IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-10-16
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00:00:00 <TrueBrain> ovi: you are always free to ask :)
00:00:18 <Sacro|Laptop> TrueBrain: Arch > Gentoo
00:00:29 <ovi> I am trying to start a server and my friend cannot see me
00:00:43 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
00:00:49 <ovi> I opened the ports in the router
00:01:10 <TrueBrain> Sacro|Laptop: for example, Gentoo puts games in /usr/games/share and /usr/share/games .. what should go in what is slightly vague, but I got it :)
00:01:13 <Sacro|Laptop> did you forward them to the server machine?
00:01:19 <TrueBrain> (the dir /usr/share/openttd is VERY invalid ;))
00:01:23 <Sacro|Laptop> TrueBrain: that's stupid
00:01:29 <Sacro|Laptop> why is /usr/share/openttd invalid?
00:01:33 <TrueBrain> we call that a policy
00:01:42 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/bin/
00:01:42 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/bin/openttd
00:01:42 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/
00:01:42 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/applications/
00:01:43 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/applications/openttd.desktop
00:01:44 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/doc/
00:01:46 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/doc/openttd/
00:01:48 <TrueBrain> @kick Sacro|Laptop SPAM!
00:01:48 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/doc/openttd/32bpp.txt
00:01:48 *** Sacro|Laptop was kicked by DorpsGek (SPAM!)
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00:02:08 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/openttd.16.png
00:02:10 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/
00:02:12 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/
00:02:14 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/256x256/apps/openttd.256.png
00:02:15 <TrueBrain> @kban 30 Sacro|Laptop SPAM!
00:02:15 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 30 is not in #openttd.
00:02:16 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/
00:02:18 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/
00:02:20 <Sacro|Laptop> openttd /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/openttd.32.png
00:02:20 <TrueBrain> @kban Sacro|Laptop 30 SPAM!
00:02:20 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM
00:02:21 *** Sacro|Laptop was kicked by DorpsGek (SPAM!)
00:02:40 <TrueBrain> I hate clients which resume their paste after a kick ...
00:02:50 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM
00:03:08 <ovi> hey guys, how do I forward the ports to the server?
00:03:20 <TrueBrain> read the manual of your router
00:03:37 <ovi> I did that, in the router and I opened the ports but still no luck
00:03:57 <TrueBrain> while opening, you tell the router to where to forward
00:03:59 <TrueBrain> make sure that is okay
00:04:03 <ovi> it will work in the LAN but not over the net
00:04:30 <vvv444> ovi: 1. Have you ensured router restart isn't required after configuration update?
00:04:49 <ovi> I did not try that, I will give it a shot
00:05:15 <vvv444> ovi: 2. Does the computer you are trying to connect to has DHCP address?
00:05:43 <vvv444> ovi: 3. If you give the router model maybe I can help you more.
00:05:43 <ovi> it is a computer in Romania, but nobody can see me
00:06:05 <vvv444> Do you know what DHCP is at all?
00:06:47 <vvv444> What OS does the comp have?
00:06:52 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
00:07:02 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
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00:08:18 <TrueBrain> Sacro|Laptop: to continue where we left off: each distro has its own policy. That is not silly, that is how the facts are
00:08:30 <Sacro|Laptop> they should follow the LSB
00:08:46 <TrueBrain> yeah, sure, the world should work in your image ..
00:08:49 <TrueBrain> what is wrong with people today :(
00:10:53 <TrueBrain> bah, all the prefixing ...
00:13:22 <TrueBrain> should be /usr/games, but that fails as man pages should go to /usr/share
00:14:02 <Sacro|Laptop> --manpath=/usr/share
00:14:18 <Sacro|Laptop> can't the gentoo chaps write their own ebuild?
00:14:33 <TrueBrain> which OpenTTD doesn't have (manpath)
00:14:41 <TrueBrain> they did .. and it is wrong
00:15:04 <Sacro|Laptop> the old ArchLinux pkgbuild have 5 lines of sed ><
00:15:44 <Sacro|Laptop> ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr --binary-dir=/bin --icon-dir=/share/pixmaps --data-dir=/share/openttd --personal-dir=/.openttd --install-dir=$startdir/pkg/
00:15:48 <Sacro|Laptop> is what we are using now
00:16:05 <TrueBrain> personal-dir is wrong
00:16:15 <Sacro|Laptop> seeing as there is a lack of DESTDIR
00:16:19 <Sacro|Laptop> what shoul it be?
00:17:01 <Sacro|Laptop> that is .openttd
00:17:20 <TrueBrain> then don't paste /.openttd
00:17:36 <Sacro|Laptop> can't be bothered to change it
00:20:12 <TrueBrain> annoying that data-dir is always prefixed with 'prefix'
00:22:53 <TrueBrain> turns out I do not need to worry so much
00:22:58 <TrueBrain> 'make install' is never executed :p
00:25:11 <TrueBrain> hmm ... what is the difference between shared dir and global data dir?
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00:29:59 <glx> <TrueBrain> hmm ... what is the difference between shared dir and global data dir? <-- probably a windows thing
00:32:46 <TrueBrain> so lets try my little ebuild ..
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00:41:56 <TrueBrain> Sacro|Laptop: tnx for your input nevertheless :)
00:42:18 <Sacro|Laptop> TrueBrain: yay :)
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00:45:28 <TrueBrain> oh, my ebuild works btw, and it seems to put the files in the right place :)
00:56:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14471 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.cpp: [NoAI] -Codechange: simplify some AIVehicle functions and store value returned by ::GetVehicle() when it's used multiple times
01:05:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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08:50:04 <DorpsGek> dih: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 33 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Brianetta> "Oh, did we say know? We meant care."
08:50:55 <dih> any other tcl fanatics in here?
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09:11:25 <TrueBrain> [ebuild N ] games-simulation/openttd-trunk-14468 USE="alsa iconv png zlib -debug -dedicated -timidity" 0 kB [1]
09:13:27 <TrueBrain> yeah ... Gentoo put it there
09:13:37 <TrueBrain> guess it makes sense :p
09:13:56 <TrueBrain> more the point was that I now have a latest-nightly ebuild :)
09:18:53 <petern> Typical. I compile as debug to... be able to debug something.
09:19:29 <planetmaker> petern: the reverse would be much more frustrating :)
09:19:37 <planetmaker> Have a tea, a cookie and relax :)
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09:30:56 <petern> I'd rather like the packages in my OS to just work, to be honest :p
09:39:39 <petern> Bah, why does Ardour (a GTK+ app) feel the need to impose its own colour schemes on me? :(
09:40:10 <TrueBrain> how do you get an application in your start menu ... :s
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09:43:07 <Gekz> then it's not a start menu
09:43:17 <Gekz> TrueBrain: which desktop environment
09:43:29 <TrueBrain> call it how ever you want, I truly don't care
09:44:03 <TrueBrain> KDE, Gnome, don't care
09:44:17 <TrueBrain> I assumed an entry in /usr/share/applications would be enough ..
09:44:54 <Gekz> probably too hardcore old
09:45:30 <Gekz> I know theres a command to update the cache
09:45:33 <petern> The modern way is a .desktop entry.
09:45:42 <TrueBrain> ah, lacks MimeType key ..
09:45:45 <TrueBrain> update-desktop-database
09:46:14 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, it is not in my menu yet :(
09:51:41 <Vikthor> TrueBrain: Maybe look into eutils.eclass, how they do it? (I gather you are on gentoo ...)
09:52:10 <TrueBrain> even more, I am trying to create an ebuild :p
09:53:55 <Vikthor> Well than use the functions from eutils.eclass( If you do and it does not work then sorry for stating the obvious)
09:54:18 <TrueBrain> make_desktop_entry, I use
09:54:21 <TrueBrain> but somehow it doens't show up
09:54:24 <TrueBrain> and I don't get why ..
09:55:05 <Vikthor> aha, well then sorry that's as far as I would get
09:55:43 <TrueBrain> tnx for helping anyway :)
09:57:21 <Vikthor> I am heading for lunch and to school, bye
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10:58:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14472 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: add docs/obg_format.txt in bundles too
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11:04:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14473 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: also install the root .txt and COPYING files to docs/
11:13:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14474 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in Makefile.in config.lib): -Add: allow --binary-name to set the name of the binary, icon, desktop file, etc. when installing. Useful to get a stable next to a trunk-nightly
11:33:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14475 /trunk/ (config.lib media/openttd.desktop.in): -Add: allow setting the name of the desktop item (follow-up on r14474)
11:35:10 <planetmaker> nice features, TrueBrain :)
11:45:10 <TrueBrain> best of all, finally the icons work ;)
11:46:19 <planetmaker> :P Don't care about that. But binary-name is nice :)
11:46:44 <planetmaker> but probably most people will care about symbols :)
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12:02:08 <Celestar> could someone do the cargodest<->trunk syncing in the next 3 weeks for me? I'm a tad busy :(
12:13:24 <TrueBrain> hmm .. Gentoo is annoying .. openttd is hard masked, and even so I now have a ebuild that shouldn't be hard masked, I have no way to override that from an overlay ..
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12:15:48 <emjay> Did anyone else notice that config.lib is broken?
12:18:15 <emjay> line 2562 is missing a " at the end i beleive
12:18:49 <TrueBrain> what is broken about it?
12:19:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14476 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix r14475: (no comment)
12:19:42 <Ammler> TrueBrain: do we also have high res icon for alt-tab now?
12:20:42 <TrueBrain> emjay: tnx for reporting :)
12:21:24 <TrueBrain> Ammler: before my commit, the openttd icons were named wrong
12:21:28 <TrueBrain> so no system understood them
12:21:40 <TrueBrain> 16x16/apps/openttd.16.png
12:21:44 <TrueBrain> 16x16/apps/openttd.png
12:23:38 <Ammler> hmm, what do I need to do?
12:23:39 <emjay> doesn't show an icon for me, just a little window of the game
12:23:53 <Ammler> just running ./bin/openttd
12:24:08 <TrueBrain> install of course :)
12:24:16 <TrueBrain> it needs to put the icons in the icons dir ;)
12:24:17 <Ammler> has still this ugly frame with compiz
12:24:28 <TrueBrain> but I don't know where your alt-tab stuff gets the icon from :)
12:24:38 <TrueBrain> my start-menu now does show the icon, so I am happy :)
12:25:12 <emjay> my gnome-do shows an icon, but alt-tab doesn't
12:26:37 <Ammler> alt-tab shows the open windows like they are and the minimized with symbols.
12:28:59 <emjay> Is there any project going on to reimplement the proprietary grf files?
12:29:15 <Ammler> did you ever visit tt-forums?
12:30:10 <emjay> I have lurked around for a while but never saw anything related
12:30:17 <emjay> (not in the svn logs, mind)
12:30:29 <emjay> so I take that as yes then?
12:31:01 <Ammler> happy me, google accept misspelling
12:31:13 <blathijs> emjay: There is a project by the name of "OpenGFX", there is a huge thread about it on the graphics section of the openttd forums
12:31:29 <Rubidium> and an equally huge one about the license ;)
12:33:03 <emjay> well, that'll learn me to ask first and research later :P
12:33:07 <Ammler> you are able to play with openttd without any original grfs
12:33:45 <FauxFaux> I've always wondered how playable it would be with just returning random colours if a grf that wasn't available was requested.
12:34:20 <emjay> alright, well I'd better be off
12:35:13 <Ammler> FauxFaux: if you use TTRS and a decent trainset, you should have nothing missing.
12:35:35 <Rubidium> FauxFaux: ./openttd -b 8bpp-debug
12:40:03 <FauxFaux> Oh, it already supports it? Cool. </at work and can't try it>
12:42:46 <fjb> Using semaphores is a big advantage in that mode. :-)
12:49:25 <dih> Brianetta: what you have wanted to do i have managed
12:49:46 <dih> i'll give you some code - one sec
12:55:08 <Brianetta> what did I want to do?
12:55:28 <DorpsGek> ln: babyottd was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 14 hours, 1 minute, and 12 seconds ago: <babyottd> Dictionary saved
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13:00:16 <dih> you remember wanting to get the command output from the console?
13:01:06 <dih> and having these loveley workarounds with echo doneclientcount ?
13:01:31 <dih> i have a similar approach and only use my thing of doneclientcount to get out of a nested expec block
13:02:09 <Brianetta> That works as long as nobody joins or quits in the middle of a running command
13:02:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14477 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix r14474: also name the links in the .desktop file correclty upon install
13:02:56 * planetmaker hands TrueBrain a cup of freshly brewed tea
13:03:11 <Brianetta> it's basically what I'd have done if I could have been bothered.
13:03:49 <dih> + the -re .+?\n instead of .*\n will get me each line separately
13:04:03 <dih> so there is no need to split the buffer on \n anymore
13:04:27 <dih> and there is no need to worry about empy lines :-P
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13:20:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14478 /branches/noai/ (67 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14450:14477
13:27:09 <fjb> Hm, the graphics card of my second pc shows the bios messages only on my tft monitor, not on the old tube monitor.
13:30:02 <dih> fjb: that is because your tube monitor is too slow
13:30:11 <dih> and needs time before it starts displaying a signal
13:30:28 <dih> and a 'tube' monitor is called a crt ;-)
13:30:33 <fjb> Too slow for showing the bios messages while booting? Is that not simple VGA?
13:31:49 <fjb> It even doesn't show the bios when I enter the bios via del. So the monitor has time to warm up befor displaying anything.
13:33:19 <dih> you have 2 displays connected
13:33:52 <fjb> I tryed it with both displays and with one at a time. Same effect.
13:34:45 <blathijs> Perhaps some fancy big screen that doesn't do text-mode?
13:34:56 <blathijs> I hade a big 21" CRT that didn't a while back
13:35:28 <fjb> No, simple super vga thing. Works perfectly with an old Matrox card on another pc.
13:36:09 <fjb> But this pc has a "new" GeForce FX5200.
13:36:43 <dih> and that should not be an issue
13:36:52 <blathijs> Perhaps it thinks it can do a 200Hz refresh rate, because the resolution is so low? :-p
13:36:57 <dih> check your bios if there are any specific video handling settings you can make
13:37:02 <fjb> When Windows boots up I see the windows screen flying by, but that timings are to high for that monitor so it switches off.
13:37:48 <fjb> Bios of the PC olny has AGP mode (4x, 8x) and AGP apperture size settings.
13:39:45 <fjb> Hm, doesn't that card send sync signals anymore?
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14:00:42 <Brianetta> [14:49] --- Ammler is now known as AmmIer
14:01:45 <Gekz> Brianetta: get a real font
14:01:54 <Brianetta> There's nothign unreal about Helvetica
14:02:09 <Gekz> it doesnt support lots of unicode
14:02:22 <Brianetta> well, there are some languages it doesn't
14:02:27 <Gekz> I'd like to see it render tibetan
14:02:33 <Brianetta> but I don't speak aboriginal antartic, or whatever
14:02:58 <Brianetta> Tibetan? They just use Chinese now (:
14:03:20 <Brianetta> OK, they just use Chinese now or get shot
14:03:41 *** archjb_ is now known as archjb
14:03:42 <Brianetta> OK, some evade detection
14:03:59 <Brianetta> but China really wants to shoot them (:
14:04:47 <Brianetta> Man, this Sudoku is hard
14:04:58 <Sacro> Brianetta: that one is a 3 *points*
14:05:01 <Brianetta> There are three in the Metro, a daily free paper found in UK railway stations
14:05:15 <Brianetta> The first two I do on the train before I reach work
14:05:21 <Brianetta> The third I often can't complete
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14:08:36 <Brianetta> wish sudoku.tcl 800200070000704030007005020009700003070209040200006700010300600020601000040002008
14:09:17 <Brianetta> I'm not using that tool, btw
14:09:29 <Brianetta> I'm solving it in my head, only writing down numbers in their final positions
14:09:30 <Sacro> sh: wish: command not found
14:09:38 <Brianetta> you need to install tcl/tk to run it
14:09:48 <Sacro> no wonder yaourt wish didn't find it
14:11:29 <Sacro> Brianetta: whoah, awesome app
14:11:45 <Brianetta> I scratched an itch
14:11:59 <Sacro> how do i unset a number
14:12:29 <Brianetta> It doesn't store the sudoku
14:12:40 <Brianetta> It just deletes the GUI elements
14:13:24 <Brianetta> It's a quick and dirty
14:13:36 <Brianetta> I wanted "sudoku like sherlock" and couldn't be bothered to do it properly
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14:34:17 <A_Person> Hmm, it seems from the table that it's nearly impossible to maintain a station rating of more than 79 early in the game, with stations outside of towns
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14:57:52 <planetmaker> interesting: openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/station_cmd.cpp:567: void UpdateStationAcceptance(Station*, bool): Assertion `(rect.right >= rect.left) == !st->rect.IsEmpty()' failed.
14:57:54 <planetmaker> Server has exited
14:58:23 <planetmaker> nearly latest trunk. PublicServer
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15:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> <Brianetta> Man, this Sudoku is hard <- took me 15 minutes and 27 seconds...
15:09:59 <Brianetta> Eddi: Did you jot notes?
15:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> in which sense do you mean?
15:10:36 <Brianetta> Did you write anything down except numbers which you knew to be correct?
15:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i'd answer that "yes"... i write down two kinds of numbers, correct ones, and "guessed" ones, where i have two alternatives, choose one, see where it leads me, and then can roll back to the point where i guessed
15:12:31 <Brianetta> I will find a logical deduction or I will not solve it
15:12:37 <Brianetta> I won't use trial and error
15:13:14 <blathijs> Isn't assuming a value and proving it inconsistent deduction as well? :-)
15:13:30 <Brianetta> It isn't using logic
15:13:56 <Brianetta> Bear in mind I'm doing the solving in my head
15:14:11 <Brianetta> I can't sit there completing the game for a guess
15:14:18 <Brianetta> then rewind and try something else
15:14:26 <Brianetta> That's just brute-forcing it
15:14:32 <Brianetta> I might as well feed it to a computer
15:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a hybrid technics
15:15:01 <Brianetta> I'm basically applying cryptography
15:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not real brute force, because i sit there very long deducing which options could actually lead me anywhere
15:16:00 <Brianetta> I've so far placed 14 cells
15:16:12 <Brianetta> which is fewer than were given as clues
15:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the first 10 or so are really easy...
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15:19:03 <[com]buster> I occasionally solve a sudoku via the assumption that there must be one unique solution
15:21:16 <A_Person> That's not always true...
15:22:06 <A_Person> But he probably knows that
15:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> sudokus that do not have a unique solution are much more difficult to solve
15:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> prime example is starting with an empty sheet ;)
15:23:15 <A_Person> A blank sheet should be relatively easy to "solve" tho
15:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever tried it?
15:26:07 <A_Person> Not really, but since there's nothing there before you can always go back a few choices and try a better pattern :D
15:27:01 <planetmaker> Eddi: shift lines by three every line, every 3rd shift by 4 instead of 3
15:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> as Brianetta suggested, going back is not always considered a good playing style
15:28:02 <A_Person> Going back is required if mistakes become evident :/
15:28:40 <planetmaker> which is evidence of a flawed algorithm :P
15:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and, a wrong number in the first few random placements can mean you have to roll back almost the whole game
15:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no mistakes :p
15:29:18 <planetmaker> yeah... the universe is deterministic :D
15:29:20 <A_Person> Why would you... oh right, I keep forgetting
15:29:33 <A_Person> Not everyone has a reluctance to do random choices
15:29:45 <A_Person> I'd never put stuff randomly, heh
15:30:05 <Brianetta> That's my only gripe with minesweeper
15:30:23 <A_Person> I remember liking minesweeper
15:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> how else would you start on an empty sheet?
15:30:57 <A_Person> start in a corner, with one number, finish one n umber in some pattern, and proceed with next
15:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the first row is completely arbitrary ;)
15:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the sudoku structure is invariant to permutation of the numbers ;)
15:31:49 <Brianetta> solving an empty one is, though, easy peasy
15:31:50 <planetmaker> well... and so on :)
15:32:28 <Brianetta> it only becomes difficult after ten numbers are filled in
15:32:29 <A_Person> Which is the hunch I have, should be easy
15:32:43 <A_Person> I should try sometime
15:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, i believe you that this attempt works, but how long does it take to find out that it works, if you knew nothing about sudokus?
15:32:50 <A_Person> I dropped my sudoku habbit a while ago
15:33:03 <A_Person> Never got very good at it
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15:33:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I guess pretty easy. You just need the rules and for an empty one it follows.
15:33:37 <A_Person> Just applied some basic solving rules, I actually had to look them up, I couldn't guess a way for solving it myself
15:33:39 <planetmaker> but hard to guess - as I did a few :)
15:33:44 <A_Person> a rational one anyway
15:34:42 <glx> Brianetta: hp48 minesweeper is better
15:35:13 <glx> you must go from top left to bottom right
15:35:58 <A_Person> oh, heh, yo meant the first guess?
15:36:01 <Brianetta> and it's all right, but you sometimes can't get the maximum score
15:36:10 <Brianetta> and sometimes you start with amine or two right there
15:36:14 <Brianetta> that involves a guess
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15:36:19 <Brianetta> and frequently, losing the game
15:36:28 <A_Person> I always thought that was a matter of hitting one and refreshing every time notihng came up
15:36:38 <planetmaker> the unsolvable last tiles are nasty with minesweeper :)
15:37:13 <Brianetta> log in as guest if you need to
15:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, those are why i stopped playing minesweeper
15:37:53 <Brianetta> Most versions of minesweeper cheat on the first click
15:38:16 <Brianetta> With 90% mines in Windows minesweeper, you never hit one on the first click
15:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: i can place 19 numbers before i get significantly stuck, in the sudoku
15:39:10 <Brianetta> Eddi: Coincidewntally, I have 19 placed
15:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> most of them in the lower part
15:41:08 <Brianetta> 5s and 9s being pests
15:44:28 * Brianetta is on the phone trying to converse while analysing
15:46:15 <A_Person> The number of towns a map has remains constant throughout the game, right?
15:46:52 <A_Person> Sorry, I'm trying a bit of play again
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15:47:31 <Brianetta> you fibber, HerzogDeXtEr
15:48:00 <DJNekkid> is it possible to have different length, same ID vehicles in a articulated consist? for example 1st part is 8/8ths, 2nd is 4/8ths, and 3rd part is 6/8ths?
15:48:04 <Brianetta> More like mutual encouragement
15:48:14 <DJNekkid> i.e. the CB is on a sprite basis?
15:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> DJNekkid: i believe it is possible
15:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. in the DBSetXL, the ET 87 (i think), has a long "locomotive", a short "wagon" and a long "wagon", where both wagons are of the same vehicle type. i don't see a reason why that shouldn't be possible in an articulated consist
15:51:32 <A_Person> I better write this up before I forget forever, wiki mentions the configure patches/vehicles service interval settings should be adjustable in increments of 5 and 10, but it's really 15 in 6.3
15:52:42 * Brianetta slaps A_Person with an addiator
15:52:42 <A_Person> increments of 5 and/or 10
15:54:06 <DJNekkid> Eddi|zuHause: it were possible :)
15:54:41 <planetmaker> {15} != {5,10}, if you're talking about sets :P
15:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> 10 and 5 would be 105
15:55:30 <A_Person> i'm not talkikng about digits or sums
15:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 and 10 would be 510
15:56:04 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: 2 and 2 is 4
15:56:16 <A_Person> wiki mentions 10 or 5 with ctrl, game version 6.3 does it with 15
15:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also no game version 6.3
15:56:33 <A_Person> not exactly nice for % I think
15:56:39 <planetmaker> 2+2 = 1 on on the ring of {0,1,2} :)
15:56:54 <A_Person> That a better version?
15:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> A_Person: the interval for changing is dependent on the minimum/maximum range for the setting, it is automatically calculated
15:58:05 <A_Person> I hope putting signals on a rail track will affect the ability of roads o be built on it
15:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> A_Person: plus, you can click on the number and enter one manually
15:58:32 <A_Person> Well, it didn't change when I switched to %
15:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that always was there :p
15:59:01 <A_Person> I'll have to memorise that
15:59:18 <A_Person> I don't go randomly clicking at numbers by habbit, heh
16:01:46 <A_Person> woot, cool, signal track blocks road
16:04:16 <Brianetta> I'm having trouble reconstructing what I just did
16:04:20 <Brianetta> but I'm sure it was right
16:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i just found the 22nd, and that'll get me a good part forward
16:05:04 <Brianetta> oh yeah, that's right
16:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and those pesky 5/9s are gone ;)
16:06:14 <Brianetta> I still have two unresolved at the bottom
16:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> at the right? i solved them first
16:06:43 <Brianetta> you found a different opening
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16:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but it's not trivial to find ;)
16:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm too distracted now ;)
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16:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the rest is easy now
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16:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> means roughly an hour
16:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> can i tell you my opening now?
16:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what i did: in the top right field
16:17:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there are 2,5,7 and a filled in 8
16:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> then there are 3 options for the 4
16:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but only 2 can be valid, because the 4's form a cycle
16:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so the 9 is the only option left for the bottom left cell
16:18:05 <Brianetta> mine was about the 1
16:18:25 <Brianetta> It resolved as a 1 regardless of the 5 and 9 situation
16:18:54 <Brianetta> no matter which way around I looked at the possibilities, it was always a 1
16:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> see, i didn't touch the 5's at all ;)
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17:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> is that part of this reverse psychology campaign?
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19:19:18 <A_Person> Glah, I'm taking so long to figure out what the max load a Kirby Paul Tank can pull at full speed is. Cursed distractions
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19:31:00 <Muxy> is there some people here that enjoy hosting OpenTTD server ?
19:31:43 <Muxy> and also in dedicated mode
19:33:59 * Rubidium wonders what enjoying hosting openttd servers actually mean
19:34:19 <Rubidium> like having (on average) 0.5 players connected to your server is enjoyable?
19:36:23 <Vikthor> For me playing with other on server I host
19:37:52 <frosch123> Vikthor: !password is the correct command here
19:38:04 <Vikthor> though I dont't host any just now because I don't have any machine available, but that will change(soon, I hope)
19:38:49 <AmmIer> looking for someone hosting our game
19:38:50 <Vikthor> frosch123: It would be if my desire was to be kicked, in fact I was trying to find out adress of Tycoonez svn
19:39:17 <Muxy> about those who host ottd dedicated server, do you have, somtimes players that creat company and leave without building anything ?
19:40:41 <frosch123> Muxy: Some days ago someone (maybe Ammler) said wrt that topic, that he always joins by creating a company, so he can immediatelly start when he likes the map.
19:41:11 <AmmIer> maybe I am not the only one :-)
19:42:05 <AmmIer> but servers without admins sucks anyway.
19:42:15 <Prof_Frink> Ammler: You seem to be 'ammier than usual.
19:42:17 <frosch123> AmmIer: Did you had a discussion with In ?
19:42:22 <Muxy> I talk about people who host server not playing ottd
19:42:26 <AmmIer> and damin could just use reset_company.
19:42:41 <AmmIer> frosch123: I "disabled" highlight :-)
19:43:14 * AmmIer maybe not everyone has same font then me ;-)
19:43:17 <Muxy> what do u think of people, instead of using the "watch game", creates a company and leave immediatly (after watching the game)
19:43:56 <glx> Muxy: just post your patch somewhere :)
19:43:58 <Prof_Frink> AmmIer: Even if they do, <tab> knows.
19:44:13 <Muxy> i open a thread about that subject in the tt forum
19:44:26 <AmmIer> those are highlights from bot, he doesn't know ;-)
19:44:45 <Muxy> no in the sugestion section
19:45:29 <glx> you didn't post the patch
19:45:53 <glx> most server admins compile their server
19:46:03 <Muxy> not yet, i just want to have some remarks from admin servers
19:47:15 <AmmIer> there is already a patch for...
19:47:46 <Muxy> patch ? written by who ?
19:49:00 <AmmIer> hmm, some days ago, someone else (or was that you?) spoke already about that topic.
19:49:49 <Muxy> yes it's me, but before publishing the patch i would like to have comments about this. if it's usefull or not at all
19:51:43 <Muxy> should i post this thread in the dev section ?
19:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically you want an "autoclean empty" feature?
19:52:38 <Muxy> no i dont want, i have made it, but i'd like to know if admin would like it or not
19:53:05 <Muxy> that' s why i opened a thread in the suggest section
19:53:12 <glx> Muxy: I think you'll get more comment for a patch in dev section, than for a idea in suggestions section
19:53:19 <Vikthor> Muxy: Admins do not matter that much, it's developers who decide
19:53:47 * glx rarely looks in suggestions (too much garbage)
19:54:07 <Muxy> yeap but dev will decide regarding the thread. if admin will like or not.
19:54:07 <Vikthor> And they wont't decide without seeing the patch
19:54:35 <Muxy> yeap but before publishing we can discuss about the function
19:54:49 <Muxy> then i will publish the patch
19:55:06 <Muxy> the dev will decide to include in the code
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19:55:56 <planetmaker> Muxy: it's far more fruitful to discuss an existing patch which people can try. All else is nearly futile
19:56:35 <Muxy> ok in the thread i publish that u can test it on my servers... just for looking...
19:58:01 <Muxy> but as mention someone, that most admin recompile their server, i will publish the patch, but where ? dev forum or bugs.openttd.org ?
19:59:12 <Muxy> but before this, should i add some code in order use a new variable from the cfg file ?
19:59:36 <planetmaker> dev forum is a good choice for publishing patches, if you want community attention
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19:59:53 <planetmaker> bugs.openttd, if you are sure it's trunk worthy and want dev attention :)
20:00:44 <Brianetta> Is "not having one's patch included" a bug?
20:01:12 <planetmaker> a buggy description :P
20:01:37 <glx> feature requests are bugs too
20:02:02 <planetmaker> yeah. Right. Those features are improperly implemented :P
20:02:06 <Muxy> ok, i will start in the dev forum, then i will have some admin comments, then when it will be beautifull i will send it to trunk... sounds ok ?
20:02:43 <planetmaker> I doubt the latter - but substitute that by "post at bugs.open...." is ok :)
20:03:11 <planetmaker> but if glx likes it, he might send it to trunk :)
20:03:29 <Muxy> yes of course. i will open a task...
20:03:55 <Muxy> my first goal is to have admin attention...
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21:21:15 <A_Person> 7,6 trains/month. Hmmm
21:36:43 <Zuu> Muxy: Don't have to high expectations about fast trunk include. A 1-liner patch I made took 10 days on flyspray before it got included. I have a longer patch that is mostly ready but I'm working on a document that will help the person who kindly will spend some of his (or her) time to understand what I have done.
21:38:18 <ln> Muxy: a 10-line patch takes about 4 months to get included.
21:38:56 <Prof_Frink> Unless you sleep with one of the devs.
21:40:11 <vvv444> ln: wow, is it a general practice? Does it regards only future patches or even code beautification ones?
21:40:35 <Zuu> WidgetFocus10.patch is 672 lines :/
21:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had patches included within 1 day
21:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> others took almost a year
21:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and again others are still pending... of some sort
21:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> inbetween there, practically everything is possible
21:42:36 <Zuu> Basically a stochastic process :)
21:44:43 <Sacro> I had a patch included before I wrote it D:
21:44:48 * Sacro glares at TrueBrain for that one
21:45:17 <Prof_Frink> I had a patch included despite having never written one.
21:45:40 <vvv444> Probably it depends mostly on the patch characteristics, doesn't it? If the patch implements disputable functionality it will be pending for long time.
21:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally itching in my fingers to start a shunting patch, but i know i could never finish it...
21:46:09 <Sacro> unless you are HackyKid *coughs*
21:46:12 <vvv444> Or if the patch code isn't perfectly debugged/styled etc
21:46:19 <Sacro> unless you are HackyKid *coughs*
21:46:37 <Zuu> vvv444: Also quite a lot on the work load of the devs of the area of the patch I would say.
21:46:57 <Prof_Frink> IIRC the "Global population" thingy is my fault.
21:48:00 <vvv444> Zuu: Reasonable. Btw, how do they track issues @ bugs.openttd.org? When one opens new issue the admins notified?
21:48:03 <ln> vvv444: disputable functionality will never be included, trivial 5-line patches maybe within 6 months.
21:48:32 <Zuu> Prof_Frink: Right in the way for a filter dialog of that list :p hehe - but will take long before that happen since first some kind of enhancement of query dialogs need to hit trunk.
21:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> global population is useless... i want to know number of towns...
21:49:56 <vvv444> ln: Is it just because the devs have no time? Or it's for polotical reasons? i.e. it's difficult to persuade them?
21:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's because the moon is not properly aligned with jupiter yet
21:51:15 * vvv444 going to debug the jupiter issue...
21:51:47 <ln> vvv444: mostly because they don't have time to review patches. not uncommon among open source projects.
21:52:39 <vvv444> Yeah, of course. I would like to implement like hundred new features myself but totally have no time :(
21:52:43 * Prof_Frink makes a uranus joke
21:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they renamed it to urectum, remember?
21:54:17 <Nite_Owl> Old joke - What is the similarity between Star Trek and Toilet Paper ?
21:54:26 <vvv444> On other hand I think if I want to try implementing patches at all. If my patches never find their way to trunk because the devs have no time to review these, not worthy the effort.
21:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if you surprise people with a really genious feature, everything can happen ;)
21:55:42 <Zuu> Coding for other projects than only your own helps increasing your coding abilities.
21:55:52 <Nite_Owl> Both circle Uranus searching for Klingons
21:56:05 <vvv444> Eddi: Well, I'm not that self confident
21:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like some people show up with a perfectly finalized PBS implementation ;)
21:56:17 <ln> vvv444: you can try, but just don't be surprised and depressed when your patches do not get to trunk.
21:56:43 <vvv444> Zuu: I have enough projects to code at work... :(
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22:19:09 <Brianetta> Nite_Owl: "What is the similarity between X and Y?" is better put as "What do X and Y have in common?"
22:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's even funny...
22:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> must be a foreign language thing
22:21:02 <Nite_Owl> Brianetta: True - but that is the way I remembered the joke - humor is subjective
22:24:56 <Brianetta> You remembered it as a "What's the difference between" by mistake?
22:27:44 <Nite_Owl> I am confused - I wrote similarity did I not
22:28:09 <Brianetta> Yes; wrecking the grammar in the process (:
22:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> # Dra Chanasan mat dam Kantrabaß, saßan af da Straßa and arzahltan sach was, da kam da Palaza, na was as dann das, dra Chanasan mat dam Kantrabaß
22:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> # Drö Chönösön möt döm Köntröböß, sößön öf dö Strößö önd örzöhltön söch wös, dö köm dö Pölözö, nö wös ös dönn dös, drö Chönösön möt döm Köntröböß
22:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> # Dri Chinisin mit dim Kintribiß, sißin if di Strißi ind irzihltin sich wis, di kim di Pilizi, ni wis is dinn dis, dri Chinisin mit dim Kintribiß
22:30:32 <Nite_Owl> Yes - the grammar may not have been perfect but as a joke it does not necessarily have to be. Jokes are generally given to colloquialisms.
22:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which... do the english people have a similar song?
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23:00:45 *** vvv444 is now known as vvv444|away
23:19:04 <ln> vvv444|away: no away nicks, please.
23:27:45 * Eddi|zuHause is so glad that he does not have an away nick
23:27:46 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I have not seen Tiberius.
23:28:50 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: '!password' is not a valid nick.
23:28:58 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 6 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Bjarni> he has big pixels
23:29:12 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I have not seen DorpsGek.
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23:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so much for a self-aware AI :p
23:29:53 <planetmaker> no mirror present :P
23:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he scanned it :p
23:30:48 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: CIA-1 was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 9 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14478 /branches/noai/ (67 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14450:14477
23:31:02 <planetmaker> ok, he knows at least his mates.
23:31:28 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I have not seen aronal.
23:31:33 <ln> omg, Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2 is already at 5 episodes.
23:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there was no episode this week
23:34:12 *** glx|away is now known as glx
23:34:46 <ln> ok, i only remembered about the whole series 5 minutes ago.
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