IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-03-03
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02:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if the pikkaphone rings twice
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04:34:59 <openbu> Hi, I want to develop the openttd.
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05:43:47 <supermop> so the fake trams are more or less done now, before diving into the real trams i feel like drawingg buildings again or perhaps stations
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08:40:46 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: so, when can we expect openttd to be ported to unreal engine? :P
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10:24:09 <planetmaker> openbu, European evening hours is also an excellent time here on IRC
10:36:53 <openbu> oh,Nice to meet you ,I come from china,I'm going to devote a lot of time to improve openttd & openbu.org.
10:42:53 <peter1138> Download Speed: 2.91 Mbps
10:42:54 <peter1138> Upload Speed: 440 kbps
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12:32:29 <supermop> at 4x zoom, a slope is 32 px high?
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12:33:34 <V453000> probably not flawless, but pretty good
12:33:55 <supermop> when modelling it i need t make it a function of the diagonal across the tile though, whatever it is
12:34:23 <V453000> diagonal across the tile?
12:34:41 <supermop> trying to through tram tracks together quickly as these big 32bpp trams look odd on the ogfx track
12:35:19 <supermop> _ is an integer number of pixels, whereas / and \ only sort of are
12:35:41 <supermop> the slope height is presumably also an integer
12:36:32 <supermop> so if my tiles are 12 m or whatever a side, i can't just say they are 3m or whatever high
12:37:18 <Odd> nice work on snowy industries, planetmaker!
12:37:32 <V453000> I dont think I understand what do you want supermop :d
12:37:39 <supermop> also, it needs to be a length that when seen from the dimetric perspective appears to be whatever the correct size is
12:38:09 <supermop> basically i am saying, i cant just know how tall to model a slope in a 3d program
12:38:23 <V453000> I can tell you that height? :D
12:38:45 <supermop> you need to work backward from what it should look like in the sprite to figure out the height
12:39:26 <supermop> as something that is x units tall appears less than x units tall in dimetric
12:39:36 <V453000> on 10x10m for one tile, I have 2,04155 height
12:39:52 <supermop> should be an irrational number
12:40:37 <V453000> ok those are quite close :)
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12:41:09 <V453000> tunnel entrances are taller because openttd hax
12:41:20 <V453000> bridge pillars have that height
12:41:46 <DorpsGek> V453000: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
12:42:26 <V453000> so yeah, this is what you need?
12:42:53 <supermop> mostly i want to know how many pixels ottd wants
12:43:04 <supermop> i recall it was 8 in 1x
12:43:06 <V453000> that is in the tile masks I linked earlier
12:43:12 <supermop> just want to be sure
12:43:43 <V453000> 8 sounds low even for x1
12:44:20 <V453000> something like 24 in x1 looks more like it to me
12:44:33 <supermop> if so its easy i just draw a line normal to the angle of view that is 1/8 of a tile diagonal and i can scale that set of lines for each tile size i use
12:44:49 <supermop> pretty sure its between 7 and 10
12:45:33 <supermop> really i should have typed extra Us there not Ls noe Ss
12:45:47 <V453000> idk I just went with trying stuff
12:45:53 <V453000> I dont even know how I got that value
12:45:59 <V453000> I think I created an angle taken from zbase
12:49:28 <supermop> quick geometric construction in rhino i get 1836.12 mm for a 12m tile
12:49:47 <supermop> prettttty short clearance
12:50:00 <V453000> that sounds considerably different from 2.45 to me XD but ok if it works
12:50:34 <supermop> oh wait projected from wrong side of line
12:52:37 <V453000> that sounds a lot better :)
12:52:41 <supermop> i think rhino is cutting it off at .00
12:52:50 <V453000> sure max also only uses .xxx
12:52:57 <V453000> but I use cm so I wrote it to meters :)
12:52:58 <supermop> still a short clearance
12:53:24 <supermop> yeah i just have my tolerances set to 1.00 mm
12:53:41 <supermop> which is really too specific for ottd anyway
12:53:55 <supermop> would not use that in construction
12:55:36 <V453000> eh if you set your tile to be 1mm then it would make sense, it is totally relative :)
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13:21:33 <Oddingar> is there no other servers than those listed in the multiplayer menu?
13:22:14 <planetmaker> Oddingar, yes. But those are the servers which chose not to be announced
13:22:23 <FLHerne> Oddingar: You can host a server without listing it, but all the ones actually intended to be public will be
13:22:24 <planetmaker> s/announced/advertised
13:24:15 <Oddingar> ah, do you know if there is any servers that's not listed that are possible to join? might that be by being member of a forum or such?
13:25:11 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Why? openttd coop non-public, anything hosted for groups of friends
13:25:25 <FLHerne> Oddingar: The reddit ones are usually quite active, but they're public
13:25:53 <V453000> openttdcoop is completely possible to join.
13:28:09 <Oddingar> hm, i might be doing something wrong, there's only 4 servers online according to the list, one password protected, and the others are pretty occupied
13:28:57 <Oddingar> oh wait, might be because of version mismatch?
13:29:23 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Mismatched versions will still show
13:29:33 <planetmaker> FLHerne, openttdcoop has no non-public servers
13:30:15 <FLHerne> planetmaker, V453000: Ok, I'm mistaken :-)
13:30:51 <planetmaker> Oddingar, but you need to run the appropriate (thus identical) version of OpenTTD in order to join them.
13:31:16 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Hit the 'Find Server' button, if you haven't
13:31:32 <planetmaker> yup, good idea :)
13:31:55 <Oddingar> aye I did hit find server, and it lists about 30 or 40 servers or so
13:31:58 <Oddingar> but only four of them are online
13:32:18 <Oddingar> could be wrong version
13:32:42 <planetmaker> eh... well, any version should list all servers... thus roughly 300 currently
13:32:46 <FLHerne> Servers with an incompatible version will be listed, just with a red dot rather than green
13:32:52 <planetmaker> but it may take time till the server list is populated
13:33:15 <FLHerne> What do you mean by 'only four of them are online'?
13:33:18 <planetmaker> thus after you hit 'find servers' the servers are actually queried... which is a bit traffic in the background
13:33:49 <planetmaker> thus may possibly take a few seconds till your local view updates
13:33:51 <Oddingar> well there's four servers with green dot and rest is red dot
13:34:42 <Oddingar> but i'm running 1.5.0 beta 1, that might be the problem
13:35:35 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Ah yes, that's the version-compatibility indicator
13:35:52 <FLHerne> OpenTTD is multiplayer-compatible across platforms, but not versions
13:35:53 <Oddingar> thank you for your help, this might be interesting!
13:36:04 <FLHerne> Most servers are still on 1.4.4
13:36:39 <Oddingar> FIRS is supported on 1.4.4 right?
13:37:12 <FLHerne> (yellow is same version but with newgrfs not downloaded)
13:38:08 <Oddingar> I seee, I was sure it was online/offline indicator
13:38:11 <Oddingar> man do I feel stupid
13:38:53 <Oddingar> especially since I've been looking at this list since christmas and wondering why this awesome game has no more than 3 - 4 active servers -_-
13:40:14 <Oddingar> look at that, it works! thanks again :P
14:05:48 <planetmaker> Oddingar, don't the list columns have explanations which show when you hover over thme with the mouse?
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14:36:15 <Oddingar> they might do, planetmaker, but I'm good at assuming stuff :P
14:36:18 <Oddingar> often with bad resault
15:18:31 <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: when you're finished with making said port
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16:17:15 <Alberth> hmm, pre-condition is false for me :)
16:17:37 <planetmaker> vote already registered and counted
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16:44:21 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: that implies you actually want me anywhere near the code :P
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16:48:39 <planetmaker> oh, busy bee is already translated :)
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17:32:16 <V453000> serioze 32bpp mayhem cometh? :P
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17:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you proclaim it's always mayem...
17:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> (modulo word order)
17:48:52 <Alberth> mayhem is my middle name: V "mayhem" 453000
17:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes this sentence worse is that you have the same colour as V...
18:07:45 * frosch123 always deleted the marriage annoucement/invitation of his brother as spam
18:07:54 <frosch123> s/always/almost/ :/
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18:42:30 <Samu> i am getting an error Error 1 error C2678: binary '&=' : no operator found which takes a left-hand operand of type 'Owner' (or there is no acceptable conversion) (..\src\depot.cpp) c:\openttd\trunk\src\core\bitmath_func.hpp 62 1 openttd
18:44:40 <Terkhen> google search for C2678, you will find many explanations about that error... at first glance it sounds like you are trying to apply an operator to a class/struct/whatever that does not support it
18:46:20 <glx> use a byte then covert it to owner
18:47:04 <TrueBrain> isnt OWNER_NONE the same? :D
18:47:21 <TrueBrain> and brrr, what a dirty piece of code :s
18:48:20 <Samu> was suggested to type that
18:48:40 <TrueBrain> doesnt change the fact it is dirty :D
18:52:25 <glx> SB() can't work with Owner
18:53:20 <glx> but I think we have a compatible type
18:53:34 <glx> check around Owner declaration
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19:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that post is meant as a rough sketch, more like pseudocode. you're supposed to figure out the details of how it should be done correctly by yourself.
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19:42:52 <Samu> Owner co = GetTileOwner(SB(co, 0, 2, GB(_me[t].m6, 0, 2)) | SB(co, 2, 2, GB(_me[t].m6, 6, 2)));
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19:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be helpful for you to learn what each of these pieces do, before combining them
19:52:06 <glx> yeah, coding is not like playing with lego bricks
19:52:26 <Alberth> nah, the internet can tell you :)
19:52:59 <andythenorth> coding is not lego bricks? :o
19:53:14 <andythenorth> that explains a lot of my problems :(
19:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, some bits of lego-piecing are equivalent to coding
19:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but generally not the other way around :p
19:54:15 <Alberth> :o all the OO design ideas !
19:54:28 <andythenorth> lego doesn’t encapsulate much
19:54:39 <andythenorth> no declaring a public interface with the internals hiddens
19:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> lego bricks have a fairly well-designed interface
19:55:10 <andythenorth> also nobody ‘cheats’ by having their lego bricks use the _private vars and methods of other objects
19:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> one side has a knob, and it goes into the other side of another brick
19:56:18 <andythenorth> OO isn’t on a grid
19:56:23 <andythenorth> which sometimes bothers me
19:56:32 <andythenorth> UI design is on a grid
19:56:39 <andythenorth> SQL kind of is a grid
19:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you can arrange UML diagams on a grid
19:57:24 <andythenorth> and generate all your classes from them
19:57:50 <andythenorth> “now a system analyst can specify the system, no developers needed…”
19:57:54 <andythenorth> “…exept for integration"
19:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i never quite figure out what people actually USE uml fore
19:58:13 <andythenorth> they use it to sell tooling software
19:58:21 <andythenorth> and get views for presentations on slideshare
19:59:11 <andythenorth> I guess Lego has objects, and they are orientated
19:59:22 <andythenorth> battery box...receivers…motors
19:59:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can show them to someone to tell them that they don't understand your stuff
19:59:38 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: we used it for making class diagrams
19:59:47 <andythenorth> frosch123: or that they need to use a new methodology
19:59:50 <frosch123> if you would show them your code, they would claim in it badly written, if they do not understand it
20:00:03 <andythenorth> you can use it to sell training courses
20:00:59 <frosch123> it is hard to claim that a nicely shaded uml diagram is badly drawn or something :p
20:01:12 <andythenorth> I don’t like the whitespace
20:01:13 <frosch123> you just blame the drawing software then
20:01:20 <Samu> wow crap, the 2nd part of the code works
20:01:20 <andythenorth> and the class names should be Hungarian
20:02:00 <Samu_> 2nd part worked, i just had to remove the assert line
20:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't simply walk into... err, remove asserts
20:03:53 <Alberth> you never remove the source of errors? :D
20:04:07 <michi_cc> Asserts are usually there for a reason...
20:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i did not say that
20:04:38 <Alberth> that much was clear Samu_ :)
20:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to be the problem, yes :p
20:05:48 <andythenorth> if the fire alarm goes off, just disconnect it
20:06:02 <andythenorth> try: foo except: pass
20:06:08 <andythenorth> never goes wrong
20:10:28 <Samu_> it was writting bits at m6 correctly
20:10:44 <Samu_> but is the assert needed?
20:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: that's not the point
20:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: triggering the assert means you have a place where you try to set the canal owner without there being a canal
20:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which could potentially mean that you overwrote data that another tile type stored there
20:21:33 <Samu_> assertion failed still :(
20:23:57 <Samu_> assert(HasTileWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL);
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20:33:16 <glx> Samu_: HasTileWaterClass() doesn't work like that
20:33:30 <glx> it just returns true or false
20:37:10 <Samu_> assert(IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) || IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT));
20:37:39 <Samu_> canal as waterclass, not canal=canal
20:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you're missing the point of an assert
20:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the assert tells you you're using the function wrong.
20:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but that means you don't need to change the assert
20:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but to change where you USE the function
20:41:31 <Wolf01> today is a bad day... broken the code, fixed the code, code the broken, fixed the broken, broken the previous fix
20:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> now you just have to code the break
20:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> how about making a code break?
20:48:34 <Wolf01> that's the intent, but I need to wait at least until tomorrow evening.. when the dentist will try to break my mouth, then I'll ask a break for the next 2 working days :P
20:50:14 <Samu_> i think the assert is annoying me
20:50:22 <Samu_> what's wrong with the fucntion
20:50:42 <Wolf01> maybe it's not the right function to use
20:52:15 <Samu_> there is no assert line at SetRoadOwner
20:53:06 <Wolf01> then it should need an "assert(IsRoad(t))"
20:54:44 <Wolf01> it DOES have the assert, just follow the function calls
20:57:21 <Samu_> i dont get what that is
20:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: generally, whatever is in "@pre" should also be an assert
20:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: and also, the existing code is not always an example of how things should be done
21:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> call the janitor
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21:27:00 <Samu> oh, i have updated documentation for my "yet to exist" patch
21:27:21 <Samu> can you revise it please?
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21:27:47 <Samu> i used microsoft word to edit html, dunno if it break anything
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21:37:04 <Celestar> and that surprises you?
21:37:11 <Celestar> It's called Word for a reason.
21:37:21 <Celestar> It works when you work on a single word.
21:37:27 <Celestar> it's not called Microsoft Book.
21:37:47 <Samu> it's saving as a web page, not as a single htlm
21:38:09 <Celestar> Because Word is the worst product MS ever made :P
21:38:14 <Celestar> It has no ... use case.
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21:39:22 <glx> oh it's ok to write a letter :)
21:39:48 <Celestar> it is OK to write a letter, yes.
21:39:56 <Celestar> but there are tools that do that better.
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21:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> letter as in the thing that makes up words, or letter as in the thing that you send by mail?
21:41:40 <Samu> can't uplaod html to forum
21:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> # Sie müssen erst den Nippel durch die Lasche ziehn
21:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i always liked the functionality of WordPerfect more than Word
21:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause> like, line numbering... whenever i tried that in Word, it ended up wrong, and unfixable.
21:46:37 <Samu> you can set the space after and before a line
21:46:38 <Celestar> WYSIWIG is a rotten concept for creating documents
21:47:03 <Celestar> I've never seen it produce even remotely useful results
21:47:21 <Celestar> 99.99% of word documents make me wanna vomit.
21:47:45 <Samu> tell me if it's opening the htmls fine
21:49:05 <Samu> i've edited class 5, 6, 8 and A
21:49:30 <Samu> but don't know if it's clear
21:54:06 <Samu> I still don't know if have to edit objects and tunnel/bridge
21:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you find that out by placing asserts in the right places. when it blows up, you know you have to change it
21:57:56 <Samu> aqueducts are not canals, just found out
21:59:45 <Samu> who are object owners in the game?
21:59:54 <Samu> can a company own an object?
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22:06:23 <Samu_> SB(_me[t].m6, 2, 4, 0); SB(_me[t].m6, 0, 2, 0); SB(_me[t].m6, 6, 2, 0);
22:06:53 <Samu_> is this just me or is it the same as _me[t].m6 = 0
22:22:20 <Oddingar> wish I could help, but got no clue, samu
22:23:09 <Samu_> i bet it is missing asserts
22:23:18 <Samu_> but don't know what to do about it
22:26:29 <Oddingar> what are you working on?
22:27:13 <Samu_> trying to store owners at m6
22:28:58 <Oddingar> looks like you got your hands full
22:29:42 <Samu_> can't put it in practice
22:30:23 <Samu_> setting water is working fine, apparently, but something is amiss
22:30:33 <Samu_> getting water ... no idea
22:31:16 <Samu_> i didn't put anything related about OWNER_TOWN to OWNER_NONE conversion
22:32:52 <Oddingar> is it easy to pull information from industries and use it somewhere else? like write it over on a sign placed near an industry
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22:48:19 <Samu_> seems like this deals with the issue
23:05:13 <Samu> but at m1 cell it is wrong lol
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23:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well. design by committee :)
23:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but obviously the continuation of that bridge as a bridge would have needed a much bigger bridge, to let ships pass
23:50:33 <Samu> looks like i got to edit tile_map too
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