IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-22
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00:14:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 1 hour, 43 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Zuu> ... and is half of the program name..
00:26:08 <FauxFaux> Hmm, can't register on the bug-tracker, it claims it can't send me a verification e-mail, with no further details given?
00:26:23 <TrueBrain> Special FauxFaux protection ;)
00:26:35 <FauxFaux> "Cannot send your code, please try again later."
00:27:51 <TrueBrain> can you hit that button again please
00:28:30 <FauxFaux> Completely unexpected exception: There was a problem reading line 1 of an SMTP response. The response so far was:<br />[]. It appears the connection has died without saying goodbye to us! Too many emails in one go perhaps? (fsockopen: #0)
00:28:35 <FauxFaux> This should never happend, please inform Flyspray Developers
00:28:42 <TrueBrain> yeah, I aborted you :p
00:30:06 <TrueBrain> grr, the system is annoying me
00:30:26 <FauxFaux> It's my mail-server at the other end, it's not something wrong with that, is it? Machine was rebooted earlier, but I've been getting spam.
00:30:57 <TrueBrain> something is claiming a port, and not releasing it
00:31:03 <TrueBrain> so I can't get the IP reconfiguring in ..
00:32:57 <TrueBrain> yw, and tnx for reporting :)
00:33:07 <FauxFaux> I'd've filed a bug, but.. :)
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00:33:51 <TrueBrain> many banned people in this channel
00:33:55 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -b *!*@castor.utu.fi
00:34:52 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: well, it is a bad thing you didn't already had ana ccount ;)
00:35:23 <TrueBrain> welcome Eddi|zuHause
01:14:37 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14127 /trunk/src/waypoint_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): Give the the player's colour to the waypoint window been shown
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08:38:09 <CommanderZ> What time do you people have? I have 10:37 (GMT +1) :)
08:38:36 <peter1138> Your clock is wrong, then.
08:38:40 <Celestar> 1037, and it's GMT+2, CommanderZ
08:38:49 <peter1138> It is 09:37 in GMT+1.
08:41:18 <Celestar> peter1138: there's apparently only one big bug remaining in cargodest ;D
08:41:55 <Celestar> CommanderZ: you read the wrong line.
08:42:15 <Celestar> That's about the most crappy map I've even seen
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08:42:48 <Rubidium> that map disregards DST
08:43:09 <Celestar> Rubidium: not it doesn't. the yellow labels indicates DST
08:43:29 <Celestar> it's crappy nonetheless :P
08:43:40 <Rubidium> well, it doesn't make it very clear that 09:42 isn't GMT
08:43:52 * Rubidium prefers to take the time in Iceland as GMT
08:44:05 <Celestar> bah. our 8192CPU monster is down again
08:44:14 <Celestar> crappy crappy crappy SGI system
08:44:25 <Celestar> I've _never_ seen a system with that much downtime
08:45:15 <Rubidium> something with "the sum total is more than the sum of it's parts"?
08:45:34 <Celestar> but close to 10% downtime is really insane
08:47:06 * Rubidium calls that an achievement
08:47:21 <Rubidium> though SF is good in it too
08:47:28 <Celestar> er guys, I'm just reading the coding guidelines ...
08:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't tell what's going through my mind right now :ü
08:48:41 <Celestar> what's the POINT of it?
08:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> the routing system doesn't know the concept of "lines" <- i think it needs to
08:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i have two lines
08:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> people going from A to F should stay in the vehicle, not switch at C and E
08:50:19 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you can/will be able to change that.
08:50:34 <Celestar> peter1138: so why is the example there? :P
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08:50:39 <peter1138> It's just indicating where to put the iterator declaration.
08:50:52 <extspotter> hey, where can I find the suburban housing V0.11?
08:50:59 <Celestar> * Better: * The used value of foo is calculated outside the loop.
08:51:13 <extspotter> I want sure whether the suburban renewal on grf was the same thing
08:51:20 <Celestar> it not only has a detriminal effect on readability, it's also factually wrong
08:51:49 <peter1138> Depends how much you trust your compiler to optimise.
08:51:54 <Celestar> "Better" is not faster than "Unoptimized Code"
08:52:19 <Celestar> peter1138: any decent compiler moves loop invariants. It's the most basic optimization technique there is
08:52:48 <Celestar> gcc (and others) can even move loop-invariant switches out.
08:53:04 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: try something for me please.
08:53:09 <peter1138> What about when not optimizing (full debug build)
08:53:29 <peter1138> Okay, so it doesn't really matter, but it's harder to debug if everything's slower...
08:53:35 <Ammler> heh, our credits page is #1 :-)
08:54:04 <extspotter> so it was the urban renewal set
08:54:05 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: go to routing.cpp:252 and change the "25" to "0".
08:54:06 <peter1138> Also, we have ancient gcc for MorphOS, and something crazy for OS2 ;)
08:54:16 <extspotter> I wasnt sure whether it was a separate one
08:54:30 <Celestar> Ammler: so can we declare the cargodest test as a success?
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08:54:47 <Celestar> peter1138: gcc 2.95.3 does move loop invariants
08:54:54 <Ammler> Celestar: from view of MP stability, of course
08:55:23 <peter1138> if (value_to_check == (foo(baz) * 4) % 5 + 6) DoSomething();
08:55:25 <Celestar> Ammler: I'd say apart from the removed-station-problem
08:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need to update first... you said there were savegame compatibility issues?
08:56:46 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: with trunk only afaik. And you don't need to update (=
08:57:12 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you don't have stopover_penalty yet?
08:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my line 252 does not have a 25 ;)
08:57:21 <Ammler> Celestar: I miss something to "push" player to use different drops, but that might be v2 :-)
08:57:28 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: search for "stopover_penalty"
08:57:47 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: hm .. then you're stuck :P
08:58:04 <peter1138> where do i read about how to figgure out if a client socket is still connected? 09:55 | petererer (+ei) | 5:##c (+Rcnt) |
08:58:23 <Ammler> at least, for cargo, we would not need to change our gameplay
08:58:35 <Ammler> you could still unload the whole map on same place...
08:58:45 <peter1138> Ammler... just TURN OFF destinations...
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08:59:18 <Ammler> peter1138: that's the point, you do not need to turn it off :-)
08:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> added 55 changesets with 206 changes to 108 files
08:59:41 <Ammler> if you have only one drop for a cargo type, everything will go there...
08:59:58 <peter1138> It's called a destination.
09:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> merging src/timetable_cmd.cpp -- warning: conflicts during merge.
09:01:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you don't have a clean checkout, have you? :P
09:02:06 <Celestar> Ammler: you can still unload the whole map on a single place yes.
09:02:16 <Celestar> Ammler: changing that is not for version1
09:02:41 <Celestar> because changing that involves mangling the cargo generation system
09:02:51 <Celestar> and that's something completely different
09:03:09 <Celestar> it will happen at some point, but not now. the cargodest "patch" is already huge enough
09:03:16 <Celestar> much larger than I would like it to be
09:04:40 <Celestar> Rubidium: all private members should be preceded with m_ right?
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09:07:19 <Ammler> yeah, it is cool anyway, and you can safe clicking for transfer orders :-)
09:08:03 <Ammler> so I would use the patch also with only one "destination" :-)
09:08:11 <peter1138> Remind me what happens if two routes happen to cost nearly the same...
09:08:35 <Celestar> peter1138: everything goes via the cheaper route
09:08:48 <Celestar> route-load-balancing is version two
09:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure of that ;)
09:17:48 <Ammler> he, my FF crashes if I try to visit leaseweb ("powered by" link)
09:19:00 <Ammler> the homepage works if I viist without affiliate var
09:19:51 <Rubidium> Celestar: no, they should be refered to by this->
09:20:07 <Celestar> Rubidium: just because the coding guidelines say so (=
09:21:22 <Rubidium> then someone updated it incorrectly
09:21:31 <Rubidium> and by the looks of it someone anonymous
09:22:11 <Celestar> so, what do I need to do to issue the "stopall" command?
09:22:27 <Rubidium> open the console and type it?
09:23:05 <Celestar> hm .. no, it needs debug
09:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> impressive, the savegame actually loaded :p
09:27:42 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: there won't be any change
09:28:10 <Kloopy> Treeview was a clever idea :)
09:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what is that stopover_penalty supposed to do? there's a distinct lack of comment what "stopover" means ;)
09:36:55 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: afaik it has a clear meaning "Zwischenhalt" in German
09:37:18 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the higher the value, the more cargo tends to use expresses
09:37:50 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you could, of course, set it to -10 and see what happens (=
09:38:14 <Celestar> no you can't, it's an uint. change it to an int (=
09:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, yeah. but the intermediate routes tend to add up to a longer (air-) distance anyway
09:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yapf used a penalty of 100 for a base tile, maybe the route "pathfinding" should do the same?
09:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with my network is, people from A to F should use the "longer" C-D-E route, because they can stay in the vehicle. people from B should of course use the "short" C-E route
09:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically, once people are in a vehicle, they should get an additional penalty for leaving the vehicle
09:43:52 <Rubidium> negative penalties in a pathfinder? doesn't that cause loops?
09:48:06 <Brianetta> I got my meme wrong )-:
09:53:40 <Celestar> Ammler: I apparently have a fix for the "anywhere" cargo
09:54:13 <Ammler> sounds nice, do you like us to test it?
09:54:28 <Ammler> (I mean, do I need to update the server...) :-)
09:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a map overlay that shows which houses are not covered by a station yet...
09:56:00 <Celestar> Ammler: not yet, I'm testing it, and I want the "deleted station" problemm fixed as well
09:58:02 <Celestar> hm .. I want a gdb interface for bim (=
10:04:16 <Celestar> there's summin wrong in the loadmap
10:19:49 <peter1138> Good for performance :)
10:20:02 <Celestar> peter1138: only called in ~Station() but anyway
10:20:30 <Celestar> it sucks nonetheless
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10:29:14 <TrueBrain> Hi all :) The wiki goes bye-bye for a few minute up to an hour (Depending on your DNS cache)
10:30:19 <TrueBrain> I thought, you guys are so used to it :p
10:30:35 <TrueBrain> Yorick: you are applying for most annoying person of the day, you do realise that, right? :)
10:31:17 <Yorick> I just said it was still up...
10:31:26 <Forked> I welcome any downtime that enables a better future
10:32:17 <TrueBrain> Fun fact is: everyone who just looked
10:32:22 <TrueBrain> won't be able to for the next hour :p
10:33:41 * Celestar didn't look, he edited :P
10:35:03 <dih> TrueBrain: "of the day" that is very gracious ;-)
10:40:52 * Celestar wonders whether to commit the graphviz interface to the route network
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10:46:43 <Celestar> hm .. a 200 vehicle game with debug 3 is close to impossible
10:48:48 <Celestar> 17 different signal states on that one signal?
10:49:26 <Celestar> plus 2 additional ones
10:50:09 <fjb> Yeah, the Eastern German government didn't like religions. So the people needed alternative christmas trees.
10:50:43 * Celestar imagines approaching such a signal at 160km/h and then getting out a 35-page manual what to do with the displayed thingy
10:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you can only drive such lines when you have knowledge of them
10:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the signals don't change over night :p
10:52:09 <eQualizer> Wiki doesn't work. :(
10:52:18 <Celestar> Red, Yellow, Green + Speed Limit
10:52:23 <eQualizer> OpenTTD wiki I mean.
10:53:20 <Celestar> eQualizer: DNS updates ..
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10:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yeah, but they are basically only replacing the signals when they completely renew the station
10:55:20 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: not only the station
10:55:24 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: mostly the whole line
10:55:43 <Celestar> especially when they upgrade to LZB/ETCS
10:55:59 <Celestar> Nuremburg-Erfurt won't get any signals at all apparently
10:56:28 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
10:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they rebuilt the station entrance in Halle from Erfurt (old line)
10:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there they placed the new signals
10:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but not on the rest of the line, only until the place where they split off the SFS
10:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen lines where they still use H/V (Light-) Signals
11:02:40 <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium: I require your expertise (=
11:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> all the speed limit stuff probably won't matter in OpenTTD context
11:04:28 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: at least as long as there is not track decay :)
11:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, mostly you would need a way to define the branching side of a switch
11:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> those are usually the ones causing speed limits
11:05:52 <Celestar> something between 40km/h and 220km/h
11:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter is very rare :p
11:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and extremely expensive
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11:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they have fast switches in Bitterfeld
11:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like openttdcoop :p
11:13:49 <Celestar> EIGHT motors for a single switch :o
11:14:01 <Noldo> how important is to to show lot's of cargo icons?
11:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the cargo icons should have a logarithmic scale
11:15:29 <ln> that reminds me... has anyone fixed the orders of magnitude in e.g. how much water a water truck or wagon can carry?
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11:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: what needs "fixing" there?
11:17:40 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: wasn't the capacity of a water wagon something like 2500 litres? which isn't really realistic, is it?
11:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it was always x*1000 litres
11:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> at least i think so... i have never played tropic extensively, but why would they use a different factor for water than for oil?
11:20:25 <ln> peter1138: so a water wagon can carry 65,535,000 litres of water? cool.
11:20:42 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it was *100 in TTD.
11:21:15 <peter1138> But it's been *1000 in OpenTTD since before I started.
11:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i don't remember that...
11:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> has it been different in TTO?
11:22:04 <peter1138> It's listed under generalfixes for TTDPatch.
11:23:01 <peter1138> Celestar, maybe we should put the old 4095 limitation back in... ;)
11:23:11 <Celestar> peter1138: I still need your expertise (=
11:23:15 <Celestar> peter1138: you got a few minutes?
11:24:53 <peter1138> Hmm, yes... LoadUnloadStation :o
11:25:35 <Celestar> peter1138: it's called every tick for every station
11:26:41 <Celestar> the problem is... we're rebuilding the cargo_left map every tick for every station. It's kinda stupid
11:26:56 <Celestar> maybe we should cache this either in the station struct or in the Routing system.
11:27:20 <peter1138> So store it in the station.
11:27:36 <peter1138> Assuming it's not big :)
11:28:03 <peter1138> Or do it another way
11:28:45 <peter1138> It might do if you're caching it, I don't know.
11:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so just add it to the station struct without saving?
11:29:42 <Celestar> hm the nexthop can be stored until the routing system is modified.
11:30:54 <Celestar> I just won't manage to do it today
11:37:25 <Celestar> all in all, it's working well :P
11:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> btw... for different railtypes (with speed limit etc.), there should be a flag to forbid level crossings (for high speed rails)
11:46:29 *** Yorick is now known as Guest3002
11:48:47 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: and for maglevs for example (=
11:51:27 <TrueBrain> whoho! I can produce MSVC binaries, linux binaries, and source/doc bundles :) How cool is that! :p
11:52:11 <Forked> are you asking a fellow geek or a cheerleader? :p
11:55:02 <Ammler> Yorick: new winbin for cargo dest needed ;-)
11:55:15 <Yorick> Ammler: truebrain can compile, I see
11:55:42 <TrueBrain> in fact, I can do a lot of things
11:55:45 <TrueBrain> I can also dance around
11:55:55 <Ammler> nah, that need applying patch and such, dunno, if he can
11:56:00 <Ammler> but I know, you can ;-)
11:56:07 <Yorick> but my linker fails...
11:57:01 <Ammler> TrueBrain: compile farm for hg repos?
11:57:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: compile farm not for public (yet) :p
11:57:46 <TrueBrain> it is fulltime busy doing test-runs :)
11:57:58 <TrueBrain> but I will add hg support :)
11:59:37 <TrueBrain> Ammler: you have a hg url for me?
11:59:41 <TrueBrain> then I hav esomething to testrun
11:59:58 <Ammler> TrueBrain: cargo dest from celestart
12:00:11 <TrueBrain> (yes, I am one lazy person)
12:00:35 <Yorick> it is your own repo...
12:00:45 <Ammler> TrueBrain: which rev will it show?
12:00:55 <TrueBrain> Ammler: what ever I defined it to :p
12:01:05 <Ammler> r14127M would be nice then :-)
12:01:45 <Ammler> or do you add something "-branch"?
12:03:13 <TrueBrain> checkout take sforever .... omg ..
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12:04:23 <Ammler> does your farm checkout newly everytime?
12:04:41 <TrueBrain> while, there is no such thing as 'every time' or how ever you want to define it :)
12:04:49 <TrueBrain> the new compile-farm is 'job' based
12:04:57 <TrueBrain> you create a job, in this case, the url above
12:05:05 <TrueBrain> then you can create procs inside a job, which define the targets you want
12:05:16 <Ammler> well, I thought about a requlary thing like noAI
12:05:17 <TrueBrain> so upon job creation, what ever you defined as source, is used
12:05:22 * orudge gives the compile farm the job of working out this week's lottery numbers
12:05:33 <TrueBrain> will create a new job every night Ammler
12:05:36 <TrueBrain> and therefor always the latest :p
12:07:08 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: so you can supply us with cargodest nightlies? Or am I completely off the track?
12:07:19 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in theory, the system can handle that
12:07:34 <planetmaker> ok, are you willing to do in reality? :)
12:07:55 <TrueBrain> I only create services
12:08:36 * Celestar goes fixing the last performance issue in cargodest :P
12:09:06 <TrueBrain> added 19676 changesets with 43746 changes to 1572 files <- LOL!
12:09:10 <peter1138> TrueBrain, how do we get stuff onto developers/
12:09:12 <TrueBrain> that explains why cargodest is so slow :p
12:09:46 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and then you have to be a bit more specific on what you want :)
12:09:47 <peter1138> But I see the directories are empty, it's all in .hg.
12:09:53 <TrueBrain> as your question is a bit too general ;)
12:10:46 <Celestar> TrueBrain: it's not slow
12:10:55 <TrueBrain> Celestar: the hg checkout, is
12:11:00 <Celestar> TrueBrain: oh that ... yes (=
12:11:03 <TrueBrain> peter1138: what directories? Sorry, I try to understand you ...
12:11:32 <peter1138> TrueBrain, my hg repos have everything alongside the .hg directory, not hidden underneath it, so I'm wondering what's different.
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12:12:18 <TrueBrain> sorry, I really fail ... I feel stupid :(
12:12:34 <TrueBrain> what hg repos, alongside how, hidden underneath what?
12:12:39 <TrueBrain> different with who?
12:13:25 <peter1138> You have noai.hg/.hg
12:13:40 <peter1138> I have noai.hg/.hg along with noai.hg/Makefile, noai.hg/etcetc
12:14:10 <TrueBrain> on the server only the .hg is published
12:14:15 <TrueBrain> (there is no checkout)
12:14:19 <rortom> D: RoR webserver down D:
12:14:21 <peter1138> But how is that done?
12:14:26 <TrueBrain> peter1138: hg push does that
12:14:44 <TrueBrain> peter1138: when you push something, only the changesets are pushed
12:14:45 <peter1138> You can push to some random path?
12:14:50 <TrueBrain> peter1138: in general, yes
12:15:07 <peter1138> Thought it had to be an existing checkout, heh...
12:15:11 <TrueBrain> normally only you want a checkout to work in :p
12:15:22 <TrueBrain> hg (as git) as decentral
12:15:28 <TrueBrain> so your checkout is as good as a servers one
12:15:34 <TrueBrain> (just you have a working-checkout)
12:15:59 <peter1138> Yeah... I just didn't know how to acheive a repo without the checkout...
12:16:09 <peter1138> guru3, tough, we're forcing you to use it now.
12:16:22 <TrueBrain> peter1138: 'hg push' ;)
12:16:23 <guru3> openttd is moving to git?
12:16:52 <Yorick> I think it is moving to hg
12:16:54 <TrueBrain> we already did, you didn't get the memo?
12:17:28 <guru3> i can barely handle bzr
12:17:36 <guru3> i don't need to learn a 4th revision system
12:17:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: let me try to get the binary from the compile-farm .. (it is in a private VLAN :p)
12:18:14 <TrueBrain> hmm .. it never produced a binary ..
12:18:36 <Celestar> peter1138: any bright ideas on how to handle conditional orders?
12:18:59 <TrueBrain> BSCMAKE: error BK1506 : cannot open file '..\objs\Win32\Release\routing.sbr': No such file or directory
12:19:12 <TrueBrain> never give me again a hg which doesn't compile
12:19:21 <Amixbook> how about that train?
12:19:33 <TrueBrain> c:\openttd\compile\src\routing_classes.h(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp': No such file or directory
12:19:41 <Yorick> TrueBrain: you need boost
12:20:22 <peter1138> Amixbook... what about it?
12:21:20 <Amixbook> peter1138: it looks cool
12:23:26 <TrueBrain> why is boost used? (for what subobject)?
12:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> for the route network graph
12:24:01 <Yorick> TrueBrain: they seem to input the orders into a graph and then pathfind over it
12:24:36 <TrueBrain> well, I ment the other sense of 'why' ;)
12:25:40 <peter1138> Heh, POWERED BY LEASEWEB on everything now :p
12:26:02 <peter1138> At least the DNS changed quickly :)
12:26:10 <Yorick> heh, it is adblocked everywhere now :-)
12:26:26 <Roujin> well, peter is right here to answer your question TrueBrain :P
12:26:27 <TrueBrain> Ammler: well, I hope there are intentions to remove it later on, as I doubt gcc 2.95 (or more specific: morphos) like it currently :p
12:26:47 <Celestar> peter1138: this will be a bit more difficult then I expected it to be
12:26:48 <Yorick> hmm, so that's what self_sent is used for... for private and team chats, it does not contain the sender, but the reciever
12:27:13 <TrueBrain> peter1138: openttd.org is under 1 hour TTL currently ;) So it should be quick :p
12:27:16 <Celestar> TrueBrain: if you come up with the better solution than boost, I'm all ears
12:27:24 <TrueBrain> Celestar: write your own? :)
12:27:31 <Celestar> TrueBrain: what do I gain?
12:27:31 <TrueBrain> Celestar: it depends on what you use of it exactly
12:27:43 <TrueBrain> Celestar: that we can maintain the OSes we currently support? ;)
12:27:48 <Celestar> I could also write my own std::vector, std::list, std::map ...
12:27:58 <Celestar> but I don't consider it prudent to do so
12:27:59 <TrueBrain> okay, this is a conversation I am not having
12:28:06 <TrueBrain> when people start to say stuff like that ..
12:28:17 <Amixbook> so... when is the underground system beeing released?
12:28:19 <Ammler> Yorick: don't visit pages, which has ads you don't like. They have their reasons to show adds...
12:28:29 <Amixbook> or is it with the nightly builds already?
12:28:54 <Yorick> Ammler: I have the right to view whatever elements of a web page I want...
12:28:57 <Celestar> TrueBrain: it's a header-only library
12:29:03 <Amixbook> must be a button changing from upper and underground view then i suppose
12:29:06 <TrueBrain> Celestar: comparing STL to Boost is silly in so many ways
12:29:07 <Yorick> all ad-users seem to react like that
12:29:17 <Ammler> didn't say you aren't allowed, just it IS NOT FAIR.
12:29:20 <TrueBrain> STL comes with the compiler
12:32:02 <Celestar> well, then write an own graph library/system (=
12:32:24 <peter1138> First find out if it is actually a problem :p
12:32:25 <TrueBrain> I am just telling you we won't be able to maintain the current targets if it would be applied to trunk
12:32:45 <TrueBrain> peter1138: last year boost failed completely on morphos, I know first-hand :p
12:33:02 <peter1138> Anyway, who cares about MorphOS? :p
12:33:03 <TrueBrain> but yeah, who knows, maybe they fixed it ;)
12:33:04 <Roujin> Amixbook: there is no ongoing development on that, it would require too much changes.
12:33:20 <TrueBrain> hehe :) peter1138: I am glad you think that way .. means I don't have to do OSX binaries ;)
12:33:25 <Roujin> where'd you get that idea anyway?
12:33:29 <TrueBrain> (I mean, who cares about OSX :p Hehehe :))
12:33:52 <Celestar> it works nicely on OSX
12:34:03 <TrueBrain> I was not talking about cargodest
12:34:18 <planetmaker> holds true for OpenTTD in general
12:35:33 <Amixbook> i saw it on tt forums
12:35:37 <Celestar> hm .. st->cargo_left[x] would need to be modified each time st->goods[x].cargo is modified :S
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12:37:58 <Celestar> you know that gcc 4 is available for Morphos, right?
12:38:05 <Roujin> Amixbook: In the OpenTTD section? well maybe as a suggestion, or in an old thread..
12:38:06 <TrueBrain> Celestar: it is not, so we are told
12:38:46 <Roujin> Amixbook: there are other interesting things in development atm though ;)
12:38:48 <TrueBrain> Celestar: talk to tokai|ni
12:39:07 <peter1138> Don't talk to tokai, because he's still angsty that we switched to C++...
12:39:18 <Amixbook> Roujin: hehe.. yea.. but i saw it. someone here mentioned it
12:39:20 <TrueBrain> peter1138: hehe :) I am too, doesn't mean we don't help out :)
12:39:22 <Amixbook> i just clicked on it
12:39:35 <Yorick> I have not ever seen him talking
12:39:38 <Celestar> Roujin: what interesting things are in development?? :P
12:40:29 <Roujin> well Celestar, there is this interesting thing named "CargoDest".. ;)
12:40:53 <Celestar> Roujin it still has this fuqqing performance problem
12:41:27 <Celestar> at least for openttdcoop-style stations :P
12:41:33 <Ammler> btw, who doesn't think OpenTTD should not support war ingame?
12:41:36 <Roujin> is it that bad? i didn't encounter it yet..
12:41:49 <Celestar> Ammler: double negation
12:41:50 <Ammler> guys killed around 1M at last coop game
12:41:56 <peter1138> Celestar, did you notice that the cargo_left is populated all the time.
12:42:01 <Amixbook> Ammler: openttd is transport focused
12:42:01 <peter1138> Even when there are no trains waiting to load.
12:42:12 <peter1138> Fixing that may help significantly.
12:42:14 <Celestar> peter1138: there is a "return" in the first line,
12:42:22 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I can't help you at this current moment, I fail to see how to install boost for MSVC, and I don't have the time to figure out :p
12:42:36 <Celestar> peter1138: I've tried this already :(
12:42:38 <TrueBrain> (stupid page boost has ... 'download' is found under 'introduction' :s)
12:42:40 <Ammler> TrueBrain: thank you anyway.. :-)
12:42:52 <peter1138> Oh... well I was looking at trunk ;p
12:42:54 <Yorick> TrueBrain: just extract the graphs into chechout/src/boost
12:42:57 <Brianetta> I demolish a row of houses for a new platform, and it *immediately* throws down a war memorial
12:42:57 <Amixbook> the most annoying thing in openttd or ttd
12:43:15 <TrueBrain> Yorick: that almost made sense .. just I hav eno idea what you are talking about
12:43:25 <Amixbook> they should thank you if you build roads for them
12:43:40 <Amixbook> not just by planting lots of trees
12:44:03 <Yorick> TrueBrain: boost graph is a header-only library, you can just extract into checkoutdir/src/boost/
12:44:05 <Amixbook> it messes the area pretty much up i think
12:44:27 <TrueBrain> Yorick: and that is exactly what is not possible with the compile-farm .. manual intervention :) (the root of all evil)
12:44:47 <Yorick> it is exactly what is needed until boost is going into 3rdparty
12:45:11 <TrueBrain> then I can't help at all :)
12:45:25 <Roujin> Celestar, peter1138: station window needs setting dirty on view change through CTRL-click.
12:45:47 <Yorick> or you should be able to install it, into the include dir
12:46:21 <Roujin> or, rather to say, needs enabling/disabling of the sort buttons _before_ dirty
12:46:59 <Celestar> peter1138'll fix that. I'm off for the rest of the day :P
12:48:05 <TrueBrain> Celestar: I will give the boost-graph part a spin on morphos today
12:48:11 <TrueBrain> see if that part does work
12:48:16 <TrueBrain> I hope so for you guys :)
12:49:10 <TrueBrain> Celestar: it would be rather argogant as the person who knows most about MorphOS tells we shouldn't ;)
12:51:36 <TrueBrain> well, see PM for more blabla about MorphOS
12:51:56 <planetmaker> I'm not readable ;P
12:52:35 <Celestar> but i'm currently busy @ work
12:52:48 <TrueBrain> I understand Celestar :)
12:53:43 <Celestar> it happens once in a while
12:54:26 <Tekky> May I post notifications about new bug reports in #openttd.notice since FlySpray no longer posts them there automatically? Or would I get kicked immediately for talking inside the channel?
12:55:00 <TrueBrain> try talking in that channel :p
12:55:41 <Tekky> you just want me to get kicked :)
12:55:48 <TrueBrain> channel should be moderated
12:56:10 <Roujin> you just aren't able to write anything
12:56:11 <Tekky> ah, it does not even permit me to write anything?
12:57:49 <Progman> Celestar: what about the forum post? *g*
12:59:38 <glx> TrueBrain: maybe you could use a "fake" user always notified by mail about changes in FS
12:59:51 <TrueBrain> glx: how do you mean?
12:59:57 <Amixbook> Kommer: why that nick?
13:00:13 <Amixbook> its coming in norwegian
13:02:31 <glx> TrueBrain: users can be added to notification list for FS tasks, and they get a mail when the task changes
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13:02:53 <Celestar> Progman: i'l do it once the caching system is in place and tested (=
13:03:08 <glx> so DorpsGek could be added to the lists and get a mail, and then report in .notice
13:03:17 <TrueBrain> glx: it doesn't have a mail gateway (yet)
13:04:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, glx, the problem is not really the communication, more the parse from multiline to a single line
13:04:13 <TrueBrain> (the emails are a bit .. well .. weird? :P0
13:05:22 <planetmaker> Amixbook: it's an actual name, you know...
13:05:43 <glx> indeed they are often not very clear (mainly the PM requests, you never know what is requested until you check the task)
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13:06:47 <TrueBrain> glx: so on the old server, we made a (big) script which made it .. more readable
13:06:51 <TrueBrain> but of course it fails in newer version
13:07:00 <TrueBrain> to avoid that, we kind of need a more elegant solution I guess
13:07:10 <TrueBrain> but it just isn't high on the prio list :)
13:07:13 <TrueBrain> glx: that we did last time
13:07:31 <TrueBrain> well, it was never really there
13:07:35 <TrueBrain> but now it really isn't :p
13:09:26 <TrueBrain> glx: what does MSVC need for mercurial and git version detection?
13:10:00 <Yorick> determineversion.vbs should be able to do that
13:10:16 <TrueBrain> doesn't it need an executable?
13:10:39 <Yorick> it needs hg or git.exe yes
13:11:00 <Yorick> just installed somewhere in %PATH%
13:12:37 <TrueBrain> it takes 30 seconds for morphos to compile newgrf.cpp :o :o
13:13:18 <Celestar> you have a Morphos installation?
13:13:36 <peter1138> That NewGRF stuff is rubbish...
13:13:37 <TrueBrain> Celestar: of course, how else you think we produce the binaries every night? :p
13:13:56 <Celestar> TrueBrain: cross-compiling?
13:14:21 <TrueBrain> going to make a native system later this week I hope :)
13:14:58 <orudge> Is it not a lot more efficient just to crosscompile where it is possible though?
13:15:07 <orudge> ie, where the crosscompiler isn't broken or whatever
13:15:33 <TrueBrain> orudge: crosscompiling has its downsides
13:15:43 <TrueBrain> most of all: updates are impossible without contacting someone who has a native install
13:18:10 <peter1138> So can you virtualise OS X?
13:18:18 <TrueBrain> peter1138: currently all attempts failed
13:18:30 <TrueBrain> and both Apple and Microsoft don't reply to our emails :(
13:19:49 <orudge> and I trust the Windows install we have is all genuine and legal? ;)
13:20:16 <TrueBrain> for non-commercial goals, yes
13:21:02 <TrueBrain> so we requested Microsoft for more information about their license, and if we are allowed to use it for OpenTTD .. but of course one big silence is what follows
13:22:17 * peter1138 wonders if the compiler and linker part of it work under wine... ;p
13:22:39 <TrueBrain> I believe it requires .NET 2.0
13:23:11 <TrueBrain> I believe it failed :)
13:23:30 <TrueBrain> dih suggest we have a fundraiser to get 3500 euro for a OSX Server :p
13:24:00 <peter1138> Just get bjarni to compile them..
13:24:03 <Yorick> hmm, my openttd chatwindow has some glitches
13:24:05 <dih> then install vmware and you can install windows in there :-P
13:24:12 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and you hope to get a binary, what, ever month? :)
13:24:35 <TrueBrain> well, just checking :)
13:25:19 <Ammler> #openttdcoop has 3 active members with OSX, maybe someone of them likes to help.... :-)
13:25:44 <peter1138> We'll just drop OS X support. Much easier.
13:26:01 <ln> I was about to suggest the same.
13:26:27 <dih> you do not need to build os x bins to have support for it :-P
13:27:11 <dih> unfor i only have a ppc 12" G4
13:27:23 <TrueBrain> we can colocate that too! :p
13:27:25 <dih> but if there was some intel something you could get from ebay?
13:27:36 <dih> TrueBrain: you cannot build universal builds with that
13:27:41 <ln> dih: what's wrong with G4?
13:27:52 <TrueBrain> that we like G7 more
13:28:09 <ln> dih: huh? you can build universal builds on PPC.
13:28:45 <dih> you need 10.5 or is 10.4 enough for that?
13:29:01 <ln> 10.4 is enough, with recent-enough dev tools.
13:29:05 <TrueBrain> free update for every 10.4 owner
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13:29:29 <dih> but you could get ya hands on any other machine ;-)
13:29:38 <TrueBrain> I have my hands on one now
13:29:39 <ln> dih: in our reality, there's no such thing as 10.4u
13:30:05 <TrueBrain> ln: check the name of your SDK, you will see that it is called 10.4u
13:30:37 <ln> TrueBrain: i know. were we talking about the SDK name then?
13:31:07 <TrueBrain> [15:30] [Ignore] Added ln!* to your ignore list.
13:31:52 <TrueBrain> Yorick: somehow I thought it would be nice to unban him .. but I think that was a bad mistake .. oh well
13:31:57 <ln> Yorick: i was wondering the same.
13:33:55 <TrueBrain> Yorick: what made you use a captical Y? I liked the lowercase more :p
13:34:24 *** Yorick is now known as questionmark
13:34:32 *** questionmark is now known as yorick
13:35:35 <yorick> dih: I can't be on openttd.notice and change my name to something random without using nickserv ;)
13:35:48 <ln> yorick: have i insulted you?
13:35:54 <ln> TrueBrain: have i insulted you?
13:36:03 <dih> 15:35 < ln> TrueBrain: have i insulted you?
13:36:04 <yorick> ln: you only irritated truebrain
13:36:47 <TrueBrain> yorick: +m channels tend to do that
13:37:16 <yorick> ln: that doesn't matter
13:37:54 <yorick> doesn't mean it isn't posible
13:40:23 <ln> so, well, i'd better leave the channel at least until TrueBrain is gone then, because i seem to irritate and insult him just by being here.
13:42:58 <peter1138> -- 138642 Kbytes in 15326 Requests.
13:43:02 <peter1138> That's a bit much :o
13:43:23 <TrueBrain> depends on for what ;)
13:46:32 <TrueBrain> You got to love compilers: /opt/gg/lib/gcc-lib/ppc-morphos/2.95.3/../../../../ppc-morphos/include/boost/iterator/iterator_facade.hpp:535: confused by earlier errors, bailing out
13:47:53 <TrueBrain> /opt/gg/lib/gcc-lib/ppc-morphos/2.95.3/../../../../ppc-morphos/include/boost/iterator/iterator_adaptor.hpp:218: template instanti
13:47:53 <TrueBrain> ation depth exceeds maximum of 17
13:48:05 <TrueBrain> I tihnk it is safe to say gcc 2.95.3 can't handle Boost :)
13:48:08 <TrueBrain> (17 deep?! REALLY?! :p)
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13:49:03 <TrueBrain> on the other hand ...
13:50:02 <TrueBrain> haha :) Insane .. but it is avoidable :p
13:51:23 <TrueBrain> Celestar: it compiled :o :o :o
13:52:11 <TrueBrain> Celestar: config.lib:1094
13:52:27 <TrueBrain> - CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -Wno-strict-prototypes"
13:52:30 <TrueBrain> + CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -Wno-strict-prototypes -ftemplate-depth-99"
13:52:49 <Amixbook> TrueBrain: youve got a morphos machine?
13:53:00 <TrueBrain> Celestar: I am truly and completely suprised, but it managed ... :)
13:55:01 <TrueBrain> but 'file' shows everything okay
13:55:31 <TrueBrain> just that one patch is required
13:55:42 <TrueBrain> (Well, 99 might be a bit too much, but 17+ it needs ...)
13:58:25 <TrueBrain> [14:44] <Yorick> TrueBrain: boost graph is a header-only library, you can just extract into checkoutdir/src/boost/ <- odesn't work, as it uses include <> (always looks in system include dir, never local)
13:58:31 <TrueBrain> and we do not add -L. :p
14:01:02 <Celestar> TrueBrain: we plan to change that and may svn:externalize it
14:01:11 <yorick> doesn't <> just change the search path order?
14:01:17 <TrueBrain> Celestar: that would be a very good idea :)
14:02:13 <Celestar> TrueBrain: I've just not yet found *the* revision
14:03:07 <TrueBrain> are they so different, or?
14:03:32 <Celestar> and I dunno how to use svn:externals in a hg repo :P
14:06:26 <Celestar> TrueBrain: yes. hence I'm waiting with that for a commit (=
14:07:04 <TrueBrain> I unpacked boost in a dir I hope is shared under MSVC .. testing now ...
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14:11:00 <Celestar> you should playtest it (=
14:11:37 <TrueBrain> haven't played OpenTTD in ages
14:11:42 <TrueBrain> MSVC seems to compile
14:15:50 <TrueBrain> [BUNDLE] Creating openttd-cargodest-r14127-win32.zip
14:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, i'm getting stale YAPP reservations...
14:24:26 <Roujin> Eddi|zuHause: with adjacent stations?
14:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> does that have an influence?
14:25:36 <Roujin> well I got stale reservations using adjacent stations
14:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, all stale reservations i noticed were in adjacent stations
14:26:06 <TrueBrain> Celestar: win9x on the other hand does fail: c:/OpenTTD/compile/src/routing.cpp:855: error: template argument 2 is invalid
14:26:42 <Roujin> must be a bug in how YAPP handles stations..
14:27:19 <Roujin> you should report it..
14:27:57 <Roujin> you only just now reminded me of it
14:28:41 <Roujin> but i've no save of it with a clean build.. so you go report it :P
14:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't reproduce it properly
14:32:18 <TrueBrain> win9x, win32, win64
14:33:30 <Celestar> I mean PASTE the line
14:33:41 <TrueBrain> I don't have the source here! Lol :)
14:36:28 <TrueBrain> std::vector<VertexDescriptor> p(num_vertices(RouteNetwork));
14:36:32 <TrueBrain> you made me download it! :p
14:37:21 <Celestar> template argument _TWO_ ?
14:37:34 <TrueBrain> I am not making it up here
14:37:40 <TrueBrain> it is what mingw returned! :)
14:42:54 <Celestar> a Vertex descriptor is an short unsigned int :S
14:44:44 <Celestar> void Routing_t::ComputeRoutes(StationID from, std::vector<VertexDescriptor>& p, std::vector<int>& d) const
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14:45:15 <TrueBrain> I can't help you testing. Maybe glx can, if he can reproduce the problem :)
14:46:12 <glx> I'm busy on determineversion.vbs right now ;)
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14:48:37 <Celestar> glx: on win or on dos?
14:50:13 <glx> win9x = win32 without unicode
14:50:18 <TrueBrain> Celestar: not relaly, but .. :p
14:51:17 <TrueBrain> Celestar: DOS doesn't have multithreading ;) (well, TSR, but that doens't count :p)
14:51:58 <Celestar> TrueBrain: neither has Win9x (= at least not really
14:52:16 <TrueBrain> close enough anyway ;)
14:54:29 <TrueBrain> then why does it fail in the VM here? :p
14:54:43 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what GCC does the VM have?
14:57:11 <TrueBrain> make[1]: stat:texteff.o: Bad file number <- glx?
14:58:05 <glx> sometimes I get sh crashes in configure too
14:58:09 <TrueBrain> then how come glx can compile something that fails when the VM does it ...
14:58:48 <TrueBrain> maybe piping the error-log goes wrong, and the includes aren't find or soemthing
14:59:19 <TrueBrain> we pipe them to two files, which makes it a tiny bit hard to read sometimes
14:59:42 <TrueBrain> or I am just being stupid
14:59:45 <TrueBrain> sorry Celestar, sorry glx
14:59:51 <TrueBrain> I used 'tail' ... but there were more than 10 lines :p
15:00:17 <TrueBrain> that really is a newbie mistake :p
15:00:21 <TrueBrain> it indeed can't find the boost libraries :p
15:01:27 <eQualizer> Is there some nice all-in-one newgrf pack where would be a lot more every kind of vehicles for every climate?
15:15:26 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14128 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix: first run of determineversion.vbs in a fresh clean hg checkout always detected the sources as modified
15:20:35 <Progman> eQualizer: the #openttdcoop newgrf pack
15:26:02 <peter1138> It's now down to 4000 but they don't want to budge :o
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15:27:31 <TrueBrain> peter1138: pdb are always VERY big :p
15:27:51 <glx> depends on what is in them
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15:29:20 <TrueBrain> echo -e "" > test.pdb
15:30:52 <glx> openttd pdb are around 8MB
15:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried 'echo "blah">file' in windows yesterday, and instead of a file with 'blah' i ended up with a file with '"blah"'
15:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, probably for someone who uses the windows console extensively, but it totally caught me off guard :p
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17:13:26 <peter1138> remote: abort: There is no Mercurial repository here (.hg not found)!
17:18:15 <peter1138> What... an extra slash is needed... How... non-standard. Stupid hg.
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17:32:12 <Harteex> hello, does anyone know what to do if you stop getting new things (airports, trains etc)?
17:32:37 <Harteex> I've gotten to the year 2000 without getting monorail or the biggest airport...
17:33:38 <Harteex> 50 years? that'd take a while....
17:34:15 <Harteex> oh and if I save and load, I can build monorail, but I don't have any monorail train to build
17:34:20 <yorick> use fast forward or the date cheat
17:34:36 <yorick> monorail could simply just not be available in 2000 yet
17:34:59 <Harteex> it says you'll get it 1999 in the wiki
17:35:11 <peter1138> The date is randomized.
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17:36:41 <Harteex> but the airport, is this random too or is it a known bug?
17:37:32 <Rubidium> the biggest airport comes in 2002
17:38:12 <Harteex> I was sure it was 2000, ohwell
17:55:20 <Tekky> What should I do when I find a translation error in OpenTTD? Are they to be reported to Flyspray just like any other bug? I see no category for translation errors.
17:56:02 <TinoDidriksen> You could register as a translator and fix it? I believe there's an interface for that somewhere...
17:57:45 <Tekky> It's just a minor bug I found: In the U.S. english version of OpenTTD, coal is measured in "tonnes", although it should be "tons".
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17:59:25 <TinoDidriksen> Depends...if the load is a metric ton, then tonne is correct.
17:59:52 <peter1138> TinoDidriksen, not in American.
18:00:28 <peter1138> american - 44 fixed, 167 changed by WhiteRabbit (211)
18:00:45 <Tekky> TinoDidirksen: In the United States, it is written as "tons".
18:01:19 <TinoDidriksen> No...in American, a metric ton of 1000kg is a "tonne", while a US ton of 900kg or 1008kg is a "ton".
18:01:39 <Harteex> I have found a few errors in the swedish translation, it seems like you're supposed to ask for a translator account. Can anyone here fix an account for me?
18:03:32 <Prof_Frink> TinoDidriksen: In which case, it should really be done in units (metric/imperial/SI) rather than language.
18:04:56 <Tekky> As far as I can tell from wikipedia, in the US, there is a "metric ton", a "short ton" and a "long ton".
18:05:53 <Rubidium> "the metric ton, or tonne, ..." [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton]
18:06:28 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: no need to edit
18:07:07 <Prof_Frink> "the metric tonne, or qweoiru, ..."
18:08:43 <mmagg> Hi guys. I seem to be having trouble using a resolution higher than 2048 pixels wide. Is this a known problem? I can't see it in Flyspray.
18:09:22 <mmagg> 1. Higher resolutions than 1920x1200 are not presented in the GUI
18:09:25 <Belugas> my resolution is 2560*1024, no trouble here
18:09:46 <mmagg> 2. When I type in something bigger, the graphics to the right of the 2048 boundary is flaky
18:10:28 <mmagg> When I zoom, the graphics to the right is not updated
18:10:33 <Tekky> ah, in the US, when you say "ton", you normally refer to a "short ton", which is 900kg. But in the US, the correct spelling is "metric ton" and not "metric tonne".
18:10:35 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Like antiaircraft fire.
18:10:45 <Rubidium> mmagg: > 2048 isn't supported in 0.6.something and lower
18:11:36 <TinoDidriksen> Metric ton is correct spelling, but can also write "tonne" to mean "metric ton". "Metric tonne" is just saying it twice.
18:11:37 <Belugas> can you try nightlies>?
18:11:48 <mmagg> Do they come in debs? (checking...)
18:13:03 <mmagg> Does the trunk generally work?
18:13:10 <mmagg> I can just grab the source
18:14:29 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: Does you last sentence specifically refer to U.S. english or also apply to British english?
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18:14:44 <Rubidium> what more does the page tell you? Especially the part about the revision rXXXX.
18:14:56 <TinoDidriksen> British converted to metric long time ago. Only US (and 2 other tiny places) still have issues.
18:15:06 <Prof_Frink> TinoDidriksen: Pint?
18:15:21 <TinoDidriksen> ...ok, Officially converted to metric long time ago.
18:15:32 <TinoDidriksen> De jure. De facto is still to come.
18:15:45 <Tekky> This wikipedia article:
18:15:45 <Prof_Frink> Ah hell, I've been speeding then.
18:15:56 <Prof_Frink> I've been driving at 30mph, not km/h
18:16:34 <Tekky> This wikipedia article:
18:16:39 <Tekky> In the United States the correct term is metric ton.
18:17:10 <mmagg> Rubidium: Do you want me to send a screenshot or the html or something? The page is basically all waffle, no content
18:17:16 <TinoDidriksen> Is there room in the dialogs for "metric ton" though?
18:17:20 <Sacro> TinoDidriksen: we half converted
18:17:26 <Tekky> This implies that "metric tonne" is incorrect in American english.
18:17:34 <Rubidium> mmagg: make a screenshot
18:17:37 <Sacro> and buys 2x4 planks of wood
18:17:42 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: No, you don't.
18:17:43 <TinoDidriksen> "metric tonne" is never correct. It's either "metric ton" or "tonne".
18:20:02 <Tekky> Tino: Does your last statement refer to American English, British English or both?
18:20:13 <TinoDidriksen> American English.
18:20:36 <TinoDidriksen> In British, they're all a metric ton.
18:20:46 <TinoDidriksen> Only US have different tons.
18:21:10 <TinoDidriksen> Legally, anyways.
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18:23:19 <Tekky> To me, "tonne" looks very British and I find it hard to believe that it is ever used in the US.
18:25:05 <TinoDidriksen> Well, it isn't, except for international trade. All internal stuff happens in pounds and tons (2000 pounds ~ 900kg).
18:25:39 <Rubidium> wasn't that the reason for a couple of derailments?
18:25:45 <TinoDidriksen> But it depends whether OTTD means trains carry a metric ton, or 2000 pounds.
18:26:00 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
18:26:41 <Prof_Frink> Of course, if whatever it's carrying costs £2/kg, both :)
18:28:51 <mmagg> The higher resolution works nicely in the latest nightly. Sweet! (It does not work in the latest stable, 0.6.2)
18:28:53 <Tekky> in the US, when you say "ton", you normally refer to a "short ton" of 900kg. Therefore, I think the best translation would be "ton", even if the correct term is "metric ton" (=1000kg). The translation "tonne" seems completely wrong, as this is a British English spelling and does not exist in American English (afaik).
18:30:45 <TinoDidriksen> Well, at least it's now a political problem of what OTTD means. The language part is taken care of, methinks, which was all I cared about.
18:31:09 <Tekky> A deviation of 10% in the quantity seems more tolerable than using British English spelling in the American English translation.
18:31:54 <peter1138> Just add a 'US imperial' setting...
18:33:14 <peter1138> litres -> gallons, tonnes -> tons, and whatever tractive effort is in ;)
18:33:42 <Tekky> After all, that was the whole point of having an American English translation, to get rid of that ugly British English spelling. :-)
18:34:11 * Tekky dodges the attacks from people living in the UK.
18:34:46 <Belugas> i prefer by far the British english than the amwerican one
18:35:22 <Tekky> Oh... Well, that's because you were a British Colony far longer than the US :)
18:35:56 <Tekky> Canada is still part of the British Commonwealth, isn't it?
18:37:17 <TinoDidriksen> They're part of the Commonwealth of Nations, I believe.
18:38:06 <Belugas> and the US were not a british colony in any way, i suppose?
18:38:21 <Belugas> hoo... in deed... far longer...
18:41:10 <Tekky> New York, for example, was under British rule for only 100 years.....
19:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something is wrong with my route network
19:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it did not recognise that i changed a route
19:03:50 <Jupix> is there a problem with the image processing thingy at the wiki? it's not generating thumbnails :/
19:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and now the cargo wants to go through the non-existing route
19:10:37 <Tekky> Eddi: Are you talking about the PaxDest patch?
19:14:28 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
19:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm talking about cargodest
19:21:20 <peter1138> I just built a new high speed direct line for a new train...
19:21:45 <peter1138> And the new train continues on the old congested line with many stations, but some slow freight uses the new line :o
19:22:05 <peter1138> I don't like using waypoints :o
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19:27:11 <Wolf01> I had the same problem, I cut the old line so all trains were forced to use the new 4 lanes mainline
19:28:18 <peter1138> Well the old line is needed for the local trains.
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19:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> increase the station penalty
19:39:42 <planetmaker> or install some additional penalties like roads or stations on the old line :)
19:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> timetabeling is a bitch...
19:42:22 * Belugas whistles innocently toward restrictions on a certain new window...
19:46:37 <Swallow> thinks about routing restrictions with a configurable penalty
19:48:33 <Swallow> can you keep a secret? :)
19:48:55 <Belugas> gaaaa.... writing "Waypoints" instead of "Payments" :S
19:49:11 <Swallow> k it wont be secret then
19:49:28 <Swallow> I'm currently working on a breakdowns patch
19:49:43 <Swallow> that allows having different types of breakdowns
19:52:17 *** stillunk1own has joined #openttd
19:52:21 <Swallow> I got a test version running for trains only
19:54:16 * peter1138 ponders resurrecting his restrictions patch...
19:55:09 <planetmaker> peter1138: what restrictions were possible?
19:55:42 <peter1138> speed, weight, group, etc...
20:02:15 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
20:03:58 <Swallow> <cargodest] I'm having some p
20:04:22 <Swallow> I'm having some problems with cargodest...
20:04:42 <Swallow> town names don't show up for some reason... :S
20:05:31 <Swallow> and the 'routing' button on the minimap is greyed out
20:07:08 * Belugas reads a patch from o.zip, from r4294
20:10:37 *** Hobo_Bob has joined #openttd
20:12:35 <Wolf01> ok, I played hexic enough, back to develop patches
20:35:55 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
20:38:53 <Digitalfox> Shit my server just got infected with some fuc*ing bad virus.. Explorer is just crashing each 30s, the CPU data executation protection is blocking all kind of fuc*ing weird processes, firefox is opening hundreds of spyware pages, and I just had the remove the Lan cable, and guess what Nod32 fully updated antivirus bussines edition, doesn't detect nothing.. How FU*K IS THAT?
20:39:34 <SpComb> server running, what, windows xp?
20:40:21 <Digitalfox> Wolf yeah, if i can install anything :(
20:40:37 <Prof_Frink> Digitalfox: Run Stinger first
20:40:52 <SpComb> Digitalfox: reinstall from scratch?
20:41:01 <Digitalfox> I mean the sthit is that is a fully 2003 updated, with a great antiviru ( until now it seems )
20:41:16 <Wolf01> install it on another pc, then use a pen drive (better if with write protection) and use it from there
20:41:20 <Digitalfox> SpComb well shit, I guess so, unfortunately..
20:41:21 <SpComb> I've luckily never had the misfortune to personally encouter a compromised linux server
20:41:52 <SpComb> although I have run into some unknown user doing some weird things with the superuser account, and then covering up their tracks
20:43:34 <Digitalfox> It's unbelievable, Nod after a full scan ( with all options turn on, even the damn unwanted applications turned on ) doesn't detect that..
20:43:52 <Digitalfox> I mean how the hell can this happen?
20:44:35 <SpComb> once your system is compromised, it's basically compromised
20:44:47 <SpComb> you can't trust anything that you see or what your virus scanner sees
20:44:59 <Digitalfox> SpComb yes, but come on, NOD was already running fully updated..
20:45:15 <SpComb> you'll never be perfectly immune from everything
20:45:38 <SpComb> (unless running OpenBSD in like securelevel 2)
20:45:45 <Prof_Frink> But not if you have an internet connection
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20:51:35 <Wolf01> I'm trying to do a strange thing: when placing roadstations with drag&drop, I want to limit the size to 2 tiles along the diagdirection, and then the 2 lines of stations should have the entrances in opposite direction
20:52:13 <DaleStan> "The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards -- and even then I have my doubts." -- Gene Spafford
20:55:40 *** mortal` has joined #openttd
20:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> drag&drop stations that only allow 2 width won't prevent you from dragging 3 tiles either, it will then just fail to build anything
20:58:28 <Eddi|zuHause> aw damn... again with the reservations
20:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm suspecting it has to do with trains turning around in stations
21:00:55 *** Amixbook has joined #openttd
21:04:36 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: FS#2250 ?
21:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if that's what Roujin posted, then i think it's something different
21:12:25 <michi_cc> it is. that bug's about adjacent stations, so if you don't have them it is probably indeed something different
21:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i technically have adjacent stations, but next to each other... but it could theoretically show also because of my middle_stop patch (so trains are not at the end of the platform when they turn around)
21:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i only noticed this problem after my last update
21:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it didn't show before
21:21:35 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
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21:31:22 <DJNekkid> hi devs ... i got a question: would it be possible to add livery overrides to the openttdw for the opengfx project?
21:31:34 <DJNekkid> not as-is now, but in some kind of release in the future?
21:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> err... what's that supposed to help with?
21:37:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and why can't it do that as a newgrf?
21:40:13 <Rubidium> because distributing newgrfs is cumbersome
21:41:20 <Amixbook> i wish i could code. then i would help you out with morphos version of openttd. but bah.. life is choices ;(
22:12:27 *** Sacro is now known as Jolteon
22:17:11 *** Jolteon is now known as ohrudge
22:17:15 *** ohrudge is now known as Sacro
22:19:17 *** McChicken has joined #openttd
22:19:51 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14129 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13935) [FS#2247]: Signal state for PBS signals was not updated when cycling the signal side. Patch by michi_cc with a small addition from me.
22:26:42 <Rubidium> Jupix: the upload problem is solved now
22:27:17 <Sacro> McChicken: i'm hungry :(
22:27:50 <McChicken> I need help with starting a server. there is the error "bind() failed"
22:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you have multiple interfaces?
22:28:26 <Sacro> he has multiple interfaces?
22:28:38 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14130 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13961) [FS#2248]: Clear the stuck state of a train that is reversing with the first vehicle inside a depot. (michi_cc)
22:29:18 <McChicken> i've got a webserver. yesterday it worked fine, but today it won't start
22:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> an instance is already running and occupies the port?
22:34:08 <McChicken> how can i check this??
22:38:29 <DJNekkid> Eddi|zuHause: sorry, i were afk ... but the point was, when opengfx is done, why not make "built in" livery overrides for the typical pax engines (IC125 and the TGVs basicly)
22:38:38 <DJNekkid> plus perhaps the Millennium and the Chimaera
22:38:58 <DJNekkid> it _can_ be done with newgrf, but it wont be "built in"
22:39:15 <DJNekkid> and none-experienced users wont get the benefit of it :)
22:42:32 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14131 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13952) [FS#2250]: The reservation of adjacent stations was sometimes not freed correctly. (michi_cc)
22:48:24 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14132 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r14039): Only reserve a path on leaving a station if the current block really is a PBS block. (michi_cc)
22:50:11 <frosch123> it is a pleasure to commit michi_cc's patches :)
22:53:35 <Tekky> "addictive" is an understatement :)
22:54:24 <Tekky> fjb: What NewGRF are you using for the town skyscrapers?
22:54:49 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14133 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2249]: close the 'manage vehicles' dropdown once the number of vehicles in the list reaches 0.
22:55:19 <fjb> Total Town replacement Set.
22:55:35 * Tekky is impressed with TTRS3.
22:56:26 <Tekky> Does TTRS3 offer only new graphics or also added functionality?
22:57:11 <fjb> It offers hotels. they generate tourists if you have an industry set with tourists loaded.
22:58:38 <Tekky> fjb: Were you playing with standard parameters or did you explicitly disable the old buildings?
22:59:23 <fjb> Only buildings from TTRS and the McDonalds GRF are in the game.
22:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the opengfx rails are way too dark... they look like path reservations
23:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the use of that 180° curve?
23:00:59 <fjb> It feeds the iron ore train cache.
23:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and why not split it off further down the line?
23:02:49 <fjb> It is a bit hilly there. And it would disturb the signal blocks a bit. And it got added late in the game. And the trains are fast enough there anyway.
23:04:29 <Amixbook> showing how much damage bus thinking did in 1983
23:04:49 <Amixbook> it suddendly destroyed lots of charming trams
23:05:13 <Amixbook> the last picture is from 2003. place is restored for trams again
23:06:07 <fjb> Big towns need pblic people movers like trams.
23:06:13 <Amixbook> its from the same place 1981 to 2003
23:06:52 <Amixbook> most effective way of travelling
23:08:15 <fjb> Better than lots of cars transporting one person each.
23:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> trams are good for medium sized cities, especially ones with no-road-traffic zones
23:09:35 <Tekky> Why is the braking distance of a train significantly higher than that of a car, even if the speed is the same? Are the brakes of trains just worse? Or is it due to trains being a lot heavier?
23:10:45 <glx> and steel on steel has not a too high friction coef
23:11:21 <fjb> Braking distance of ships is even higher at the same speed. :-)
23:12:20 <glx> even direction changes must be planed in advance
23:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: the acceleration of a train is even worse than the braking
23:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the ships are too tiny :)
23:13:57 <Tekky> well, the advantage with trains is that every single carriage of the train has its own brakes, whereas when accelerating, the engine has to do all the work by itself.
23:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the arch bridge is really lovely
23:14:16 <glx> Tekky: not for all trains
23:14:55 <fjb> Yes, the ships are tiny. I wanted to mimic the design of some real long bridges.
23:15:31 <Tekky> glx: Are you saying that same trains have no brakes except in the engine?
23:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> we need 2 tile wide ocean ships
23:16:06 <fjb> At least not every car of the train must have brakes.
23:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: especially old freight trains only had brakes in the engine and occasionally in the last wagon
23:16:46 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: We nedd ships that don't stack at the same tile...
23:16:47 <glx> and some trains have engines under each carriage
23:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: a car with 50 hp can easily outrun a single engine with 5000 hp
23:19:08 <fjb> I was chasing a train with my 55hp car the other day. I won, but then came the next town... .-(
23:20:44 <Tefad> 55hp lol what is that a metro?
23:21:00 <Tefad> i thought my truck sucked with 99hp
23:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: i was talking about starting from 0km/h, not already running ;)
23:22:02 <fjb> I can easily outrun a starting train with my bike.
23:22:27 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
23:22:27 <fjb> Top speed is another question...
23:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> top speed is irrelevant... that is usually dictated by the line
23:25:27 <fjb> Hm, maybe irrelevant for the train...
23:26:07 *** McChicken_ has joined #openttd
23:29:20 <McChicken_> does anybody know who you must use the command "-c"
23:33:01 <Progman> just "-c the_config_file.cfg"
23:33:02 <FauxFaux> McChicken_: Surely it just accepts a path?
23:33:58 <McChicken_> but where do i have to put the config file
23:34:10 <glx> where you want if you use -c
23:36:26 <McChicken_> ok thanks it works
23:46:15 <rortom> mh is there a nightly built paxdest version?
23:46:23 <rortom> or will paxdest be integrated soon?
23:52:05 <rortom> yes to which question? ;)
23:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and it will be integrated, for certain definitions of "soon" :)
23:53:12 <rortom> i need a server linux version :(
23:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ./configure --dedicated && make?
23:54:18 <fmauNeko> --enable-dedicated, isn't it ?
23:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that TrueBrain made test builds for several architectures, but i don't know where he put them...
continue to next day ⏵
