to get technical, then how about we start calling every country byt its full and sometimes complicated or long name
14:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like, countries who call themselves different to how everyone else calls them, yet have no idea where that name even comes from?
14:53:33 <nekomaster1> Or how some countries have the common name and an official name
14:53:49 <nekomaster1> like Russia, and then theres the Russian Federation
14:54:13 <Wolf01> Like Italy and Bananas' Republic
14:54:35 <nekomaster1> Or Spain, aka The Kingdom of Spain
14:55:21 <nekomaster1> Honestly I think its silly to argue over trivilities like people calling USA "America" or just calling people from USA "American", because last I checked nobody really cares
14:55:39 <nekomaster1> except for the few canadians that dont like being mistaken for an American :P
14:56:10 <__ln__> anyway, the "west" i was referring to in my question obviously wasn't a reference to the wild west.
14:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i can't think of another obvious example. maybe try asking actual westerners :p
14:57:44 <nekomaster1> No, when I here West, I think of the Western Hemi-sphere
14:57:54 <nekomaster1> Or Western Society
14:58:18 <frosch123> Wolf01: he, germany is the banana republic
14:58:48 <frosch123> __ln__: there are also some insurances called volks*
14:59:04 <Wolf01> I'm starting to think it's spreading to the entire EU
14:59:05 <nekomaster1> Isn't volks something along hte line of "people"
14:59:18 <nekomaster1> So like, The Peoples Bank, or the Peoples Insurance
14:59:24 <__ln__> "of the people", "people's"
14:59:26 <frosch123> __ln__: volkswohlbund
14:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: yes, and it was a popular prefix in eastern block countries
14:59:31 <nekomaster1> Of the people, we the people
14:59:39 <nekomaster1> i dunno what I just said
14:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> where socialism was everything about benefiting "the people"
14:59:50 <nekomaster1> I should just go back to finnsihing up my narrow gauge stuff
15:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: as in "people's republic of <wherever>"
15:00:33 <frosch123> __ln__: some people also like to collect old volksempfänger
15:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that kinda predates the east/west divide :p
15:01:21 <frosch123> or do you mean that they still need to exist today?
15:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but they were still "actively" in use later
15:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: anyway, the question context was, since "people's <whatever>" was kinda in inflationary use in the east, did western countries stay away from it, or were there also examples of use
15:03:52 <nekomaster1> I dunno about north america, becuase stuff seen as "for the people" tended to seem socialist, and people know how USA was about anything that seemed socialist
15:04:00 <frosch123> __ln__: volkshochschule is still a thing
15:04:07 <nekomaster1> even some Americans think Canada is Socialist
15:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: isn't the canadian head of government from the socialist party?
15:05:28 <frosch123> not sure when volksschule was replaced by hauptschule
15:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: is that not the same thing? americans call "liberal" what europeans call "socialist"
15:06:48 <nekomaster1> Liberals seems to be the party that wants to get shit done in Canada
15:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and european "liberal" is something very different
15:07:09 <nekomaster1> Arm the military, push for new things, even if it sometimes comes with some negatives
15:07:48 <nekomaster1> The Concervatives of Canada where too convervative under Stephen Harper
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16:48:25 <Alberth> meh, no truck grf loaded
16:49:39 <Alberth> hmm, maybe build a canal instead?
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17:30:34 <Alberth> andy, green is a bad industry colour :)
17:32:01 <frosch123> andy plays on purple map
17:33:33 <Alberth> tried that too for a while, but it's too ugly
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17:49:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: $someone could write a colour checker in the FIRS compiler
17:49:56 <andythenorth> a guard against bad industry colours, based on contrast with the map colours
17:55:03 <Alberth> sounds more like a linter, although integration into nml is more likely for keeping maintained
17:56:43 <andythenorth> could be done at the nml level
17:58:27 <Alberth> hmm, map colours are quite hard-coded of course, wouldn't be terribly difficult to do
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20:07:40 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: thanks, that looks useful
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20:19:48 <Alberth> I probably know most of it :p
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20:20:54 <Aderonis> Hello, i have a question, can you delete or hide basic TTD vehicles so i can play with only Newgrf vehicles?
20:21:27 <frosch123> that's the default behaviour
20:21:27 <Alberth> many newgrfs hide default vehicles (but not all)
20:21:47 <Alberth> alternatively, you can hide them manually with the "hide" button in the buy menu
20:21:50 <frosch123> you probably added a newgrf like "old vehicles, new cargos", which explicitly adds the original ones
20:22:21 <Aderonis> but i must hide all of them manulay, no option to hide all
20:33:10 <V453000> andythenorth: I am generating code with python XD
20:33:25 <Wolf01> Mmmh, cousin asked for a webservice to browse the parameters of various Siemens S7 PLC scattered around the region...
20:34:04 <V453000> I could have had it finished by now twice XD
20:34:16 <V453000> hopefully done with the generator tomorrow
20:34:22 <Wolf01> My answer was "yes, 6 months and 7000€"
20:34:30 <V453000> but think of the possibilities!
20:34:45 <V453000> all that code generated in under 1s, you would have been writing it for a day or two
20:34:56 <V453000> writing generator for a week...
20:35:25 <V453000> but it's good, learning things
20:38:01 <frosch123> i like the dark grey cells
20:42:23 <V453000> missed opportunity to write something interesting there
20:47:30 <frosch123> i was in a meeting once, where someone talked about a maintenance task that would take 5 days to complete, and then he suggested to run it weekly
21:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so you start the task on monday, are finished on friday, the machine is unused on weekends, and then you start the job on monday?
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21:30:15 <supermop> frosch123: you should just add that xkcd to the topic of this channel
21:30:47 <frosch123> sadly there is a limit to the length of the topic
21:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> just put every xkcd in the topic, they're all relevant
21:37:37 <supermop> will probably be pertinent to any discussion
21:47:08 <Deactivated> Guys what's the limit for that sprite_cache_size_px thing?
22:37:02 <Wolf01> "and is more powerful than your PC"
22:39:03 <Alkel_U3> Powelful, huh. So, will it melt through the floor or are you required to dip it in liquid nitrogen frequently?
22:40:08 <Wolf01> Apple (and apple fans too) has a strange vision of "powerful"
22:44:13 <andythenorth> is powerful claims
22:45:11 <andythenorth> we have an ipad pro it’s surprisingly powerful
22:45:19 <andythenorth> but it is still a tablet
22:45:40 <frosch123> you you use it to serve dishes?
22:46:02 <andythenorth> you can use it as a table mat
22:46:08 <andythenorth> not for hot drinks though
22:46:54 <frosch123> sounds like you talk from experience
22:48:33 <andythenorth> you can also walk on them
22:48:37 <andythenorth> but you shouldn’t, really
22:49:07 <andythenorth> and you can drop them down the stairs, at least 100% of the times I’ve seen it done
22:49:16 <frosch123> if you have one, you can fight over it. if you have two you can fight with them?
22:49:18 <andythenorth> although I heard it’s not a guaranteed feature
22:49:39 <andythenorth> both those features are supported
22:54:54 <andythenorth> my kids physically can’t eat unless the ipad is present
22:55:00 <andythenorth> it’s a pavlovian reflex of some kind
22:55:17 <andythenorth> OMG my laptop is outdated :o
22:55:27 <andythenorth> I feel dismayed :P
22:55:40 <andythenorth> I am now .2Ghz behind the bleeding edge
22:56:44 <frosch123> my current computer i am using for the longest time i have ever used a computer
22:56:59 <frosch123> it's 7 years old, never had one in use longer
22:57:56 <andythenorth> my wife’s is about the same
22:58:09 <andythenorth> I added an SSD, it’s really hard to complain about it
22:59:01 <andythenorth> unless you want USB 3, Hi-DPI display, 802.11n etc
22:59:12 <andythenorth> basically it plays netflix and makes word docs
22:59:57 <frosch123> but i do not have a usb3 device
23:00:13 <andythenorth> get a USB 3 mouse
23:00:16 <andythenorth> for faster pointing
23:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> mine has usb3, but only on the back, it's annoying to attach a drive to it
23:00:34 <frosch123> i considered getting a new mouse
23:00:46 <frosch123> it's about 17 years old, and starts looking greasy
23:01:00 <frosch123> it's first generation optical
23:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i've warranty-replaced my mouse like every 2 years for the past 10 years
23:02:28 <frosch123> it once had this silicone stuff in the places where you touch it
23:02:40 <frosch123> now there are finger shaped holes in it
23:03:44 <frosch123> the trick to long living mice was, no wireless, and a usb cable extension
23:03:53 <frosch123> and optical i guess
23:04:37 <frosch123> previously either the cable broke, or the ball sensors could no longer be cleaned, or the auto-power off failed and the batteries were empty every two days
23:04:38 <Wolf01> My trick was to feed it the right amount of stuff XD
23:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no problem with the wirelessness of the mouse
23:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but the parts where i touch it degrade really quickly
23:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently it's too dusty for the optical sensor
23:10:39 <andythenorth> wtf is simyoulater talking about :)
23:10:48 <andythenorth> have I missed a memo?
23:10:51 <Alkel_U3> I liked microsoft wheeled optical mouse the most. I wore the wheel down so much it became unusable but not before 8-10 years of abuse
23:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a microsoft mouse which had something wrapped around the wheel, but that wore off after like a year
23:12:45 <andythenorth> it’s ok, it’s just noise :)
23:12:55 <Wolf01> Redundant informations
23:13:00 <andythenorth> tl;dr: can we have a new map array?
23:13:13 <andythenorth> containing enough bits that we have all the ponies
23:13:20 <andythenorth> but implement them all as hacks on roads
23:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have like 3 of those already?
23:13:34 <andythenorth> I shall not reply
23:14:22 <Wolf01> Tl;dr: why we didn't change the catenary to be an addon instead of a specific road/track type? The road/track type should only provide the graphics
23:14:36 <andythenorth> that’s where it all started :P
23:14:43 <andythenorth> with my catenary patch :P
23:14:51 <frosch123> i considered splitting of the road decorations as separate
23:14:52 * andythenorth was right all along!!
23:15:01 <frosch123> and ignore the compatibility
23:15:29 <Wolf01> Because the MAIN problem now is that you can't convert a city ROAD to ELRD
23:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> decoration as in pavement/trees/lamps?
23:15:33 <andythenorth> ‘is trolleybus’ or whatever is pink
23:15:40 <frosch123> currently we have n undergrounds, 1 roadtype, 1 tram type
23:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> clearly the lines on the road should be an overlay over the tram type :p
23:17:12 <frosch123> tram types seem to be as pointless as railtypes
23:17:22 <frosch123> and roadtypes are abused as newobjects
23:17:58 <frosch123> the latter may not be a bad thing
23:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> instead newobjects should be abused as roadtypes (by giving them statemachines)
23:18:31 <Wolf01> Rails already had the same problem with newstations
23:19:03 <frosch123> statemachines are a meta game
23:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrfs are a meta game...
23:19:22 <Wolf01> We need better road control, rails are already at good point as you can control many things, but roads only have oneway
23:19:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only the realism bullshit ones
23:20:09 <andythenorth> mine are a meta-game :)
23:20:23 <andythenorth> I play to beat my own bad ideas
23:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> => your grfs are realims bullshit :p
23:20:50 <Wolf01> You should really start to learn coding, and make NotWater
23:21:04 <andythenorth> but first I have to finish FIRS
23:21:10 <frosch123> Wolf01: i thought juanjo already did it?
23:21:17 <andythenorth> also Iron Horse, Road Hog, CHIPS and Unsinkable Sam
23:21:21 <andythenorth> also a gamescript
23:21:28 <frosch123> sometimes i swap people
23:21:31 <Wolf01> frosch123, somewhat yes, but there is more
23:22:14 <Wolf01> Andy is really prolific with strange ideas, and the bad part is that I really like them XD
23:27:56 <andythenorth> main idea now: bed
23:28:09 <andythenorth> unless we’re solving ROAD -> ELRD? o_O
23:28:24 <frosch123> we already did, didn't we?
23:28:32 <frosch123> noone implemented it though
23:28:36 <Wolf01> Yes, we did, remove and rebuild
23:29:26 <Wolf01> The same problem exists with oneway (where you can make oneway only your own road)
23:29:54 <frosch123> that's not the same
23:30:01 <frosch123> you can upgrade town bridges for example
23:30:02 <Wolf01> But that is a real influence on vehicle movement
23:33:01 <Wolf01> I would like to finish the patch to check for compatibility, maybe it could also help on these things
23:33:16 <Wolf01> At the current state it fixes the problems in SE
23:33:51 <Wolf01> But it lacks some cases as you stated before
23:34:12 <andythenorth> what was the fix? Always allow overbuilding town roads? o_O
23:34:51 <Wolf01> But what "upgrade" means?
23:35:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: allow converting town road to anything that is compatible to ROAD
23:35:50 <frosch123> no other before/afterc compatibility considered
23:36:01 <frosch123> it's best in singleplayer
23:36:20 <frosch123> and there is no proper solution for hostile multiplayer anyway
23:36:49 <Wolf01> Bridges and/or tunnels
23:37:22 <Wolf01> Too bad we can't have an owner for every roadbit
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