IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-04-22
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08:25:20 <Alberth> auzind is the new extreme ?
08:34:56 <andythenorth> I didn’t try it yet
08:35:02 <andythenorth> curious how the mini-map holds up
08:35:19 <andythenorth> I think map-gen will fail at < 512x512
08:39:04 <Alberth> it doesn't seem to have much planming :)
08:47:10 <andythenorth> lot of parameters eh :)
08:48:05 <andythenorth> I guess Garry isn’t using double-size UI on a 13” laptop
08:48:23 <andythenorth> the minimap industry list fills nearly half my screen :)
08:54:23 <andythenorth> eh Garry has drawn vineyard vines
08:59:57 * andythenorth needed some vines
09:03:44 <andythenorth> lots of ideas there
09:10:55 <Alberth> garry is quite creative :)
09:12:30 <andythenorth> shame he doesn’t have the version with graphviz docs
09:12:38 <andythenorth> industry chain view would be fun to see
09:16:25 <Alberth> don't think graphviz could draw it :p
09:16:58 <Alberth> hmm, hack nml compiler? :p
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09:24:49 <andythenorth> be nice if nml had the option eh?
09:25:01 <andythenorth> it’s built the tree
09:25:12 <andythenorth> it’s just another output format at that point
09:25:24 <andythenorth> actually, more flexible would be having nml dump json
09:25:31 <andythenorth> that’s a missing feature :D
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09:34:09 <Alberth> you can make these things quite generic, basically dump content of a grf in a human-readable way
09:34:25 <Alberth> overview of engines + graphics + stats
09:34:40 <Alberth> list of houses + size + years
09:46:24 <andythenorth> json -> html etc
09:46:32 * andythenorth doesn’t need it, but eh, might be useful
09:49:09 <andythenorth> eh will I stump up and draw a limestone quarry?
09:52:02 <Alberth> I think you have to eventually, nobody else will put the pixels in the right order
09:53:14 <Alberth> it might be easier to parse the grf
09:55:20 <andythenorth> I solved it by parsing the configuration, and cutting out intermediate formats :P
09:55:34 <andythenorth> but my approach seems to be…unusual
09:56:32 <Alberth> it needs programming skill, which most pixel artists lack
09:57:37 <Alberth> people tend to be either programmer or graphics artist, the combination is quite rare
09:59:47 <andythenorth> sometimes I think of trying to make my stuff more generic
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10:00:22 <andythenorth> at this point, configuring vehicles is just stupid declarative python
10:00:31 <andythenorth> it has less to go wrong than nml, as long as you mind the syntax
10:00:45 <andythenorth> but eh, more interesting things to do :)
10:03:50 <Alberth> over-generalizing means sacrificing flexibility, which comes back to bite somewhen in the future :)
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12:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> learning foreign languages is a useful skill
12:47:09 <Wolf01> Mmmh, need a new printer driver
12:48:05 <Wolf01> Also I need to connect the printer again with usb
12:48:15 <Wolf01> The printer is 2 stories below
12:57:41 <Wolf01> I need a 40m usb cable
12:57:54 <andythenorth> I have a 3.3m one
13:00:38 <Wolf01> I need to realign the printing heads too
13:01:28 <Wolf01> Maybe not... the alignment page is perfect, but when I print text I get a shadow on the text
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13:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have a 10m-ish usb cable
13:24:43 <andythenorth> “UserWarning: The installed version of lxml is too old to be used with openpyxl”
13:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, cable is probably more like 5m
13:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it was longer in my memory
13:30:48 <Alberth> the joys of open source, only support the latest :)
13:30:59 <Alberth> cable might have shrunk
13:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yesterday there was an article about how many programs embed open source tools in very old (and vulnerable) versions
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13:57:05 <Alberth> Eddi: yep, and that's only the tip, think of all embedded devices, and we'll get even more, with Internet of Things, just crackers heaven
13:57:50 <Alberth> and we give ample possibilties, by connecting everything to each other
14:20:15 <andythenorth> Industry Station Names: Literal | Esoteric | OpenTTD Default
14:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't you ask that already?
14:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or is the question which thesaurus entries you put into a randomized order?
14:36:23 <andythenorth> if I ask enough, an answer will happen
14:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so what's the difference between "literal" and "openttd default"?
14:40:04 <andythenorth> literal = industry name
14:40:26 <andythenorth> OpenTTD default = dunno, haven’t tested, I’ve been using FIRS for years with industry names :P
14:40:40 <andythenorth> one might accuse andythenorth of not really caring about station names
14:40:46 <andythenorth> but other people do, so eh
14:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so drop "default"
14:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make "literal" the default, and find a better name for "esoteric"
14:58:49 <andythenorth> ‘random’ would be best :)
14:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no "random"
14:59:30 <andythenorth> that depends on how you view time
14:59:40 <andythenorth> looking back from the future, there might be
15:04:53 <andythenorth> all it needs is Wolf01 to add the callback
15:07:12 <Wolf01> I'm adding callbacks to delete single cached items on my app right now
15:08:11 <Wolf01> And I found I'm totally stupid as I cached just the hash and a boolean, so I can't know what they are if the item with the actual details is no more on the list
15:09:05 <Wolf01> If this happen it might be a good thing to delete the relative cache anyway
15:09:12 <Wolf01> Maybe automagically too
15:14:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: Explicit | Metaphorical | OpenTTD default
15:14:25 <frosch123> it's 3 options, i think eddi doesn't know what "explicit" is
15:15:03 <andythenorth> explicit = town name + industry type name
15:15:38 <andythenorth> I thought of trolling to extend it, but that’s not fair
15:16:16 <Wolf01> Maybe I could do it :>
15:21:08 <frosch123> hmm, it's not tuesday
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15:25:08 <andythenorth> that’s only a matter of time
15:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what are you talking about? i thought people taking april fools for bare truth is the best part of april fool?
15:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you could, however amend the original announcement a little to clear things up
15:37:23 <Wolf01> Only time will know ^_^
15:38:41 <Wolf01> 1.8 might be the "road warrior" one, and 1.9 the "waterworld" one
15:39:06 <Wolf01> Speaking about waterworld, I have a weird scenario in mind
15:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of waterworld, ic111 asked about inclusion of his river generation patch, and possibly his timetable patch
15:47:31 <Wolf01> ic111 river patch is the one for realistic rivers?
15:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "rainfall river generation"
15:49:16 <Wolf01> But my vote doesn't count :P
15:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i've kinda lost track over whose votes count :p
15:50:42 <Wolf01> I think we should ask V
15:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't see anything good coming out of that approach :p
15:51:45 <Wolf01> He might just answer "ass"
15:52:16 <frosch123> was there any progress with the river generation?
15:52:28 <frosch123> last thing i remember was that it made landscapes even worse
15:53:04 <Wolf01> Like now they aren't bad enough?
15:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't know, but that sounds like the kind of issue that could be worked out by actually talking to each other
15:53:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: sorry, i gave up on that after mhl
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16:24:14 <Wolf01> ...deploying new app version on the phone...
16:36:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: no random station names then? o_O
16:37:10 * andythenorth might try to patch them as a parameter now
16:37:42 <frosch123> random station names would not be industry related
16:37:59 <frosch123> also they would not be random
16:38:10 <frosch123> compile-time randomness possibly
16:38:50 <andythenorth> FIRS v3: the many parameters edition
16:39:34 <andythenorth> station name parameter
16:39:49 <andythenorth> enable / disable industry founding date restrictions parameter
16:40:14 <andythenorth> max distance to a supplier / consumer of industry cargos parameter
16:40:55 <andythenorth> ^ last one might be dodgy, could cause _all_ industries to cluster into one quadrant of map
16:41:22 <Wolf01> I would prefer min distance
16:41:52 <Wolf01> So you won't get a forest near to a lumber mill, like 10 squares
16:42:07 <FLHerne> Can we have a primary:secondary ratio parameter? :P
16:42:19 <andythenorth> it’s default 16 in recent versions Wolf01
16:42:22 <andythenorth> fixed in last few weeks
16:43:49 <andythenorth> FLHerne: in principle yes, in practice, I’m not coding that
16:43:56 <andythenorth> that is a lot of conditionals :P
16:44:05 <andythenorth> although it would probably just be a tree eh
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17:28:13 <Wolf01> I was thinking to become a professional contributor, but actually I don't know enough, also I'm really slow if I'm not in the mood
17:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wouldn't it just be a simple multiplication of the construction probability property?
17:39:27 <andythenorth> it would have to count the industries on the map
17:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why would it need to be that exact?
17:43:31 <andythenorth> that’s what he asked for o_O
17:43:43 <andythenorth> oh no, maybe not
17:43:56 <andythenorth> ok I defer to you on this one
17:44:05 <andythenorth> gah thank fuck, my test passes
17:44:15 * andythenorth has been fixing same test for 30 mins
17:44:48 <andythenorth> it was a legit failure, took ages to se
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18:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you have a reasonable expectation of prices for H0 models :p
18:47:17 <andythenorth> it mostly loses value when imported to UK
18:48:24 <Alberth> ha, transporting vehicles with hovercraft :p
19:06:44 <Wolf01> Wtf is starcraft brood war downloading, the whole internet? Full bandwitdh for 20 minutes so far
19:07:19 <Alberth> the starcraft operating system?
19:07:49 <Wolf01> Worse than the microsoft store, I can't even open a webpage
19:10:07 <frosch123> it doesn't work with stock wine though
19:10:14 <frosch123> apparently you need overwatch-wine
19:11:13 <Wolf01> I played on wine, is the problem since last patch?
19:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i still haven't found a nice way, if i have a src.rpm, to simply inject a patch on top of it, and build it the same way that the original rpm was built
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19:37:19 <quiznilo> I have ships bringing Farming Supplies to a station, station says it accepts Farming Supplies, however, they're piling up on the docks
19:39:45 <quiznilo> now forest is using Farm Supplies... sort of
19:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> did you tell the ship to "transfer"?
19:42:34 <quiznilo> nope, shared orders are displayed
19:43:57 <Eddi|zuHause> does the same station provide and accept supplies?
19:45:04 <quiznilo> so... I should make a new port, out of range of this firs Port?
19:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no, make "unload and leave empty" orders
19:46:30 <quiznilo> I have some patchset, I don't have that option
19:46:45 <quiznilo> I have 'unload by cargo type'
19:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the "leave empty" bit is the important one
19:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the "unload" bit is only to flush the currently undeliverable cargo out
19:48:34 <quiznilo> 'noloading' gave me 'and leave empty'
19:49:12 <quiznilo> oh hell, I see now... the port itself is generating farm supplies... primary industry
19:49:58 <quiznilo> nope, (unload by cargo type and leave empty) is still leaving farm supplies on this dock
19:50:31 <quiznilo> trying just (unload all and leave empty) now
19:50:52 <quiznilo> still leaving farm supplies on the dock
19:51:10 <glx> probably those originating from this station
19:51:22 <quiznilo> wish I could just tell forest to use farm supplies that Port is outputting
19:51:47 <glx> your ships picked them earlier and deliverd them to this station
19:51:52 <quiznilo> it's a FIRS port, it is indeed self-generating farm supplies as a primary industry, I didn't even notice it
19:52:26 <glx> as they were probably not accepted by the other port
19:52:47 <quiznilo> they did, I just give ship orders to go to dock, which accepts farm supplies, and it started the primary production, I didn't even notice the port there
19:53:38 <glx> always try to set "leave empty" when you don't expect to load something after delivery
19:53:58 <quiznilo> the easiest solution it seems to me is just put up a second dock for farm supplies, create a ship to move Port-generated FS from one dock to the other
19:54:18 <quiznilo> the second dock would be out of range of the port but in range of the forest
19:54:30 <quiznilo> good tip, I'll remember that
19:54:38 <glx> stations "supplies" cargo only if there is a demand
19:55:26 <quiznilo> yeah, I've 'dirtied' many stations by sending some train to the wrong station at an industry and had to delete the station and change a bunch of train orders
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20:04:17 <quiznilo> I will be using waypoints more in my layouts also, I think that they're better than creating a bunch of different stations at an industry
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20:11:37 <Alberth> newer openttds stop accepting "wrong" cargo after some long time
20:11:55 <quiznilo> wow, that's good to know
20:20:14 <supermop> when does arc furnace become available?
20:34:39 <supermop> found this when looking for photos:
20:35:12 <supermop> no Idea what i'd use that for but I want one
20:39:04 <quiznilo> can you buy a mill like that, and then tape on an arduino thing, or RPi and have insta-CNC?
20:39:28 <quiznilo> well, add motors too of course
20:39:50 <supermop> quiznilo: probably not, as you'd need a ton of motors, actuators, etc
20:40:26 <quiznilo> actually, I'd take a non-CNC mill
20:41:14 <supermop> probably won't find one much cheaper than that, but building a cnc milling machine would be fun
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20:59:58 <quiznilo> would love to get with a bunch of hobbyists, rent a shop somewhere, buy all these toys
21:00:17 <quiznilo> 3d printer, milling machine, lathe, electronics gear, everything
21:04:41 <andythenorth> there are people doing that
21:05:34 <quiznilo> there aren't any close to where I live, cept the one in South Philly
21:05:41 <quiznilo> hmm... maybe I should start one here
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22:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does "CNC" stand for?
22:09:41 <peter1138> computer numerical control
22:15:38 <frosch123> a "rotary cutter" is operated by hand and looking at analogue measures
22:15:58 <frosch123> a "nc rotary cutter" is operated by hand while looking at digital numeric displays
22:16:09 <frosch123> a "cnc rotary cutter" runs on a program
22:24:25 <frosch123> i like the comic strip in the first comment
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