IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-30
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00:04:26 <Mazur> Eddi|zuHause, we're getting a 21 °C saturday here.
00:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes, something like that
00:11:23 <SmatZ> Mazur: do you live in cetral africa?
00:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental todo list: town cargo and track introduction dates*
00:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: that's fairly typical april weather... one week it's -4°C and the next it's +20°C
00:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it can go back and forth a few times
00:12:59 <glx> SmatZ: we have 11°C right now, and almost 20°C during the day
00:13:33 <Mazur> SmatZ, nope, north-west European continent.
00:14:02 <glx> during the week end I had to close the window at night, but it was open for almost 7 days 24/24
00:14:50 <Mazur> That must have bugged you.
00:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was warmer during last week, but the weekend it got cold again
00:16:07 <Mazur> No, I mean, heat + open window = bugs.
00:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the nasty ones come around july
00:17:56 <Mazur> Some old mosquito awoke from it's winter sleep yesterday evening.
00:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that is really unlikely :p
00:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> mosquitos have a lifespan of a few weeks, they can't survive a winter
00:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> they hatch from eggs as soon as it's warm enough
00:20:22 <glx> unless you find the water where the eggs are :)
00:26:16 <Mazur> Well, some little nasty bloodsucking bug that whines in your ear just before it strikes at you, or keeps whining every time you are just about to fall into sleep.
00:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean an insect. it's very unlikely that it's a bug.
00:53:48 <Mazur> Gods, we ARE picking the nits today.
00:54:43 <Mazur> Midgets bug me, so theyŕe bugs.
00:56:57 * Mazur suddenly has an image of a chimpanzee on his back painstakingly going through his hair looking for any and all insects.
01:15:59 <SmatZ> FBI spends millions of trying to decypher text consisting of random letters :P
01:18:06 <SmatZ> it can be generated by some ditched rng, that for some reason likes to output "SE" often :)
01:18:44 <SmatZ> anyway, the more time FBI and similiar organisations spend on this stuff, the less time they have to bother normal people
01:18:48 <__ln__> almost every line on page in ends with BE or SE
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01:29:21 <__ln__> ok, did anyone find the answer yet?
01:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if i say "i found an elegant answer, but it does not fit in this space", and then die soon after...
01:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> they should have announced it as "aliens may have sent this message" to get the proper target group interested :p
01:44:26 <Mazur> The first has been done, but the second may very well be true.
01:44:43 <Mazur> As it's the FBI, I was loathe to even look at it.
01:46:13 <supermop> the fbi is not the cia
01:47:41 <Mazur> They'll still abuse the Patriot act and the DMCA and such.
01:48:20 <supermop> the laws themselves are abuses, they just enfoce them
01:48:31 <Mazur> They're Merkins, of course they abuse it.
01:49:17 <Mazur> And the Merkins that chose them.
01:49:40 <supermop> when it comes to human rights abuses et al, thats not the fbi
01:50:19 <supermop> nsa is just people working on computers
01:51:04 <supermop> secret service just prosecutes money counterfetters
01:51:29 <supermop> my friend works at the nsa, its really pretty boring
01:51:54 <supermop> most coming up with encryption stuff
01:52:22 <Mazur> Wikipedia also alleges they do not do field work.
01:53:22 <supermop> they aren't set up for that, and there are many other covert agencies that are better equiped for it
01:53:47 <supermop> such as the cia, which can act independently of dod
01:54:51 <Mazur> Hah! I finally fixed my old PC.
01:55:02 <supermop> if dod wanted to use field assets, they would use the special operations divisions within the various armed services
01:55:21 <Mazur> scp-ing a fsck binary to replace the missing one was sufficient for booting.
01:56:12 <Mazur> Yes, seals and other such animals.
01:57:08 <supermop> hm so right now i live in a city i love, and enjoy myy work, but it is not advancing my career and the pay is awful
01:58:40 <supermop> I could however, move to a city that is ok, but cant compare to this one, in an industry i vehemently disagree with, that also would not advance my career, but for a lot more money
01:58:47 <Mazur> Or do you have to take out another mortgage every time you pass a doctor, too.
01:59:07 <supermop> right now i have an amazing benefit plan,
01:59:15 <supermop> 100% employer contribution
01:59:26 <supermop> good anywhere with any doctors
01:59:30 <Mazur> Well, that's something.
01:59:40 <supermop> but, i am young and healthy
02:00:07 <Mazur> Lets keep it that way, then.
02:00:07 <supermop> and the salary is is less that 75% of what i made when i first left university
02:00:31 <supermop> which is going to affect all of my subsequent salaries att other jobs
02:03:42 <supermop> eddi, how iis chpp v 12?
02:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> still sucking at map generation with more heightlevels
02:07:00 <supermop> i have a decent 24 hr scheduled map on 11.5
02:07:13 <supermop> but its getting a bit full, and is almost 2050
02:07:30 <supermop> maybe its time to move on
02:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be savegame safe
02:16:24 <supermop> i should make a map of this
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03:05:50 <supermop> hmm, the edges of the topography lines look really bad
03:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's often too much noise
03:08:57 <supermop> any way to mitigate it?
03:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, rewrite tgp.cpp
03:13:45 <supermop> oddly enough it doesn't seem to always be a problem, just sometimes
03:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or play around with the roughness settings
03:23:56 <supermop> ill just find some valley in west virginia to use or something
03:25:26 <supermop> you seem to be up pretty late, by the way
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04:18:35 <confound> does tractive effort affect acceleration?
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09:18:16 <andythenorth> Faster ships? :P
09:19:20 * andythenorth proposes a black cube, capacity 10,000t, speed 80mph
09:26:33 <andythenorth> it's a train game :P
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09:30:32 <Terkhen> these futuristic ships could be made to look like trains then
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09:31:21 <andythenorth> rail type: hovercraft
09:31:25 <andythenorth> make it invisible
09:31:33 <andythenorth> futurism is silly :)
09:31:39 <andythenorth> all the exciting machinery is in the past
09:33:38 <andythenorth> Terkhen: also ships used to be faster
09:33:44 <andythenorth> they go slower in recent times
09:34:18 <Terkhen> why? faster is always better :P
09:34:45 <andythenorth> large fast ships face certain problems
09:35:02 <andythenorth> like running into wave crests at 200mph can be....not optimal
09:35:38 <andythenorth> irl it's just cheaper on fuel to run slower
09:35:45 <andythenorth> express freight goes by air
09:36:07 <andythenorth> but if faster ships are wanted...
09:36:48 <Terkhen> I don't think that coding the property and the changes to the ship controller are worth the effort in this case
09:37:14 <Terkhen> 127 is quite a lot for ships already
09:41:19 <andythenorth> they should just use trains or planes
09:41:32 <andythenorth> what's the point if all vehicle types are equal?
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10:56:20 <Wolf01> [11:36:12] <andythenorth> but if faster ships are wanted... <- ekranoplanes
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11:44:54 <SmatZ> when I am replacing smaller disk by bigger one, how safe is it to just do "dd /dev/hdb /dev/hda", and then use fdisk to create new partition on the rest of hda? it uses win XP (NTFS)
11:45:22 <SmatZ> of course after backupping stuff :)
11:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: rather use fdisk first to make similar sized partitions, and then dd /dev/hdb1 ... etc.
11:52:23 <planetmaker> SmatZ, worked for me nicely
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11:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it may depend on how well the partitions are aligned
11:52:54 <planetmaker> though it was fat32, but that shouldn't matter afaik
11:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and make sure /dev/hdb1 is not mounted as read-write currently.
12:04:34 <__ln__> SmatZ: yes, dd'ing the whole disk works fine. then you can delete and re-create the last partition and run ntfsresize on it.
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12:19:23 * andythenorth wonders if there's a way to hide a single forum thread from view
12:19:40 <andythenorth> BROS thread fills me with despair every time I foolishly read it
12:24:48 <planetmaker> heya andythenorth
12:25:24 <peter1138> WHEN, WILL I, WILL I BE FAMOUS...
12:38:44 <peter1138> If I am, where's my millions? :S
12:39:04 <Ammler> those come, when you die
12:40:26 <peter1138> Ah. What an embuggerance...
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13:05:20 * Belugas searches his cds for Metallica - Black album
13:05:38 <Belugas> i have enter sandman in my head, i NEED enter sandman!
13:06:31 <Wolf01> it's not difficult to see, it's *black*
13:08:09 <Belugas> and it's a freaking good album too
13:08:27 <Belugas> not my favorite, honestly
13:08:43 <Belugas> i just LOVE Ride The Lightning
13:08:49 <Belugas> that was a real killer
13:09:15 <Belugas> head to head after that one, there is Master Of Puppets and Black album
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15:12:12 <mib_2hcork> hallo, bin ihc im Open ttd Channel gelandet`?
15:13:19 <mib_2hcork> Also ich habe auf der OpenTTD Internetseite unter Hilfe geschaut, da stand dieser IRC Channel als Anlaufstelle
15:13:21 <supermop> thats not really even german
15:13:23 <Yexo> mib_2hcork: yes, but this is an english only channel
15:13:38 <mib_2hcork> I try it in english
15:14:15 <mib_2hcork> short question, can I become here help for openttd?
15:15:41 <Yexo> sure, there are many things one can do to help openttd
15:16:16 <Yexo> in that case, yes, you can get help here
15:18:10 <mib_2hcork> ok, my name is Manfred an my last english lesson was for seven years. I have a problem with the renew funktion of the busses and trains
15:18:42 <mib_2hcork> I will that the bus automaticly renew to the new model.
15:18:53 <Yexo> you can use autoreplace for that
15:24:39 <mib_2hcork> ok, thats the problem, in my list you can only change send to depot
15:25:15 <Yexo> you have to open the list from the main toolbar, not from a station/depot/other place
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15:28:27 <mib_2hcork> ok, i have found the main toolbar, but in it you can voete service ant depot
15:28:49 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:29:16 <Yexo> I think "chose" is the word you're looking for, not "vote"
15:32:16 <__ln__> I think "choose" is the word you mean
15:32:21 <mib_2hcork> ok thanks, now it is working
15:36:10 <confound> andythenorth: heqs crawlers almost always seem overshadowed by the industrial trams -- what am I missing? are they mostly just eye candy?
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15:59:34 <lugo> confound, well i think there are mostly for having >1 crate farm/engeneering supplies at a certain primary industry per month
15:59:44 <lugo> so income/capacity don't matter too much
16:00:18 <confound> then why do they carry up to 120 tons of stuff?
16:00:22 <andythenorth> confound: the crawlers are eye candy
16:00:28 <andythenorth> I like bulldozers
16:00:36 <confound> me too, so I want to use them! except then they make me sad
16:00:43 <andythenorth> that's why you can turn them off in latest heqs
16:00:54 <supermop> i want them to buldoze
16:01:18 <supermop> route crawler through transmitter, problem solved!
16:02:45 <supermop> that pesky town wont let you destroy that road? drive the crawler over it!
16:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's an idea for roadtypes: crawler on normal road => insane running cost
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16:10:26 <supermop> what about off road vehicles, that can route over empty tiles using the ship pathfinder and trail blazes (bouys), at very low speed and high cost
16:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> not going to happen
16:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
16:12:42 <confound> what would be the point?
16:13:01 <supermop> same as the crawlers themselves,
16:15:47 <andythenorth> crawlers are awaiting roadtypes
16:15:56 <andythenorth> then they will be more useful
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16:16:19 <andythenorth> unfortunately I'm the only one currently working on rt afaik
16:16:27 <andythenorth> and I'm no good :P
16:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> blame peter1138 ;)
16:17:10 <supermop> let me know if i can help: i am sure i cannot, but might as well try
16:17:31 <confound> (I don't know anything about roadtypes)
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17:31:39 <supermop> hey, what gender is Maband?
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17:36:01 <supermop> pluralize it with -en?
17:36:55 <supermop> we are ordering a bunch from germany for our company
17:37:28 <frosch123> are there special "Maßbänder"?
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17:40:24 <frosch123> hmm, actually "Bänder" vs. "Bande" vs. "Banden" is quite funny :)
17:41:38 <frosch123> only wanted plurals :)
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17:42:10 <frosch123> all of them could be considered plural of "Band" if you'ren't native
17:42:14 <supermop> they are indeed special
17:42:34 <supermop> from the company bmi
17:42:57 <supermop> to be made in our colors with printing (2cc!)
17:43:00 <planetmaker> Band, Band, Bande -> Bänder, Bände, Banden :-)
17:43:27 <frosch123> planetmaker: yup :p
17:45:07 <Alberth> like Bender, but with an 'a' :)
17:47:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22279 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt portuguese.txt unfinished/faroese.txt):
17:47:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:47:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: faroese - 139 changes by HPJ
17:47:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by lugo
17:47:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 3 changes by JayCity
17:47:49 <frosch123> supermop: are you sure "bmi" is the company name?
17:48:20 <Prof_Frink> supermop is buying an aeroplane.
17:48:20 <supermop> not to be confused with tape measures for body mass index
17:48:22 <frosch123> google only sends me into body-mass-index stujff
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18:18:32 <flitz> hi, stupid question: when I do "Train *t = new Train();" the game crashes and I get "pool_func.hpp: this->checked != 0". I know how vehicles are derived from pools and so on but I somehow don't get around this issue, still :/
18:21:32 <andythenorth> maybe we could finalise a spec for cargo refit cb?
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18:22:51 <frosch123> flitz: first call CanAlloc() or something like that
18:23:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: any progress?
18:27:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: does it need to spec what functions need to change etc?
18:27:06 <andythenorth> or return values?
18:27:32 <andythenorth> can't think what else is missing
18:27:36 <frosch123> hmm? it should be completely from newgrf pov
18:27:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: the answers to the three questions? :p
18:28:06 <andythenorth> should it specify a capacity multiplier?
18:28:27 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how that interacts with the madness of how different vehicle types handle capacity multiplier
18:28:39 <andythenorth> I think you're the only person on the planet who might understand that
18:28:57 <andythenorth> you drew the archeological diagram :D
18:29:16 <frosch123> i guess we should first take on "who has the final call? vehicle or cargo?"
18:30:08 <andythenorth> assuming one of the goals is to allow dealing with legacy vehicle sets
18:30:14 <frosch123> imo you can either go for "only ever ask the cargo for stuff the vehicle grf does not know" or "both can deny refitting, both need to agree to enable refitting"
18:30:44 <andythenorth> is there are valid case where authors may have made incorrect or outdated assumptions about a cargo label?
18:31:11 <Nite> its treu that when u use "buy shares" in ottd the company from which you buy them does not get any money?
18:31:35 <frosch123> i kind of prefer the former, as a cargolabel defines the cargo quite precise, so the vehicle grf should know best if it knows the cargo
18:31:39 <andythenorth> frosch123 there's a compromise case currently where FIRS and ECS disagree about WDPR, but we've agreed to live with it because the label is worth sharing
18:31:44 <andythenorth> not sure if that helps or not
18:31:52 <frosch123> otoh, cargos can only inprecisely detect vehicle types
18:32:30 <frosch123> Nite: why should it?
18:32:41 <frosch123> you are not buying the stocks on first emission
18:33:15 <flitz> frosch123: thanks CleanPool() seems to have worked
18:33:29 <Yexo> flitz: CleanPool() is definitely not the correct method
18:33:39 <andythenorth> frosch123: so in first option, you'd rely on vehicle grf CTT?
18:33:42 <frosch123> just wanted to say that :p
18:33:43 <andythenorth> too many conversations :P
18:33:45 <Nite> then who else has the first emission ;)
18:35:45 <Nite> i mean buying shares is only good for hte one who buys them, it actually makes no difference for the company that gives them out
18:35:46 <frosch123> Nite: i could agree that it is kind of unfair that you cannot buy your own stocks
18:36:08 <Nite> wel i guess its pretty rudimentary and not that important ...
18:37:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: i would rather also add a callback for vehicles, so they can properly check all labels they know
18:37:12 <Nite> buying your own stocks is wierd rather choose if you want to sell them or not
18:37:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: sounds like we need more spec :)
18:37:25 <frosch123> but different classes for the same cargo will always break stuff
18:37:34 <andythenorth> my case is somewhat biased by my desire to control vehicle refitting :P
18:37:35 <Nite> and getting the money actually would add a nice touch ...
18:37:36 <flitz> Yexo: now it doesn't even seem to make a difference if I delete the CleanPool() line again *headscratch*
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18:38:42 <Yexo> flitz: call Vehicle::CanAllocateItem (and make sure it returns true) before you call new Train
18:38:46 <andythenorth> that's interesting
18:38:50 <andythenorth> TWOD isn't used?
18:38:54 <andythenorth> that closes a bug :P
18:39:59 <frosch123> yeah, TWOD is a fun case
18:40:32 <frosch123> it was listed as builtin-cargo for several years, which was never true though :p
18:45:53 <andythenorth> that explains something I spent some time testing :(
18:48:27 <frosch123> number 2) from pikka would only apply to "default cargo". and the "default cargo" property is useless independent of whether it is a slot or a bit
18:48:43 <frosch123> i.e. what to choose if the default is not present at all?
18:48:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: sorry, I see you answered it in the thread already :|
18:49:07 * andythenorth should have read more
18:49:08 <frosch123> that's why the callback uses a priority to allow every cargo to become the default one
18:49:22 <andythenorth> so if both vehicle set and cargo set use cb, who wins?
18:49:29 <flitz> Yexo: thanks, it works now. If I just called CanAllocateItem() and printed the result and then tried to 'new Train()' it crashed (although the result was 1), but computing CanAllocateItem() as if-condition made a difference
18:49:32 <andythenorth> do they AND, or does one have priority?
18:51:11 <andythenorth> and also /me misses dalestan :|
18:51:51 <planetmaker> anyone needs a rough setting to his proper place? Or why?
18:52:51 <andythenorth> he got stuff done
18:53:21 <andythenorth> and people trod the forums in fear :P
18:53:49 <flitz> what is exactly the difference between 'a *b = new a();' and 'a *b; if(true) b=new a();' ?
18:53:56 <frosch123> planetmaker: he was for a long time the only ttdp guy with rational reasoning :)
18:54:04 <andythenorth> there is currently a low standard of correct flaming in the forums :P
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18:55:55 <SmatZ_> [20:49:23] <flitz> Yexo: thanks, it works now. If I just called CanAllocateItem() and printed the result ... <== then you either did something wrong, or you didn't do what you say
18:56:51 <flitz> Yes, I was probably some wrong call before, like CanAllocate() or something, my bad
19:13:15 <andythenorth> do FIRS Machine Shop windows suck?
19:32:15 <andythenorth> well, I concluded yes
19:32:18 <andythenorth> and am redrawing
19:35:45 <supermop> will 3x3 town buildings ever be possible?
19:41:18 <planetmaker> eternity is long. Especially towards the end.
19:42:10 * andythenorth is half way through a redrawing task
19:42:15 <andythenorth> maybe beer will help
19:42:26 * andythenorth discovers a cup of tea
19:42:30 <andythenorth> that's what wives do then
19:56:10 <andythenorth> needs roadtypes :P
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21:40:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r22280 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: update the 40+x station vars caches when displaying them in the NewGRF debug gui
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22:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> hmm, actually "Bänder" vs. "Bande" vs. "Banden" is quite funny :) <-- Der Band -> Die Bände, Die Band -> Die Bands, Das Band -> Die Bänder. how do you get "Banden"?
22:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i only get: Die Bande -> Die Banden
22:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "Der Band" as in a volume of a book, "Die Band" as in the music group, "Das Band" as in a string/thread, and "Die Bande" as in a wall/barrier
22:39:37 <supermop> i was asking about tape measures
22:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i know. that was not the point
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