IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-28
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00:12:24 <DaveWorley> Good evening gentlemen.
00:13:06 <DaveWorley> Looking for a bit of help - you will have seen my thread in the forums - is someone willing to help me step through certain stages of this "build your own" thing?
00:15:30 <Sacro> DaveWorley: which bit of t'forums?
00:16:00 <DaveWorley> OTTD General Forum
00:18:29 <Touqen> I see the post about switching to ottd but worried about the pbs thread...
00:18:57 <Sacro> DaveWorley: i did a search for all your posts in gen openttd
00:19:43 <Touqen> He has a post on the first page of gen.
00:19:52 <Touqen> You're crazy man, crazy.
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00:21:24 <DaveWorley> Quite, Touqen, quite.
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00:21:32 <DaveWorley> How do I use this myself then, this patchpack from the lad.
00:21:50 <Sacro> do you have a build environment?
00:21:55 <Sacro> and doesn't he post win32 binaries?
00:22:00 <Touqen> DaveWorley: Can you use BuildOTTD?
00:22:08 <DaveWorley> Apparently not since I'm using Vista?
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00:23:07 <Belugas> Depending of your habilities, you might give a try at MSVC9
00:23:25 <Belugas> i think Lakie has managed to make it work with Vista
00:23:29 <DaveWorley> Please don't confuse me.
00:23:34 <DaveWorley> I'm a .. casual .. user.
00:23:35 <glx> DaveWorley: you can use it but not with the GUI
00:23:52 <Belugas> ho hoo... TV calls...
00:23:58 <Touqen> Why exaclty doens't the gui work in Vista?
00:24:30 <glx> dunno exactly why buildottd doesn't work on vista, but mingw should work
00:24:53 <glx> at least if the mingw/msys env is up to date
00:25:00 * DaveWorley watches this go over his head.
00:26:07 <DaveWorley> Right so... roest's patch.
00:28:35 <DaveWorley> Can I not just unzip this zip file here with "OpenTTD" application in?
00:29:54 <Touqen> DaveWorley: Only if it's a built binary.
00:30:03 <DaveWorley> We'll see in a minute, then.
00:30:06 <Touqen> If it's just the patch (.diff), then you'll need to compile.
00:30:18 <DaveWorley> it's an app, not a .diff
00:32:19 <Touqen> Extract it and try and run it.
00:32:24 <DaveWorley> We're about to find out, when Vista stops being a bitch.
00:32:37 <DaveWorley> Vista's extraction facility is slower than my mother over a hundred metres.
00:32:50 <DaveWorley> I just couldn't be arsed to get the WinZip out.
00:33:23 <Sacro> DaveWorley: if tis an exe should be fine
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00:34:32 <DaveWorley> It is... Just pasted it into the OTTD folder.
00:38:06 <DaveWorley> I think I might make this lad a saint.
00:38:44 <DaveWorley> Thanks Sacro, Touqen.
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06:31:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13305 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13039): Confirmation window sent both yes and no answers instead of just yes.
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07:45:07 <dih> /* Don't give an equal sign to list items that don't have a parameter */
07:45:20 <dih> that aint ini style conform is it now!
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08:06:37 <peter1138> notice it's not called "openttd.ini"
08:06:45 <dih> i was more or less serious about it, because it stops other apps (perhaps in another language) to parse the ini file (when using standard or built in ini parsers)
08:07:16 <dih> static bool ini_save(const char *filename, IniFile *ini)
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08:08:30 <dih> peter1138: you wanna rather change all methods to say cfg_something?
08:08:48 <peter1138> get. out. of. my. head.
08:09:21 <Mchl> I feel great disturbance in the force...
08:14:29 <dih> peter1138: i will appologise as i mean no annoyance
08:15:19 <dih> and eh... thanks for explaining!
08:17:28 * peter1138 is actually concentrating on work stuff :p
08:18:58 <Rubidium> #define Ini somethatthatlookslikeIni
08:19:05 <Rubidium> #define ini somethatthatlookslikeini
08:21:46 <dih> what is wrong about making it ini standard? (just so i may understand where the issue is)
08:29:53 <Ammler> dih: you could remove everything and just leave the line fprintf(f, " = %s\n", item->value);, can't you
08:30:37 <dih> shh.... dont make it simpler than it already is, people dont seem to like it around here :-P
08:31:21 <dih> esp. as that is really the _only_ thing that needed dooing, as loading the ini file with = at the end of a line is no issue IIRC
08:33:50 * peter1138 is, of course, not doing it, purely because of the amount of protesting.
08:34:09 <dih> peter1138: dont blame you :-D
08:42:44 <dih> you know what - forget it, i'll just write my own parser :-P
08:48:39 <Ammler> on the other side, the file is called .cfg, not .ini
08:52:10 * planetmaker ponders on the actual difference between an ini and a config in terms of usage...
08:53:51 * planetmaker also ponders what's the big deal as most people care $%§ about whether there's a = in the cfg or not and those with a script would need it...
09:05:33 <Mchl> now... shall I ask, why OpenTTD config file is not in XML?
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09:06:44 <Rubidium> and then we would require even more dependencies
09:06:52 <Rubidium> which are more than likely not available on all platforms
09:08:15 <Mchl> could as well ask: 'hey, JSON would be nice for config file' :D
09:08:20 <dih> yes - but if it were xml and one tag was not closed.......
09:12:11 <Ammler> Mchl: the dicsussion is not about changing the format, just about make it standard with a small change.
09:12:13 <peter1138> amavisd sucks for memory usage
09:12:48 <peter1138> it must do something that upsets shared memory, cos each one is 70MB resident
09:13:32 <dih> is that the old or the "new" one?
09:14:27 <peter1138> fortunately the machine has a gig of spam
09:14:45 <peter1138> heh, athlon mps... how quaint
09:15:04 <dih> you could have a look at the av stuff from www.freeav.com
09:15:22 <dih> i am not sure it's easy to implement in mail things
09:15:41 <peter1138> well amavisd is just a email -> av gateway thing
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09:16:44 <peter1138> it does have spamassassin loaded in it though
09:22:21 <Ammler> peter1138: why did I guess, you are german?
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09:23:38 <dih> Ammler: you did not guess, you falsely assumed :-P
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10:30:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13306 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix (r8362): Pass engine list by pointer instead of making a copy of it.
10:45:53 <k-man> do i have to do something special to enable trams?
10:46:23 <dih> nice idea would be to get the #openttdcoop grf pack
10:52:13 <k-man> what do i do with the grf pack?
10:52:52 <dih> you did not read the page where you can download the grf pack from, did you
10:53:35 <dih> nor did you have a look at the openttd readme file
10:53:49 <dih> or as others like calling it, the (dont)readme file
10:54:45 <dih> hylje: yes - that would probably do the trick
10:55:43 * dih is making a mirror of svn.openttd.org :-P
10:58:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
10:58:47 <dih> for one thing, to avoid being blocked due to the websvn
11:03:06 <Mchl> oh my... which svn should I use.... so many options... :P
11:07:00 <Bjarni> use the one that will give you the source of the trunk
11:07:07 <Bjarni> so you can edit it and make diff files
11:07:39 <hylje> or alternatively use the various DVCSes provided (hg and git) and commit away
11:08:46 <dih> does anybody know the stats openttd.org gets out of the google adsense?
11:10:41 <dih> did not say i was going to make the mirror accessible :-P
11:18:02 <Mchl> So I'll use one which is accessible :P
11:20:58 <Mchl> man, I completly lost my adsense account data...
11:21:02 <dih> well - i could make it accessible
11:21:17 <dih> perhaps it could lift load from openttd
11:22:15 <Mchl> it's all because they didn't let me adsense and adwords on same google account...
11:22:46 <dih> why would you want to add adwords?
11:23:46 <Mchl> is load on svn.openttd.org that high, it would need a mirror?
11:25:16 <Rubidium> not that I'm aware of
11:25:20 <Mchl> I never had any problems connectiong to it
11:25:33 <dih> well - TB told me to make a mirror for the websvn rather than accessing the repository direclty each time
11:26:38 <Mchl> are there any stats as to how many checkouts per day (hour/minute/second/century) are there?
11:26:41 <peter1138> it would be high with websvn accessing it
11:26:43 <peter1138> that's the thing :)
11:27:30 <Rubidium> well... trac has used way way too many resources as websvn
11:27:38 <Rubidium> but removing trac solved all performance issues
11:27:52 <dih> trac was running standalone
11:27:59 * Lakie checks it out only just before he wants to play it (which is around every week, however I'd imagine at the speed things change, quite a lot)?
11:28:02 <dih> i never had issues running trac through apache2
11:28:32 <dih> and TB said that access to older revs is intence too
11:29:12 <Lakie> Thats also quite likely.
11:30:10 <peter1138> do you svn up or check out the complete thing? heh
11:30:57 <Lakie> Doing the whole thing takes too long.
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11:44:47 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
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11:48:36 <Mchl> now, how do you get command list? :P
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11:51:33 <Mchl> would probably flood the channel :)
11:54:24 * Lakie likes the way that the cheat window hot key is automatically hooked by his ATi drivers.
11:54:31 <Lakie> Heh, not that I've used it though.
11:55:41 <Mchl> ATi drivers stole made one letter unaccessible in my Vista system...
11:56:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13307 /trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Separate VehicleList and its two functions so only the 3 users include it, reducing dependencies on misc/smallvec.h
11:56:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13308 /trunk/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): -Fix (r13307): projects/generate...
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11:58:39 <peter1138> auto-sizing array, basically
11:59:13 <Lakie> So basically like the std::vector.
11:59:37 <peter1138> yeah, but slightly different, and we know what's in it ;)
11:59:46 <peter1138> and we know the memory allocation policy
12:00:16 <Rubidium> no need to memcpy structs when adding it to the vector
12:00:37 <Rubidium> i.e. half the amount of write actions to memory
12:02:00 <peter1138> important as the viewport drawer uses it
12:03:47 <Lakie> I see, so a more optimised for perpose one, nice.
12:04:29 <DorpsGek> dih: Ctcp, Filter, Format, Math, Misc, OpenTTD, Scheduler, Seen, Topic, WT2, and XMLRPC
12:06:23 <peter1138> although we've ended up using it in other places too where a std::vector would probably be okay
12:06:32 <peter1138> even then, knowing the allocation policy is nice
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13:06:34 <echinos> I have a savegame that keeps crashing on me - if I start from command line, it says "Error: !Disconnecting train
13:09:43 <glx> savegame from a broken ottd version?
13:11:19 <echinos> the savegame was started on the same install of openttd
13:11:43 <echinos> I have 2 installed, but I haven't changed them
13:12:32 <echinos> It's not a huge deal, I was mostly done that game anyway
13:17:03 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Off Topic: Any suggestions on good websites for HDTV reviews?
13:17:17 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Trying to read up on LED DLPs
13:18:23 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> I'd prefer english, but can read some Deutsch.
13:20:49 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> dih: Was assuming your Q was for me, apologies if it was not.
13:21:59 <dih> search for stiftung waren test ;-)
13:24:48 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> dih: Thanks
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13:51:02 <Sacro> Touqen: i'm in many places
13:51:29 <Touqen> You're like God or something.
13:52:01 <Forked> oh thats where he is hiding
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13:56:37 * peter1138 has found out how to make vista usable
13:57:11 <peter1138> switched to windows classic theem ;)
13:57:30 <dih> start playing about with office 2007
13:57:45 <glx> hehe aero is a ressource eater
14:01:13 <peter1138> i have openoffice installed, not ms office
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14:29:53 <dih> peter1138: thing with ms office 2007 is, if you were able of using any previous version of office, you will fail with office 2007
14:32:04 <peter1138> actually it's not gay
14:32:05 <peter1138> because gay is fine
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14:32:16 <peter1138> it's like a paedophile in the software world
14:33:52 <Sacro> Office Jonathon King edition?
14:36:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13309 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: the difficulty settings from the savegame would be reset by the ones of the intro game.
14:37:32 <dih> peter1138: it offends little kids?
14:39:34 <Rubidium> dih: no it molests them...
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14:40:55 <dih> peter1138: you feel molested by ms office 2007
14:47:19 * Belugas avoids from now on to mix god and dih on the same context...
14:47:48 <dih> peter1138: you may call me dih :-D
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14:48:23 <dih> Belugas: 'from now on' what triggered it?
14:48:24 <Sacro> or one of his many alteregos
14:49:29 <Belugas> and seen how long we can discuss on that matter...
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14:59:51 * Hendikins yawns, doing the overnight shift at this station is *boring*
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15:18:18 * Hendikins installs all the bits and pieces so he can play openttd at work
15:18:29 <Belugas> what a genius this Trent Reznor guy is... IN CRE DI BLE
15:22:43 <Hendikins> dragonhorseboy: I say openttd is a great way to pass the time when I'm doing back shift at a small railway station
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15:24:16 <Belugas> SmatZ, better known as Nine Inch Nails :)
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15:25:51 <Belugas> try coding for it, Hendikins...
15:25:58 <Belugas> loooong hours of pure fun!
15:27:49 <dragonhorseboy> hendikins very funny :p
15:27:50 <Hendikins> Belugas: Er, no. This is why I work for the railways.
15:28:09 <Hendikins> dragonhorseboy: I'm dead serious. What else am I going to do at 1:30am?
15:28:41 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13310 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp osk_gui.cpp): -Fix: invalidate OSK when parent editbox changes (from keyboard)
15:29:15 <Sacro> Hendikins: i know of it
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15:32:09 <Hendikins> Sacro: I could alternatively say "Rail Corporation New South Wales", however my duties fall completely within CityRail station operations.
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15:33:49 <Hendikins> The only reason this particular station is staffed 24/7 is the 5 sets of points in close proximity to it.
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15:35:35 <Hendikins> hylje: They're points in Australian English.
15:35:53 <Hendikins> Just like it is a railway, not a railroad.
15:36:21 <peter1138> and english english
15:36:45 <Sacro> and international english
15:37:11 <Hendikins> And just remember, there's three ways: the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
15:37:33 <dih> with a mug of hot tea and a drop of milk
15:38:00 <Hendikins> And a couple of biscuits.
15:39:38 <Hendikins> I actually don't mind this particular station.
15:39:54 <Hendikins> It just gets a bit boring if I'm stuck doing 10 back shifts in a row
15:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> * Hendikins yawns, doing the overnight shift at this station is *boring* <- well, if you were on the right side of the world, it would be the dayshift :p
15:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's so weird... lately i have a ghost in my keyboard
15:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> every now and then, there are random keypresses even though i did not touch anything
15:50:14 <Hendikins> Eddi|zuHause2: I am on the right side of the world. I live in the best country there is :P
15:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, you have everything reversed, even "right" and "best" ;)
15:52:05 <Hendikins> You're just scared of our deadly wildlife :P
15:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> hey, we had a living wild bear a few years ago
15:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the pussies were too afraid, so they shot him
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16:02:48 <Belugas> i'll send my "pussy" over there... will make just a bite out of that bear...
16:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am certain now... he only quits to show off his quitmessage...
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16:16:27 <a1270> Eddi|zuHause2, actually i was watching wireshark and saw i wasn't connected to here via ssl.
16:20:10 * Belugas has too much of it, and sends a few to a1270
16:20:55 <peter1138> what the hell is a life?
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16:30:23 <Mchl> available at www.life.com
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16:32:23 <Digitalfox> Great Foxmarks finally support Firefox 3 =0 Now I can see what all the noise about FF3 is =0
16:33:35 <SmatZ> do Digitalmarks support Digitalfox ?
16:34:09 <Mchl> and Firebug 1.2.0 b1 also works fine at last
16:35:02 <Digitalfox> It's just nice to see the extensions finally working
16:35:43 <Sacro> i seem to be capitalising like a german
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16:42:02 <dih> <peter1138> [18:20:55] what the hell is a life? <-- as soon as you start grunting at someone wanting an = sign at the end of a apparently not ini file
16:42:34 <dih> "things" without a life just "work"
16:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Mchl> do You? <- very subtile ;)
16:45:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13311 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt):
16:45:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use GUIList for the industry directory window
16:45:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replaced the four sort buttons by a dropdown
16:45:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Reduced the default window size
16:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> german word is "subtil"... it's not my fault that the english people can't write corretcly ;)
16:47:55 <Belugas> [12:40] <dih> "things" without a life just "work" <-- "devs" without a life just "dev"
16:50:40 <Hendikins> Hrm. I think my #1 problem playing ottd is that I try to be too elegant.
16:51:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13312 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r13311 to other languages
16:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Hendikins: i know that problem.
16:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS helps a great deal ;)
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16:53:34 <Hendikins> Nothing wrong with being elegant, but it is easy to overdo it
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16:58:36 <Belugas> dih, can you turn off you svn stuff for a moment please?
16:59:25 <Ammler> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/ottdc/svn-trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp', needed by `yapf/yapf_ship.d'. Stop
16:59:45 <Belugas> heheh and who said "you silent bunch" yesterday? the silent one!
17:00:31 <Ammler> Belugas: ban the ip :-)
17:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> i go on strike!
17:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i won't play any openttd until YAPP is in trunk
17:01:48 <Ammler> then your strike is not that long
17:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not need to be, as long as it fulfils the purpose ;)
17:02:44 <Ammler> maybe you should also not eat at that time
17:04:06 * Forked is a big fan of the Care Factory
17:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> which brings me back to the above lines :p
17:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is a hell of a "backfire" :p
17:06:46 * hylje sends a care pack to Forked
17:06:56 <Ammler> [18:59] <Ammler> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/ottdc/svn-trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp', needed by `yapf/yapf_ship.d'. Stop <-- did I make something wrong here?
17:07:56 <Belugas> who knows what you did?
17:08:17 <Ammler> just svn up and ./configure && make
17:08:58 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13313 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix-ish (r13306): List was copied in another place the autoreplace gui...
17:10:37 <SmatZ> strange, maybe make clean first?
17:11:01 <Ammler> SmatZ: seems to work now
17:11:18 <Touqen> it gets rid of the intermediate files
17:11:21 <SmatZ> removes all compiled files
17:11:55 <Ammler> is that because I stopped make before it was finished the first time
17:12:17 <Ammler> hmm, but I did that not the first time
17:12:47 <Ammler> I just forget that I need to enable dedicated mode on my VPS
17:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> why not put that in the ./configure ?
17:13:43 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: make clean?
17:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> or why ./configure at all after svn up?
17:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> ./configure is only needed once
17:14:25 <Ammler> but I configured without dedicated
17:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: no, enable dedicated
17:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: it will automattically configure dedicated if you uninstall sdl :)
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17:15:26 <Ammler> I have sdl there to use it with ssh -x
17:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: sdl-devel
17:16:29 <Ammler> well, myself has no idea aobut it at all, dih did that :-)
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17:21:29 <Ammler> autopilot fails after update to the new ini format too :(
17:23:45 <Belugas> don't write ini format then :)
17:25:21 <peter1138> it's a cfg format ;)
17:25:51 <Ammler> well, I meant the new cfg, maybe it is something else...
17:26:24 <Belugas> yeah, a cfg format is different than an ini one :)
17:28:38 <Ammler> somone idea what the problem could be?
17:28:42 <Ammler> ottdc@mozart:~/svn-nightly/bin> ./autopilot.tcl
17:28:50 <Ammler> Connected to IRC server
17:29:06 <Ammler> Starting new game named 'Ammler's Test'
17:29:14 <Ammler> too few arguments for math function
17:29:22 <Ammler> "expr (pow(2,[get_setting patches map_y]))"
17:29:30 <Ammler> "if { [ string equal "$arg1" "load" ] } {
17:29:30 <Ammler> if { [ string length $arg2 ] > 0 } {
17:29:30 <Ammler> set commandline "$openttd -c $inifilename -D -g $arg2"
17:29:31 <Rubidium> well... learn Autopilot the new format
17:29:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13314 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Switch EngineList from std::vector to GUIList
17:29:52 <Ammler> Rubidium: any idea, what did change for autopilot?
17:30:02 <peter1138> the config file changed
17:30:17 <Ammler> but autopilot doesn't care about them
17:30:17 <peter1138> there is no [patches] section any more
17:30:30 <Ammler> only network and autopilot
17:30:37 <peter1138> 18:27 Ammler> "expr (pow(2,[get_setting patches map_y]))"
17:30:42 <peter1138> get_settings game_creation map_y
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17:31:51 <peter1138> seems simple to fix though :)
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17:33:31 <Ammler> peter1138: yeah, I try, If I can do that, it is easy, indeed. :-)
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19:21:31 <dih> gnah - something changed on console related src files...
19:24:16 <glx> yes, they have been splitted in logical units
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19:35:02 <Belugas> you're still working on that project? nice :)
19:37:51 <dih> and i enjoy hasseling TB when i lack knowledge...
19:39:51 <Belugas> which means the poor soul is submerged by your questions!
19:41:10 <dih> there is a channel were him and i hide :-P
19:41:24 <dih> SmatZ: i did not know you were THAT fat
19:41:57 <nicfer> idea for a new industry: biofuel refinery, transforms grain and algae (from other new industry, the algae plantations) into goods (fuel)
19:42:13 <dih> i'll take that as a compliment Rubidium
19:42:39 <Rubidium> nicfer: nice idea, happy coding the NewGRF
19:43:55 <nicfer> ideas for patches are better to discuse in the patch thread right?
19:44:07 <nicfer> althrough this is more general
19:44:35 <Belugas> nicfer, what Rubidium means is that you do not need to do a patch, you need to do a grf for it
19:44:55 <Belugas> since we support newindustries...
19:45:27 <nicfer> I was talking if I am allowed to talk about openttd patches here
19:45:39 <nicfer> not related to the new industry ideas
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19:46:44 <Belugas> just that if you would like to see your biofuel stuff, the best way to see it happening is by creating a new industry grf ;)
19:48:55 <dih> would it not be more tidy to move console stuff in it's separate directory
19:49:10 <dih> there are so many of them :-P
19:49:53 <peter1138> easier to get filename conflicts :(
19:50:12 <glx> peter1138: right, MSVC is picky about that
19:51:02 <nicfer> for example coal mines doesn't get built anywhere, they need coal below the soil
19:51:04 <Ammler> you can't have same names in different directories?
19:51:08 <glx> src/a.cpp and src/b/a.cpp output the same .obj
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19:51:38 <glx> Ammler: MSVC puts all .obj in the same dir
19:51:46 <nicfer> I don't know how to write it in english
19:53:16 <Belugas> i see what you mean, nicfer. YOu mean that coal mines should be built in regions where there are coal underground, and not everywhere
19:53:36 <nicfer> same with farms and oil wells
19:54:07 <Belugas> right now, the game implies that coal/oil/resources are everywhere
19:54:15 <Belugas> so, if it needs to be done,
19:54:27 <Rubidium> do not allow building primary industries and prospecting will only build them where there's coal/oil in the ground (that's how it currently is)
19:54:58 <Belugas> it means that regions have to be defined when game starts, regions where it is likely to find resources
19:55:16 <nicfer> you don't build a farm in arid zones right?
19:55:46 <Belugas> what is the difference ?
19:55:51 <Belugas> it's the same all over the map
19:56:02 <dih> farms usually rely on pigs cows and wheat that is in certain areas under the ground
19:56:27 <Belugas> ho? mining pings and cows?
19:57:00 <dih> [21:53] <nicfer> same with farms and oil wells <-- that was in response to that :-P
19:57:30 <Belugas> i think he meant by "farms" places where agriculture can be achieved
19:57:58 <Belugas> remember, nicfer is not as good in english as we are. so, it's normal he makes some mistakes
19:59:01 <Belugas> regions i have in mind for a while. still not sure if it's needed. nor how to do it without making the engine crawls
20:06:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13315 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13314): Assert if no engines or wagons available
20:09:48 * ln-- was in Bjarniland/Bjarnistan today
20:10:20 <ln--> almost correct, but so wrong.
20:11:38 <Mchl> ln: did you take pictures of ferries?
20:12:01 <ln--> we used the bridges after all.
20:13:22 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
20:13:36 <Mchl> he thinks that people using bridges are not clever ;)
20:13:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13316 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move some functions around to make them grouped more logically.
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20:18:27 <Bjarni> <ln--> we used the bridges after all. <-- the ferry is half price
20:21:20 <Belugas> [16:11] <Mchl> he thinks that people using bridges are not clever ;) <-- /me stops working on bridges than...
20:21:54 <ln> Bjarni: I believe that, but my dad insisted using the bridges and he was the one who paid, so what can you do...
20:23:01 <Mchl> was he the one, who was driving?
20:23:37 <Bjarni> looks like the ferries just increased the prices due to oil prices while the bridge remained the same
20:23:58 <Mchl> bridge management is not clever enough
20:24:16 <Mchl> cars driving on bridge are using fuel made from oil
20:24:22 <Mchl> thus the price should be increased
20:26:40 <jez> Monica Bellucci is the sexiest thing in the world
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20:27:38 <Bjarni> now the prices totally shifted
20:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> i was about to write "what an odd thing to say right after joining such a channel", but then i realized it was jez i was talking about...
20:27:42 <Mchl> she's the second actually
20:28:03 <jez> Eddi|zuHause2: good realization
20:28:25 <Bjarni> one ferry line takes 275 for one way, the bridge takes 260 and the other ferry line will not sell you a one way ticket but sells return tickets for 305
20:28:51 <jez> if i was gay, Monica Bellucci would make me straight
20:29:02 <jez> i'm not, though, so she just makes me oversexed
20:29:50 <jez> nah, it's the level beyond that
20:30:05 <jez> there's horny, then there's this feeling you sometimes get when you see something so incredibly sexy it takes over you
20:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is nothing in that picture that would make me any kind of more attracted than any other woman...
20:31:25 <Bjarni> Scandlines are really cheap if you want to bring a bike/motorbike
20:31:32 <Bjarni> 21 DKK or 40 for a return ticket
20:31:35 <jez> Eddi|zuHause2: that is the perfect female form
20:31:43 <Bjarni> the bridge takes 145 for a one way ticket
20:31:44 <jez> as God designed, without flaw
20:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> she's way too skinny, and the boobs are fake
20:32:01 <jez> she's the perfect weight, and her boobs look real
20:32:10 <jez> if they were GG they would look fake
20:32:20 <Bjarni> <ln> 465 <-- funny... that price is not listed in their pricelist
20:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> they are actresses... their boobs are always fake...
20:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> on the same level as girls on the internet are guys
20:33:15 <Bjarni> ln: but I say that you wasted around 200+fuel for 50 km by taking the bridge then
20:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> man, they should start to build that bridge here...
20:34:22 <jez> Eddi|zuHause2: not sure why you believe that
20:34:33 <jez> i'd say she's one of the women whose boobs do not strike me as fake
20:34:52 <jez> frankly, if they are, i want to shake the hand of the surgeon
20:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: that only speaks for the surgeon ;)
20:35:33 <ln> Bjarni: but yes, i completely agree we wasted both money and fuel.
20:37:37 <ln> Bjarni: dunno, i think that's what the receipt from the first one stated.
20:38:27 <Bjarni> ln: so where are you now?
20:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> funny that they say they started in 2003, while there was no building work done yet
20:38:51 <jez> Bjarni: why arent you living together yet@?
20:39:00 *** jez was kicked by Bjarni (not funny)
20:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> when he crossed the bridge, that would place him in sweden ;)
20:40:04 <Bjarni> I just wondered if he stayed there or if he moved on ;)
20:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's the swedish word for "Gleis"? :p
20:40:32 <ln> 23:01 -!- ln-- [~lauri@h11n1fls32o987.telia.com] has joined #openttd
20:40:56 <Bjarni> oh so you are close to Motala
20:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: in the sense of "platform"
20:41:13 <ln> Bjarni: is that a good or bad thing?
20:41:18 <jez> what's the English word for "Gleis"?
20:41:52 <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: i think Spår is what they use at least in Finland. (and i don't recall travelling by train in sweden, ever)
20:42:10 <Bjarni> it's Spår in Swedish... I think
20:42:29 <jez> interesting fact: accents in French are almost totally redundant. the only ones that affect pronunciation are those on 'e'
20:42:40 <jez> other than that they're for decoration and should be dropped
20:42:51 <ln> jez: 58.4% of letters in French are redundant.
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20:42:58 <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: is that a good or bad thing? <-- basically I use it as a landmark because I know where it is
20:43:09 <Bjarni> we have a locomotive that was built in Motala
20:43:24 <jez> ln: but they can be represented in an ASCII font
20:43:58 <Bjarni> ln: so you plan on going to somewhere north of Stockholm and use a ferry to Turku tomorrow?
20:45:04 <ln> ferries from Stockholm to Turku and Helsinki are full tomorrow (as far as transporting a car is concerned), so we'll do something unexpected and go Umeå -> Vasa.
20:46:13 <Belugas> [16:40] <jez> interesting fact: accents in French are almost totally redundant. the only ones that affect pronunciation are those on 'e' <--- congratulations. YOu made AGAIN a perfect idiot of yourself
20:46:45 <Bjarni> ln: that's a detour of like 900 km o_O
20:47:24 <Bjarni> how about just reserving a ticket on the first free ferry?
20:47:27 <ln> Bjarni: not quite, as the final target is closer to Vaasa than to Turku.
20:47:51 <Bjarni> but still it's like 600 km in Sweden
20:48:19 <ln> Bjarni: but yes, a big detour, but cannot wait forever, not even a few days.
20:48:21 <Bjarni> however I guess the ferry is faster as the distance between the ports is smaller
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20:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you now want to cross the Saale [River], you have to take the ferry in Wettin (or less commonly the ferry in Brachwitz)
20:49:40 <Bjarni> ln: somehow I convinced myself that you lived in Turku :s
20:49:56 <ln> Bjarni: i do, my dad doesn't.
20:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> or you have to take the next bridge, which is in Halle Kröllwitz (East), or near Könnern (very far north)
20:50:46 <ln> men nu måste jag go sova.. god natt till dom som förstor denna raden.
20:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> all i understood was probably "forest"
20:51:37 <ln> yeah :/ ... woke up at 05:40 CET, expecting the same tomorrow morning
20:52:14 <Bjarni> it claims to be targeted only at the people who understands it
20:53:00 * Bjarni considers making a disclaimer like that
20:53:18 <Bjarni> would be interesting to write something like that in Japanese and put it up at campus
20:53:27 <Bjarni> people will be WTF and wonder what it says
20:54:01 <Bjarni> better yet: use random Chinese chars and nobody can figure out how to translate it
20:57:51 <Bjarni> are you still trying to translate what I just wrote?
20:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have never been to a lecture about semantics-free languages
20:58:16 <Bjarni> not at a technical university
21:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> (have fun translating :p)
21:01:14 <Bjarni> it's not as tricky to read as you might think
21:01:31 <Bjarni> the question is more like what hides behind the words used about languages
21:01:48 <Bjarni> like semantics-free language
21:02:11 <Bjarni> or Semantikfreie Sprachen if you like
21:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, syntax is how you form a sentence
21:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> and semantics is what the sentence means
21:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> so semantics-free languages try to achieve that whatever sentence you might be able to form, there is no chance it could possibly mean anything ;)
21:03:29 <Bjarni> so basically it's about languages without meaning?
21:04:16 <Bjarni> I know of a dorm where somebody wrote on some woodwork something in Latin about the caretaker
21:04:27 <Bjarni> and he really wondered what it meant
21:04:38 <Bjarni> and asked people who knew Latin to translate it and nobody could
21:05:14 <Bjarni> 20 years later he retired and was told that somebody made up Latin sounding words while being drunk but it was damn fun that one of them sounded like it could be his name
21:05:32 <Bjarni> well at least they thought it was damn fun when they wrote it
21:05:48 <Bjarni> maybe it wouldn't have been so fun to write if they were sober
21:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> while on that page, the lecture about inefficient sorting is always worth a read ;)
21:06:34 <Bjarni> I deal with useful stuff
21:07:00 <Bjarni> like trains, robots, power supply, atomic bombs, ships, navigation
21:07:05 <Mchl> my friends havr discovered the ultimate secret of universe while being... itoxicated...
21:07:16 <Bjarni> remove one in that line :P
21:07:32 <Mchl> they wrote it down, so they wouldn't forget it next morning...
21:07:52 <Mchl> and next morning they read "the guy next door is an asshole"
21:08:25 <Bjarni> at least they wrote perfectly well English while being drunk
21:08:38 <Bjarni> that's more than the Americans can do
21:08:51 <Mchl> that's strange, isnt it?
21:09:13 <Bjarni> the Americans can't write proper English while being sober either but that's another story
21:09:44 <Mchl> they seem to have slightly diffrent approach to grammar rules
21:10:51 <Bjarni> and intellectual level of content
21:12:19 <SmatZ> isn't your opinion affected by so many "songs" from America? ("black men talking mothafucka...")
21:14:39 <Mchl> how about white man (a president actually) talking rubbish? he doesn't do this all the tie, but it happensto him far to often...
21:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: that's part of the sanity ;)
21:16:35 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> isn't your opinion affected by so many "songs" from America? ("black men talking mothafucka...") <-- actually not... I was talking about the people
21:17:04 <Bjarni> Mchl: well.. compared to Reagan he is completely sane
21:17:47 <Bjarni> I think it was Reagan who had a whole lot of cards with stuff he should say and once in a while where there was a camera nearby he took at card at random and read what it said
21:17:52 <Bjarni> totally out of context
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21:18:28 <Bjarni> one of the best is when he read it incorrectly... he claimed that 90% of all air pollution came from trees
21:20:31 <Bjarni> one US President once returned from South America and declared that he learned a lot of that trip. For instance South America is not a country but consists of several countries
21:21:09 <Bjarni> one US president candidate once declared that he knew foreign affairs well. He could name all the continents
21:21:21 <Bjarni> that wasn't enough to get elected though
21:21:29 <Rubidium> and forgot antartica?
21:22:32 <SmatZ> well, hier anyone can be a president candidate if he gets enough support (I think 20 000 signs) ... but maybe it has changed
21:23:22 <Bjarni> Rubidium: I think he named 5 continents
21:23:39 <Rubidium> aren't there like 7-ish?
21:24:32 <Rubidium> there are 5, 6 or 7 continents depending on the model
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21:25:10 <Bjarni> North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia (might have been considered part of Asia back then), Antarctica (nobody important lives there so foreign affairs kind of don't care)
21:25:19 <SmatZ> how much planets are there in the Solar system?
21:25:34 <Bjarni> but today we officially claim the world to consist of 7 continents
21:25:45 <SmatZ> Rubidium is the winner!
21:25:46 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> how much planets are there in the Solar system? <-- 8
21:25:53 <Bjarni> Pluto lost it's status
21:25:54 <SmatZ> hehe it was a tricky question ;)
21:26:16 <Bjarni> and a whole lot of people complained afterwards
21:26:28 <Bjarni> they were absent when they voted on the status of Pluto
21:26:31 <Mchl> astrologers had their worst day ever
21:26:39 <Sacro> but it did set Holst right
21:27:00 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> poor Pluto <-- I think Mickey will treat him right anyway
21:27:37 <SmatZ> similiar, at school I was said Mt. Everest is 8848m heigh, now it is 8850...
21:29:18 <Rubidium> 8844.43 without the ice
21:29:25 <Mchl> these 2 extra meters it's all the stuff people carried on the top :P
21:29:50 <Rubidium> in 1999 someone measured 8850
21:29:58 <Bjarni> some Icelandic scientists made high precision GPS readings of the highest peak in Iceland
21:30:10 <Bjarni> so it ended up being lower than expected and Norway is higher
21:30:19 <Mchl> how exactly is 0 ASL height defined?
21:30:38 <SmatZ> Rubidium: even more interesting :)
21:30:43 <Bjarni> so if the Icelandic didn't try to verify what everybody believed Iceland would still be the highest point in northern Europe
21:30:59 <SmatZ> Mchl: depends on base...
21:31:05 <SmatZ> there are two bases I think
21:31:09 <Rubidium> the latter was made using GPS
21:31:14 <Rubidium> which I don't quite trust
21:31:27 <Bjarni> <Mchl> how exactly is 0 ASL height defined? <-- that's a really good question
21:32:16 <Bjarni> you can't even say that it's the height of the ocean
21:32:21 <Bjarni> because it's not stable
21:32:28 <Mchl> just occured to me, that you can move mountain tops quite a lot, by moving this level :P
21:32:39 <Bjarni> and then I would ask "which ocean?" because they aren't even at the same height
21:33:46 <Bjarni> The Panama channel can't go through without locks (as originally planned) due to the fact that the Caribbean is higher than the Pacific
21:34:00 <Bjarni> also they encountered other problems
21:34:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Bjarni> <SmatZ> how much planets are there in the Solar system? <-- 8 <-- it's totally bad, because now the phrase "Mein Vater Erklärt Mir Jeden Sonntag Unsere Neun Planeten" does not work anymore
21:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> (it's to memorize the names of the planet, because they start with the same letters)
21:36:05 <SmatZ> I think there are two base sea levels, difference between them is 19m
21:36:31 <Bjarni> Mercury, Venus, localhost, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune <--- that's the order
21:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> the sea level is different depending on how far away from the equator you are
21:36:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13317 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h settings.cpp settings_type.h):
21:36:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make news messages use a linked list instead of a moving circular buffer. This makes it possible to store more news messages in the history. Based on a patch by Cirdan.
21:36:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: the number of news messages is reduced by removing every news
21:36:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: message that is a configurable amount older than when it would not be shown in
21:36:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: the newspaper popup/ticker, which is e.g. a month for industry production
21:36:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: changes and half a year for subsidy offers. As a result the more important
21:36:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: messages will stay longer in the message history (if longer than 30 messages).
21:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> which causes big problems occasionally
21:37:29 <Mchl> there's thing called 'mean sea level' apparently
21:37:40 <Mchl> though calclating it is hell of a work
21:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, east germany used the russian reference point, and west germany used the dutch reference point [there's a third reference point in the mediterranean which is used by switzerland]
21:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> upon the reunification, they joined the two reference points of germany by taking the mean
21:39:41 <Mchl> I'd go for WGS explanation personally
21:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, there are attempts to synchronise the different height systems used in europe to the dutch reference point in amsterdam
21:49:16 <Rubidium> luckily enough most of Europe can't use the Dutch location grid system in the same way as in the Netherlands :)
21:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, they tried to build a bridge over the rhine between switzerland and germany, and the height systems have a difference of 27cm
21:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> they knew that when planning the bridge, but instead of substracting the height difference, they added it
21:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> so they ended up 54cm too high on the german side
21:52:04 <Rubidium> Switzerland must've been lower
21:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the sea level drops the more you go outside from the equator
21:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> because the spinning forces are higher at the equator
21:53:12 <Rubidium> but Switzerland is heavier per square km
21:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, that's a different force, glx ;)
21:53:49 <glx> right coriolis is null at the equator
21:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> the coriolis force is the one that wears down one side of the track more than the other when going north-south (and back)
21:54:50 * Rubidium wonders whether it's rotational spin of the earth around the sun has a measurable effect on the sealevel
21:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's also what causes the west wind
21:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the moon has not a 100% effect on tides
21:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> the sun also takes part in it
21:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's why the tides have different height during the moon phases
21:56:34 <dih> what happened to _icolour_def ?
21:57:19 <dih> so - what to use instead?
21:57:59 <dih> yep - was just going to say that
21:58:31 <dih> and _patches has become _patches_<section> ?
21:59:49 <dih> i do not even know in which revision it changed
22:00:01 * Rubidium wonders how hard it is to look at the log of a single file
22:00:03 <dih> Rubidium: you are for some reason being extreeeeemly helpful today!
22:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> is something he said not true?
22:01:14 <dih> i never said that it was not true
22:01:23 <dih> just said it was not helpful
22:01:29 <Rubidium> asking the question and waiting for the reply costs more time than finding out yourself
22:02:03 <dih> if you would have to look yourself, is it so hard to say that
22:02:10 <dih> and perhaps a wee bit more friendly?
22:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have to deal with questions like that every day, you invent the most creative ways to tell these people that you are not going to answer the question ;)
22:04:17 <Rubidium> I'd be delighted to answer your question, but today I am not in the mood to go type the required svn command to find out the revision the change happened in, in order to type a svn command, a different one to be precise, to find out what the actual answer to your question is.
22:04:37 <Rubidium> took me 2 minutes to write with *exactly* the same result
22:04:45 *** planetmaker|away is now known as planetmaker
22:05:18 <dih> Rubidium: i did not mean 'arselicking'! but simply 'would have to look that up myself' suffices in some cases
22:05:51 <Rubidium> that's not "friendly"
22:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> but longer than what he actually said
22:20:55 <Bjarni> you better explain yourself real good
22:20:58 <dih> that looks like a punk-sheep
22:21:40 <Bjarni> how can less then dotted 3 be a sheep?
22:22:00 <Ammler> and Rubidium, if you read the source, it IS a ini :-P
22:25:10 <Ammler> anyway I like the new structure...
22:26:30 <Ammler> those old pathfinder things could use their own group too
22:27:01 <Ammler> would be easier to filter them out
22:29:20 <dih> [00:21] <Ammler> and Rubidium, if you read the source, it IS a ini :-P <- i will not comment :-D
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22:56:08 <Bjarni> 500 Internal Server Error
22:56:08 <Bjarni> Sorry, something went wrong.
22:56:08 <Bjarni> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation. Please report this incident to customer service.
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continue to next day ⏵
